@@raffou24100its not an ult, it’s actually a basic ability. lantern on baptiste. mercy ult also heals through most damage, moira ult instant heals, ana gets a nano that buffs someone 10x stronger than rocket or mantis can buff, plus has the ability to anti preventing heals, only counterplay? kiriko with cleanse that makes the person invulnerable plus ult that lowers all her cooldowns. js cause they dont have something that makes you invulnerable doesnt mean the heals are not overpowered in that game😂 weird take
"Support ults dont need nerfed" mfs when C&D get their ult for the sixteenth time this fight Also, hot take, ults shouldn't be able to be CC'd. Or at least not 99% of them. Killed out of them, sure, go ahead, but stopped entirely by a web on a four second cooldown? No.
@@lynache6477 if they nerf support ults dps ults will be next. And dr strange. I’m just glad the novelty is wearing off so maybe we will get some more substantial balance changes.
Yeah this doesn’t work as long as ultimates like storm, Psy, Spider-Man, moon knight, and star lord remain in the game. These ultimates charge at 2800-3100 energy, require zero skill to execute, and have close to zero counterplay if not actually just zero counterplay in the case of storm. You want better support ultimates? We need better dps ultimates. Magik as “one of the worst ultimates in the game,” according to many people. Yeah, because everyone else is broken. All offensive ultimates in this game need to be like hers. 3700 energy should be the minimum for every dps ultimate in the game. Death blossom Esq “press q to win,” ultimates need to be reworked from the ground up. Bucky and Magik are the gold standard for how dps ultimates should function. They enhance their base kit and still require player skill to execute effectively. Storm is an example of one of the worst ultimate designs I’ve ever seen in a hero shooter or moba ever.
the ult system in this game is the most unbalanced part of it ngl, moon knights is glitched, defensive support ults are cracked, and storm charges hers WAY too fast. then some like spideys is stopped by a light sneeze despite charging at a perfectly fair rate for a stronger ult. it makes no sense to me that the weaker ults are the ones that charge slower
Or throw a Magneto ult on top of cloak. Instant kill after dash. Peni mines can also kill supports through ult like Mantis (or a badly placed Cloak dash), but more difficult.
The ending is so wild 😂 that’s why we missed OW1 in 2016, it was the same when mercy resurrected whole team and you needed to kill everyone again. Now it’s close to it in marvel rivals and everyone loves that. It definitely has to be fixed but are we sure we will not miss these times after 5 years? :)
Played a game yesterday where we banned Luna, cloak, and invisible woman. We had mantis Adam and they had mantis rocket. Was genuinely so much more fun and made the pace of the game a lot better. Could be a strategy since there aren't as oppressive of dps characters this season other than storm and maybe wolv.
I swear the Guardians supports are the only ones that don’t make me wanna end it all. The most of them need to be nerfed, especially Mr. and Mrs. *"US AGAINST THE WORLD"*
The only problem with this is when they play a character like storm, or any of the other duelist with easy to use busted ultimates, and your team has no reasonable way to survive it at all
I dont even think the ults are the issue. Its how insanely often they can be farmed. They definitely need to take a look at ult cost. But im also just being patient snd letting them cook, the devs are ex ow players mostly, so theyll remember goats. Hopefully they add characters that counter this meta. As a sue main, i often boop people out of support ults. Mr fantastic is underplayed too, he can knovk people around and out of them. A good magik can get pucks through ults, more effective combo characters to assinate the support thats ulting might be enough. Theres so many ways they can counter support meta, that isnt just nerfing them. Hopefully they find creative solutions, cause imo giving in to just blanket support nerfs would be repeating OW mistakes, where its a tug of war to balance everything, so it all gets nerfed, and than none of its fun
EXACTLY, the issue isnt the ult itself (mostly) its how fast it can be charged fighting a C & D that ults every 2 minutes isnt fun it doesnt even help mostly it just extends the fight and wastes everyones time even on attack where you want to be fast.
adding characters to counter is going to snowball into a bad situation. You don't add characters to fix problems because it will always create more problems. This shit needs to be flat out removed from the game. I've played plenty of games that do this and it has power crept everything into oblivion to where the devs are now starting to backtrack it all. Adding characters to combat bad mechanics is a BAD DESIGN philosophy that will not do what you think it will do. It will accomplish nothing. If you add something that is stronger than this, then that becomes a problem. Add something that is stronger than that, then that becomes a problem. You now have a full blown Overwatch situation where the devs are constantly nerfing and buffing shit over and over again. A Sue main lobbying for NO "blanket support nerfs", lol. Try playing into this instead of being a part of the problem and you'll see why it CANNOT exist the way it is currently. This strategy is NOT healthy for the game and layering powerful things over powerful things is just a stupid idea.
I feel like at lower ranks the comp is more of a hindrance to the team. Just played a plat match where we were losing for most of the round but as soon as one of the healers switched to dps we managed to turn the game in our favour and win.
2 healer ez to take down by diver and they keep yapping , 1 BP can ez mess up ur backline and u totally ez to lose a combat , most of people yapping because they lose agaist 3 sp team comp but when they win a game with 3 sp in their team they never say anything 😂😂😂
@@BaCo-rt8yyyeah one character who is agreed to be the most buggy one in the game can “easily” mess up the backline when nobody knows how to use their cc not to mention the most of those said supports can cc him through his ult,dash and spinning kick.spider man and venom don’t even have the damage output to kill one healer before they already healed themselves or went to their team you just suck at checking your surroundings.
In low ranks, just run MK and melt the supports for free. Obviously doesn't work in high rank but most people aren't there, they make the mistake thinking they can do the same stuff their favorite streamers do.
The ultimates are the only problem of the triple support comp, otherwise it's a triple support crutch. Sacrificing a DPS for a support isn't a downgrade solely because support ultimates are so overtuned
Now before anyone else points this out: Triple support accounts for around 20% of matches and has under 45% win rate, but the problem with it isn't that it's good, it's that it's popular enough to where you'll see if often while also being the most boring shit you'll ever play against. It's not a matter of climbing or winning the match, it's about your enjoyment of the game during the match. Shit's boring as fuck, no matter if i win or lose i don't care i don't wanna deal with it. Also. of anyone is confused on why streamers complain about it, it's because most of the top streamers are in t500, so ofc the teams will be more coordinated and have better game sense and awareness, so in those scenarios where it's possible to chain ults together, comm with your team that you're being dived etc. the comp is actually really strong, ofc it's not going to be as oppressive in our gold and plat lobbies or below.
If opponents wanna tank their lp just to do emotional dmg, let them, don't need to complain. You have 5~6 counters to choose for. There are plenty ways to one shot or burst sp. Heroes like Magik doesn't even need ult to burst. You just gotta hate it when it's on your team. It's cultural problem, not balancing problem. Edit: I just watched few top Jeff players also. Defensive ults are never a problem. Jeff can disrupt few entire gameplans and are very flexible (insane skill celling but also insane capabilities). Like his flankings alone already make enemy's strategists & half of dps miserable.
but if that is the case why are pro teams not running triple supports though, I still havent seen one pro team play it to success. I know pro teams and high elo randoms are very different, but I'm curious anyway.
ever heard of the story "there once was an old lady who swallowed a fly?" in other words introducing another element to fix a broken one that already exists just makes the problem worse. The solution is reworking ultimate's so that they either don't last as long or have reduced effect where they don't make your team immune to damage for 15 seconds. I suggest something like invisible woman works similar to rocket ult where you can damage it and remove the effect. A similar concept can be done with Luna and cloak and dagger. have them work like Storm where they have shield or increased health but not completely immune to damage.
Yeah, people want to add more features to the game that turn it into Rock/Paper/Scissors, rather than just nerfing what are clearly over-tuned outliers. It's the same exact issue that Overwatch eventually started to struggle with as the added more 'counter' characters to the game and it ultimately makes the game impossible to balance. Want to nerf the [Anti-Heal] Character? Well you'll need to rebalance *every* *character* they were designed to deal with, and also every character that was designed/buffed to deal with the [Anti-heal]. If you don't... Well congratulations; guess who's now free to be the *new* meta warping problem character. It turns into a massive balance treadmill with no end in sight and serves no purpose other than destroying the integrity of the game in the long-term.
I think Invis ult should be reworks to instead instantly grant shields to everyone inside it but remove the healing, so with enough damage you can still kill them
@ Honestly, if they tweak the charge needed for the ult to compensate that'd be a nice change. Helps keep support ults varied and doesn't remove agency by being yet another invincibility button.
There are already a lot of oneshots in the game (ults and regular abilites) that can kill supports through their ults. With more characters added to the game there will be more. People just complain that their "favorite" character isn't able to kill through support ults alone, and then complain instead of swapping. Also nobody mentions that typically when the enemy support ults, your own support answers with an ult of their own, and now both teams are in the fight for the same duration. I find that pretty much all streamer/high elo players that complain about triple support don't actually play a lot of support, and just cry that triple support counters their main (spidey mains anyone?). Not to mention that most of the game, people do not have their ults. So what are people doing during this time? Sucking their thumbs? All these streamers complain that support is op, but don't actually play it, what does that say?
@@roro372 no its not a joke, support players are braindead and just press Q when they're almost dying. it literally has a shit winrate dont know what these streamers are on about
@@xondeez757 Yeah, the main problem is that the streamers are literally in t500, so ofc the players aren't braindead, they comm they play relatively well together, etc. In lower ranks where people don't comm and the players have poor awareness it's obviously not going to be as oppressive or as coordinated as it is in t500.
The real problem is, why is there 3 ults (Luna, Cloak and IW) that do exactly the same. I have mainly played rocket this season (not a sup main btw) and I do well on rocket, having more heals than the other healers, not dying, reviving... But I always get asked to swap, just cause rocket's ult is not a stupid 20s infinite healing zone. They need to add variety on strategists ults, like OW Kiriko that gives attack speed and shit (dont exactly know what her ults does).
it wouldve been so cool if instead of just making another invincibility sphere for sue storm they maybe made it so that every 2 seconds or so the enemy team goes invisible for 1 second for a duration of 15 seconds or something (just spitting ideas out of my ass) but nooo they had to make luna part 2 because having 1 obviously wasnt enough
The annoying thing is - in principle the ults are very different but the sheer amount of healing they provide makes them all function as immortality zones.
