Vaush Forgets Debate Prep Again, Kicks Journalist And Calls Him A Fascist
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- Last night on Destiny Destiny finds out Vaush is debating journalist Michael Tracey except he didn't do prep again...
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Destiny Debates A Famous Journalist On The Ukraine War ►ua-cam.com/video/S6x8SKpqgck/v-deo.html
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it's the illusion of knowledge" Stephen Hawking describing his debate with Vaush.
lol imagine that debate - Vaush debating Hawking on Physics with no research, making an ass out himself, then acting like he won afterwards
😂😂
@@ce1474 The average Vaush fan would unironically believe that Vaush won that debate.
i love desiny channel comment sections, and these kinds of comments are why lmao
@@ce1474 "Stephen, stephen, stephen... Are you done typing yet?"
Vaush reminds me of every kid in high school that claimed to be "above average intelligence but I just don't study"
Nah vaush acknowledges he's lazy and constantly faces the issue that he's very undereducated/underread on a lot of topics. I think you're just projecting because he uses some big words every now and then.
That's actually a thing: Above average kids do come by for a good chunk by virtue of their intelligence but later as concepts become more and more complex they fall behind because they never had to learn to learn.
But I doubt Vaush belongs to this group. He's just spouting talking-points that are generally accepted by his target-group...
@@Potatotenkopf Whose fault is that in the information age
@@Metaphix What is that?
@@Metaphix did you even read what the person wrote?
Evil Vaush says: "I read your article ahead of time."
Evil Vaush unironically HAS read all literature
"Evil" requires a level of effort that I don't believe Vaush is capable of.
Evil Vaush: can read
Evil Vaush be like: "I like girls my own age"
Evil Destiny: has no VDS
Michael, or Miguel as he's known in Mexico
-El Chavalito Irlandés
I think you mean Mijael
@@ThomasWarhammer miquel
+2
Agwa
From the teaser
16:49 Vaush shouldve read Michael's article on Iceland
22:45 is nuclear war the worst thing that could happen?
30:39 Dylan's ban from Hasancord
hero
patrick Berry 2024
My brother in Christ, you are a Saint among Men.
God Bless this man
Destiny's point about nuclear war not being worse than Russia bullying/conquering its neighbors is remarkably wrong. You realize that IN REALITY the USSR existed for decades, right? It was basically a SUPER Russia, with all those European territories and Soviet sphere allies. So the supposedly "worse than nuclear war" outcome ALREADY EXISTED in reality, for decades. It was very obviously NOT worse than nuclear war.
A game to die for:
Drink a shot every time Vaush says Michael.
I'd be dead already
Plz help
17 minutes in….. I’m so drunk
@@goabparty9574 sleep my new friend xx
You mean "Die from" lmao
I’ve met a lot of people like Vaush. They talk with a smugness so strong that it overrides their ignorance. You can’t tell them anything because they already have all the answers. They live on a mental pedestal while never doing anything that could warrant this kind of self pride.
We have a massive infestation of manchildren running around, lack of fathers and the massive drop of testosterone seem to be part of the cause.
Well said
Well you see its because he's outpaced us intellectually.
I don't know that the smugness overrides their ignorance so much as it is an expression of it, unless what you're trying to say is that the smugness serves as some sort of compensation or tactic that serves as a shield in these fucking agonizing exchanges Vaush peddles in.
I used to be like this, and then I realized that in the long-run you look way smarter if you just admit when you don't know something than if you pretend that you know everything. People will value your opinion wayyy more.
I want a "Michael, Michael" supercut
A far worse version of Louie, Louie.
You can probably guess why this debate was a nightmare for me to listen to.
MICHAEL. MICHAEL, MICHAEL
Vaush just needs a tall glass of aqua
But WHAT is Agua?
What is a glass?
What is a tall?
What is need?
What is that?
Saying “Michael” was definitely a belittling debate tactic on Vaush’s part.
he was just trying to stop him from gish galloping
@@astralgod6448 sneed
"destiny reacts to vaush doing a debate he didn't prepare for" Is my favorite type of destiny content
Because he cant leave vaush behind?
