My family owns a $10M landscape and design company and everything he said about the fabric is correct. He just showed you why. It’s the better way to do it . If you choose not to that’s your prerogative but it will be prone to packing the stone which must stay clean for best results. He never said without fabric it wouldn’t work. It’s a difference of quality and life of the drain working well
What I don't understand is why you wouldn't. You dug all the trenches and holes, you bought the gravel. The fabric is going to be such a small percentage of the total costs, so why not do it? I have my holes dug and gravel ready, but after researching a bit I just ordered some fabric and will be putting it in tomorrow before filling everything back up.
I've seen in commercial, maybe large commercial like dams and levees, projects that they use sand instead of fabric. I'm curious what the scale must be for sand to be more efficient or cost effective over fabric...
This is a GREAT visual demonstration. I have been researching French drains for a couple years now for a 195 ft run I need to put in. Absolutely love the surface drain in conjunction with the French drain Thanks so much 🌎 ☮
ewryone says that use fabric caus then the gravel dont clog up. But dont the poors in the fabric clog up also over time due to the same "problem"? Filter fabric its a filter all filters clog up....kinda the whole idea of a filter?
Yes it does - for the same reason other filters clog over time & must be replaced (coffee or water filters, for example). Leaving access to periodically flush soil build-up in french drains seems to be the best solution. There's a special jet tip that goes on the end of a pressure washer hose that is great for DIYers - and can even clear clogged lines. Much better than having to dig up & redo the filter-wrapped french drain when the clay clogs it, & they also remove ground water faster.
@@deecee2837 that pressure washer hose with jet tip .? .. I used it to clean out the pipe between the septic tank and distribution box. Then, used it up thru all 6 outlets to the distribution box to keep the leach field working. (75ft of line) It was a S#!tty job . .. but somebody😳needed to do it..
anything on the surface of stone will encourage clogging, thus why we don't put grass back on top. Decorative stone looks nice but more importantly prevents soil/clay from clogging up the drain.
Yes... and no. Like he said, you must use the proper fabric. The landscaping fabric at big box stores won't work. Geo-textiles does work and will not clog and they allow water through much faster than landscaping fabric. You can actually get different fabrics that have different flow characteristics. It's the same stuff they put under roads to have proper drainage underneath them, otherwise they wouldn't last long due to ice heave and erosion.
Man this is a great video! It explained how these thing work and helped me figure out how I want to set up my drainage system. Thank you! for putting this together.
We have been installing lawn drains as a company for probably 50 years with thousands of customers and never use any fabric at all. And we have never had any issues with our lawn drains.
We don’t have much slop in our back yard and water is a huge problem. This coming spring I am planing to put in French drains and I am hearing to use fabric and then not to use coming from the same UA-camr. At this point I am planing on a stepping stone walkway with French drains on both sides with no fabric. This is the lowest point of the yard with very little slop so may have to put in sump pump system. Can you tell me if this sounds the correct way of doing it ?
Sure, & the follow-up customer service agent is Helen Waite….😂 If you can even get through the Fax machine that always *answers* a customer calling in…..
The link for the 6oz fabric is broken, likely not available by the seller. Can you post a new link or more detail description so we can search it ourselves. Thanks
I’ve done both ways with and without the fabric. The water flow pretty good either way while there testing after the install. No matter which one you choose you’ll still have to clean the system. The fabric will give you a some extra time.
@@blackdogleg if you are trying to capture surface water that is true. However if the goal is to capture ground water at the footer then it creates a low pressure point for the hydrostatic pressure created by all the water in the ground. It’ll seep in there rather than your CMU
We usually place the "non-woven" filter fabric along the bottom of the trench, place some #57 stone in the bottom (3-4inches thick) place the pipe and cover it with 6-8 inches of stone. Then wrap the stone with the fabric to create a "burrito" effect encapsulating the stone. This prevents soil from getting to the pipe from all directions, top, sides and bottom. Then backfill the trench. In commercial use we backfill with mason sand or concrete sand above the fabric.
Thats the best way to do it, IF youre putting soil back on tip. That being said youre still reducing the effectiveness of the drain by putting soil/grass on top
@@lawn-n-orderlandscaping1389 weird cus french drain man swears put the pipe on very bottom, against the filter fabric. he says do NOT put any gravel under the pipe. He says that only means you will have standing water in the bottom of the drain up to the pipe all the time (example, if you have 4" of gravel under your pipe, then you would have up to 4" of standing water in the bottom of your drain). I can see this might be true. But I think the reason for the gravel (besides it being a good drainage material I suppose) is to dry out and kill roots trying to reach the pipe which would clog it. So the gravel can be thought of as a root barrier. In that case, you WOULD want gravel under the pipe. If you just have filter fabric under the pipe, you figure that filter fabric is NOT going to holds off roots forever. So basically I can see both ways being correct and dont know the correct answer :(
@@cryengine_x fabric eventually biodegrades. Also gravel doesn't hold water... unless your drain is flat, which wouldn't work anyways. We like the water to slow down a little at the base of the drain, but use the pipe as an escape for fast flash floods. Using the 3/4 gravel, the drain will almost function without the pipe entirely, until a hurricane comes through, that's when you need the pipe.
@@lawn-n-orderlandscaping1389 eventually but the key is how long, 30 yrs? if you use good stuff not home depot junk as many seem too. if gravel drains then it definitely holds water, thats the point of the whole void system and the whole drain really. if the dirt absorbed that water the drain wouldn't be needed
Great demo. French drains are for ground water. People need to remember that. If surface water is the issue, you use non-perforated pipe and the surface drains.
You get surface water from compacted top soil or saturated ground soil. French drain should take care of both. If your getting surface water is mostly because you have compacted top soil. You need to aerate. Or your French drain is clogged. I'm not sure about clay. I know Clay holds surface water . Not sure if it does any good aerating. But here in Illinois it's 99 percent compacted top soil if surface is holding water and there's no ground water
@@jheiny1231 I owned a home outside Chicago and battled surface and groundwater on multiple fronts from multiple sources. The house was the low one amongst the neighbors. There's not enough aeration in the world to deal with what I was dealing with. I tackled it with regrading for a swale, a concrete curb between the driveway and house, French drain to the drain tile on the uphill side, and 150' of buried downspouts and sump pump discharge to the ditch out front.
It sounds like you have some other issues. Your yard shouldn't hold surface water if there's a French drain running under it. If it does there's 2 issues there.. 1 your soil is compacted and the water can't penetrate the top layer of soil or 2 the French drain was installed incorrectly and in the wrong spot. There is absolutely no reason to run surface drains in a homes yard. Surface drains are good for concrete and asphalt surfaces. The French drain starts literally right after the sod. There should b no reason water couldn't penetrate 2inches of soil to make it in the French drain system. That of course if the French drain was installed in the right spot and correctly installed. Been doing yard drainage solutions for 14 years. There is rare occasions a surface drain is applicable. But 99 percent of the time its not
I don't know why I'm seeing this now, but here goes: Your assertion that "there's no reason to run surface drains in a home's yard" is as wrong-headed as it gets. I told you I was in a bowl. That means neighbors properties flooding mine with running surface water during storms. Literally two temporary creeks. All that surface water coming at me, and with a basement in the house (which punches a hole in the top cap of clay in my area), where do you think that surface water was going? I had to mitigate it BEFORE it migrated into the soil. A French drain can only mitigate as deep as the trench (my basement is 6-8 feet deeper). The best way to manage ground water is to not let it become ground water in your area of concern. Swale (grading) is #1. Surface drains are #2 (so much faster/more efficient).
