I purposefully made this a pretty basic, introductory-level overview on how unions could work and benefit the gaming industry, but if you would like to learn more, here is a twitter thread I made with helpful resources to better understand this issue. twitter.com/drew_type/status/1139541861545074688
Please request @Telltale series Or @skybound at Twitter to Make another season Of Walking Dead or add an episode 5 of Season 4 To put a Final end to Walks Fullfill Clem's wish a world without monsters
I worked at telltale games and I want to thank you for making this video. I know a lot of my co workers are still processing what happened but things do get better.
Thank you! I'm glad you enjoyed the video, and thank you for your work at Telltale. Obviously I already said it in the video, but those games really meant a lot to me and many other.
I'm only at 2:42 mark and it reminded me of a phone conversation .When I was playing Murdered :Soul Suspect and I asked him "What there was a game where the story was better than its game play?" ,he said "It would suck" which this honestly among other reason has made me question our "friendship" I just felt like sharing
Just finished “Guardians of the Galaxy” recently and when I finished it I told myself “man Telltale Games made such great games that made us feel that we were right there in the story and how much we cared about the characters”. Games like this don’t really exist anymore in which nowadays it’s all about the money and less about actual storytelling and gameplay. Rip Telltale Games, they are gone but never forgotten. 🙌
I have a few questions: 1. What is your opinion on Telltale's revival? Are you optimistic about their future and 2nd chance in the industry? 2. Since COVID-19 has struck folks extremely hard, do you think the option of working from home may be an avenue for game designers to take in the future provided they have the means and tools?
I haven’t really looked into the new Telltale since it was announced, but at the time it was essentially just a revival in name only. I know they said something to the effect of they would like to rehire as many people as possible from the original TTG, but considering how long it had been since they had been laid off, and the fact that they would have to relocate to southern California, my guess is there isn’t going to be a lot of actual carryover there. As to whether or not I’m optimistic about Telltale’s return, that’s hard to say. As always, I hope that the people who do end up working there, presumably because they have a passion for the kinds of games Telltale used to make, have a much better environment to work in than their predecessors did (also, it’d be cool if the games were good too). But, you still have a company buying up old properties and assets primarily because of the name value Telltale had (after all, there’s a reason they decided to keep the name even though it’s entirely new people) and the new company doesn’t have any experience in game dev outside of mobile. So you have largely the same setup that failed the old Telltale and that has harmed other game studio across the world, so it’s hard for me to say I’m “optimistic” about it, mostly because I’m not really optimistic about any corporately structured game development. Basically I’m just hoping for the best out of a less than ideal situation. In regards to your second question about WFH, once again in an ideal world, this should be great, as it would open up the world of game dev to basically anyone with an internet connection. Unfortunately, from what I’ve heard about how many studios have made the transition to working from home, there are still some big pitfalls to overcome. Undoubtedly, part of the issue has been that no one actually had time to prepare for any of this and people have mostly been learning how best to do things as they go, but another problem is the scope and scale of development. If you’re working on a tiny 2D indie platformer, it’s probably easy for you to work on that with a team that is scattered across the country or even the globe. But if you’re working on a big AAA game, the size of the assets you’re working with can be hard to manage. You need to have the proper hardware to store all of that stuff, and even with good internet, it might take you hours to upload a new build to a server so other people can work on/look at it. So while I’m sure this will end up changing many aspects of game dev, I don’t think the idea of having physical spaces where people go to work and make a game is dead just yet. With this in mind, the thing I’d like to see is more studios moving to places outside of the handful of super-expensive metropolitan cities in the U.S. so it’s easier for more kinds of people to get jobs in the industry. Or you know, if they insist on that, then actually pay people enough for them to live in those really expensive cities and stop relying on an abundance of contract work and firing half the staff after every game release. But even that is sadly, probably wishful thinking on my part. Sorry for the overly long response, but I assume since you took the time to ask the questions, you were hopefully expecting the answers weren’t going to be short. Although they’re not the most optimistic answers hopefully their at least satisfying ones to read.
