37 years ago TSR taught me to use a simple set of rules and my imagination to play a game with infinite variety and possibility. Its simplicity allowed me to modify and create any world and any style I wanted. I was saddened when TSR went under, surprised when ‘Magic’ bought D&D, and completely disinterested when Hasbro took over. I have watched for decades as this game I love has transformed from a simple set of rules and imagination to a complex labyrinth of actions, bonus actions, reactions and exploitative builds. I think a case could even be made that the game has grown so intentionally complex as to force it to a digital platform. As for me, I have my Rules Cyclopedia and my imagination. That’s all my friends and I have ever needed. Thanks again TSR, you changed the world!
I’m a very late comer to the OSR. I originally thought it stood for “Open System Reference” due to the SRD, system reference document, and the OGL. Since it was my understanding that is what paved the way for the OSR to flourish.
There was a lot of open source software thinking that went into the OGL, and the OGL was certainly popular with OSR types making 'retro-clones'. There were lots of other people happily continuing on with their AD&D campaigns that started in the 80s, and didn't pay much attention to that stuff. They were still part of those OSR conversations, especially on forums like Dragonsfoot and the Knights and Knaves Alehouse.
Best description of the OSR I have seen, and all under six minutes. Well done! I like to say that 5e ain't bad, but D&D truly reached its pinnacle in 1977. The OSR movement allows me to play some version of that TSR-era game every weekend. Life is good.
I was a gamer in the pre-WotC days, but I was not around TTRPGs for 3.5 D&D. I am back playing RPGs, but have pretty much given up on D&D and its derivatives. As an outsider looking it I see another element to differentiate new D&D from other games, the relative squishiness of charaters in older games, and the new emphasis on the DM as "another player at the tabletop." So while I do not play according-to-Hoyle "OSR" games, I am very much an old-school roleplayer. In my games combat is brutal and short, and players can very easily die, with zero chance of resurrection. Similarly, as the GM I am the absolute god of my umiverse. The player characters are sojourners in it. And from what I understand that is a far cry from new school gaming. Thanks for the video.
I started playing with TSR products in 1981, but by 1986 I was playing or running 8 different game systems. When 2E AD&D came out everyone I knew who played either was loo0king forward to it or didn't care because they played other games and there were so many different games at the time that you could run/play 30 games and none of them needed to be a TSR product. Years later, back home in my small town, I heard about 3E and I was looking forward to it, but after I got my books and read them I realized that while the game fixed the issue of "A 5th lvl fighter is the same as every other 5th lvl fighter and a 5th lvl Thief is the same as every other 5th lvl Thief" the mathematical method of character advancement was a turn off. Gone were the days when a GM could just add the EX awards of monsters together, not you had to use tables and do math. I gave up on D&D-like games 20 years ago. There are still dozens of great games in other Genres to play that allow me to use my creativity to build settings and run interesting games.
I appreciate the analysis of the information presented, good stuff. I know for me, I like to play OSR and modern versions of TTRPGs. In my experience, the most fun my players have ever had is when I've ran campaigns that are a hybrid between the two.
While it’s interesting to think that the flexible options in MtG deckbuilding informed WotC’s thinking in developing 3e’s option-rich system, TSR was already moving in that direction with the Player’s Option and Complete [class name] books in the mid-90s. Talislanta also has tons of player options, and WotC published that game well before they did MtG.
Very excellent video, sir. Thank you! I'm very much a pre-WOTC DM/Gamer (as you put it). The way I use the term OSR is indeed Old School Roleplaying (feel, and rulings vs rules)....imho-only though. 🤓👍
But what does that mean? It is only games that use a d20, have descending Armor Class, strict and limited Classes, and no skills. OR It is the feel of the games you run where the world is not tame, your character could die at any time, equipment weight meant something, and the GM was GOD.
@@kevinsullivan3448 I took the question of what is the OSR to be asking the acronym of it. In my brain it spells out Old School Roleplaying. Didn't intend for anything deeper than that. If you must have it though, then I would say the old school sort of feeling of a game I played when I first started out. A game that did have skills just not as many as those now-a-days. But achieving goels with characters was more difficult. Reaching the final room of a dungeon and/or escaping a dungeon was more difficult. It was grittier, way more challenging and brutal on characters. For me it was sessions where if you didn't have your wits about ya your character was done for.
