Thank you for including Azerbaijan because almost no one reacts to this, it never becomes an agenda. Throughout the whole event, while protesting against Israel, not a single negative sentence was uttered about Azerbaijan. I'm sorry, but this makes me extremely angry, I wonder why the lives of my people cannot be as valuable as others. Please, let your humanity not be selective.
I'm sorry. But it's not either or. It's a matter of awareness. And in this case it's a matter of a "democracy" supported by other democracies committing full scale ethnic cleansing and a slow, deliberate campaign of starvation and terror. Now remember that these people were themselves ethnically cleansed before in 1948 and have lived under occupation since. Conclusion: It's simply not the same to compare. But you have my sympathies and support.
I think the difference is the people are not allowed to leave Gaza, whereas there are tons of Armenian refugees all over the world, so they at least managed to get out, so their situation is not as dire as it is in Gaza. Another reason is how much Ukraine and Gaza have used social media to spread their message. I haven’t seen Armenians doing the same thing at the same scale.
funny to hear an armenian talking about someone's humanity being selective... so occupying the officially recognized territory of Azerbaijan and driving off between 800-900 thousand Azerbaijanis is fine, but when Azerbaijan restores the territorial integrity it is a crime? What a perfect demonstration of double standards from a typical armenian.
@@Emanon... I thought you were talking about us in the first half of the sentence because we also experienced the same thing at different times. Of course, this is not a competition, I'm not comparing people's pain, I just get upset when people take sides without having the information just to avoid boredom at home with popular headlines. I wish healing to everyone, every nation who has suffered injustice and to those who have died. Thank you for your support and sympathies.
Strictly it's broadcasters that enter songs, but using flags as shorthand for entries has become commonplace. This increased after 2000, first they allowed flag-waving in the audience and then even did a parade of flags.
@@joebloggs396 Euro vision contest without countries is just a musical contest. No it is exciting because we see the best amateurs of a country compete against each other. I believe they got rid of amateurs but most are still amateurs.
@@trebellait comes out in its own particular, as serious at least, ways. In the Qatar World Cup there were protests from LGBTQ communities over FIFA’s decision to hold the football competition there owing to Qatar’s reputation for having no protection at all (to say the least) of LGBTQ rights. The Olympics has also had its own well documented history of political issues en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Olympic_Games_scandals_and_controversies
One cannot separate politics from music. Music has been at the forefront of social justice and human rights movements. Obviously, there should be some rules as to what lyrics can be allowed at ESC, but to suggest ESC songs are to be 100% apolitical shows one's lack of understanding of music as an art form.
If such rules were in effect, 'Mama ŠČ!' would not have been able to participate in the show, despite being a greatly needed song. There should be freedom of expression, it doesn't matter if it's political.
@kevanmcdougallmph - my fella and I were talking about this last week and he made a brilliant point, which I agree with, that the act of representing your country in a competition is, in and of itself, inherently political. There’s so much baggage that comes inevitably with that. So I think the EBU’s aims towards an “apolitical” contest are utopian at best, and a particular fools’ errand of them to push this year.
you forgot to mention all the scandals regarding Azerbaijan's ESC voting, such as bribing voters/juries, not announcing points for Armenia (watch the videos) or turning the sound off while the Armenian song is being performed live. They literally got away with all that
Yes, there were many other examples I could have included for both countries, but there's no way to cover absolutely everything without making the video too long - I had to balance out what to include with making sure that the video was short enough to get the arguments I'm trying to make across
Butthurt armenian alert. Now tell us about the erhnic cleansing committed by armenia against 700,000 azerbaijanis and how armenia got away with it for 3 decades- until it didn't.
@@InciOrucluIt's not about being mad. Showing or censoring the Eurovision contest on TV is what makes you allowed to participate or not, literally. If Azerbaijan censored the contest by cutting the sound off when they don't like a country, they should not be allowed to come back. 🤷🏻♀️
I've been looking at how Russia has used it's powers to send messages at ESC. They started to get backlash in the 2010s, so they sent one peace song after another. 2013, 2014, 2015, 2017... Also, they started sending known names, like the Tolmachevy sisters, winners of JESC, and very famous singers like Polina Gagarina in 2015, Sergey Lazarev in 2016 and 2019, Little Big in 2020, all internal selections... They clearly WANTED to win, so they were pulling out the big guns. However in 2017 (the year Ukraine was hosting), they sent Julia Samoylova. Among these superstars, they sent this sweet girl whose dream was to see the sea and perform for a big audience, just for big bad Ukraine to ban her! It was very clear what they tried to do. They KNEW she had performed in Crimea, they knew this would happen. And how can we be so sure? Because when she came back in 2018, she didn't have a third of the production value their other acts had. In 2021, they kinda changed their strategy. Like Israel and the LGBT showoff to distract from other topics, they organized a very rushed national final on Women's day to pick a feminist song. They sang in Russian for the first time since 2012, with the grannies. And why am I saying all this? Because I'm afraid Israel is doing the same thing. Sending Noa Kirel last year was a POWER MOVE, and it paid off, just like Sergey Lazarev paid off for Russia. She was internally selected, which is unusual for Israel, they tend to have a national final format to choose the artist, even their winning artist in 2018, Netta, was selected through a national selection. 2020 was a peace song, kinda, with a very clear "let's all unite because we are equal" message. And I've read somewhere that their song this year will have Hebrew in it. They had just a few sentences or words in Hebrew in their recent songs, the last consistent Hebew verse was 10 years ago. Even when they hosted, the song had 0 Hebrew in it. I don't know if it's true, but it wouldn't surprise me. It wouldn't surprise me if they send a peace song in Hebrew. So yeah, the exploitation is real. I hope that's not the case and my predictions are wrong, tho. But giving the political climate, how can you just ignore it? It's a very complicated situation.
The reason Israel sent all these LGBTQ songs is because we are famous for having the first trans woman Dana International at eurovision so a lot of Israelis think this contest is like Drag Race and tend to vote for "gay friendly" acts. Noa Kirel was chosen after the embarrasment that Michael Ben David was, nq after 6 years in a row. Noa is the most popular singer in Israel so choosing her was to make up for 2022. The song this year is not going to be fully in Hebrew, just a few words like Noa Kirel's song in 2023 and Netta's song in 2018.
When Ukraine won in 2022. People were saying the contest has always been political and that we should just accept that fact. Now, people are saying that politics don't belong in Eurovision. Choose a freaking story and stick with it! Y'all are bunch of hypocrites!
There need to be at least some basic consistency. If Russia is banned from participating (as they should), then Israel MUST be banned as well. There's no arguing about that. But we know that they have strong lobby and the "right allies ", and also they are one of the main sponsors of this festival (moroccan oil), so a big amount of money is sucked in to western countries from them, so they will turned a blind eye for them and let them appear in this competition year after year. Hypocrisy at it best.
@@nm2022what the f? By your logic, Ukraine should be banned as well, if Israel should. Israel was attacked, so Israel is defending itself. Ukraine was attacked, so Ukraine is defending itself. So, it should be on Ukraine and Israel’s broadcasters if they want to be included at Eurovision.
@@TeuberCZ No, don't twist it insidiously, that is a false analogy. Israel terrorizes Palestinians decades already. What they are doing is horror and brutal violation of human rights. They should be banned permanently and forbidden to participate in any of international events. Especially anything that has to do with Europe. Zero tolerance towards them.
I feel like you should have also highlighted that Russia was ONLY banned when nine countries refused to participate in 2022 if it stayed. It was not banned after bombing Chechnya (exactly like Gaza, but with added r@pe), or after invading Georgia in 2008, or after invading Ukraine in 2014. So EBU is pretty consistent about allowing dictators to play up their soft power at Eurovision! Now, I agree with you that they shouldn’t, but they are actually being very consistent(ly bad).
Eurovision was created with the backdrop of WWII having just ended less than a decade prior. The contest has continued to grow and become a way that different nations, cultures, and peoples are united through music. In addition to being united by music, we are also united against genocide and ethnic cleansing. Eurovision is not a space for broadcasters who spread propaganda in efforts to deny or diminish their nation's genocide/ethnic cleansing of other peoples.
When Israel declared independence it offered citizenship to all the Arabs in its territory. Of the 160,000 that accepted and became citizens with full equal rights, they are now 2 million. Similarly, the Palestinian population in the West Bank and Gaza (both with Arabs whom are NOT ISRAELI CITIZENS) have grown massively over the past 75 years. How could anyone argue genocide or ethnic cleansing when the numbers have only increased?
@@VeredRose Because contrary to popular belief, ethnic cleansing does not exclusively mean killing people, but also includes forced displacement. The population increase that you're describing is not simply birth rates. It's because Palestinians (who understandably do not want to identify themselves as Israelis) have been pushed into the Gaza Strip and the West Bank by Israel.
The complete irony of the EBU expelling Russia for bringing the 'contest into disrepute' when Israel and Azerbaijan are doing a good job at it today lol
I think it's because Israel and Azerbaijan aren't even in Europe and european locals don't really feel the consequences of these wars that much as they do of invasion of Ukraine. Perhaps Europe feels like Russia is a threat to them, but Azerbaijan and Israel isn't. And it's hard to relate to people who are culturally different than you are. With Ukraine we had videos of start-ups there showing their promotional videos shot in their offices before invasion and the aftermath where that same office space is in shambles. Europeans relate to that, Ukraine is european culturally while Palestine simply didn't get a chance to become relatable since Israel has been relentless with it's cruelty ever since Israel was established. And it's messed up. Human psychology is messed up.
