Hi Boaz. Aside from using the correct woods for your guitars, do you think that the bracing inside the guitar body improves the stability of the neck, and indeed the whole guitar, thus removing the necessity for a truss rod or an adjustable truss rod. Thank you for your insight and vast amount of knowledge. Best regards, Sean.
1) I've been in woodworking 50 years, and 40 years ago I went to a lumberyard, not a fancy wood storey and bough 3 x 2x4 x 18' cedar boards to make a support to build a conoe. They were something like 6 dollars each. The cedar was good enough to build a classical guitar soundboard out of. Torres would have been in heaven, since he did not oversellect his wood. Today, the stuff we get is crap. So if you go back to when the inclusion of a truss rod was first being considered, it would have been extremely easy to get good wood. And cheap also. You literally would have had to pay extra for the crap we get today. 2) Some players will adjust the necks to deal with conditions, and others are at a stage where they don't know what the perfect setup is for them, yet. If you have a high quality truss rod there is no downside, you have the best of both worlds. 3) Of course you do not need a rod, there are other options. And many instruments including classical guitars, rarely use them. But acoustic steel string guitars have twice the pull of classical guitars, and some players want the smallest neck section they can get. Back in the 19th C, some guitars used a movable neck, so the neck was made perfectly, but the whole structure could be adjusted . 4) Does the rod affect tone? Probably not badly. Anyway, it is the sound people expect. But when Boaz was making his Kasha guitars, they used extra metal in the necks to get a stiffer and better sounding guitar. It was mostly about the weight. 5) A lot of similar instruments have less strings than a guitar, or the neck is shorter than the guitar neck as a percentage of the instrument size. Violin family instruments have 4 strings, so you can get a nice neck, while having it a lot deeper. That makes it much stiffer. It is also usually a maple neck, while the sound of some guitars is related to cedar. A neck that is twice a deep will be 8 time stiffer, so these apparently small variation will make for a large difference in the engineering of the neck.
I’m agree with what you say I also enjoy your knowledge and experience. And is very true on Kasha nylon string guitar we did use heavy metal Trus-road to increase The “critic mass “ Boaz
I feel that i need to interject here. You itemize your points, Hondo; but very quickly sidestep the aspect of "tone" ("timbre" is the actual term. "Tone color" is another). Look at the number of frets in electric guitars with a solid body, compared to the 12 frets over the neck of the Classical or Flamenco types ... The first have long necks and look like giraffes. Therefore the mechanical, metallic, Truss rod would be proposed by the engineer type, ignoring what a combination of metal rod and wood within the neck does to the timbre of each string under tension. But electric guitarists are going to "amplify" & modulate, and alter the timbre regardless - The electronics might even add reverb, Delay, equalization, or Distortion, etc. then obviously: the timbre without electronics is immaterial (no pun intended). Have you heard what a stuppyd electric guitar sounds like, unplugged? It has barely any volume... The body is solid for a reason : so other raucous noises by the drummer, bass electronics, don't feed into the guitar (as much). Acoustically, it's a maddening, stringent, self-feeding, mixture of uncontrolled harmonics and buzzes - but that's the idea (oh, how "modern"!! How "novel"... No. Noise is not novel... Get near a passing truck or train...) After all the expense, all they needed was a kitchen blender making noise in the background. But that wouldn't require talent (neither playing with electronics)... Oh, what outstanding artists. They certainly stand out :( if all fails, turn up the volume until the "music" (noise) MOVES you. Keep the beat going and dumb girls will dance, then, maybe strip (the real goal).... Lastly, once you convince people that their new guitar's neck could bend over time...they'll want a Truss rod in it. Ha, ha: then you can sell them junk, and add 50% to the price! But it's a guitar generally used to make noises and designed by an engineer without musically trained ears, rather than a luthier who constructs "acoustic" instruments. There's no comparison. Notice that sound travels about 10 times faster in a metal rod than in wood. ... Conceptually, take it from there if you please 😮 Boaz cannot say this. I can 🙈
@@johndevilbiss6607 "I feel that i need to interject here. You itemize your points, Hondo; but very quickly sidestep the aspect of "tone" ("timbre" is the actual term. "Tone color" is another)." I didn't sidestep it, I don't think it is significant. There isn't any evidence that if there is an effect it is adverse. Tonal variations are quite wide in guitars, even from the same maker, often working with the same wood. As Mentioned Boaz has used the metal weight to improve guitar performance. The problem with guitars is that most people like them as they are. So extra weight, even if it were good, is not necessarily going to make guitars run out of the shop. But people often regard it as superior, when it has been tried, certainly not negative, and largely not necessary. "Look at the number of frets in electric guitars with a solid body, compared to the 12 frets over the neck of the Classical or Flamenco types ... The first have long necks and look like giraffes. Therefore the mechanical, metallic, Truss rod would be proposed by the engineer type," Certainly long electric necks are a factor, but the main factors are 1) much heavier tension of steel strings. These tend to be even higher acoustic steel string guitars, and they use truss rods also. It is not necessary in the sense that before truss rods came along they used bar frets, square in section, but setting the whole thing up perfectly was very difficult, as the frets created the resistance by creating a compression load along the fretboard. 