I'd never come across the idea that OSR was initially a rif on TSR. Do you have a reference for this? I became aware of the term via OSRIC and other clones years ago. I'd heard the term OSR used often before I'd seen it as a variation of the TSR logo. I agree that the only thing folk seem to agree on in relation to it is that OS stands for old school. But then plenty folk will argue about what is classed as old school. The narcissism of small differences is strong here.
"I was there Gandalf..." I was part of those conversations back in the early days. I designed many of the different OSR logos that you see on published RPGs, and my friend designed the one I used in this video.
@@BlackBirdMagic thanks. I only became aware of the discussions around the definitions of the R and the tribalism in the past couple of years. Been playing since Moldvay (not just D&D though) and always just thought of them all as games, divided (if necessary) by genre. But that's just me in my tiny corner of the hobby. I do like the TSR style OSR logo, thought it was a nice wee homage. Wasn't aware of the development of it.
@@johnhiggins6602 The term "old school RPG" was in use years earlier than 2005. This is a great demonstration of what I mentioned in the video about people not agreeing on the R. :) A lot of (at the time) younger gamers didn't feel as welcome on Dragonsfoot and spent more time in other places online like RPG.net. Posts using the terms Old School RPGs and Old School Roleplaying games appear there as early as 2002. The acronym "OSR" was definitely TSR inspired, particularly when turned into a logo and put on blog rolls or book covers.
That sounds just like another myth. I mean why the O then? With HAL there was at least a consistent letter down from IBM. Sure the OSR logo looks similar to the TSR one, but I would like to see evidence that the logo was actually made at the same time the term was first used.
Different people like different things and WotC's first D&D (3e) was certainly very popular. So was 4e and 5e for that matter. None of them are what people were talking about when they said OSR though.
People who complain about the “problematic” OSR are generally the same people that will flame the internet over gatekeeping D&D but ultimately want to gate keep the OSR for its independent thinking on the game and its rejections that external politics or culture war belong in the game. The OSR just wants to play the best rpg table it can and stays committed to that concept. Although its purpose is not to reject the group think of the WOTC game crowd, ultimately it does and that’s why they can’t tolerate it. The ironic thing is that it speaks more to how politically dominated the WOTC space has become that an apolitical space becomes a threat to it.
@@RobOfTheNorth2001 100% disagree with you. Many of us have seen this and have it happen personally over and over again. These activists infect any power centers they can. This includes publishers, judges, conventions, or any organizational structure. It's part of their woke religion, they are megalomaniacs at heart. This isn't just about "unruly players". Your denial just contributes to the banality of neutral evil.
As a fairly problematic individual with many thoughts that run counter to today's body politic, I would like to formally file my application for cancelation from The Community. Best thing for all parties, really. What exactly are the criteria for this process and who's in charge of it? I fear I may run a problematic campaign in the very near future and I don't want to do something that others may not approve of.
Wonderful video! The parallels between MtG deckbuilding and character builds was something I haven't heard so succinctly described before.
Thanks very much. :)
Came here to say the same thing. Mind blown
37 years ago TSR taught me to use a simple set of rules and my imagination to play a game with infinite variety and possibility. Its simplicity allowed me to modify and create any world and any style I wanted.
I was saddened when TSR went under, surprised when ‘Magic’ bought D&D, and completely disinterested when Hasbro took over.
I have watched for decades as this game I love has transformed from a simple set of rules and imagination to a complex labyrinth of actions, bonus actions, reactions and exploitative builds. I think a case could even be made that the game has grown so intentionally complex as to force it to a digital platform.
As for me, I have my Rules Cyclopedia and my imagination. That’s all my friends and I have ever needed. Thanks again TSR, you changed the world!
There are things that are good for the RPG hobby and there are things that are good for the RPG industry. Sometimes they overlap... but not always.