I think that in the case of Israel, the difference between Russia and Israel is that Russia started the war with Ukraine and was the aggressor, and Israel was dragged into a war. Not including Israel because it was attacked by Hamas will be like not including Ukraine because it was attacked by Russia. Regarding the case with Azarbijan, I am not informed on the subject so I won't comment on that.
@@RigooshI agree to your point, but I wouldn't compare Israel and Ukraine. Israel has taken the active position in the war and attacks civilian targets, Ukraine is fighting a defence war for their own land. All in all, it's much more clear that the Ukrainian land belongs to Ukraine, and it's much more controversial whether or not the Israeli actions in Gaza are justified.
@@Jatzki If you're not informed on the war in Gaza, which said Israel was dragged to no need to throw ignorant comments. Hamas - Multi billionaire terrorist organizations has made decades of effort to embed itself as one of the same "civilian targets". The same "uninvolved civilians" who crossed into the Jewish villages slaughtered, burned, and kidnapped. The same uninvolved civilians who there are unfolding reports that whom are keeping the hostages themselves. We are dealing with indoctrinated population no worse than the Nazis. Israel is the only country criticised for defending itself. The bigotry never ends, whenever it has to do with a Jew everyone go mute, deaf, and blind 🙈🙉🙊.
i am currently writing a research paper on nation branding in eurovision and honestly, the knowledge i have gained through this research is something every eurofan should posses. for that reason i am so thankful for this video. people need to be informed.
@@rachyvm i will still need a little while to finish it but in the meantime i can recommend you this really good video essay here on youtube called “the queer politics of eurovision” (it also talks about israel and azerbaijan)
Belarus was actually able to change their song, but yet again went with one that literally broke the same rules as they broke before. Georgia withdrew after they were disqualified in 2009 too. Israel should not have been allowed to compete this year with a song that broke the rules that badly. Free Palestine and may netanyahu's government continue crumbling.
Dont forget how in 2012, because Azerbaijan didnt have a stadium to host the contest in, they forcefully evicted and bulldozed an entire neighborhood to build one
The Baku crystal hall was built on the sea shore. No neighbourhoods were situated in that place. Places that were demolished had nothing to do with the eurovision. Imagine old and ugly blocks in the center of the city. Of course they will be sooner or later demolished for a something new. And actually people who lived there got a compensation, so they were able to buy something in a newly built buildings.
I am very suspicious of the 300+ votes Israel got from the public. Its an OK song. But that is it. Its not exceptional, it had no hype, the bookies hardly rated it, it was not being used in clubs...it simply does not warrant 300 votes. The Italian broadcaster made a mistake on the preliminary and Israel had 39% of the votes from the public with songs as popular as Europapa getting 12% and most getting a few percent only. This is suspicious. Israel's song does not deserve 39% of the public vote
People posted online about having several credit cards in different countries, therefore they'd have an extra 20 (or however many) votes and used all their votes on israel. Pro-Israel people who have never interacted with the contest before and even dislike it, still voted for israel this one year
It was consistenly in the top 3 in most betting markets. The people who claimed not to like it said it was the worst. Clearly I trust the preliminary results over people with an admitted bias who would have voted it last place even if it had been the best song in decades.
I prefer the original song October rain. When you censor a song it’ll get more politically motivated votes. Even though the original was better it probably wouldn’t have gotten as many votes if it wasn’t censored.
Also, Russia was banned because a lot of countries said they would boycott the contest if Russia participated. But if no country had manifested themselves, do you think the EBU would've banned Russia? This is something we will never know
Thank you for covering this. It’s important we talk about this and the use of Eurovision for political and propaganda purposes. It’s supposed to be about peace and progress and the inclusion of Israel this years says that the EBU endorses what Israel is doing in Gaza. It’s pretty outrageous and puts the reason for the contest existing in doubt.
Eurovision 2012 in Baku and Eurovision 2019 in Tel Aviv have one thing in common other than the political controversies: that is Finland being the only Nordic country to get eliminated in the semi-finals, with the other 4 Nordics progressing to the final.
Finland had an NF that was like communism, a failed experiment with songs selected by authoritarian juries. Later, UMK had its own "reform and opening-up", and Finland has become an emerging Eurovision powerhouse with Blind Channel and Käärijä, who could even compete with Loreen.
The question about israel isnt even a new question because of recent events. its been a question for YEARS and came up again when action was taken against russia..
Tbf, in 2012 it was standard for postcards to not include artists in them, in fact, at that time, 2003 was the last time artists had appeared in the postcard.
Another great analysis. I often think about the Uk through the 70s to 90s and how they were involved in world conflicts, including Ireland. Should people have boycotted in these years?
I really appreciate your honest acknowledgment of your privilege and how you make it clear that you're just discussing eurovision without getting into all of the history behind it. Your honesty is really refreshing and admirable
just commenting to boost the algorithm, great video, very eloquently put + another counter argument for the "don't politicize the contest" crowd: by kicking out Belarus but not Israel who, in their national final showed a disturbing propaganda song using children, the EBU is unequivocally taking a political stance: *it's okay when The West's Friend does it, it's bad when one of those eastern countries does*. so for whoever "against politics" the damage is done already. Congratulations EBU, the contest has gone into disrepute.
First you need to say the facts straight. Israel didn't put any controversial song in the national final because the national final didn't even happen when I'm writing this. The broadcaster didn't break any rules anyway as the selection is done by a commercial channel. The mood during the first stage was like that, possibly from the fact that 3 of the contestants that were supposed to participate in the first stage were murdered during the festival massacre at the first day of the war and the fact that the public couldn't participate due to missile attacks
This isn't entirely true, the song you're referring to wasn't broadcast in the NF, but instead just on the broadcaster, still not great but the EBU really won't care unless its like torture broadcast on television or like blatant rigging in an NF
As been written by others, what you described is misleading. Also, did you by any case watch the Icelandic NF?😂 Or it goes like "when it fits my agenda I'm cool with it"?
@@noamyoeli700What happened in the Icelandic NF was a man of Palestinian descent participate with a song titled "Wild West". Tell me what about that is political?
I think a lot of us think that too, even those of us from the UK. We literally waged war under false pretences which our governments knew were false (the weapons of mass destruction did not exist in the form we were told they did) and used a horrific terrorist attack as the basis for it, tricking millions of people into deep patriotic defence of their countries when it was all about oil and control. Of course we should have been removed from the contest because of it, but for the same reasons as Israel now, no country and no broadcaster would’ve called for it. People say we suffered in our rankings because of it instead, but I think if people boycotted voting for us it barely made an impact compared to just the sheer fact that we were sending awful music.
@@MintyDragonfly уважаемый житель Великобритании. Хочу вас расстроить. Ни одна страна в мире, подчеркиваю, ни одна не идеальна. У всех свои чёрные и белые страницы в истории. Возникает только вопрос, а с каких то это мировая общественность стала озабоченной войнами только сейчас? Может пора перестать лицемерить и принимать решения против всех или вообще не принимать?
@@сумпат Our hypocrisy makes me sick in the stomach. We lecture the whole world about human rights but our countries in the West are the biggest offenders.
@@сумпатни одна страна мира не идеальна, но также далеко не каждая совершает геноцид. если кого-то и нужно исключать, так это израиль. другие страны-участницы не находится под судом в гааге
Gabe. Thank you so much for your brave video. The elephant(s) in the room need to be addressed. I don't see how an Israeli entry this year will do anything other than "bring the contest into disrepute". I dread the thought of reactions at pre-parties and press conferences for an artist who will have to face very difficult questions..
I won't say I don't agree on some of the points you're making, but I can see some other elephants in the room here. And of course, Eurovision has always been political, and I highly appreciate how you are are trying to have a discussion in a respectful manner. I find the postcard argument a bit weak to be honest, the UK used postcards without any of the participants in 1998, and I don't remember how anyone had a problem with that. They were simply well produced postcards. And I also think it's hard to have a balanced debate without mentioning the terrorist attacks. I know that won't make arguing any easier, but it also is pivotal in the debate, as it clearly sets it apart from the exclusion of Russia and Belarus in 2022, that did not have this component in it. Not mentioning Hamas is also a political choice. But the thing that has been on my mind a lot, is that we only talk about Belarus, Russia, Azerbaijan and Israel, all on the borders of the EBU area. And we have never talk about any country in the coalition of the Afhan invasion in relation to Eurovision. Those countries were in a 20 year war, with more loss of innocent lives than now in Gaza. Do we have different standards when it comes to the right to defend our freedom, killing as many as we like? Why has no one every raised any objection in relation to them participating in ESC? Again, these are just questions that sit in my mind. Because when speaking about morals and ethics, we should not only look at others, but also ourselves. And we're not exactly the nice guys responding to terrorist attacks ourselves, nor do any of the individuals who voted for their governments during that time feel responsible for this war. Anyway, that's my two cents. In no way intended to offend you, but just raising some questions that are troubling me right now. Keep up the good work!