Swear to God i hope people stop using the argument of "this only applies in high rank" its a fing comp game, eventually, everyone will do it to win. At first we say "ohh it's boring so noone wants to do it" or something like that but eventually, when people start getting mad losing to the strat, they also do the same and it just snowballs. Its not a high skill strat so anyone can pick it up and do it
I get what they're saying though an uncoordinated triple support comp is easy to walk through and lower ranks aren't coordinated at all. Especially solo q.
Dude, it has a lower win rate compared to 2-2-2 at all ranks, and for the tournament players, they say its worse. It's boring sure but it's not broken there's more than enough counters it
@vapesog232 to be fair, its kept in check in lower ranks/ solo cause 1. Its boring and most people are still in their "I'm that guy" dps phase lol 2. There's always 1 or 2 that are clearly forced to do it lol, i,e that dps or tank that you bully into switching so they are kind of clueless and ez to make panic ult. But get like 2 actual lord supports on the dont kill me ults and ya........ have fun
I've inadvertently discovered that because people get sooooo comfortable standing in their defensive ults that I can play Jeff, put a bubble trail that leads to an edge then ult and obliterate them for standing
Yeah really hoping mfs don't encourage the devs to just do the same patches overwatch did. Honestly though these devs I have faith in to fix problems like these in more creative ways than simple numbers adjustments
If netease listens to top 500 we will literally just be repeating overwatch again. Oh well, I’d like to know to jump ship early or not. Next patch will let me know if I’m even gonna bother with rivals going forward.
i played against 3 supp and it was hard but forcing them to ult then countering them is key, its not a problem from the game, its the players, i played with 3 supp and we somehow lost even when we counter every ult cuz their team is just better. (i am GM1)
I would like less charge for healing ults in general. Then nerf Luna and CnD ult charge time. Make Invis and Mantis healing ult give much less hps but keep similar charge time to now to differentiate them. Rocket and Jeff can keep their ult charge. Loki would need a special system.
@@MattLaine-k2b I honestly miss having to use my ult carefully in ow. In rivals it doesn’t matter as much because I can build it in 1 minute of fighting
I think they could help fix C&D by just, removing the AOE heal on the autos and just make it single target (or just raise the more broken support ult costs higher). Because it's what, 3700 points for C&D ult, 1 point per 1 hp healed, and she's healing in a big AOE with her Autos, Right click, and E ability. If your team is grouped up all being shredded, you can literally get your ult in like 20-30 seconds. It's honestly crazy. It's even hard to assassinate her with some characters like Magik because even if you do the combo extremely quickly, if she just starts autoing you, she heals herself due to the AOE, which gets her just high enough HP where she might live by switching to cloak and right clicking, which can keep her just alive long enough to get help from her team. This wouldn't be a problem if both her "safety abilities" (both her right clicks) weren't on a 12s cooldown when characters like Loki has his shift on a 25s CD, and swap on a 15s CD. Or Adam who's soul bond is on a 30s CD. She just feels like a drastically better healer than all the others.
While its rare to see but there are some teams comporised completely of one type. I had the privilege of being a part of them, one of them was all DPS, and another was all healers
Im not gonna lie there is something really funny about playing dps, seeing the enemy have a dive comp (spidey), switching to support and suddenly seeing the enemy team do nothing brings the game to a crawl
Yup its happened to me and I have three characters I normally play at gm1 now because of that. Spidey starting. Squirell girl into triple supp and namor to just stomp out basically any other comp
This is how it should be, the fact that the game let's you change your picks to counter the enemy's picks is a good thing. Some DPS main's just complain about it because they are unwilling to also swap.
As someone who mostly plays quick match, its rare to encounter a team with even two supports. However when a trip strat does pops up it can be a curve stomp, for either side.
@@randomt800kiddo2I play spidey(feel free to call me salty) and most if not all the team fights I’m in, going behind and flanking does not work due to the healers popping their outs and countering me. What’s even worse is that they don’t get punished for solo ulting because the ludicrous ult times let them go up to their team and still have a good 6 seconds left of it to win the team fight.
@@RN-pt2xk dps dives just arent very good on their own from what ive seen. you really need a fully committed dive comp with a cap and venom to make it work
Best way to counter this is going triple support and let one support be rocket, go either double tanks 1 dps or 1 tank 2 dps but one of the dps must be punisher. Punisher and rocket ult melts through any support ult easily.
Triple support isn't even good.. In EVERY rank, triple support has less than a 50% win rate. It's just annoying. And makes dive heroes specifically much worse. I do agree they should nerf support ults, but triple support really isn't as good as people act. Just annoying to play against. Even if you win, a lot of long and drawn out fights.
@Arctic37 I fully agree with this, the support ult i think needs nerf is C and D bc it builds way too fast. Every other support ult isnt as bad but i can understand why ppl have a problem with it.
That's because a lot of people don't know how to play triple support well, and it has a specific niche where it is op. The more people learn how to do triple support well and when the more it will become a problem.
There is some counterplay other than mirror. Wanda and mag are good to run against triple support but obviously wanda is only useful for team up and ult, her ult being able to pierce through the healing. Groot and Moon Knight help with it too, both ults combined and the fact mk ult is bugged right now for extra damage kills through support ults. I think thats pretty much it though. I def agree though that they generate ult soooo fast.
Wanda is not a real hero... Mag ult gets blocked easily by a good tank. Same with Iron Man. Groot and Moon Knight is the only reliable strat, but then again, Groot has infinitely slower ult recharge rate than supports do.
A potential fix could be more specific but OP teamups (like Venom/Spidey) that make or break that characters' kit. More options to choose from instead of just Sups
That's a terrible idea lol, just incentives counter picks lol. Having your character be useless because your team doesn't want to run the teamup would be really annoying
Hot take, I think they should keep support ults in place like it's right now. Honestly, even see top top gameplay like this game, I can see 3 supp become problem only when damage is not enough like with hela in your first game. Hela solo deal very little damage, so 3 sup just heal it instantly and you can't get peaks because if this, even iron man with gamma upgrade and right click could bait some ults and creates space and pics for you, but he switched to 3rd supp and makes game boring. So, my point is if play well 3 supp is not even the strongest combo, i mean punisher and racoon exist, and this is counter every support ult if they ult to counter together, dive comp like venom/spidey/iron fist or magik exist also, 3 support just easier because support role easier in general and more good players in this playerbase right now, I think we just need to wait to see people get actually good in dps role and the problem of 3 supp will be solved by itself
Most viable nerf to the triple support is by adding a reduction in ult charge gather for 3 or mkre of the same role being chosen. Meaning CND, Sue Storm, and Luna can't gather ult charge at their same average rate. It gets reduced because of he team in general is going to survive with the amount of healers.
no one is going to be the one to want to play 3rd dps healer or tank if you just get reduced ult charge for simply existing. may as well add role queue at that point
@DruudeOwns Least obvious triple support user. Role queue is not the end all be all, how about. Suck it up and just play the game, if there is 3 of the same role then all 3 of them without Ult are doing the same job, but with Ult they can do more by simply pressing a button. Take 3 dive DPS if they all get Ult charge at the same rate the way 3 support can, it's busted. This doesn't discourage people from playing the third role of anything if the only thing getting targeted is the ult. This just shows the problem clear as day, it's the rate that Ult can be gained.
You had the right idea at first. It should just be that ult charge is nerfed for the strategists with massive healing ultimates. There's a few other characters who could also do with a longer ult charge as well, particularly like moonknight and storm considering how strong their ultimates are.
@@_Don_king The thing is their ultimates *are* very counter able. There's even a tank as well as many other dps, as you mentioned Moon Knight. Who can easily counter those support ults. The problem is how fast they can be gained, not that they're particularly really strong. Luna, CND, Mantis etc. Their ult isn't much of a problem when nearly half of the dps will nullify that Ult with their own, and then some like for example Iron Man or MK. If they get it every team fight though, we still have a problem. And even if you nerf the ult charge for the individual strategists you will still see triple strategist, because now they'll just stack their ults back to back instead of all at once. Still causing the issue of nobody dying.
The problem is not triple supp, but the ult charge. FOR EVERYBODY . People love to complain about healers ult charge but forget about Storm, Psylock, Moon Knight etc. The game would still be problematic if they only nerf supp ult and these heroes still farm ult as quickly as they farm now 😅
Im a support main, and i do feel it's dumb that i can also solo ult to stall the paload and easily survive 6 people trying to kill me. Ive had my whole team respawn and win cause me doing that in overtime
I will laugh if they nerf strategists and then everyone starts complaining that there isn't enough strategist players. This is the first game I've played in a long time that wasn't an MMO where people actually pick healing characters of their own volition.
Hot take. I personally feel like the reason triple support feels unfun is because we trade ults to live. Instead of temporarily giving up the advantage and leaving the fight the current player base just opts to trade ults to stay immortal every single fight. Then it just becomes a fight for who has the most support ults. Say you are running 3 dps and the enemy is running 3 support. Why not use that extra dps ult to bait out the extra support ult? Or maybe the tank baits it out so that the ults become an even playing field. If you don’t choose to fist fight and trade ults and back up, stacking ults upon ults to stay immortal longer wouldn’t happen. An Ult gives you a temporary advantage in space so why fight them when they have that advantage? That said I’m just a Diamond 2 player and I am still far from the rank Necros is at. But I have definitely seen people just default to fist fighting in enemy support ults when there literally isn’t much reason to. Just back out a bit then come back with more resources and more ults than the enemy team.
no this is a full brainer, people arent utilizing their ults and just want that full kill streak with it, sometimes using your ult to bait others is the way to go. this is coming from a gm player
@ yeah I feel like this is just what is happening. Offensive ults are so strong and so powerful that they can wipe teams so people always wanna seek that high of a team wipe. Support players just hold it to counter your ult and then your support counters their ult so on and so forth. During that fist fight since no one died everyone is just refilling ult charge since they are in combat anyways making it so the next cycle just comes up faster. Other comps can definitely win out against triple support comps and I have seen data show that triple support comps don’t even have a higher win rate compared to the traditional 2 2 2 which is kinda wild thinking how many people find that triple support kills the game.
