My family owns a $10M landscape and design company and everything he said about the fabric is correct. He just showed you why. It’s the better way to do it . If you choose not to that’s your prerogative but it will be prone to packing the stone which must stay clean for best results. He never said without fabric it wouldn’t work. It’s a difference of quality and life of the drain working well
What I don't understand is why you wouldn't. You dug all the trenches and holes, you bought the gravel. The fabric is going to be such a small percentage of the total costs, so why not do it? I have my holes dug and gravel ready, but after researching a bit I just ordered some fabric and will be putting it in tomorrow before filling everything back up.
I've seen in commercial, maybe large commercial like dams and levees, projects that they use sand instead of fabric. I'm curious what the scale must be for sand to be more efficient or cost effective over fabric...
This is a GREAT visual demonstration. I have been researching French drains for a couple years now for a 195 ft run I need to put in. Absolutely love the surface drain in conjunction with the French drain Thanks so much 🌎 ☮
The link for the 6oz fabric is broken, likely not available by the seller. Can you post a new link or more detail description so we can search it ourselves. Thanks
Yes it does - for the same reason other filters clog over time & must be replaced (coffee or water filters, for example). Leaving access to periodically flush soil build-up in french drains seems to be the best solution. There's a special jet tip that goes on the end of a pressure washer hose that is great for DIYers - and can even clear clogged lines. Much better than having to dig up & redo the filter-wrapped french drain when the clay clogs it, & they also remove ground water faster.
@@deecee2837 that pressure washer hose with jet tip .? .. I used it to clean out the pipe between the septic tank and distribution box. Then, used it up thru all 6 outlets to the distribution box to keep the leach field working. (75ft of line) It was a S#!tty job . .. but somebody😳needed to do it..
anything on the surface of stone will encourage clogging, thus why we don't put grass back on top. Decorative stone looks nice but more importantly prevents soil/clay from clogging up the drain.
Yes... and no. Like he said, you must use the proper fabric. The landscaping fabric at big box stores won't work. Geo-textiles does work and will not clog and they allow water through much faster than landscaping fabric. You can actually get different fabrics that have different flow characteristics. It's the same stuff they put under roads to have proper drainage underneath them, otherwise they wouldn't last long due to ice heave and erosion.
Man this is a great video! It explained how these thing work and helped me figure out how I want to set up my drainage system. Thank you! for putting this together.
We have been installing lawn drains as a company for probably 50 years with thousands of customers and never use any fabric at all. And we have never had any issues with our lawn drains.
We don’t have much slop in our back yard and water is a huge problem. This coming spring I am planing to put in French drains and I am hearing to use fabric and then not to use coming from the same UA-camr. At this point I am planing on a stepping stone walkway with French drains on both sides with no fabric. This is the lowest point of the yard with very little slop so may have to put in sump pump system. Can you tell me if this sounds the correct way of doing it ?
Sure, & the follow-up customer service agent is Helen Waite….😂 If you can even get through the Fax machine that always *answers* a customer calling in…..
I’m In Massachusetts and I used to install septics. Schedule 40 is what is used for all piping. It’s actually very strong and if it cracked in the winter I’d imagine every septic in the state would have failed. There is a solid pipe that is pretty thin walled which you might be referring to but schedule 40 has about a 1/4 inch wall.
@@Luckingsworth I literally put in hundreds of septic systems. My septic is only a foot or two down not 4 feet. My tank only has 6 inches of cover meaning my piping is within 2 feet. Which is well within the frost line.
@@JasonTheMunicipalMechanic you cant drill holes in PVC in 360 degrees like corrugated. If you do it will weaken the pipe and cause fail. PVC rigidity is its weakness. It cracks easily. Corrugated also has a self cleaning action due to turbulence, that prevents clogging. Corrugated is THE standard in public contracting drainage for a reason. But go ahead, build your french drain with PVC. See how that works out for you.
@@cryengine_x pvc doesn’t have holes drilled 360 around it. It has 2 rows of holes 120 degrees apart that you put down on the bottom and the water flows up into them. The holes are also much bigger I believe 5/8 inch. Thank you for the lesson, You don’t even know what product I’m talking about. If schedule 40 broke in the frost then every single septic in my state would be ruined, schedule 40 is the code for septic piping in Massachusetts, and no every septic is not under the frost line. Mine is not and many I installed are not either. My leach field is literally made of this perforated pipe and only about 2 feet down. Also these septics have plans that are draw by engineers and approved be the town so it’s not just some guy burying stuff. So yeah I do have that as drainage and it works just fine.
I’ve done both ways with and without the fabric. The water flow pretty good either way while there testing after the install. No matter which one you choose you’ll still have to clean the system. The fabric will give you a some extra time.
@@blackdogleg if you are trying to capture surface water that is true. However if the goal is to capture ground water at the footer then it creates a low pressure point for the hydrostatic pressure created by all the water in the ground. It’ll seep in there rather than your CMU
The best solution is probably going to be schedule 40 pipe with crushed stone all the way to the surface. Add decorative rock on the surface to make it look a little nicer.
We usually place the "non-woven" filter fabric along the bottom of the trench, place some #57 stone in the bottom (3-4inches thick) place the pipe and cover it with 6-8 inches of stone. Then wrap the stone with the fabric to create a "burrito" effect encapsulating the stone. This prevents soil from getting to the pipe from all directions, top, sides and bottom. Then backfill the trench. In commercial use we backfill with mason sand or concrete sand above the fabric.
Thats the best way to do it, IF youre putting soil back on tip. That being said youre still reducing the effectiveness of the drain by putting soil/grass on top
@@lawn-n-orderlandscaping1389 weird cus french drain man swears put the pipe on very bottom, against the filter fabric. he says do NOT put any gravel under the pipe. He says that only means you will have standing water in the bottom of the drain up to the pipe all the time (example, if you have 4" of gravel under your pipe, then you would have up to 4" of standing water in the bottom of your drain). I can see this might be true. But I think the reason for the gravel (besides it being a good drainage material I suppose) is to dry out and kill roots trying to reach the pipe which would clog it. So the gravel can be thought of as a root barrier. In that case, you WOULD want gravel under the pipe. If you just have filter fabric under the pipe, you figure that filter fabric is NOT going to holds off roots forever. So basically I can see both ways being correct and dont know the correct answer :(
@@cryengine_x fabric eventually biodegrades. Also gravel doesn't hold water... unless your drain is flat, which wouldn't work anyways. We like the water to slow down a little at the base of the drain, but use the pipe as an escape for fast flash floods. Using the 3/4 gravel, the drain will almost function without the pipe entirely, until a hurricane comes through, that's when you need the pipe.
@@lawn-n-orderlandscaping1389 eventually but the key is how long, 30 yrs? if you use good stuff not home depot junk as many seem too. if gravel drains then it definitely holds water, thats the point of the whole void system and the whole drain really. if the dirt absorbed that water the drain wouldn't be needed
Great demo. French drains are for ground water. People need to remember that. If surface water is the issue, you use non-perforated pipe and the surface drains.
You get surface water from compacted top soil or saturated ground soil. French drain should take care of both. If your getting surface water is mostly because you have compacted top soil. You need to aerate. Or your French drain is clogged. I'm not sure about clay. I know Clay holds surface water . Not sure if it does any good aerating. But here in Illinois it's 99 percent compacted top soil if surface is holding water and there's no ground water
@@jheiny1231 I owned a home outside Chicago and battled surface and groundwater on multiple fronts from multiple sources. The house was the low one amongst the neighbors. There's not enough aeration in the world to deal with what I was dealing with. I tackled it with regrading for a swale, a concrete curb between the driveway and house, French drain to the drain tile on the uphill side, and 150' of buried downspouts and sump pump discharge to the ditch out front.
It sounds like you have some other issues. Your yard shouldn't hold surface water if there's a French drain running under it. If it does there's 2 issues there.. 1 your soil is compacted and the water can't penetrate the top layer of soil or 2 the French drain was installed incorrectly and in the wrong spot. There is absolutely no reason to run surface drains in a homes yard. Surface drains are good for concrete and asphalt surfaces. The French drain starts literally right after the sod. There should b no reason water couldn't penetrate 2inches of soil to make it in the French drain system. That of course if the French drain was installed in the right spot and correctly installed. Been doing yard drainage solutions for 14 years. There is rare occasions a surface drain is applicable. But 99 percent of the time its not
I don't know why I'm seeing this now, but here goes: Your assertion that "there's no reason to run surface drains in a home's yard" is as wrong-headed as it gets. I told you I was in a bowl. That means neighbors properties flooding mine with running surface water during storms. Literally two temporary creeks. All that surface water coming at me, and with a basement in the house (which punches a hole in the top cap of clay in my area), where do you think that surface water was going? I had to mitigate it BEFORE it migrated into the soil. A French drain can only mitigate as deep as the trench (my basement is 6-8 feet deeper). The best way to manage ground water is to not let it become ground water in your area of concern. Swale (grading) is #1. Surface drains are #2 (so much faster/more efficient).