I’m in Minnesota with a clay yard and ground water. Our pool has schedule 40 pipe. It was build in 2003. We’ve never had an issue and the freeze/thaw cycle here is intense.
I have a dumb question , will the cloth not get clogged with clay eventually ? If so what is there to do ? Does it make sense to add cloth then sand then gravel ?
I’m In Massachusetts and I used to install septics. Schedule 40 is what is used for all piping. It’s actually very strong and if it cracked in the winter I’d imagine every septic in the state would have failed. There is a solid pipe that is pretty thin walled which you might be referring to but schedule 40 has about a 1/4 inch wall.
@@Luckingsworth I literally put in hundreds of septic systems. My septic is only a foot or two down not 4 feet. My tank only has 6 inches of cover meaning my piping is within 2 feet. Which is well within the frost line.
@@JasonTheMunicipalMechanic you cant drill holes in PVC in 360 degrees like corrugated. If you do it will weaken the pipe and cause fail. PVC rigidity is its weakness. It cracks easily. Corrugated also has a self cleaning action due to turbulence, that prevents clogging. Corrugated is THE standard in public contracting drainage for a reason. But go ahead, build your french drain with PVC. See how that works out for you.
@@cryengine_x pvc doesn’t have holes drilled 360 around it. It has 2 rows of holes 120 degrees apart that you put down on the bottom and the water flows up into them. The holes are also much bigger I believe 5/8 inch. Thank you for the lesson, You don’t even know what product I’m talking about. If schedule 40 broke in the frost then every single septic in my state would be ruined, schedule 40 is the code for septic piping in Massachusetts, and no every septic is not under the frost line. Mine is not and many I installed are not either. My leach field is literally made of this perforated pipe and only about 2 feet down. Also these septics have plans that are draw by engineers and approved be the town so it’s not just some guy burying stuff. So yeah I do have that as drainage and it works just fine.
Great video, great idea for testing, great effort ... You get an A+, sir. Couldn't help notice though that the first setup, sans the landscaping/drainage fabric, seemed to have the fastest throughout by far, but I guess you mentioned that was bc it was dry and subsequent storms would find the clay compacted. Well, thanks bud, we appreciate it. Btw... I'm standing outside over a couple sections of new corrugated pipe wondering how many drill holes to put in it, where and what size (thinking 3/16ths or 1/4"...?)c right here in good old WILMINGTON, NC
Just had to dig up the french drain i set only one year ago and pull all the fabric out as was blocked, really disappointing. Just Reset it without any fabric now and just refilled the trench with rock already draining a lot better
@@donnyh3497 clay soil. Working great still without fabric and drains well when wet outside. I ensured it was tight to soil and filled on top with large chips.
Hi, I'm thinking about just doing it with rock alone too. Curious, did you originally use the non-woven punched fabric? I'm reading where the clay is not suppose to clog that... but a filter is a filter, and they eventually clog. Of course I guess the rock alone will eventually clog too
This was very helpful. How my inches of stone should be under the pipe, and how far should dig from the sunken or level land for the best to redirect and catch the water?
The best solution is probably going to be schedule 40 pipe with crushed stone all the way to the surface. Add decorative rock on the surface to make it look a little nicer.
#4 Connect the French drain and below water drain to the same pipe. It saves you pipe by using only one. And probably add a filter on that French drain inlet.
It isn't a good idea to have a yard drain connected to a perforated pipe. It introduces too much water into the ground around the pipe, saturating the soil you are trying to keep dry
I'm a retired drainer. In Australia, 60 years ago, we built these drains without cloth. We put newspapers on top of the gravel and covered that with soil. And we don't call em french drains.
The name 'French Drain" comes from a Massachusetts guy, Henry French, who wrote about this type of drainage that we now (at least in the US) name after him. He never claimed to have invented this style of drainage, but his booklet about them greatly popularized the method. His writings were published back around the 1850s - 1860s, I believe.
4:02 would the fabric not get clogged up just like the rock? All it’s doing is filtering but that means the fine silt is clogging up the fabric ?? No 🤔
i do not understand how water pushes up to the pipe. In a situation of a 10 foot retaining wall will the water have to back fill up to the French drain? I don't understand "fill from the bottom". Sure in a plastic container, where else could it go. So using a sealed plastic container, sure, it fills from the bottom. But with a 10 foot retaining wall the water should just keep going down until it back fills the depth of the retaining wall.
quesetion and I might be wrong here. what will happen long term when the soil gets pushed against that fabric over the years? will it end up clogging the "wholes" in the fabric?
Also, why wouldn't you combo both in one drain? Have the slotted pipe, with surface inlets? Sure, it would mean some leakage into the sub surface from the surface, but that wouldn't always be a bad thing?
Thanks for a great demonstration! It is very interesting to see how the fabric keeps the clay particulates from clogging the gravel. But in your video, there was no clay underneath or alongside the lower level of gravel (that encircling the pipe) - just the plastic of the bin. I live in Ky., and have to deal with hard pan clay. Obviously, I'll have clay on the bottom and along the sides of the trench - not plastic. I am building more of a curtain drain (shallower trench alongside a sidewalk, for the runoff). In the situation of short, "average" rainfall, I was counting on the stone to hold the water until it gradually percs into the clay. In a heavy downpour, because the clay percolates slowly, it's going to act more like a french drain. I plan on placing a 4" perf. flex pipe on a bed of small, smooth river stones, then fill with gravel and top with pea gravel for the look. I am not using any soil in the back fill. So do I use fabric or not? Using the logic from your demo, it would seem that using fabric on the bottom and sides of the trench would be needed, to keep the clay on the bottom and sides from eventually clogging up the channels in the gravel. I have looked at so many Apple Drain videos with Chuck that my head is spinning about what to do.... Any advice is greatly appreciated! BTW I am a 63 year old woman and doing this by myself!
Add the 4, 6 and 8oz fabric thickness choice and oh yea, instant headache...I think seperating the gravel and soil makes sense. Chuck has a video where the water struggles to get through - but is that 8oz fabric? Water flows through 4oz easily. I'm going put fabric in the trench, (I think it's 4oz) then pipe and gravel (rougher gravel moves more water) and on top, staple the fabric across the top to the side top corner, so there's only 1 layer on top and fabric won't move. Then more gravel on top so there's maximum amount of cavities for the water. My pipes drain into tubs where 2x12volt bilge pumps take water out...yep, headaches....
Hi Melanie I am currently working on a french drain project also and it's honestly been a nightmare. You sound like you want to get rid of surface water along the side so I would just put fabric on the bottom and the side and then I would fill to the top with gravel, the only problem is if you have dispersive clay this then blocks the outside of the fabric which is why some people are telling you it doesn't work because actually after a while the clay blocks the outside not the inside, however without the fabric clay blocks the gravel and pipe instead? I think if I were you I would just use a light fabric all over because you may have a problem with debris like leaves clogging the gravel in which case do the main trench in fabric on the bottom and sides and then cut a top separate fabric and thin layer of gravel over the top, this would be easy to rip out and put new stuff in every couple of years if the top layer of gravel gets blocked without taking out the whole drain. If you don't have dispersive clay then it's not so important to use different weight of fabric or fabric at all. You can do a test easy by putting your soil into a dish of water and see if it stays in a ball or if it gently breaks apart.
