One question: What is the ratio between the amount of thrusters and thrust amount? Is is 1:1 linear so that two thrusters needs only half the power and so on?
Yes. The little logic thing that output the neutral buoyancy force is the total force needed for the entire blueprint Therefore, if you have 5 thrusters on this thing, you can take that buoyancy force number divided by 5, and that will be the force per thruster From this you can create all kinds of control systems with all kinds of thrusters, based on a relativistic calculation for the blueprint's mass itself, per thruster. Any number of thrusters; it's just a division of the total force for the blueprint. Great question! 🧠 "adding more thrusters adds more weight" doesn't matter....the x-o-meter outputs the total mass (including thrusters) the thrusters "force" pushes against "everything" including it's own mass....basically you don't have to worry about it, thruster mass automatically included in the math. Like in the video, each time I'd add something on the blueprint the mass number would update; same goes for the thruster updating that number. It's all included in the calculation ezpz don't even have to think about "oh noes I'm adding", because the magic number got your back
@@Robododobobo That sounds about right. So that the additional weight by added thrusters makes the graph a slightly curved. That would make it hard to predict the needed thrust force but I think is should be solvable simply by adding a divider to the Durf's system that represents the amount of thrustes, so the practical implementation should still be easy and should obey the same Durf's Constant. Someone tell me if I'm onto something or completely clueless... EDIT: not gonna remove this comment, but when I did write this, I didn't yet see Durf's answer which perfectly clarifys my questions in this comment.
Interesting, I did a similar thing ago before survival came out using a drone that would do all of this automatically, I just kept adding more and more weight until it came out with a number that would work for any weight, I believe the number was like 4.283. Cool to see how the constant has changed over time.
I for one think this is a very useful video for sure! I’m definitely going to make a floating island with this just because of this video. Very interesting, educational and scientific. Thanks for taking the time to do this for your viewers so they can add it to their creations to upgrade them. Thanks Durf.
Usually I click off from videos like this one, but oddly I actually enjoyed it. I guess seeing math or physics implemented in a useful way makes it a lot more fun. You are a great contribution to the community. Keep up the good work ^^
This makes me want to calculate a bunch of constants and conversion for SM now... I'm going to add them to this comment as I figure them out (more below where relevant). Mass to thrust ratio: 1/3.818 Blocks to meters: --4 blocks / meter-- 3.5343 blocks per meter Density of water: indeterminate Density of aluminum: 1449.68 mass/m^3 Mass to kg ratio: 3.91 kg/mass Gravity: 37.28 blocks/s^2 = 10.548 m/s^2 Thruster force to Newtons multiplier: 0.016672 Notes: Density of water: unfortunately this can't be calculated, as SM uses its own buoyancy values to determine how water interactions work, rather than using density. Density of aluminum: very important, the only block in SM that specifically is marked as a real life material, allowing us to use it as a metric to convert to and from irl mass units Gravity: calculated via the acceleration mode in the x-ometer Mass to Kg: Determined by real life mass of aluminum Blocks to meters: I determined that my original estimate was incorrect based on the GasEngine lua file in the survival game scripts. There is a variable called "RadPerSecond_1MeterPerSecondOn3BlockDiameterTyres", which is set to 2.6666667. I have updated all values here based on this, I have updated all values
@@stanislavspacek2270 I just realized that my conversion for blocks to meters was wrong, so I have updated it and all information based on it based on information gleamed from the game's files
I did the same experiment some time ago, except i used the velocity x-o-meter. I compared the vertical velocity to the velocity one tick ago to get the vertical acceleration(I did this because the normal acceleration gauge cant output negative numbers). Based on acceleration the creation automaticaly adjusted the thrust: for every block/s/s of accel lower thrust by x amount With this more complicated setup I got the number of *1/3.81 863 75 thrust units per weight units* (the same as in the video) (Note that because of the freezing mechanic at the equilibrium the thrust starts lowering until the cration starts falling and then it jumps up again, so the number is only an estimation) TL,DR: did this a more complicated way got a number of 3.81 863 75
to keep the creation level u would need 4 in the 4 corners but that would add more thrust so to account for then u also need to divide by the nuber of thrusters u have
Another way to do this is to just have something change thruster power until an altitude is reached, similar concept as it likely has a base of what you made but it also doesn't slowly drift up or down
OMG! I did this too! but I arrived at 0.2618735 as multiplier for the mass! I used a x-o meter set to altitude to measure upward and downward change in altitude until it was stable, and added/subtracted using tick button in decreasing value (0.1, 0.01, 0.001, on so on) to power a gimbal thruster. 1 divided by 3.818 is close to my multiplier!
If the force as an input of the thrusters is using the ingame unit "blocks" and seconds instead of ticks, then the gravitational constant would be 0.065479 m/s². F = m/3.818 -> m/F = 3.818 Since F=m*a, we can reduce it to 1/a = 3.818 so we know 1/3.818 is already the gravitational acceleration (but in blocks/seconds²). Divide that by 4 (if 4 blocks ingame are equal to 1 meter) to get the acceleration in m/s². Since 0.065479 m/s² is nothing close to the real gravitation, some unit must be wrong. I tried the calculation with blocks/ticks², but that was more than ten times as much as it should be. Perhaps the input of the thrusters in not using blocks and seconds (or ticks), but some unrelated number. Maybe Durf can tell us what the number represents. Maybe I am totally wrong and just made a mistake. edit: The thruster input might just be a multiplier for the vanilla thruster, which can be totally arbitrary. For better calculation we need to know how the vanilla thruster is calculating thrust, but in most cases, this part is super complicated in video games, because it goes down to pixels and viewing angles. But after all, I don't know the game code and I'm not able to figure this out by myself any further.
