The Great Empire of the Dawn
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- Опубліковано 7 жов 2016
- The Long Night, Azor Ahai, Strange Stone, Dragonlords & ancient bloodlines. This ep w/Mythical Astronomy of Ice & Fire has it all!
LmL's Mythical Astronomy of Ice and Fire: bit.ly/2dSSqU8
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Link to the Q&A on Sat Oct 22nd: bit.ly/2dD4ie9
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Durran Durrandon's "Daenerys is the Amethyst Empress Reborn" Essay: bit.ly/2dVGNQD
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Also available on iTunes: apple.co/2dCB7aV - Розваги
Oh my sweet jesus, I just discovered this channel through reddit. I've spent countless hours across ASOIAF forums and wikis, and am now stoked I have 240+ hrs to geek out on here. Awesome video, thanks!
Hey thanks, and welcome aboard!
I come back to this episode multiple times a year. This is my fav topic. Really would love a show about this time period. Even if they don't call it GoT.
This is my comfort video in these dark times. The Long Night is coming for our world too but your guys videos brings the light
Brother read One piece or Attack on Titan you will feel much better! JK
The Blood Betrayal story reminds me of Ar-Farazon and the Fall of Numenor-usurping a sibling's/cousin throne, practicing black magic, worshiping a new "dark" deity, causing the wrath of the true gods, who turn away from mankind forever.
These are my absolute favorite kind of episodes from you guys! Getting into the mythical, historical, etc.
I also love LmL here as always. I very much enjoy his essays.
I've been hyped to see this, it didn't disappoint! Thanks and love y'all. ❤
Very kind of you to say! Happy to provide the quality entertainment! It's a really big piece of the ASOIAF backstory puzzle, I think, and I am excited to see what we might learn in the next book. Euron might go on some shade-of-the-evening-induced rant about the Bloodstone Emperor in some TWOW chapter, we just do not know. :)
This was really great! I came here from The Disputed Lands. This was recommended by her in one of her videos! Some connections I hadn't made yet, some suspicions I've had that you guys have too. I will say this though after watching your (and hers) video, the HBO show and reading the books, I firmly believe Weirwoods and the trees whose leaves make Shade of the Evening potion are cousins. Weirwood gradually petrifies into hard white stone after it dies. I suspect Shade of the Evening trees do too (The Disputed Lands), and when they petrify into hard, black stone that drinks the light, they also appear oily or maybe exude a small bit of oily-looking "sap" as they go through the petrification process. If Shade of the Evening trees were once as plentiful in Essos as Weirwoods were once in Westeros, then they would have been used for building. In the yards around the House of the Undying are groves of these trees. When Dany, Jorah and her bloodriders go there it's said how even during the day there is almost no light in the groves and the trees seem to "drink the light". Weirwood paste, Shade of the Evening potion; both these tree species are magical. Why wouldn't the Most Magical city in the world be built from magical trees? Since we don't know the exact length of the petrification process, I'm gonna hypothesize that the buildings weren't oily at first. But consider this - knowing what we know about Asshai and the Bloodstone Emperor do we really think that people who practiced dark and foul arts would care if their city was gloomy and creepy? Wouldn't that serve their purposes better? Or maybe things didn't get this creepy in Asshai until after the Bloodstone Emperor was defeated? I've rambled too long, lol, it's so wonderful finding videos and people talking about the mysteries and puzzles of ASOIAF that I love too! I hope you guys are doing really well in 2022. Have a great weekend. :))
When Tyrion meet Illyrio, he notices that he has rings on his hands: onyx, opal, tiger's eye and tourmaline, ruby, amethyst, sapphire, emerald, jet and jade, a black diamond and a green pearl. Could it simply be a large man with a larger bank account and the desire to show off, or might it fit into the larger plot? I'm thinking about Daenerys being the only character compared to amethyst. Maybe Illyrio thinks he can wear Daenerys like a ring but Aegon is different.
