I think it depends on how serious people think they should handle a lowered car. A lot of them (maybe most of them) automatically assumed that just lower the suspension and you'll get everything. But when you really look into it, you may need the correct roll center with a control arm mounting kit; you may need the correct steering with the bump-steer kit; the correct camber gain with the adjustable suspension mount; the correct caster gain with the adjustable length control arm. And the problem will be more complex if it isn't double-wishbone with 2 A-arms, things just getting more complex. I gave up lowing my suspension after I built an excel sheet calculating it.
Excellent points, agree. Bump steer is always an issue when changing suspension geometry. On the street it's usually not noticeable to the average driver, but at any fast pace then things like spacers on the tie rod to get the angle right become much more important.
That's how i first heard about it even...lowered my car to max as it could, tried it driving a bit harder, got dissapointed in coilovers and then i found out 😂😂...it all needs to go to it's place after you lower it..
Thanks for an explanation that includes the CG as it relates to roll center. Most videos say not too low and not too high but never say why. Simple explanation that I can grasp!
If you do that you maximize non elastic weight transfer and should get difficult grip control at the limit. Usually people want a low RC to handle the weight transfer by suspension and compensate roll with ARBs.
Nice . Its a pain in the ass to change the mini geometry with how those ball joints work . This will definitely be easier than relocating pivot points.
Great work, good explanation. I've been a licensed technician for over 47 year's and it drives me nuts, that people insist on dropping the care without knowing the huge ramifications it has on steering geometry.. the best and cheapest way to lowering the car is raised spindles or steering knuckle.. keeps all factory geometry, fast and easy.. i have no patience for those who cut spring's and create very dangerous camber, SAI, turn out radius, etc.. Playing with drop spindles or the right rated spring's make it for a perfect handling car.. Keep up the great work..
Well, I am happy that I didn't lower my Mini: rollcenter stays ok and I even have some sort of suspension travel! The latter is also important for good handling.. 👌🏻
so hey i saw you're video awesome info! so for example for my rsx or Dc5 whatever you wanna call it, i need lower ball joints there worn since i lowered the car i noticed i feel the road alot more but noticed more bump steer and steering wandering would you recommend roll center correction for regualr street driving? and what would be best K-tuned or Buddy club i know its not a mini but i thought i ask thank you like and subscribed
So one option is lowering the pickup point where the lower arm connects to the hub with the spacer. Am I right in thinking that raising the point where the lower arm connects to the chassis would have the same effect? (custom subframe)
From my limited understanding yes it would have the same effect but the height adjustment on the chassis wouldn’t be as drastic as the the same height adjustment to the hub since it’s closer to the rc. Someone may correct me if I’m wrong
when lowering a car say 1" does that mean you need to move the pivot point the same 1" to reset roll centre or does it depend on the type of geometry the suspension uses?
I think it depends on how serious people think they should handle a lowered car. A lot of them (maybe most of them) automatically assumed that just lower the suspension and you'll get everything. But when you really look into it, you may need the correct roll center with a control arm mounting kit; you may need the correct steering with the bump-steer kit; the correct camber gain with the adjustable suspension mount; the correct caster gain with the adjustable length control arm. And the problem will be more complex if it isn't double-wishbone with 2 A-arms, things just getting more complex. I gave up lowing my suspension after I built an excel sheet calculating it.
Excellent points, agree. Bump steer is always an issue when changing suspension geometry. On the street it's usually not noticeable to the average driver, but at any fast pace then things like spacers on the tie rod to get the angle right become much more important.
That's how i first heard about it even...lowered my car to max as it could, tried it driving a bit harder, got dissapointed in coilovers and then i found out 😂😂...it all needs to go to it's place after you lower it..
Glad this video exists, planning a build and a friend of mine had mentioned roll center adjusters and had no clue wtf those were.
Thanks for an explanation that includes the CG as it relates to roll center. Most videos say not too low and not too high but never say why. Simple explanation that I can grasp!