Yea to calculate this you need the actual unit for weight in the game, which is just arbitrary and idk if they stay the same over some game updates 😩 But to give you an idea of where the calculations might be getting tied up: Metal Blocks was a "weight value" of 1250 in the JSON files...what does this mean? It might be referring to a 1m² of the material...as in, 4x4x4 BLOCKS, a total of 64 blocks So the "weight" of 1250 applies to 64 blocks The number for concrete used to be 500 even, and wood was light weight with 250 Since the survival update, I have no idea what the specific numbers are, but I'm pretty sure they are in reference to a 4x4x4 block size Using the x-o-meter to verify this might be a pain since it'll count the x-o-meter's mass with anything you slap it on (which is a fraction of 1 block of whatever weight class it is, because it has a "hull" collision instead of a cube or sphere or cylinder....yea custom collision calculates mass differently...>_>) You should be able to calculate the same Gforce even if you change units tho, since the relation between the units is what you're calculating, so yea even I'm confused lol..what are we doing again? xD I think you got it, just as a fraction of the 4x4x4 size
@@Durf Well, the gravitational force is dependent on mass, but the acceleration constant is completely independent of it (F = m*a; a = v/t). So we should be able to figure out something, but I think to get any more information, we need to do some horizontal acceleration tests, which are independent of gravitation. With that, we could find out how fast something accelerates at a specific force (that would require zero friction). Do the same mass with the same force, but this time upwards and you can get the gravitational acceleration from the difference of these two measurements.
That's a good question. Over the years the "numbers" used in vanilla thrusters have changed slightly (and with modded thrusters like "wacky thruster" among others) Since then, things seemed to have settled down with survival mode, and there's just the 5 levels of vanilla thrusters in survival mode. In the game JSON files, you can find the vanilla thrusters, and get these "numbers" for what the thruster levels mean (level 5 thruster set to power 50% = some number) Another way you could "get the value" is with this very same test I did in this video, except different: Start with a neutrally buoyant creation floating in the air; it must have the vanilla thruster you want to test, AND a number logic thruster pointed the opposite way Heck you don't need to do this test up/down, can just be on a loose piston horizontally... or in zero gravity Anyway, you turn on the vanilla thruster, it's pushing the creation on way, you count up the number thruster until it's equal force....you have the "number" of vanilla force Same test as this video applied differently. Although I think the number in the JSON file should be the same result...no reason why it wouldn't be...when number thrusters were made, "force" units were the same as any other afaik.
I kinda feel maybe if it's neutrally bouyant, it's going to keep moving in the direction it's pushed, since there isn't any air friction in scrap mechanic (is there?) so adding blocks until the contraption stops isn't making it neutrally bouyant, you're making it slightly negatively bouyant. though that's probably small enough to be negligible.
I'm pretty sure there is air resistance in scrap mechanic, and nothing was pushing the creation other than the thruster, so it was moving upo because there was too much thrust
Discovered something hilarious in Scrap Mechanic for an elevator that doesn't use engines. Setup 4 column's or a large metal tube like in the 'dynamic' elevator, make a compartment. Use a pipe with bearing's to place 4 wheel on the top and bottom of the compartment or in this manner the top, though do not have the wheel's touching the wall in this state. Your wanting to setup your bearing in the pipe's to move the wheels to the wall using a controller. Discovered in survival if the bearings over extend beyond the wall or press up against it, then Scrap Mechanic Phyisics is going to do something weird with the energy and push it upwards... which I have no idea why as I set the wheels up on the bottom to perform this task without the engine touching to make sure I had the proper degrees to get it to work.... and instead found myself flying.
Here I do a followup video: ua-cam.com/video/Z1Ck7elBGk0/v-deo.html You might be seeing the effect that the lift has on objects (if you just took it off the lift, it goes down, but if it was placed "naturally" in the world, it doesn't go down) Check it out because I go into more specifics about the number and how to get it ....also just to make sure...your thrusters are ON right? xD it's hard to help when it's just "it doesn't work"...when it works fine for me 😅 I'm pretty sure it's just that lift thing; everything you spawn in gets a little downwards push So putting something under it to stop it from going down (then removing it), you should see the antigrav number working just fine
@@Durf you could use some funky math so the craft wouldn't drop as soon as you loose one thruster, I'm guessing constant value, an add block (which you tie all of the thruster bases to) and then use that to divide, would that work? If so would make an interesting multiplayer challenge, try and shoot down the other craft
Um, Question: just made a hover module after seeing this, has all the logic nice and compact so I can put it in anything. However, every time I step on it I get launched to -infinity in all directions(I used fant to see this, tried without fant and still does this). Why?