Those colours keep appearing over and over again, so it's very unlikely to be a coincidence
... how bout milisandre telling arya "eyes of green, eyes of blue, eyes of..." as such the gods predating the dawn
@@endgamecaliberwarframe-pc6943 please never mention the show again.
Uuuu up with you xszxz
Hello hello Sarah Play Apple I have there is Emma Fälth or Albin I thought the finger at me oh hi Play playlist
I miss episodes like this. 👍
This is AWESOME!
GrayArea thanks for the link. Watching while drinking my juice🍷 to get through the long night .
Shit just got real.
I know. Suddenly everything just got awesome all up in youtube
Excellent (Burns' voice)
Smithers... massage my brain.
This is so exciting the great empire of the dawn is one of my favorite aspects of ASOIAF lore Thank you for uploading
Maybe I missed it, but I think you left out an excellent piece of supporting evidence - "Edric Shadowchaser" : When you linked the names still given to kings of the Diaspora of the Dawn Empire to the various names for the long night hero my mind immediately put the story together: -Edric Shadowchaser was the last name unaccounted for by a specific group descended from the Empire -Daynes still name their children Edric -Daynes have purple eyes, sometimes silver hair, sometimes black hair, pre-date Valyria, and are of mysterious origin -Daynes have a sword, castle, and history that suggest ancient power ---Daynes are probably a lost branch of the diaspora and may also be descended from the original long night hero, or one of them if there were several / a group) Obviously you guys got to the Daynes=protovalyrian=probably-EotD-descendants thing, but I didn't hear you link them to Edric Shadowchaser! Also, the other Edric I can think of (Storm) is linked to Storm's End / Baratheons / Durrandons, also marked by you as having potential protovalyrian descent. Phenomenal video as always, full of incredible and sharp insights. This one appeared by its name to be tangential, but was at the heart of everything!
Right on William. It was really hard to decide what to include and what not to, there is so much that relates to so many different things. But to your point, yes, I have certainly noticed that Eldric is close to Edric Dayne. There's also a Ulrick Dayne who was a SOTM, and the Starks have an Edric Snowbeard and an Elric Stark. I have been saying on my podcast for a while that I think Eldric Shadowchaser may be the Westerosi name for Azor Ahai, and also the same person as the Last Hero, or perhaps the father of the LH, etc. I tend to think the Last Hero is tied to both Starks and Daynes.
One of my favorite ASOIAF videos!
Woo! Let's do this folks! I'll be back in a couple hours to see what excellent questions / new crackpot theories you all can bring!
This one was a culmination of several months' work, so we certainly hope you enjoy it.
loved the asshai episode, and GEOTD was probably my favourite section of your essays so I'm excited af
Right on Miguel, then you'll recognize some of these ideas, but this presentation benefits greatly from the scrutiny of Aziz and Ashaya and our collaborative refinement of these ideas. Clearfield brought the serious mojo with his maps and animations, so all in all I am very pleased with how it all came out.Basically, I felt like these ideas are too important to confine them tot he context of my mythical astronomy podcasts, so I thought bringing it to History of Westeros was a good idea... and it worked out great, I think. Let me know when you're done.
If you're still around, there is one question I have. The video mentioned that GRRM himself *confirmed* that the reason the noble houses maintain their stereotypical features is due to magic. Is there a quote for this somewhere?
I have been looking forward to this episode for months! I know how I'm spending Sunday morning before football!
About 5 months ago (just checked) in the comments section of the Asshai video, I proposed the theory that what we think of as Valyria was actually founded by refugees from Asshai, most likely led by Azor Ahai or one of his family members. I am so thrilled to see the three of you delve into a similar concept to a depth that I simply could not. I absolutely loved this video.