2) Guitarists want an adjustable action so they can tweak performance. " ignoring what a combination of metal rod and wood within the neck does to the timbre of each string under tension. But electric guitarists are going to "amplify" & modulate, and alter the timbre regardless - The electronics might even add reverb, Delay, equalization, or Distortion, etc. then obviously: the timbre without electronics is immaterial (no pun intended). Have you heard what a stuppyd electric guitar sounds like, unplugged? It has barely any volume... The body is solid for a reason : so other raucous noises by the drummer, bass electronics, don't feed into the guitar (as much). Acoustically, it's a maddening, stringent, self-feeding, mixture of uncontrolled harmonics and buzzes - but that's the idea (oh, how "modern"!! How "novel"... No. Noise is not novel... Get near a passing truck or train...)" Electric players are obsessed with tone. One could argue moreso than classical players. Not because they have better ears or training, but because they all either want to sound like someone whom they are copying, or are at the level where they want a unique sound and become the next next Clapton. Or they are studio players and get asked to do very specific things. The idea it is all some chaos, is not realistic. "Boaz cannot say this. I can 🙈" He might not say it as he manufactures electrics also. At this point, truss rods are not necessary to retain the guitar neck structure, as we have entirely stable materials, quite a few approaches. Carbon is now cheap, sometimes cheaper than standard woods, let alone exotics. It is simply the most obvious way to get extreme stiffness in a neck. The choice to use truss rods is actually based not on saving money or making junk guitars, it is largely a tool to provide adjustment, and a tradition. The funny thing is that electric guitars are now old technology from back before music was... digital. Just as a violin might change with humidity, or warm up when it is played, electric guitars are an analog technology with a lot of personality. I like the story of Neil Young being able to tell, and have to adapt to the hertz of the different sources of AC in the halls he payed.
@@johndevilbiss6607 what an uninformed and biased ramble - almost comedic in scale and intensity - devaluating an entire category of instruments that have shaped music and modern society for more than half a century
1958 premier scroll. brazilian rosewood neck. no truss rod. I use 11 through 50 flatwounds. I bend 3 and 4 sometimes as many as 5 strings at a time, and I sometime do not to so much as adjust a single tuning peg for 2 or 3 weeks
I feel like it's a by product of mass producing guitars....I'm sure when they are making a lot, they don't want to worry about how straight the neck is...this is a way of ensuring they are all straight..I've tryed this myself(hobbyist) there is no need for a truss rod....and I used pine...like I said, testing...but it was fine...quarter sawn ofc. I'm sure if I used a heavy guage string I would need to take out the relief by hand and it would possible cup a little...but I stand by this...no need, if you do it right.
True the Acoustic Guitar and Electric Guitar has steel strings which put a lot more force on the neck of the guitar. The basic shape and size of the neck for the Acoustic and electric guitars has not changed from the Classical guitar.
FYI.... I had made a comment and an assumption that "factory" made classical guitars have truss rods to compensate for them using lesser grade woods for their necks. Meaning the wood wasn't properly aged and dried. Well please read below. I emailed Burguet, the luthiers who made my high-end studio model and inquired about the strip of ebony on the back neck my guitar and of some of their other models. I also inquired about the use of truss rods in factory made guitars. Vanessa Burguet, his daughter, an accomplished luthier in her own rights replied back to me that the ebony strip running along the back of the neck on some of their models is for decoration. She also informed me that all Burguet guitars have truss rods in the neck, although not accessible or adjustable. She also stressed that all the woods used in making their guitars has been air dried for a minimum of 20 years. She also said that in the 55 years that they have been making guitars, their clients have never had an issue with the necks. No bowing or twisting. So I was mistaken in regards to the ebony strip and truss rods. You live and learn as my mom used to say.
short answer IMO: It's because modern guitar necks are getting thinner with low action even with a good hard wood. Compare it to classical stringed instruments, they have thick necks, some are short which has bigger strength against string bends.
I have an old arch top made in the 1930s to early 1940s by Gibson. V carve neck made as an off brand (Cromwell) . The neck is still nearly perfect after being left lying around and neglected at times. No truss rod.