This is a difficult question to answer without actually seeing what you did / if you could see it enough to explain in your comment then you wouldn't be asking I think I suspect the math is incorrect, like you're doing multiplied by 3.818 instead of mass divded by 3.818, or really I'm not sure...I'd have to make assumptions since I have no idea what you built. What I did was have my creation (any mass) The mass x-o-meter is on there, with mass number Math block in division mode (white number divided by black number) Counter block with the number 3.818 (painted black) The mass meter and counter block are both connecting into the math block division, and that output is the total thruster force for the blueprint. The important bit there is the paint color, so the division is done correctly (numerator divided by the denominator; at least one of the inputs should be painted white or black, so the math block knows what number is what) ...the strange part is that a mistake like this would make it NOT fly at all...not fly away....so I really don't know what you built xD
@@Durf Man, no I’m even more confused. The structure is literally just the gimbal, mass o meter, counter, math block set to division. Everything is painted correctly. The glitches are even more confusing though. I did some testing, and the device is crazy. The creations is literally frozen in mid air, if any block falls on it, that block disappears, and if I push a block into it with a piston, the piston starts freaking out, and the block on the piston sometimes just stops existing! If my character ever steps on the device, my character gets launched Ike I said, but the creation never EVER moves. I have dubbed it the black hole. When any object touches my creation’s event horizon, physics are flung out the window!
Hey this might sound a bit boring but i was wondering.. What mod are you using to make the logic gates less bright? (logic gates and number logic appear much less "shiny" instead displaying as a much flatter screen) Or what setting are you changing? I've seen a few people show this but i never got to understand how- Thanks to anybody that responds!
Not entirely sure but it's probably that specific one that makes mirror blocks reflective (turned off) So the ice block in the modpack or modpack beta idk anymore...that block will have reflections like a mirror finish (the smooth ice block). The highest graphics setting makes the material reflective (more than usual, like a mirror), and lowering that setting by 1 turns off that extra mirror look... I turn that off all the time. So that in itself might be reflecting some greens and blues from the "environment" that shows up on the orange of the logic gate, making it look more shiny... Other than that, the mods used are the modpack number logic stuff, which if I recall correctly, are using old logic gate textures (since before the survival update) and themselves probably aren't as reflective as the new logic gate textures are made to be; comparing number logic parts with vanilla logic parts might appear differently, not too sure if that's still the case 🤷♂️
I think when they were made, negative does the opposite (pushes down instead of up) ...but yknow how this game is with updates and mods... even idk if that's still the case 😩 you take what you can get I guess...if it works it works
were you a math teacher in a past life or something cause I would kill to have someone explain this sort if math to my kiddo.... however she is only two and may never do well in math. have you ever thought of teaching like school teaching? btw love your content! such fun hope you stay safe and well out there.
The key to learning __ is having a passion for __ I wasn't really ever good at math or teaching...and I still wouldn't say I'm any good, but I have since learned to learn, and discovered a passion for all that this world has to offer and through my interest, pursue understanding What needs to be learned, can literally be anything. How you go about trying to learn it makes all the difference, and this is one major reason why schools are everything that they should be, and yet still don't succeed. Who cares to listen to boring stuff, and why? There's no REASON to WANT to. This has nothing to do with school specifically, but in general you can make life fun to do and fun to experience, and the question "what's next" be asked of you. Especially something like knowledge, does not HAVE to FEEL like a responsibility. It can instead be much more rewarding than something that feels like "work". Or you can use this to show how "work" itself can be rewarding over time..Completely aside from the reasons why schools even want you to be good at anything. A lot of this stuff gets into some philosophical stuff I will eventually try to explain on my other channel Durfology A channel where I want to share with others my perspective on realizing some of this stuff, such that you may come to realize it yourselves for your own lives and your own talents and interests. And you may already have for all I know; the point is just to share my perspective on this stuff in my own way (which itself will be explained on that channel - basically I have a weird way to see the very same things we all see; sharing that is just another perspective to broaden everyone's) But the short answer I can give is that it's all about wanting to do it; a passion. You want your kid to be good at math? Don't make it awful. It could be interesting enough just by itself and it'll happen all on it's own; don't need to try too hard all the wrong things. If you're aware of what the passions are, what the interests are, that is the facet through which to explore all life has to offer. I also want to point out that I'm not your therapist or anything and don't know you personally - take what I say with internet grains of salt. It's just a "way" to think; you can apply that "way" for your own life better than I ever could.
There are issues with "releasing code", especially when it's not my game to do so with 😩 that's just the way it's gotta be if I wanna stay making mods for games There are certain things I can do with the downloaded software on my own PC, and the files I can choose to share, but that's about as far as that goes before it steps into piracy and other agreement violations on steam. Depending on the game it's still a violation of some kind to even make the mod, and I still push my luck for the most part because I know I'm not overstepping certain other boundaries... it's more about having fun, and more fun with the game is a good thing for the games themselves (like sometimes it's the mod that introduced the game entirely to a player); and I like that people have a simple choice to use the mod or not....showing everyone how to make cheats for games is not a good thing for the game...any game just in general, or leaderboard, or achievement progress and rewards, etc.. If I focus on a fun opportunity for the game itself to have an awesome mod, then it's usually all good and avoids those issues legally Thanks for the reminder, I'll put it on my todo list and get it done asap (another update is also coming for Christmas; surely it will need updating again) 👍
It can, yes... But it probably won't be added anytime soon. Modding has kinda stopped for a while now. 😩 We're just waiting for chapter 2 to come out and see if it's still worth it to put in so much effort for mods for this game Check out this followup video explaining the number in more detail: ua-cam.com/video/Z1Ck7elBGk0/v-deo.html Might help more than this one You are absolutely right, and this would go great in a list of constants that are used all the time by players (like PI, this would just be 1 / 3.818...) And there's even more that should be added too, but it's not worth it with the way mod support is in this game. Maybe someday...I hope.