Israel was insanely exploitative and had a mediocre song. Azerbaijan didn’t do almost anything, and the song was ok. Ukraine did nothing and put on an insane banger.
I'm very impressed. While you were clearly passionate about how you felt, you were totally professional and I didn't feel like you were trying to force your own opinions on us. Further to your point about the showing of disputed territories in the postcards, weren't there some comments at the time about the triangles in the star of the 2019 logo looking like the shape of Israel (if it included Gaza & West Bank)?
i agree on everything Gabe, but i always wonder why no one talks about Azerbaijan's big brother, Turkey. Hasn't Turkey been doing exactly the same, promoting an image to the rest of Europe that they are kind of Westernized, hiding the dark truth? I mean, apart from the obvious (Invading Cyprus and still holding 37% of its territory which is one of the most militarized zones in the world), the LGBTI+ rights are basically non existing, freedom of press is at its lowest level since Erdogan came in power with countless assassinations of journalists and imprisonment of opposition leaders, international human rights organizations keep criticizing them for basic human rights violations, UN accused them of war crimes and i could go on until next year. Yet, when the discussion regarding whether should Turkey return to the contest rises up, everybody seems to forget all their sensitivities regarding lgbti, press and generally human rights. And just to clarify what many will fail to understand, all i say does not go for the people of Turkey, the citizens. We are talking about state broadcasters and government policies here.
as a t*rk, thank you for this comment. a country this terrible has no place in eurovision. besides, we wouldn't even be good if we rejoined. our music scene is terrible. people seem to have a weird nostalgia for us but i really don't know why. but luckily, until a miracle happens and e*****n finally leaves, there's no chance of t*rkey rejoining anyway
Your point 17:17 is inaccurate - the image is NOT from the Israeli national final, it is actually from the audition stage. I also think it's quite obvious that a country in war would promote its soldiers, with or without Eurovision.
Also, in Israel military service is mandatory because of it's existential threat. Hence, everyone at the age of 18 join the army, so letting a soldier sing at the Israeli "x factor" = letting an 18-21 adult sing. That's no promotion of war or anything like that, that's literally just the majority of the Israelis at some point throughout their lives. If you'll walk on the street in Israel you'll notice people wearing uniform all over the place, since - again, everyone between the ages of 18-21 are doing service and are being required to wear the uniforms for most of the time during weekdays.
The EBU is funded by public broadcasters, this includes broadcasters who abuse the EBU. The strange thing in this is that the big 5 countries (Germany, Spain, UK, Italy, France) are the biggest payers within the EBU for the Eurovision, and also partly responsible for the bad policies within the EBU.
Really what's the promblem with Azerbaijan and Israel participating in the constest? In the 60s Portugal and Spain were allowed to join the ESC despite both countries being under dictatorial regimes at the time, worse yet when Portugal joined in 1964 they were already in the third year of war with their african colonies (after all Portugal wasnthe only European nation to outright refuse to grant independece to their african colonies) and the thing wouldn't change until 1974 (Portugal) and 1975 (Spain) and clearly the EBU turned on a blantly blind to what was happening back then, so why would it be different this time?
A fantastic video. Thank you for making it. I have been wondering what the situation will be like in Malmo (there are Palestinians living there), and what will it be like for the artist to perform there (not wishing any artist to be subjected to abuse, but it can't be easy)?
@@EzraHavilandHow is Israel not an aggressor in the, for lack of better words, ongoing situation? It has overreached from simply trying to defend itself to actively, and perhaps intentionally, killing civilians.
You cannot compare Azerbaijan’s situation with Israel. Karabakh is internationally recognised part of Azerbaijan. That land was illegally occupied by Armenians on the grounds that Armenians were being ethnically cleansing. Yet Armenians themselves ethnically cleansed azerbaijanis from Armenia long before. There is not a single azerbaijani left in Armenia. But in Baku alone there are 30000 armenians and even their own church. I have armenian neighbour in Baku. It is just that Armenia had good marketing. My point is not making Armenia guilty solely. Azerbaijan could have done better in terms of armenians in Karabakh. So, if there is an issue, most of the time both are guilty and victim.
There were only about 100 ethnic Armenians living in Baku as of 2009. Granted this info is outdated, unfortunately I wasn't able to find a more recent census. However, given everything that went down between Armenia and Azerbaijan ever since, plus the systemic anti-Armenianism in azerbaijani society and politics, I highly doubt tens of thousands of Armenians would have moved to Baku since 2009. Furthermore, the Karabakh/Nagorno-Karabakh/Artsakh region had a majority Armenian population for thousands of years until it was ethnically cleansed in September of last year, and they had declared independence with respect to their right for self-determination. Stalin never should have handed that region to Azerbaijan SSR in the first place, he only did it to sow division between Armenians and Azerbaijanis.
@@blastdamageStalin did not transfer Karabakh to Azerbaijan, find documents confirming this statement. The document signed by Stalin in 1936 clearly states that Karabakh should be LEFT as part of Azerbaijan
Thank you so much for this video, it is so important to address this issue, it’s so sickening seeing commentaries on esc that act as if nothing is happening…
I watched Dana International singing in Hebrew and winning the ESC. She was named as being instrumental in bringing LBTQi to the contest. Everyone applauded her, no one complained about Isreal then and the war was going on. It was ok in 1998 to vote for Israel then but not now? Its hypocritical
It's two entirely different eras and generations, the internet wasn't as widely spread and you couldnt access news from different sources as easily as today. Back then no one cared, today's generation cares. It's ridiculous to compare 1998 to 2024
Thank you so much for this. The silence around this is deafening. We need to do better, Eurovision was created for us doing better. Eurovision should bring countries together for peace, not speaking up.
If a dictatorship like Azerbaijan participates in a contest about freedom, peace and diversity, is this not enough to bring the contest into disrepute?
@@isaibrahimov3276 Just because Joseph Stalin gave parts of Armenia to its neighbouring country it does not mean that it belongs to that country. He was a dictator.
@@ilanfisfisa Artsakh was in the heart of the Armenian Empire for hundreds of years. After the genocide it was tanken away from the Armenians. Azerbaijan exists only since 1918 and is much younger than the region itself.
@@lilli171The state of Azerbaijan itself has existed since 1918, but this does not mean that the Azerbaijanis did not have other states in history. The Azerbaijanis have had many states throughout their history, for example, the Eldigizids , Atabeki, Ak koyunlu, Kara koyunlu, Safavid Empire, Qajar Empire, Azerbaijani Khanates, etc. And in many of them, Karabakh, like the whole of Armenia, was part of them.
on a somewhat related note - it's also incredibly demotivating seeing people constantly devalue armenian culture and say its "azeri culture" as another way of spreading propaganda online and some people not aware of the current political situation between the two taking that false information in and believing it
LOL! I loved your flex on whose in Europe. I'm from Australia, and every year during Eurovision I put on my Eurovision playlist at work so everyone has to listen, and every year they ask me why we are in Eurovision! 🤣😂🤣😂🤣 I'm the only one who brings my speaker and they rely on me for music, so they have to listen to my music!! (I take their requests and make them specific playlists they love, but Eurovision week is for me!!)
I live in Australia and it's so tiresome getting the "I didn't know Australia was in Europe" "we shouldn't even be in the contest we aren't in Europe" I just show the EBU map to them too because I don't have the energy to talk about them.
@@erinnadia0409 Australia is as much a part of the EBU as the USA is. Both are associates. So, you shouldn't be in the contest and weren't up until 2015.
Actually Karabakh was not entirely occupied, a large part of it was in Azerbaijan's jurisdiction. So the postcards didn't show any disputed territory as far as I'm aware.
I think especially with the Israeli-Palestine conflict it's hard to really find a stand, where all other participating countries could pick a side. While I see how pro-Palestine the Scandinavian countries are, other countries like my country Germany are especially declared pro-Israel and would probably boycott the ESC if Israel where to be excluded.
@@_blank-_ They've learned their lessons from the past and nowadays know to recognize hidden-motives within a convincing propaganda which aims to normalize what you described, but to the other side of the conflict.
Thank you Gabe for making this video. It's an extremely sensitive and divisive subject that because of the magnitude of suffering caused to civilians in these conflicts needs to be addressed. Even though it triggers the worst reactions in people on either side. But like you said, Eurovision doesn't exist in a vacuum. When people and nations and their many interests converge on this global platform that is Eurovision, leaning simply on the "it's about the music, not politics" claim is simply sticking your head in the sand. Thank you for not doing that and for including the resources. Stay awesome! Much Love 🤍💙🤍
Seems that you've done some research before filming this video. But there is a fundamental mistake in your logic. Qarabagh (Karabakh) IS not an internationally disputed territory. It is an internationally recognized part of Azerbaijan. Recognized by UN and all countries in the world aside from Armenia. Do you understand the difference now? I am sick and tired of these double standards, when people support the fight of Ukraine for their land, or Georgia (back in 2008) - both being absolutely legitimate and right. But at the same time calling the part of Azerbaijan which was occupied by separatists (supported by Armenian economy, politics and army for 26 years straight) different things like "disputed territory" and asking why Azerbaijan presented it on its postcard. Why not? It is the territory of Azerbaijan. Point. Whatever country you come from, I can guarantee that it too recognizes Karabakh as a territory of Azerbaijan. So when you are talking about all this, why don't you mention the 800.000 Azerbaijanis driven off that territory by the Armenians in the 90s? Don't lives of the Azerbaijani refugees and IDP's count at all? What kind of selective "justice" is this?
