When Vecna broke the laws of Planescape | D&D Lore
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2020
- In this video I finish my Vecna Trilogy of Videos with "Die Vecna, Die!" the 2000 adventure featuring Vecna as a full on deity! You'll travel the multiverse in this exciting adventure to stop Vecna from becoming the only deity there is.
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References:
Vecna Deep Dive - dumpstatadventures.com/blog/d...
Vecna Lives! - www.drivethrurpg.com/product/...
Vecna Reborn - www.drivethrurpg.com/product/...
Die Vecna Die! - www.drivethrurpg.com/product/...
Domains of Dread - www.drivethrurpg.com/product/...
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#dnd #vecna #jorphdan - Розваги
Sorry, I’m already dead.
omae wa mou shindeiru
@@xk445g NANI?!?!
Hol up
@@xk445g When you accidentally makes an anime reference:
Not your legacy. You are beyond ash and dust as you are. As an epic bad guy, clones and super-powered mutations of you will forever be spawned from your legacy. In multiverse 2743 standard deviation 4, an over-god is making multiple alternative versions of you compete with each other for the lordship of their narrative while all losers and their reality are obliterated.
"How the hell did Vecna get out of the Domains of Dread?"
"The Plot required it"
CORRECT! :P
Destroying Ravenloft was a public service and using it to punch his way into Sigil was pretty rad. Hail Vecna.
@@bishopsancho He didn't destroy Ravenloft, Ravenloft is fine.
He just left.
Also, won't lie, "Break into Sigil" was a really shitty plan. No one really knows quite how strong the Lady of Pain is, there was a fair chance she would have just obliterated him the second he stepped into Sigil, greater deity powers and all.
To be honest. The whole adventure was one great excuse to explain the shifts in the Multiverse and OOC changes in rules (for 3rd edition).
@@firetarrasque4667 She did destroy Aoskar. And for what it's been hinted, he was an Intermediate or Greater Power.
BUT, Vecna has always been treated as an exception. Perhaps the "Serpent" whispered some secrets that allowed him to resist the Lady of Pain.
Everyone fears the Lady of Pain, and rightly so. But to have her blessing? That's a true treasure.
Or a true nightmare.
@@dreammirrorbrony1240 How so?
She refuses all worship.
@@praywithpio6028 But you don't get her blessing here by worshipping her, but by saving her city from Vecna.
@@javierpatag3609 the lady’s shadow looms over you
If I was a Domain of Dread, I would make an evil bad guy believe his plot was working perfectly, only to have him wake up the next day and discover it was all just another trick.
Groundhog Day was a Domain of Dread. Whoa.
They did that with one of the Lords - he built a machine that could escape Ravenloft, and it even worked - for anyone EXCEPT him.
Ah yes. Good old Ravenloft, the Bugs Bunny of campaign settings. They were trolling villains before trolling was even a thing.
He would figure it out. It's Vecna, after all.
@@abacate4492 No he wouldn't, it's the Dark Powers.
Played Vecna Lives in 1993 and Die Vecna Die in 2017 with the same character but another party. It was cool to play again with this pc. He was like "ive seen this before. Its happening again!" The final battle was really tough. Almost died, again! My palladin was really saying "Die beast, Die once and for all!"
My head cannon is that the Vecna in critical role is one of many seeds that planted throughout the multiverse while he was tapping in to Sigil’s fulcrum. Imagine a thousand identical arch liches stockpiling secrets and power for thousands of lifetimes, ascending too become dark gods, and finally becoming one great evil overpower
If you care about the party in Campaign 1 then this is a terrible headcanon, since it would invariably mean they ultimately fail to stop his ascension despite their best efforts and get killed. It would also make Vecna by default not merely the best mage in the D&D multiverse, but an entity already inherently beyond mortality. Vecna as a villain only works because he can be overcome; If you take that away he becomes no more interesting than the rest of the unconquerable infinite sources of evil in the D&D multiverse. Vecna works because him and the good-aligned parties that rise against him are (combined) the one crazy x-factor that decides who wins the multiverse. If Vecna wins, good loses it's last way to tip the scales and fails permanently. If the parties win, good still has a lot of ground to regain to make a happy ending but hope survives the current era of the story of D&D.