I’m a very late comer to the OSR. I originally thought it stood for “Open System Reference” due to the SRD, system reference document, and the OGL. Since it was my understanding that is what paved the way for the OSR to flourish.
There was a lot of open source software thinking that went into the OGL, and the OGL was certainly popular with OSR types making 'retro-clones'. There were lots of other people happily continuing on with their AD&D campaigns that started in the 80s, and didn't pay much attention to that stuff. They were still part of those OSR conversations, especially on forums like Dragonsfoot and the Knights and Knaves Alehouse.
Best description of the OSR I have seen, and all under six minutes. Well done! I like to say that 5e ain't bad, but D&D truly reached its pinnacle in 1977. The OSR movement allows me to play some version of that TSR-era game every weekend. Life is good.
Hey, Stuart. Great video. You may remember me from the ancient days of blogging and G+. Hope to see more stuff soon.
Thanks. Great to hear from you again! :)
I was a gamer in the pre-WotC days, but I was not around TTRPGs for 3.5 D&D. I am back playing RPGs, but have pretty much given up on D&D and its derivatives.
As an outsider looking it I see another element to differentiate new D&D from other games, the relative squishiness of charaters in older games, and the new emphasis on the DM as "another player at the tabletop."
So while I do not play according-to-Hoyle "OSR" games, I am very much an old-school roleplayer. In my games combat is brutal and short, and players can very easily die, with zero chance of resurrection.
Similarly, as the GM I am the absolute god of my umiverse. The player characters are sojourners in it.
And from what I understand that is a far cry from new school gaming.
Thanks for the video.
I started playing with TSR products in 1981, but by 1986 I was playing or running 8 different game systems. When 2E AD&D came out everyone I knew who played either was loo0king forward to it or didn't care because they played other games and there were so many different games at the time that you could run/play 30 games and none of them needed to be a TSR product. Years later, back home in my small town, I heard about 3E and I was looking forward to it, but after I got my books and read them I realized that while the game fixed the issue of "A 5th lvl fighter is the same as every other 5th lvl fighter and a 5th lvl Thief is the same as every other 5th lvl Thief" the mathematical method of character advancement was a turn off. Gone were the days when a GM could just add the EX awards of monsters together, not you had to use tables and do math.
I gave up on D&D-like games 20 years ago. There are still dozens of great games in other Genres to play that allow me to use my creativity to build settings and run interesting games.
I appreciate the analysis of the information presented, good stuff. I know for me, I like to play OSR and modern versions of TTRPGs. In my experience, the most fun my players have ever had is when I've ran campaigns that are a hybrid between the two.
While it’s interesting to think that the flexible options in MtG deckbuilding informed WotC’s thinking in developing 3e’s option-rich system, TSR was already moving in that direction with the Player’s Option and Complete [class name] books in the mid-90s.
Talislanta also has tons of player options, and WotC published that game well before they did MtG.
Very excellent video, sir. Thank you! I'm very much a pre-WOTC DM/Gamer (as you put it). The way I use the term OSR is indeed Old School Roleplaying (feel, and rulings vs rules)....imho-only though. 🤓👍
I always thought renaissance and revolution sounded a little pretentious, and usually think of the R as roleplaying.
I play OSR style using 3.X rules. I know that may seem strange to some, but my group really likes it.
Ew
I think that is how DCC works.
@@BX-advocate Lol
My brain go with OSR= Old School Roleplaying or roleplay. But that's just me.
But what does that mean? It is only games that use a d20, have descending Armor Class, strict and limited Classes, and no skills.
OR
It is the feel of the games you run where the world is not tame, your character could die at any time, equipment weight meant something, and the GM was GOD.
@@kevinsullivan3448 I took the question of what is the OSR to be asking the acronym of it. In my brain it spells out Old School Roleplaying. Didn't intend for anything deeper than that. If you must have it though, then I would say the old school sort of feeling of a game I played when I first started out. A game that did have skills just not as many as those now-a-days. But achieving goels with characters was more difficult. Reaching the final room of a dungeon and/or escaping a dungeon was more difficult. It was grittier, way more challenging and brutal on characters. For me it was sessions where if you didn't have your wits about ya your character was done for.