I’m in Minnesota with a clay yard and ground water. Our pool has schedule 40 pipe. It was build in 2003. We’ve never had an issue and the freeze/thaw cycle here is intense.
ewryone says that use fabric caus then the gravel dont clog up. But dont the poors in the fabric clog up also over time due to the same "problem"? Filter fabric its a filter all filters clog up....kinda the whole idea of a filter?
I'm a retired drainer. In Australia, 60 years ago, we built these drains without cloth. We put newspapers on top of the gravel and covered that with soil. And we don't call em french drains.
The name 'French Drain" comes from a Massachusetts guy, Henry French, who wrote about this type of drainage that we now (at least in the US) name after him. He never claimed to have invented this style of drainage, but his booklet about them greatly popularized the method. His writings were published back around the 1850s - 1860s, I believe.
#4 Connect the French drain and below water drain to the same pipe. It saves you pipe by using only one. And probably add a filter on that French drain inlet.
It isn't a good idea to have a yard drain connected to a perforated pipe. It introduces too much water into the ground around the pipe, saturating the soil you are trying to keep dry
Great video, great idea for testing, great effort ... You get an A+, sir. Couldn't help notice though that the first setup, sans the landscaping/drainage fabric, seemed to have the fastest throughout by far, but I guess you mentioned that was bc it was dry and subsequent storms would find the clay compacted. Well, thanks bud, we appreciate it. Btw... I'm standing outside over a couple sections of new corrugated pipe wondering how many drill holes to put in it, where and what size (thinking 3/16ths or 1/4"...?)c right here in good old WILMINGTON, NC
Just had to dig up the french drain i set only one year ago and pull all the fabric out as was blocked, really disappointing. Just Reset it without any fabric now and just refilled the trench with rock already draining a lot better
@@donnyh3497 clay soil. Working great still without fabric and drains well when wet outside. I ensured it was tight to soil and filled on top with large chips.
Hi, I'm thinking about just doing it with rock alone too. Curious, did you originally use the non-woven punched fabric? I'm reading where the clay is not suppose to clog that... but a filter is a filter, and they eventually clog. Of course I guess the rock alone will eventually clog too
This was very helpful. How my inches of stone should be under the pipe, and how far should dig from the sunken or level land for the best to redirect and catch the water?
Great video. I don't know haw many times I have tried to explain this to clients and students. What are your thoughts on using a course river sand instead of drainage aggregate and geotextile.
@@joshuacoffelt9300 My understanding is that with sand and pavers up top, you'd not have much of a French drain. Water has to flow down into it, unless the plan is to use an open pipe instead and have water come up from the bottom, into holes in the bottom of the pipe and hope it stays in the pipe long enough to flow out. My initial comment was more about recognizing a drainage system that takes care of both surface water and water not much under the surface. If the water table is really low, several feet, and causing foundation issues, that's a different thing. Most times. we're dealing with more _near-surface_ issues that will seep down and cause problems. The thinking is, if you snag the water from up top, it won't go down and cause problems.
Covering a french drain with more permeable decorative stuff works great. I built a few like that around my house. 4 or so. Here's 2 of them. The other two are 1. Under a brick patio. And 2. Under decorative brick edging by a driveway. These next two i have videos of. French drain topped with 2 types of stone and limestone pavers. ua-cam.com/video/PhbNnFNnKCc/v-deo.html At 1 minute in is another example. 2 foot deep french drain ringing a garage covered with stone and cement pavers. ua-cam.com/video/BSz8iMO2LOQ/v-deo.html
Thanks for a great demonstration! It is very interesting to see how the fabric keeps the clay particulates from clogging the gravel. But in your video, there was no clay underneath or alongside the lower level of gravel (that encircling the pipe) - just the plastic of the bin. I live in Ky., and have to deal with hard pan clay. Obviously, I'll have clay on the bottom and along the sides of the trench - not plastic. I am building more of a curtain drain (shallower trench alongside a sidewalk, for the runoff). In the situation of short, "average" rainfall, I was counting on the stone to hold the water until it gradually percs into the clay. In a heavy downpour, because the clay percolates slowly, it's going to act more like a french drain. I plan on placing a 4" perf. flex pipe on a bed of small, smooth river stones, then fill with gravel and top with pea gravel for the look. I am not using any soil in the back fill. So do I use fabric or not? Using the logic from your demo, it would seem that using fabric on the bottom and sides of the trench would be needed, to keep the clay on the bottom and sides from eventually clogging up the channels in the gravel. I have looked at so many Apple Drain videos with Chuck that my head is spinning about what to do.... Any advice is greatly appreciated! BTW I am a 63 year old woman and doing this by myself!
Add the 4, 6 and 8oz fabric thickness choice and oh yea, instant headache...I think seperating the gravel and soil makes sense. Chuck has a video where the water struggles to get through - but is that 8oz fabric? Water flows through 4oz easily. I'm going put fabric in the trench, (I think it's 4oz) then pipe and gravel (rougher gravel moves more water) and on top, staple the fabric across the top to the side top corner, so there's only 1 layer on top and fabric won't move. Then more gravel on top so there's maximum amount of cavities for the water. My pipes drain into tubs where 2x12volt bilge pumps take water out...yep, headaches....
Hi Melanie I am currently working on a french drain project also and it's honestly been a nightmare. You sound like you want to get rid of surface water along the side so I would just put fabric on the bottom and the side and then I would fill to the top with gravel, the only problem is if you have dispersive clay this then blocks the outside of the fabric which is why some people are telling you it doesn't work because actually after a while the clay blocks the outside not the inside, however without the fabric clay blocks the gravel and pipe instead? I think if I were you I would just use a light fabric all over because you may have a problem with debris like leaves clogging the gravel in which case do the main trench in fabric on the bottom and sides and then cut a top separate fabric and thin layer of gravel over the top, this would be easy to rip out and put new stuff in every couple of years if the top layer of gravel gets blocked without taking out the whole drain. If you don't have dispersive clay then it's not so important to use different weight of fabric or fabric at all. You can do a test easy by putting your soil into a dish of water and see if it stays in a ball or if it gently breaks apart.
@@lala_land86 I'm no expert but if you've got clay, you need to get the water away. I wrapped the gravel and flex perf pipe with fabric and liquid nailed it shut so zero dirt can enter. These 10"round "sausages" work well, key points are: - dig good fall into the trench. - at the lowest point I dug a hole for a large bucket with holes. - put a 750 gallon per hour, 12 volt bilge pump in the bucket to pump the water away from the problem area. - to power it you need to know pumps use up to 4 times their operating power use on starting. So multiply 12volt x 3 amp = 36watts, then multiply by 4, so 150 watt 12 volt supply is reqd.
@@lyndamiller453 Haa,I love the way you explained yourself..!, 74, living in KY,clay dirt, doing it myself thought I had it down about what to do , watched this video ! now my brain hurts! totally totally confused !!
Great demonstration! Do you ever add a filter at the open grate at the top that catches surface water? I’m interested in a French drain for my large shed (15 foot x 20 foot) water coming from getters down the down pipe. Thanks! Going to watch more of your videos now😀
This is about the 100th video I've watched about clay and fabric and I'm still confused. I'm thinking about just doing it with rock alone. A filter is a filter... wether it is a fabric filter or a rock filter, wether it is non-woven or not. If it's filtering the clay, where does that filtered clay go??? and they all eventually clog. Seems like a fabric filter would clog much faster than rock... I'm leaning on using 6" smooth perforated PVC pipe with 90 degree sweep elbow clean outs on each end, (round grates on top) and just run a pressure washer drain snake attachment through it every couple of years. Surround the pipe with about 1" rock. The smooth pipe bottom should help it clean easier?? Seems like the rock might tend to clog from the top anyway, and not the sides or bottom, due to gravity... I'd rather deal with that down the road than pulling the whole thing due to clogged fabric.
Not true. I am a geotechnical inspector and look at these in volume every single day. Like the presenter said, all fabrics aren’t equal. Use a rated geo fabric designed for professionals and it will last decades. Rock is not a filter. It’s open graded, containing pores in which water and soil will travel rather quickly. As this happens, not only does your system become clogged but you generate voids in the fill above the drain. This introduces a whole new set of potential problems. Settlement, trip hazards, irregular surfaces and failures. It all depends on what’s above the drain. The soils go down and they leave voids. I’ve seen them travel all the way up to the surface and create large sinkholes. Use the fabric it’ll save you a lot of headaches! You can omit the fabric if you use a rated filter rock but it’s very expensive and the quarries will bait and switch by selling you a product that “looks” good but won’t work. Filter rock is highly engineered and must be tested to confirm that it is what it is! Like I said, it’s expensive. I hope this helps you a little.