Yes, the pieces are all there to be found, good job on spotting them. I've seen a few people put them together since I wrote my original essay last year about the dawn age dragonlords. Once you put it all together, I think it's pretty clear are pretty hard to argue against. It makes too much sense and explains too many things in satisfactory fashion. And at the center of it all - and we tried to emphasize this at the end - we need a way for the Azor Ahai story to be relevant to Westeros. We've all been looking for that since book 2. I am pretty sure this is the answer, or at least the beginning of the answer. There is still a ton of holes... basically, the War for the Dawn and the story of the Long Night. We know it probably involves dragonlords, so how does that fit into Westerosi LN history? The first NW and the LH's group of 13? That is why we are going to have the Q&A / discussion episode as a follow up, to talk about some of this stuff.
Here's a great example of a very well-written theory which makes most of the same connections as we did, from Reddit user "sangeli," definitely worth a read: www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/4ti5rb/spoilers_extended_out_of_asshai_part_14/
And my original from last year on Westeros is here: asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/127025-astronomy-of-planetos-fingerprints-of-the-dawn/
And of course Elio postulated some long lost common ancestor of both Valyria and House Dayne years ago, as we noted at the end of the episode. :)
I'm definitely going to have to check these out. I knew there was no way in hell that I was the only person to think of something like that, but I was excited because it was the first major theory that I came up with on my own, rather than having seen or read someone else proposing it. I really didn't know where I could read up on it though. I'm a little embarrassed to say, I don't think I've ever been on Reddit.
When I wrote that original comment in the other video, I was hoping for a comment saying either "nice catch", or "sorry, timeline doesn't work." I mean, I had said that the thought came to me from having watched the Asshai video a handful of times. If that was enough for me to think that, then there's no way that at least one (more likely all) of you didn't consider the same possibility while researching and putting the video together. The only way that wouldn't have happened is if you had already considered it previously, but discovered something that would have disqualified the idea.
Anyway, that response never came, so imagine how thrilled I was to watch this latest video. No quick yeah or no, but an in-depth discussion from Aziz, Ashaya, and yourself that took it a hell of a lot deeper than I could have. Each one of you knows more about this world than I most likely ever will. In fact, most of my knowledge comes from History of Westeros, Radio Westeros, and (since your first team up with them) Mythical Astronomy of Ice and Fire (at lucifermeanslightbringer.com plug, plug) Seriously though LML, really enjoy the podcast. I might not be sure of all of the theories you throw out there, but they are all incredibly interesting and researched to an astounding level. I imagine Martin himself listening to some of them and thinking, "Wow, I wish I had been going that deep when I wrote that."
After listening to this episode I'm thinking that some scholars of Asshai figured out that the Valyrians were descended from the Amethyst Empress and that that bloodline would be key to protecting the world during the next Long Night. Thus they decided to teach them how to master dragons.
All of this makes me wonder who the so-called "God-on-Earth" really was. I'm starting to think his parents were actually gods in this world (or maybe aliens), which is pretty incredible.
I cannot get enough of these videos. Thank the gods (old and new) that I still have all your old videos to accompany me on my commutes. It is very much appreciated
Just rewatched this today at a friends house and I have to say I never realised how desperately I need to reread Twoiaf!! Great job Ashaya and Aziz as usual. LML, I have read some of your stuff but I definitely need to check your podcast out. Thanks for the great podcast guy! As always it was a very informative and enjoyable experience 😉 I'm looking forward to more Blackfyre stuff and maybe LML could collaborate? Just saying ... Thanks again 😊
Also! LML, for some reason you remind me if Eli Roth! That's a huge compliment from me btw. Just putting that out there.
haha, the eyebrows.
How did I not know about this channel sooner? Good stuff
Faaaack, I'm meant to be doing last minute coursework today!
I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS SINCE THE RELEASE OF THE WORLD OF ICE AND FIRE. YES YES YES YES
Love all your videos, both lml and history of westeros, but I gotta say these collaborations are fantastic, definitely worth watching and rewatching! Thanks for all your hard work you guys!
My phone's internet is so slow that I had to take breaks and watch this episode over the course of three days. Totally worth it. you guys are awesome. I can't wait to see how the story plays out and how close you get to the truth. Keep up the good work!