@@supersmily5811 But Vecna did ascend in Critical Role. What Vox Machina did is trap him beyond the divine gate with all the other gods, so he couldn't dominate Exandria.
So Matt didn't mess up sigil with sigil
Yep.
In my head canon, nothing that was published after 2000, and certainly nothing from Critical Role... ever happened.
Don't take me wrong. I love Critical Role. But making a home campaign canon for everyone, only because the players and DM are famous and have more money... it's not for me.
Secondly, all metaplot after the grand era of campaign settings (the 90s) has been handled horribly (let's not forget the Spellplague in Toril). Also, plundering the World of Greyhawk for ideas and characters, and porting them to other worlds... it's a cheap move. Vecna, Iggwilv and Mordenkainen are from Greyhawk. Not Exandria, not Toril, not anywhere else.
I like to imagine Draconic as a cuneiform style language, as it looks like something a dragon could make with their claws.
Kinda like how it's written in the Elder Scrolls?
Adventures: YOU HAVE TO STOP VECNA!
Lady of Pain: Hm.... nah.
Adventures: WHY??
LOP: Because if he was REALLY THAT big of an issue, I wouldn't be sending you people.
The module gives a reason.
Let's not forget the most powerful artifact of them all: the Head of Vecna. Same concept with the other Vecna artifacts, in that the specified body part must be severed to be replaced. When a living humanoid attunes to this artifact, the head replaces their head and begins to function. Their INT is set to 20 (unless higher). they can also cast a number of spells from the 1st to 5th level School of Necromancy spell list, equal to their INT mod plus their half spellcaster levels (if any, rounded down) without using a spell slot. Treat your spellcasting modifier as INT plus half of your PROF modifier. This feature regains up to 1d10+5 uses at midnight. Lastly, any undead creature
that includes you as a target for an attack or subject you to a saving throw must make a WIS saving throw equal to 8 plus your proficiency bonus & your INT mod, or become stunned until the end of their next turn.
(If people don't get this artifact, don't worry: it's a joke, a trap for power-hungry players. The italics is that you need to be *alive* and a *humanoid* when you attach the head... cutting off your head usually makes you un-alive. The abilities are good, but there are better options for all except the last effect.)
Just gotta have two heads.
So..... has Vecna just used everyone, inclusing the PC's, the Lady of Pain, etc, to "get killed" inside Sigil so his essence could be pulled somewhere into the Astral Plane, and then get the adequate freedom and his Deity powers to finally do deity stuff?
I mean... okay, he could try and break the balance of the Universe, but plotwise would be such a jump...
It makes more sense that, from his prision in the realms of dread, he could not open no portal anywhere EXCEPT Sigil. Such portal could ONLY be opened with deity powers... but no deity can enter Sigil... So that would be a really good prision against any silly mortal who tries to become a god.
But then, Vecna is a smart dude and decided to do the only possible method to become a deity and become free, which included all the Sigil shenanigans, both for getting in as semi-deity and getting out by being "defeated", this last part only possible because deities can't be killed anywhere except specific places.
At least, in my head, it makes Vecna someone who sort of outsmarted the whole multiverse, which would prove his "worth" of becoming a god.
Gotta use that in a nerdy tale someday
Seems like a plan with backups
Get into Sigil and become a god, if the PCs/Lady of Pain kill him then it's an absolute win as he's set free from her realm and can be the greater deity he wanted to be all along, if he actually defeated her and the PCs though "oh well I guess the multiverse is mine now"
The moment he got into the city and ascended he was sure that he got himself into a win/win situation
I can’t believe Vecna hoodwinked the Lady of Pain! Definitely going to put an Easter egg of this in my planescape campaign. Especially with how fascinated one of my players irl is fascinated by vecna
One of the most epic quest I ever had the pleasure to DMed. Quick note, there were several body parts of Vecna lying around, although none as powerful as the eye or hand, and the Pc had to ``put them`` on in order to access the final dungeons. So my group had the feet of Vecna, the finger of Vecna, the heart, the skin patch, the nail, ect. Really fun times.