"The Modpack" has this number logic stuff in it If you're completely new to this then you might want to check out the videos on ua-cam.com/users/ScrapMechanicMods for an explanation of how it works.
Check out this video explaining the number logic parts in the modpack ua-cam.com/video/fufv1UeLB5w/v-deo.html This and the other videos will help you understand all the basics of how number logic works, including typing in decimal digits You want a counter block, and a tick button; paint the button a specific color for the digit you want to count up by, and pressing that colored button will count up just that digit, so you can count up by 1, by 10, by 100, or by 0.1, 0.01, 0.001, etc
The angle of that line is what we calculated, by taking the data points rise/run (how far up did it go, divided by, how far across did it go, between 2 data points) So you can do, (Y2 - Y1) / (X2 - X1), and that is like saying 1 / 3.818 (really there are lots of other ways to talk about the line, but this way is useful because...) It's like saying, for every 1 Y unit, you need 3.818 X units. or for every 3.818 X, you need 1 Y, and it will be this line. This is the ratio of this line: 1 / 3.818 People do this all the time when comparing X/Y stuff; they like to reduce one of the sides down to a nice and easy 1.0, to make math super easy, and the other side is a ratio like 1:3.818.... You can verify this for yourself like this: another data point on the line will be 3818,1000 or 19090,5000 And you already know this because the slope of the line is 1/3.818... for every 3.818 x units, you go up 1 y unit... If you are asking why data points collected from MASS-vs-THRUST will always come out as 3.818-vs-1, for Scrap Mechanic, then I think that's a subject for another video / the physics programmed that way. On some level things were just decided arbitrarily (4 blocks is a meter....so what force are thrusters supposed to be anyway? for survival context?!) so I'm not sure if there's any design behind this ratio...so much as just a resulting effect of what was initially programmed as what a thruster does for a value of 1 So because of whatever that decision was, the result of mass value (in arbitrary units of weight...kg? pounds? who knows) between that number and thrust force number, just so happens to be 1/3.818, as proven by any data you can collect from in game mass and thrust There's more game dev conversation to have here but it's not really important...basically if you really put thought into the design of what you're programming, you could come out with any numbers like this you wanted...but then generally game devs aren't even thinking about stuff like this and only think about stuff like "if a player is setting their thrusters to max, it should be able to push how much metal they crafted??", and the numbers just end up being what they chose for that context of gameplay. The math was chosen to play out for what the game play was supposed to be (not that they always do a good job of that lol), so there's no real choice in what the number was as a numerical value
It's probably related to Scrap Mechanic's gravitational constant, whatever it is. In real life on Earth, g is about 9.8 m/s^2. Maybe it's the same in SM (4 blocks = 1 meter). 1/3.8186 would be g in the units [unit of distance]/[unit of time]^2, but I don't know what those units are, so I don't know what it is with the units m/s^2...
One question: What is the ratio between the amount of thrusters and thrust amount? Is is 1:1 linear so that two thrusters needs only half the power and so on?
I’m assuming that it is but then your adding more weight with more thrusters
Yes should be. I last checked this before survival but I don't think it would change
Yes.
The little logic thing that output the neutral buoyancy force is the total force needed for the entire blueprint
Therefore, if you have 5 thrusters on this thing, you can take that buoyancy force number divided by 5, and that will be the force per thruster
From this you can create all kinds of control systems with all kinds of thrusters, based on a relativistic calculation for the blueprint's mass itself, per thruster.
Any number of thrusters; it's just a division of the total force for the blueprint.
Great question! 🧠
"adding more thrusters adds more weight" doesn't matter....the x-o-meter outputs the total mass (including thrusters)
the thrusters "force" pushes against "everything" including it's own mass....basically you don't have to worry about it, thruster mass automatically included in the math.
Like in the video, each time I'd add something on the blueprint the mass number would update; same goes for the thruster updating that number.
It's all included in the calculation ezpz don't even have to think about "oh noes I'm adding", because the magic number got your back
@@Robododobobo That sounds about right. So that the additional weight by added thrusters makes the graph a slightly curved.
That would make it hard to predict the needed thrust force but I think is should be solvable simply by adding a divider to the Durf's system that represents the amount of thrustes, so the practical implementation should still be easy and should obey the same Durf's Constant.
Someone tell me if I'm onto something or completely clueless...
EDIT: not gonna remove this comment, but when I did write this, I didn't yet see Durf's answer which perfectly clarifys my questions in this comment.
@@Durf How much detataded wam should I have?
Kid: No-one needs math, when am I gonna use it?
Durf: Scrap Mechanic
Interesting, I did a similar thing ago before survival came out using a drone that would do all of this automatically, I just kept adding more and more weight until it came out with a number that would work for any weight, I believe the number was like 4.283. Cool to see how the constant has changed over time.
I for one think this is a very useful video for sure! I’m definitely going to make a floating island with this just because of this video. Very interesting, educational and scientific. Thanks for taking the time to do this for your viewers so they can add it to their creations to upgrade them. Thanks Durf.