@ I think fist fighting each other might also be just contributing to that problem. Usually you’d expect people to back off when an ult is used, like say a Hela ult people would run for cover and disengage from combat. But with the existence of defensive ults players have come to expect the defensive ult to be a crutch to stay alive and continue combat by trading ults. Usually this isn’t an issue but then when you have multiple defensive ults and 1 minute 2 minute long combat segments where no one dies, ult just charges the whole time. Everyone is charging ult but no one is dying repeating the shitty cycle. Did you know that 2 2 2 has the highest win rate out of all comps? Did you also know that triple support comps hover around 46% win rate? The comps aren’t that bad just people find it frustrating to play against. Just look up the stats at RivalsMeta. I feel if people interacted with support ults a bit more critically and not default to the easiest most mindless option of trading ults every single time the issue would solve itself.
You’re calling out strategist main while you are a duelist main complaining that strategists are OP. You’re saying that role queue won’t be needed and that DPS heroes are more fun therefore must be the main picks that people want, well what that does is make people fight for the DPS role, making matches horrible because everyone wants to damage rather than heal. It’s very common in games to make the”damage dealer” OP and that costs players struggling in draft, creating a canon that soon requires role queue. CND, mantis and loki copying those are easily shutdown by Magneto ult, Ironman and scarlet can burst anyone. Punisher out damages any supp ults other than CND (when her ult is stacked). Moonknight shut them down as well, and incorporating groot ult with MK, Namor one shots as well.
Bro unironically mentioned Scarlet Witch and Iron man as a counter lol Just takes a CnD with a brain or a strange or magneto and thos guys arent doing anything
My monkey brained idea: the game balances strategist ult charge based on whether or not there's more than 2 strategists in the game. if you have more than 2, strategist ult charge is nerfed by some amount, enough to the point where it's very hard to stack multiple ults in a single teamfight. or perhaps make healing from different sources give diminishing returns. 2 sources of healing = 90% effectiveness, 3 sources = 80% or something like that. this would make triple support still an option with more damage focused characters like adam and mantis
Issue is though, that ultimately it only hurts supports that don't bring invincibility. If for whatever reason you run 3 supports you become even more reliant on having defensive ults to make up for the healing reduction; As well as, characters with already weak healing like Adam ultimately only serve to weaken the rest of their team rather than elevate it.
I think having role passives will just make the game worse imo. It adds another factor to the game that you need to keep track and balance around. I see where you're coming from tho... And I also lowkey dislike these seasonal buffs they give characters for the same reason. Lets say people want to nerf Magik, who has a 15% dmg increase this season, so they nerf her numbers. Then the next season rolls around and now she is nerfed + doesn't have her 15% dmg increase, so she's terrible. In my eyes, passives like these just complicate things and add a layer to balance that really shouldn't even be there. I think the issue with your latter part about different sources of healing giving diminishing returns is a matter of ELO. If I read it right, it sounds like you are saying that if you ulted as Luna, its 100% effective, but then if you ult as Mantis at the same time, both healing sources are going down to 90%. If your team is coordinated enough you just do one ult after the other so its always 100% effectiveness. Now if you mean that in general the ults do less healing/charge rate based off the amount of healers, maybe that could work. But like I said before, personally, I would rather they not add an additional aspect of balance. Plus I believe you would need to make ults less frequent for DPS too...like how Overwatch did it. They have nerfed ultimate regen across the board early in Overwatch's lifespan as players got better and would get their ults in a minute. Maybe that would be more healthy at the cost of some op hero fantasy being lost. This is also a matter of variety from a design perspective. I absolutely hate how all the supports have zen ult. They need more support ults with skill expression or just different part of a kit. I think Overwatch does this very well- no one has an ult exactly like Zen's. Lucio gives overhealth, Moira is transferred into a beam/does damage, Mercy can heal everyone but she can also move around a lot and die to a DPS, Illar/Baptiste are offensive in nature, I guess the closest is Lifeweaver tree, but even that can be destroyed instead of coming from the player but you get the point. I really really really want them to create more inspired, unique ults that aren't just pressing a button with insane value. And ik some people will talk about DPS ults but I think those are different except for Moon Knight/Storm. People complain about Psylocke, but really her ult isn't "insta value" if you have a Loki clone or a bubble, her ult can do nothing and be shut down. Her ult is best for solo targeting imo. There is Storm but hers is easy to notice at least, and yeah you would need to nerf her ult charge if you nerf support ults since its the only direct counter. Then Moon Knight is just terrible, its insta value, insta death, without any sort of counter. That needs nerfs hard. Ok I yapped way too much, Ig I wanted to vent my frustrations a bit and also give my take on your idea. Which was more personal preference of not adding passives rather than a critique of the idea you laid out, sooo I think its a fine idea! Just, imo, not healthy for the game in the long run and so should be avoided. If there was any passive I would like it would be passive regen outside of combat.
Aren't there ways to counter this other than matching the comp? You can ban supports or play guys like iron man, magneto, groot/moonkight combo ult works as well to actually kill through these ults. and I've seen how useful it is when a cloak and dagger applies vulnerability to a luna snow ulting. Tho i agree that at least the rate of ult charge that supports have need to be lower
Yea, there are several ways to counter, necro complained only because his character pools didn't have one of them（magik, wolverine kind of, but spidy, bucky, bp, psylock, mr. fantastic literally do nothing)
There's only a couple ways to kill through support ults, not as many as people like to make out, only 2 or 3 of those are consistently viable and all of them are countered by the two most common tanks... Strange and Magneto
The Magento on every team shits on Iron man because he can easily absorb your ult with his or block it with 1 of 2 shields that will guarantee the target survives. Groot ult with moon Knight means you are forced to use to ults to their 2 and its very inconsistent to get a good groot ult. Iron Man also just enables supports to farm ult faster because he outputs a lot of AOE dmg that us slow so they will just perma heal through you.
I don't know if it makes sense but what if. The more supports you have in the team, the less heals and slower the ult recharge they have? Would that work or is it still ridiculous?
Best way to solve it is probably to reduce the ult charge strategists receive when damaging enemies. This way the other strategists are gonna find it difficult to charge their ultimates while another ultimate is already healing your entire team.
@@1234macro not bad idea, my only worry is adam or mantis that rely on damage... I prefer just nerf problematic character ult rate... could be same way little less ult rate from healing and decent decrease on damage
Does anyone else notice the concerted effort by a few players who play together and make content to alter the game in the way they want, that supports the characters and playstyles they want? If the dev team and playerbase are foolish enough to fall for these obvious and desperate appeals to nerfs instead of adapting, we can welcome this game to the OW graveyard. Triple support largely came about not for ults but to counter many of the braindead dive comps that would desperately try to zerg a strategist to auto win a team fight. Coincidentally, this streamer plays exclusively dive characters. Triple support has less of a win rate than 2 2 2 and is overall less successful. So far, we have a video from Bogur, and now this one. I'm guessing WhyAndrew will be dropping his next.
dont care. shits boring and frustrating its like playing a game where people have godmode toggles then when you try to dive anyway, supports have 30 ways to peel for themselves and others
Dawg y’all need to stop basing stuff off Win rates. Triple support is highly popular in higher ranks & guess what? If two teams going against eachother go trip supp then numbers and % become detrimental. All we ask is to make ult charge not so fast & perhaps be a little more creative when creating ults for supports.
@@Patek.01 It's frustrating to get dived by a character that has the highest mobility in the game and can escape 7 times out of ten if he is his brain works. Yet somehow, people adapted to that, and one of those adaptations was running triple support. Your frustration is your own personal issue. It shouldn't affect game balance.
Suggestions: - Future supports provides less healing and more of other utility. Such as stuns, Crowd control, damage buff, etc. - Have a character that inflicts Anti heal to the opponent. This can limit the amount of healing someone can get (Even from health packs). - Very simply make the Ult charging time longer so the amount of downtimes are much lower.
Im curious on how they will fix this with no role que. I do think your on the right track though with tuning up the defensive ultimates. I was curious also when we would get a anti heal character(s). Such as since johnny blaze uses fire they ciuld make the characters that use flames induce a healing reduction on burning characters.
It’s not hard. Defensive ults should be severely nerfed, except maybe mantis because you can kill through it if you just hard focus someone. Nobody dies ults were a bad idea
Just played a game in that symbiotic map. When I tell you their Susan legit ulted 1 minute in. Before I (as a strange) (frontline) even touched the point. They had triple support so you can assume what was coming next. The fix to this triple heal bs….. don’t do more damage than your enemy. Simply walk them down and have your healers lock in.
I think all ult charge across the board (every role) could be reduced by like 80% and it'd make the game a lot better. More about character to character interaction and less about exchanging ults every single fight.
This was my problem with people saying Role Que shouldn’t be a thing. I’m not saying add it in, but there should be a cap of 3 per role bare minimum in ranked. It may be triple support Meta rn, but one day we’ll get teams going 2 Vanguard, 3 supports, and a Loki for defending maps. Once it hits overtime the Loki will just ult the best DPS ult they can get and clear house
So! My take as a support player Get more oneshot ults into the game, like the magneto cancer ball There Pick oneshot ults into triple support and q as soon as they q to win the game
Honestly this. I also feel that so many people refuse to experiment in methods to one-shot healers through their ults. That isn't to say support ults aren't a bit much right now, I say as a support player, but there are quite a few ways to burst them to death that people seem incredibly reluctant to implement. B.Widow + Mantis: One Shots healers through ult. Hawkeye : One Shots healers through ult. Magik: Can combo healers to death in their ults. That isn't to say any of those options are easy, or that this is the exhaustive list of options, but I feel like people need to explore the options that exist in the game rather than sticking to the dogma of the 'current' meta while simultaneously complaining that there is no answers to 3/support. Also, hot take incoming, almost all the issues with 3-support stem from Luna. She's clearly the best healer; it's not even close. There are no weak points in her kit; She has: the highest movement speed, best support ult in the game, very good healing and damage, the best hard CC (on support), one of the hardest to hit models in the entire game ( due to her general shape and animations ), her Namor team-up is extremely strong, *and* she's tied for the highest hp among supports ( 275 ). It's not to say that other supports don't have issues; But, it's very clear that Luna is a massive outlier amongst the other characters available to play atm.