@@benkenobi671 Hi Ben! I hope I get the intent of your question, I had to watch the video again to see what you are talking about. There are 3 possible answers. If you're talking about the appearance of soil you can see through the box, below the fabric, I'm guessing that when building the box some soil got in there. If you're looking at the presence of muddy water in the solid pipe, that migrated there from the top during surface drainage. Most clay floats to a certain extent. If you look at the perf pipe on the right of the box, there's no water. Given time there will be. Lastly the possibility exists that the muddy water in the box rolled down the side of the box around the outside of the fabric into the rock. All of this presents an interesting scenario that we use in large commercial construction where the stakes are very high if one of these systems fail. I've been called out to mitigate failed drainage systems that contributed to retaining wall failure that jeopardized life and limb and shut down a whole Home Depot parking lot for ages. Big bucks! Soil migration into rock is a serious situation and can cause disasters. We recommend in our geotechnical reports that all sub drains/wall drains have a burrito drain installed at the base of the wall. This prevents water migrating into the rock from unwanted areas and almost removes failure options. When installed, the rock/pipe/rock combo is wrapped with ends folded over securely creating a closed drain system. This is way better than the method of just laying the fabric over the rock between soil and rock. The method in the video works but not forever, plus, what about the side walls where there is no fabric? There is a high probability migration occurs this way. It's not just from above. For garden and residential applications if you do what Dr. Drains is doing you'll be head and shoulders above most. In fairness to Dr. Drains, he may cover all side walls during construction and that's good. But, unless you have a burrito, you'll get clogged gravel in time. If you want a near foolproof solution and an effective one, go with a burrito drain. We won't approve any work without one. I hope this helps! By the way, the presenter of this video is very knowledgable and presenting very useful info! All...use commercial filter fabric, always! Go to a supplier of these materials, don't source at box stores.
I have a dumb question , will the cloth not get clogged with clay eventually ? If so what is there to do ? Does it make sense to add cloth then sand then gravel ?
You have to remember, a french drain is most effective at taking care of the low volume subsurface water (a soggy yard). If you do not use filter fabric, you lose all the air voids in your drainage stone, making it much, much less effective (almost ineffective in fact). Just don't expect any french drain with sod on top to take in flood water. Bulk surface water is what 12 and 20 inch catch basins are for.
I have just fitted French drains with geotextile and found that the clay has blinded to the fabric (I purposefully left it open to inspect before adding top soil and glad I did) the problem I have now is how to get rid of the flash surface water when the garden is flat, how do I know where to put a catch basin? Do I need to landscape to a swale and have a separate drain or can it all get fed into the French drain? Clay is just the worst thing ever!!
@@lala_land86 I wish you lived in Kansas City so I could do it for you lol. If it isn't a lot of water, a few garage flooring grates laid on the french drain's fabric will work. You can get the grates on amazon. If it is a lot of water, You will need to put in some at least 12 inch catch basins (20 inch basins are usually better or necessary, but quite a bit more labor to put in). Just remember, you may need to go outside of this garden to solve the water problem. Check out french drain man's channel on youtube and check out my facebook business page if you want some good info on how to solve your drainage issue. When it comes down to it, there are a lot of things to learn in the drainage business. There are quite a few variables that take a lot of time to learn if you want to do good work. Hopefully you can find a solution for your issue easily enough.
who knows, some say a good french drain is a drain itself along its entire length and doesnt need any catch basins. Interestingly when I had a contractor out to look at my issue and we were discussing things I asked him about catch basins since they are in so many youtubes. He basically shrugged and said theyre not needed and they didnt do them. I found that interesting from a pro. I will probably do a couple anyway, cant hurt and more importantly they allow clean out points. Also, I do believe a drain can take in surface water with sod or topsoil on top, maybe 3-4", from watching many videos. What you dont want to do is put the same soil you dug out of your trench back on top, since that soil was likely the very problem and doesnt drain well. But if you cant put sod on top, you're going to end up with a ugly gravel line running through your yard.
Interesting test, however I note that there is no dirt under the stones. Won’t the stone get clogged over time by sinking into the dirt? Thx for sharing.
Update: To reiterate: My goal was to divert surface water from the the sidewalk to a drainage system. I have it emptying into a small drywall about 16" - 18" deep and 30" wide. Now, I am about 1/2 way done. My drain system is really more of a curtain drain, and not a true French drain, because it's very shallow, only about 8 - 10 inches deep. The whole thing may be overkill, but even when I just had the dirt trench there, the water ran off well - but the trench gradually silted up, so a more "permanent" solution was needed. Oh yeah, and I am 64 in November, so if I can do it, anyone can! What I did was this: 1) I bought the 6 oz. fabric from the supplier that Dr. Drainz recommended. It was good, solid stuff. I have trees and shrubs in the immediate area, so I figured anything to slow down root penetration is good. The water will still make it into the drain. 2) Laid a 1 inch layer of "river rock" (bagged smooth stone, about 1/2 - 1 inch in size). I emptied one bag at a time in my Dad's (65 year old Craftsman) wheelbarrow and rinsed it with a garden hose, then slowly tilted it so the murky water ran out. Did this about 5 - 6 times till the water was about 1/2 clear. 3) Laid the 4" perforated pipe (not the ADS, just the flex pipe from Lowe's/HD). It has perforations spaced all around the circumference, so no worrying about getting the right side down. 4) Covered it all with the small river rock, and did a burrito wrap with about 2 inches of overwrap and used landscape pins to secure it. 5) That will all be covered with a layer of pea gravel and then (maybe also) mulch. Perf. drain in place: drive.google.com/file/d/1azS5VlxGGvKpyGvhewOwsxla3q8ZEl0u/view?usp=sharing Before closing up the wrap: drive.google.com/file/d/1m-uT9bMVdCh_--9k-CvFbtT7ZCjXQnkz/view?usp=sharing After the wrap: drive.google.com/file/d/1lr8U0a_t7dzuDZGDQ2s5-4FUkRjIMPis/view?usp=sharing For the drywell, I lined it with the 6 oz non woven, used landscape pins to secure it to the walls, put a layer of 2" - 4" round large, smooth river rock on the bottom, followed by the smaller smooth river rock. Closed it up with more pins, and will cover all with pea gravel and then maybe mulch, so it blends in with the landscaping: drive.google.com/file/d/16vHnAiqWqS4H94-LVQnCIQSVyOTuayxv/view?usp=sharing
I’d personally slope my drain correctly so that silt continues to flush out. It’s better to have a clogged drain than clogged weed fabric. Yearly flushing out drainage with a pressure washer is recommended to my customers.
Is there a video of you putting these together? Just wondered if the gravel layer was the same, the one with the drain looked deeper but I wasn't sure. Thanks!
I’m going to do something like this around my house since I’m missing some gutters and can’t get anyone out to put them up on my two story home. I don’t have fascia either and I just had my shingles replaced I would rather not screw straps on my shingles. Any thoughts on the correct drain methodology, I was thinking corrugated slotted pipe with rock and a sleeve like a burrito 😆can I get your professional thoughts on the correct drainage methods and products to use for this. Thank you in advance! 🙏🏼
The reason why fabric does not work is because the clay and silt run out of the soil ontop and at the sides of the fabric, it doesn't happen straight away it takes time. If you have a dispersive clay soil as I have found out the hard way fabric or no fabric they both have huge issues. I'm not quite sure how to fix it and resolve the issue but to say other people are incorrect isn't entirely true because actually brand new fabric will take the water away but do the same experiment after its been in there 12 months.... The fine particals blind to the geotextile and instead of blocking the inside it blocks the outside instead. I would be grateful for your reply because I am telling you that this is 100% true and I am living in a nightmare.
Your concerns are exactly mine; that over time the fabric will become blocked. I have looked at other drain contractor videos and one shows an engineers drawing of the sediment building up a layer on the geotextile and they say the soil buildup is a filter zone and water can still pass through it. I question this works with clay soils, and maybe an engineer would need to be consulted. The other point that is made by another drainage contractor who has many youtube videos, is that the type of fabric is important (he uses a double punched filter non-woven geotextile). I'm not sure the weight but I think it's 4 or 8 ozs. I still don't see how punching some small holes is going to prevent clay soils from building up a non-permeable layer on the outside. Also, clay soils expand when wet, which makes this even more of a legitimate concern. Any way, I think contacting drainage engineers who can refer to studies, or to local drainage contractors who have systems that match what you are trying to do that have been working for decades may be the only way to figure this out. Please reply if you make any progress on this question!
@@riumudamc4686 thanks for your comments, I have had loads of people round including a geologist amazingly and all of them said that the terram t1000 is the filter fabric we need. I am in the UK so we don't have the same type of fabric, I only wish that I could show you a photo but I am going to make a video today and create a you tube channel all about the garden, so I could share it with you later. Its only been down 4 months and blocked already because of dispersive clay it's terrible and I don't know how to resolve it. I am going to get my husband to re do them and I am going to try to have a layer of sand all the way around the terram (geotextile) and see if it helps stop the clay sticking to it as much, they are still working because there's literally a stream coming out of the exit pipe but they are just not quick enough so the water is pooling around and ontop of them further up the garden where as when they were first installed it was rushing straight into it. Honestly it is the worst thing I've ever done in my life and I hope someone has a solution!
