I love the fact that you're stressing how important the logic behind secret passages is, just like you did with traps. It makes DMing feel like actual learning and that's awesome. Kudos
Looks like having a sentient creature in a sci-fi setting, most creatures don't wake up one day and just "oh hey I'm sentient creature, I do people things", a creature needs to evolve to have sentience, and things don't evolve for no reason, especially sentience
Thinking of how a wizard might counter this, the illusion might mirror another section of the wall to match... until the barbarian nicks the sample with his axe and a mirrored scuff mark shows up 15ft away.
@Insanity 576 last time I suggested this, people hated me... but have a long hallway leading to the outer wall of a tower. Open up a doorway and cast Silent Image on the inner edge of the hallway (giving the illusion of a grand hall) and Silence on the other side.
During a battle, the druid crit failed a ranged attack at an enemy. The wall behind him had a secret door. So I said "roll another attack, please." she rolled a natural 20, so of course her arrow hit the switch to open the door. It was a total improvisation on my part to put the switch there too, but it worked in the moment, and the players loved it.
Servant/workman passageways. As an idea for why there be concealed doors. Also for theatrics. A musician's balcony to a grand hall might have a door that blends in with a decorated wall but is easy to open.
Or if a theater's entire stage is trapped or otherwise not a valid path for traversing it's length, perhaps the door they're looking for leads to the catwalk? Just spit balling here.
It's good to keep in mind the "tech level" of the dungeon's architects. Most civilizations or designers can make a door that looks like a wall, if they can build a wall in the first place. Anyone can plaster over a passage. It takes a great deal of mechanical knowledge and resources to build a secret door unlocked by machinery in another room. And it takes some magical knowledge/power to create an illusory wall or warded passage.
I like how the 'Timer-Door' works, like a lever on one side the castle opens a door/gate on the other side and the party has to run fast to go through in time. That really fits in horror settings.
Alternatively, if the distance between the switch and the door is too great to cover, the party may be forced to split up, with some of them going through the door, and at least one of them staying behind to open the door for the rest of the party (assuming either they don't have teleportation magic that can get them back to the rest of the group, or there's something preventing the PCs from teleporting through the doorway). If they leave one party member behind, do they leave more than one behind so that person doesn't have to fend entirely for themselves should trouble find them? Do they maybe risk sending only one person through the door, so that if there's danger on the other side, only one of them has to worry about getting out? There's a lot of ways the timer door can create decision making opportunities for a party.
Another fun secret door is the lost to renovation door. In places that are hundreds of years old it is expected for some construction at a later date to change the floor plan. Rooms get sealed shut when no longer in use then forgotten and the door is plastered up for a new fresco or fancy wood paneling.
I have used this one before, the best part is that you can have interesting 'treasures' within such places. A good example is valuable building materials that might now be hard to come by. For example: Take a ruined castle or mansion, in such places the use of valuable metals in decoration or other uses might have been common when the building was whole. Now hundreds of years later all of that will have been salvaged/looted by anyone with access to the site. Discovering a sealed room that was forgotten during a renovation might now contain off cuts of such things, what the renovators considered trash not worth salvaging could now be valuable treasure to the adventurers. Depending on the personality of the inhabitants, such places could even be full of the last decorations (statues, pottery, artworks, chandeliers etc) that someone decided they hated and wanted removed. Renovators might have come to the storage room and decided that since no one had used this stuff in decades, no one would notice if the just covered the door with a new wall and moved on. No matter the timeline, people are inherently lazy and will often take the easy way out of situations.
One way to approach the illusory passage idea is to consider the potential of players finding it accidentally. The party walks into a room and in the opposite wall there is a doorway that looks like the rest of the wall unless perceived from a specific angle. You can have hints that guide players to a specific landmark in the room where they will see ths doorway. Example: There is writing on the wall outside saying "those who seek knowledge will find the passage" and the party walks in to find some treasures, miscellaneous furniture, but importantly a bookshelf. Whoever stands at the bookshelf can look at the wall and see the doorway that was previously disguised.
They would pull every book off that shelf, and in extreme cases, spend hours reading every book then reading it agains while looking for secret (invisible to normal vision) magic runes in them.
I'd totally forgotten about the 'lever opens a door you can't see' version of a secret door, thanks! The Interdiction Door is also a really good idea I haven't used before. Here's to another year of fantastic tips for games!
There is also a difference from a Secret Door (usable by a select few) and a Concealed Door (usable by every one that knows). Concealed Doors are used to prevent breaking up architecture or furniture details. (Door in a panel behind row of Choir Chairs) that aren't readily visible. Or the passage behind tapestries.
I think the best way to assist players who struggle with puzzles is to have them chase someone into a room without an obvious exit. Then seed in some clues. They know the door has to be there, or at least something
one of my players was investigating a church library. he had a really good perception on the room itself and I described how he stopped dead in his tracks and was confused about the layout of the stacks. and he went through a good investigation of the bookcase that was hiding a stairwell up to the offices of a midboss. never said anything about a secret door at first, just described his confusion and let him work it out
I had a secret door that is attached to an illusion trap. Where the door behind them closed when they walked into a small dead-end room. Illusory water starts to pour into the room and the players have to perceive the water is an illusion. Those who don't take small increments of cold damage as the rounds advanced for them honestly wait it out. If they were able to perceive the water to be fake they stop taking cold damage in the end. This was set in an abandoned monastery where throughout the whole complex up to this point was "Mind over matter."
So excited for the new video. Something I recommend is adding some furniture to the room you do your recording in. I can hear the echo bouncing around and some padding or heavy curtains can help take that out and absorb the extra sound
I had a secret door in a dungeon I made. It was activated on a statue behind the book-shelf in the library. I added a note in the jail that someone the goblins had captured was taken there to read some dwarvish runes on the stone wall further in.
a personal favorite of mine is a callback to the game Riven, where a door hides a passage when it is opened just by obstructing it. it would be a temporary measure in a lot of cases, as the secret is revealed once the entryway is more closely inspected or once people decide to just close the door as they take their time to investigate the room.
10:00 this is super great advice for more than just secret doors. It can be applied in so many ways. I just wish I was smart enough to have thought of that...