Nice!
The gall bladder of Vecna
The #### 8f Veccna
No left and right buttcheeks of Vecna?
Here I was thinking I'd be funny making a Simpsons reference...
lol
I attempted one.
All good! Twitter got to me first with all the Simpsons references ;)
Do it now before the Simpsons do it. They will do it eventually. The Simpsons make every reference eventually. Be the first to refer to something before they do, especially if you are referring to them as a meta-implosion on that. If I lost you, just pretend I did not speak. ;)
The Serpent could be a few different beings. Dendar, Zehir, Asmodeus, etc. I wonder which being it actually was.
I'm betting Asmodeus/Ahriman.
Ah...beat me to it I see...especially since watched MrRhexx video on the serpent. If Vecna had it his way Armageddon could start
@@Grybster Exactly. Saw the same video.
@@Grybster I doubt it. the MrRhexx video covered lore that was retconned (and even when it was canon was still likely a lie since every other piece of lore contradicts it) by the time Die Vecna Die was brought out. as well the Serpent that gave vecna his stuff is stated to rival the lady of pain something no version of Asmodeus can come close to since even his most powerful version fears her.
2nd edition A Guide to Hell makes it clear that it is Asmodeus.
Venca try to take over the multiverse and is starting with sigil
The lady of pain:.......
Venca now has billions of curses on him
I eat billions curses before breakfast.
@@vecna2101 criiiiinnnggeeee
This adventure sound so fun to play.
This is awesome, and I love how it spans Greyhawk, Ravenloft, and Planescape. I would like to ask though, because everyone's always going on about Gygax's home setting, do you know anything about Dave Arneson's Blackmoor? I always wondered why no one really talks about it, but I've never been able to get my hands on any books or info.
There are the DA series of modules in 1st ed Expet D&D set in Blackmoor. It is set in the same campaign setting as Mystara (The Known World). They are: DA 1 Adventures in Blackmoor, DA 2 Temple of the Frog, DA 3 City of the Gods, and D4 The Duchy of Ten. They are relatively (very high using 5th ed standards) high level adventures written for 10th to 14th level characters. You can pick them up online at DriveThru RPG. The Egg of Coot is a real hoot.
@@beatleblev thanks, I'll look into those. I'm just really curious about anything Arneson created because it honestly sounds like his D&D is a lot closer to how I (and many modern players) play the game than Gygax with his meat grinder dungeons.
Did arkhan the cruel steal the hand and now its actual dnd lore..?
It's canon yeah, Arkhan the Cruel is found in Descent into Avernus and he currently has the hand.
Yep. He's in Avernus trying to use the Hand of Vecna to free Tiamat. He hasn't made much progress though and the hand is slowly rotting away half of his body which can only be staved off temporarily by killing and eating a good aligned creature.
@@sergersgerhersh6594 "Free Tiamat with my magic hand" is a really shitty plan
@@firetarrasque4667 it's not any 'magic hand'. It's VECNA'S HAND
That hand stealer....
I do think that one thing to note about ease of destruction of the hand/eye in 5ed, is the equal ease of prevention. Yes, you need only slay a person attuned to both items with the Sword of Kas. BUT, the Sword of Kas is destroyed by the owner of the hand/eye wishing it from existence. One of those is alot easier to achieve than the other.
Which still makes it seemingly simple to destroy the hand and eye. Find all the them and the sword and someone takes one for the team and is killed. Such self sacrifice is what legendary takes of are made of and plenty of good heroes would accept that fate.
Of course "simple" and "find them all" don't really belong together :)
Absolutely. But then, if you have a DM willing to include the Hand and Eye of Vecna in a campaign, and NOT have them end up on the opposition side, I want to play in your game. Because you're on the easy setting. 🤣 I say that as someone who is in two separate games, one as a player, the other as DM. 😂😂😂
@@samholden5758 yeah, because it's pretty damn simple to gatter the three :D
@@lordofdarkness3774 We aren't talking about the PCs or a campaign though. We are talking about the world lore and thousands of years of heroic deeds by the "forces of good". In all that time none of them managed? In the very module this video is about the Hand, the Eye, and the Sword all end up in the same room :) Of course that wasn't a method of destruction in the days of this module anyway...