This is a perfect example of math being fun when you understand what's going on
Usually I click off from videos like this one, but oddly I actually enjoyed it. I guess seeing math or physics implemented in a useful way makes it a lot more fun. You are a great contribution to the community. Keep up the good work ^^
I understood everything and it's really interesting that this works.
This makes me want to calculate a bunch of constants and conversion for SM now...
I'm going to add them to this comment as I figure them out (more below where relevant).
Mass to thrust ratio: 1/3.818
Blocks to meters: --4 blocks / meter-- 3.5343 blocks per meter
Density of water: indeterminate
Density of aluminum: 1449.68 mass/m^3
Mass to kg ratio: 3.91 kg/mass
Gravity: 37.28 blocks/s^2 = 10.548 m/s^2
Thruster force to Newtons multiplier: 0.016672
Notes:
Density of water: unfortunately this can't be calculated, as SM uses its own buoyancy values to determine how water interactions work, rather than using density.
Density of aluminum: very important, the only block in SM that specifically is marked as a real life material, allowing us to use it as a metric to convert to and from irl mass units
Gravity: calculated via the acceleration mode in the x-ometer
Mass to Kg: Determined by real life mass of aluminum
Blocks to meters: I determined that my original estimate was incorrect based on the GasEngine lua file in the survival game scripts. There is a variable called "RadPerSecond_1MeterPerSecondOn3BlockDiameterTyres", which is set to 2.6666667. I have updated all values here based on this, I have updated all values
Damn nice work
@@stanislavspacek2270 I just realized that my conversion for blocks to meters was wrong, so I have updated it and all information based on it based on information gleamed from the game's files
Thats awesome, Ive always wanted to do this!
I hope scrap mechanic science becomes a series
Lol do more math videos, they are super entertaining
8:42 my wifi stopped right there and i thought i wasn’t moving XD
durf is recreating my internet speed
thanks for reminding me to do my algebra hw
😜
thanks you
@@Durfedit : i did it already and submitted it
I did the same experiment some time ago, except i used the velocity x-o-meter.
I compared the vertical velocity to the velocity one tick ago to get the vertical acceleration(I did this because the normal acceleration gauge cant output negative numbers).
Based on acceleration the creation automaticaly adjusted the thrust: for every block/s/s of accel lower thrust by x amount
With this more complicated setup I got the number of *1/3.81 863 75 thrust units per weight units* (the same as in the video)
(Note that because of the freezing mechanic at the equilibrium the thrust starts lowering until the cration starts falling and then it jumps up again, so the number is only an estimation)
TL,DR: did this a more complicated way got a number of 3.81 863 75
This video is amazing try keep this experiment it's so good
to keep the creation level u would need 4 in the 4 corners but that would add more thrust so to account for then u also need to divide by the nuber of thrusters u have
man slowly descends into madness while trying to explain high school physics
Another way to do this is to just have something change thruster power until an altitude is reached, similar concept as it likely has a base of what you made but it also doesn't slowly drift up or down
OMG! I did this too! but I arrived at 0.2618735 as multiplier for the mass! I used a x-o meter set to altitude to measure upward and downward change in altitude until it was stable, and added/subtracted using tick button in decreasing value (0.1, 0.01, 0.001, on so on) to power a gimbal thruster.
1 divided by 3.818 is close to my multiplier!
This is amazing
Using that constant, what is the gravitational constant for SM? We know that 4 blocks is a meter, so you should be able to calculate it...
If the force as an input of the thrusters is using the ingame unit "blocks" and seconds instead of ticks, then the gravitational constant would be 0.065479 m/s².
F = m/3.818 -> m/F = 3.818 Since F=m*a, we can reduce it to 1/a = 3.818 so we know 1/3.818 is already the gravitational acceleration (but in blocks/seconds²). Divide that by 4 (if 4 blocks ingame are equal to 1 meter) to get the acceleration in m/s².
Since 0.065479 m/s² is nothing close to the real gravitation, some unit must be wrong. I tried the calculation with blocks/ticks², but that was more than ten times as much as it should be. Perhaps the input of the thrusters in not using blocks and seconds (or ticks), but some unrelated number.
Maybe Durf can tell us what the number represents. Maybe I am totally wrong and just made a mistake.
edit:
The thruster input might just be a multiplier for the vanilla thruster, which can be totally arbitrary. For better calculation we need to know how the vanilla thruster is calculating thrust, but in most cases, this part is super complicated in video games, because it goes down to pixels and viewing angles. But after all, I don't know the game code and I'm not able to figure this out by myself any further.
@@Samuel-lk6xb You are big brain.