Interesting video and I appreciate the points you made and researched. The politics are obvious...Zelenskyy wanting to speak at the event last year, Ukrainian government officials apologizing to Poland and Lithuania for not giving their countries points in 2022, and Macron getting involved when Maneskin was incorrectly accused of using drugs. I do want to point out one piece you said that bothered me. While it is fair to question the concept of "pinkwashing" with Israel, your description of Israel presenting itself as progressive as compared to its "less progressive" neighbours bothered me. I am not sure of your orientation but we should never diminish the experience of our brothers and sisters in these countries. "Less progressive" in regards to LGBTQIA+ rights should never be used in a sentence to describe Syria, Egypt, Lebanon, etc. "Repressive" or "Regressive" would have been more accurate terms. Let's have truthful and honest conversations across the board. As I said, good video and I appreciated the insights. I just had to raise this one point which bothered me. Peace.
Thank you for raising this and appreciate your point. I agree I should have used stronger language like what you indicated and I’m sorry for not doing that 🙏
What a great post. I'm watching this instead of the actual contest! Quite aside from actual wars/military conflicts etc. on the less distressing level there's also the voting traditions of e.g. Greece giving 12 points to Cyprus and none to Turkey, and Turkey giving 12 to Azerbaijan and (particularly outrageously) none to Armenia. Also political. And all pretty sad.
This is wrong a wrong information. Turkey always voted for Armenia, 2006 10 points, 2007 12 points and the rest of the years between 6 to 8 points for every year that both countries competed.
Thank you so much for this video. A really good analysis. The only thing I wish you mentioned also is the Azerbaijani entry in 2020 going "whether Straight or Gay or in between" while being the worst country in all Eurovision for gay people
@@SwieczkaNiweaniewierzeDarek I don't think that was criticism of the artist (of course there are gay-supporting people in Azerbaijan) but that the song was chosen to represent the country. Depending on the approach, that could be seen as something done to spite the government, or it could be seen as a move by the government to make them seem more progressive than they are. This difference in potential perspective is the exact kind of political ploy that makes these things controversial.
First of all, thank you for the effort. Especially regarding Israel you are 100% spot on. However, what you didn't mention is that regarding international law, it was always supported by the UN that Karabakh is an integral part of Azerbaijan. You should have researches that part a bit better, because it makes you seem very biased. And armenian seperarists in Karabakh and other parts of Azerbaijan are the main culprit in the conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan.
Very odd that Croatias' song was allowed last year if they're not allowed to be political. Seems like they only make a stance against something if it's in their favour
Thank you for talking about this situation so frankly, it must not be easy. I really hope other content creators take part in this conversation too. Being silent is a choice and an action.
When you spend all day looking at the ponderings of armchair journalists and people willing to exploit these tragedies on social media, it’s so refreshing to see someone has taken the time to talk about some real issues with Eurovision in a mature and objective manner. We’re so lucky to have Gabe and co. to cover the show we love - brilliant work! I’ll definitely be using these sources to educate myself throughout the season 👏👏👏👏
I want to begin by saying this was a good video, and onw of the better ones ive seen from ESC channels on this topic. I think however there is a difference in how Israel and Azerbaijan are treating this contest. Israeli participations, as all to some extent, have been used for political purposes. But Israel is not this one cohearent governmental narrative you see with how Azerbaijan treats Eurovision. We have had arab israeli participants, Palestinian flags from the stage. Madonna made a political statment for peace between Israel and Palestine. Israel, beacuse it still is a pluralistic democracy (lets see if Bibi changes that). I think its difficult to say that Israel are exploiting this contest, Politics just happens to enter there (even more because Israel always since its creation has remained politicaly controversial). LGBT is generally accepted in Israeli society, but ofcourse there are people in Israel very upset by that fact (incuding political leaders). So I think Israels participation also are being used by mulitple parties for domestic politics (nothing unique there again) With Azerbaijan, you have a broadcaster with some very questionable connections to its government, a nation clearly participating with the goal of prototing the country. The azeri artist are more controlled in what they can do. That country is more EXPLOITING the contest. I will be political whatever the EBU does. No one cant deny that everything involving multiple countries will be political. But lets say they decided to ban Israel or any other country, that would also be a very political decision (There exisits stong support for Israel in most countries as well as and those would not like to see their broadcaster boycott). If they started to say anything than that it is apolitical, that would have some very weird consequenses, and we would see even more attempts to use the contest in direct politics matters (promoting specific political parties etc.). Ive seen some good youtube videos explaining why but events like Eurovision and the Olympics must be officially non-political to work. Sorry for this Essay
You completely forgot about Russia getting kicked out. If Europe can't take a stand against genocide, it shows we have no values or respect for human life. BTW, your essay sucks.
A "pluralistic democracy" where half of the people under this regime (Palestinians under Israeli occupation in the West Bank and Gaza) have no say on public affairs, ON THEIR OWN LAND. When Hatari showed the Palestinian flag, they were booed, removed from the premises and the Icelandic broadcaster was fined.
Thank you for including Azerbaijan because almost no one reacts to this, it never becomes an agenda. Throughout the whole event, while protesting against Israel, not a single negative sentence was uttered about Azerbaijan. I'm sorry, but this makes me extremely angry, I wonder why the lives of my people cannot be as valuable as others. Please, let your humanity not be selective.
Cry😂😂
I'm sorry.
But it's not either or. It's a matter of awareness.
And in this case it's a matter of a "democracy" supported by other democracies committing full scale ethnic cleansing and a slow, deliberate campaign of starvation and terror.
Now remember that these people were themselves ethnically cleansed before in 1948 and have lived under occupation since.
Conclusion: It's simply not the same to compare. But you have my sympathies and support.
I think the difference is the people are not allowed to leave Gaza, whereas there are tons of Armenian refugees all over the world, so they at least managed to get out, so their situation is not as dire as it is in Gaza.
Another reason is how much Ukraine and Gaza have used social media to spread their message. I haven’t seen Armenians doing the same thing at the same scale.
funny to hear an armenian talking about someone's humanity being selective... so occupying the officially recognized territory of Azerbaijan and driving off between 800-900 thousand Azerbaijanis is fine, but when Azerbaijan restores the territorial integrity it is a crime? What a perfect demonstration of double standards from a typical armenian.
@@Emanon... I thought you were talking about us in the first half of the sentence because we also experienced the same thing at different times. Of course, this is not a competition, I'm not comparing people's pain, I just get upset when people take sides without having the information just to avoid boredom at home with popular headlines. I wish healing to everyone, every nation who has suffered injustice and to those who have died. Thank you for your support and sympathies.
When you include countries as contestants, politics will tie to it.
Yes
Strictly it's broadcasters that enter songs, but using flags as shorthand for entries has become commonplace. This increased after 2000, first they allowed flag-waving in the audience and then even did a parade of flags.
@@joebloggs396 Euro vision contest without countries is just a musical contest. No it is exciting because we see the best amateurs of a country compete against each other.
I believe they got rid of amateurs but most are still amateurs.
So, where is the "political" part in olympics or football world cup?
@@trebellait comes out in its own particular, as serious at least, ways. In the Qatar World Cup there were protests from LGBTQ communities over FIFA’s decision to hold the football competition there owing to Qatar’s reputation for having no protection at all (to say the least) of LGBTQ rights. The Olympics has also had its own well documented history of political issues en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Olympic_Games_scandals_and_controversies
One cannot separate politics from music. Music has been at the forefront of social justice and human rights movements. Obviously, there should be some rules as to what lyrics can be allowed at ESC, but to suggest ESC songs are to be 100% apolitical shows one's lack of understanding of music as an art form.
I’ll take sophistry for 100
@@thesmogo I'm not misleading anyone with what I said.
If such rules were in effect, 'Mama ŠČ!' would not have been able to participate in the show, despite being a greatly needed song. There should be freedom of expression, it doesn't matter if it's political.
Most songs are not political. Some broadcasters have never sent political songs even when they could have, I'd include the BBC.
@kevanmcdougallmph - my fella and I were talking about this last week and he made a brilliant point, which I agree with, that the act of representing your country in a competition is, in and of itself, inherently political. There’s so much baggage that comes inevitably with that. So I think the EBU’s aims towards an “apolitical” contest are utopian at best, and a particular fools’ errand of them to push this year.
you forgot to mention all the scandals regarding Azerbaijan's ESC voting, such as bribing voters/juries, not announcing points for Armenia (watch the videos) or turning the sound off while the Armenian song is being performed live. They literally got away with all that
Yes, there were many other examples I could have included for both countries, but there's no way to cover absolutely everything without making the video too long - I had to balance out what to include with making sure that the video was short enough to get the arguments I'm trying to make across
The Armenian jury do the same, they all vote Azerbaijan last every year
Stay mad?
Butthurt armenian alert. Now tell us about the erhnic cleansing committed by armenia against 700,000 azerbaijanis and how armenia got away with it for 3 decades- until it didn't.