@@SelectScreen Thank you for such a detailed response! I forgot to mention this in my original comment, but I greatly enjoyed this video as well! I'm looking forward to checking out your other content
Telltale games really made their games so well sure they weren’t open worlds but they made the worlds seem so alive and everything just made you feel for it you know
I'm only 20 seconds in, but I don't quite understand the repeated rheteotic about TT reviving the adventure genre. Sure conversing with NPCs is a large part of that genre but the puzzle aspect was very prominent as well. To me, the games based on the TWD formula were high budget visual novels. And that genre has never needed a revival since it wasn't dead. And none of this even brings up the handful of indie, mostly european, companies who continued to bear the torch of the adventure genre after Sam and Max Eps 3. Stuff like Deadalic, Killmonday Games, Amanita Design, Harvester Games, and Owl Cave. Honestly, the adventure series has been growing strong without TTs help. Which is a shame because I still hold their pre-Back to the Future games in very high regard. I wish they could have stuck with the old formula, even if it was alongside the branches that were working on the visual novel games.
I was speaking more broadly about the way the general gaming public views adventure games. Of course if you're a die-hard fan of the genre you know there is a lot more nuance to these distinctions, but for a large portion of players, especially those that grew up mostly playing shooters or platformers, if you ask them what an adventure game is, before The Walking Dead they'd probably have said something like Maniac Mansion and after they would most likely say something akin to a Telltale game.
Heck yeah, game devs should unionize! And, whenever they do, we have to do our part as consumers: don't fall for management propaganda telling us the bad old workers made the games cost more; and, as much as possible, pressure the executives to cut their own pay instead of raising prices. ✊ P.S. Drew, thanks for making this.
The first game I bought from them was Back to the Future BUT it wasn't the game that got me into Telltale or into episodic gaming as a whole... No, it wasn't The Walking Dead No, it wasn't The Wolf Among Us ..... That game was Tales from the Borderlands, one of the best, greatest and amazing episodic game experience I ever played back in 2016. RIP Telltale To me, Telltale Games was the Pixar Animation Studios of the gaming industry.
Worth noting that another studio has spawned : Ad Hoc studios, by former Telltale employees : variety.com/2019/gaming/news/adhoc-studio-telltale-ubisoft-1203128704/
"But if there is one silver lining [...] crunch usually only happens in the last few months leading up to a big release." It's just messed up that that's a silver lining. Like... months. Plural. I used to work part time in Christmas retail on top of my usual job, so something like 50-60 hours a week. And that 1.5 month was... well, doable, but certainly the limit. To think several months of that amount of work (or more) is the _better_ option... ugh. I really wish there was something like the Fairtrade certificate for games. Yanno, products that are often made under bad working conditions cause the places they come from don't have strict labour laws or they aren't enforced can get independently certified that they pay people properly and don't haev child labour and such. There should be a thing like that for games, cause clearly it's needed. "A health condition that doesn't allow them to work 80 hours a week" like... being human? Yeah, horribly inconvenient condition that one. I really don't get how unions are contentious. I picked my career _because_ the metal/hard tech union is strong in Germany, and so it's a good field to work in. I'm happy with my job, the companies in the field are happy to have more workers who are very likely to stick to their jobs. Win win. And like... yeah, unions are political or can be at least, sure. But mostly they're just _convenient_. If I have thousands of employees I probably don't wanna sit down with each and every one of them to negotiate their wage and stuff. And as an employee myself I don't wanna have to negotiate things myself either, that sounds tedious lol. So it's just much easier for everyone involved if the employees have representatives. Whether and how unions use their power is a second question and depends on the union. "Not chosing a side is a valid option, but please also know it isn't a neutral one." This is something so many people don't understand, regarding so many things. Absolutely great video. Thank you.
Unfortunately, if there's one thing I've learned about corporations, it's that they're fine with inconvenience so long as it also means they make slightly more money.