This is something the older DMGs used to have as basic information for all DMs. Unfortunately the newer editions of D&D (4E/5E) have dumbed the game down by a lot and lost so many of these helpful hints. If you have any tough questions about RPG related things, feel free to ask on such videos. Myself and others will be happy to share our decades of experience with new DMs. World Building and campaign construction are my specialty area's, but DMing in general is something I've been doing for many many years.
So happy y'all are back ! Great video. Had a illusionary secret door half way down a well with clues it was there, after running multiple parties though it someone finally found it.
One use for secret doors in larger dungeons can be to bypass previously explored areas. Kinda like how Dark Souls will have those doors that can only be opened from the other side, but doing so creates a shortcut so the player doesn't have to trudge back through previously explored areas. In this case, you have secret doors that are obvious from the other side, but that the players probably won't find till they've actually explored the dungeon and reached said other side.
@nunya buisiness Not if you're a clever DM and anticipated what the party might try and design the door so it can't be defeated those ways. Also, fake doors (i.e. dead ends) and wandering monsters will eventually keep players from lingering too long trying to get through a 'stuck' door.
@@JMcMillen If you've got the right gaming group, it's 4-8 heads to one - they'll find something you missed. If they've got the right DM, it'll be the last time it gets missed on accident instead of as plot device or world building. "I'm going to start tapping the walls, my "worthless" tremor sense will show me what segments aren't connected to the floor." (and that's why the ventilation for drow villas is a small air gap between the floor and wall - they think of paranoid crap like that) "Fook tha door, Imma dwoorf, Imma gonna take the frame apaht" (This is why Dwarf made vaults have adamant sheathing over the stonework, inside and out - they think if they could do it, so could anyone) "Out der way, shrimpie - I goliath charge the door with a shoulder ram" (Flying species don't always put their exits at ground level..... *snicker*)
@nunya buisiness That's why the first few they encounter should be immediate dead ends (ex. caved in rooms). Plus, those attempts to open the door take time and make noise, which will certainly attract monsters to the area. Eventually the party should learn that it's a waste of time and resources, and that there is either an easier way into the room they'll discover later or that there is nothing beyond the door worth getting at.
@@JMcMillen Mine learn that hidden doors & secret passages mean there's something worth hiding, and the more it's worth hiding the more dangerous the search is going to be. "You do realize you are attempting to break into the vault of Grimtooth, the Troll who literally wrote the book(s) on traps, right?" They were furious to find out he's not the kind of Troll with warts & regeneration - he's the kind of Troll that traps every footstep of a 12 floor dungeon, all leading to a room empty of everything but a note reading "the real treasure was the traps we tested along the way - GT" (after two years of learning that traps mean somethings worth stealing....)
Extremely useful and informative video for dungeon Masters, definitely saved this one and shared it on my server. I'm surprised you don't have hundreds and hundreds of thousands of subscribers, your videos are always very well done and incredibly informative.
something else that can be helpful is outside of games things. like have someone or ppl who arent in the game go through the scenes to see if its too hard/easy ect, or after the session talk with players about things they missed to better understand how they see things and they get better ideas what to look for with you. gotta keep in mind YOU know all the details so its a different experience for you then for them.
Good to see yall! Great video; traps, puzzles, and secret doors are all things I want to use but it is an art to do it in ways that are natural, engaging, and meaningful.
Another great video! Have y'all ever thought about making a published adventure or dungeon using some of the principles you elaborate on in the vids? Think my favorite one is the Metroidvania video.
All players, DM's and content creators should be aware that wizards is circulating a change to the OGL that will allow them to take and republish the content produced by other creators (Including YOUR DM) without compensation. Don't do anything that requires you to sign on with OGL 1.1. #OpenDND Master the dungeon, good video. These are all fantastic tips for DMing. I once built a dungeon that was a structure where no door led to the same place from both sides. Split the party almost instantly when someone found a hidden passage lol
8:36 I have firsthand experience with this. I've been running The Wild Beyond the Witchlight, and one of the plothooks is that something was stolen from each of the players and they're trying to get it back. A while back the players found the place, but while the adventure offers all sorts of clues to all kinds of extra secrets, there was zero clues for where or even how to get past the secret. The players were ready to leave the place when the session ended and I had to do a lot of hinting and nudging to make them have a second look. This is only making me more involved with adjusting prewritten content
I've been DMing for years and have always struggled to implement secret doors. This video was mindblowing for me, had me going 'ohhhhhh' at several points at the genius obviousness of your suggested implementations. Passive perception for hints and active perception for fully revealing the door is brilliant, as is the system of setting DCs based on information already known. I have new hope about including secret passages in my adventures!
Here's an Idea - "The Emperor's new door." It basically follows the narrative of the Emperor's new clothes. This door is only visible to those with an int score above a certain amount. It could be made by a prideful mage thinking no one could be smarter, for laughs the int requirement might even be a low 12. You can make it so only those that meet the requirements can enter the room even if the others know it to be an illusion then make a huge empty room with a single chest to challenge the players inside. They would be left thinking what would happen to them if trouble finds them without their usual Brute force tank buddies.
This is the best tear down of secret doors I've ever seen. I love traps and doors and features that make sense and reward players for figuring them out, or reinforce the world verisimilitude when revealed. I can't wait to see the rest of your videos. Thank you!
Just wanted to say hello, and I am loving your channel. I’ve been role playing since the 1980’s and love finding so many new content creators. One of the things i love about this genre of gaming is how many different ideas, thought processes and just cool ways people have to get or keep players involved or interested in the game. Keep up the great work and I look forward to catching up with your videos. Thanks for the work you put in to make games better or just showing a different way of looking at things.
The players cannot roll above a 2 to safe their lives? Don’t care, give them the secret door or treasure anyway. Then hint at a much larger mystery or bounty that they failed to uncover. They could just return at a later stage and look again, hooked forever! 😊 „Adjusting the DC on the fly“ is, imo, exactly why my group of nerds dethroned their original DM and switched over to my game. He ran a game that was very much ‚by the book‘, no deviations allowed. But discovering secrets and failing forwards is much more fun! Above mentioned guy is arguably the ‚best‘ player at my table when it comes to roleplay and him sitting on the other side of the screen definitely elevated PC interactions as well as immersion within the world and my NPCs. I assume stepping down from the forever DM position was to his liking as well 😂
I would love to receive issues of that Secret Doors of Faerun magazine. Also super glad to see a video pointing out that the logic of why a secret door exists should be a hint to the players to look for one.