Awesome video! Very straight forward and realistic set ups. I appreciate your knowledge and your time! Out of curiosity, why not have the surface drain tap into the French Drain (so you only need 1 drain rather than 2)?
Because the surface water will be at higher pressure than the subsurface water, so all the water captured by the surface tap will flow OUT of the french drain holes..... 'Once you have captured water, NEVER give it a chance to get back out again until you move it to a place to get rid of it'......
@@Debbiebabe69 not true. Water follows the path of least resistance, so unless the entire pipe is completely submerged, water will choose to flow through the pipe
Also, why wouldn't you combo both in one drain? Have the slotted pipe, with surface inlets? Sure, it would mean some leakage into the sub surface from the surface, but that wouldn't always be a bad thing?
Great video! Well done for taking the effort. 👍 You mentioned PVC schedule 40. What if the PVC is surrounded by gravel? Is it at risk of cracking in colder areas?
Seems like the best way to do this is dig your trench put your fabric down in the trench put your pipe on top of that pour your stone on top of the pipe all the way up to the top leaving a few inches of space for the sod, then burrito wrap the cloth so no stone is showing after that lay your sod down.
I just last week installed 4inch perforated pipe . Trench 1.5mtr deep layed taram covered in 1 mtr clean 20/40 hardcore and wrapped only about 6inch below surface. First rains and the discharge pipe is dripping. Had too cut fabric on surface to allow water through as was totally clogged with silt. I regret laying 150mtr with fabric now.
Did you use woven fabric or non woven fabric in your installation? Also, what kind of stone did you use? larger and rounder the better as to avoid compaction and promote better water flow. Also just as important to wash the rock before putting it into the french drain system.
Took me 3 seasons of winters after doing my drainage. Now it works fine but for a couple of years I regretted the enormous effort using fabric covered French drains. I did put in 2 extra surface collectors too using no slit/solid drain coil. Good luck.
Could you do a discussion between the use of the Charlotte PVC pipe vs these systems discussed above .. or is it just cost / ROI over the years with the slotted pvc vs polyeth drainage pipes
I would suspect that a system with fabric will become less and less effective over time as the fabric becomes clogged. Maybe an optimum system would be no fabric, and gravel in the trench all the way to the surface. If you don't mind gravel at the surface.
So instead of plugging the rock with debris, your plugging the filter fabric. Leave these tests together for 10 years and see which one still works. I guarantee the fabric will be plugged and the rock will still work.
Fabric will eventually clog. All French drains require maintenance over time and all will clog a bit in the long run. It also depends on your region and type of soil. French drains in Colorado will work for a much longer time than in Michigan or Tennessee. Soil types and amount of moisture make huge impacts.
Facts never burrito wrap the pipe always daylight the stone it also slows the flow down into the pipe and when it storms heavy you will lose flow some of these guys need a lesson in hydro physics also I see a ton of landscapers doing this full wrapping nonsense
The first one with no fabric removed the water the fastest though. The others took longer with the exception of the water that went straight into the surface drain. It was dirty water but the water escaped way faster! I like my problem water moved fast.
Why was the third bucket drain already full of dirt before you showed the test? Did you pre water it? Just wondering since that would affect the outcome. Thank you
I don't have an issue with the fact that "fabric works" as shown in your demonstration, but my question is, can't the fabric eventually clog up with dirt to the point water can't pass through it anymore? Would that happen in 5, 10 or 15 years? Thanks.
What you state is part of the reason a lot of engineers dont spec filter fabric behind large retaining walls. They know the filter fabric can create a blockage in a decade whereas it can take 30-40-50 yrs for several feet of angular stone to clog. At least in my area.
You are absolutely right. I don't care what this guy says, fabrics will clog, period. If you have issues with lots of rain and surface water, proper grading and catch basins is the only real long term solution. Sprinkler systems to keep large cracks from forming are also excellent ideas to avoid foundation issues. Had an engineer evaluate my setup. He told me he had been to over 200 houses this year, of all those with foundation issues, not ONE had a sprinkler system.
2 роки тому
@@PayNoTax-GetNoVote what do you mean sprinkler system
@@PayNoTax-GetNoVote catch basins do nothing too underground water from the water table which is often the issue in a soggy yard. you know little. My yard problem area stays SOGGY long after surface water is gone.
I put in a drain system around garage and along driveway. Worked fine it seemed until neighbor and I put in driveway gravel and it ended up a little higher than the driveway and muddy water ran off gravel onto the driveway. I uncovered the drain and replaced everything on top of the fabric with washed drain rock so the runoff will not reach concrete driveway. Flows like an open pit now but the rocks get displaced a little. Lesson learned, don't cover french drain with dirt or driveway gravel.
Yes, because driveway gravel is crusher run and has a semi-impermeable porosity. Water also has a hard time penetrating different layers if there is a change in porosity.
It might seem if you have a good clean out system eventually all the soil that makes into a pipe without fabric could be just flushed out over time till there is no soil left. Yet any additional soil that would make again in from the top again in the future.
I dug the trench, laid the corrugated pipe and wrapped the pipe with the liner. I'm hoping I didn't need to lay another layer the pipe before covering with rocks. they are larger river rocks
From how it looks to me, they all have the same amount of mud. Also just by looking at the bins, the one without fabric has the healthiest grass. Not sure if I’m sold
![How to Build a French Drain Full Tutorial in Less than 10 Minutes [ Veteran Contractor Explains ]](/img/n.gif)
My family owns a $10M landscape and design company and everything he said about the fabric is correct. He just showed you why. It’s the better way to do it . If you choose not to that’s your prerogative but it will be prone to packing the stone which must stay clean for best results. He never said without fabric it wouldn’t work. It’s a difference of quality and life of the drain working well
What I don't understand is why you wouldn't. You dug all the trenches and holes, you bought the gravel. The fabric is going to be such a small percentage of the total costs, so why not do it?
I have my holes dug and gravel ready, but after researching a bit I just ordered some fabric and will be putting it in tomorrow before filling everything back up.
@@Duci1989 actually that the thinking that solves problems lol you have a good logical mind also lol
I've seen in commercial, maybe large commercial like dams and levees, projects that they use sand instead of fabric. I'm curious what the scale must be for sand to be more efficient or cost effective over fabric...
This is one of the best demonstration videos showing the different options!
Thank you for taking the time to shed light on this question. Every bit of information helps us make a decision on our unique situation.
You're exactly right. It all depends on what type of soil you're dealing with.
Loved the experiment. You have changed my mind regarding fabric, hard to argue with your demonstration. Well done!
This is a GREAT visual demonstration. I have been researching French drains for a couple years now for a 195 ft run I need to put in. Absolutely love the surface drain in conjunction with the French drain
Thanks so much 🌎 ☮
I just did a surface french combo. Im finishing it tomorrow.
@keMikells43 congrats. How's it doing?
The link for the 6oz fabric is broken, likely not available by the seller. Can you post a new link or more detail description so we can search it ourselves.
Thanks
Doesn't the fabric clog up over time with the clay, reducing flow like you pointed out in the first one?
Yes it does - for the same reason other filters clog over time & must be replaced (coffee or water filters, for example). Leaving access to periodically flush soil build-up in french drains seems to be the best solution. There's a special jet tip that goes on the end of a pressure washer hose that is great for DIYers - and can even clear clogged lines. Much better than having to dig up & redo the filter-wrapped french drain when the clay clogs it, & they also remove ground water faster.
@@deecee2837 that pressure washer hose with jet tip .? ..
I used it to clean out the pipe between the septic tank and
distribution box.
Then, used it up thru all 6 outlets to the distribution box to
keep the leach field working. (75ft of line)
It was a S#!tty job . .. but somebody😳needed to do it..
anything on the surface of stone will encourage clogging, thus why we don't put grass back on top. Decorative stone looks nice but more importantly prevents soil/clay from clogging up the drain.
Yes... and no. Like he said, you must use the proper fabric. The landscaping fabric at big box stores won't work. Geo-textiles does work and will not clog and they allow water through much faster than landscaping fabric. You can actually get different fabrics that have different flow characteristics. It's the same stuff they put under roads to have proper drainage underneath them, otherwise they wouldn't last long due to ice heave and erosion.
The pores in fabric are smaller than pores in stone. Better the fines run out of the french drain than clog up fabric. Common sense.
so many experts on here! it is amazing!
When dealing with clay sch 80 is your best bet to prevent cracks long term. 😊
Peeeeeeerrrrrfect real world models, genius!!.
Exactly. Now he just needs to do that 400 more times to simulate 5 years of rain
Man this is a great video! It explained how these thing work and helped me figure out how I want to set up my drainage system. Thank you! for putting this together.