@@Darkcore71 Irrelevant. Whether an ult kills you instantly or in 1.5 seconds makes zero difference in the vast majority of cases. If I'm going to die either way, I'd rather die faster so I can return to spawn faster for a reset.
this is actually what i was wondering while watching the video, why not try magneto and 1 shot the healer when they ult? if its because of the precision it needs, isnt this a top global lobby? or im wayy too noob to understand the situation?
@@Spectacular_Insanity it's just a bad design idea to add more of a bad thing. I agree with you on your point there, but it's cheap design and if you want an online service game to be great for more than a few years, those things that are annoying now will be far worse if kept unchecked. Look at widowmaker in overwatch for example. I think they are better ways to solve the problem but cheap shots like that make the issue worse when you don't pick them, still allowing the issue to stand: 3 op sustain strategist ults. Necros references goats meta in overwatch as an example of a bad thing staying bad. Kill the bad gameplay loop now is all I'm saying.
Chipsa also highlighted another problem "defensive" support ults have, in which they can also be used aggressively, and dictate the tempo of the (first) fight. for example if both teams have a luna snow, whichever luna gets ult first theoretically wins the fight, since her ult allows your entire team to play super aggresively and steamroll the enemy.
a bunch? there’s like 3 somewhat consistent methods iron man magneto moonknight then you have 2 inconsistent scarlet and namor and its not like its a guaranteed kill through the ult everytime
No not at all. To expound on what the other commentor said a lot of those ults are countered by the most popular tanks, Doctor Strange and Magneto. And dps build ults much much slower than healers
You see them so much in diamond + lobbies. I remember dropping 40k damage targeting healers and dps and only getting 17 kills. I played a team that pocketed a starlord and he dropped 60 kills and genuinely would not die even with the entire team focusing him. 3 good strats that know eachother and play together often is pretty much unbeatable unless you’re doing the same.
Bro either they need to nerf Healers or they need to buff DPS And NGL this shit made me cringe and fix the fucking Black panther glitch bro it's the most annoying bug in the game
making supports heal weak will make people not want to usue them. i think they just need to buff survivability during Mantis and cloak's ult and nerf it's charge speed into the ground. Buff jeffs and rockets as well.
I'm a support main and I also complain about these ults because they are completely unskilled and remove more interesting healers with a more skillful gameplay like Adam, Mantis and Rocket
I'm a tank player and support ults are entirely too overtuned. Virtually every person I play with is a support player and thinks support ults are entirely too overtuned. It doesn't take a genius to see how unbalanced it is. There was literally ZERO reason to buff cloak and dagger this season. And for equality sake, there was also zero reason to buff Punisher and Namor.
the concept of most ultimates in Rivals is flawed. as an example, in Overwatch when Reaper ulted, he could have been slept, in Rivals, when Psylocke ults, she is invincible. Poorly designed support ults are a response to poorly designed dps/tank ults
I think an issue with this is that every meta strategist has a way to disable these ults if they didn't give you invincibility, Invisible woman can push, mantis has a CC, CnD has her Cloak Right click to buy some time for your team to get out, Luna Snow also has a CC, Loki can just copy into a support and obviously ult through them. It's not just about poorly designed ults but also that all the good strategists are GOOD because they have everything you'd want in their kits, which makes rocket, warlock and jeff fall behind because they're the ones who aren't just a CC/Healing machine
The fact I literally advocated for a nerf to supp ults by saying they should only last 6-8 seconds in the suggestion forum for the rivals discord server, and I somehow got an overwhelmingly negative response from other players, blew my mind. I guess people really really enjoy waiting 45 seconds to play the game every minute or so. Can’t wait for the enemy’s to cycle their ults perfectly so I can practice my aim training while at 40 fps.
3 solutions. 1.Block 3 strategist comp. Put a cap at 2. 2.Nerf the ults either in healing or duration 3.Nerf the ult charge into the ground. No reason Cloak charges ts 3 times in one fight before anyone dies
They could add a system that reduces total healing with 3 strategists and increasing total with 1 strategists. Wouldn't solve the ult problem but make the turtle nature of the comp come apart easily
Magik dash in her ult is basically a free kill if you can land. I’ve heard, not sure if it’s true, that there’s a way for Magik to over damage Luna in her ult to bring her down with a combo of her ranged attack fully charged followed directly by her dash. Magik Lord Here
I understand that Triple Supp is a problem for a lot of people. But, considering that the loudest voices against it are malding flanker-mains makes me unwilling to see it stop… All jokes aside, the duration of the defensive Supp ultimates need to be shortened. Or, they need to take at least 20-25% longer to charge. C&D in particular.
If more than 2 supports are on the field, reduce healing by 35% or even increase damage done to them. This will make it so healers will have to worry more if over 2
Wait a minute, this problem seems familiar… nerf spider-man
NOOOO THE FLASHBACKS
bahahaha
Hmm so let’s just nerf bp cuz why not
I've played these games before!!!!!!
@@picaaplaying bp with 3 healer comp is impossible. Doesnt help that he got nerfed. not like that was gonna do anything to make it better.
As an overwatch player..
IVE PLAYED THESE GAMES BEFORE!!!
Those surely were the Greatest Of All Times
@@vanadiusc6067 goats was more fun because at least it required skillful tank coordination.
which ult in overwatch makes your whole team invulnerable for 10 secondes?
@@raffou24100only Zen. But goats gave immortality not with ultimates, but with the insane aoe healing Brigitte gave at launch
@@raffou24100its not an ult, it’s actually a basic ability. lantern on baptiste. mercy ult also heals through most damage, moira ult instant heals, ana gets a nano that buffs someone 10x stronger than rocket or mantis can buff, plus has the ability to anti preventing heals, only counterplay? kiriko with cleanse that makes the person invulnerable plus ult that lowers all her cooldowns. js cause they dont have something that makes you invulnerable doesnt mean the heals are not overpowered in that game😂 weird take
"Support ults dont need nerfed" mfs when C&D get their ult for the sixteenth time this fight
Also, hot take, ults shouldn't be able to be CC'd. Or at least not 99% of them. Killed out of them, sure, go ahead, but stopped entirely by a web on a four second cooldown? No.
fr everytime i hear "US AGAINST THE WORLD" its like oh well we cant do anything for 10 seconds
@@Jman_19643 all you have to do is charge a scarlet witch/iron man ult
@@ciach0_SC takes 7 business days to charge and iron man gets cucked with any decent hitscan player.
@@ciach0_scarlet witch fucking dies everytime
And iron man can’t aim sometimes
@@ciach0_ scarlet is not a good character for high elo and iron man is not good without gamma team up and both can get either beamed or shielded
Rocket and Adam ults are what support ults are supposed to be, not circle of no one dying for 10sec number 30
i know they're not as strong, but many of the dps also have this lazy AOE design
@@jonc3519 very fair point, It reminds me of smite ultimates but the dps ones arent busted atleast
@@lynache6477 if they nerf support ults dps ults will be next. And dr strange. I’m just glad the novelty is wearing off so maybe we will get some more substantial balance changes.
Yeah this doesn’t work as long as ultimates like storm, Psy, Spider-Man, moon knight, and star lord remain in the game. These ultimates charge at 2800-3100 energy, require zero skill to execute, and have close to zero counterplay if not actually just zero counterplay in the case of storm.
You want better support ultimates? We need better dps ultimates. Magik as “one of the worst ultimates in the game,” according to many people. Yeah, because everyone else is broken. All offensive ultimates in this game need to be like hers.
3700 energy should be the minimum for every dps ultimate in the game. Death blossom Esq “press q to win,” ultimates need to be reworked from the ground up. Bucky and Magik are the gold standard for how dps ultimates should function. They enhance their base kit and still require player skill to execute effectively. Storm is an example of one of the worst ultimate designs I’ve ever seen in a hero shooter or moba ever.
@ bro I’ve been saying this for so long. It’s refreshing to actually see people agreeing with me now. I couldn’t have said it better myself.
I’ve seen enough, nerf Spiderman and Black Panther
Nah buff Luna
@znoqh1047mantis healing
@@cantu7214 please give panther a second spinny dash I beg
@unoriginal2552 he doesn't need that it's too strong just give him more over shield maybe even more than when he got nerfed
YOU CANNOT NERF SKILL BUDDY...
the fact that the round only ended because hulk jumped off makes that even crazier. that couldve continued for a while longer
Luna's ult should last 10 seconds, revert C&D's to 3 dashes instead of 4, and make it so defensive ults take longer to charge
Fr that extra dash adds 2 more seconds to her ult.
4 defensive ults in the game is crazy. Rework 2 of them, or even 3 so that there can't be a triple defensive ult meta.
the ult system in this game is the most unbalanced part of it ngl, moon knights is glitched, defensive support ults are cracked, and storm charges hers WAY too fast. then some like spideys is stopped by a light sneeze despite charging at a perfectly fair rate for a stronger ult. it makes no sense to me that the weaker ults are the ones that charge slower
@@Reverend_Mohg honestly i think the most balanced support ult is Mantis. She heals alot, it doesn't last as long and she can be killed through it.
And make more things counter them.
You just need a CHEAPER TOWNHALL
Cheaper Walls Iron Fist.. Cheaper walls😭
I still don't know what a townhall reference is.
@@Zeemis we are talking about MarvelRivalsX and my Coc
I guess noone is going to explaine it to you. Thats what it sounds like iron fist says when you pop ult. @@Zeemis
@@Zeemis thats what it sounds like what iron fist says when he ults
I AM READY TO PUT ON A SHOW🔊🔊🕺🏽🕺🏽
🗣US AGAINST THE WORLD ❗️
(Im gonna kms)
GATHER AROUND!
DISAPPEAR!
YOUR POWERS ARE MINE!
MAXIMUM PULSE
(I'm here to put an end to this nonsense)
All that you can really do on tank or DPS when the ult train starts is farm your own ultimate for the 42 seconds you spend in purgatory.
Or throw a Magneto ult on top of cloak. Instant kill after dash.
Peni mines can also kill supports through ult like Mantis (or a badly placed Cloak dash), but more difficult.