I wonder what hint I can give to players in terms of single-use secret doors besides something like: "This wall looks diffferent" or "The wall is slightly craked" ?
Passages only accessible via magic, like Shape Water/Ice, Mold Earth or similar cantrips, might be a bit much, but I like that idea. Just to make some specialised cantrips work. All depends on the group, of course. If no one has those spells, no need to add them unless you give the players an option to do so, like magic items. Finding doors could also be done by roleplay, aye. If someone says they lean against a specific wall or does something super special, they should be rewarded.
Haven't used it, because it hasn't come up in any campaigns I've run, but watching this video makes me think of a couple novels I've read in a political intrigue setting where the Ruler's sleeping chambers are hidden behind a secret door as a safeguard to assassination attempts.
I put a mission critical item behind a secret door once. You can do it just realize you have to change the parameters of success and failure. A group of baddies was in the next room with a hidden door between them and the party. I gave the PCs an investigation check, if they rolled well they found the secret door and surprised the enemies. If they rolled mediocre they found the door but didn’t surprise the enemies. If they rolled poorly they made too much noise searching and the bad guys opened door surprising the party. In all cases that door was opening and there would be a fight. The roll just determined which side had an advantage. Don’t hide content behind a skill check. The door must always be opened.
This video came at the perfect time! My players are about to dungeon crawl through a wizard school library, and I wanted some secret doors and passages
Ooh great video! I’m just about to sit down and draw up a dungeon for a little adventure I’m running this weekend, so the timing is perfect! Now onto that traps video…
You could also make a secret door that is not hidden at all but can take the players to a different location depending on the actions taken prior to opening the door. For example the door the players opened when they first met at a tavern (or other place the party could first meet) could lead to said place normally, but take the players somewhere completely different if specific actions are taken when opening the door.
These videos give me life and secret doors are legitimately one of the things I look forward to adding whenever I make any homebrew dungeon. Really glad that I had the right idea before watching. Bit Clichè probably? I was wondering about a secret door being a portal disguised as a mirror.
Secret mirror door: completely open oval set between two rooms that are decorated as mirror images. A blade-thin rim around the oval to maintain the illusion of a flat mirror inset to the wall (dex save dc8 with adv to avoid the "trap"). For bonus points, put these two rooms a little time after a vampire encounter. "Uh oh, we're not in the mirror"
I tend to use secret doors a lot in my dungeons, but only for optional treasure/magic items they could use. Here's a couple that I used: One was inside of a crypt. The party enters into a room with a number of statues, and urns - big and small. One of the statues is turned at a sharper angle than the others. Upon closer inspection, the floor has deep scratch marks seemingly from the statue being moved back and forth from against the wall to away from it and vice versa. One of the players searches the wall for any levers or switches, and finds none, but DOES discover that one of the bricks is very loose and the mortar around it has fallen away from being pulled out multiple times. She pulls the brick free and reaches inside the shallow hole, finding a lever inside and pulling it. The wall beside them rises up and the party finds TREASURE! I have also used the "wall that looks like a normal wall" secret door. In the world, it was an old dwarven trick where they'd use something akin to paper mache to create thin walls and put wood boards in front of it so it looked like a rock wall behind some support beams in a mine. Any sharp object would cut right through it with enough force. The players managed to find this out based on a clue in a journal they found that was written in dwarven. Thankfully for them, the cleric player knew the dwarven language even though she wasn't a dwarf. The journal said, "Where ever you see your face, it is near." The players would find playing cards printed with dwarven kings, queens, jacks, and jokers scattered throughout the mine, so when they found one, the players would cut through the wall and find small caches of treasure inside.
One thing that I like to do is put very well-hidden secret elements in a room, and then only once they've cleared the scene will they be informed about the secret. Then they go back to the dungeon with new eyes, and potentially new monsters and a new owner. One example was that I hid a macguffin behind a secret passage. They missed the passage despite my hints, and learned later what they missed. But the second time around, the dungeon was now populated by kobolds, some of which were geared up with armor and items that the PCs had previously left behind. But with their previous familiarity of the dungeon, they opened up their old maps and were able to plan around what they knew. Instead of exploring, they were planning a heist.
one of my favourite uses of a secret passage not mentioned here is *hidden convenience* it may just be a faster or secret way between two otherwise very separate rooms and can be used for tropes like *forbidden love*.
Welcome back! Another well done and thorough video! I just miss the old music though 🥺 new music sounds a little too low or feels like it can only be heard sometimes. I'm eagerly awaiting the next one!!!!
I generally operate on the concept I learned watching enough Matt Colville: "It doesn't exist until they make it exist." You can make a secret door pretty quick, all things considered. And they'll never know if you placed it there for their sake unless you make it obvious or outright tell them. You'll know they *want* the secret door if they even ask. Everything exists in your campaign settings in a state of superposition. It is and isn't there and your job as the DM is to flip the switch on your quantum computer.
I like using secret doors for what I think of as the "Skyrim Locked Door". Basically, a shortcut after the boss fight or exploration or other objective is complete, and it's not secret from that side. The key difference from Skyrim's locked doors though, is that it's not a locked door that can't be opened, but a secret door that can be discovered. So, if they find it earlier, they can potentially bypass traps, guards, etc. and get to their objective quicker. And if they miss it, then they can use it later as a shortcut. This gets even better if it's a location they'll return to later, as they might remember it, have left some mark to find it again, or even left it open (propped, destroyed, etc.). Which, at minimum, gives them more known options when returning, but potentially even an advantage to exploit.
While you may want to avoid campaign critical items or information behind secret doors, a potential exception to that is if instead of that being the only way the players can find said item/information, it's a way to access them early. They may even lack the context at the time of discovery to know why that information or item is important, but that early discover may give them a leg up in a later scenario or otherwise act as a clue that there's more going on than they first thought. Essentially, they can act like an optional plot twist that progresses the story if found, but doesn't halt the story if not. Otherwise, if the plot demands they need to go through a secret door, then the players need to be armed with the knowledge that the secret exists somewhere (overheard conversation, interrogation, notes, reliable rumor, etc), and either get clues on where to search, or tail a suspect to reveal said secret.