We have been installing lawn drains as a company for probably 50 years with thousands of customers and never use any fabric at all. And we have never had any issues with our lawn drains.
Fudge.... um. Did you ever have to maintain them or anything???
What is your process? Prob if you add enough rock then the dirt won't be able to reach the drain perforations?
@@nofurtherwest3474 that's what I was thinking
We don’t have much slop in our back yard and water is a huge problem. This coming spring I am planing to put in French drains and I am hearing to use fabric and then not to use coming from the same UA-camr. At this point I am planing on a stepping stone walkway with French drains on both sides with no fabric. This is the lowest point of the yard with very little slop so may have to put in sump pump system.
Can you tell me if this sounds the correct way of doing it ?
Sure, & the follow-up customer service agent is Helen Waite….😂
If you can even get through the Fax machine that always *answers* a customer calling in…..
I’m In Massachusetts and I used to install septics. Schedule 40 is what is used for all piping. It’s actually very strong and if it cracked in the winter I’d imagine every septic in the state would have failed. There is a solid pipe that is pretty thin walled which you might be referring to but schedule 40 has about a 1/4 inch wall.
Stepic systems are not installed inside of the frost line. That is the reason french drains fail. They are exposed to frost heave.
@@Luckingsworth I literally put in hundreds of septic systems. My septic is only a foot or two down not 4 feet. My tank only has 6 inches of cover meaning my piping is within 2 feet. Which is well within the frost line.
@@JasonTheMunicipalMechanic you cant drill holes in PVC in 360 degrees like corrugated. If you do it will weaken the pipe and cause fail. PVC rigidity is its weakness. It cracks easily. Corrugated also has a self cleaning action due to turbulence, that prevents clogging. Corrugated is THE standard in public contracting drainage for a reason. But go ahead, build your french drain with PVC. See how that works out for you.
@@cryengine_x pvc doesn’t have holes drilled 360 around it. It has 2 rows of holes 120 degrees apart that you put down on the bottom and the water flows up into them. The holes are also much bigger I believe 5/8 inch. Thank you for the lesson, You don’t even know what product I’m talking about. If schedule 40 broke in the frost then every single septic in my state would be ruined, schedule 40 is the code for septic piping in Massachusetts, and no every septic is not under the frost line. Mine is not and many I installed are not either. My leach field is literally made of this perforated pipe and only about 2 feet down. Also these septics have plans that are draw by engineers and approved be the town so it’s not just some guy burying stuff. So yeah I do have that as drainage and it works just fine.
@@JasonTheMunicipalMechanicok ok ok. Thank you for your sincere reply
I’ve done both ways with and without the fabric. The water flow pretty good either way while there testing after the install. No matter which one you choose you’ll still have to clean the system. The fabric will give you a some extra time.
With fabric flushing will do nothing. You will need replace the fabric after the clay fines seal it.
@@blackdogleg Exactly. The ground and clay above the fabric will seal and the system will be rendered useless anyway.
@@blackdogleg if you are trying to capture surface water that is true. However if the goal is to capture ground water at the footer then it creates a low pressure point for the hydrostatic pressure created by all the water in the ground. It’ll seep in there rather than your CMU
@@emeraldtigerhd5176 will do the same without the fabric.
But that fabric itself won't keep forever either. I'm sure it will deteriorate quicker than using just the rock.
The best solution is probably going to be schedule 40 pipe with crushed stone all the way to the surface. Add decorative rock on the surface to make it look a little nicer.
No fabric
We usually place the "non-woven" filter fabric along the bottom of the trench, place some #57 stone in the bottom (3-4inches thick) place the pipe and cover it with 6-8 inches of stone. Then wrap the stone with the fabric to create a "burrito" effect encapsulating the stone. This prevents soil from getting to the pipe from all directions, top, sides and bottom. Then backfill the trench. In commercial use we backfill with mason sand or concrete sand above the fabric.
Thats the best way to do it, IF youre putting soil back on tip. That being said youre still reducing the effectiveness of the drain by putting soil/grass on top
@@lawn-n-orderlandscaping1389 weird cus french drain man swears put the pipe on very bottom, against the filter fabric. he says do NOT put any gravel under the pipe. He says that only means you will have standing water in the bottom of the drain up to the pipe all the time (example, if you have 4" of gravel under your pipe, then you would have up to 4" of standing water in the bottom of your drain). I can see this might be true. But I think the reason for the gravel (besides it being a good drainage material I suppose) is to dry out and kill roots trying to reach the pipe which would clog it. So the gravel can be thought of as a root barrier. In that case, you WOULD want gravel under the pipe. If you just have filter fabric under the pipe, you figure that filter fabric is NOT going to holds off roots forever.
So basically I can see both ways being correct and dont know the correct answer :(
@@cryengine_x fabric eventually biodegrades. Also gravel doesn't hold water... unless your drain is flat, which wouldn't work anyways. We like the water to slow down a little at the base of the drain, but use the pipe as an escape for fast flash floods. Using the 3/4 gravel, the drain will almost function without the pipe entirely, until a hurricane comes through, that's when you need the pipe.
@@lawn-n-orderlandscaping1389 eventually but the key is how long, 30 yrs? if you use good stuff not home depot junk as many seem too. if gravel drains then it definitely holds water, thats the point of the whole void system and the whole drain really. if the dirt absorbed that water the drain wouldn't be needed
@@cryengine_x give or take, but corrugate pipe is really only good for 25 years i wouldnt sweat it.
Great demo. French drains are for ground water. People need to remember that. If surface water is the issue, you use non-perforated pipe and the surface drains.
You get surface water from compacted top soil or saturated ground soil. French drain should take care of both. If your getting surface water is mostly because you have compacted top soil. You need to aerate. Or your French drain is clogged. I'm not sure about clay. I know Clay holds surface water . Not sure if it does any good aerating. But here in Illinois it's 99 percent compacted top soil if surface is holding water and there's no ground water
@@jheiny1231 I owned a home outside Chicago and battled surface and groundwater on multiple fronts from multiple sources. The house was the low one amongst the neighbors. There's not enough aeration in the world to deal with what I was dealing with. I tackled it with regrading for a swale, a concrete curb between the driveway and house, French drain to the drain tile on the uphill side, and 150' of buried downspouts and sump pump discharge to the ditch out front.
It sounds like you have some other issues. Your yard shouldn't hold surface water if there's a French drain running under it. If it does there's 2 issues there.. 1 your soil is compacted and the water can't penetrate the top layer of soil or 2 the French drain was installed incorrectly and in the wrong spot. There is absolutely no reason to run surface drains in a homes yard. Surface drains are good for concrete and asphalt surfaces. The French drain starts literally right after the sod. There should b no reason water couldn't penetrate 2inches of soil to make it in the French drain system. That of course if the French drain was installed in the right spot and correctly installed. Been doing yard drainage solutions for 14 years. There is rare occasions a surface drain is applicable. But 99 percent of the time its not
I don't know why I'm seeing this now, but here goes: Your assertion that "there's no reason to run surface drains in a home's yard" is as wrong-headed as it gets. I told you I was in a bowl. That means neighbors properties flooding mine with running surface water during storms. Literally two temporary creeks. All that surface water coming at me, and with a basement in the house (which punches a hole in the top cap of clay in my area), where do you think that surface water was going? I had to mitigate it BEFORE it migrated into the soil. A French drain can only mitigate as deep as the trench (my basement is 6-8 feet deeper).
The best way to manage ground water is to not let it become ground water in your area of concern. Swale (grading) is #1. Surface drains are #2 (so much faster/more efficient).
I’m in Minnesota with a clay yard and ground water. Our pool has schedule 40 pipe. It was build in 2003.
We’ve never had an issue and the freeze/thaw cycle here is intense.
u just jinxed yourself
Six foot culverts get clogged and micro mesh wont, thats truely amazing!
ewryone says that use fabric caus then the gravel dont clog up. But dont the poors in the fabric clog up also over time due to the same "problem"? Filter fabric its a filter all filters clog up....kinda the whole idea of a filter?
I'm a retired drainer.
In Australia, 60 years ago, we built these drains without cloth. We put newspapers on top of the gravel and covered that with soil. And we don't call em french drains.
Australian drains😎🦘
The name 'French Drain" comes from a Massachusetts guy, Henry French, who wrote about this type of drainage that we now (at least in the US) name after him. He never claimed to have invented this style of drainage, but his booklet about them greatly popularized the method. His writings were published back around the 1850s - 1860s, I believe.
DUDE !!!! .. Thanks for the class . . I now understand what the heck I have been watching between all these videos out there . . thanks !!!
Great demonstration. Love to see it repeated every day for 100 + days until something fails.
Yes. That’s the point with testing - you need to find the point of failure. Without that it’s still just theorising.
@@DiscoFang Thats my point. None of them failed. So its kind of pointless test.