Gotta add cauterize (for all the old paladins players out there) 😂
8.5/10 ball knowledge required
OH MY GOD THEY TOTALLY DO
I WANT CAUTERIZE SO BAD, IT ACTUALLY FORCED PLAYERS TO TAKE COVER SO YOU COULD HEAL THEM.
cauterize forced everyone into a better player
yup, just a percent of anti-heal in general would be great. Maybe a buff you could pick up or something.
i want wolverine to do slightly less damage but reduce max health temporarily
The game started, 25 seconds in, *US AGAINST THE WORLD*
The ending is so wild 😂 that’s why we missed OW1 in 2016, it was the same when mercy resurrected whole team and you needed to kill everyone again. Now it’s close to it in marvel rivals and everyone loves that. It definitely has to be fixed but are we sure we will not miss these times after 5 years? :)
Mercy was never the problem. It was Brigitte and goats.
@@MstarSmith indeed! And I still miss goats comp 😢
The emotions it gave me are not comparable to 5v5 role queue.
Playing against and playing as this comp is funny for 2 months or 3 but playing this for year and half like another game just makes me scared
i wont miss i just want them to nerf it
I will definitely not miss this meta😭 same way i do NOT miss the brig meta in ow lol
Played a game yesterday where we banned Luna, cloak, and invisible woman. We had mantis Adam and they had mantis rocket. Was genuinely so much more fun and made the pace of the game a lot better. Could be a strategy since there aren't as oppressive of dps characters this season other than storm and maybe wolv.
I swear the Guardians supports are the only ones that don’t make me wanna end it all. The most of them need to be nerfed, especially Mr. and Mrs. *"US AGAINST THE WORLD"*
The only problem with this is when they play a character like storm, or any of the other duelist with easy to use busted ultimates, and your team has no reasonable way to survive it at all
I dont even think the ults are the issue. Its how insanely often they can be farmed. They definitely need to take a look at ult cost.
But im also just being patient snd letting them cook, the devs are ex ow players mostly, so theyll remember goats. Hopefully they add characters that counter this meta.
As a sue main, i often boop people out of support ults. Mr fantastic is underplayed too, he can knovk people around and out of them. A good magik can get pucks through ults, more effective combo characters to assinate the support thats ulting might be enough.
Theres so many ways they can counter support meta, that isnt just nerfing them. Hopefully they find creative solutions, cause imo giving in to just blanket support nerfs would be repeating OW mistakes, where its a tug of war to balance everything, so it all gets nerfed, and than none of its fun
EXACTLY, the issue isnt the ult itself (mostly) its how fast it can be charged fighting a C & D that ults every 2 minutes isnt fun it doesnt even help mostly it just extends the fight and wastes everyones time even on attack where you want to be fast.
Nah there just shouldn't be 4 characters with trans, there's a reason zen was the only one and it was 6 seconds
@@benofthepeople322 Agreed
some ultimates should just be reworked for diversity sake, and healing just needs a big reduction in energy gain to fix the ultimates charging so fast
adding characters to counter is going to snowball into a bad situation. You don't add characters to fix problems because it will always create more problems. This shit needs to be flat out removed from the game. I've played plenty of games that do this and it has power crept everything into oblivion to where the devs are now starting to backtrack it all. Adding characters to combat bad mechanics is a BAD DESIGN philosophy that will not do what you think it will do. It will accomplish nothing. If you add something that is stronger than this, then that becomes a problem. Add something that is stronger than that, then that becomes a problem. You now have a full blown Overwatch situation where the devs are constantly nerfing and buffing shit over and over again.
A Sue main lobbying for NO "blanket support nerfs", lol. Try playing into this instead of being a part of the problem and you'll see why it CANNOT exist the way it is currently. This strategy is NOT healthy for the game and layering powerful things over powerful things is just a stupid idea.
I feel like at lower ranks the comp is more of a hindrance to the team. Just played a plat match where we were losing for most of the round but as soon as one of the healers switched to dps we managed to turn the game in our favour and win.
because support players cant maximize healing output at low rank
2 healer ez to take down by diver and they keep yapping , 1 BP can ez mess up ur backline and u totally ez to lose a combat , most of people yapping because they lose agaist 3 sp team comp but when they win a game with 3 sp in their team they never say anything 😂😂😂
@@BaCo-rt8yyyeah one character who is agreed to be the most buggy one in the game can “easily” mess up the backline when nobody knows how to use their cc not to mention the most of those said supports can cc him through his ult,dash and spinning kick.spider man and venom don’t even have the damage output to kill one healer before they already healed themselves or went to their team you just suck at checking your surroundings.
Ya I got the GM by owning teams that ran 3 supports. So atleast till gm, 3 supports is not a problem at all.
In low ranks, just run MK and melt the supports for free. Obviously doesn't work in high rank but most people aren't there, they make the mistake thinking they can do the same stuff their favorite streamers do.
The ultimates are the only problem of the triple support comp, otherwise it's a triple support crutch. Sacrificing a DPS for a support isn't a downgrade solely because support ultimates are so overtuned
Now before anyone else points this out:
Triple support accounts for around 20% of matches and has under 45% win rate, but the problem with it isn't that it's good, it's that it's popular enough to where you'll see if often while also being the most boring shit you'll ever play against.
It's not a matter of climbing or winning the match, it's about your enjoyment of the game during the match. Shit's boring as fuck, no matter if i win or lose i don't care i don't wanna deal with it.
Also. of anyone is confused on why streamers complain about it, it's because most of the top streamers are in t500, so ofc the teams will be more coordinated and have better game sense and awareness, so in those scenarios where it's possible to chain ults together, comm with your team that you're being dived etc. the comp is actually really strong, ofc it's not going to be as oppressive in our gold and plat lobbies or below.
trip sup sucks tho. you need comms to make it work. also comms on traditional 2-2-2 is better.
If opponents wanna tank their lp just to do emotional dmg, let them, don't need to complain. You have 5~6 counters to choose for. There are plenty ways to one shot or burst sp. Heroes like Magik doesn't even need ult to burst. You just gotta hate it when it's on your team. It's cultural problem, not balancing problem.
Edit: I just watched few top Jeff players also. Defensive ults are never a problem. Jeff can disrupt few entire gameplans and are very flexible (insane skill celling but also insane capabilities). Like his flankings alone already make enemy's strategists & half of dps miserable.
but if that is the case why are pro teams not running triple supports though, I still havent seen one pro team play it to success. I know pro teams and high elo randoms are very different, but I'm curious anyway.
So you're saying it's bad and should be nerfed because it's annoying? Shit take lmao
Our? Not all of us are hard stuck in plat lil bro 😂
ever heard of the story "there once was an old lady who swallowed a fly?" in other words introducing another element to fix a broken one that already exists just makes the problem worse. The solution is reworking ultimate's so that they either don't last as long or have reduced effect where they don't make your team immune to damage for 15 seconds. I suggest something like invisible woman works similar to rocket ult where you can damage it and remove the effect. A similar concept can be done with Luna and cloak and dagger. have them work like Storm where they have shield or increased health but not completely immune to damage.
Yeah, people want to add more features to the game that turn it into Rock/Paper/Scissors, rather than just nerfing what are clearly over-tuned outliers.
It's the same exact issue that Overwatch eventually started to struggle with as the added more 'counter' characters to the game and it ultimately makes the game impossible to balance. Want to nerf the [Anti-Heal] Character? Well you'll need to rebalance *every* *character* they were designed to deal with, and also every character that was designed/buffed to deal with the [Anti-heal]. If you don't... Well congratulations; guess who's now free to be the *new* meta warping problem character.
It turns into a massive balance treadmill with no end in sight and serves no purpose other than destroying the integrity of the game in the long-term.
I think Invis ult should be reworks to instead instantly grant shields to everyone inside it but remove the healing, so with enough damage you can still kill them
@ Honestly, if they tweak the charge needed for the ult to compensate that'd be a nice change. Helps keep support ults varied and doesn't remove agency by being yet another invincibility button.
There are already a lot of oneshots in the game (ults and regular abilites) that can kill supports through their ults. With more characters added to the game there will be more. People just complain that their "favorite" character isn't able to kill through support ults alone, and then complain instead of swapping.
Also nobody mentions that typically when the enemy support ults, your own support answers with an ult of their own, and now both teams are in the fight for the same duration. I find that pretty much all streamer/high elo players that complain about triple support don't actually play a lot of support, and just cry that triple support counters their main (spidey mains anyone?).
Not to mention that most of the game, people do not have their ults. So what are people doing during this time? Sucking their thumbs?
All these streamers complain that support is op, but don't actually play it, what does that say?
The way my team counters is going full dive and hard targeting
is this a joke?
@@roro372 no its not a joke, support players are braindead and just press Q when they're almost dying. it literally has a shit winrate dont know what these streamers are on about
@@xondeez757 because these streamers are in the highest elos not bronze like you
@@xondeez757 it has a sht winrate cause its a mirror match they play agsint eachother so much the winrates will never be high
@@xondeez757 Yeah, the main problem is that the streamers are literally in t500, so ofc the players aren't braindead, they comm they play relatively well together, etc.
In lower ranks where people don't comm and the players have poor awareness it's obviously not going to be as oppressive or as coordinated as it is in t500.
The real problem is, why is there 3 ults (Luna, Cloak and IW) that do exactly the same. I have mainly played rocket this season (not a sup main btw) and I do well on rocket, having more heals than the other healers, not dying, reviving... But I always get asked to swap, just cause rocket's ult is not a stupid 20s infinite healing zone. They need to add variety on strategists ults, like OW Kiriko that gives attack speed and shit (dont exactly know what her ults does).
It's ironic because Rocket can boost other characters like Magneto or Punisher enough for them to cancel the defensive ults.
it wouldve been so cool if instead of just making another invincibility sphere for sue storm they maybe made it so that every 2 seconds or so the enemy team goes invisible for 1 second for a duration of 15 seconds or something (just spitting ideas out of my ass) but nooo they had to make luna part 2 because having 1 obviously wasnt enough
The annoying thing is - in principle the ults are very different but the sheer amount of healing they provide makes them all function as immortality zones.