Ahhhh, now we know and agree. Selecting the properly aged wood first of all requires a skilled cratsman who knows what he's looking for. This is critical to the proper guitar quality and of course the process must be expensive, it must be.
My Spanish made classical Guitar is 10 years old and the string heights are perfect without a truss rod. If I put steel strings on a classical guitar the neck would bend.
It is harder to make steel string necks than classical necks. There is just more to it. Though newbies often obsess over the "difficultly" while experts are going to have no real difficulty either way. But the idea that classical guitar magicians are doing something incredible with magic wood is ridiculous. It is standard woodworking. I have never had one bend out of shape. Making a neck that has all that going for it plus has a channel designed to bend the neck as required is just more. These days making guitars that are structurally sounds and pretty is not even hard. There is so much information, and the materials have never been better. I think we rapidly crossed that point 30 years ago, when video came out. But making guitars that sound right out of all the different material choices takes a lot of experience. A famous maker did a huge book on the subject a while back, and the book had nothing in it on how to get to a good sound. He obviously had his formula, but he couldn't explain it. The reason companies do Ok is because the flood the market with good guitars and people can then choose on they like. Luthiers have to make every guitar saleable, one hopes to the person that ordered it. Boaz is highly regarded. I have followed his work back from when he was working with Schneider, over 20 years ago. I admire his guitars.
yeah but not really. a lot of expensive/historical instruments (from the best wood) without rods do have a bow due to tension. with electric it's all about super low action and light finger pressure which is where the truss-rod makes sense. also going to the moon has little to do with bumpers, it's an irrelevant comparison.
I love this guy, he speaks the truth. A classical guitar made with the correct wood, air dried and aged (20 years) needs no truss rod. You only see truss rods in "Steel String" and electric guitars that use "high tension" strings., and also guitars that use woods that probably were not aged long enough or dried correctly, or just a lesser grade. They are coming out of factories that mass produce and don't have the time to acquire better grades of wood or air dry the woods for 20 years. These factories are in the business to sell quantity not quality (per se). They buy bulk piles of wood and use kilns to speed up the drying process. I own a beautiful Burguet classical that has a Spanish Cedar neck, ebony fingerboard and no truss rod. What it does have is a strip of ebony about a 1/4" wide that runs the whole length of the back of the neck to help strengthen it and keep it straight. Of course this guitar was made in a small luthiers' shop that builds quality instruments. Plus classical guitars do not use the high tension strings that acoustic and electric guitars use.
John, it can't hurt. But to be a little more specific; ebony is a very dense and hard wood, and because of these characteristics; it helps add rigidity to the already strong cedar wood used to make the guitar neck. Now I also own a classical guitar the was made in a "factory" in China and I can almost guarantee you that the wood that was used to build it wasn't air dried for 20 years. It's a "factory" made instrument, and this one does have an adjustable truss rod because the wood is younger and most probably Kiln dried. Woods like these will have a tendency to want to go back to their natural state (shape) if it's not properly cared for... By this I mean proper ambient room temperatures and humidifies. Ask a learned. And again as I stated strings on a classical guitar put less stress on the neck, and bridge.
@@martinziese74 thanks... It's just that if you were to hold the strip of ebony alone, up in the air, it would bend - depending on its thickness. Yes, it's the hardest wood (pretty), but even a long strip of aluminum bends noticeably under its own weight. Just looking for the truth. Merchants will do all kinds of things to give you a false sense of confidence. If it sells, their problem is solved... A lot of people buy a cheap guitar, but then hardly play on it. So, they had their thrill; and the factory has their money 😁
@@johndevilbiss6607 happy to answer your questions. I believe if you hold a piece of ebony 1/4" x 1/4" x 24" it will be ramrod straight. Plus it's possible that the piece of ebony that my high-end guitar has goes deep into the neck. I really don't know without sawing it in half... but ain't gonna do that to prove a point. But I will do the next best thing and email the luthier who made mine and ask him why that strip of ebony is there. I'm sure he will let me know whether or not it's for aesthetic purposes or for strengthening the neck, or both. I'll also email the maker of my "factory" made model and ask them why they use truss rods. FYI, I used to make furniture, cabinets and such and I also built a few houses from the ground up in my younger days... All kinds of woods glued and nailed together helped make them strong. Good properly cured wood and good glue used to piece these woods together help to make them almost as strong as steel. And to get back to the crux of the issue, why is there a truss rod. Back to how the instrument was made and what materials were used in making it. Also my factory made model that has a truss rod was not cheap. But did cost less than half of my luthier model. Peace Out )=
@@johndevilbiss6607 I emailed Burguet luthiers and inquired about the strip of ebony on the back neck of some of their models. I also inquired about the use of truss rods. Vanessa Burguet, his daughter an accomplished luthier in her own rights replied back to me that the ebony strip running along the back of the neck on some of their models is for decoration. She also informed me that all Burguet guitars have truss rods in the neck, although not accessible or adjustable. She also stressed that all the woods used in making their guitars has been air dried for a minimum of 20 years. She also said that in the 55 years that they have been making guitars, their clients have never had an issue with the necks. No bowing or twisting. So I was mistaken in regards to the ebony strip and truss rods. You live and learn as my mom used to say.