Terrific video! Been waiting a long time for this
Right when i start to get impatient with you guys waiting for this episode boom you deliver a 3 hour lecture on probably one of the most interesting subjects in the lore. super awesome!! btw those animated map explanations when you were talking about azor ahais different names were really cool and added a lot to the experience. Great job again👍👍
Right on Michael, we were impatient with ourselves too - but as you can see, it's a big topic touching on a lot of different ideas with many potential side-branches to get lost it. It was definitely good to go over it with Aziz until we hammered out the best order. I am very happy with how it came out and now we have something which is accessible to everyone I think. :)
Absolutely fantastic. The more we learn about the GEOTD, the more some of the mysteries of ASOIAF begin to come together and make sense.
Thanks for the tip to read Durran Durrandon's essay, that was also really enjoyable to read.
Right on, Durran's other big theory is one which compares Melisandre to the Night's King corpse queen. I think that one is a super important breakthrough. He's talking about how the corpse queen might have been to ice what Mel is to fire, and I agree.
This has to jump right up there in my top 3 favorite ASOIAF videos. Good job! I love the parallels you can draw here: the forces of light working stone/glass to melt it, fuse it and make weapons out of it. Not much is different in the way the forces of night seem to use ice for similar purposes.
Great episode guys. Can't wait for the live Q&A!
I wish this would be the spin off series that will start when GOT ends.
this was your best video yet! loved the topic, you guys are awesome!
This is the first video I've watched from you guys and I am blown away! Amazing, I appreciate all of the hard work that was put into this and can't believe you don't have more views/likes. Apparently I'm in the minority, but I thought the narrator was fantastic. Can't wait to watch the rest of your videos although it may take me until the next book releases (forever).
Thanks Tom, welcome to the channel! (I was a big fan of MySpace!)
you guys did it.... amazing, and thanks for telling me it would be done about a month ago. you were pretty close. awesome. I have been waiting this.
this was my first of your videos and it was amazing. thank you.
Welcome aboard!
You guys have great content and always look forward to listening to more!
I just finished the series and found ur channel wanted to say I really love what y'all do. Your portion of Dani's weird vision in the House of Undying is the best explanation I've come across and that discription in The World of Ice and Fire of the YiTi rulers pre-The Long Night matches the strangers trying to tell her of Dragons in the Vision. I really think these visions from shade of the evening is crucial to the story and I'm excited another piece of their puzzle of past future and things that never will be has come together this whole episode was a epic meld of crackpot and Lore. I look forward to the days when u revisit this topic while we are waiting for Dreams of Spring.
Long time fan, watcher, reader and listener. I am incredible with voice recognition and I am pretty sure you guys know me by now. Love you guys. P.S. Who knew Lucifer was so handsome. Thanks again for another video.
Yes, we do recognize your name! Thanks for being a steadfast supporter, it's very motivating for us.
I always think of the oily blackstone whenever I cook with a non-stick pan, Haha
forever changed the way I look at non-stick pans :)
I can’t get over how good this episode is. Fascinating stuff
Theres really a title: "The Keeper of the Buzz". You gotta love Westeros
Aziz, Ashaya and LmL your combined knowledge and insight is a nerds dream! It amazes me how much of your time you guys talk about the books but still make it interesting & now all these years down the line. Just shows the stunning genius of GRRM that you guys can actually work full time analysing his works! ..... i do wish he’d get TWOW out though HURRY UP GEORGE 😁😁😁
By far my favorite Westeros History's episode (alongside with the one about Euron Greyjoy).
No matter if it's just speculation. It's awesome!
GRRM would be so proud of you guys. This channel is quite something else I love your videos.
Been listening to your podcast a long time! Congrats on the success of UA-cam and all the other platforms your on
The keys to it all are in here ... and in the age of legends. Well done!
Guys! This totally blew my mind! Awesome work!!!