@@InciOrucluIt's not about being mad. Showing or censoring the Eurovision contest on TV is what makes you allowed to participate or not, literally. If Azerbaijan censored the contest by cutting the sound off when they don't like a country, they should not be allowed to come back. 🤷🏻♀️
Belarus was kicked from the contest for the song, but they were also kicked from the EBU for breaking different rules.
Israeli broadcaster has done worse than the Belarusian Broadcaster yet the former remains.
Yes and Russia still participated that year when they were banned.
Not in 2923. Twisting the truth a bit there guys. For fuck sake.
I've been looking at how Russia has used it's powers to send messages at ESC.
They started to get backlash in the 2010s, so they sent one peace song after another. 2013, 2014, 2015, 2017...
Also, they started sending known names, like the Tolmachevy sisters, winners of JESC, and very famous singers like Polina Gagarina in 2015, Sergey Lazarev in 2016 and 2019, Little Big in 2020, all internal selections... They clearly WANTED to win, so they were pulling out the big guns.
However in 2017 (the year Ukraine was hosting), they sent Julia Samoylova. Among these superstars, they sent this sweet girl whose dream was to see the sea and perform for a big audience, just for big bad Ukraine to ban her!
It was very clear what they tried to do. They KNEW she had performed in Crimea, they knew this would happen. And how can we be so sure? Because when she came back in 2018, she didn't have a third of the production value their other acts had.
In 2021, they kinda changed their strategy. Like Israel and the LGBT showoff to distract from other topics, they organized a very rushed national final on Women's day to pick a feminist song. They sang in Russian for the first time since 2012, with the grannies.
And why am I saying all this? Because I'm afraid Israel is doing the same thing. Sending Noa Kirel last year was a POWER MOVE, and it paid off, just like Sergey Lazarev paid off for Russia. She was internally selected, which is unusual for Israel, they tend to have a national final format to choose the artist, even their winning artist in 2018, Netta, was selected through a national selection. 2020 was a peace song, kinda, with a very clear "let's all unite because we are equal" message. And I've read somewhere that their song this year will have Hebrew in it. They had just a few sentences or words in Hebrew in their recent songs, the last consistent Hebew verse was 10 years ago. Even when they hosted, the song had 0 Hebrew in it. I don't know if it's true, but it wouldn't surprise me. It wouldn't surprise me if they send a peace song in Hebrew.
So yeah, the exploitation is real. I hope that's not the case and my predictions are wrong, tho. But giving the political climate, how can you just ignore it? It's a very complicated situation.
Buranovskiye Babushki sang in Udmurt, not Russian
The reason Israel sent all these LGBTQ songs is because we are famous for having the first trans woman Dana International at eurovision so a lot of Israelis think this contest is like Drag Race and tend to vote for "gay friendly" acts. Noa Kirel was chosen after the embarrasment that Michael Ben David was, nq after 6 years in a row. Noa is the most popular singer in Israel so choosing her was to make up for 2022. The song this year is not going to be fully in Hebrew, just a few words like Noa Kirel's song in 2023 and Netta's song in 2018.
@@yaelmeyer348 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮
So as it turns out Israel is submitting a song titled "October Rain" and I'm beyond disgusted!!
If that's true, I don't think the EBU let that slide
When Ukraine won in 2022. People were saying the contest has always been political and that we should just accept that fact. Now, people are saying that politics don't belong in Eurovision.
Choose a freaking story and stick with it! Y'all are bunch of hypocrites!
There need to be at least some basic consistency. If Russia is banned from participating (as they should), then Israel MUST be banned as well. There's no arguing about that. But we know that they have strong lobby and the "right allies ", and also they are one of the main sponsors of this festival (moroccan oil), so a big amount of money is sucked in to western countries from them, so they will turned a blind eye for them and let them appear in this competition year after year. Hypocrisy at it best.
@@nm2022what the f? By your logic, Ukraine should be banned as well, if Israel should. Israel was attacked, so Israel is defending itself. Ukraine was attacked, so Ukraine is defending itself. So, it should be on Ukraine and Israel’s broadcasters if they want to be included at Eurovision.
@@TeuberCZ No, don't twist it insidiously, that is a false analogy. Israel terrorizes Palestinians decades already. What they are doing is horror and brutal violation of human rights. They should be banned permanently and forbidden to participate in any of international events. Especially anything that has to do with Europe. Zero tolerance towards them.
@@TeuberCZchild murder isnt self defense
@@TeuberCZgenocide and stealing land from people isn't self defense you absolute clown
I feel like you should have also highlighted that Russia was ONLY banned when nine countries refused to participate in 2022 if it stayed. It was not banned after bombing Chechnya (exactly like Gaza, but with added r@pe), or after invading Georgia in 2008, or after invading Ukraine in 2014. So EBU is pretty consistent about allowing dictators to play up their soft power at Eurovision! Now, I agree with you that they shouldn’t, but they are actually being very consistent(ly bad).
Eurovision was created with the backdrop of WWII having just ended less than a decade prior. The contest has continued to grow and become a way that different nations, cultures, and peoples are united through music. In addition to being united by music, we are also united against genocide and ethnic cleansing. Eurovision is not a space for broadcasters who spread propaganda in efforts to deny or diminish their nation's genocide/ethnic cleansing of other peoples.
Israel is openly using Eurovision to promote its military forces and I can't understand how that is supposed to be apolitical.
@@laurajones2307yes it was 100% created to test simulcasting technology
When Israel declared independence it offered citizenship to all the Arabs in its territory. Of the 160,000 that accepted and became citizens with full equal rights, they are now 2 million. Similarly, the Palestinian population in the West Bank and Gaza (both with Arabs whom are NOT ISRAELI CITIZENS) have grown massively over the past 75 years. How could anyone argue genocide or ethnic cleansing when the numbers have only increased?
@@VeredRose we're very well educated on the history of Palestine. Please stop with the revisionist history.
@@VeredRose Because contrary to popular belief, ethnic cleansing does not exclusively mean killing people, but also includes forced displacement. The population increase that you're describing is not simply birth rates. It's because Palestinians (who understandably do not want to identify themselves as Israelis) have been pushed into the Gaza Strip and the West Bank by Israel.
The complete irony of the EBU expelling Russia for bringing the 'contest into disrepute' when Israel and Azerbaijan are doing a good job at it today lol
I think it's because Israel and Azerbaijan aren't even in Europe and european locals don't really feel the consequences of these wars that much as they do of invasion of Ukraine. Perhaps Europe feels like Russia is a threat to them, but Azerbaijan and Israel isn't. And it's hard to relate to people who are culturally different than you are. With Ukraine we had videos of start-ups there showing their promotional videos shot in their offices before invasion and the aftermath where that same office space is in shambles. Europeans relate to that, Ukraine is european culturally while Palestine simply didn't get a chance to become relatable since Israel has been relentless with it's cruelty ever since Israel was established. And it's messed up. Human psychology is messed up.
I think that in the case of Israel, the difference between Russia and Israel is that Russia started the war with Ukraine and was the aggressor, and Israel was dragged into a war. Not including Israel because it was attacked by Hamas will be like not including Ukraine because it was attacked by Russia. Regarding the case with Azarbijan, I am not informed on the subject so I won't comment on that.
@@RigooshI agree to your point, but I wouldn't compare Israel and Ukraine. Israel has taken the active position in the war and attacks civilian targets, Ukraine is fighting a defence war for their own land. All in all, it's much more clear that the Ukrainian land belongs to Ukraine, and it's much more controversial whether or not the Israeli actions in Gaza are justified.
Unlike Russia or Azerbaijan, Israel is a defending party in a war that started with a genocide in its territory.
@@Jatzki If you're not informed on the war in Gaza, which said Israel was dragged to no need to throw ignorant comments. Hamas - Multi billionaire terrorist organizations has made decades of effort to embed itself as one of the same "civilian targets". The same "uninvolved civilians" who crossed into the Jewish villages slaughtered, burned, and kidnapped. The same uninvolved civilians who there are unfolding reports that whom are keeping the hostages themselves. We are dealing with indoctrinated population no worse than the Nazis.
Israel is the only country criticised for defending itself. The bigotry never ends, whenever it has to do with a Jew everyone go mute, deaf, and blind 🙈🙉🙊.
I commend you for your honesty. Thank you for your coverage and being one of few actually willing to speak out
i am currently writing a research paper on nation branding in eurovision and honestly, the knowledge i have gained through this research is something every eurofan should posses. for that reason i am so thankful for this video. people need to be informed.
Could you share the research paper when it's done? I would love to read it, that's really interesting topic that has not been covered enough.
@@SkatPL i will have to double check with my school, but yeah!
As an Eurovision fan I would be really really interested in reading your research! Let us know if and where we can find it
@@rachyvm i will still need a little while to finish it but in the meantime i can recommend you this really good video essay here on youtube called “the queer politics of eurovision” (it also talks about israel and azerbaijan)
Is it possible to read it? :)
Why was Israel given a chance to change the lyrics and title of original song "October rain" but not Belarus or Georgia??? 😕
Belarus was actually able to change their song, but yet again went with one that literally broke the same rules as they broke before.
Georgia withdrew after they were disqualified in 2009 too.
Israel should not have been allowed to compete this year with a song that broke the rules that badly.