@@lala_land86 I'm no expert but if you've got clay, you need to get the water away. I wrapped the gravel and flex perf pipe with fabric and liquid nailed it shut so zero dirt can enter. These 10"round "sausages" work well, key points are: - dig good fall into the trench. - at the lowest point I dug a hole for a large bucket with holes. - put a 750 gallon per hour, 12 volt bilge pump in the bucket to pump the water away from the problem area. - to power it you need to know pumps use up to 4 times their operating power use on starting. So multiply 12volt x 3 amp = 36watts, then multiply by 4, so 150 watt 12 volt supply is reqd.
@@lyndamiller453 Haa,I love the way you explained yourself..!, 74, living in KY,clay dirt, doing it myself thought I had it down about what to do , watched this video ! now my brain hurts! totally totally confused !!
For a retaining wall, would you not place the fabric down first then place the stone, then pipe, then more stone all the way up until the last foot or so of a wall with the fabric fully wrapping the stone from the bottom all the way up? I have clay and also see very different ideas on how deep the drain should be. above the footer, or at the first level of block below the wall grade?
Could you do a discussion between the use of the Charlotte PVC pipe vs these systems discussed above .. or is it just cost / ROI over the years with the slotted pvc vs polyeth drainage pipes
Interesting test, however I note that there is no dirt under the stones. Won’t the stone get clogged over time by sinking into the dirt? Thx for sharing.
I was curious the way that you install the fabric is it just on top or is it wrapped around the sides and bottom and the top like a burrito as they say?
Great video. I don't know haw many times I have tried to explain this to clients and students. What are your thoughts on using a course river sand instead of drainage aggregate and geotextile.
Update: To reiterate: My goal was to divert surface water from the the sidewalk to a drainage system. I have it emptying into a small drywall about 16" - 18" deep and 30" wide. Now, I am about 1/2 way done. My drain system is really more of a curtain drain, and not a true French drain, because it's very shallow, only about 8 - 10 inches deep. The whole thing may be overkill, but even when I just had the dirt trench there, the water ran off well - but the trench gradually silted up, so a more "permanent" solution was needed. Oh yeah, and I am 64 in November, so if I can do it, anyone can! What I did was this: 1) I bought the 6 oz. fabric from the supplier that Dr. Drainz recommended. It was good, solid stuff. I have trees and shrubs in the immediate area, so I figured anything to slow down root penetration is good. The water will still make it into the drain. 2) Laid a 1 inch layer of "river rock" (bagged smooth stone, about 1/2 - 1 inch in size). I emptied one bag at a time in my Dad's (65 year old Craftsman) wheelbarrow and rinsed it with a garden hose, then slowly tilted it so the murky water ran out. Did this about 5 - 6 times till the water was about 1/2 clear. 3) Laid the 4" perforated pipe (not the ADS, just the flex pipe from Lowe's/HD). It has perforations spaced all around the circumference, so no worrying about getting the right side down. 4) Covered it all with the small river rock, and did a burrito wrap with about 2 inches of overwrap and used landscape pins to secure it. 5) That will all be covered with a layer of pea gravel and then (maybe also) mulch. Perf. drain in place: drive.google.com/file/d/1azS5VlxGGvKpyGvhewOwsxla3q8ZEl0u/view?usp=sharing Before closing up the wrap: drive.google.com/file/d/1m-uT9bMVdCh_--9k-CvFbtT7ZCjXQnkz/view?usp=sharing After the wrap: drive.google.com/file/d/1lr8U0a_t7dzuDZGDQ2s5-4FUkRjIMPis/view?usp=sharing For the drywell, I lined it with the 6 oz non woven, used landscape pins to secure it to the walls, put a layer of 2" - 4" round large, smooth river rock on the bottom, followed by the smaller smooth river rock. Closed it up with more pins, and will cover all with pea gravel and then maybe mulch, so it blends in with the landscaping: drive.google.com/file/d/16vHnAiqWqS4H94-LVQnCIQSVyOTuayxv/view?usp=sharing
Hi. If I have on my beck yard a regular soil without the clay and I'm getting a lot of surface water in the spring time from the melted snow I should do just a drain with T catch bays without a fabric to save some money and drain the surface water? Thank you.
@@joshuacoffelt9300 My understanding is that with sand and pavers up top, you'd not have much of a French drain. Water has to flow down into it, unless the plan is to use an open pipe instead and have water come up from the bottom, into holes in the bottom of the pipe and hope it stays in the pipe long enough to flow out. My initial comment was more about recognizing a drainage system that takes care of both surface water and water not much under the surface. If the water table is really low, several feet, and causing foundation issues, that's a different thing. Most times. we're dealing with more _near-surface_ issues that will seep down and cause problems. The thinking is, if you snag the water from up top, it won't go down and cause problems.
Covering a french drain with more permeable decorative stuff works great. I built a few like that around my house. 4 or so. Here's 2 of them. The other two are 1. Under a brick patio. And 2. Under decorative brick edging by a driveway. These next two i have videos of. French drain topped with 2 types of stone and limestone pavers. ua-cam.com/video/PhbNnFNnKCc/v-deo.html At 1 minute in is another example. 2 foot deep french drain ringing a garage covered with stone and cement pavers. ua-cam.com/video/BSz8iMO2LOQ/v-deo.html
Great demonstration! Do you ever add a filter at the open grate at the top that catches surface water? I’m interested in a French drain for my large shed (15 foot x 20 foot) water coming from getters down the down pipe. Thanks! Going to watch more of your videos now😀
This is about the 100th video I've watched about clay and fabric and I'm still confused. I'm thinking about just doing it with rock alone. A filter is a filter... wether it is a fabric filter or a rock filter, wether it is non-woven or not. If it's filtering the clay, where does that filtered clay go??? and they all eventually clog. Seems like a fabric filter would clog much faster than rock... I'm leaning on using 6" smooth perforated PVC pipe with 90 degree sweep elbow clean outs on each end, (round grates on top) and just run a pressure washer drain snake attachment through it every couple of years. Surround the pipe with about 1" rock. The smooth pipe bottom should help it clean easier?? Seems like the rock might tend to clog from the top anyway, and not the sides or bottom, due to gravity... I'd rather deal with that down the road than pulling the whole thing due to clogged fabric.
Not true. I am a geotechnical inspector and look at these in volume every single day. Like the presenter said, all fabrics aren’t equal. Use a rated geo fabric designed for professionals and it will last decades. Rock is not a filter. It’s open graded, containing pores in which water and soil will travel rather quickly. As this happens, not only does your system become clogged but you generate voids in the fill above the drain. This introduces a whole new set of potential problems. Settlement, trip hazards, irregular surfaces and failures. It all depends on what’s above the drain. The soils go down and they leave voids. I’ve seen them travel all the way up to the surface and create large sinkholes. Use the fabric it’ll save you a lot of headaches! You can omit the fabric if you use a rated filter rock but it’s very expensive and the quarries will bait and switch by selling you a product that “looks” good but won’t work. Filter rock is highly engineered and must be tested to confirm that it is what it is! Like I said, it’s expensive. I hope this helps you a little.
