Episode 606 The filter also contained a directional coupler Part Number 6927E92, was made by Varian for the Minuteman Missile system original video about the filter: • #357 Flea Market Finds Be a Patron: / imsaiguy
Oh. What a fantastic architecture.! An analog BPF with 0.9 dB loss and rock steady construction. The PCB trace coupling with 50 ohm termination at one end and the other end for observing/ and tuning the filter at the factory as well for future maintenance adjustment if needed. And the small wires from the studs on the underside of the PCB are probably "gimmick capacitors" to handle the leakage inductance of the long trace. there. Thanks for the presentation 😊
Another nice video from a an inquisitive technical mind. I remember Varian, they used to make high-power amplifiers (HPA) for satellite earth stations, a very respected name in the satcom industry.
I am sorry, IMSAI guy, now, only now I understand correctly. Before the signal even enters into the filter section it passes through the long "U" like PCB trace; a parallel trace with a 50 ohm on one end (termination) comes out as the coupled port for the purpose of observing (like you did on the nanoVNA) and for fine tuning of the capacitors at the factory. The hollow region of the whole block is for taking the tappings out; the input and the output of the filter are let through plastic (teflon or something) insulator; so is the observation coupled port. Someone down here asked if the coupling is on the input or on the output. The sample for observation is taken out (by the PCB trace coupling) on the input of the filter even before it enters the filter section. Thanks 👍
@@IMSAIGuy oh. Now I remember. I had seen this before maybe 6 months ago, I am not sure. I had not subscribed to your channel then. In that video the BPF had measured to be 190-290 MHz on the spectrum analyser with the tracking generator. And thanks again for quoting the reference to the previous video you had done. I think now it's a complete one. I mainly subscribed to your channel to learn more about the nanoVNA and the tiny SA. I appreciate the good work you have been doing 😊
The signal is coupled even before it enters the BPF. The piston capacitors are made of high quality materials with copper, silver/ ceramic coating and of very high degree of precision. Tuned and adjusted and sealed at the factory. They're simple engineering marvels, for sure.
Thanks IMSAI Guy... Interesting..... The little cavity is to allow space for the wires to be soldered First tiny glance your coupler looks like a transformer...to me.... With all the poles in the BP filter.. Does it then have 5 poles? Surprised at the frequency beyond the filter has spurs..... So maybe it is Mr. Chebyshev...nice and flat in the passband...outside Does the rolloff steepness match a 5 pole..I think perhaps so.... Or does 7 caps and inductors constitute 3 poles...since the two caps on the front and end form the input and output...? I am glad you didn't tweak...but measured first with my future envious tool....the Nano VNA... There was probably lots of effort the test person tweaking the adjustable caps to get that nice flat passband response.. Curiosity drove me to MiniCircuits...Couplers.. Since your insertion loss in passband 0.9 dB...then I guess the coupler couples 8 dB... They listed a nice table of theoretical minimum thru mainline insertion loss in dB... Such as a 6 dB coupler will have 1.2 dB minimum loss...no active components 10 dB coupler = 0.46 dB IL 15 dB coupler = 0.14 dB IL...... And 30 dB coupler 0.004 dB IL That makes sense...for if your sucking a lot off power from the main line to your coupler...then less power comes out of the main end... So what we might have folks is a bandpass filter Fc 240 Mz...with a 8 dB ish coupler ..with a bandpass of 80 MHz wide... I did not quite hear that reader input of the program or equipment... A "Soulmate"...? It's all good... Nice construction design and I am glad the curiosity cat with IMASI Guy won out and then he showed us... So I can see how that coupled port could be fed back to level out...perhaps in like a system of AGC... As a function of power into the filter...I wonder if there in like the upper noise floor do frequencies power like at 400 MHz ever smooth out....like there is a sweet spot of like a range of millawatts in or what is the range of power....do the inductors saturate....? And Fred you can go read too... 240 MHz...militaryish UHF... Or maybe Soulmate is just part of a spectrum analyzer instrument? Thanks IMASI Guy...once Again... I am looking foward to our very wise readers feedback...and their comments.... May no one consider me a babbling pest Kind regards Fred
Very neat filter. Just out of curiosity does the insertion loss change when a load is on the coupled port, vs when it is left open? Looks like the coupled port is intended to be approximately 10dB down.
That's an interesting question. lets say it couples 20db. so it goes to the connector and nothing there.... reflects back and gets caught by the 51ohm res. ok, now plug the connector, it couples 20db and that gets taken by the 50ohm load. insertion same in both cases?
Right now I use it to make UA-cam videos. Since the capacitors are variable it can be tuned. I'm not sure it is can move to 440MHz. Maybe that is another video. I originally bought it ($1) to use the box to put other things inside.
Oh. What a fantastic architecture.! An analog BPF with 0.9 dB loss and rock steady construction. The PCB trace coupling with 50 ohm termination at one end and the other end for observing/ and tuning the filter at the factory as well for future maintenance adjustment if needed.
And the small wires from the studs on the underside of the PCB are probably "gimmick capacitors" to handle the leakage inductance of the long trace.
there.