Free Palestine and may netanyahu's government continue crumbling.
@superbotnotabot"Free Palestine🤓☝️"
this articulated so many of the arguments i couldn't find the words for myself - great video!
i miss 2023... Blanka was the most contriversial entry for other reasons 😂
Bejbah😂😂😂😂
She couldn't even sing, dressed like Ariana Grande and sung a song that was basically a cover of the song Solo by Demi Lovato 😂
@@BiteBolt_77it’s kainda krezja
Girl... I sent a message to RTP and they are still waiting for EBU's final decision. Better find an alternative for that Morroconoil sponsorship, EBU.
Dont forget how in 2012, because Azerbaijan didnt have a stadium to host the contest in, they forcefully evicted and bulldozed an entire neighborhood to build one
The Baku crystal hall was built on the sea shore. No neighbourhoods were situated in that place. Places that were demolished had nothing to do with the eurovision. Imagine old and ugly blocks in the center of the city. Of course they will be sooner or later demolished for a something new. And actually people who lived there got a compensation, so they were able to buy something in a newly built buildings.
@@Gianavarostill doesn't maiw it right. its someones home noy just an "ugly old block"
Hahaha, neighborhood? In the sea shore??
The drama of the title alone, i cant wait a full day for this video
Another amazing video from you Gabe! Thank you for speaking on the subject! 💕✨
Amazing video analysis! Thank you for such in-depth insights
I am very suspicious of the 300+ votes Israel got from the public. Its an OK song. But that is it. Its not exceptional, it had no hype, the bookies hardly rated it, it was not being used in clubs...it simply does not warrant 300 votes.
The Italian broadcaster made a mistake on the preliminary and Israel had 39% of the votes from the public with songs as popular as Europapa getting 12% and most getting a few percent only. This is suspicious. Israel's song does not deserve 39% of the public vote
People posted online about having several credit cards in different countries, therefore they'd have an extra 20 (or however many) votes and used all their votes on israel. Pro-Israel people who have never interacted with the contest before and even dislike it, still voted for israel this one year
You can't vote against a song. The pro Israel vote goes to Israel, the anti Israel vote is split 24 ways
would not be surprised if like, 250 of these points were because of pro israel ppl voting for it for politics
It was consistenly in the top 3 in most betting markets. The people who claimed not to like it said it was the worst. Clearly I trust the preliminary results over people with an admitted bias who would have voted it last place even if it had been the best song in decades.
I prefer the original song October rain. When you censor a song it’ll get more politically motivated votes. Even though the original was better it probably wouldn’t have gotten as many votes if it wasn’t censored.
Also, Russia was banned because a lot of countries said they would boycott the contest if Russia participated. But if no country had manifested themselves, do you think the EBU would've banned Russia? This is something we will never know
Martin Österdahl said that it was also due to press (independent) freedom in Russia
@@notgonnnagetus How is the press freedom in Gaza rn?
@@_blank-_ or in Izrael for that matter?
Thank you for making this video and highlighting this matter
Thank you for covering this!
I love you for this. Can’t wait for the video.
Thank you for covering this. It’s important we talk about this and the use of Eurovision for political and propaganda purposes. It’s supposed to be about peace and progress and the inclusion of Israel this years says that the EBU endorses what Israel is doing in Gaza. It’s pretty outrageous and puts the reason for the contest existing in doubt.
The world is not black and white. It is possible not to endorse israels war in gaza, and yet at the same recognize its right to self defence
With so many silly videos on UA-cam about Eurovision, this one knocked me off my feet. So thorough and articulate. Good job!
Thank you!!
Eurovision 2012 in Baku and Eurovision 2019 in Tel Aviv have one thing in common other than the political controversies: that is Finland being the only Nordic country to get eliminated in the semi-finals, with the other 4 Nordics progressing to the final.
Finland had an NF that was like communism, a failed experiment with songs selected by authoritarian juries. Later, UMK had its own "reform and opening-up", and Finland has become an emerging Eurovision powerhouse with Blind Channel and Käärijä, who could even compete with Loreen.
Thank you so much for making this highly intelligent video the world needed to hear this!💗
Thank you for addressing this issue. A lot of people seem to ignore Azerbaijan’s “wrongdoings” when it comes to Eurovision.
The question about israel isnt even a new question because of recent events. its been a question for YEARS and came up again when action was taken against russia..
Thank you for your courage in soeaking about this.
Really important themes to discuss. Thanks for making this video!
Tbf, in 2012 it was standard for postcards to not include artists in them, in fact, at that time, 2003 was the last time artists had appeared in the postcard.
Another great analysis. I often think about the Uk through the 70s to 90s and how they were involved in world conflicts, including Ireland. Should people have boycotted in these years?
Ideally yes but being honest the rest of Europe barely remembers we're here most of the time.
Thank you for this video and for speaking out 🙏
I really appreciate your honest acknowledgment of your privilege and how you make it clear that you're just discussing eurovision without getting into all of the history behind it. Your honesty is really refreshing and admirable
just commenting to boost the algorithm, great video, very eloquently put
+ another counter argument for the "don't politicize the contest" crowd: by kicking out Belarus but not Israel who, in their national final showed a disturbing propaganda song using children, the EBU is unequivocally taking a political stance: *it's okay when The West's Friend does it, it's bad when one of those eastern countries does*. so for whoever "against politics" the damage is done already.
Congratulations EBU, the contest has gone into disrepute.
First you need to say the facts straight. Israel didn't put any controversial song in the national final because the national final didn't even happen when I'm writing this. The broadcaster didn't break any rules anyway as the selection is done by a commercial channel. The mood during the first stage was like that, possibly from the fact that 3 of the contestants that were supposed to participate in the first stage were murdered during the festival massacre at the first day of the war and the fact that the public couldn't participate due to missile attacks
This isn't entirely true, the song you're referring to wasn't broadcast in the NF, but instead just on the broadcaster, still not great but the EBU really won't care unless its like torture broadcast on television or like blatant rigging in an NF
The song you’re referring to was showed on a news programme, not an nf
As been written by others, what you described is misleading. Also, did you by any case watch the Icelandic NF?😂 Or it goes like "when it fits my agenda I'm cool with it"?
@@noamyoeli700What happened in the Icelandic NF was a man of Palestinian descent participate with a song titled "Wild West". Tell me what about that is political?
Автор, надо ли было забанить Великобританию за вторжение в Ирак в 2003 году или это другое? Почему не вспоминаем это?
I think a lot of us think that too, even those of us from the UK. We literally waged war under false pretences which our governments knew were false (the weapons of mass destruction did not exist in the form we were told they did) and used a horrific terrorist attack as the basis for it, tricking millions of people into deep patriotic defence of their countries when it was all about oil and control. Of course we should have been removed from the contest because of it, but for the same reasons as Israel now, no country and no broadcaster would’ve called for it. People say we suffered in our rankings because of it instead, but I think if people boycotted voting for us it barely made an impact compared to just the sheer fact that we were sending awful music.
@@MintyDragonfly уважаемый житель Великобритании. Хочу вас расстроить. Ни одна страна в мире, подчеркиваю, ни одна не идеальна. У всех свои чёрные и белые страницы в истории. Возникает только вопрос, а с каких то это мировая общественность стала озабоченной войнами только сейчас? Может пора перестать лицемерить и принимать решения против всех или вообще не принимать?
@@сумпат Our hypocrisy makes me sick in the stomach. We lecture the whole world about human rights but our countries in the West are the biggest offenders.
@@сумпатни одна страна мира не идеальна, но также далеко не каждая совершает геноцид. если кого-то и нужно исключать, так это израиль. другие страны-участницы не находится под судом в гааге
@@сумпатAgree with you. 100%
Thank you for talking about this. This was really thoughtfully and eloquently put together for a notoriously sensitive topic.
Gabe. Thank you so much for your brave video. The elephant(s) in the room need to be addressed. I don't see how an Israeli entry this year will do anything other than "bring the contest into disrepute". I dread the thought of reactions at pre-parties and press conferences for an artist who will have to face very difficult questions..
I won't say I don't agree on some of the points you're making, but I can see some other elephants in the room here. And of course, Eurovision has always been political, and I highly appreciate how you are are trying to have a discussion in a respectful manner.
I find the postcard argument a bit weak to be honest, the UK used postcards without any of the participants in 1998, and I don't remember how anyone had a problem with that. They were simply well produced postcards. And I also think it's hard to have a balanced debate without mentioning the terrorist attacks. I know that won't make arguing any easier, but it also is pivotal in the debate, as it clearly sets it apart from the exclusion of Russia and Belarus in 2022, that did not have this component in it. Not mentioning Hamas is also a political choice.
But the thing that has been on my mind a lot, is that we only talk about Belarus, Russia, Azerbaijan and Israel, all on the borders of the EBU area. And we have never talk about any country in the coalition of the Afhan invasion in relation to Eurovision. Those countries were in a 20 year war, with more loss of innocent lives than now in Gaza. Do we have different standards when it comes to the right to defend our freedom, killing as many as we like? Why has no one every raised any objection in relation to them participating in ESC? Again, these are just questions that sit in my mind. Because when speaking about morals and ethics, we should not only look at others, but also ourselves. And we're not exactly the nice guys responding to terrorist attacks ourselves, nor do any of the individuals who voted for their governments during that time feel responsible for this war.