The sims 3 world adventures did a good job of using hidden doors. Most of the main paths were either unbidden or east to find. The trickier ones were for unnecessary but rewarding discoveries. If you just wanted to dash the quest you could get it done in a few minutes. If you wanted to explore every square, it would require lots of investigation, some trial and error, and in some cases multiple doors were ganged together. The fear of being discovered or attacked made investigating more than a chore
Seeing this video reminds me of an idea for an unusally complex book case door I had at one point. One book might be called a history of traps, and has to be removed first in order to safley open the secret door, another might be called a history of secret doors and has to remain on the shelf, the third would be called something like how to open secret doors and is removed in order to open the door. however if history of traps is not removed before how to open secret doors the room will try to murder you instead of opening the secret door.
I have had a case where the players were actively looking for a secret room they KNEW was in said room. (Bad guy went in, bad guy didn't come back out) They couldn't be 100% certain it wasn't magical in nature ofcourse but he was just a normal cultist, so they deduced it was more likely to just be a secret door or something along those lines. They were correct but couldn't for the life of them figure out where it was in neither roleplay nor in roles. (it was under them. Basically a really well hidden trapdoor. Don't ask me why they never even thought about the floor...Maybe it was the lack of a carpet) They were getting a bit frustrated and were just about to give up when one stated "God damn it! I throw my hammer onto the floor and walk out!" Obviously just wanting to make a light joke about his character being as frustrated as he was. That was all I needed. It ended up being one of the funniest sessions as this meathead of a barbarian made a "god damn it....Iahhh!" sound as the ground under him suddenly vanished as he fell down into the secret tunnel like a magician might disapear on a stage. Sometimes, them failing doesn't mean they can't succeed..just..not in as graceful a way as they might have expected. (As a little sidenote. Yes, they did NEED to find this secret hangout but if they really couldn't find it, they could have just stalked the place out, found one of the other several secret doorways or "interrogated" one of the cultist. It was at most a light setback.)
It’s a great idea for riddles to secret doors to fit a context, like a diary entry, a letter or scribbles on a map. For example: - Harberd told me to install a secret passage in the bookshelf in room 3, but Elmyer gave specific instructions to make sure Harberd can’t find it. I arranged the authors alphabetically and tied the bookshelf’s key to the book with his name on! (Players might not know which is room 3, or who Harberd or Elmyer are, but by looking on the bookshelf they can find a series of clues, such as the only book series where the abbreviated name is never shown, for example) - Dear Mr Alkabrizz, please ignore my previous letter regarding the star-shaped room. I had not realised that you’d been as sneaky as to hide the fifth point behind a collapsing wall, but please, in future, stick with my instructions TO THE LETTER. It took my servants a week to figure out what you meant by the door opening being hidden ‘a bit too on the nose.’ Kindly, Mayor Gollis (The hint being that the hidden wall is in a room that looks like a star with one of the points removed, with that hidden door opening by finding a painting of Mayor Gollis and pushing a button on the painting’s nose)
The DM knows my rogue's standard technique for tossing a room (no, not that, get your mind out of the gutter!!) while the party leave her to it and stand guard. Consequently the DM can describe the search and insert any outcomes as desired, leaving it up to me to indicate how she deals with the results or investigates any anomaly. The thoroughness of the technique she has developed is a consequence of both her nature and her commitment to improving her skills, which justifies the WIS/INT and expertise bonuses to her Perception and/or Investigation rolls.
The (I'm guessing the spelling) Escherian doors mentioned... are there actual examples IRL or online other than the Labyrinth movie of these in action?
I once had a player who found a complex secret door mechanism purely by RP, so i gave him advantage on the check and he rolled double 1. So I described how he unlocked the mechanism but the hinges were eroded and the entire massive stone door fell ontop of him. xD
The "un-secret" door (more of a puzzle than a secret): A door in the side of a passage is plainly visible (and open), but a large hidden pressure plate in front of it causes it to slam shut the moment any weight is placed on it. The party must find some way of bridging over the pressure plate to access the door. If you want to be a real stinker, place something nearby that looks as though it will solve the problem, but actually cause problems of its own if taken carelessly. Examples: a long bench that turns out to be a mimic, or some heavy timbers leaning against a wall that are actually propping up the unstable wall.
It's fine to have traps with passive perception if they made a character with the specific purpose of having it be super perceptive, but making a few tweak's to make it into a small puzzle or a skill check even makes for it to feel a tad more interactive
I love the fact that you're stressing how important the logic behind secret passages is, just like you did with traps. It makes DMing feel like actual learning and that's awesome. Kudos
Looks like having a sentient creature in a sci-fi setting, most creatures don't wake up one day and just "oh hey I'm sentient creature, I do people things", a creature needs to evolve to have sentience, and things don't evolve for no reason, especially sentience
Secret doors can also change with time. Moss grows on stone, not illusions.
Its an interesting take on the first type of secret doors (the camouflaged one)
Oooh, taking this one.
Thinking of how a wizard might counter this, the illusion might mirror another section of the wall to match... until the barbarian nicks the sample with his axe and a mirrored scuff mark shows up 15ft away.
What’d be evil, is have a secret door like this; that leads to a trap
@Insanity 576 last time I suggested this, people hated me... but have a long hallway leading to the outer wall of a tower. Open up a doorway and cast Silent Image on the inner edge of the hallway (giving the illusion of a grand hall) and Silence on the other side.
During a battle, the druid crit failed a ranged attack at an enemy. The wall behind him had a secret door. So I said "roll another attack, please." she rolled a natural 20, so of course her arrow hit the switch to open the door. It was a total improvisation on my part to put the switch there too, but it worked in the moment, and the players loved it.
Servant/workman passageways. As an idea for why there be concealed doors. Also for theatrics. A musician's balcony to a grand hall might have a door that blends in with a decorated wall but is easy to open.
LOVE this. Super practical, and adds a dose of world-building at the same time! Definitely worth adopting. :)
Those servant passageways have real world counterparts too, good idea for sure!
And shoot crossbows down from!
Or if a theater's entire stage is trapped or otherwise not a valid path for traversing it's length, perhaps the door they're looking for leads to the catwalk? Just spit balling here.
It's good to keep in mind the "tech level" of the dungeon's architects. Most civilizations or designers can make a door that looks like a wall, if they can build a wall in the first place. Anyone can plaster over a passage. It takes a great deal of mechanical knowledge and resources to build a secret door unlocked by machinery in another room. And it takes some magical knowledge/power to create an illusory wall or warded passage.