I love Boaz but I think he's missing something. He chooses his woods, and does subtle things with his materials. I would bet that his guitars don't need truss rods. But the rest of the world needs them.
Dear Michael I read your comments and I must agree that you are right. almost all production Guitars do need truss rod because the materials are not well selected. And very often I can see Poor materials on custom guitars. I’m embarrassed to say but if the guitar neck is not strong enough because lack of materials , adjustable truss-rod is good solution
Cheap.... mass production. Also micro tilt adjust. How to.... put two straight pieces together and then then counter string tension. Where a luthier will do this while constructing. The finesse of bindings, rosette and french polish. Takes time.. time costs money. Money eats profit. so a factory will compromise
Largely untrue myth making. It is the strings and the way instruments are played. You want a neck you can wrap your thumb over the top of with strings that pull 200 pounds, you need a different structure, than on a Classical neck that is larger in section, and uses nylon string that pull 100 pounds. Buy Boaz's most wonderful classical, put 200 pound steel strings on it, and see what happens. There are tons of 10K acoustics out there that have truss rods in them. Guitars can be made to high string tension, and have some adjust ability in string height without a truss rod. But it isn't what people are used to, or quite as adjustable. Truss rods not only tilt the neck they can change the dish in the neck.
So which would be a historic error? The truss rod came about to solve the issue of necks moving in guitars that were mass produced and shipped all over different climates using woods that were not seasoned in the same way as traditionally made instruments. Lamination of reinforcement could've provided a possible solution but imagine the added manufacturing step compared to adding a truss rod. Those badly made, poorly selected materials, guitars were lasting only a decade... Martin did not start to use adjustable truss rods until it was sourcing materials in the same pool and after Gibson (and 'me too' brands) had convinced three and a half generations of players that it was a necessity, 1985... It's guitars and company have managed to survive until the marketing blurb could not be ignored as a sales tool to compete with emerging brands from the Far East and the almighty Gibson. Martin from just before the 1920s have survived to playable condition to this day. Gibson from the same era are collectors item foremost. It is the same mentality for rosewood/mahogany/maple back and sides. Luthiers know that other woods can do the job without affecting the tone, playability and longevity of the instrument but... That's what the market wants or have come to expect as quality indicators. Ignorance goes in different directions.
I don't buy the explanation. I have seen fine guitars with premium materials and builds on Classical, Steel String Acoustics, Flamenco's, and Electric Guitars that have Truss Rods. Saying you did not see it on original instruments such as a Torres does not really amount to much because the guitar is always evolving and sometimes that evolving includes improvements that even Torres made on his guitars compared to earlier guitars before his time. The reality is that on old guitars like Torres, gut strings were used, not nylon and definitely not steel strings. This is a big reason why you don't see Truss Rods on really old guitars. The reality is that all wood can bow or bend regardless of quality of wood, cut, or build. If you don't believe me, take a finely built guitar and expose it to the a hot and humid climate for a long period and then expose it to a dry and cool climate for a long period. Do so at your own risk because I would never do so.
The problem speared when metal strings started. Metal strings have much higher tension.
That’s why they didn’t need them back then.
הסבר מצוין. תודה רבה !
Great video.
Hi Boaz. Aside from using the correct woods for your guitars, do you think that the bracing inside the guitar body improves the stability of the neck, and indeed the whole guitar, thus removing the necessity for a truss rod or an adjustable truss rod. Thank you for your insight and vast amount of knowledge. Best regards, Sean.
1) I've been in woodworking 50 years, and 40 years ago I went to a lumberyard, not a fancy wood storey and bough 3 x 2x4 x 18' cedar boards to make a support to build a conoe. They were something like 6 dollars each. The cedar was good enough to build a classical guitar soundboard out of. Torres would have been in heaven, since he did not oversellect his wood. Today, the stuff we get is crap. So if you go back to when the inclusion of a truss rod was first being considered, it would have been extremely easy to get good wood. And cheap also. You literally would have had to pay extra for the crap we get today.