PERFECT comparison,
Thanks for your work!
Very good this experiment, Drainz. I will try to follow your guidelines. A big hug, from Brazil.
Hello Dr Drains, Mr French Drain here out of Columbus Ohio. You seem to be the middle man between The French Drain Man and Apple Drains.
#4 Connect the French drain and below water drain to the same pipe. It saves you pipe by using only one. And probably add a filter on that French drain inlet.
It isn't a good idea to have a yard drain connected to a perforated pipe. It introduces too much water into the ground around the pipe, saturating the soil you are trying to keep dry
Great video, great idea for testing, great effort ... You get an A+, sir.
Couldn't help notice though that the first setup, sans the landscaping/drainage fabric, seemed to have the fastest throughout by far, but I guess you mentioned that was bc it was dry and subsequent storms would find the clay compacted. Well, thanks bud, we appreciate it. Btw... I'm standing outside over a couple sections of new corrugated pipe wondering how many drill holes to put in it, where and what size (thinking 3/16ths or 1/4"...?)c right here in good old WILMINGTON, NC
Thank you i would have never thought of the added t drain from the ttop
Seemed rigged to prove his point
Question … wouldn’t the clay clog the fabric over time?
Just had to dig up the french drain i set only one year ago and pull all the fabric out as was blocked, really disappointing. Just Reset it without any fabric now and just refilled the trench with rock already draining a lot better
What kind of soil do you have? Apparently it makes a difference and I'm getting ready to build a retaining wall and I need to make a decision
@@donnyh3497 clay soil. Working great still without fabric and drains well when wet outside. I ensured it was tight to soil and filled on top with large chips.
@@edi8656 thanks!
Hi, I'm thinking about just doing it with rock alone too. Curious, did you originally use the non-woven punched fabric? I'm reading where the clay is not suppose to clog that... but a filter is a filter, and they eventually clog. Of course I guess the rock alone will eventually clog too
This was very helpful. How my inches of stone should be under the pipe, and how far should dig from the sunken or level land for the best to redirect and catch the water?
Great video. I don't know haw many times I have tried to explain this to clients and students. What are your thoughts on using a course river sand instead of drainage aggregate and geotextile.
✨👍. Great Vid 🤳. I'm a loyal fan of Chuck. And now you're channel...Great demonstration...Great job Sarah on the filming 🤳✨👍
Great video, helps visualise the benefits
Option #4: Skip the soil and sod on top. Now you collect both surface and below-grade water, AND have a rock path.
Right. People are obsessed with looks over function. But like you hinted at, a rock path can look good.
I've done that. Works great especially ringing a building. No different than regular rock mulch.
Could you instead put a walkway using pavers on top of the rock path? using sand as the paver base on top of the rock?
@@joshuacoffelt9300 My understanding is that with sand and pavers up top, you'd not have much of a French drain. Water has to flow down into it, unless the plan is to use an open pipe instead and have water come up from the bottom, into holes in the bottom of the pipe and hope it stays in the pipe long enough to flow out.
My initial comment was more about recognizing a drainage system that takes care of both surface water and water not much under the surface. If the water table is really low, several feet, and causing foundation issues, that's a different thing. Most times. we're dealing with more _near-surface_ issues that will seep down and cause problems. The thinking is, if you snag the water from up top, it won't go down and cause problems.
Covering a french drain with more permeable decorative stuff works great. I built a few like that around my house. 4 or so. Here's 2 of them. The other two are 1. Under a brick patio. And 2. Under decorative brick edging by a driveway. These next two i have videos of.
French drain topped with 2 types of stone and limestone pavers.
ua-cam.com/video/PhbNnFNnKCc/v-deo.html
At 1 minute in is another example. 2 foot deep french drain ringing a garage covered with stone and cement pavers.
ua-cam.com/video/BSz8iMO2LOQ/v-deo.html
Thanks for a great demonstration! It is very interesting to see how the fabric keeps the clay particulates from clogging the gravel. But in your video, there was no clay underneath or alongside the lower level of gravel (that encircling the pipe) - just the plastic of the bin. I live in Ky., and have to deal with hard pan clay. Obviously, I'll have clay on the bottom and along the sides of the trench - not plastic. I am building more of a curtain drain (shallower trench alongside a sidewalk, for the runoff). In the situation of short, "average" rainfall, I was counting on the stone to hold the water until it gradually percs into the clay. In a heavy downpour, because the clay percolates slowly, it's going to act more like a french drain. I plan on placing a 4" perf. flex pipe on a bed of small, smooth river stones, then fill with gravel and top with pea gravel for the look. I am not using any soil in the back fill. So do I use fabric or not? Using the logic from your demo, it would seem that using fabric on the bottom and sides of the trench would be needed, to keep the clay on the bottom and sides from eventually clogging up the channels in the gravel. I have looked at so many Apple Drain videos with Chuck that my head is spinning about what to do.... Any advice is greatly appreciated! BTW I am a 63 year old woman and doing this by myself!
I hear you! I am a 64 year old woman (as of a week ago)and I'm also trying to figure this shit out! My brain hurts!
Add the 4, 6 and 8oz fabric thickness choice and oh yea, instant headache...I think seperating the gravel and soil makes sense. Chuck has a video where the water struggles to get through - but is that 8oz fabric? Water flows through 4oz easily. I'm going put fabric in the trench, (I think it's 4oz) then pipe and gravel (rougher gravel moves more water) and on top, staple the fabric across the top to the side top corner, so there's only 1 layer on top and fabric won't move.
Then more gravel on top so there's maximum amount of cavities for the water. My pipes drain into tubs where 2x12volt bilge pumps take water out...yep, headaches....
Hi Melanie I am currently working on a french drain project also and it's honestly been a nightmare. You sound like you want to get rid of surface water along the side so I would just put fabric on the bottom and the side and then I would fill to the top with gravel, the only problem is if you have dispersive clay this then blocks the outside of the fabric which is why some people are telling you it doesn't work because actually after a while the clay blocks the outside not the inside, however without the fabric clay blocks the gravel and pipe instead? I think if I were you I would just use a light fabric all over because you may have a problem with debris like leaves clogging the gravel in which case do the main trench in fabric on the bottom and sides and then cut a top separate fabric and thin layer of gravel over the top, this would be easy to rip out and put new stuff in every couple of years if the top layer of gravel gets blocked without taking out the whole drain. If you don't have dispersive clay then it's not so important to use different weight of fabric or fabric at all. You can do a test easy by putting your soil into a dish of water and see if it stays in a ball or if it gently breaks apart.
@@lala_land86 I'm no expert but if you've got clay, you need to get the water away.
I wrapped the gravel and flex perf pipe with fabric and liquid nailed it shut so zero dirt can enter.
These 10"round "sausages" work well, key points are:
- dig good fall into the trench.
- at the lowest point I dug a hole for a large bucket with holes.
- put a 750 gallon per hour, 12 volt bilge pump in the bucket to pump the water away from the problem area.
- to power it you need to know pumps use up to 4 times their operating power use on starting. So multiply 12volt x 3 amp = 36watts, then multiply by 4, so 150 watt 12 volt supply is reqd.
@@lyndamiller453 Haa,I love the way you explained yourself..!, 74, living in KY,clay dirt, doing it myself thought I had it down about what to do , watched this video ! now my brain hurts! totally totally confused !!
this was great, thank you for this
Thank you Sarah!!
THANK YOU!!! a million thank yous for this video
Great demonstration! Do you ever add a filter at the open grate at the top that catches surface water? I’m interested in a French drain for my large shed (15 foot x 20 foot) water coming from getters down the down pipe. Thanks! Going to watch more of your videos now😀
This is about the 100th video I've watched about clay and fabric and I'm still confused. I'm thinking about just doing it with rock alone. A filter is a filter... wether it is a fabric filter or a rock filter, wether it is non-woven or not. If it's filtering the clay, where does that filtered clay go??? and they all eventually clog. Seems like a fabric filter would clog much faster than rock... I'm leaning on using 6" smooth perforated PVC pipe with 90 degree sweep elbow clean outs on each end, (round grates on top) and just run a pressure washer drain snake attachment through it every couple of years. Surround the pipe with about 1" rock. The smooth pipe bottom should help it clean easier?? Seems like the rock might tend to clog from the top anyway, and not the sides or bottom, due to gravity... I'd rather deal with that down the road than pulling the whole thing due to clogged fabric.
Not true. I am a geotechnical inspector and look at these in volume every single day. Like the presenter said, all fabrics aren’t equal. Use a rated geo fabric designed for professionals and it will last decades. Rock is not a filter. It’s open graded, containing pores in which water and soil will travel rather quickly. As this happens, not only does your system become clogged but you generate voids in the fill above the drain. This introduces a whole new set of potential problems. Settlement, trip hazards, irregular surfaces and failures. It all depends on what’s above the drain. The soils go down and they leave voids. I’ve seen them travel all the way up to the surface and create large sinkholes. Use the fabric it’ll save you a lot of headaches! You can omit the fabric if you use a rated filter rock but it’s very expensive and the quarries will bait and switch by selling you a product that “looks” good but won’t work. Filter rock is highly engineered and must be tested to confirm that it is what it is! Like I said, it’s expensive. I hope this helps you a little.