I like how the 'Timer-Door' works, like a lever on one side the castle opens a door/gate on the other side and the party has to run fast to go through in time. That really fits in horror settings.
Alternatively, if the distance between the switch and the door is too great to cover, the party may be forced to split up, with some of them going through the door, and at least one of them staying behind to open the door for the rest of the party (assuming either they don't have teleportation magic that can get them back to the rest of the group, or there's something preventing the PCs from teleporting through the doorway). If they leave one party member behind, do they leave more than one behind so that person doesn't have to fend entirely for themselves should trouble find them? Do they maybe risk sending only one person through the door, so that if there's danger on the other side, only one of them has to worry about getting out? There's a lot of ways the timer door can create decision making opportunities for a party.
Another fun secret door is the lost to renovation door. In places that are hundreds of years old it is expected for some construction at a later date to change the floor plan. Rooms get sealed shut when no longer in use then forgotten and the door is plastered up for a new fresco or fancy wood paneling.
I have used this one before, the best part is that you can have interesting 'treasures' within such places. A good example is valuable building materials that might now be hard to come by. For example: Take a ruined castle or mansion, in such places the use of valuable metals in decoration or other uses might have been common when the building was whole. Now hundreds of years later all of that will have been salvaged/looted by anyone with access to the site. Discovering a sealed room that was forgotten during a renovation might now contain off cuts of such things, what the renovators considered trash not worth salvaging could now be valuable treasure to the adventurers.
Depending on the personality of the inhabitants, such places could even be full of the last decorations (statues, pottery, artworks, chandeliers etc) that someone decided they hated and wanted removed. Renovators might have come to the storage room and decided that since no one had used this stuff in decades, no one would notice if the just covered the door with a new wall and moved on. No matter the timeline, people are inherently lazy and will often take the easy way out of situations.
The BBEG; "There's no way she'll find the secret entrance."
PC; "There's a doormat here that says secret entrance!"
Don't worry, the charmingly awkward NPC love interest we met last session is bravely fighting the BBEG in hand-to-hand combat! He's so courageous ❤❤💙
Haha! That's from "Megamind"! Great movie.
One way to approach the illusory passage idea is to consider the potential of players finding it accidentally. The party walks into a room and in the opposite wall there is a doorway that looks like the rest of the wall unless perceived from a specific angle. You can have hints that guide players to a specific landmark in the room where they will see ths doorway. Example:
There is writing on the wall outside saying "those who seek knowledge will find the passage" and the party walks in to find some treasures, miscellaneous furniture, but importantly a bookshelf. Whoever stands at the bookshelf can look at the wall and see the doorway that was previously disguised.
They would pull every book off that shelf, and in extreme cases, spend hours reading every book then reading it agains while looking for secret (invisible to normal vision) magic runes in them.
I'd totally forgotten about the 'lever opens a door you can't see' version of a secret door, thanks! The Interdiction Door is also a really good idea I haven't used before.
Here's to another year of fantastic tips for games!
There is also a difference from a Secret Door (usable by a select few) and a Concealed Door (usable by every one that knows). Concealed Doors are used to prevent breaking up architecture or furniture details. (Door in a panel behind row of Choir Chairs) that aren't readily visible. Or the passage behind tapestries.
I think the best way to assist players who struggle with puzzles is to have them chase someone into a room without an obvious exit. Then seed in some clues. They know the door has to be there, or at least something
Like they're chasing a bad guy, and then he turns the corner..
They follow, only to discover it's a "dead end".
hmmm
Oh, that's brilliant
one of my players was investigating a church library. he had a really good perception on the room itself and I described how he stopped dead in his tracks and was confused about the layout of the stacks. and he went through a good investigation of the bookcase that was hiding a stairwell up to the offices of a midboss.
never said anything about a secret door at first, just described his confusion and let him work it out
There are little jokes in the art that I adore! The references to "This is not a pipe" and "The rumor come out" were a couple of my favorites.
2:54 Oh I love this slide.
Glowing runes that can only been seen in the light, because players always have darkvision, so reward the use of torches/lanterns. lol
I believe dark vision doesn't allow you to see color. So passage instructions could be color coded.
@@kerbalairforce8802 depends on the darkvision
@@TheSleeplessSleeperAgentall dark vision prevents you from seeing color
@@voidfloof I am aware, but different racial dark visions give you different sets of colors like shades of grey or red
I had a secret door that is attached to an illusion trap. Where the door behind them closed when they walked into a small dead-end room. Illusory water starts to pour into the room and the players have to perceive the water is an illusion. Those who don't take small increments of cold damage as the rounds advanced for them honestly wait it out. If they were able to perceive the water to be fake they stop taking cold damage in the end.
This was set in an abandoned monastery where throughout the whole complex up to this point was "Mind over matter."
So excited for the new video. Something I recommend is adding some furniture to the room you do your recording in. I can hear the echo bouncing around and some padding or heavy curtains can help take that out and absorb the extra sound
^^^ THIS
Unless it's not a bug, it's a feature?
I had a secret door in a dungeon I made. It was activated on a statue behind the book-shelf in the library. I added a note in the jail that someone the goblins had captured was taken there to read some dwarvish runes on the stone wall further in.
9:04 changed the way i think about secret doors, tysm my dm'ing life has changed 😭
a personal favorite of mine is a callback to the game Riven, where a door hides a passage when it is opened just by obstructing it. it would be a temporary measure in a lot of cases, as the secret is revealed once the entryway is more closely inspected or once people decide to just close the door as they take their time to investigate the room.
Good to see the channel is still active!
10:00 this is super great advice for more than just secret doors. It can be applied in so many ways. I just wish I was smart enough to have thought of that...
This is something the older DMGs used to have as basic information for all DMs. Unfortunately the newer editions of D&D (4E/5E) have dumbed the game down by a lot and lost so many of these helpful hints. If you have any tough questions about RPG related things, feel free to ask on such videos. Myself and others will be happy to share our decades of experience with new DMs. World Building and campaign construction are my specialty area's, but DMing in general is something I've been doing for many many years.
So happy y'all are back ! Great video.
Had a illusionary secret door half way down a well with clues it was there, after running multiple parties though it someone finally found it.