2) Some players will adjust the necks to deal with conditions, and others are at a stage where they don't know what the perfect setup is for them, yet. If you have a high quality truss rod there is no downside, you have the best of both worlds.
3) Of course you do not need a rod, there are other options. And many instruments including classical guitars, rarely use them. But acoustic steel string guitars have twice the pull of classical guitars, and some players want the smallest neck section they can get. Back in the 19th C, some guitars used a movable neck, so the neck was made perfectly, but the whole structure could be adjusted .
4) Does the rod affect tone? Probably not badly. Anyway, it is the sound people expect. But when Boaz was making his Kasha guitars, they used extra metal in the necks to get a stiffer and better sounding guitar. It was mostly about the weight.
5) A lot of similar instruments have less strings than a guitar, or the neck is shorter than the guitar neck as a percentage of the instrument size. Violin family instruments have 4 strings, so you can get a nice neck, while having it a lot deeper. That makes it much stiffer. It is also usually a maple neck, while the sound of some guitars is related to cedar. A neck that is twice a deep will be 8 time stiffer, so these apparently small variation will make for a large difference in the engineering of the neck.
I’m agree with what you say I also enjoy your knowledge and experience.
And is very true on Kasha nylon string guitar we did use heavy metal Trus-road to increase The “critic mass “
Boaz
I feel that i need to interject here. You itemize your points, Hondo; but very quickly sidestep the aspect of "tone" ("timbre" is the actual term. "Tone color" is another).
Look at the number of frets in electric guitars with a solid body, compared to the 12 frets over the neck of the Classical or Flamenco types ... The first have long necks and look like giraffes. Therefore the mechanical, metallic, Truss rod would be proposed by the engineer type, ignoring what a combination of metal rod and wood within the neck does to the timbre of each string under tension. But electric guitarists are going to "amplify" & modulate, and alter the timbre regardless - The electronics might even add reverb, Delay, equalization, or Distortion, etc. then obviously: the timbre without electronics is immaterial (no pun intended). Have you heard what a stuppyd electric guitar sounds like, unplugged? It has barely any volume... The body is solid for a reason : so other raucous noises by the drummer, bass electronics, don't feed into the guitar (as much). Acoustically, it's a maddening, stringent, self-feeding, mixture of uncontrolled harmonics and buzzes - but that's the idea (oh, how "modern"!! How "novel"... No. Noise is not novel... Get near a passing truck or train...)
After all the expense, all they needed was a kitchen blender making noise in the background. But that wouldn't require talent (neither playing with electronics)... Oh, what outstanding artists. They certainly stand out :( if all fails, turn up the volume until the "music" (noise) MOVES you. Keep the beat going and dumb girls will dance, then, maybe strip (the real goal)....
Lastly, once you convince people that their new guitar's neck could bend over time...they'll want a Truss rod in it. Ha, ha: then you can sell them junk, and add 50% to the price! But it's a guitar generally used to make noises and designed by an engineer without musically trained ears, rather than a luthier who constructs "acoustic" instruments. There's no comparison.
Notice that sound travels about 10 times faster in a metal rod than in wood. ... Conceptually, take it from there if you please 😮
Boaz cannot say this. I can 🙈
@@johndevilbiss6607
"I feel that i need to interject here. You itemize your points, Hondo; but very quickly sidestep the aspect of "tone" ("timbre" is the actual term. "Tone color" is another)."
I didn't sidestep it, I don't think it is significant. There isn't any evidence that if there is an effect it is adverse. Tonal variations are quite wide in guitars, even from the same maker, often working with the same wood. As Mentioned Boaz has used the metal weight to improve guitar performance. The problem with guitars is that most people like them as they are. So extra weight, even if it were good, is not necessarily going to make guitars run out of the shop. But people often regard it as superior, when it has been tried, certainly not negative, and largely not necessary.
"Look at the number of frets in electric guitars with a solid body, compared to the 12 frets over the neck of the Classical or Flamenco types ... The first have long necks and look like giraffes. Therefore the mechanical, metallic, Truss rod would be proposed by the engineer type,"
Certainly long electric necks are a factor, but the main factors are 1) much heavier tension of steel strings. These tend to be even higher acoustic steel string guitars, and they use truss rods also. It is not necessary in the sense that before truss rods came along they used bar frets, square in section, but setting the whole thing up perfectly was very difficult, as the frets created the resistance by creating a compression load along the fretboard. 2) Guitarists want an adjustable action so they can tweak performance.