Anyway, that's my two cents. In no way intended to offend you, but just raising some questions that are troubling me right now. Keep up the good work!
Good points.
Excellent arguments and video! Bravo! ❤
Israel was insanely exploitative and had a mediocre song.
Azerbaijan didn’t do almost anything, and the song was ok.
Ukraine did nothing and put on an insane banger.
I personally disagree Israel had the best song this year. It ashamed that people couldn’t treat Eden Golan with respect. 🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱
I'm very impressed. While you were clearly passionate about how you felt, you were totally professional and I didn't feel like you were trying to force your own opinions on us.
Further to your point about the showing of disputed territories in the postcards, weren't there some comments at the time about the triangles in the star of the 2019 logo looking like the shape of Israel (if it included Gaza & West Bank)?
well done esc gabe !!! keep it up, free free........
i agree on everything Gabe, but i always wonder why no one talks about Azerbaijan's big brother, Turkey. Hasn't Turkey been doing exactly the same, promoting an image to the rest of Europe that they are kind of Westernized, hiding the dark truth? I mean, apart from the obvious (Invading Cyprus and still holding 37% of its territory which is one of the most militarized zones in the world), the LGBTI+ rights are basically non existing, freedom of press is at its lowest level since Erdogan came in power with countless assassinations of journalists and imprisonment of opposition leaders, international human rights organizations keep criticizing them for basic human rights violations, UN accused them of war crimes and i could go on until next year. Yet, when the discussion regarding whether should Turkey return to the contest rises up, everybody seems to forget all their sensitivities regarding lgbti, press and generally human rights. And just to clarify what many will fail to understand, all i say does not go for the people of Turkey, the citizens. We are talking about state broadcasters and government policies here.
as a t*rk, thank you for this comment. a country this terrible has no place in eurovision. besides, we wouldn't even be good if we rejoined. our music scene is terrible. people seem to have a weird nostalgia for us but i really don't know why. but luckily, until a miracle happens and e*****n finally leaves, there's no chance of t*rkey rejoining anyway
I'm saying the same thing for Morocco.
Your point 17:17 is inaccurate - the image is NOT from the Israeli national final, it is actually from the audition stage. I also think it's quite obvious that a country in war would promote its soldiers, with or without Eurovision.
Also, in Israel military service is mandatory because of it's existential threat. Hence, everyone at the age of 18 join the army, so letting a soldier sing at the Israeli "x factor" = letting an 18-21 adult sing. That's no promotion of war or anything like that, that's literally just the majority of the Israelis at some point throughout their lives. If you'll walk on the street in Israel you'll notice people wearing uniform all over the place, since - again, everyone between the ages of 18-21 are doing service and are being required to wear the uniforms for most of the time during weekdays.
Finally someone says it!@@noamyoeli700
Therapist: Beardless Gabe doesn’t exist, he can’t hurt you
Beardless Gabe:
omg I'm so glad I found your channel. I've found my people !! Both loving the contest and able to have relevant political takes about it. Excellent !
The EBU is funded by public broadcasters, this includes broadcasters who abuse the EBU.
The strange thing in this is that the big 5 countries (Germany, Spain, UK, Italy, France) are the biggest payers within the EBU for the Eurovision, and also partly responsible for the bad policies within the EBU.
Really what's the promblem with Azerbaijan and Israel participating in the constest? In the 60s Portugal and Spain were allowed to join the ESC despite both countries being under dictatorial regimes at the time, worse yet when Portugal joined in 1964 they were already in the third year of war with their african colonies (after all Portugal wasnthe only European nation to outright refuse to grant independece to their african colonies) and the thing wouldn't change until 1974 (Portugal) and 1975 (Spain) and clearly the EBU turned on a blantly blind to what was happening back then, so why would it be different this time?
Maybe the point is to learn from past mistakes, no?
What's the problem with Russia then?
I don't know, mass slaughter of palestinians?
A fantastic video. Thank you for making it. I have been wondering what the situation will be like in Malmo (there are Palestinians living there), and what will it be like for the artist to perform there (not wishing any artist to be subjected to abuse, but it can't be easy)?
Thank you for addressing this
I feel like being the aggressor in a war should disqualify you from the contest during that war...
They're only the aggressor in yours and other likeminded peoples' warped minds.
That’s why Russia was banned and not Israel
@@EzraHavilandHow is Israel not an aggressor in the, for lack of better words, ongoing situation? It has overreached from simply trying to defend itself to actively, and perhaps intentionally, killing civilians.
You cannot compare Azerbaijan’s situation with Israel. Karabakh is internationally recognised part of Azerbaijan. That land was illegally occupied by Armenians on the grounds that Armenians were being ethnically cleansing.
Yet Armenians themselves ethnically cleansed azerbaijanis from Armenia long before. There is not a single azerbaijani left in Armenia. But in Baku alone there are 30000 armenians and even their own church. I have armenian neighbour in Baku.
It is just that Armenia had good marketing.
My point is not making Armenia guilty solely. Azerbaijan could have done better in terms of armenians in Karabakh.
So, if there is an issue, most of the time both are guilty and victim.
There were only about 100 ethnic Armenians living in Baku as of 2009. Granted this info is outdated, unfortunately I wasn't able to find a more recent census. However, given everything that went down between Armenia and Azerbaijan ever since, plus the systemic anti-Armenianism in azerbaijani society and politics, I highly doubt tens of thousands of Armenians would have moved to Baku since 2009. Furthermore, the Karabakh/Nagorno-Karabakh/Artsakh region had a majority Armenian population for thousands of years until it was ethnically cleansed in September of last year, and they had declared independence with respect to their right for self-determination. Stalin never should have handed that region to Azerbaijan SSR in the first place, he only did it to sow division between Armenians and Azerbaijanis.
@@blastdamageStalin did not transfer Karabakh to Azerbaijan, find documents confirming this statement. The document signed by Stalin in 1936 clearly states that Karabakh should be LEFT as part of Azerbaijan
Tibet is internationally recognised as China. It isn't.
FINALLY SOMEONE ADDRESSES THIS
Agree!
Everyone addressed this, why do you keep lying about that?
Thank you so much for this video, it is so important to address this issue, it’s so sickening seeing commentaries on esc that act as if nothing is happening…
Thank you for speaking up about this issue! Azerbaijan must be banned from any EU event!!!
In your dreams😂😂😂😂
Thanks for this video. Well done! 👏 👍
I watched Dana International singing in Hebrew and winning the ESC. She was named as being instrumental in bringing LBTQi to the contest. Everyone applauded her, no one complained about Isreal then and the war was going on. It was ok in 1998 to vote for Israel then but not now? Its hypocritical
It's two entirely different eras and generations, the internet wasn't as widely spread and you couldnt access news from different sources as easily as today. Back then no one cared, today's generation cares.
It's ridiculous to compare 1998 to 2024
Thank you so much for this. The silence around this is deafening. We need to do better, Eurovision was created for us doing better. Eurovision should bring countries together for peace, not speaking up.
If a dictatorship like Azerbaijan participates in a contest about freedom, peace and diversity, is this not enough to bring the contest into disrepute?
@@isaibrahimov3276 Just because Joseph Stalin gave parts of Armenia to its neighbouring country it does not mean that it belongs to that country. He was a dictator.
@@lilli171 Stalin didn't give it to Azerbaijan. Stalin decided it should stay within Azerbaijan because Armenians wanted it.
@@ilanfisfisa Artsakh was in the heart of the Armenian Empire for hundreds of years. After the genocide it was tanken away from the Armenians. Azerbaijan exists only since 1918 and is much younger than the region itself.
@@lilli171The state of Azerbaijan itself has existed since 1918, but this does not mean that the Azerbaijanis did not have other states in history. The Azerbaijanis have had many states throughout their history, for example, the Eldigizids , Atabeki, Ak koyunlu, Kara koyunlu, Safavid Empire, Qajar Empire, Azerbaijani Khanates, etc. And in many of them, Karabakh, like the whole of Armenia, was part of them.
@@lilli171 Same logic Russia uses to prove its WAR on Ukraine "we russians had Russian Empire, you Ukrainians exist since 1917...."
finally someone speaking out about those two countries
Thank you for making this video
❤ thank you for this video gabe. I hope more esc channels take your example
on a somewhat related note - it's also incredibly demotivating seeing people constantly devalue armenian culture and say its "azeri culture" as another way of spreading propaganda online and some people not aware of the current political situation between the two taking that false information in and believing it
LOL! I loved your flex on whose in Europe. I'm from Australia, and every year during Eurovision I put on my Eurovision playlist at work so everyone has to listen, and every year they ask me why we are in Eurovision! 🤣😂🤣😂🤣 I'm the only one who brings my speaker and they rely on me for music, so they have to listen to my music!! (I take their requests and make them specific playlists they love, but Eurovision week is for me!!)
I live in Australia and it's so tiresome getting the "I didn't know Australia was in Europe" "we shouldn't even be in the contest we aren't in Europe" I just show the EBU map to them too because I don't have the energy to talk about them.
@@erinnadia0409 Australia is as much a part of the EBU as the USA is. Both are associates. So, you shouldn't be in the contest and weren't up until 2015.