@@benkenobi671 Hi Ben! I hope I get the intent of your question, I had to watch the video again to see what you are talking about. There are 3 possible answers. If you're talking about the appearance of soil you can see through the box, below the fabric, I'm guessing that when building the box some soil got in there. If you're looking at the presence of muddy water in the solid pipe, that migrated there from the top during surface drainage. Most clay floats to a certain extent. If you look at the perf pipe on the right of the box, there's no water. Given time there will be. Lastly the possibility exists that the muddy water in the box rolled down the side of the box around the outside of the fabric into the rock. All of this presents an interesting scenario that we use in large commercial construction where the stakes are very high if one of these systems fail. I've been called out to mitigate failed drainage systems that contributed to retaining wall failure that jeopardized life and limb and shut down a whole Home Depot parking lot for ages. Big bucks! Soil migration into rock is a serious situation and can cause disasters. We recommend in our geotechnical reports that all sub drains/wall drains have a burrito drain installed at the base of the wall. This prevents water migrating into the rock from unwanted areas and almost removes failure options. When installed, the rock/pipe/rock combo is wrapped with ends folded over securely creating a closed drain system. This is way better than the method of just laying the fabric over the rock between soil and rock. The method in the video works but not forever, plus, what about the side walls where there is no fabric? There is a high probability migration occurs this way. It's not just from above. For garden and residential applications if you do what Dr. Drains is doing you'll be head and shoulders above most. In fairness to Dr. Drains, he may cover all side walls during construction and that's good. But, unless you have a burrito, you'll get clogged gravel in time. If you want a near foolproof solution and an effective one, go with a burrito drain. We won't approve any work without one. I hope this helps! By the way, the presenter of this video is very knowledgable and presenting very useful info! All...use commercial filter fabric, always! Go to a supplier of these materials, don't source at box stores.
im thinking about using the NDS ez drain pipe it has the pipe wrapped and poly rocks wrapped around it already but im curious if i should use another layer of fabric on the bottom then lay the pipe down or is the fabic that comes around the pipe good enough? my soil is dirt on top about 10 inches down then i have clay .
I am wondering if my leach line not being fabric wrapped be why I am starting to get tracks in my yard where my septic leach lines are? could they be stealing soil like the non-fabric drain lines are here? The system is between 15-25 years old.
From another video I watch the reason u have two different types of pipes is because the quality of the water . The French drain get the water that soaked on the surface and raised to the bottom is filter this way and is cleaner the reason why this is important is because it doesn’t clog the slits in the pipe if it’s clogged it will not work . The yard drain the surface water which is full of dirt and leaves it will u can flush this one out Also if u want to connect your gutter spout u want to connect it to the solid pipe since it could clog the French drain pipe
@@dm-zx7xb this was what I thought, but I was wrong. It's called geotextile blinding and basically if you have a dispersive clay the fine parts migrate towards the fabric as it tries to get rid of the water and blocks the outside of the fabric instead. I have spent years researching it all after the first french drain was a disaster with no fabric laid by builders so decided to do it properly with fabric... However I have spent 6 months inspection daily watching what is happening before I went and put thousands of pounds of soil on the top and I'm glad I did because the problem now is that the outside of the fabric is blocked, inside is squeeky clear but the whole point was to get rid of a seep spring, don't get me wrong its a ginormous improvement to what it was like before but it's far from perfect. I am currently working on how to resolve this hence coming across this video but instead of anyone having a real helpful answer they all just argue and call each other out about one's use of fabric or no fabric instead of the scientific evidence behind it and pros and cons.
This is one of the best demonstration videos showing the different options!
Thank you for taking the time to shed light on this question. Every bit of information helps us make a decision on our unique situation.
My family owns a $10M landscape and design company and everything he said about the fabric is correct. He just showed you why. It’s the better way to do it . If you choose not to that’s your prerogative but it will be prone to packing the stone which must stay clean for best results. He never said without fabric it wouldn’t work. It’s a difference of quality and life of the drain working well
What I don't understand is why you wouldn't. You dug all the trenches and holes, you bought the gravel. The fabric is going to be such a small percentage of the total costs, so why not do it?
I have my holes dug and gravel ready, but after researching a bit I just ordered some fabric and will be putting it in tomorrow before filling everything back up.
@@Duci1989 actually that the thinking that solves problems lol you have a good logical mind also lol
I've seen in commercial, maybe large commercial like dams and levees, projects that they use sand instead of fabric. I'm curious what the scale must be for sand to be more efficient or cost effective over fabric...
This is a GREAT visual demonstration. I have been researching French drains for a couple years now for a 195 ft run I need to put in. Absolutely love the surface drain in conjunction with the French drain
Thanks so much 🌎 ☮
I just did a surface french combo. Im finishing it tomorrow.
@keMikells43 congrats. How's it doing?
Loved the experiment. You have changed my mind regarding fabric, hard to argue with your demonstration. Well done!
You're exactly right. It all depends on what type of soil you're dealing with.
ewryone says that use fabric caus then the gravel dont clog up. But dont the poors in the fabric clog up also over time due to the same "problem"? Filter fabric its a filter all filters clog up....kinda the whole idea of a filter?
so many experts on here! it is amazing!
Doesn't the fabric clog up over time with the clay, reducing flow like you pointed out in the first one?
Yes it does - for the same reason other filters clog over time & must be replaced (coffee or water filters, for example). Leaving access to periodically flush soil build-up in french drains seems to be the best solution. There's a special jet tip that goes on the end of a pressure washer hose that is great for DIYers - and can even clear clogged lines. Much better than having to dig up & redo the filter-wrapped french drain when the clay clogs it, & they also remove ground water faster.
@@deecee2837 that pressure washer hose with jet tip .? ..
I used it to clean out the pipe between the septic tank and
distribution box.
Then, used it up thru all 6 outlets to the distribution box to
keep the leach field working. (75ft of line)
It was a S#!tty job . .. but somebody😳needed to do it..
anything on the surface of stone will encourage clogging, thus why we don't put grass back on top. Decorative stone looks nice but more importantly prevents soil/clay from clogging up the drain.
Yes... and no. Like he said, you must use the proper fabric. The landscaping fabric at big box stores won't work. Geo-textiles does work and will not clog and they allow water through much faster than landscaping fabric. You can actually get different fabrics that have different flow characteristics. It's the same stuff they put under roads to have proper drainage underneath them, otherwise they wouldn't last long due to ice heave and erosion.
The pores in fabric are smaller than pores in stone. Better the fines run out of the french drain than clog up fabric. Common sense.
Man this is a great video! It explained how these thing work and helped me figure out how I want to set up my drainage system. Thank you! for putting this together.
Peeeeeeerrrrrfect real world models, genius!!.
Exactly. Now he just needs to do that 400 more times to simulate 5 years of rain
We have been installing lawn drains as a company for probably 50 years with thousands of customers and never use any fabric at all. And we have never had any issues with our lawn drains.
Fudge.... um. Did you ever have to maintain them or anything???
What is your process? Prob if you add enough rock then the dirt won't be able to reach the drain perforations?