" ignoring what a combination of metal rod and wood within the neck does to the timbre of each string under tension. But electric guitarists are going to "amplify" & modulate, and alter the timbre regardless - The electronics might even add reverb, Delay, equalization, or Distortion, etc. then obviously: the timbre without electronics is immaterial (no pun intended). Have you heard what a stuppyd electric guitar sounds like, unplugged? It has barely any volume... The body is solid for a reason : so other raucous noises by the drummer, bass electronics, don't feed into the guitar (as much). Acoustically, it's a maddening, stringent, self-feeding, mixture of uncontrolled harmonics and buzzes - but that's the idea (oh, how "modern"!! How "novel"... No. Noise is not novel... Get near a passing truck or train...)"
Electric players are obsessed with tone. One could argue moreso than classical players. Not because they have better ears or training, but because they all either want to sound like someone whom they are copying, or are at the level where they want a unique sound and become the next next Clapton. Or they are studio players and get asked to do very specific things. The idea it is all some chaos, is not realistic.
"Boaz cannot say this. I can 🙈"
He might not say it as he manufactures electrics also.
At this point, truss rods are not necessary to retain the guitar neck structure, as we have entirely stable materials, quite a few approaches. Carbon is now cheap, sometimes cheaper than standard woods, let alone exotics. It is simply the most obvious way to get extreme stiffness in a neck. The choice to use truss rods is actually based not on saving money or making junk guitars, it is largely a tool to provide adjustment, and a tradition.
The funny thing is that electric guitars are now old technology from back before music was... digital. Just as a violin might change with humidity, or warm up when it is played, electric guitars are an analog technology with a lot of personality. I like the story of Neil Young being able to tell, and have to adapt to the hertz of the different sources of AC in the halls he payed.
@@johndevilbiss6607 what an uninformed and biased ramble - almost comedic in scale and intensity - devaluating an entire category of instruments that have shaped music and modern society for more than half a century
1958 premier scroll. brazilian rosewood neck. no truss rod. I use 11 through 50 flatwounds.
I bend 3 and 4 sometimes as many as 5 strings at a time,
and I sometime do not to so much as adjust a single tuning peg for 2 or 3 weeks
Why empty a neck, weaken it by removing wood and then place a bar that serves to strengthen it?
I couldn’t agree with you more, exactly
I feel like it's a by product of mass producing guitars....I'm sure when they are making a lot, they don't want to worry about how straight the neck is...this is a way of ensuring they are all straight..I've tryed this myself(hobbyist) there is no need for a truss rod....and I used pine...like I said, testing...but it was fine...quarter sawn ofc. I'm sure if I used a heavy guage string I would need to take out the relief by hand and it would possible cup a little...but I stand by this...no need, if you do it right.
Great
True the Acoustic Guitar and Electric Guitar has steel strings which put a lot more force on the neck of the guitar. The basic shape and size of the neck for the Acoustic and electric guitars has not changed from the Classical guitar.
FYI.... I had made a comment and an assumption that "factory" made classical guitars have truss rods to compensate for them using lesser grade woods for their necks. Meaning the wood wasn't properly aged and dried. Well please read below.
I emailed Burguet, the luthiers who made my high-end studio model and inquired about the strip of ebony on the back neck my guitar and of some of their other models. I also inquired about the use of truss rods in factory made guitars. Vanessa Burguet, his daughter, an accomplished luthier in her own rights replied back to me that the ebony strip running along the back of the neck on some of their models is for decoration. She also informed me that all Burguet guitars have truss rods in the neck, although not accessible or adjustable. She also stressed that all the woods used in making their guitars has been air dried for a minimum of 20 years. She also said that in the 55 years that they have been making guitars, their clients have never had an issue with the necks. No bowing or twisting.
So I was mistaken in regards to the ebony strip and truss rods. You live and learn as my mom used to say.
What about environments with fluctuating humidity. No matter how old the wood is or how long it was air dried the wood will move.
You think you know about porous woods; but you don't
If you are aiming for a very thin neck like some Ibanez guitars (17 mm neck thickness), it might need some support.
short answer IMO: It's because modern guitar necks are getting thinner with low action even with a good hard wood. Compare it to classical stringed instruments, they have thick necks, some are short which has bigger strength against string bends.
Classical also use nylon strings with less tension.
I feel his frustration! Damit, just make a bumper that don't fall
👍😀🎸🇬🇧
I have an old arch top made in the 1930s to early 1940s by Gibson. V carve neck made as an off brand (Cromwell) . The neck is still nearly perfect after being left lying around and neglected at times. No truss rod.
Did you tune it to Concert pitch?
@@johndevilbiss6607 440 a yup
@@johndevilbiss6607 it is a stout neck Mahogany I beleive.