@@coreymunroe8073they were invited though
thank you for this
Lol the majority of them added the Palestinian flag or watermelon to their bio...
Thanks a lot for highlighting this.
Actually Karabakh was not entirely occupied, a large part of it was in Azerbaijan's jurisdiction. So the postcards didn't show any disputed territory as far as I'm aware.
Immediately subscribed!
I think especially with the Israeli-Palestine conflict it's hard to really find a stand, where all other participating countries could pick a side. While I see how pro-Palestine the Scandinavian countries are, other countries like my country Germany are especially declared pro-Israel and would probably boycott the ESC if Israel where to be excluded.
What's up with Germany and g'.nocide???
All central Europe is pro Isreal, including the Baltics. Rightfully so.
The hypocrisy of germany makes me wanna throw up
@@_blank-_ They've learned their lessons from the past and nowadays know to recognize hidden-motives within a convincing propaganda which aims to normalize what you described, but to the other side of the conflict.
Germany knows what brainwashing is. They're fighting against it by standing with Israel right to exist@@_blank-_
Is it true that one of the big five, Germany, refused to fund the Eurovision song contest, if Israel is not allowed to participate?
Striving for honesty, respect!
Thank you Gabe for making this video. It's an extremely sensitive and divisive subject that because of the magnitude of suffering caused to civilians in these conflicts needs to be addressed. Even though it triggers the worst reactions in people on either side. But like you said, Eurovision doesn't exist in a vacuum. When people and nations and their many interests converge on this global platform that is Eurovision, leaning simply on the "it's about the music, not politics" claim is simply sticking your head in the sand. Thank you for not doing that and for including the resources. Stay awesome! Much Love 🤍💙🤍
Seems that you've done some research before filming this video. But there is a fundamental mistake in your logic. Qarabagh (Karabakh) IS not an internationally disputed territory. It is an internationally recognized part of Azerbaijan. Recognized by UN and all countries in the world aside from Armenia. Do you understand the difference now? I am sick and tired of these double standards, when people support the fight of Ukraine for their land, or Georgia (back in 2008) - both being absolutely legitimate and right. But at the same time calling the part of Azerbaijan which was occupied by separatists (supported by Armenian economy, politics and army for 26 years straight) different things like "disputed territory" and asking why Azerbaijan presented it on its postcard. Why not? It is the territory of Azerbaijan. Point. Whatever country you come from, I can guarantee that it too recognizes Karabakh as a territory of Azerbaijan. So when you are talking about all this, why don't you mention the 800.000 Azerbaijanis driven off that territory by the Armenians in the 90s? Don't lives of the Azerbaijani refugees and IDP's count at all? What kind of selective "justice" is this?
Finally someone talking about artsakh
Gabe - i thought this would just affirm my own thoughts but I learnt a heck of a lot particularly how the contest is utilised as a tool.
Interesting video and I appreciate the points you made and researched. The politics are obvious...Zelenskyy wanting to speak at the event last year, Ukrainian government officials apologizing to Poland and Lithuania for not giving their countries points in 2022, and Macron getting involved when Maneskin was incorrectly accused of using drugs. I do want to point out one piece you said that bothered me. While it is fair to question the concept of "pinkwashing" with Israel, your description of Israel presenting itself as progressive as compared to its "less progressive" neighbours bothered me. I am not sure of your orientation but we should never diminish the experience of our brothers and sisters in these countries. "Less progressive" in regards to LGBTQIA+ rights should never be used in a sentence to describe Syria, Egypt, Lebanon, etc. "Repressive" or "Regressive" would have been more accurate terms. Let's have truthful and honest conversations across the board.
As I said, good video and I appreciated the insights. I just had to raise this one point which bothered me. Peace.
Thank you for raising this and appreciate your point. I agree I should have used stronger language like what you indicated and I’m sorry for not doing that 🙏
I mean going to admit, everyone is on the wrong here. If you talk about any country then politics will stick itself in that conversation.
I have been waiting for this.
Art in itself is a political statement in any which way because it's the expression of your ideas or attitudes. And that's politics by definition.
What a great post. I'm watching this instead of the actual contest! Quite aside from actual wars/military conflicts etc. on the less distressing level there's also the voting traditions of e.g. Greece giving 12 points to Cyprus and none to Turkey, and Turkey giving 12 to Azerbaijan and (particularly outrageously) none to Armenia. Also political. And all pretty sad.
This is wrong a wrong information. Turkey always voted for Armenia, 2006 10 points, 2007 12 points and the rest of the years between 6 to 8 points for every year that both countries competed.
Quick question did Serbia condemn the expulsion of Russia because I know the are pretty much a political ally
super imporant to talk about this!!!
Thank you so much for this video. A really good analysis.
The only thing I wish you mentioned also is the Azerbaijani entry in 2020 going "whether Straight or Gay or in between" while being the worst country in all Eurovision for gay people
So what? Why do you make a connection between someone's personal views with the policies of their country? 🤨
@@SwieczkaNiweaniewierzeDarek They represent a country, of course we're going to talk about it.
@@SwieczkaNiweaniewierzeDarek I don't think that was criticism of the artist (of course there are gay-supporting people in Azerbaijan) but that the song was chosen to represent the country. Depending on the approach, that could be seen as something done to spite the government, or it could be seen as a move by the government to make them seem more progressive than they are. This difference in potential perspective is the exact kind of political ploy that makes these things controversial.
First of all, thank you for the effort. Especially regarding Israel you are 100% spot on.
However, what you didn't mention is that regarding international law, it was always supported by the UN that Karabakh is an integral part of Azerbaijan. You should have researches that part a bit better, because it makes you seem very biased. And armenian seperarists in Karabakh and other parts of Azerbaijan are the main culprit in the conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan.
Thank you. I've been going stir-crazy with the growing vacuum in the (UA-cam) ESC community where there should be discourse.
This is why I don’t like world cup especially after Qatar hosting they hated on Russians Chinese Iranians Germans and non Arabs in General
I'm so happy you spoke out on this! Thank you!!!!
Very odd that Croatias' song was allowed last year if they're not allowed to be political. Seems like they only make a stance against something if it's in their favour
Thank you for having the courage to talk about the elephant in the room. This is straight to the point. Love it!
Thank you for talking about this situation so frankly, it must not be easy. I really hope other content creators take part in this conversation too. Being silent is a choice and an action.
When you spend all day looking at the ponderings of armchair journalists and people willing to exploit these tragedies on social media, it’s so refreshing to see someone has taken the time to talk about some real issues with Eurovision in a mature and objective manner. We’re so lucky to have Gabe and co. to cover the show we love - brilliant work! I’ll definitely be using these sources to educate myself throughout the season 👏👏👏👏
Hats off for making this video, respect.
Thankyou for thissss❤
I want to begin by saying this was a good video, and onw of the better ones ive seen from ESC channels on this topic.
I think however there is a difference in how Israel and Azerbaijan are treating this contest. Israeli participations, as all to some extent, have been used for political purposes. But Israel is not this one cohearent governmental narrative you see with how Azerbaijan treats Eurovision. We have had arab israeli participants, Palestinian flags from the stage. Madonna made a political statment for peace between Israel and Palestine. Israel, beacuse it still is a pluralistic democracy (lets see if Bibi changes that). I think its difficult to say that Israel are exploiting this contest, Politics just happens to enter there (even more because Israel always since its creation has remained politicaly controversial). LGBT is generally accepted in Israeli society, but ofcourse there are people in Israel very upset by that fact (incuding political leaders). So I think Israels participation also are being used by mulitple parties for domestic politics (nothing unique there again)
With Azerbaijan, you have a broadcaster with some very questionable connections to its government, a nation clearly participating with the goal of prototing the country. The azeri artist are more controlled in what they can do. That country is more EXPLOITING the contest.
I will be political whatever the EBU does. No one cant deny that everything involving multiple countries will be political. But lets say they decided to ban Israel or any other country, that would also be a very political decision (There exisits stong support for Israel in most countries as well as and those would not like to see their broadcaster boycott). If they started to say anything than that it is apolitical, that would have some very weird consequenses, and we would see even more attempts to use the contest in direct politics matters (promoting specific political parties etc.). Ive seen some good youtube videos explaining why but events like Eurovision and the Olympics must be officially non-political to work. Sorry for this Essay
You completely forgot about Russia getting kicked out. If Europe can't take a stand against genocide, it shows we have no values or respect for human life. BTW, your essay sucks.
A "pluralistic democracy" where half of the people under this regime (Palestinians under Israeli occupation in the West Bank and Gaza) have no say on public affairs, ON THEIR OWN LAND. When Hatari showed the Palestinian flag, they were booed, removed from the premises and the Icelandic broadcaster was fined.
lzræI absolutely exploits the ESC for their soft power and present itself as a cool and inclusive country when it's literally an apartheid state.
@@_blank-_I did not forget about Russia, for this context you CAN NOT AT ALL make a comparison between the Russo-Ukrainian war and Israel-Hamas war
Honestly great essay, 100% true.
Some of the comments here lack objectively based information, and it shows.
Someones not gonna get a press pass for the contest this year!!
I'm curious, how are you handling the calls for boycott by the BDS movement?