I really hope you guys return some day!
This message is grognard approved. New sub.
Well done! Very good video, and well presented!
Great video! Skipped over TARGA, I guess that is forgivable. I suppose. 🦇
Thanks! TARGA sort of falls under what I was talking about at 4:27 but they tried changing the term altogether.
Good video, I was thinking about making a video about my particular OSR preferences, so perhaps this is the nudge I needed...
Thanks Hoss! You should do that for sure.
I'd never come across the idea that OSR was initially a rif on TSR.
Do you have a reference for this?
I became aware of the term via OSRIC and other clones years ago.
I'd heard the term OSR used often before I'd seen it as a variation of the TSR logo.
I agree that the only thing folk seem to agree on in relation to it is that OS stands for old school. But then plenty folk will argue about what is classed as old school.
The narcissism of small differences is strong here.
"I was there Gandalf..."
I was part of those conversations back in the early days. I designed many of the different OSR logos that you see on published RPGs, and my friend designed the one I used in this video.
@@BlackBirdMagic thanks. I only became aware of the discussions around the definitions of the R and the tribalism in the past couple of years.
Been playing since Moldvay (not just D&D though) and always just thought of them all as games, divided (if necessary) by genre.
But that's just me in my tiny corner of the hobby.
I do like the TSR style OSR logo, thought it was a nice wee homage. Wasn't aware of the development of it.
@@johnhiggins6602 The term "old school RPG" was in use years earlier than 2005. This is a great demonstration of what I mentioned in the video about people not agreeing on the R. :)
A lot of (at the time) younger gamers didn't feel as welcome on Dragonsfoot and spent more time in other places online like RPG.net. Posts using the terms Old School RPGs and Old School Roleplaying games appear there as early as 2002.
The acronym "OSR" was definitely TSR inspired, particularly when turned into a logo and put on blog rolls or book covers.
That sounds just like another myth. I mean why the O then? With HAL there was at least a consistent letter down from IBM. Sure the OSR logo looks similar to the TSR one, but I would like to see evidence that the logo was actually made at the same time the term was first used.
The term was a riff on TSR. Source: I was part of the scene and made half the OSR logos you've seen on books. :)
@@BlackBirdMagic still does not explain why the O was chosen. And well, memories are unreliable.
A problem is that people equate OSR with WotC DnD. One isn't a better version of the other, they're different systems.
Different people like different things and WotC's first D&D (3e) was certainly very popular. So was 4e and 5e for that matter. None of them are what people were talking about when they said OSR though.
Yes many OSR versions are DEFINITELY a better version of WotC's version. Especially the recent 5e garbage.
People who complain about the “problematic” OSR are generally the same people that will flame the internet over gatekeeping D&D but ultimately want to gate keep the OSR for its independent thinking on the game and its rejections that external politics or culture war belong in the game. The OSR just wants to play the best rpg table it can and stays committed to that concept. Although its purpose is not to reject the group think of the WOTC game crowd, ultimately it does and that’s why they can’t tolerate it. The ironic thing is that it speaks more to how politically dominated the WOTC space has become that an apolitical space becomes a threat to it.
100% percent disagree. The OSR space and the rules of the games can be totally fine while we can still kick out the problematic personalities.
@@RobOfTheNorth2001 100% disagree with you. Many of us have seen this and have it happen personally over and over again. These activists infect any power centers they can. This includes publishers, judges, conventions, or any organizational structure. It's part of their woke religion, they are megalomaniacs at heart. This isn't just about "unruly players". Your denial just contributes to the banality of neutral evil.
100% agree with you, William Hoover. They call us problematic today just like they called us nerds and losers back in High School 30 years ago.
As a fairly problematic individual with many thoughts that run counter to today's body politic, I would like to formally file my application for cancelation from The Community. Best thing for all parties, really.
What exactly are the criteria for this process and who's in charge of it? I fear I may run a problematic campaign in the very near future and I don't want to do something that others may not approve of.
@@RobOfTheNorth2001 Kicking people "out of the OSR" is like kicking people out of being a gamer. It's not that kind of thing.