@@stewartwhittier3455 So why is there clay in the rock on the far right experiment with the surface drain in it?
@@benkenobi671 Hi Ben! I hope I get the intent of your question, I had to watch the video again to see what you are talking about. There are 3 possible answers. If you're talking about the appearance of soil you can see through the box, below the fabric, I'm guessing that when building the box some soil got in there. If you're looking at the presence of muddy water in the solid pipe, that migrated there from the top during surface drainage. Most clay floats to a certain extent. If you look at the perf pipe on the right of the box, there's no water. Given time there will be. Lastly the possibility exists that the muddy water in the box rolled down the side of the box around the outside of the fabric into the rock. All of this presents an interesting scenario that we use in large commercial construction where the stakes are very high if one of these systems fail. I've been called out to mitigate failed drainage systems that contributed to retaining wall failure that jeopardized life and limb and shut down a whole Home Depot parking lot for ages. Big bucks! Soil migration into rock is a serious situation and can cause disasters. We recommend in our geotechnical reports that all sub drains/wall drains have a burrito drain installed at the base of the wall. This prevents water migrating into the rock from unwanted areas and almost removes failure options. When installed, the rock/pipe/rock combo is wrapped with ends folded over securely creating a closed drain system. This is way better than the method of just laying the fabric over the rock between soil and rock. The method in the video works but not forever, plus, what about the side walls where there is no fabric? There is a high probability migration occurs this way. It's not just from above. For garden and residential applications if you do what Dr. Drains is doing you'll be head and shoulders above most. In fairness to Dr. Drains, he may cover all side walls during construction and that's good. But, unless you have a burrito, you'll get clogged gravel in time. If you want a near foolproof solution and an effective one, go with a burrito drain. We won't approve any work without one. I hope this helps! By the way, the presenter of this video is very knowledgable and presenting very useful info! All...use commercial filter fabric, always! Go to a supplier of these materials, don't source at box stores.
No 1 Bucket works great !
Excellent
What about if you don't do soil on top? What if you just fill the trench with gravel?
I’m glad I saved this video for a month and actually watched it. Very interesting 🤔
Great vid! What are your thoughts about using Schedule 40 versus corrugated if you live in Northern Florida??? The ground never freezes. Thank you
most helpful video yet; surface and subsurface is way to go for me!! What is the best fabric to buy? I don't see the other video.
I have a dumb question , will the cloth not get clogged with clay eventually ? If so what is there to do ? Does it make sense to add cloth then sand then gravel ?
You have to remember, a french drain is most effective at taking care of the low volume subsurface water (a soggy yard). If you do not use filter fabric, you lose all the air voids in your drainage stone, making it much, much less effective (almost ineffective in fact). Just don't expect any french drain with sod on top to take in flood water. Bulk surface water is what 12 and 20 inch catch basins are for.
I have just fitted French drains with geotextile and found that the clay has blinded to the fabric (I purposefully left it open to inspect before adding top soil and glad I did) the problem I have now is how to get rid of the flash surface water when the garden is flat, how do I know where to put a catch basin? Do I need to landscape to a swale and have a separate drain or can it all get fed into the French drain? Clay is just the worst thing ever!!
@@lala_land86 I wish you lived in Kansas City so I could do it for you lol. If it isn't a lot of water, a few garage flooring grates laid on the french drain's fabric will work. You can get the grates on amazon. If it is a lot of water, You will need to put in some at least 12 inch catch basins (20 inch basins are usually better or necessary, but quite a bit more labor to put in). Just remember, you may need to go outside of this garden to solve the water problem. Check out french drain man's channel on youtube and check out my facebook business page if you want some good info on how to solve your drainage issue. When it comes down to it, there are a lot of things to learn in the drainage business. There are quite a few variables that take a lot of time to learn if you want to do good work. Hopefully you can find a solution for your issue easily enough.
who knows, some say a good french drain is a drain itself along its entire length and doesnt need any catch basins. Interestingly when I had a contractor out to look at my issue and we were discussing things I asked him about catch basins since they are in so many youtubes. He basically shrugged and said theyre not needed and they didnt do them. I found that interesting from a pro. I will probably do a couple anyway, cant hurt and more importantly they allow clean out points. Also, I do believe a drain can take in surface water with sod or topsoil on top, maybe 3-4", from watching many videos. What you dont want to do is put the same soil you dug out of your trench back on top, since that soil was likely the very problem and doesnt drain well. But if you cant put sod on top, you're going to end up with a ugly gravel line running through your yard.
@@cryengine_x Well, a French drain won't take surface water in quickly unless you put stone on top of the fabirc I can tell you with sureness.
@@cryengine_x How about using decorative rock of your choice on top of the drainage rock
Interesting test, however I note that there is no dirt under the stones. Won’t the stone get clogged over time by sinking into the dirt? Thx for sharing.
Brilliant
Great informative video.
After heavy rain, i had to remove the fabric for the french drain so surface water will drop down.
Update: To reiterate: My goal was to divert surface water from the the sidewalk to a drainage system. I have it emptying into a small drywall about 16" - 18" deep and 30" wide. Now, I am about 1/2 way done. My drain system is really more of a curtain drain, and not a true French drain, because it's very shallow, only about 8 - 10 inches deep.
The whole thing may be overkill, but even when I just had the dirt trench there, the water ran off well - but the trench gradually silted up, so a more "permanent" solution was needed.
Oh yeah, and I am 64 in November, so if I can do it, anyone can!
What I did was this:
1) I bought the 6 oz. fabric from the supplier that Dr. Drainz recommended. It was good, solid stuff. I have trees and shrubs in the immediate area, so I figured anything to slow down root penetration is good. The water will still make it into the drain.
2) Laid a 1 inch layer of "river rock" (bagged smooth stone, about 1/2 - 1 inch in size). I emptied one bag at a time in my Dad's (65 year old Craftsman) wheelbarrow and rinsed it with a garden hose, then slowly tilted it so the murky water ran out. Did this about 5 - 6 times till the water was about 1/2 clear.
3) Laid the 4" perforated pipe (not the ADS, just the flex pipe from Lowe's/HD). It has perforations spaced all around the circumference, so no worrying about getting the right side down.
4) Covered it all with the small river rock, and did a burrito wrap with about 2 inches of overwrap and used landscape pins to secure it.
5) That will all be covered with a layer of pea gravel and then (maybe also) mulch.
Perf. drain in place:
drive.google.com/file/d/1azS5VlxGGvKpyGvhewOwsxla3q8ZEl0u/view?usp=sharing
Before closing up the wrap:
drive.google.com/file/d/1m-uT9bMVdCh_--9k-CvFbtT7ZCjXQnkz/view?usp=sharing
After the wrap:
drive.google.com/file/d/1lr8U0a_t7dzuDZGDQ2s5-4FUkRjIMPis/view?usp=sharing
For the drywell, I lined it with the 6 oz non woven, used landscape pins to secure it to the walls, put a layer of 2" - 4" round large, smooth river rock on the bottom, followed by the smaller smooth river rock. Closed it up with more pins, and will cover all with pea gravel and then maybe mulch, so it blends in with the landscaping:
drive.google.com/file/d/16vHnAiqWqS4H94-LVQnCIQSVyOTuayxv/view?usp=sharing
How long did it take you from start to finish to complete?
I’d personally slope my drain correctly so that silt continues to flush out. It’s better to have a clogged drain than clogged weed fabric. Yearly flushing out drainage with a pressure washer is recommended to my customers.
Is there a video of you putting these together? Just wondered if the gravel layer was the same, the one with the drain looked deeper but I wasn't sure. Thanks!
Wow interesting....
Thanks mate I have learned how it works much support 🇰🇪 Joe!
THIS IS THE BEST VIDEO OF THE WEEK FOR ME! SUBSCRIBED! THANKYOUUUUU
You wrapped the dirt? Instead of wrapping the rock? What is the rock sitting on…dirt.
I am truly not following your logic on this.
Thanks yall. Just what I was looking for
I’m going to do something like this around my house since I’m missing some gutters and can’t get anyone out to put them up on my two story home. I don’t have fascia either and I just had my shingles replaced I would rather not screw straps on my shingles. Any thoughts on the correct drain methodology, I was thinking corrugated slotted pipe with rock and a sleeve like a burrito 😆can I get your professional thoughts on the correct drainage methods and products to use for this. Thank you in advance! 🙏🏼
Nice video. I am doing a French drain project. What type of fabric do you recommend? Name or where to get it online?