YES! Couldn't wait for this!
I love all your video edits, totally appreciate your sense of humor and makes me want to play in one of your campaigns. Keep up the great work, thanks!
Please make similar videos about old adventures! Really interesting to listen about the old lore.
Thanks to your videos, I know a LOT more about the newest campaign. I can’t wait to see what else you might have in store!
*☼ well, good on him! keeps coming back. overcomes betrayal. put in the work to become a master spellcaster. leave him alone!*
At 6:31 all of my previous opinions about Vecna morphed into, "I could definitely fix him."
I've been absolutely ecstatic to watch this trilogy, as I knew nothing of Vecna before critrole but just...absolutely lap it up.
Excited for my die Vecna die t-shirt too. MERCH STORE!!!!
wooo :D
I hate the idea that the Lady of Pain needs help to do anything. It's also my problem with the faction war module. Vecna should also have no followers in Sigil assisting him as she would turn them all inside out and explode. But serialized storytelling loves ignoring established lore "for the plot."
a lot of youtubers put links to previous installments of a series Hut u r the 1st I've seen to preemptively plan to put the following installments linked in ur vids. mad respect for that
Very much enjoyed these vids... your Vecna trilogy was fantastic! Well done!
Thank you very much! :D
Really loving this series, wish it continues!
What if “The serpent” is Kyuss? I thought it could be him instead of Orcus because he is incredibly old and used similar tablets to ascend to “God Hood”(An elder evil but not a real god) and Kyuss probably knows how to read and write Cuneiform script
Interesting interpretation but we already know who the serpent really is
@@gamercore5216 Mok'Slyk, one of the Brethren.
But actually Vecna had done something in Sigil. There is a quote on wiki from an adventure where Lady Pain says that Vecna did something dreadful and terrible and even she doesn't know what he did. Vecna's move somehow affected the whole universe. Also that event creates some space for him even this days if Wizards want to pull Vecna from old box
When I am down and depressed, I listen to one of these and feel better straight away. Tell me more stories pleassseeee =) Thank you!
I’m surprised Jergal hasn’t decided to kick Vecna’s ass.
Siiiick I was looking for Die Vecna Die videos yesterday and couldn't find anything
Actiually you also need the Phallus of Vecna too. Arkhan the Cruel, a Dragonborn Paladin of Tiamat is searching for the Phallus, and must cut off a certain part of his own body to afix the permanent Bone structure, granting the possesser a permanent Boner, which grants many special powers. The posesser attracts female Undead and Succubus, Vampires, and all manner of similar creatures where they worship the possessor carnally, and worshipful devotion. T
Awesome stuff! Our campaign features Vecna as he's tempted a powerful LeShae (who's now a Worm that Walks); I was deciding what the lore supported, and thus my research's brought me here! Thanks for the info, sir!
Possibly the last Vecna video. Me in 2024: "Oh really?"
Awesome series!
Loving this stuff man
thanks :D
The Serpent... could that be a reference to the 2 cosmic serpents mayhaps?
More specifically, Ahriman? The dark serpent believed to exist at the bottom of the infernal plane?
the way you pronounce Sigil, makes me giggle.
You’d think it’d be pronounced “Si-jil”, but Jorphan is pronouncing it correctly. “Sig-gull” is the canon pronunciation - although it makes me cringe too.
Yep!! 😅
Jeff Francis that's good to know. It was driving me crazy, but if it's canon then it's canon. And now I'll know how to pronounce it if I ever need to.
What is the source for that canonicity, out of curiousity?
God damn that adventure sounds awesome.
Congrats on the 2022 thumbnail. Looks rad.
Iuz is dead?! Thats surprising and I never actually knew that. Guess thats why Greyhawk was no longer the default campaign for the editions past 3.5? Now that I think about it, Vecna was part of the pantheon listed but not Iuz during those editions so... Guess that answers a long burning question.