חחחחחחחח קרעת אותי בועז עם ההוא שמבקש טרוס-רוד בגלל שלפנדר יש,נפלתי לרצפה מהצחוק,אתה צריך לנסות קצת סטנד-אפ קומדי,יש לך את זה.☺☺☺
Ahhhh, now we know and agree. Selecting the properly aged wood first of all requires a skilled cratsman who knows what he's looking for. This is critical to the proper guitar quality and of course the process must be expensive, it must be.
My Spanish made classical Guitar is 10 years old and the string heights are perfect without a truss rod.
If I put steel strings on a classical guitar the neck would bend.
It is harder to make steel string necks than classical necks. There is just more to it. Though newbies often obsess over the "difficultly" while experts are going to have no real difficulty either way. But the idea that classical guitar magicians are doing something incredible with magic wood is ridiculous. It is standard woodworking. I have never had one bend out of shape. Making a neck that has all that going for it plus has a channel designed to bend the neck as required is just more.
These days making guitars that are structurally sounds and pretty is not even hard. There is so much information, and the materials have never been better. I think we rapidly crossed that point 30 years ago, when video came out. But making guitars that sound right out of all the different material choices takes a lot of experience. A famous maker did a huge book on the subject a while back, and the book had nothing in it on how to get to a good sound. He obviously had his formula, but he couldn't explain it. The reason companies do Ok is because the flood the market with good guitars and people can then choose on they like. Luthiers have to make every guitar saleable, one hopes to the person that ordered it.
Boaz is highly regarded. I have followed his work back from when he was working with Schneider, over 20 years ago. I admire his guitars.
yeah but not really. a lot of expensive/historical instruments (from the best wood) without rods do have a bow due to tension. with electric it's all about super low action and light finger pressure which is where the truss-rod makes sense. also going to the moon has little to do with bumpers, it's an irrelevant comparison.
Not bumpers.... Falling bumpers in the age of technology and metallurgy...
I love this guy, he speaks the truth. A classical guitar made with the correct wood, air dried and aged (20 years) needs no truss rod. You only see truss rods in "Steel String" and electric guitars that use "high tension" strings., and also guitars that use woods that probably were not aged long enough or dried correctly, or just a lesser grade. They are coming out of factories that mass produce and don't have the time to acquire better grades of wood or air dry the woods for 20 years. These factories are in the business to sell quantity not quality (per se). They buy bulk piles of wood and use kilns to speed up the drying process.
I own a beautiful Burguet classical that has a Spanish Cedar neck, ebony fingerboard and no truss rod. What it does have is a strip of ebony about a 1/4" wide that runs the whole length of the back of the neck to help strengthen it and keep it straight. Of course this guitar was made in a small luthiers' shop that builds quality instruments. Plus classical guitars do not use the high tension strings that acoustic and electric guitars use.
You think that the strip of ebony "helps"??
How much?
John, it can't hurt. But to be a little more specific; ebony is a very dense and hard wood, and because of these characteristics; it helps add rigidity to the already strong cedar wood used to make the guitar neck.
Now I also own a classical guitar the was made in a "factory" in China and I can almost guarantee you that the wood that was used to build it wasn't air dried for 20 years. It's a "factory" made instrument, and this one does have an adjustable truss rod because the wood is younger and most probably Kiln dried. Woods like these will have a tendency to want to go back to their natural state (shape) if it's not properly cared for... By this I mean proper ambient room temperatures and humidifies. Ask a learned. And again as I stated strings on a classical guitar put less stress on the neck, and bridge.
@@martinziese74 thanks... It's just that if you were to hold the strip of ebony alone, up in the air, it would bend - depending on its thickness. Yes, it's the hardest wood (pretty), but even a long strip of aluminum bends noticeably under its own weight.
Just looking for the truth. Merchants will do all kinds of things to give you a false sense of confidence. If it sells, their problem is solved...
A lot of people buy a cheap guitar, but then hardly play on it. So, they had their thrill; and the factory has their money 😁
@@johndevilbiss6607 happy to answer your questions. I believe if you hold a piece of ebony 1/4" x 1/4" x 24" it will be ramrod straight. Plus it's possible that the piece of ebony that my high-end guitar has goes deep into the neck. I really don't know without sawing it in half... but ain't gonna do that to prove a point. But I will do the next best thing and email the luthier who made mine and ask him why that strip of ebony is there. I'm sure he will let me know whether or not it's for aesthetic purposes or for strengthening the neck, or both. I'll also email the maker of my "factory" made model and ask them why they use truss rods.