Yea to calculate this you need the actual unit for weight in the game, which is just arbitrary and idk if they stay the same over some game updates 😩
But to give you an idea of where the calculations might be getting tied up:
Metal Blocks was a "weight value" of 1250 in the JSON files...what does this mean? It might be referring to a 1m² of the material...as in, 4x4x4 BLOCKS, a total of 64 blocks
So the "weight" of 1250 applies to 64 blocks
The number for concrete used to be 500 even, and wood was light weight with 250
Since the survival update, I have no idea what the specific numbers are, but I'm pretty sure they are in reference to a 4x4x4 block size
Using the x-o-meter to verify this might be a pain since it'll count the x-o-meter's mass with anything you slap it on (which is a fraction of 1 block of whatever weight class it is, because it has a "hull" collision instead of a cube or sphere or cylinder....yea custom collision calculates mass differently...>_>)
You should be able to calculate the same Gforce even if you change units tho, since the relation between the units is what you're calculating, so yea even I'm confused lol..what are we doing again? xD
I think you got it, just as a fraction of the 4x4x4 size
@@Durf Well, the gravitational force is dependent on mass, but the acceleration constant is completely independent of it (F = m*a; a = v/t). So we should be able to figure out something, but I think to get any more information, we need to do some horizontal acceleration tests, which are independent of gravitation. With that, we could find out how fast something accelerates at a specific force (that would require zero friction). Do the same mass with the same force, but this time upwards and you can get the gravitational acceleration from the difference of these two measurements.
I can tell durf was good at maths in school
Welcome to physics…. But interesting
Hey just be glad my examples weren't with trucks of fruit like the schools do xD that's a thing in SM
@@Durf I didn’t even think of the guy in the math problem but now that’s all I’m gonna be thinking about for the next four hours
Dude, if this is school, then I’m gonna do ALL my homework
this was a great video, really interesting exactly my cup o' duck
What about my 256x256x256 Concrete 3 block?
That's awesome 👌 but what is the thrust value of the vanilla thruster... so I know how to change the mass of the creation?
That's a good question.
Over the years the "numbers" used in vanilla thrusters have changed slightly (and with modded thrusters like "wacky thruster" among others)
Since then, things seemed to have settled down with survival mode, and there's just the 5 levels of vanilla thrusters in survival mode.
In the game JSON files, you can find the vanilla thrusters, and get these "numbers" for what the thruster levels mean (level 5 thruster set to power 50% = some number)
Another way you could "get the value" is with this very same test I did in this video, except different:
Start with a neutrally buoyant creation floating in the air; it must have the vanilla thruster you want to test, AND a number logic thruster pointed the opposite way
Heck you don't need to do this test up/down, can just be on a loose piston horizontally... or in zero gravity
Anyway, you turn on the vanilla thruster, it's pushing the creation on way, you count up the number thruster until it's equal force....you have the "number" of vanilla force
Same test as this video applied differently.
Although I think the number in the JSON file should be the same result...no reason why it wouldn't be...when number thrusters were made, "force" units were the same as any other afaik.
now make a creation with a 1x10^7 mass and thrust it upwards.
I kinda feel maybe if it's neutrally bouyant, it's going to keep moving in the direction it's pushed, since there isn't any air friction in scrap mechanic (is there?) so adding blocks until the contraption stops isn't making it neutrally bouyant, you're making it slightly negatively bouyant. though that's probably small enough to be negligible.
I'm pretty sure there is air resistance in scrap mechanic, and nothing was pushing the creation other than the thruster, so it was moving upo because there was too much thrust
Discovered something hilarious in Scrap Mechanic for an elevator that doesn't use engines. Setup 4 column's or a large metal tube like in the 'dynamic' elevator, make a compartment. Use a pipe with bearing's to place 4 wheel on the top and bottom of the compartment or in this manner the top, though do not have the wheel's touching the wall in this state. Your wanting to setup your bearing in the pipe's to move the wheels to the wall using a controller. Discovered in survival if the bearings over extend beyond the wall or press up against it, then Scrap Mechanic Phyisics is going to do something weird with the energy and push it upwards... which I have no idea why as I set the wheels up on the bottom to perform this task without the engine touching to make sure I had the proper degrees to get it to work.... and instead found myself flying.
Gotta love Desmos
next: how to fix scrap mechanic (cuz axolot didn’t yet)
-download raft-
durf should have a nickname: Durf the SM Physics Bender
How were going to call this? Durf's Constant?
mhhh
why not just "mass to thrust ratio"
quiru? is that you?
@@michaserafin5776 indeed it is!
1/g
wow. just wow.
damn i love this guy
question: HOW i tryed and its not working i put a memory block with 3.818 in it and it gos down
Here I do a followup video: ua-cam.com/video/Z1Ck7elBGk0/v-deo.html
You might be seeing the effect that the lift has on objects (if you just took it off the lift, it goes down, but if it was placed "naturally" in the world, it doesn't go down)
Check it out because I go into more specifics about the number and how to get it
....also just to make sure...your thrusters are ON right? xD it's hard to help when it's just "it doesn't work"...when it works fine for me 😅
I'm pretty sure it's just that lift thing; everything you spawn in gets a little downwards push
So putting something under it to stop it from going down (then removing it), you should see the antigrav number working just fine
@@Durf it slowly goes down and i have seen the other video its just hard to get the number in the counter so i used a memory block
Durf out of context: plaztic
Genius.
if you're putting multiple gimbles on do you need to divide by the number by the number of gimbles?
Yes, precisely
pretty cool huh?
A lot easier to calculate relative to the number of thrusters / total creation mass
😁
@@Durf you could use some funky math so the craft wouldn't drop as soon as you loose one thruster, I'm guessing constant value, an add block (which you tie all of the thruster bases to) and then use that to divide, would that work?