Amaizing and simple explanation that not many speaks about. You are getting better and better. Cheers.
If you do that you maximize non elastic weight transfer and should get difficult grip control at the limit. Usually people want a low RC to handle the weight transfer by suspension and compensate roll with ARBs.
First Comment. Just found your channel! Watching straight for the last three hours.
This explanation is so good
Short and clear!
Amazing explanation, thank you
Nice . Its a pain in the ass to change the mini geometry with how those ball joints work . This will definitely be easier than relocating pivot points.
Nice video, clear explanation! I have only one question... What will happen with your KPI angle? Isn't it increasing your scrub radius?
Great work, good explanation. I've been a licensed technician for over 47 year's and it drives me nuts, that people insist on dropping the care without knowing the huge ramifications it has on steering geometry.. the best and cheapest way to lowering the car is raised spindles or steering knuckle.. keeps all factory geometry, fast and easy.. i have no patience for those who cut spring's and create very dangerous camber, SAI, turn out radius, etc..
Playing with drop spindles or the right rated spring's make it for a perfect handling car..
Keep up the great work..
great video! thanks for the clear description
Hey when are you going to do a vid about bump steering. This would help me out a lot 👍🏼😊 thanks
Great video and explanation. Thank you.
Well, I am happy that I didn't lower my Mini: rollcenter stays ok and I even have some sort of suspension travel! The latter is also important for good handling.. 👌🏻
Gr8 explanation.....thanks..
Big help
Thank u Teacher.
Very cool. Thank you :)
Moving the roll centre up will cause jacking down, the best way to lower the car is to change the inner and outer ball joint positions
Having a low roll center is fun tho. 😂
What happens when the two lines don’t meet at all btw?
Perfect vid!
so hey i saw you're video awesome info! so for example for my rsx or Dc5 whatever you wanna call it, i need lower ball joints there worn since i lowered the car i noticed i feel the road alot more but noticed more bump steer and steering wandering would you recommend roll center correction for regualr street driving? and what would be best K-tuned or Buddy club i know its not a mini but i thought i ask thank you like and subscribed
It's always good to correct bump steer when possible.
@@Stevestonmotorco what would you recommend buddy club ball joints or ktuned
So one option is lowering the pickup point where the lower arm connects to the hub with the spacer.
Am I right in thinking that raising the point where the lower arm connects to the chassis would have the same effect? (custom subframe)
Yes that would change the angle too
From my limited understanding yes it would have the same effect but the height adjustment on the chassis wouldn’t be as drastic as the the same height adjustment to the hub since it’s closer to the rc. Someone may correct me if I’m wrong
can i use rca's to lower my car from stock? just wanna lower front to match rear height
Would you say this is worth doing as I have Highlow’s in my mini?
Does this only apply when using lowering springs or adjustable suspension?
Apart from the spacered ball joint, we could also use adjustable lower arms?
You can use adjustable lower arms to adjust camber and castor, but they won't really affect roll center
how can you correct the rear?
when lowering a car say 1" does that mean you need to move the pivot point the same 1" to reset roll centre or does it depend on the type of geometry the suspension uses?
It depends on the suspension design. But correction is usually some combination of changing arm lengths and pivot points.
Do you also have Metro type extender ball joints
We don't carry them at this time. KAD makes extenders for metro type ball joints, however.
So using tires with a larger offset would also affect roll center?
Yes, because the centre of the contact patch is moved however the effect would be small.
@@embeetwelve
So its lowering the car that affects it a lot?
@@ibome466 yes, changing the stock ride height will change the roll centre more, but it might not always be a bad thing, it might even perform better.
How’d you get so smart?
What about the rear?
The trailing arm design doesn't really allow for roll center to be changed on a mini.
everything you are saying is counter to every engineering explanation of roll center.
every person who tries to explain this adds to the confusion.
Your link is bad!
damn sold out
404 PAGE NOT FOUND