FYI, I used to make furniture, cabinets and such and I also built a few houses from the ground up in my younger days... All kinds of woods glued and nailed together helped make them strong. Good properly cured wood and good glue used to piece these woods together help to make them almost as strong as steel. And to get back to the crux of the issue, why is there a truss rod. Back to how the instrument was made and what materials were used in making it.
Also my factory made model that has a truss rod was not cheap. But did cost less than half of my luthier model.
Peace Out )=
@@johndevilbiss6607 I emailed Burguet luthiers and inquired about the strip of ebony on the back neck of some of their models. I also inquired about the use of truss rods. Vanessa Burguet, his daughter an accomplished luthier in her own rights replied back to me that the ebony strip running along the back of the neck on some of their models is for decoration. She also informed me that all Burguet guitars have truss rods in the neck, although not accessible or adjustable. She also stressed that all the woods used in making their guitars has been air dried for a minimum of 20 years. She also said that in the 55 years that they have been making guitars, their clients have never had an issue with the necks. No bowing or twisting.
So I was mistaken in regards to the ebony strip and truss rods. You live and learn as my mom used to say.
Now have trees tod I classical guitar
I love Boaz but I think he's missing something. He chooses his woods, and does subtle things with his materials. I would bet that his guitars don't need truss rods. But the rest of the world needs them.
Dear Michael
I read your comments and I must agree that you are right.
almost all production Guitars do need truss rod because the materials are not well selected.
And very often I can see Poor materials on custom guitars.
I’m embarrassed to say but if the guitar neck is not strong enough because lack of materials , adjustable truss-rod is good solution
So, A truss rod allows mass production with mediocre materials while still producing a playable instrument.
Cheap.... mass production. Also micro tilt adjust. How to.... put two straight pieces together and then then counter string tension. Where a luthier will do this while constructing. The finesse of bindings, rosette and french polish. Takes time.. time costs money. Money eats profit. so a factory will compromise
Largely untrue myth making. It is the strings and the way instruments are played. You want a neck you can wrap your thumb over the top of with strings that pull 200 pounds, you need a different structure, than on a Classical neck that is larger in section, and uses nylon string that pull 100 pounds. Buy Boaz's most wonderful classical, put 200 pound steel strings on it, and see what happens. There are tons of 10K acoustics out there that have truss rods in them.
Guitars can be made to high string tension, and have some adjust ability in string height without a truss rod. But it isn't what people are used to, or quite as adjustable. Truss rods not only tilt the neck they can change the dish in the neck.
Make sure your guitar has a truss rod. Micro tilt is handy too… Many times things evolve from historic error and ignorance.
So which would be a historic error? The truss rod came about to solve the issue of necks moving in guitars that were mass produced and shipped all over different climates using woods that were not seasoned in the same way as traditionally made instruments. Lamination of reinforcement could've provided a possible solution but imagine the added manufacturing step compared to adding a truss rod. Those badly made, poorly selected materials, guitars were lasting only a decade...
Martin did not start to use adjustable truss rods until it was sourcing materials in the same pool and after Gibson (and 'me too' brands) had convinced three and a half generations of players that it was a necessity, 1985... It's guitars and company have managed to survive until the marketing blurb could not be ignored as a sales tool to compete with emerging brands from the Far East and the almighty Gibson. Martin from just before the 1920s have survived to playable condition to this day. Gibson from the same era are collectors item foremost. It is the same mentality for rosewood/mahogany/maple back and sides. Luthiers know that other woods can do the job without affecting the tone, playability and longevity of the instrument but... That's what the market wants or have come to expect as quality indicators. Ignorance goes in different directions.
Thats why professional violins are 10ks' of dollars
There are many reasons. Depends on what you mean by "professional violin"
I don't buy the explanation. I have seen fine guitars with premium materials and builds on Classical, Steel String Acoustics, Flamenco's, and Electric Guitars that have Truss Rods.
Saying you did not see it on original instruments such as a Torres does not really amount to much because the guitar is always evolving and sometimes that evolving includes improvements that even Torres made on his guitars compared to earlier guitars before his time.
The reality is that on old guitars like Torres, gut strings were used, not nylon and definitely not steel strings. This is a big reason why you don't see Truss Rods on really old guitars.
The reality is that all wood can bow or bend regardless of quality of wood, cut, or build. If you don't believe me, take a finely built guitar and expose it to the a hot and humid climate for a long period and then expose it to a dry and cool climate for a long period. Do so at your own risk because I would never do so.
Perfectly true, other than that Classical guitars pretty much never need them. The Torres design is still viable today.
in classical, truss rod is A BIG NO NO
in steel string, it is rather necessary unless you use a very thick and sturdy neck, which defeats the purpose
throw all classical guitars with a truss rod in them. thank me later