If so would make an interesting multiplayer challenge, try and shoot down the other craft
Great when you want a floating target but wont fly away when fragments fall.
until the thruster falls
@@vibaj16 thats gonna be at the core. A gimbal thruster. Thats the objective.
How you are
Nice video
i dont have the game but im liking the video for a hopeful future of when i do XD
Um, Question: just made a hover module after seeing this, has all the logic nice and compact so I can put it in anything. However, every time I step on it I get launched to -infinity in all directions(I used fant to see this, tried without fant and still does this). Why?
This is a difficult question to answer without actually seeing what you did / if you could see it enough to explain in your comment then you wouldn't be asking I think
I suspect the math is incorrect, like you're doing multiplied by 3.818 instead of mass divded by 3.818, or really I'm not sure...I'd have to make assumptions since I have no idea what you built.
What I did was have my creation (any mass)
The mass x-o-meter is on there, with mass number
Math block in division mode (white number divided by black number)
Counter block with the number 3.818 (painted black)
The mass meter and counter block are both connecting into the math block division, and that output is the total thruster force for the blueprint.
The important bit there is the paint color, so the division is done correctly (numerator divided by the denominator; at least one of the inputs should be painted white or black, so the math block knows what number is what)
...the strange part is that a mistake like this would make it NOT fly at all...not fly away....so I really don't know what you built xD
@@Durf Man, no I’m even more confused. The structure is literally just the gimbal, mass o meter, counter, math block set to division. Everything is painted correctly. The glitches are even more confusing though. I did some testing, and the device is crazy. The creations is literally frozen in mid air, if any block falls on it, that block disappears, and if I push a block into it with a piston, the piston starts freaking out, and the block on the piston sometimes just stops existing! If my character ever steps on the device, my character gets launched Ike I said, but the creation never EVER moves. I have dubbed it the black hole. When any object touches my creation’s event horizon, physics are flung out the window!
#DurfyeTheScienceGuy
XD
Hey this might sound a bit boring but i was wondering.. What mod are you using to make the logic gates less bright? (logic gates and number logic appear much less "shiny" instead displaying as a much flatter screen) Or what setting are you changing?
I've seen a few people show this but i never got to understand how-
Thanks to anybody that responds!
Not entirely sure but it's probably that specific one that makes mirror blocks reflective (turned off)
So the ice block in the modpack or modpack beta idk anymore...that block will have reflections like a mirror finish (the smooth ice block).
The highest graphics setting makes the material reflective (more than usual, like a mirror), and lowering that setting by 1 turns off that extra mirror look... I turn that off all the time.
So that in itself might be reflecting some greens and blues from the "environment" that shows up on the orange of the logic gate, making it look more shiny...
Other than that, the mods used are the modpack number logic stuff, which if I recall correctly, are using old logic gate textures (since before the survival update) and themselves probably aren't as reflective as the new logic gate textures are made to be; comparing number logic parts with vanilla logic parts might appear differently, not too sure if that's still the case
🤷♂️
I'm wondering what would happen if you put a negative number into the gymbal thruster
I think when they were made, negative does the opposite (pushes down instead of up)
...but yknow how this game is with updates and mods... even idk if that's still the case 😩 you take what you can get I guess...if it works it works
Hey durf. WHen are you going to drop another gmys? I've been waiting to see my creation for so heckin' long. Have a nice day!
More SM Science please?
I'm guessing neutral buoyancy under water is dependent on the material used?
Ohh... Cool!
amazienng
yes scep mecnick
were you a math teacher in a past life or something cause I would kill to have someone explain this sort if math to my kiddo.... however she is only two and may never do well in math. have you ever thought of teaching like school teaching?
btw love your content! such fun hope you stay safe and well out there.
The key to learning __ is having a passion for __
I wasn't really ever good at math or teaching...and I still wouldn't say I'm any good, but I have since learned to learn, and discovered a passion for all that this world has to offer and through my interest, pursue understanding
What needs to be learned, can literally be anything. How you go about trying to learn it makes all the difference, and this is one major reason why schools are everything that they should be, and yet still don't succeed. Who cares to listen to boring stuff, and why? There's no REASON to WANT to.
This has nothing to do with school specifically, but in general you can make life fun to do and fun to experience, and the question "what's next" be asked of you.
Especially something like knowledge, does not HAVE to FEEL like a responsibility. It can instead be much more rewarding than something that feels like "work".
Or you can use this to show how "work" itself can be rewarding over time..Completely aside from the reasons why schools even want you to be good at anything.
A lot of this stuff gets into some philosophical stuff I will eventually try to explain on my other channel Durfology
A channel where I want to share with others my perspective on realizing some of this stuff, such that you may come to realize it yourselves for your own lives and your own talents and interests. And you may already have for all I know; the point is just to share my perspective on this stuff in my own way (which itself will be explained on that channel - basically I have a weird way to see the very same things we all see; sharing that is just another perspective to broaden everyone's)
But the short answer I can give is that it's all about wanting to do it; a passion. You want your kid to be good at math? Don't make it awful.
It could be interesting enough just by itself and it'll happen all on it's own; don't need to try too hard all the wrong things.
If you're aware of what the passions are, what the interests are, that is the facet through which to explore all life has to offer.
I also want to point out that I'm not your therapist or anything and don't know you personally - take what I say with internet grains of salt.
It's just a "way" to think; you can apply that "way" for your own life better than I ever could.