Swear to God i hope people stop using the argument of "this only applies in high rank" its a fing comp game, eventually, everyone will do it to win. At first we say "ohh it's boring so noone wants to do it" or something like that but eventually, when people start getting mad losing to the strat, they also do the same and it just snowballs. Its not a high skill strat so anyone can pick it up and do it
I get what they're saying though an uncoordinated triple support comp is easy to walk through and lower ranks aren't coordinated at all. Especially solo q.
Dude, it has a lower win rate compared to 2-2-2 at all ranks, and for the tournament players, they say its worse. It's boring sure but it's not broken there's more than enough counters it
@vapesog232 to be fair, its kept in check in lower ranks/ solo cause
1. Its boring and most people are still in their "I'm that guy" dps phase lol
2. There's always 1 or 2 that are clearly forced to do it lol, i,e that dps or tank that you bully into switching so they are kind of clueless and ez to make panic ult.
But get like 2 actual lord supports on the dont kill me ults and ya........ have fun
I've inadvertently discovered that because people get sooooo comfortable standing in their defensive ults that I can play Jeff, put a bubble trail that leads to an edge then ult and obliterate them for standing
5:30 I know one game where they nerfed the supports and buffed the tanks... and then everyone stopped playing it.
do not even mention that implication in my vicinity fould commentor
Yeah really hoping mfs don't encourage the devs to just do the same patches overwatch did. Honestly though these devs I have faith in to fix problems like these in more creative ways than simple numbers adjustments
If netease listens to top 500 we will literally just be repeating overwatch again. Oh well, I’d like to know to jump ship early or not. Next patch will let me know if I’m even gonna bother with rivals going forward.
@@animaanalysis braindead
@@animaanalysis average triple support main quitting the game when spamming q all game isnt as viable a strategy anymore
i played against 3 supp and it was hard but forcing them to ult then countering them is key, its not a problem from the game, its the players, i played with 3 supp and we somehow lost even when we counter every ult cuz their team is just better. (i am GM1)
If defensive support ults specifically took twice as long to charge, that would likely fix it without nerfing their effectiveness when up.
I don't know exactly what the perfect charge time increase is, but increasing the charge time would probably be the best and easiest solution.
I would like less charge for healing ults in general. Then nerf Luna and CnD ult charge time. Make Invis and Mantis healing ult give much less hps but keep similar charge time to now to differentiate them.
Rocket and Jeff can keep their ult charge. Loki would need a special system.
@@MattLaine-k2b I honestly miss having to use my ult carefully in ow. In rivals it doesn’t matter as much because I can build it in 1 minute of fighting
nerf the up time by 20% or make it 4500 pts to earn. i think it sits at 3700 pts.
@@jonc3519yes! I think they ought to nerf every ult charge rate by 20%, and supports by 40%.
I like triple healer, less insta lock dps nerds begging for heals and throwing slurs around
I think they could help fix C&D by just, removing the AOE heal on the autos and just make it single target (or just raise the more broken support ult costs higher). Because it's what, 3700 points for C&D ult, 1 point per 1 hp healed, and she's healing in a big AOE with her Autos, Right click, and E ability. If your team is grouped up all being shredded, you can literally get your ult in like 20-30 seconds. It's honestly crazy.
It's even hard to assassinate her with some characters like Magik because even if you do the combo extremely quickly, if she just starts autoing you, she heals herself due to the AOE, which gets her just high enough HP where she might live by switching to cloak and right clicking, which can keep her just alive long enough to get help from her team. This wouldn't be a problem if both her "safety abilities" (both her right clicks) weren't on a 12s cooldown when characters like Loki has his shift on a 25s CD, and swap on a 15s CD. Or Adam who's soul bond is on a 30s CD.
She just feels like a drastically better healer than all the others.
While its rare to see but there are some teams comporised completely of one type.
I had the privilege of being a part of them, one of them was all DPS, and another was all healers
Im not gonna lie there is something really funny about playing dps, seeing the enemy have a dive comp (spidey), switching to support and suddenly seeing the enemy team do nothing brings the game to a crawl
Yup its happened to me and I have three characters I normally play at gm1 now because of that. Spidey starting. Squirell girl into triple supp and namor to just stomp out basically any other comp
This is how it should be, the fact that the game let's you change your picks to counter the enemy's picks is a good thing. Some DPS main's just complain about it because they are unwilling to also swap.
Man you will guys will be dying if those ults arent like that
It's funny how Necros had ult every fight as Magik too but the supp ult charge is the only problem 😂
the support ults are infinitely better than a magik ult lmao
As someone who mostly plays quick match, its rare to encounter a team with even two supports. However when a trip strat does pops up it can be a curve stomp, for either side.
The only viable way to nerf this is increase the ult charge time. Maybe even double it idk. Any other change may just cripple the characters involved.
as it stands C&D has the lowest ult charge needed to pop it at (if I remember correctly) 2300 or 2400. It's pretty absurd
@@ceroluthor mhm, cnd can get ult twice in a single team fight, it's ridiculous
@@randomt800kiddo2I play spidey(feel free to call me salty) and most if not all the team fights I’m in, going behind and flanking does not work due to the healers popping their outs and countering me. What’s even worse is that they don’t get punished for solo ulting because the ludicrous ult times let them go up to their team and still have a good 6 seconds left of it to win the team fight.
@@RN-pt2xk dps dives just arent very good on their own from what ive seen. you really need a fully committed dive comp with a cap and venom to make it work
@ Spidey himself is honestly garbage, I really hope they give him a buff in the next patch
Best way to counter this is going triple support and let one support be rocket, go either double tanks 1 dps or 1 tank 2 dps but one of the dps must be punisher. Punisher and rocket ult melts through any support ult easily.
Triple support isn't even good.. In EVERY rank, triple support has less than a 50% win rate. It's just annoying. And makes dive heroes specifically much worse. I do agree they should nerf support ults, but triple support really isn't as good as people act. Just annoying to play against. Even if you win, a lot of long and drawn out fights.
@Arctic37 I fully agree with this, the support ult i think needs nerf is C and D bc it builds way too fast. Every other support ult isnt as bad but i can understand why ppl have a problem with it.
That's because a lot of people don't know how to play triple support well, and it has a specific niche where it is op. The more people learn how to do triple support well and when the more it will become a problem.
@@Arctic37the reason the win rate is so low is because of the amount of mirror matches there are
There is some counterplay other than mirror.
Wanda and mag are good to run against triple support but obviously wanda is only useful for team up and ult, her ult being able to pierce through the healing.
Groot and Moon Knight help with it too, both ults combined and the fact mk ult is bugged right now for extra damage kills through support ults.
I think thats pretty much it though. I def agree though that they generate ult soooo fast.
also magik can one shot in her ult
Who tf Runs Wanda In Celestial
wanda's ult is literally a suicide button lol
Wanda is not a real hero... Mag ult gets blocked easily by a good tank. Same with Iron Man. Groot and Moon Knight is the only reliable strat, but then again, Groot has infinitely slower ult recharge rate than supports do.
Wanda is unplayable past gold
Mag doesn’t get his ult charge NEARLY as fast as any other support. Same with Groot.
A potential fix could be more specific but OP teamups (like Venom/Spidey) that make or break that characters' kit. More options to choose from instead of just Sups
That's a terrible idea lol, just incentives counter picks lol. Having your character be useless because your team doesn't want to run the teamup would be really annoying
Hot take, I think they should keep support ults in place like it's right now. Honestly, even see top top gameplay like this game, I can see 3 supp become problem only when damage is not enough like with hela in your first game. Hela solo deal very little damage, so 3 sup just heal it instantly and you can't get peaks because if this, even iron man with gamma upgrade and right click could bait some ults and creates space and pics for you, but he switched to 3rd supp and makes game boring. So, my point is if play well 3 supp is not even the strongest combo, i mean punisher and racoon exist, and this is counter every support ult if they ult to counter together, dive comp like venom/spidey/iron fist or magik exist also, 3 support just easier because support role easier in general and more good players in this playerbase right now, I think we just need to wait to see people get actually good in dps role and the problem of 3 supp will be solved by itself
Defensive ult doesnt save the enemy team from being swallowed by jeff. He has been my fav hero this season ❤
Most viable nerf to the triple support is by adding a reduction in ult charge gather for 3 or mkre of the same role being chosen.
Meaning CND, Sue Storm, and Luna can't gather ult charge at their same average rate.
It gets reduced because of he team in general is going to survive with the amount of healers.
no one is going to be the one to want to play 3rd dps healer or tank if you just get reduced ult charge for simply existing. may as well add role queue at that point
@DruudeOwns Least obvious triple support user.
Role queue is not the end all be all, how about. Suck it up and just play the game, if there is 3 of the same role then all 3 of them without Ult are doing the same job, but with Ult they can do more by simply pressing a button.
Take 3 dive DPS if they all get Ult charge at the same rate the way 3 support can, it's busted.
This doesn't discourage people from playing the third role of anything if the only thing getting targeted is the ult. This just shows the problem clear as day, it's the rate that Ult can be gained.
@@DruudeOwns thats literally the point? to discourage the triple support meta? you just proved his comment
You had the right idea at first. It should just be that ult charge is nerfed for the strategists with massive healing ultimates. There's a few other characters who could also do with a longer ult charge as well, particularly like moonknight and storm considering how strong their ultimates are.
@@_Don_king The thing is their ultimates *are* very counter able. There's even a tank as well as many other dps, as you mentioned Moon Knight. Who can easily counter those support ults.
The problem is how fast they can be gained, not that they're particularly really strong. Luna, CND, Mantis etc. Their ult isn't much of a problem when nearly half of the dps will nullify that Ult with their own, and then some like for example Iron Man or MK.
If they get it every team fight though, we still have a problem. And even if you nerf the ult charge for the individual strategists you will still see triple strategist, because now they'll just stack their ults back to back instead of all at once. Still causing the issue of nobody dying.
The problem is not triple supp, but the ult charge. FOR EVERYBODY . People love to complain about healers ult charge but forget about Storm, Psylock, Moon Knight etc. The game would still be problematic if they only nerf supp ult and these heroes still farm ult as quickly as they farm now 😅
Yeah bro, put the spiderman ultimate guide in the bag
I don’t want too many nerf yet but I think they should decrease ult build up time on supports
Triple supports aren’t OP, at least not according to the win rate. It’s just annoying to play against because team fights become too tedious.