Hi Aziz, just to let you know that this is my UA-cam handle... from Martin Lewis. Thanks for the shout, I've had plenty of welcome traffic on my Echoes of Ice and Fire page since the episode aired. I'll be putting some nice posts together over the next month, in relation to the episode, compiling artwork relative to The Great Empire of the Dawn".
Now to listen to the rest of the episode...
That all sounds fucking fantastic man! I'll be sure to post a link to your page from my FB here sometime soon, and I'll look forward to all that. :)
This was such a great episode. I'm inspired to create again.
Are you a writer, Don?
No I make youtube videos. I actually did one with Aziz a few months ago on my channel.
Oh right on man, I'll check you out. ;)
Greatly appreciated.
man thanks so much for saying this, that's seriously the best compliment I can imagine. Glad you're a part of the creator community.
Yesssssssss! It's finally here, I confess I did lurk on your guys twitter... so there's that.
Me too, and I don't even have a twitter. Lol. I was creeping the last few days.
Sensational video guys!
An amazing episode as always! I am inspired to create more worldbuilding elements in my own world that I am creating right now!.
David, you are hilarious! I love LML although my brain is usually hurting by the end of his extraordinarily insightful podcasts. Love HoW !!! Keep on keeping on guys!
Fabulous episode! So much great information! 👍
Hey Lily, glad you liked it! It was a lot of hard work but it was fun of course.. I am very glad to finally have all this information available in an easily-digestible format, and HoW really made everything better. My original essay doesn't hold a candle (heh) to what we came out after a good old fashioned team effort here.
The big question for me is House Stark... There's a decent chance House Stark descends from the Last Hero, right? Or maybe NK, or maybe both? That means they could have that GEotD bloodline too. It all comes together at the Last Hero, but we don't have enough info yet to Sussex out exactly what happened.
Wow really great discussion and analysis! Had fun listening and very enlightening! Great job guys and gal! 👍🏼😅
great analysis guys - I would like to add an extra piece of evidence to the Lannisters being descended from the GEotD and adding to the magical flaming swords theme. When Jaime has his dream on the weirwood stump & he is in the bowels of Casterley rock conversing with his ancestors, he ends up holding a pale flaming sword - some people theorise that this means he might be AA but I think it's much more to do with what you were discussing here. Also regarding the Lannisters eyes, all of the names of the gemstone emporers can be found in a green form not just Jade, but onyx, tourmaline, opal etc. too.
Great call, and I just love the idea of "ancestor dreams" as a general concept.
Great video! Thank you
This video blew my mind, almost as hard as PJ's Minds of Wolves and Robins. But that does not make this video any less brilliant. Really just excellent work, clearly well and thoroughly researched. Of course that's the same as every other video, but this was on a topic I knew excitingly little about! I'm home now so time to finish it. Then probably rewatch it to really get into it, there's a lot of information in it!
P.S. Would love to see everyone on Trial by Trivia!
Fantastic video, thank you so much.
WOW great episode guys.
This video has me picturing dragons in high viz vests and hardhats perched around a giant blue print, and a connex converted to an office for the Faceless Men HR department.
Mind opening. Thank you for doing what you do.
Wow I’ve watched this video at least 5 times since it was originally posted and I still haven’t gotten tired of it yet.
loved seeing Martin Lewis on here
Martin did such a great job, was a pleasure to have his talent added to the episode :)
Hey, thank you :o)
Martin here, I really enjoyed contributing to the episode. If you want to hear more of my AGOT/ASOIAF narration, please check out my Mixcloud link...
www.mixcloud.com/ASOIAF/
or my ASOIAF fan page on Facebook...
facebook.com/echoesoficeandfire/
yay a new episode!
Hyrkoon must be a reference to Yyrkoon, the cousin of Elric of Melnibone and wielder of the sword Mournblade (the brother sword of Stormbringer).
The Bloodstone Emperor betraying the Amethyst Empress even mirrors Yyrkoon betraying Elric, which led to the destruction of the captial city of Melnibone, Imrryr.