Peoples made WALKING dead All seasons wont be forgotten But Request is Plss add Episode 5 For season 4 or Add Episode 5 of Ajs Story in 2020s Put a Final end to walkers
If you think that CEOs and investors have no sympathy for thier workers then you are sadly mistaken, you've never sat in on a board meeting or lived the stress of having to take care of hundreds of even thousands of people. Sometimes you have to cut 100 jobs to save a thousand elsewhere.
I'm not sure your comment makes much sense in this context. As I already laid out in the video, Telltale was in that exact situation where they did lay off 90 employees to save the 300 other jobs at the studio a year before it went under, and they still had to close up shop anyway. The obvious problems here are 1) those 90 people lost their jobs BECAUSE they were making the games management told them to make, and yet they were the ones punished when they didn't sell well, and 2) in the long run, those 90 people ended up being the lucky ones since they at least got severance and benefits when they were let go, a luxury those other 300 people whose jobs were "saved" were not afforded a year later. And for the record, I never said I thought CEOs or investors had no sympathy for their employees, the point is that, that doesn't matter. The problem is systemic not personal, and a CEO's guilty conscious or sleepless nights won't pay for hundreds of employee's healthcare and rent.
I purposefully made this a pretty basic, introductory-level overview on how unions could work and benefit the gaming industry, but if you would like to learn more, here is a twitter thread I made with helpful resources to better understand this issue. twitter.com/drew_type/status/1139541861545074688
Please request @Telltale series Or @skybound at Twitter to Make another season Of Walking Dead or add an episode 5 of Season 4 To put a Final end to Walks Fullfill Clem's wish a world without monsters
I worked at telltale games and I want to thank you for making this video. I know a lot of my co workers are still processing what happened but things do get better.
Thank you! I'm glad you enjoyed the video, and thank you for your work at Telltale. Obviously I already said it in the video, but those games really meant a lot to me and many other.
Beautifully compiled episode. All power to workers.
We missed telltale games 😭😭🤧🤧
Great video dude! Telltale games were so important to me, and it really is awful that what happened to the company and its employees happened
I don't even remember subscribing to you, but im glad I did. Good video.
I'm only at 2:42 mark and it reminded me of a phone conversation .When I was playing Murdered :Soul Suspect and I asked him "What there was a game where the story was better than its game play?" ,he said "It would suck" which this honestly among other reason has made me question our "friendship" I just felt like sharing
RIP Telltale, The most underdog studio I ever enjoyed so damn much
Just finished “Guardians of the Galaxy” recently and when I finished it I told myself “man Telltale Games made such great games that made us feel that we were right there in the story and how much we cared about the characters”. Games like this don’t really exist anymore in which nowadays it’s all about the money and less about actual storytelling and gameplay. Rip Telltale Games, they are gone but never forgotten. 🙌
I always loved Telltale. Nothing was like it... let's hope the revival brings back the games we loved.
I gonna miss telltale sooo much😢
I have a few questions:
1. What is your opinion on Telltale's revival? Are you optimistic about their future and 2nd chance in the industry?
2. Since COVID-19 has struck folks extremely hard, do you think the option of working from home may be an avenue for game designers to take in the future provided they have the means and tools?
I haven’t really looked into the new Telltale since it was announced, but at the time it was essentially just a revival in name only. I know they said something to the effect of they would like to rehire as many people as possible from the original TTG, but considering how long it had been since they had been laid off, and the fact that they would have to relocate to southern California, my guess is there isn’t going to be a lot of actual carryover there.
As to whether or not I’m optimistic about Telltale’s return, that’s hard to say. As always, I hope that the people who do end up working there, presumably because they have a passion for the kinds of games Telltale used to make, have a much better environment to work in than their predecessors did (also, it’d be cool if the games were good too). But, you still have a company buying up old properties and assets primarily because of the name value Telltale had (after all, there’s a reason they decided to keep the name even though it’s entirely new people) and the new company doesn’t have any experience in game dev outside of mobile. So you have largely the same setup that failed the old Telltale and that has harmed other game studio across the world, so it’s hard for me to say I’m “optimistic” about it, mostly because I’m not really optimistic about any corporately structured game development. Basically I’m just hoping for the best out of a less than ideal situation.