One use for secret doors in larger dungeons can be to bypass previously explored areas. Kinda like how Dark Souls will have those doors that can only be opened from the other side, but doing so creates a shortcut so the player doesn't have to trudge back through previously explored areas. In this case, you have secret doors that are obvious from the other side, but that the players probably won't find till they've actually explored the dungeon and reached said other side.
Can't use these if your players are clever - they'll find a way through from the "wrong" side every time. (Do I smell adventure hook for side-quest?)
@nunya buisiness Not if you're a clever DM and anticipated what the party might try and design the door so it can't be defeated those ways. Also, fake doors (i.e. dead ends) and wandering monsters will eventually keep players from lingering too long trying to get through a 'stuck' door.
@@JMcMillen If you've got the right gaming group, it's 4-8 heads to one - they'll find something you missed. If they've got the right DM, it'll be the last time it gets missed on accident instead of as plot device or world building.
"I'm going to start tapping the walls, my "worthless" tremor sense will show me what segments aren't connected to the floor." (and that's why the ventilation for drow villas is a small air gap between the floor and wall - they think of paranoid crap like that)
"Fook tha door, Imma dwoorf, Imma gonna take the frame apaht" (This is why Dwarf made vaults have adamant sheathing over the stonework, inside and out - they think if they could do it, so could anyone)
"Out der way, shrimpie - I goliath charge the door with a shoulder ram" (Flying species don't always put their exits at ground level..... *snicker*)
@nunya buisiness That's why the first few they encounter should be immediate dead ends (ex. caved in rooms). Plus, those attempts to open the door take time and make noise, which will certainly attract monsters to the area. Eventually the party should learn that it's a waste of time and resources, and that there is either an easier way into the room they'll discover later or that there is nothing beyond the door worth getting at.
@@JMcMillen Mine learn that hidden doors & secret passages mean there's something worth hiding, and the more it's worth hiding the more dangerous the search is going to be.
"You do realize you are attempting to break into the vault of Grimtooth, the Troll who literally wrote the book(s) on traps, right?"
They were furious to find out he's not the kind of Troll with warts & regeneration - he's the kind of Troll that traps every footstep of a 12 floor dungeon, all leading to a room empty of everything but a note reading "the real treasure was the traps we tested along the way - GT" (after two years of learning that traps mean somethings worth stealing....)
Bypassing traps is such a good idea, I never would have thought of it.
thanks! ive been a tad bit lost when comes to making rooms more interesting, now i realize that the door can set the scene rlly well!
I caught that "the rumor come out" joke. Nicely done
"All secret doors have a purpose."
Nethack: Are you sure about that?
Extremely useful and informative video for dungeon Masters, definitely saved this one and shared it on my server. I'm surprised you don't have hundreds and hundreds of thousands of subscribers, your videos are always very well done and incredibly informative.
Wow, welcome back! We missed you. And a great topic to start off the new year.
something else that can be helpful is outside of games things. like have someone or ppl who arent in the game go through the scenes to see if its too hard/easy ect, or after the session talk with players about things they missed to better understand how they see things and they get better ideas what to look for with you. gotta keep in mind YOU know all the details so its a different experience for you then for them.
Perfect timing for my heist session tomorrow!
my campaign would be alot worse without your channel. def gonna use this for my next session
Good to see yall! Great video; traps, puzzles, and secret doors are all things I want to use but it is an art to do it in ways that are natural, engaging, and meaningful.
Another great video! Have y'all ever thought about making a published adventure or dungeon using some of the principles you elaborate on in the vids? Think my favorite one is the Metroidvania video.
i'm SO glad you're all still posting you're my favorite dnd youtube channel
All players, DM's and content creators should be aware that wizards is circulating a change to the OGL that will allow them to take and republish the content produced by other creators (Including YOUR DM) without compensation. Don't do anything that requires you to sign on with OGL 1.1.
#OpenDND
Master the dungeon, good video. These are all fantastic tips for DMing. I once built a dungeon that was a structure where no door led to the same place from both sides. Split the party almost instantly when someone found a hidden passage lol
Always happy to see a helpful video from you guys! I will always use your tips and advice to help me in my DM skills.
8:36 I have firsthand experience with this. I've been running The Wild Beyond the Witchlight, and one of the plothooks is that something was stolen from each of the players and they're trying to get it back. A while back the players found the place, but while the adventure offers all sorts of clues to all kinds of extra secrets, there was zero clues for where or even how to get past the secret. The players were ready to leave the place when the session ended and I had to do a lot of hinting and nudging to make them have a second look. This is only making me more involved with adjusting prewritten content
I've been DMing for years and have always struggled to implement secret doors. This video was mindblowing for me, had me going 'ohhhhhh' at several points at the genius obviousness of your suggested implementations. Passive perception for hints and active perception for fully revealing the door is brilliant, as is the system of setting DCs based on information already known. I have new hope about including secret passages in my adventures!
Oh heck I forgot I subscribed to this channel, what a wonderful way to start the new year!
This gave me many new ideas... Thanks!
Always look forward to your videos, thank you!
This channel has the most inspirational and applicable D&D advice and I love it
Yes! Welcome back!!!
Great video! So glad to see you again :)
Here's an Idea - "The Emperor's new door." It basically follows the narrative of the Emperor's new clothes. This door is only visible to those with an int score above a certain amount. It could be made by a prideful mage thinking no one could be smarter, for laughs the int requirement might even be a low 12. You can make it so only those that meet the requirements can enter the room even if the others know it to be an illusion then make a huge empty room with a single chest to challenge the players inside. They would be left thinking what would happen to them if trouble finds them without their usual Brute force tank buddies.
This is the best tear down of secret doors I've ever seen. I love traps and doors and features that make sense and reward players for figuring them out, or reinforce the world verisimilitude when revealed. I can't wait to see the rest of your videos. Thank you!
So glad to see ya back!
Thanks for the video!
Hope you're having a great year thus far!
Love this! Thanks for another great video with clear and thorough explanations!
This channel is so good, very good explanations and examples!
Glad that you're back, and with a great video as well!
Missed y'all! Another solid discussion of a specific topic
Very informative video! Now my players are going to have some more exploring to do!
Just wanted to say hello, and I am loving your channel. I’ve been role playing since the 1980’s and love finding so many new content creators. One of the things i love about this genre of gaming is how many different ideas, thought processes and just cool ways people have to get or keep players involved or interested in the game. Keep up the great work and I look forward to catching up with your videos. Thanks for the work you put in to make games better or just showing a different way of looking at things.