Edit: I guess you knew that already. Lol.
i have watched this episode 20 times the three of you r magic.... no wait your topless magic together! love all your collaborations
Eldric Shadowchaser might be the Last Hero of Westerosi legend.
Just got to say again. Your intro is so badass. Kudos
Dany and Jon both half Dayne. Dany being the princess that was promised, Jon being Azor Ahai. The Daynes can be a House of the Dawn age, dragonlords, keeper of Lightbringer.
How are either of them half Dayne.
@@joshstroven8284 in the books canon Jon Snow is the son of Ashara Dayne and Dany is a Targaryens and her great great grandfather is Aegon unlikely is son of a Dayne.
@@sophiawilson8696 So Danaerys isn't "half" Dayne then, not even a quarter. And if you think that Jon isn't the son of Lyanna and Rhaegar you're delusional.
You made my day...thx.
Guys! You can do it work like that with history of our world. Great job :)
Hi you two.... your videos never disappoint. Rock on,!
Dany becomes queen, Euron betrays her and brings the long night, Jon saves the day
Dany = amethyst empress
Euron = bloodstone
Jon = azor ahi
Yeah's not unreasonable speculation by any means :)
There theories that the Blood Stone Emperor and Ahor Ahi are the same person.
You guys are very impressive. The knowledge of the books and the presentation is on point. You convinced me that the ancient people of the dawn came to Westeroes to fight the others. Too many facts for it not to be right. Well done
The bloodstone emperor and the knights king has some interesting parallels. I think the tiger woman the bloodstone emperor married was actually an other.
I love the episodes featuring LML. They're always super long
Heh heh, thanks, and yeah, I've never been known for brevity. What's worse is that we were originally going to do one joint episode, but that material needed up taking two long episodes and part of a Dayne episode to cover.:) And of course now we have opened up a whole new can of worms which invite all kinds of wild speculation which we also didn't have time for... hence the follow up Q&A episode.
That's a lot of work, man. I'm just glad that you guys are so dedicated and really enjoy what you do. Awesome narration btw, really had me captivated.
Thanks so much for saying so! This is definitely really fun material, and obviously its awesome of George to have hidden so much in the back story for us to piece together. :)
As always very interesting. Explains a lot.
Nice discussion and theories guys. I also keep in mind that GRRM has confirmed that the purple eyes of the Daynes does not come from Valyria, so there has to have been a common culture somewhere in the history od Planetos.
When you find a new channel that you like, and go on a daylong marathon and give up on the real world entirely.
welcome aboard, it's a smooth ride but you'll have to provide your own beverages.
I kind of thought that Qarth may play into this more, with the Tourmaline Brotherhood and their association with gem stones, the appearance of the Qartheen people as also being pale, and the red waste surrounding it comparable to also being a part of the empire of the dawn similar to the desert where the Patrimony of Harkoon once ruled.
Oh man, Qarth is something I would have liked to have been able to fit in. There's a lot of cool symbolism and old magic there, and I definitely think they fancy themselves as carrying on the GEotD legacy to some extent. In fact the fake, glorified version of the Undying Dany sees right before she sees the real ones - this glorious kings and queens with gemstones in their armor and whatnot - might represent the Undying's memory of what GEotD people were like. And yes, what is the Tourmaline Brotherhood but a sect founded on the wise teachings of the famous Tourmaline Emperor? LoL, I have speculated it.
The problem is that none of it can be firmly tied to anything - it's super suggestive, but doesn't really lead anywhere, except to say that a little of the GEotD culture may survive in a mutated form at Qarth. The GEotD would surely have passed through the Jade Gates from time to time, so it's eminently reasonable to speculate on some line of cultural transmission there. perhaps we will discuss that in the Q&A... you have any other thoughts about Qarth?