In regards to your second question about WFH, once again in an ideal world, this should be great, as it would open up the world of game dev to basically anyone with an internet connection. Unfortunately, from what I’ve heard about how many studios have made the transition to working from home, there are still some big pitfalls to overcome. Undoubtedly, part of the issue has been that no one actually had time to prepare for any of this and people have mostly been learning how best to do things as they go, but another problem is the scope and scale of development.
If you’re working on a tiny 2D indie platformer, it’s probably easy for you to work on that with a team that is scattered across the country or even the globe. But if you’re working on a big AAA game, the size of the assets you’re working with can be hard to manage. You need to have the proper hardware to store all of that stuff, and even with good internet, it might take you hours to upload a new build to a server so other people can work on/look at it. So while I’m sure this will end up changing many aspects of game dev, I don’t think the idea of having physical spaces where people go to work and make a game is dead just yet.
With this in mind, the thing I’d like to see is more studios moving to places outside of the handful of super-expensive metropolitan cities in the U.S. so it’s easier for more kinds of people to get jobs in the industry. Or you know, if they insist on that, then actually pay people enough for them to live in those really expensive cities and stop relying on an abundance of contract work and firing half the staff after every game release. But even that is sadly, probably wishful thinking on my part.
Sorry for the overly long response, but I assume since you took the time to ask the questions, you were hopefully expecting the answers weren’t going to be short. Although they’re not the most optimistic answers hopefully their at least satisfying ones to read.
@@SelectScreen Thank you for such a detailed response!
I forgot to mention this in my original comment, but I greatly enjoyed this video as well! I'm looking forward to checking out your other content
Phenomenal work, man.
Idk if anyone gonna see this but I guess telltale said
I'll see you around .... wolf
Telltale games really made their games so well sure they weren’t open worlds but they made the worlds seem so alive and everything just made you feel for it you know
I'm only 20 seconds in, but I don't quite understand the repeated rheteotic about TT reviving the adventure genre. Sure conversing with NPCs is a large part of that genre but the puzzle aspect was very prominent as well. To me, the games based on the TWD formula were high budget visual novels. And that genre has never needed a revival since it wasn't dead. And none of this even brings up the handful of indie, mostly european, companies who continued to bear the torch of the adventure genre after Sam and Max Eps 3. Stuff like Deadalic, Killmonday Games, Amanita Design, Harvester Games, and Owl Cave. Honestly, the adventure series has been growing strong without TTs help. Which is a shame because I still hold their pre-Back to the Future games in very high regard. I wish they could have stuck with the old formula, even if it was alongside the branches that were working on the visual novel games.
I was speaking more broadly about the way the general gaming public views adventure games. Of course if you're a die-hard fan of the genre you know there is a lot more nuance to these distinctions, but for a large portion of players, especially those that grew up mostly playing shooters or platformers, if you ask them what an adventure game is, before The Walking Dead they'd probably have said something like Maniac Mansion and after they would most likely say something akin to a Telltale game.
Heck yeah, game devs should unionize! And, whenever they do, we have to do our part as consumers: don't fall for management propaganda telling us the bad old workers made the games cost more; and, as much as possible, pressure the executives to cut their own pay instead of raising prices. ✊
P.S. Drew, thanks for making this.
✊
Excellent video! cant belive this only has 3k views
Thanks!
I wish I could’ve gotten to play more but I’ll never forget the one I did play in full, MCSM
Is telltale back?
How did you manage this? I'm in awe
Mostly a lot of research, and a surplus of frustration that this stuff keeps happening over and over at game companies I love.
RIP TELLTALE GAMES BACK TO THE FUTURE WAS THEIR BEST GAME!!!!!!