Thanks for the presentation 😊
Another nice video from a an inquisitive technical mind. I remember Varian, they used to make high-power amplifiers (HPA) for satellite earth stations, a very respected name in the satcom industry.
Varían started silicon valley!
@@IMSAIGuy Wow! I didn't know that
Make a nice dab pass filter and thanks for the vids you have taught me quite a few things, good work.
lol looking at the coupled part without terminating the filter? Wow, just wow.
Oh, I now understand that the small wires are the ones capacitively picking up the signal.
I am sorry, IMSAI guy, now, only now I understand correctly. Before the signal even enters into the filter section it passes through the long "U" like PCB trace; a parallel trace with a 50 ohm on one end (termination) comes out as the coupled port for the purpose of observing (like you did on the nanoVNA) and for fine tuning of the capacitors at the factory.
The hollow region of the whole block is for taking the tappings out; the input and the output of the filter are let through plastic (teflon or something) insulator; so is the observation coupled port. Someone down here asked if the coupling is on the input or on the output.
The sample for observation is taken out (by the PCB trace coupling) on the input of the filter even before it enters the filter section.
Thanks 👍
the little wires are ones I had to de-solder. They all used to be connected to the feedthrus
@@IMSAIGuy Yes, I think you had not mentioned in the video. Or am I missing something here..!!
@@subramanianr7206 in my first video I said it was soldered and that is why I didn't open it last time
ua-cam.com/video/Cm9UxPkW6J0/v-deo.html
@@IMSAIGuy oh. Now I remember. I had seen this before maybe 6 months ago, I am not sure. I had not subscribed to your channel then.
In that video the BPF had measured to be 190-290 MHz on the spectrum analyser with the tracking generator.
And thanks again for quoting the reference to the previous video you had done. I think now it's a complete one.
I mainly subscribed to your channel to learn more about the nanoVNA and the tiny SA.
I appreciate the good work you have been doing 😊
@@subramanianr7206 I love the nano not so much the tiny. what do you think. do i need to give the tiny more love?
VHF filter, LC.
The PC trace is either a coupled input, or output.
Time to make use of those piston caps.
The signal is coupled even before it enters the BPF.
The piston capacitors are made of high quality materials with copper, silver/ ceramic coating and of very high degree of precision. Tuned and adjusted and sealed at the factory. They're simple engineering marvels, for sure.
Thanks IMSAI Guy...
Interesting.....
The little cavity is to allow space for the wires to be soldered
First tiny glance your coupler looks like a transformer...to me....
With all the poles in the BP filter..
Does it then have 5 poles?
Surprised at the frequency beyond the filter has spurs.....
So maybe it is Mr. Chebyshev...nice and flat in the passband...outside
Does the rolloff steepness match a 5 pole..I think perhaps so....
Or does 7 caps and inductors constitute 3 poles...since the two caps on the front and end form the input and output...?
I am glad you didn't tweak...but measured first with my future envious tool....the Nano VNA...
There was probably lots of effort the test person tweaking the adjustable caps to get that nice flat passband response..
Curiosity drove me to MiniCircuits...Couplers..
Since your insertion loss in passband 0.9 dB...then I guess the coupler couples 8 dB...
They listed a nice table of theoretical minimum thru mainline insertion loss in dB...
Such as a 6 dB coupler will have 1.2 dB minimum loss...no active components
10 dB coupler = 0.46 dB IL
15 dB coupler = 0.14 dB IL......
And 30 dB coupler 0.004 dB IL
That makes sense...for if your sucking a lot off power from the main line to your coupler...then less power comes out of the main end...
So what we might have folks is a bandpass filter Fc 240 Mz...with a 8 dB ish coupler ..with a bandpass of 80 MHz wide...
I did not quite hear that reader input of the program or equipment...
A "Soulmate"...?
It's all good...
Nice construction design and I am glad the curiosity cat with IMASI Guy won out and then he showed us...
So I can see how that coupled port could be fed back to level out...perhaps in like a system of AGC...
As a function of power into the filter...I wonder if there in like the upper noise floor do frequencies power like at 400 MHz ever smooth out....like there is a sweet spot of like a range of millawatts in or what is the range of power....do the inductors saturate....?
And Fred you can go read too...
240 MHz...militaryish UHF...
Or maybe Soulmate is just part of a spectrum analyzer instrument?
Thanks IMASI Guy...once Again...
I am looking foward to our very wise readers feedback...and their comments....
May no one consider me a babbling pest
Kind regards
Fred
Very neat filter. Just out of curiosity does the insertion loss change when a load is on the coupled port, vs when it is left open? Looks like the coupled port is intended to be approximately 10dB down.
That's an interesting question. lets say it couples 20db. so it goes to the connector and nothing there.... reflects back and gets caught by the 51ohm res. ok, now plug the connector, it couples 20db and that gets taken by the 50ohm load. insertion same in both cases?
@@IMSAIGuy Sounds about right. :-D
Interesting. What do you do with it?
Right now I use it to make UA-cam videos. Since the capacitors are variable it can be tuned. I'm not sure it is can move to 440MHz. Maybe that is another video. I originally bought it ($1) to use the box to put other things inside.