Nah just some basic thoughts remembering it, I haven't read in a while but was trying to remember if there were dragon bones in the dead cities in the other Qaatheen cities. Just the mysteriousness of it, with these ties interweaving seem like it could be another kind of diaspora situation from GEotD. I was also trying to recall the crown they gave Dany and what that was made of. Your right it's kind of hard to make concrete ties (and my time is sadly wanting for any further tie ins), but it seems like the lack of mention in world of ice and fire and the other coincidences may be for some reason, but hard to speculate.
I wish I hadn't discovered yall so late in the game. I feel like I'm stuck playing catch up and there's so much to catch up on!
Welcome aboard :)
ugh...taking a Tiger woman as a wife? Soooooo desperate
Can you blame him? She was an animal in bed.
@@hotduelist lmao stupid! lol
Confirmed the Bloodstone Emperor is a canon Furry
If she is able to turn my children into lawyers and doctors than I would love to marry a tiger woman. It is a plus if she can catch mice and grill them like my ex would.
I know this old but a smart poster text that the tiger woman maybe a female of the children of forest. They have claws and cat eyes. I am so shock I never thought that .
do you think that the north above the wall is connected by land to the east. our maps are wrong because no one has taken the "Columbus" voyage yet? I mention this because of the 5 forts on one side the wall holds back the white walkers. on the other side it's the 5 forts?
maybe the old town fused black rock proves they circumnavigate the globe. it makes more sense they sailed from Ashai went east directly to old town.
Great parallel that of the Great Empire also practicing slavery. The God-on-Earth being carried in a palanquin by his hundred wives always struck me as some kind of slavery or some kind of servitude akin to salt wives.
interesting video, good work.
WOW, you really researched the s%&/! out of this episode! I am impressed. This might be my favourite episode ever (so far my fav was WWW series).
Hopping onto Q&A part!
This is awesome thank you 👏🏽
Guys I'm a big fan of your channel since of last year. And since that day I've been tryna find those beautiful Planetos maps that you guys got but still have no idea where they are from. I'd reallly love to know where I could get them.
On the different note another great video guys, keep it up
this is great
These ASOIAF theory videos are easily my favorite online vice
Excellent👏👏👏
just started watching a few days ago and I'm really loving it. Although this is only the second video I've seen, I'm completely hooked and will be making my way though all of them. I haven't read any of the TWOW excerpts as I'm waiting for the book to be published in it's entirety, but this is seriously satisfying my Ice and Fire cravings.
Around 2:35:00 you mentioned that there were no Others in the east, but perhaps they simply didn't refer to them as such. The Lion of Night and his demons sound awfully similar to the Others and the wights. We know the Long Night occurred in Essos and Westeros although we don't know for sure it they began and/or ended simultaneously. I also see parallels between the construction of the Five Forts to keep the Lion of Night and his demons out of the Great Empire of the Dawn and the The Wall which keeps the Others and the wights out of Westeros. However a big difference here is that Five Forts are said to have been constructed by the Pearl Emperor and he reigned before the Long Night while The Wall was constructed by Bran the Builder after the Long Night ended. I account for this difference by acknowledging that the Lion of the Night is known in the mythology and history of the Great Empire of the Dawn and their God-Emperor so perhaps they simply had the knowledge of the Lion of Night and thus knew to defend themselves against him/it. The Westerosi on the other hand didn't know about these dark evil forces (assuming they're one in the same)until the Long Night and then built the wall after they lived through it.
The gears are turning while I write this so I apologize for the long winded nature, but I guess I'm curious about the timetable of the Long Night and if the Lion of Night and the Others are one in the same. If they're not the same they certainly have to be related (perhaps two aligned dark empires on the other side of the world trying to execute one of the largest flanks in military history). Also if the Last Hero and Azor Ahai are the same person then did the Long Night last much longer in Westeros than Essos as Azor Ahai had to make the journey to the other side of the world.