The players cannot roll above a 2 to safe their lives? Don’t care, give them the secret door or treasure anyway. Then hint at a much larger mystery or bounty that they failed to uncover. They could just return at a later stage and look again, hooked forever! 😊
„Adjusting the DC on the fly“ is, imo, exactly why my group of nerds dethroned their original DM and switched over to my game. He ran a game that was very much ‚by the book‘, no deviations allowed. But discovering secrets and failing forwards is much more fun!
Above mentioned guy is arguably the ‚best‘ player at my table when it comes to roleplay and him sitting on the other side of the screen definitely elevated PC interactions as well as immersion within the world and my NPCs. I assume stepping down from the forever DM position was to his liking as well 😂
Happy new year!
New vid, _absooorb._
I would love to receive issues of that Secret Doors of Faerun magazine.
Also super glad to see a video pointing out that the logic of why a secret door exists should be a hint to the players to look for one.
I wonder what hint I can give to players in terms of single-use secret doors besides something like: "This wall looks diffferent" or "The wall is slightly craked" ?
Passages only accessible via magic, like Shape Water/Ice, Mold Earth or similar cantrips, might be a bit much, but I like that idea. Just to make some specialised cantrips work. All depends on the group, of course. If no one has those spells, no need to add them unless you give the players an option to do so, like magic items.
Finding doors could also be done by roleplay, aye. If someone says they lean against a specific wall or does something super special, they should be rewarded.
Yay! New video!
Happy New Year!!
"The rumor cone out" was a hilarious bit to add. It made the video more enjoyable for me (:
I really enjoy your content and how you look at and run things in D & D. I hope you keep making more content.
Haven't used it, because it hasn't come up in any campaigns I've run, but watching this video makes me think of a couple novels I've read in a political intrigue setting where the Ruler's sleeping chambers are hidden behind a secret door as a safeguard to assassination attempts.
I put a mission critical item behind a secret door once. You can do it just realize you have to change the parameters of success and failure. A group of baddies was in the next room with a hidden door between them and the party. I gave the PCs an investigation check, if they rolled well they found the secret door and surprised the enemies. If they rolled mediocre they found the door but didn’t surprise the enemies. If they rolled poorly they made too much noise searching and the bad guys opened door surprising the party. In all cases that door was opening and there would be a fight. The roll just determined which side had an advantage.
Don’t hide content behind a skill check. The door must always be opened.
This video came at the perfect time! My players are about to dungeon crawl through a wizard school library, and I wanted some secret doors and passages
Best channel for dungeon design! I can’t wait to make a giant dungeon that any party I play with could confront if I forgot to prep 😂
Welcome back!
I’m building my first campaign right now and your videos have been super helpful
A main setting of my current campaign is a giant fey labyrinth, so I am getting to use secret and puzzle doors very frequently.
Now I want to make a magic secret door that looks like a painting of a tunnel or similar, like wile e coyote
Ooh great video! I’m just about to sit down and draw up a dungeon for a little adventure I’m running this weekend, so the timing is perfect! Now onto that traps video…
You could also make a secret door that is not hidden at all but can take the players to a different location depending on the actions taken prior to opening the door. For example the door the players opened when they first met at a tavern (or other place the party could first meet) could lead to said place normally, but take the players somewhere completely different if specific actions are taken when opening the door.
These videos give me life and secret doors are legitimately one of the things I look forward to adding whenever I make any homebrew dungeon. Really glad that I had the right idea before watching.
Bit Clichè probably? I was wondering about a secret door being a portal disguised as a mirror.
Secret mirror door: completely open oval set between two rooms that are decorated as mirror images. A blade-thin rim around the oval to maintain the illusion of a flat mirror inset to the wall (dex save dc8 with adv to avoid the "trap"). For bonus points, put these two rooms a little time after a vampire encounter. "Uh oh, we're not in the mirror"
This is super helpful! Thankyou!
I tend to use secret doors a lot in my dungeons, but only for optional treasure/magic items they could use. Here's a couple that I used: One was inside of a crypt. The party enters into a room with a number of statues, and urns - big and small. One of the statues is turned at a sharper angle than the others. Upon closer inspection, the floor has deep scratch marks seemingly from the statue being moved back and forth from against the wall to away from it and vice versa. One of the players searches the wall for any levers or switches, and finds none, but DOES discover that one of the bricks is very loose and the mortar around it has fallen away from being pulled out multiple times. She pulls the brick free and reaches inside the shallow hole, finding a lever inside and pulling it. The wall beside them rises up and the party finds TREASURE!
I have also used the "wall that looks like a normal wall" secret door. In the world, it was an old dwarven trick where they'd use something akin to paper mache to create thin walls and put wood boards in front of it so it looked like a rock wall behind some support beams in a mine. Any sharp object would cut right through it with enough force. The players managed to find this out based on a clue in a journal they found that was written in dwarven. Thankfully for them, the cleric player knew the dwarven language even though she wasn't a dwarf. The journal said, "Where ever you see your face, it is near." The players would find playing cards printed with dwarven kings, queens, jacks, and jokers scattered throughout the mine, so when they found one, the players would cut through the wall and find small caches of treasure inside.
One thing that I like to do is put very well-hidden secret elements in a room, and then only once they've cleared the scene will they be informed about the secret. Then they go back to the dungeon with new eyes, and potentially new monsters and a new owner.
One example was that I hid a macguffin behind a secret passage. They missed the passage despite my hints, and learned later what they missed. But the second time around, the dungeon was now populated by kobolds, some of which were geared up with armor and items that the PCs had previously left behind. But with their previous familiarity of the dungeon, they opened up their old maps and were able to plan around what they knew. Instead of exploring, they were planning a heist.
one of my favourite uses of a secret passage not mentioned here is *hidden convenience* it may just be a faster or secret way between two otherwise very separate rooms and can be used for tropes like *forbidden love*.
Welcome back! Another well done and thorough video! I just miss the old music though 🥺 new music sounds a little too low or feels like it can only be heard sometimes. I'm eagerly awaiting the next one!!!!
Hey, nice to see you back
Yoooooo, you're alive. I thought a mimic ate you, or something
I generally operate on the concept I learned watching enough Matt Colville: "It doesn't exist until they make it exist."