The icp reference was awesome
I love that you pronounce Sigil correctly. So many mistakes how to say the city’s name.
If thats the correct way to say it I never want to say it correctly lol. It sounds so much worse that way.
Thank you for being awesome Jorphdan!
I wonder if Vecna considered seating himself on the throne of Yggdrasil? I think that would accomplish the same thing, no?
Man I've never seen so much Plot being in favour of a villain before .
👏 wow.
Vexing Vecna!
Thank you.
I would LOVE a full video or series on Iuz...
this trilogy on vecna was super interesting! i really enjoy all your lore videos, jorphdan. any chance there's a morndinsamman video in the future?
Mordenkainen?
@@Jorphdan oh, no, they're the dwarven pantheon. i saw you did a video on the drow pantheon too.
Ah ok! Yes I have dwarven pantheon in my to-do list. The drow had way more information available. I'll have to see what TSR published back in the day
@@Jorphdan awesome! i'm looking forward to it. :D
He basically pulled a ship in a bottle trick. He ascended inside the city of doors.
Everyone, wouldn't you love a Greyhawk God series!!! I struggle to find info on it and Jorphdan could do such a great job!!!!!!
The best source is the World of Greyhawk Campaign Setting for AD&D or the 3rd ed Living Greyhawk Gazetteer. They were the core pantheon for 3ed ed D&D and the major Greyhawk deities are in the 3rd ed Players Handbook.
This is a great idea.
“Nobody who speaks primordial could be an evil man!”
@1:52 so I thought the cuneiform was fun, than you pulled out the Voinich Manuscript. You diabolical fiend.
muwahahaha!
I feel like if I were running this I would have the players explore Ravenloft instead of a pit. I can imagine the party making allies with some mysterious dark powers to escape and then reach Vecna.
Aye, I’m still subbed and can see the vid!
7:07 Sigil!
Those cuneiform tablets give me an idea: sine MY story for Vecna requires a power-siphon from 2 other deities, they could fall into their hands (one each) and bind them in their respective realms, thus cutting them off from their respective followers' prayers and ensuring they remain trapped; I'm using Lolth and Tiamat if you're wondering.
I am a simple person, I see a Jorphdan(ph silent) video, I click.... wait...I'm having a dejavù
@Jorphdan
That human vecna PIC at 0:09 where did you get it?
It's hilarious how JK Rowling called a phylactery a horcrux. I mean... Wouldn't it have made her story more compelling? To make it relatable?
Cool
"Vecna is nothing if tenacious.." the expression is "if _not_ tenacious."
oops!
@@Jorphdan It's cool.
Everyone makes mistakes; some people even think that "ph" can be silent, Jorf-dan. XD
7:29 And the local inhabitants are the most arrogant pricks you'll ever meet if they find out you're a native of the prime material plane.
I'm working on a story at the moment for my games as to how Vecna has returned as an archlich. Cliff notes version is that Deity Vecna has found himself to be trapped yet again, this time by the constraints of divinity (with the Lex Luthor line 'do you know how much power I would have to give up to be president' in mind), and so traveled back in time to pluck his past self out of his timeline so that he will have a second chance to get things right this time. However, his younger self, so disgusted by his future self's failure, kills Deity Vecna and hides in the shadows until the point in time his future self left from comes to pass. Now he's plotting to try what he once attempted on Sigil again, but no mistakes this time, and as practice what better place to work his dark magic than the Radiant Citadel
Lore on the serpent plz
I believe this is why 5th edition Ravenloft is basically like starting over. After Vecna shattered his prison and left the true Dark Powers captured vestiges to draw power from and reformed the Domains of Dread starting with Strahd. Time has no meaning for the Dark Powers.
Can we have some more deep thoughts with Jorphdan.
The Pee is Silent
So this is how Vecna reached apotheosis.
This was a WoTC thing to close out the TSR multivariate before they switched it all up with 3e. There was a lot of lore breaking stuff that pissed off a lot of Planescape fans. For the most part, rans don't consider Die Vecna Die to be canon.