"Nolage is power"
hey durf. just wanted to ask for the name of your outro song, it's quite nice :D
niceee!!
G in scrap mechanic
You hear that ladies?! FOUND IT
durf do you want to join OUR serveur scrap mécanique by Dr pixel ?
Durf you should update your human fall flat mod and make it open source. I’ve had a lot of fun using it
There are issues with "releasing code", especially when it's not my game to do so with 😩 that's just the way it's gotta be if I wanna stay making mods for games
There are certain things I can do with the downloaded software on my own PC, and the files I can choose to share, but that's about as far as that goes before it steps into piracy and other agreement violations on steam. Depending on the game it's still a violation of some kind to even make the mod, and I still push my luck for the most part because I know I'm not overstepping certain other boundaries... it's more about having fun, and more fun with the game is a good thing for the games themselves (like sometimes it's the mod that introduced the game entirely to a player); and I like that people have a simple choice to use the mod or not....showing everyone how to make cheats for games is not a good thing for the game...any game just in general, or leaderboard, or achievement progress and rewards, etc.. If I focus on a fun opportunity for the game itself to have an awesome mod, then it's usually all good and avoids those issues legally
Thanks for the reminder, I'll put it on my todo list and get it done asap (another update is also coming for Christmas; surely it will need updating again) 👍
can this become a function block function?
It can, yes... But it probably won't be added anytime soon. Modding has kinda stopped for a while now. 😩
We're just waiting for chapter 2 to come out and see if it's still worth it to put in so much effort for mods for this game
Check out this followup video explaining the number in more detail: ua-cam.com/video/Z1Ck7elBGk0/v-deo.html Might help more than this one
You are absolutely right, and this would go great in a list of constants that are used all the time by players (like PI, this would just be 1 / 3.818...)
And there's even more that should be added too, but it's not worth it with the way mod support is in this game. Maybe someday...I hope.
Can someone tell me what mod this is
"The Modpack" has this number logic stuff in it
If you're completely new to this then you might want to check out the videos on ua-cam.com/users/ScrapMechanicMods for an explanation of how it works.
How do you type in a number like .818
Check out this video explaining the number logic parts in the modpack
ua-cam.com/video/fufv1UeLB5w/v-deo.html
This and the other videos will help you understand all the basics of how number logic works, including typing in decimal digits
You want a counter block, and a tick button; paint the button a specific color for the digit you want to count up by, and pressing that colored button will count up just that digit, so you can count up by 1, by 10, by 100, or by 0.1, 0.01, 0.001, etc
Where does the 3.818 comes from? I am dumb, so I need to understand why 3.818
The angle of that line is what we calculated, by taking the data points rise/run (how far up did it go, divided by, how far across did it go, between 2 data points)
So you can do, (Y2 - Y1) / (X2 - X1), and that is like saying 1 / 3.818 (really there are lots of other ways to talk about the line, but this way is useful because...)
It's like saying, for every 1 Y unit, you need 3.818 X units. or for every 3.818 X, you need 1 Y, and it will be this line. This is the ratio of this line: 1 / 3.818
People do this all the time when comparing X/Y stuff; they like to reduce one of the sides down to a nice and easy 1.0, to make math super easy, and the other side is a ratio like 1:3.818....
You can verify this for yourself like this:
another data point on the line will be 3818,1000 or 19090,5000
And you already know this because the slope of the line is 1/3.818... for every 3.818 x units, you go up 1 y unit...
If you are asking why data points collected from MASS-vs-THRUST will always come out as 3.818-vs-1, for Scrap Mechanic, then I think that's a subject for another video / the physics programmed that way. On some level things were just decided arbitrarily (4 blocks is a meter....so what force are thrusters supposed to be anyway? for survival context?!) so I'm not sure if there's any design behind this ratio...so much as just a resulting effect of what was initially programmed as what a thruster does for a value of 1
So because of whatever that decision was, the result of mass value (in arbitrary units of weight...kg? pounds? who knows) between that number and thrust force number, just so happens to be 1/3.818, as proven by any data you can collect from in game mass and thrust
There's more game dev conversation to have here but it's not really important...basically if you really put thought into the design of what you're programming, you could come out with any numbers like this you wanted...but then generally game devs aren't even thinking about stuff like this and only think about stuff like "if a player is setting their thrusters to max, it should be able to push how much metal they crafted??", and the numbers just end up being what they chose for that context of gameplay.
The math was chosen to play out for what the game play was supposed to be (not that they always do a good job of that lol), so there's no real choice in what the number was as a numerical value
@@Durf Thanks, I really appreciate The time for the explanation, you have my graditude, really, thanks alot
Cool
do you mean the gravity of the planet?
I mesured 3.8186
Does anybody have an idea where this constant comes from?
It's probably related to Scrap Mechanic's gravitational constant, whatever it is. In real life on Earth, g is about 9.8 m/s^2. Maybe it's the same in SM (4 blocks = 1 meter). 1/3.8186 would be g in the units [unit of distance]/[unit of time]^2, but I don't know what those units are, so I don't know what it is with the units m/s^2...
SOUP
Bingo
where do i go to apeal a discord ban
siatncs
sayens
I know you
@@barryisashiba we know him
@@beaclaster lol
@@beaclaster hehe
I’m number 5!
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