Anyways just wanted to get that off my chest. I absolutely love your videos and look forward to watching more.
did a wee little bit of research. how about:
the onyx emperor = proto stark
the amethyst emperess = proto targ
the jade emperor = proto lannister
if the emperors weren't emperors but ruling families, they might as well have relatives in westeros, maybe first colonies founded by explorers that traveled and found fertile land...would explain why anyone in essos even cared about the white walkers coming to westeros, i think...argh, can't wait for that q&a!!!
thx again for the great videos! you're my new television ;-)
Maybe the lands around Asshai were once fertile (comparable to the Vale), but the introduction of Ghost Grass from Sothoryos(?) and it overtook their crop fields as an invasive species, ruining the city's ability to feed itself. So at that point, Asshai would be dependent on it's imperial holding for imports. When the "barbarians" & beast began pushing on the fringes of the empire, Asshai starves. As for the nearby Stygai, perhaps the sorcerers of Asshai unleashed their magics to prevent the invasions of their lands and it got out of control, twisting the city. That the Dothraki have fear of the Ashai'i, it may indicate they were on of the invading forces (presumably with the Jogos Nhai) that pushed into the Shadow Lands, only to be attack by sorcery.
John Jackson I'm a firm believer in the ghost grass being toxic and an invasive species of plant but it's from sothorys or is that another theory?
What do you make of the fact that the description of the ghost grass and the sword Dawn are pretty much an exact match? That's the thing that always tickled my curiosity about Ghost Grass.
How do you feel about gjost grass being snow, and based on a Dorthraki misunderstanding ...
still my favorite episodes, starting with House Dayne...
Glad you guys are back! It feels like there hasn't been much ASoIaF talk lately.
Seriously, there's been a dry spell for months now!! It must be getting difficult for the asoiaf content producers to find topics that haven't already been covered to death. Kudos to History of Westeros for putting together a fucking THREE HOUR video on a topic I hardly knew anything about.
Dear god we need twow. Just imagine all the sweet, sweet content we'll have.
love the videos. best channel.
licifermeanslightbringer changed the way i view the legends and myth on asoiaf.
i can listen to you guys for hours.
i am personally running withba theory that terros/planetos is the same world that the conan saga takes place it. (albeit during a future timeline)
and i believe i have geographical evidence to support this claim.
the isle of Leng.
i propose that in ancient times it was the plateau of Leng during the age of Conan(azor ahai?)
it is now the isle of Leng due to flooding caused by any number of possible sources. the breaking of the arm of Dorne seems like a likely candidate for massive amounts of water displacement. As well as the flooding of the neck. Or possibly even the melting of large ice sheets during the thawing process that inevitably followed the long night.
the world of planetos has too many direct location references to the conan saga to ignore.
the isle of Leng is just one that I've been able to piece a direct relation to.
My thinking is that Azor Ahai's prophecy is the retelling of a spell casted to bring forth the end, resulting in the waking of stone dragons (volcanos). Nissa Nissa represents the romanticization of a human sacrifice and the Red Sword emphasizes the bloody deed. Euron seems to think as much........I'm also interested in the Great Empire and this is where my thoughts tend to drift all over the place: The names of the Great Emperors reference a type of mineral or gemstone. And the last emperor worshipped a mysterious black stone, which seemed to have magical properties. With this in mind I recall when Tyrion pondered why the dragonlords didn't look West where the wealth was...and I ask why they were so hell bent on mining...what were they looking for? Ahhhhhhhh
Fuck yeah, I've been waiting for this one. Time to dig in at work =)
I heard - ancient squirrels at first - when you guys said scrolls. It made me happy
Hey maybe you should divide the video into chapters and put timestamp links in the description? That way it'd be more organized and easier to watch/digest. Just a suggestion of course, love your videos!
I tend to agree. We release things as podcast and video, and long podcasts work better than long videos. This one was too long for video form, even I would agree with that :)
I've been pondering how to handle this going forward, and I think by the time TWOW comes out, we will have made some adjustments in how we release things. We won't cut back on total content, but releasing it in smaller chunks is preferable for UA-cam.
Thanks for the feedback, it's very helpful. :)