@@nofurtherwest3474 that's what I was thinking
We don’t have much slop in our back yard and water is a huge problem. This coming spring I am planing to put in French drains and I am hearing to use fabric and then not to use coming from the same UA-camr. At this point I am planing on a stepping stone walkway with French drains on both sides with no fabric. This is the lowest point of the yard with very little slop so may have to put in sump pump system.
Can you tell me if this sounds the correct way of doing it ?
Sure, & the follow-up customer service agent is Helen Waite….😂
If you can even get through the Fax machine that always *answers* a customer calling in…..
Very good this experiment, Drainz. I will try to follow your guidelines. A big hug, from Brazil.
DUDE !!!! .. Thanks for the class . . I now understand what the heck I have been watching between all these videos out there . . thanks !!!
The link for the 6oz fabric is broken, likely not available by the seller. Can you post a new link or more detail description so we can search it ourselves.
Thanks
I’ve done both ways with and without the fabric. The water flow pretty good either way while there testing after the install. No matter which one you choose you’ll still have to clean the system. The fabric will give you a some extra time.
With fabric flushing will do nothing. You will need replace the fabric after the clay fines seal it.
@@blackdogleg Exactly. The ground and clay above the fabric will seal and the system will be rendered useless anyway.
@@blackdogleg if you are trying to capture surface water that is true. However if the goal is to capture ground water at the footer then it creates a low pressure point for the hydrostatic pressure created by all the water in the ground. It’ll seep in there rather than your CMU
@@emeraldtigerhd5176 will do the same without the fabric.
But that fabric itself won't keep forever either. I'm sure it will deteriorate quicker than using just the rock.
We usually place the "non-woven" filter fabric along the bottom of the trench, place some #57 stone in the bottom (3-4inches thick) place the pipe and cover it with 6-8 inches of stone. Then wrap the stone with the fabric to create a "burrito" effect encapsulating the stone. This prevents soil from getting to the pipe from all directions, top, sides and bottom. Then backfill the trench. In commercial use we backfill with mason sand or concrete sand above the fabric.
Thats the best way to do it, IF youre putting soil back on tip. That being said youre still reducing the effectiveness of the drain by putting soil/grass on top
@@lawn-n-orderlandscaping1389 weird cus french drain man swears put the pipe on very bottom, against the filter fabric. he says do NOT put any gravel under the pipe. He says that only means you will have standing water in the bottom of the drain up to the pipe all the time (example, if you have 4" of gravel under your pipe, then you would have up to 4" of standing water in the bottom of your drain). I can see this might be true. But I think the reason for the gravel (besides it being a good drainage material I suppose) is to dry out and kill roots trying to reach the pipe which would clog it. So the gravel can be thought of as a root barrier. In that case, you WOULD want gravel under the pipe. If you just have filter fabric under the pipe, you figure that filter fabric is NOT going to holds off roots forever.
So basically I can see both ways being correct and dont know the correct answer :(
@@cryengine_x fabric eventually biodegrades. Also gravel doesn't hold water... unless your drain is flat, which wouldn't work anyways. We like the water to slow down a little at the base of the drain, but use the pipe as an escape for fast flash floods. Using the 3/4 gravel, the drain will almost function without the pipe entirely, until a hurricane comes through, that's when you need the pipe.
@@lawn-n-orderlandscaping1389 eventually but the key is how long, 30 yrs? if you use good stuff not home depot junk as many seem too. if gravel drains then it definitely holds water, thats the point of the whole void system and the whole drain really. if the dirt absorbed that water the drain wouldn't be needed
@@cryengine_x give or take, but corrugate pipe is really only good for 25 years i wouldnt sweat it.
Great demo. French drains are for ground water. People need to remember that. If surface water is the issue, you use non-perforated pipe and the surface drains.
You get surface water from compacted top soil or saturated ground soil. French drain should take care of both. If your getting surface water is mostly because you have compacted top soil. You need to aerate. Or your French drain is clogged. I'm not sure about clay. I know Clay holds surface water . Not sure if it does any good aerating. But here in Illinois it's 99 percent compacted top soil if surface is holding water and there's no ground water
@@jheiny1231 I owned a home outside Chicago and battled surface and groundwater on multiple fronts from multiple sources. The house was the low one amongst the neighbors. There's not enough aeration in the world to deal with what I was dealing with. I tackled it with regrading for a swale, a concrete curb between the driveway and house, French drain to the drain tile on the uphill side, and 150' of buried downspouts and sump pump discharge to the ditch out front.
It sounds like you have some other issues. Your yard shouldn't hold surface water if there's a French drain running under it. If it does there's 2 issues there.. 1 your soil is compacted and the water can't penetrate the top layer of soil or 2 the French drain was installed incorrectly and in the wrong spot. There is absolutely no reason to run surface drains in a homes yard. Surface drains are good for concrete and asphalt surfaces. The French drain starts literally right after the sod. There should b no reason water couldn't penetrate 2inches of soil to make it in the French drain system. That of course if the French drain was installed in the right spot and correctly installed. Been doing yard drainage solutions for 14 years. There is rare occasions a surface drain is applicable. But 99 percent of the time its not
I don't know why I'm seeing this now, but here goes: Your assertion that "there's no reason to run surface drains in a home's yard" is as wrong-headed as it gets. I told you I was in a bowl. That means neighbors properties flooding mine with running surface water during storms. Literally two temporary creeks. All that surface water coming at me, and with a basement in the house (which punches a hole in the top cap of clay in my area), where do you think that surface water was going? I had to mitigate it BEFORE it migrated into the soil. A French drain can only mitigate as deep as the trench (my basement is 6-8 feet deeper).
The best way to manage ground water is to not let it become ground water in your area of concern. Swale (grading) is #1. Surface drains are #2 (so much faster/more efficient).
When dealing with clay sch 80 is your best bet to prevent cracks long term. 😊
I’m in Minnesota with a clay yard and ground water. Our pool has schedule 40 pipe. It was build in 2003.
We’ve never had an issue and the freeze/thaw cycle here is intense.
u just jinxed yourself
I have a dumb question , will the cloth not get clogged with clay eventually ? If so what is there to do ? Does it make sense to add cloth then sand then gravel ?
The fabric process speaks for itself.
I’m In Massachusetts and I used to install septics. Schedule 40 is what is used for all piping. It’s actually very strong and if it cracked in the winter I’d imagine every septic in the state would have failed. There is a solid pipe that is pretty thin walled which you might be referring to but schedule 40 has about a 1/4 inch wall.
Stepic systems are not installed inside of the frost line. That is the reason french drains fail. They are exposed to frost heave.
@@Luckingsworth I literally put in hundreds of septic systems. My septic is only a foot or two down not 4 feet. My tank only has 6 inches of cover meaning my piping is within 2 feet. Which is well within the frost line.
@@JasonTheMunicipalMechanic you cant drill holes in PVC in 360 degrees like corrugated. If you do it will weaken the pipe and cause fail. PVC rigidity is its weakness. It cracks easily. Corrugated also has a self cleaning action due to turbulence, that prevents clogging. Corrugated is THE standard in public contracting drainage for a reason. But go ahead, build your french drain with PVC. See how that works out for you.