The reason why fabric does not work is because the clay and silt run out of the soil ontop and at the sides of the fabric, it doesn't happen straight away it takes time. If you have a dispersive clay soil as I have found out the hard way fabric or no fabric they both have huge issues. I'm not quite sure how to fix it and resolve the issue but to say other people are incorrect isn't entirely true because actually brand new fabric will take the water away but do the same experiment after its been in there 12 months.... The fine particals blind to the geotextile and instead of blocking the inside it blocks the outside instead. I would be grateful for your reply because I am telling you that this is 100% true and I am living in a nightmare.
Your concerns are exactly mine; that over time the fabric will become blocked. I have looked at other drain contractor videos and one shows an engineers drawing of the sediment building up a layer on the geotextile and they say the soil buildup is a filter zone and water can still pass through it. I question this works with clay soils, and maybe an engineer would need to be consulted. The other point that is made by another drainage contractor who has many youtube videos, is that the type of fabric is important (he uses a double punched filter non-woven geotextile). I'm not sure the weight but I think it's 4 or 8 ozs. I still don't see how punching some small holes is going to prevent clay soils from building up a non-permeable layer on the outside. Also, clay soils expand when wet, which makes this even more of a legitimate concern. Any way, I think contacting drainage engineers who can refer to studies, or to local drainage contractors who have systems that match what you are trying to do that have been working for decades may be the only way to figure this out. Please reply if you make any progress on this question!
@@riumudamc4686 thanks for your comments, I have had loads of people round including a geologist amazingly and all of them said that the terram t1000 is the filter fabric we need. I am in the UK so we don't have the same type of fabric, I only wish that I could show you a photo but I am going to make a video today and create a you tube channel all about the garden, so I could share it with you later. Its only been down 4 months and blocked already because of dispersive clay it's terrible and I don't know how to resolve it. I am going to get my husband to re do them and I am going to try to have a layer of sand all the way around the terram (geotextile) and see if it helps stop the clay sticking to it as much, they are still working because there's literally a stream coming out of the exit pipe but they are just not quick enough so the water is pooling around and ontop of them further up the garden where as when they were first installed it was rushing straight into it. Honestly it is the worst thing I've ever done in my life and I hope someone has a solution!
@@lala_land86 i would love to see a system that is working in clay after 10+ years!
@@riumudamc4686 I have posted a video of our nightmare ua-cam.com/video/BBMUfruTjyA/v-deo.html
Thanks for your comment. About how long does this take?
Awesome video! Very straight forward and realistic set ups. I appreciate your knowledge and your time!
Out of curiosity, why not have the surface drain tap into the French Drain (so you only need 1 drain rather than 2)?
Because the surface water will be at higher pressure than the subsurface water, so all the water captured by the surface tap will flow OUT of the french drain holes.....
'Once you have captured water, NEVER give it a chance to get back out again until you move it to a place to get rid of it'......
@@Debbiebabe69 not true. Water follows the path of least resistance, so unless the entire pipe is completely submerged, water will choose to flow through the pipe
Id absolutely not out clay over a French drain. If I had to replace dirt, I’d use topsoil and a little bit of sand for easy drainage
Usually comes up. Very interesting
Don't fall
Traditional French Drain....no piping thumbs 👍
Probably should have mentioned what "schedule 40" is
Also, why wouldn't you combo both in one drain? Have the slotted pipe, with surface inlets?
Sure, it would mean some leakage into the sub surface from the surface, but that wouldn't always be a bad thing?
Great video! Well done for taking the effort. 👍 You mentioned PVC schedule 40. What if the PVC is surrounded by gravel? Is it at risk of cracking in colder areas?
Seems like the best way to do this is dig your trench put your fabric down in the trench put your pipe on top of that pour your stone on top of the pipe all the way up to the top leaving a few inches of space for the sod, then burrito wrap the cloth so no stone is showing after that lay your sod down.
The most important part of any drainage system is using the proper rock. Not all pea gravel is equal. Properties of pea gravel vary greatly.
This is for ground water, not downspout drainage, right?
Excellent video
6:14 what clumps of soil? There was none in the 1st pot either. Just dirty water
“Dirty water” is water carrying soil particles- erosion
I just last week installed 4inch perforated pipe . Trench 1.5mtr deep layed taram covered in 1 mtr clean 20/40 hardcore and wrapped only about 6inch below surface. First rains and the discharge pipe is dripping. Had too cut fabric on surface to allow water through as was totally clogged with silt. I regret laying 150mtr with fabric now.
Did you use woven fabric or non woven fabric in your installation? Also, what kind of stone did you use? larger and rounder the better as to avoid compaction and promote better water flow. Also just as important to wash the rock before putting it into the french drain system.
Took me 3 seasons of winters after doing my drainage. Now it works fine but for a couple of years I regretted the enormous effort using fabric covered French drains. I did put in 2 extra surface collectors too using no slit/solid drain coil. Good luck.
Could you do a discussion between the use of the Charlotte PVC pipe vs these systems discussed above .. or is it just cost / ROI over the years with the slotted pvc vs polyeth drainage pipes
non woven geo textile double punched fabric is the best. u can order it from the french drain man in almont MI
I would suspect that a system with fabric will become less and less effective over time as the fabric becomes clogged. Maybe an optimum system would be no fabric, and gravel in the trench all the way to the surface. If you don't mind gravel at the surface.
Thanks for your intersting video. What does schedul 40 mean?
So instead of plugging the rock with debris, your plugging the filter fabric. Leave these tests together for 10 years and see which one still works. I guarantee the fabric will be plugged and the rock will still work.
FACT!!
And the one with rock and the one with fabric were the same color.
Fabric will eventually clog. All French drains require maintenance over time and all will clog a bit in the long run. It also depends on your region and type of soil. French drains in Colorado will work for a much longer time than in Michigan or Tennessee. Soil types and amount of moisture make huge impacts.
Fabric has a 30 year life so 30 years of no problems
Facts never burrito wrap the pipe always daylight the stone it also slows the flow down into the pipe and when it storms heavy you will lose flow some of these guys need a lesson in hydro physics also I see a ton of landscapers doing this full wrapping nonsense
The first one with no fabric removed the water the fastest though. The others took longer with the exception of the water that went straight into the surface drain. It was dirty water but the water escaped way faster! I like my problem water moved fast.
Great video! 👍🏻
Wow … that’s cool
great video man!! Really good info for a southern landcaper! Yall need an alabama franchise?
So if you can't use PVC in the NC clay, what do yall use for waste pipe there?
Less than one year and you’re already out of business 😂😂
thank you for sharing.
Why was the third bucket drain already full of dirt before you showed the test? Did you pre water it? Just wondering since that would affect the outcome. Thank you
I don't have an issue with the fact that "fabric works" as shown in your demonstration, but my question is, can't the fabric eventually clog up with dirt to the point water can't pass through it anymore? Would that happen in 5, 10 or 15 years? Thanks.
What you state is part of the reason a lot of engineers dont spec filter fabric behind large retaining walls. They know the filter fabric can create a blockage in a decade whereas it can take 30-40-50 yrs for several feet of angular stone to clog. At least in my area.
You are absolutely right. I don't care what this guy says, fabrics will clog, period. If you have issues with lots of rain and surface water, proper grading and catch basins is the only real long term solution. Sprinkler systems to keep large cracks from forming are also excellent ideas to avoid foundation issues. Had an engineer evaluate my setup. He told me he had been to over 200 houses this year, of all those with foundation issues, not ONE had a sprinkler system.
@@PayNoTax-GetNoVote what do you mean sprinkler system
@@PayNoTax-GetNoVote catch basins do nothing too underground water from the water table which is often the issue in a soggy yard. you know little. My yard problem area stays SOGGY long after surface water is gone.
I put in a drain system around garage and along driveway. Worked fine it seemed until neighbor and I put in driveway gravel and it ended up a little higher than the driveway and muddy water ran off gravel onto the driveway. I uncovered the drain and replaced everything on top of the fabric with washed drain rock so the runoff will not reach concrete driveway. Flows like an open pit now but the rocks get displaced a little. Lesson learned, don't cover french drain with dirt or driveway gravel.
Yes, because driveway gravel is crusher run and has a semi-impermeable porosity. Water also has a hard time penetrating different layers if there is a change in porosity.
You really need a Southern education to believe that there is any kind of fabric that is not going to clog up.
It might seem if you have a good clean out system eventually all the soil that makes into a pipe without fabric could be just flushed out over time till there is no soil left. Yet any additional soil that would make again in from the top again in the future.
I dug the trench, laid the corrugated pipe and wrapped the pipe with the liner. I'm hoping I didn't need to lay another layer the pipe before covering with rocks. they are larger river rocks
The link to the fabric example goes to Amazon but says it cant find the page. Is there another limk that works?
From how it looks to me, they all have the same amount of mud. Also just by looking at the bins, the one without fabric has the healthiest grass.
Not sure if I’m sold
Great video
How were similar drains built before geotextile fabric became widely used?