I mean, if Vecna has a plan, I say stick to it.
What happens if Venca finds his old eye and hand? Same power level? Upgrades his abilities?
I wonder if the serpent is Asmodeus or Ahriman.
If I may ask, with threathening the multiverse, are all crystal spheres like Realmspace and Oerthspace in peril as well?
I mean, they are on the prime material plane which is part of the multiverse, so yes.
All we really need is the head of vecna
the Vecna, *THE*
Raistlin did it first
Vecna was before everyone else, it was before Forgotten Realms
@@sebbonxxsebbon6824 Vecna is older yes but Raistlin plans hit the table sooner then Vecna.
Shush bih
Interested in doing Vecna Lives from 2e yet?
Ah yes, means “the Vecna the”
And now Vecna has recently appeared in two realms: Exandria and Toril.
Not gonna count Earth tho.
In dutch it's That Vecna, that!
most powerful wizard of all time.....hmm. Zagyg might object to that.
Im assuming from the lady of pains indifference to Vecna is beacuse of a deal or agreement
More vecna
1:48 what movie is that temple shot from? ty
Alien vs Predator lol
i've played planescape torment i know sigil :P
Good choice of video game :)
Vecna reminds me of Nagash of warhammer.
both very similar, but Nagash is still a greater deity
It's a good day to live in the future
So the point of moving to Sigil is really to try to pull off a destruction-of-balance-in-the-multiverse and become the Lord of it all, or is it simply that Sigil is the only place he could go to from the Realms of Dread, but then couldn't get out? And is being killed by the heroes the only way to get out of there?
All good questions. I think the adventure might lead you to believe he is stuck there, but Vecna wants to be there to disrupt the great wheel and become the only deity in the multiverse. The adventure stats that if the Lady of Pain were to full on attack she would win, but the damage dune to the multiverse would be terrible.
So the players beat up Vecna enough that the Lady of Pain's influence is enough to cast Vecna out of Sigil forever.
@@Jorphdan Let not forget that, even if the Lady did cast Vecna out, the damage he`s done to the crux was so that it brought changes to the mutliverses. The Lady did attempts to repair the damage by speaking the words, in language primeval, Creation Once Spoken. But she only manage to solidify her portals and not correct the changes brought upon the world. When your read between the line, Die Vecna Die, was the last official publish quest of the 2nd edition and therefore, these event were to explain the change into the D20 system.
@@fredericklapointe2524 turns out vecna's real apotheosis was creating 3e to become an even more overpowered wizard.
@@EvelynNdenial argh, wizards are underpowered in DD w respect to the Mystara box settings where they got to 36 level and 9 spells per level
The vecnha, the
My partys paladin had the eye, hand and sword.. the DM switched it so we had to kill him to stop Vecna as Vecna used the hand and eye to posses the pally..
What can change the nature of a Vecna?
Hot take they 1000% should have made a 5e Vecna adventure by now especially given tomb of horrors got a massive tribute with ToA and was in TFTYP. We literally don't know where he is after this, they could throw him in literally anywhere. Hell, if they hadn't technically adapted Elemental Evil I'd say he could be an interesting twist on a return to that.
Honestly, I just want to punch the most famous Lich in DND in the face and have that be assumed canon.
you know, a crazy ideia I had was what if the serpent is vecna from a time line he succeeded
like a snake biting its own tail.. Vecan exists outside of time. Fulfilling his own existence in an endless loop...
my dm wrote a completely different backstory for vecna, a tragic one my character empathized with. i accidentally speedran the campaign because vecna fell in love with my character who gradually changed him into something resembling a decent person.
he and my character acended to full godhood together and eventually married, together for all eternity
and yes before you ask my character was a bard, but only a little bit. most of their levels were in warlock
...wow u need help
@@Dustpuma1 jealous that you dont have a lich husband i see :3c
This was great!
Have you covered my other favorite D&D multiversal villain, Asmodeus?
ua-cam.com/video/2QqQmysjQ-c/v-deo.html