@@cryengine_x pvc doesn’t have holes drilled 360 around it. It has 2 rows of holes 120 degrees apart that you put down on the bottom and the water flows up into them. The holes are also much bigger I believe 5/8 inch. Thank you for the lesson, You don’t even know what product I’m talking about. If schedule 40 broke in the frost then every single septic in my state would be ruined, schedule 40 is the code for septic piping in Massachusetts, and no every septic is not under the frost line. Mine is not and many I installed are not either. My leach field is literally made of this perforated pipe and only about 2 feet down. Also these septics have plans that are draw by engineers and approved be the town so it’s not just some guy burying stuff. So yeah I do have that as drainage and it works just fine.
@@JasonTheMunicipalMechanicok ok ok. Thank you for your sincere reply
Great video, great idea for testing, great effort ... You get an A+, sir.
Couldn't help notice though that the first setup, sans the landscaping/drainage fabric, seemed to have the fastest throughout by far, but I guess you mentioned that was bc it was dry and subsequent storms would find the clay compacted. Well, thanks bud, we appreciate it. Btw... I'm standing outside over a couple sections of new corrugated pipe wondering how many drill holes to put in it, where and what size (thinking 3/16ths or 1/4"...?)c right here in good old WILMINGTON, NC
Great demonstration. Love to see it repeated every day for 100 + days until something fails.
Yes. That’s the point with testing - you need to find the point of failure. Without that it’s still just theorising.
@@DiscoFang Thats my point. None of them failed. So its kind of pointless test.
PERFECT comparison,
Thanks for your work!
Hello Dr Drains, Mr French Drain here out of Columbus Ohio. You seem to be the middle man between The French Drain Man and Apple Drains.
Just had to dig up the french drain i set only one year ago and pull all the fabric out as was blocked, really disappointing. Just Reset it without any fabric now and just refilled the trench with rock already draining a lot better
What kind of soil do you have? Apparently it makes a difference and I'm getting ready to build a retaining wall and I need to make a decision
@@donnyh3497 clay soil. Working great still without fabric and drains well when wet outside. I ensured it was tight to soil and filled on top with large chips.
@@edi8656 thanks!
Hi, I'm thinking about just doing it with rock alone too. Curious, did you originally use the non-woven punched fabric? I'm reading where the clay is not suppose to clog that... but a filter is a filter, and they eventually clog. Of course I guess the rock alone will eventually clog too
This was very helpful. How my inches of stone should be under the pipe, and how far should dig from the sunken or level land for the best to redirect and catch the water?
Six foot culverts get clogged and micro mesh wont, thats truely amazing!
✨👍. Great Vid 🤳. I'm a loyal fan of Chuck. And now you're channel...Great demonstration...Great job Sarah on the filming 🤳✨👍
Question … wouldn’t the clay clog the fabric over time?
THIS IS THE BEST VIDEO OF THE WEEK FOR ME! SUBSCRIBED! THANKYOUUUUU
The best solution is probably going to be schedule 40 pipe with crushed stone all the way to the surface. Add decorative rock on the surface to make it look a little nicer.
No fabric
#4 Connect the French drain and below water drain to the same pipe. It saves you pipe by using only one. And probably add a filter on that French drain inlet.
It isn't a good idea to have a yard drain connected to a perforated pipe. It introduces too much water into the ground around the pipe, saturating the soil you are trying to keep dry
6:14 what clumps of soil? There was none in the 1st pot either. Just dirty water
“Dirty water” is water carrying soil particles- erosion
This is for ground water, not downspout drainage, right?
What about if you don't do soil on top? What if you just fill the trench with gravel?
Great video, helps visualise the benefits
Thanks mate I have learned how it works much support 🇰🇪 Joe!
Great vid! What are your thoughts about using Schedule 40 versus corrugated if you live in Northern Florida??? The ground never freezes. Thank you
Thanks yall. Just what I was looking for
@1:08 who told you to put clay on top of a drain? Wow I mean I’ve only been doing this for 51 years but wow.
THANK YOU!!! a million thank yous for this video
The link to the fabric example goes to Amazon but says it cant find the page. Is there another limk that works?
I'm a retired drainer.
In Australia, 60 years ago, we built these drains without cloth. We put newspapers on top of the gravel and covered that with soil. And we don't call em french drains.
Australian drains😎🦘
The name 'French Drain" comes from a Massachusetts guy, Henry French, who wrote about this type of drainage that we now (at least in the US) name after him. He never claimed to have invented this style of drainage, but his booklet about them greatly popularized the method. His writings were published back around the 1850s - 1860s, I believe.
4:02 would the fabric not get clogged up just like the rock? All it’s doing is filtering but that means the fine silt is clogging up the fabric ?? No 🤔
i do not understand how water pushes up to the pipe. In a situation of a 10 foot retaining wall will the water have to back fill up to the French drain? I don't understand "fill from the bottom". Sure in a plastic container, where else could it go. So using a sealed plastic container, sure, it fills from the bottom. But with a 10 foot retaining wall the water should just keep going down until it back fills the depth of the retaining wall.
this was great, thank you for this
Thank you i would have never thought of the added t drain from the ttop
quesetion and I might be wrong here. what will happen long term when the soil gets pushed against that fabric over the years? will it end up clogging the "wholes" in the fabric?
And if you wrap the drainpipe and the gravel in the fabric and then put turf on top?
Probably should have mentioned what "schedule 40" is
Also, why wouldn't you combo both in one drain? Have the slotted pipe, with surface inlets?
Sure, it would mean some leakage into the sub surface from the surface, but that wouldn't always be a bad thing?
How much soil can you put over the French Drain with out creating plugging issues. I'm working on putting a French Drain in a concrete raised planter
What kind of filter fabric do you recommend? I didn’t see the product? Thanks
Thanks for a great demonstration! It is very interesting to see how the fabric keeps the clay particulates from clogging the gravel. But in your video, there was no clay underneath or alongside the lower level of gravel (that encircling the pipe) - just the plastic of the bin. I live in Ky., and have to deal with hard pan clay. Obviously, I'll have clay on the bottom and along the sides of the trench - not plastic. I am building more of a curtain drain (shallower trench alongside a sidewalk, for the runoff). In the situation of short, "average" rainfall, I was counting on the stone to hold the water until it gradually percs into the clay. In a heavy downpour, because the clay percolates slowly, it's going to act more like a french drain. I plan on placing a 4" perf. flex pipe on a bed of small, smooth river stones, then fill with gravel and top with pea gravel for the look. I am not using any soil in the back fill. So do I use fabric or not? Using the logic from your demo, it would seem that using fabric on the bottom and sides of the trench would be needed, to keep the clay on the bottom and sides from eventually clogging up the channels in the gravel. I have looked at so many Apple Drain videos with Chuck that my head is spinning about what to do.... Any advice is greatly appreciated! BTW I am a 63 year old woman and doing this by myself!
I hear you! I am a 64 year old woman (as of a week ago)and I'm also trying to figure this shit out! My brain hurts!
Add the 4, 6 and 8oz fabric thickness choice and oh yea, instant headache...I think seperating the gravel and soil makes sense. Chuck has a video where the water struggles to get through - but is that 8oz fabric? Water flows through 4oz easily. I'm going put fabric in the trench, (I think it's 4oz) then pipe and gravel (rougher gravel moves more water) and on top, staple the fabric across the top to the side top corner, so there's only 1 layer on top and fabric won't move.