That was excellent
Telltale games is back!
I feel like a similar video to add to where to start if you’re new here is the one of mr freeze. He did a very nice job with that one.
The first game I bought from them was Back to the Future BUT it wasn't the game that got me into Telltale or into episodic gaming as a whole...
No, it wasn't The Walking Dead
No, it wasn't The Wolf Among Us
.....
That game was Tales from the Borderlands, one of the best, greatest and amazing episodic game experience I ever played back in 2016.
RIP Telltale
To me, Telltale Games was the Pixar Animation Studios of the gaming industry.
wait did u love back to the future that is my favirote game
*insert red dead redemption 2 song "that's the way it is"*
Worth noting that another studio has spawned : Ad Hoc studios, by former Telltale employees :
variety.com/2019/gaming/news/adhoc-studio-telltale-ubisoft-1203128704/
Telltale Games have been revived by another company.
"But if there is one silver lining [...] crunch usually only happens in the last few months leading up to a big release." It's just messed up that that's a silver lining. Like... months. Plural. I used to work part time in Christmas retail on top of my usual job, so something like 50-60 hours a week. And that 1.5 month was... well, doable, but certainly the limit. To think several months of that amount of work (or more) is the _better_ option... ugh.
I really wish there was something like the Fairtrade certificate for games. Yanno, products that are often made under bad working conditions cause the places they come from don't have strict labour laws or they aren't enforced can get independently certified that they pay people properly and don't haev child labour and such. There should be a thing like that for games, cause clearly it's needed.
"A health condition that doesn't allow them to work 80 hours a week" like... being human? Yeah, horribly inconvenient condition that one.
I really don't get how unions are contentious. I picked my career _because_ the metal/hard tech union is strong in Germany, and so it's a good field to work in. I'm happy with my job, the companies in the field are happy to have more workers who are very likely to stick to their jobs. Win win. And like... yeah, unions are political or can be at least, sure. But mostly they're just _convenient_. If I have thousands of employees I probably don't wanna sit down with each and every one of them to negotiate their wage and stuff. And as an employee myself I don't wanna have to negotiate things myself either, that sounds tedious lol. So it's just much easier for everyone involved if the employees have representatives. Whether and how unions use their power is a second question and depends on the union.
"Not chosing a side is a valid option, but please also know it isn't a neutral one." This is something so many people don't understand, regarding so many things.
Absolutely great video. Thank you.
Unfortunately, if there's one thing I've learned about corporations, it's that they're fine with inconvenience so long as it also means they make slightly more money.
Ha, yeah. Especially _short term_ money. Long run they'd probably be more profitable if they did things sensibly.
Nice vid
Good vid
Peoples made WALKING dead All seasons wont be forgotten But Request is Plss add Episode 5 For season 4 or Add Episode 5 of Ajs Story in 2020s Put a Final end to walkers
If you think that CEOs and investors have no sympathy for thier workers then you are sadly mistaken, you've never sat in on a board meeting or lived the stress of having to take care of hundreds of even thousands of people. Sometimes you have to cut 100 jobs to save a thousand elsewhere.
Ahh yes, won't someone think of the thousands of telltale jobs they saved
I'm not sure your comment makes much sense in this context. As I already laid out in the video, Telltale was in that exact situation where they did lay off 90 employees to save the 300 other jobs at the studio a year before it went under, and they still had to close up shop anyway. The obvious problems here are 1) those 90 people lost their jobs BECAUSE they were making the games management told them to make, and yet they were the ones punished when they didn't sell well, and 2) in the long run, those 90 people ended up being the lucky ones since they at least got severance and benefits when they were let go, a luxury those other 300 people whose jobs were "saved" were not afforded a year later.
And for the record, I never said I thought CEOs or investors had no sympathy for their employees, the point is that, that doesn't matter. The problem is systemic not personal, and a CEO's guilty conscious or sleepless nights won't pay for hundreds of employee's healthcare and rent.