Im a support main, and i do feel it's dumb that i can also solo ult to stall the paload and easily survive 6 people trying to kill me. Ive had my whole team respawn and win cause me doing that in overtime
I will laugh if they nerf strategists and then everyone starts complaining that there isn't enough strategist players. This is the first game I've played in a long time that wasn't an MMO where people actually pick healing characters of their own volition.
It’s ok, let these overwatch players ruin the game. Fucking nerds need to not play the game 24/7 for content lol
Subscribing when u drop the advanced guide. (Yes im holding the subscribe hostage)
Hot take. I personally feel like the reason triple support feels unfun is because we trade ults to live. Instead of temporarily giving up the advantage and leaving the fight the current player base just opts to trade ults to stay immortal every single fight. Then it just becomes a fight for who has the most support ults. Say you are running 3 dps and the enemy is running 3 support. Why not use that extra dps ult to bait out the extra support ult? Or maybe the tank baits it out so that the ults become an even playing field. If you don’t choose to fist fight and trade ults and back up, stacking ults upon ults to stay immortal longer wouldn’t happen. An Ult gives you a temporary advantage in space so why fight them when they have that advantage?
That said I’m just a Diamond 2 player and I am still far from the rank Necros is at. But I have definitely seen people just default to fist fighting in enemy support ults when there literally isn’t much reason to. Just back out a bit then come back with more resources and more ults than the enemy team.
no this is a full brainer, people arent utilizing their ults and just want that full kill streak with it, sometimes using your ult to bait others is the way to go. this is coming from a gm player
@ yeah I feel like this is just what is happening. Offensive ults are so strong and so powerful that they can wipe teams so people always wanna seek that high of a team wipe. Support players just hold it to counter your ult and then your support counters their ult so on and so forth. During that fist fight since no one died everyone is just refilling ult charge since they are in combat anyways making it so the next cycle just comes up faster. Other comps can definitely win out against triple support comps and I have seen data show that triple support comps don’t even have a higher win rate compared to the traditional 2 2 2 which is kinda wild thinking how many people find that triple support kills the game.
the problem is that support ults charge too quickly and they are gonna have defensive ult each time so retreating is almost pointless
@ I think fist fighting each other might also be just contributing to that problem. Usually you’d expect people to back off when an ult is used, like say a Hela ult people would run for cover and disengage from combat. But with the existence of defensive ults players have come to expect the defensive ult to be a crutch to stay alive and continue combat by trading ults. Usually this isn’t an issue but then when you have multiple defensive ults and 1 minute 2 minute long combat segments where no one dies, ult just charges the whole time. Everyone is charging ult but no one is dying repeating the shitty cycle.
Did you know that 2 2 2 has the highest win rate out of all comps? Did you also know that triple support comps hover around 46% win rate? The comps aren’t that bad just people find it frustrating to play against. Just look up the stats at RivalsMeta. I feel if people interacted with support ults a bit more critically and not default to the easiest most mindless option of trading ults every single time the issue would solve itself.
@@SanoSoraas a storm player, because I build ults so fast I can just force support ults constantly and using this has gotten me to GM2
Nerfing support will only enforce the triple support meta
You’re calling out strategist main while you are a duelist main complaining that strategists are OP. You’re saying that role queue won’t be needed and that DPS heroes are more fun therefore must be the main picks that people want, well what that does is make people fight for the DPS role, making matches horrible because everyone wants to damage rather than heal. It’s very common in games to make the”damage dealer” OP and that costs players struggling in draft, creating a canon that soon requires role queue. CND, mantis and loki copying those are easily shutdown by Magneto ult, Ironman and scarlet can burst anyone. Punisher out damages any supp ults other than CND (when her ult is stacked). Moonknight shut them down as well, and incorporating groot ult with MK, Namor one shots as well.
You are very unintelligent
Support delulu detected
3 supporter is boring in esport dude, there is no any highlight moment.
Bro unironically mentioned Scarlet Witch and Iron man as a counter lol
Just takes a CnD with a brain or a strange or magneto and thos guys arent doing anything
My monkey brained idea: the game balances strategist ult charge based on whether or not there's more than 2 strategists in the game. if you have more than 2, strategist ult charge is nerfed by some amount, enough to the point where it's very hard to stack multiple ults in a single teamfight. or perhaps make healing from different sources give diminishing returns. 2 sources of healing = 90% effectiveness, 3 sources = 80% or something like that. this would make triple support still an option with more damage focused characters like adam and mantis
This would be a great start to deal with too many supports
Good idea
Issue is though, that ultimately it only hurts supports that don't bring invincibility. If for whatever reason you run 3 supports you become even more reliant on having defensive ults to make up for the healing reduction; As well as, characters with already weak healing like Adam ultimately only serve to weaken the rest of their team rather than elevate it.
@@notshotgun4852 I think he might be referring to Ult charge, not healing effectiveness.
I think having role passives will just make the game worse imo. It adds another factor to the game that you need to keep track and balance around. I see where you're coming from tho...
And I also lowkey dislike these seasonal buffs they give characters for the same reason. Lets say people want to nerf Magik, who has a 15% dmg increase this season, so they nerf her numbers. Then the next season rolls around and now she is nerfed + doesn't have her 15% dmg increase, so she's terrible. In my eyes, passives like these just complicate things and add a layer to balance that really shouldn't even be there.
I think the issue with your latter part about different sources of healing giving diminishing returns is a matter of ELO. If I read it right, it sounds like you are saying that if you ulted as Luna, its 100% effective, but then if you ult as Mantis at the same time, both healing sources are going down to 90%. If your team is coordinated enough you just do one ult after the other so its always 100% effectiveness.
Now if you mean that in general the ults do less healing/charge rate based off the amount of healers, maybe that could work. But like I said before, personally, I would rather they not add an additional aspect of balance. Plus I believe you would need to make ults less frequent for DPS too...like how Overwatch did it. They have nerfed ultimate regen across the board early in Overwatch's lifespan as players got better and would get their ults in a minute. Maybe that would be more healthy at the cost of some op hero fantasy being lost.
This is also a matter of variety from a design perspective. I absolutely hate how all the supports have zen ult. They need more support ults with skill expression or just different part of a kit. I think Overwatch does this very well- no one has an ult exactly like Zen's. Lucio gives overhealth, Moira is transferred into a beam/does damage, Mercy can heal everyone but she can also move around a lot and die to a DPS, Illar/Baptiste are offensive in nature, I guess the closest is Lifeweaver tree, but even that can be destroyed instead of coming from the player but you get the point. I really really really want them to create more inspired, unique ults that aren't just pressing a button with insane value. And ik some people will talk about DPS ults but I think those are different except for Moon Knight/Storm. People complain about Psylocke, but really her ult isn't "insta value" if you have a Loki clone or a bubble, her ult can do nothing and be shut down. Her ult is best for solo targeting imo. There is Storm but hers is easy to notice at least, and yeah you would need to nerf her ult charge if you nerf support ults since its the only direct counter. Then Moon Knight is just terrible, its insta value, insta death, without any sort of counter. That needs nerfs hard.
Ok I yapped way too much, Ig I wanted to vent my frustrations a bit and also give my take on your idea. Which was more personal preference of not adding passives rather than a critique of the idea you laid out, sooo I think its a fine idea! Just, imo, not healthy for the game in the long run and so should be avoided.
If there was any passive I would like it would be passive regen outside of combat.
ngl that thumbnail is really cool
Aren't there ways to counter this other than matching the comp? You can ban supports or play guys like iron man, magneto, groot/moonkight combo ult works as well to actually kill through these ults. and I've seen how useful it is when a cloak and dagger applies vulnerability to a luna snow ulting. Tho i agree that at least the rate of ult charge that supports have need to be lower
Yea, there are several ways to counter, necro complained only because his character pools didn't have one of them（magik, wolverine kind of, but spidy, bucky, bp, psylock, mr. fantastic literally do nothing)
There's only a couple ways to kill through support ults, not as many as people like to make out, only 2 or 3 of those are consistently viable and all of them are countered by the two most common tanks... Strange and Magneto
True , groot and mk is hard counter for 3 sp comp ..the problem is they just want to nerf sp so they can easier to kill them
The Magento on every team shits on Iron man because he can easily absorb your ult with his or block it with 1 of 2 shields that will guarantee the target survives. Groot ult with moon Knight means you are forced to use to ults to their 2 and its very inconsistent to get a good groot ult. Iron Man also just enables supports to farm ult faster because he outputs a lot of AOE dmg that us slow so they will just perma heal through you.
That dodge on the magneto ult was goated beyond belief
I don't know if it makes sense but what if.
The more supports you have in the team, the less heals and slower the ult recharge they have? Would that work or is it still ridiculous?
that likely wouldnt work. the best thing to do is jus increase the amount of charge needed and/or decrease the healing numbers in the ultimates.
Best way to solve it is probably to reduce the ult charge strategists receive when damaging enemies. This way the other strategists are gonna find it difficult to charge their ultimates while another ultimate is already healing your entire team.
@@1234macro not bad idea, my only worry is adam or mantis that rely on damage... I prefer just nerf problematic character ult rate... could be same way little less ult rate from healing and decent decrease on damage
What would groot + ironman do against this? or generally just anything that can one shot a group of people bunched up?
Why bro say "sorry Thanos" like that 😂
Bro watching this live was so funny lol, also love getting to see you play magik :D
captioning the ults is criminal hahahah
Is there a vanguard main out there that hates Triple Support meta? I’ve only seen DPS complain and make videos about this
Only duelists complain about it
Does anyone else notice the concerted effort by a few players who play together and make content to alter the game in the way they want, that supports the characters and playstyles they want?
If the dev team and playerbase are foolish enough to fall for these obvious and desperate appeals to nerfs instead of adapting, we can welcome this game to the OW graveyard.
Triple support largely came about not for ults but to counter many of the braindead dive comps that would desperately try to zerg a strategist to auto win a team fight. Coincidentally, this streamer plays exclusively dive characters.
Triple support has less of a win rate than 2 2 2 and is overall less successful.
So far, we have a video from Bogur, and now this one.