Then more gravel on top so there's maximum amount of cavities for the water. My pipes drain into tubs where 2x12volt bilge pumps take water out...yep, headaches....
Hi Melanie I am currently working on a french drain project also and it's honestly been a nightmare. You sound like you want to get rid of surface water along the side so I would just put fabric on the bottom and the side and then I would fill to the top with gravel, the only problem is if you have dispersive clay this then blocks the outside of the fabric which is why some people are telling you it doesn't work because actually after a while the clay blocks the outside not the inside, however without the fabric clay blocks the gravel and pipe instead? I think if I were you I would just use a light fabric all over because you may have a problem with debris like leaves clogging the gravel in which case do the main trench in fabric on the bottom and sides and then cut a top separate fabric and thin layer of gravel over the top, this would be easy to rip out and put new stuff in every couple of years if the top layer of gravel gets blocked without taking out the whole drain. If you don't have dispersive clay then it's not so important to use different weight of fabric or fabric at all. You can do a test easy by putting your soil into a dish of water and see if it stays in a ball or if it gently breaks apart.
@@lala_land86 I'm no expert but if you've got clay, you need to get the water away.
I wrapped the gravel and flex perf pipe with fabric and liquid nailed it shut so zero dirt can enter.
These 10"round "sausages" work well, key points are:
- dig good fall into the trench.
- at the lowest point I dug a hole for a large bucket with holes.
- put a 750 gallon per hour, 12 volt bilge pump in the bucket to pump the water away from the problem area.
- to power it you need to know pumps use up to 4 times their operating power use on starting. So multiply 12volt x 3 amp = 36watts, then multiply by 4, so 150 watt 12 volt supply is reqd.
@@lyndamiller453 Haa,I love the way you explained yourself..!, 74, living in KY,clay dirt, doing it myself thought I had it down about what to do , watched this video ! now my brain hurts! totally totally confused !!
Thank you Sarah!!
For a retaining wall, would you not place the fabric down first then place the stone, then pipe, then more stone all the way up until the last foot or so of a wall with the fabric fully wrapping the stone from the bottom all the way up? I have clay and also see very different ideas on how deep the drain should be. above the footer, or at the first level of block below the wall grade?
Do yoh recommend using a pipe sock?
Confused i thought the french drain was the surface water thing. If not what is it. If so what is the lower water drain called.
Thanks for your intersting video. What does schedul 40 mean?
No 1 Bucket works great !
Could you do a discussion between the use of the Charlotte PVC pipe vs these systems discussed above .. or is it just cost / ROI over the years with the slotted pvc vs polyeth drainage pipes
How were similar drains built before geotextile fabric became widely used?
Excellent
Interesting test, however I note that there is no dirt under the stones. Won’t the stone get clogged over time by sinking into the dirt? Thx for sharing.
How do you know if your garden is holding water from the top or raising from the ground
You wrapped the dirt? Instead of wrapping the rock? What is the rock sitting on…dirt.
I am truly not following your logic on this.
So if you can't use PVC in the NC clay, what do yall use for waste pipe there?
So what do they use for septic lines then ?
Nowadays they only use infiltrator chambers. Before that, they did use slotted corrugated pipe with gravel and a soil separator over the top
@@electricaf365
Ty
So what fabric do you buy? thanks
I was curious the way that you install the fabric is it just on top or is it wrapped around the sides and bottom and the top like a burrito as they say?
Great video. I don't know haw many times I have tried to explain this to clients and students. What are your thoughts on using a course river sand instead of drainage aggregate and geotextile.
most helpful video yet; surface and subsurface is way to go for me!! What is the best fabric to buy? I don't see the other video.
Update: To reiterate: My goal was to divert surface water from the the sidewalk to a drainage system. I have it emptying into a small drywall about 16" - 18" deep and 30" wide. Now, I am about 1/2 way done. My drain system is really more of a curtain drain, and not a true French drain, because it's very shallow, only about 8 - 10 inches deep.
The whole thing may be overkill, but even when I just had the dirt trench there, the water ran off well - but the trench gradually silted up, so a more "permanent" solution was needed.
Oh yeah, and I am 64 in November, so if I can do it, anyone can!
What I did was this:
1) I bought the 6 oz. fabric from the supplier that Dr. Drainz recommended. It was good, solid stuff. I have trees and shrubs in the immediate area, so I figured anything to slow down root penetration is good. The water will still make it into the drain.
2) Laid a 1 inch layer of "river rock" (bagged smooth stone, about 1/2 - 1 inch in size). I emptied one bag at a time in my Dad's (65 year old Craftsman) wheelbarrow and rinsed it with a garden hose, then slowly tilted it so the murky water ran out. Did this about 5 - 6 times till the water was about 1/2 clear.
3) Laid the 4" perforated pipe (not the ADS, just the flex pipe from Lowe's/HD). It has perforations spaced all around the circumference, so no worrying about getting the right side down.
4) Covered it all with the small river rock, and did a burrito wrap with about 2 inches of overwrap and used landscape pins to secure it.
5) That will all be covered with a layer of pea gravel and then (maybe also) mulch.
Perf. drain in place:
drive.google.com/file/d/1azS5VlxGGvKpyGvhewOwsxla3q8ZEl0u/view?usp=sharing
Before closing up the wrap:
drive.google.com/file/d/1m-uT9bMVdCh_--9k-CvFbtT7ZCjXQnkz/view?usp=sharing
After the wrap:
drive.google.com/file/d/1lr8U0a_t7dzuDZGDQ2s5-4FUkRjIMPis/view?usp=sharing
For the drywell, I lined it with the 6 oz non woven, used landscape pins to secure it to the walls, put a layer of 2" - 4" round large, smooth river rock on the bottom, followed by the smaller smooth river rock. Closed it up with more pins, and will cover all with pea gravel and then maybe mulch, so it blends in with the landscaping:
drive.google.com/file/d/16vHnAiqWqS4H94-LVQnCIQSVyOTuayxv/view?usp=sharing
How long did it take you from start to finish to complete?
Hi. If I have on my beck yard a regular soil without the clay and I'm getting a lot of surface water in the spring time from the melted snow I should do just a drain with T catch bays without a fabric to save some money and drain the surface water? Thank you.
Why can't you use one pipe to catch surface water act as a perforated french drain?
non woven geo textile double punched fabric is the best. u can order it from the french drain man in almont MI
Great informative video.
Option #4: Skip the soil and sod on top. Now you collect both surface and below-grade water, AND have a rock path.
Right. People are obsessed with looks over function. But like you hinted at, a rock path can look good.
I've done that. Works great especially ringing a building. No different than regular rock mulch.
Could you instead put a walkway using pavers on top of the rock path? using sand as the paver base on top of the rock?
@@joshuacoffelt9300 My understanding is that with sand and pavers up top, you'd not have much of a French drain. Water has to flow down into it, unless the plan is to use an open pipe instead and have water come up from the bottom, into holes in the bottom of the pipe and hope it stays in the pipe long enough to flow out.
My initial comment was more about recognizing a drainage system that takes care of both surface water and water not much under the surface. If the water table is really low, several feet, and causing foundation issues, that's a different thing. Most times. we're dealing with more _near-surface_ issues that will seep down and cause problems. The thinking is, if you snag the water from up top, it won't go down and cause problems.