You can make a secret door pretty quick, all things considered. And they'll never know if you placed it there for their sake unless you make it obvious or outright tell them. You'll know they *want* the secret door if they even ask.
Everything exists in your campaign settings in a state of superposition. It is and isn't there and your job as the DM is to flip the switch on your quantum computer.
10:40
Graphs are good.
I like using secret doors for what I think of as the "Skyrim Locked Door". Basically, a shortcut after the boss fight or exploration or other objective is complete, and it's not secret from that side. The key difference from Skyrim's locked doors though, is that it's not a locked door that can't be opened, but a secret door that can be discovered. So, if they find it earlier, they can potentially bypass traps, guards, etc. and get to their objective quicker. And if they miss it, then they can use it later as a shortcut.
This gets even better if it's a location they'll return to later, as they might remember it, have left some mark to find it again, or even left it open (propped, destroyed, etc.). Which, at minimum, gives them more known options when returning, but potentially even an advantage to exploit.
While you may want to avoid campaign critical items or information behind secret doors, a potential exception to that is if instead of that being the only way the players can find said item/information, it's a way to access them early. They may even lack the context at the time of discovery to know why that information or item is important, but that early discover may give them a leg up in a later scenario or otherwise act as a clue that there's more going on than they first thought. Essentially, they can act like an optional plot twist that progresses the story if found, but doesn't halt the story if not. Otherwise, if the plot demands they need to go through a secret door, then the players need to be armed with the knowledge that the secret exists somewhere (overheard conversation, interrogation, notes, reliable rumor, etc), and either get clues on where to search, or tail a suspect to reveal said secret.
The sims 3 world adventures did a good job of using hidden doors. Most of the main paths were either unbidden or east to find. The trickier ones were for unnecessary but rewarding discoveries. If you just wanted to dash the quest you could get it done in a few minutes. If you wanted to explore every square, it would require lots of investigation, some trial and error, and in some cases multiple doors were ganged together. The fear of being discovered or attacked made investigating more than a chore
Seeing this video reminds me of an idea for an unusally complex book case door I had at one point. One book might be called a history of traps, and has to be removed first in order to safley open the secret door, another might be called a history of secret doors and has to remain on the shelf, the third would be called something like how to open secret doors and is removed in order to open the door. however if history of traps is not removed before how to open secret doors the room will try to murder you instead of opening the secret door.
Ok, using Labyrinth as a reference gets instant respect points.
3:41:POV you just saw your friend noclip into the backrooms.
This is going to be so helpful!! Thank you!!
I have had a case where the players were actively looking for a secret room they KNEW was in said room. (Bad guy went in, bad guy didn't come back out) They couldn't be 100% certain it wasn't magical in nature ofcourse but he was just a normal cultist, so they deduced it was more likely to just be a secret door or something along those lines.
They were correct but couldn't for the life of them figure out where it was in neither roleplay nor in roles. (it was under them. Basically a really well hidden trapdoor. Don't ask me why they never even thought about the floor...Maybe it was the lack of a carpet)
They were getting a bit frustrated and were just about to give up when one stated "God damn it! I throw my hammer onto the floor and walk out!" Obviously just wanting to make a light joke about his character being as frustrated as he was.
That was all I needed.
It ended up being one of the funniest sessions as this meathead of a barbarian made a "god damn it....Iahhh!" sound as the ground under him suddenly vanished as he fell down into the secret tunnel like a magician might disapear on a stage.
Sometimes, them failing doesn't mean they can't succeed..just..not in as graceful a way as they might have expected.
(As a little sidenote. Yes, they did NEED to find this secret hangout but if they really couldn't find it, they could have just stalked the place out, found one of the other several secret doorways or "interrogated" one of the cultist. It was at most a light setback.)
Yaya! New video!
It’s a great idea for riddles to secret doors to fit a context, like a diary entry, a letter or scribbles on a map.
For example:
- Harberd told me to install a secret passage in the bookshelf in room 3, but Elmyer gave specific instructions to make sure Harberd can’t find it. I arranged the authors alphabetically and tied the bookshelf’s key to the book with his name on! (Players might not know which is room 3, or who Harberd or Elmyer are, but by looking on the bookshelf they can find a series of clues, such as the only book series where the abbreviated name is never shown, for example)
- Dear Mr Alkabrizz, please ignore my previous letter regarding the star-shaped room. I had not realised that you’d been as sneaky as to hide the fifth point behind a collapsing wall, but please, in future, stick with my instructions TO THE LETTER. It took my servants a week to figure out what you meant by the door opening being hidden ‘a bit too on the nose.’ Kindly, Mayor Gollis (The hint being that the hidden wall is in a room that looks like a star with one of the points removed, with that hidden door opening by finding a painting of Mayor Gollis and pushing a button on the painting’s nose)
A good search of a room should not require perception checks, DM and player descriptions as the only interaction can be wonderful.
The DM knows my rogue's standard technique for tossing a room (no, not that, get your mind out of the gutter!!) while the party leave her to it and stand guard. Consequently the DM can describe the search and insert any outcomes as desired, leaving it up to me to indicate how she deals with the results or investigates any anomaly. The thoroughness of the technique she has developed is a consequence of both her nature and her commitment to improving her skills, which justifies the WIS/INT and expertise bonuses to her Perception and/or Investigation rolls.
The (I'm guessing the spelling) Escherian doors mentioned... are there actual examples IRL or online other than the Labyrinth movie of these in action?
I once had a player who found a complex secret door mechanism purely by RP, so i gave him advantage on the check and he rolled double 1.
So I described how he unlocked the mechanism but the hinges were eroded and the entire massive stone door fell ontop of him. xD
The "un-secret" door (more of a puzzle than a secret):
A door in the side of a passage is plainly visible (and open), but a large hidden pressure plate in front of it causes it to slam shut the moment any weight is placed on it. The party must find some way of bridging over the pressure plate to access the door. If you want to be a real stinker, place something nearby that looks as though it will solve the problem, but actually cause problems of its own if taken carelessly. Examples: a long bench that turns out to be a mimic, or some heavy timbers leaning against a wall that are actually propping up the unstable wall.
It's fine to have traps with passive perception if they made a character with the specific purpose of having it be super perceptive, but making a few tweak's to make it into a small puzzle or a skill check even makes for it to feel a tad more interactive