I'm guessing WhyAndrew will be dropping his next.
dont care. shits boring and frustrating its like playing a game where people have godmode toggles
then when you try to dive anyway, supports have 30 ways to peel for themselves and others
Dawg y’all need to stop basing stuff off Win rates. Triple support is highly popular in higher ranks & guess what? If two teams going against eachother go trip supp then numbers and % become detrimental. All we ask is to make ult charge not so fast & perhaps be a little more creative when creating ults for supports.
We already have anti-dive characters like Namor, Wanda, CnD, Pennie. Ur argument is dumb
U probably never played against triple support
@@Patek.01 It's frustrating to get dived by a character that has the highest mobility in the game and can escape 7 times out of ten if he is his brain works.
Yet somehow, people adapted to that, and one of those adaptations was running triple support. Your frustration is your own personal issue. It shouldn't affect game balance.
Suggestions:
- Future supports provides less healing and more of other utility. Such as stuns, Crowd control, damage buff, etc.
- Have a character that inflicts Anti heal to the opponent. This can limit the amount of healing someone can get (Even from health packs).
- Very simply make the Ult charging time longer so the amount of downtimes are much lower.
Im curious on how they will fix this with no role que. I do think your on the right track though with tuning up the defensive ultimates. I was curious also when we would get a anti heal character(s). Such as since johnny blaze uses fire they ciuld make the characters that use flames induce a healing reduction on burning characters.
Just make support ults more costly and last less OR make that its possible to kill someone in their ult without a oneshot
It’s not hard. Defensive ults should be severely nerfed, except maybe mantis because you can kill through it if you just hard focus someone. Nobody dies ults were a bad idea
Just played a game in that symbiotic map. When I tell you their Susan legit ulted 1 minute in. Before I (as a strange) (frontline) even touched the point. They had triple support so you can assume what was coming next.
The fix to this triple heal bs….. don’t do more damage than your enemy. Simply walk them down and have your healers lock in.
I think all ult charge across the board (every role) could be reduced by like 80% and it'd make the game a lot better.
More about character to character interaction and less about exchanging ults every single fight.
You might be onto something. Ultimates are so overused that most of them feel bland and less “ultimate” than they should feel
This was my problem with people saying Role Que shouldn’t be a thing. I’m not saying add it in, but there should be a cap of 3 per role bare minimum in ranked.
It may be triple support Meta rn, but one day we’ll get teams going 2 Vanguard, 3 supports, and a Loki for defending maps. Once it hits overtime the Loki will just ult the best DPS ult they can get and clear house
So! My take as a support player
Get more oneshot ults into the game, like the magneto cancer ball
There
Pick oneshot ults into triple support and q as soon as they q to win the game
Unfun solution. Nobody likes one shots except for the person using it.
Honestly this. I also feel that so many people refuse to experiment in methods to one-shot healers through their ults. That isn't to say support ults aren't a bit much right now, I say as a support player, but there are quite a few ways to burst them to death that people seem incredibly reluctant to implement.
B.Widow + Mantis: One Shots healers through ult.
Hawkeye : One Shots healers through ult.
Magik: Can combo healers to death in their ults.
That isn't to say any of those options are easy, or that this is the exhaustive list of options, but I feel like people need to explore the options that exist in the game rather than sticking to the dogma of the 'current' meta while simultaneously complaining that there is no answers to 3/support.
Also, hot take incoming, almost all the issues with 3-support stem from Luna. She's clearly the best healer; it's not even close. There are no weak points in her kit; She has: the highest movement speed, best support ult in the game, very good healing and damage, the best hard CC (on support), one of the hardest to hit models in the entire game ( due to her general shape and animations ), her Namor team-up is extremely strong, *and* she's tied for the highest hp among supports ( 275 ).
It's not to say that other supports don't have issues; But, it's very clear that Luna is a massive outlier amongst the other characters available to play atm.
@@Darkcore71 Irrelevant. Whether an ult kills you instantly or in 1.5 seconds makes zero difference in the vast majority of cases. If I'm going to die either way, I'd rather die faster so I can return to spawn faster for a reset.
this is actually what i was wondering while watching the video, why not try magneto and 1 shot the healer when they ult? if its because of the precision it needs, isnt this a top global lobby? or im wayy too noob to understand the situation?
@@Spectacular_Insanity it's just a bad design idea to add more of a bad thing. I agree with you on your point there, but it's cheap design and if you want an online service game to be great for more than a few years, those things that are annoying now will be far worse if kept unchecked. Look at widowmaker in overwatch for example. I think they are better ways to solve the problem but cheap shots like that make the issue worse when you don't pick them, still allowing the issue to stand: 3 op sustain strategist ults. Necros references goats meta in overwatch as an example of a bad thing staying bad. Kill the bad gameplay loop now is all I'm saying.
Chipsa also highlighted another problem "defensive" support ults have, in which they can also be used aggressively, and dictate the tempo of the (first) fight. for example if both teams have a luna snow, whichever luna gets ult first theoretically wins the fight, since her ult allows your entire team to play super aggresively and steamroll the enemy.
Aren’t there a bunch of ults that can kill through the straights ults you mentioned?
a bunch? there’s like 3 somewhat consistent methods iron man magneto moonknight then you have 2 inconsistent scarlet and namor and its not like its a guaranteed kill through the ult everytime
No not at all. To expound on what the other commentor said a lot of those ults are countered by the most popular tanks, Doctor Strange and Magneto. And dps build ults much much slower than healers
You see them so much in diamond + lobbies. I remember dropping 40k damage targeting healers and dps and only getting 17 kills. I played a team that pocketed a starlord and he dropped 60 kills and genuinely would not die even with the entire team focusing him. 3 good strats that know eachother and play together often is pretty much unbeatable unless you’re doing the same.
2:13 IDK man.... You did say repeatedly last night on live how much you hate the game, lol
Crazy that they gave hulk the ability to exile 1 player for 3 seconds and supports the ability to exile all players for 10+ seconds
I don't think triple support is meta, but it makes spider-man USELESS. He can never get a kill diving without ult 😭😭😭
Us against the world
Your powers are mine
Us against the world
We are ready to put on a show
Bro either they need to nerf Healers or they need to buff DPS And NGL this shit made me cringe and fix the fucking Black panther glitch bro it's the most annoying bug in the game
a good way they could balance it is if the more supports you have on a team the longer it takes for them to get their ult
making supports heal weak will make people not want to usue them. i think they just need to buff survivability during Mantis and cloak's ult and nerf it's charge speed into the ground. Buff jeffs and rockets as well.
Love the content!
As a Strategist main, I 100% agree with the rant lol
Ah yes the dps main complaining abt supports being too strong. Smh.
I'm a support main and I also complain about these ults because they are completely unskilled and remove more interesting healers with a more skillful gameplay like Adam, Mantis and Rocket
I'm a tank player and support ults are entirely too overtuned. Virtually every person I play with is a support player and thinks support ults are entirely too overtuned. It doesn't take a genius to see how unbalanced it is. There was literally ZERO reason to buff cloak and dagger this season. And for equality sake, there was also zero reason to buff Punisher and Namor.
We only need a new charcter that keep triple sports in check
Like logan keeping 3 tanks in check
the concept of most ultimates in Rivals is flawed. as an example, in Overwatch when Reaper ulted, he could have been slept, in Rivals, when Psylocke ults, she is invincible. Poorly designed support ults are a response to poorly designed dps/tank ults
I think an issue with this is that every meta strategist has a way to disable these ults if they didn't give you invincibility, Invisible woman can push, mantis has a CC, CnD has her Cloak Right click to buy some time for your team to get out, Luna Snow also has a CC, Loki can just copy into a support and obviously ult through them. It's not just about poorly designed ults but also that all the good strategists are GOOD because they have everything you'd want in their kits, which makes rocket, warlock and jeff fall behind because they're the ones who aren't just a CC/Healing machine
I know what's the problem, NERF Genji
Close enough, welcome back GOATS 😊
Lets not forget the other great part of it. Everygame is each team the same 3 supports and magneto to try and snipe one out. Very exciting stuff.
The fact I literally advocated for a nerf to supp ults by saying they should only last 6-8 seconds in the suggestion forum for the rivals discord server, and I somehow got an overwhelmingly negative response from other players, blew my mind. I guess people really really enjoy waiting 45 seconds to play the game every minute or so. Can’t wait for the enemy’s to cycle their ults perfectly so I can practice my aim training while at 40 fps.
Every time a CnD ults, an angel loses its wings.
3 solutions. 1.Block 3 strategist comp. Put a cap at 2. 2.Nerf the ults either in healing or duration 3.Nerf the ult charge into the ground. No reason Cloak charges ts 3 times in one fight before anyone dies
3 ults back to back is wild work 😭😭😭😭
As a C&D main, I didn’t know the problem until I switched mid game to Thor and oh my god it’s tragic
They could add a system that reduces total healing with 3 strategists and increasing total with 1 strategists. Wouldn't solve the ult problem but make the turtle nature of the comp come apart easily
I have almost no issues with this games balance until we start talking about more than two strats on a team
I feel like we forgeting how strong dps's ults are if used correctly, ironman can kill all 6 in just a hit
me and my mates were stuck in low plat, we figured out we could just go triple support as premade, went STRAIGHT to d2. Now its just meta.
i think the only way is to either nerf the defensive ults or implement role queueing to limit the amount of healers which i think would kill the game.
Magik dash in her ult is basically a free kill if you can land. I’ve heard, not sure if it’s true, that there’s a way for Magik to over damage Luna in her ult to bring her down with a combo of her ranged attack fully charged followed directly by her dash. Magik Lord Here
I’m sure they’ll address it at the mid season patch when they drop The Thing and Human Torch
I understand that Triple Supp is a problem for a lot of people. But, considering that the loudest voices against it are malding flanker-mains makes me unwilling to see it stop…
All jokes aside, the duration of the defensive Supp ultimates need to be shortened. Or, they need to take at least 20-25% longer to charge. C&D in particular.
If more than 2 supports are on the field, reduce healing by 35% or even increase damage done to them. This will make it so healers will have to worry more if over 2
It'll be a pleasant temperature in Hell when the mid-season patch notes roll around and we see C&D and Invisible Woman nerfs
Big brain, my bro called it "triple strategist" instead of "triple support/healer" to make it eye catching - my goat W Vape