Covering a french drain with more permeable decorative stuff works great. I built a few like that around my house. 4 or so. Here's 2 of them. The other two are 1. Under a brick patio. And 2. Under decorative brick edging by a driveway. These next two i have videos of.
French drain topped with 2 types of stone and limestone pavers.
ua-cam.com/video/PhbNnFNnKCc/v-deo.html
At 1 minute in is another example. 2 foot deep french drain ringing a garage covered with stone and cement pavers.
ua-cam.com/video/BSz8iMO2LOQ/v-deo.html
Great demonstration! Do you ever add a filter at the open grate at the top that catches surface water? I’m interested in a French drain for my large shed (15 foot x 20 foot) water coming from getters down the down pipe. Thanks! Going to watch more of your videos now😀
This is about the 100th video I've watched about clay and fabric and I'm still confused. I'm thinking about just doing it with rock alone. A filter is a filter... wether it is a fabric filter or a rock filter, wether it is non-woven or not. If it's filtering the clay, where does that filtered clay go??? and they all eventually clog. Seems like a fabric filter would clog much faster than rock... I'm leaning on using 6" smooth perforated PVC pipe with 90 degree sweep elbow clean outs on each end, (round grates on top) and just run a pressure washer drain snake attachment through it every couple of years. Surround the pipe with about 1" rock. The smooth pipe bottom should help it clean easier?? Seems like the rock might tend to clog from the top anyway, and not the sides or bottom, due to gravity... I'd rather deal with that down the road than pulling the whole thing due to clogged fabric.
Not true. I am a geotechnical inspector and look at these in volume every single day. Like the presenter said, all fabrics aren’t equal. Use a rated geo fabric designed for professionals and it will last decades. Rock is not a filter. It’s open graded, containing pores in which water and soil will travel rather quickly. As this happens, not only does your system become clogged but you generate voids in the fill above the drain. This introduces a whole new set of potential problems. Settlement, trip hazards, irregular surfaces and failures. It all depends on what’s above the drain. The soils go down and they leave voids. I’ve seen them travel all the way up to the surface and create large sinkholes. Use the fabric it’ll save you a lot of headaches! You can omit the fabric if you use a rated filter rock but it’s very expensive and the quarries will bait and switch by selling you a product that “looks” good but won’t work. Filter rock is highly engineered and must be tested to confirm that it is what it is! Like I said, it’s expensive. I hope this helps you a little.
@@stewartwhittier3455 So why is there clay in the rock on the far right experiment with the surface drain in it?
@@benkenobi671 Hi Ben! I hope I get the intent of your question, I had to watch the video again to see what you are talking about. There are 3 possible answers. If you're talking about the appearance of soil you can see through the box, below the fabric, I'm guessing that when building the box some soil got in there. If you're looking at the presence of muddy water in the solid pipe, that migrated there from the top during surface drainage. Most clay floats to a certain extent. If you look at the perf pipe on the right of the box, there's no water. Given time there will be. Lastly the possibility exists that the muddy water in the box rolled down the side of the box around the outside of the fabric into the rock. All of this presents an interesting scenario that we use in large commercial construction where the stakes are very high if one of these systems fail. I've been called out to mitigate failed drainage systems that contributed to retaining wall failure that jeopardized life and limb and shut down a whole Home Depot parking lot for ages. Big bucks! Soil migration into rock is a serious situation and can cause disasters. We recommend in our geotechnical reports that all sub drains/wall drains have a burrito drain installed at the base of the wall. This prevents water migrating into the rock from unwanted areas and almost removes failure options. When installed, the rock/pipe/rock combo is wrapped with ends folded over securely creating a closed drain system. This is way better than the method of just laying the fabric over the rock between soil and rock. The method in the video works but not forever, plus, what about the side walls where there is no fabric? There is a high probability migration occurs this way. It's not just from above. For garden and residential applications if you do what Dr. Drains is doing you'll be head and shoulders above most. In fairness to Dr. Drains, he may cover all side walls during construction and that's good. But, unless you have a burrito, you'll get clogged gravel in time. If you want a near foolproof solution and an effective one, go with a burrito drain. We won't approve any work without one. I hope this helps! By the way, the presenter of this video is very knowledgable and presenting very useful info! All...use commercial filter fabric, always! Go to a supplier of these materials, don't source at box stores.
Wow interesting....
im thinking about using the NDS ez drain pipe it has the pipe wrapped and poly rocks wrapped around it already but im curious if i should use another layer of fabric on the bottom then lay the pipe down or is the fabic that comes around the pipe good enough? my soil is dirt on top about 10 inches down then i have clay .
Why, when clicking on the Amazon link for the fabric, Amazon says that page cannot be found. Please fix this as I need to start building my drains.
Would you want to put fabric also *under* the gravel layer?
what is the difference between a soaraway and a french drain?
Brilliant
I am wondering if my leach line not being fabric wrapped be why I am starting to get tracks in my yard where my septic leach lines are? could they be stealing soil like the non-fabric drain lines are here? The system is between 15-25 years old.
Whats happen if i dont have earth its a grave garden ...need it anyway ?
great video man!! Really good info for a southern landcaper! Yall need an alabama franchise?
Is filter fabric the same as weed guard?
Do you run both lines separately or can you join them (surface and French) together into one line?
Can a car drive and park on a spot with a french drain?
Can you just connect the catch basin to the french drain instead of using both solid and perforated pipe?
From another video I watch the reason u have two different types of pipes is because the quality of the water . The French drain get the water that soaked on the surface and raised to the bottom is filter this way and is cleaner the reason why this is important is because it doesn’t clog the slits in the pipe if it’s clogged it will not work . The yard drain the surface water which is full of dirt and leaves it will u can flush this one out Also if u want to connect your gutter spout u want to connect it to the solid pipe since it could clog the French drain pipe
No fabric underneath the stone and pipe?
Nice video. I am doing a French drain project. What type of fabric do you recommend? Name or where to get it online?
What happens when the fabric becomes plugged up?
Initially I thought the same thing but what is going to plug it up? The same clay that already allowed the water to seep through itself!
@@dm-zx7xb this was what I thought, but I was wrong. It's called geotextile blinding and basically if you have a dispersive clay the fine parts migrate towards the fabric as it tries to get rid of the water and blocks the outside of the fabric instead. I have spent years researching it all after the first french drain was a disaster with no fabric laid by builders so decided to do it properly with fabric... However I have spent 6 months inspection daily watching what is happening before I went and put thousands of pounds of soil on the top and I'm glad I did because the problem now is that the outside of the fabric is blocked, inside is squeeky clear but the whole point was to get rid of a seep spring, don't get me wrong its a ginormous improvement to what it was like before but it's far from perfect. I am currently working on how to resolve this hence coming across this video but instead of anyone having a real helpful answer they all just argue and call each other out about one's use of fabric or no fabric instead of the scientific evidence behind it and pros and cons.
So to answer your question @gregwallace quite simply, it stops working 😂😂😂
@@lala_land86 interesting! What state do you live in? I'm in Georgia and we have thick clay. I can see it doing what you said though.
@@lala_land86 You are right....I was being a smart ass.LOLOLOLOL!
We are in the plan ing pricess of doing french drain in our yard. What best fabric to order?
Excellent video