@@ineedapharmists No because it's funny when vaush starts insulting people & then destiny goes, "oooooooohhh". His reactions to "epic vauooosh moments" are entertaining. Also I think him commenting on vaushs stances is a lot better than hiding in your community & pretending they don't exist so you don't have to address any criticisms made by anyone but sure you can go with the yawn "dEsTiNyS oBsEsSeD" route. Very original Christopher
@@frankmarano1118 *Critiques someone who has this thing over and over again*
HoW OriGiNaL
Grow up dude
@@ineedapharmists it's not that deep dude, you shouldn't be so obsessed with streamers, go out and find real life friends. I literally just think it's funny
@@ineedapharmists Vaush is located permanently behind, that is his kingdom; nobody is disputing that crown. Destiny could not rescue him even if he wanted
I sometimes think Vaush does this just to annoy people to death. When he knows he DOESNT KNOW something, he takes the conversation as far away from the topic as possible.
- Whether it be the definition of words, long philosophical questions, or... well... what we see here.
This is how Vaush “wins” debates ua-cam.com/video/FDi4Y7ecrBo/v-deo.html
When has he done this in this debate?
@@Khalkara the entire conversation is done in bad faith. He refuses to engage in anything Michael says, showcased by the fact that he keeps repeating the name Michael over and over again in order to silence him from speaking about something he doesn't know about.
@@humpyloaddart He kept saying his name to try to make him stop going off-topic with incoherent rants.
Cite a single timestamp where Vaush refuses to engage with Tracey, where Tracey is actually sticking to the topic?
Go on, prove you're not full of sh*t.
That's cool and all, but what do you think Hitler had for lunch in 1883?
Vaush is the teenager who discovered atheism and all of a sudden starts wearing fedoras.
I actually snort-laughed my coffee 🤣🤣🤣
fedoras are awesome, if you work them. if you don't you look like the biggest tool.
@@Choryrth Fedora’s aren’t awesome lol you have to be a hot person to wear them. If you’re not, then you look like a fucking idiot with a fedora. If you’re hot, you look like a hot fucking idiot, but you’re hot, so it’s okay.
@@JoeMama-wz5rw that's not how clothing works mate.
@@Choryrth isn’t that exactly how clothing works? Explain it to me if you feel like I’m wrong so I can see where you’re coming from.
this video actually triggered tf out of me, I was half sleep coming out of a nap and I kept hearing my name being spammed incessantly LMAO woke me up very agitated and confused
MICHAEL
@@zarganon9594 please make it stop
love Destiny but he needs to stop letting spite blind him. He agreed with Vaush's entire point but just wanted to screech "Michael" instead of actually engaging with the content
Eh it’s funny
How can Vaush be so unlikeable? I would never want to have disagreements with these kind of people, I would end up in jail otherwise.
Great Food Eating by Steven, love it
I sure wish I could keep getting paid on my lunchbreak
Cry more wagecuck
Fucker needs to talk more, not cool to watch someone else’s video for like 3 minutes straight with no comment other then chewing into the mic
True. Always find it funny when he talks about how much he works when all he does on stream is just whatever he wants.
This. He doesnt even react to the shit hes watching the first 20 minutes. Must be a great way to "create content"...just have other peoples stuff run in the background while you game, and then maaaybe say 3-4 sentences every 10-15 minutes. Lazy and annoying.
Technically he’s working through lunch
god damn vaush fell off hard
Vaush debate character:
- He talks
- The other party responds
- 3 seconds in: MICHAEEEL, MICHAEEEEEL, I won't let you talk, MICHAEEEEEL, monologue, so respond
- The other party, again, tries to respond with a sentence that is not yes or no
- MICHAEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEL
Basically it's Vaush talking 95% of the time, might as well not invite any guest, wouldn't make a difference.
Well you see, if he ever lets his opponent say more than 3 words it might wander off the very very very short path of things vaush knows.
it was so funny when michael said "can you stop interrupting me saying michael over and over again?"
and vaush responds "I interrupt you?!?!?! haha whatever you say"
The “yes or no question” thing is unbearable to watch. “Michael, I’m not going to accept your answer unless it plays directly into the trap I’m setting for you”
@@aran998 if you think answering a yes or no question is a trap then that says alot about you.
@@kap1618 In this case it’s a way to strip all nuance and thought from an argument to make the argument seem absurd. Here’s an example:
Causing others harm is wrong, yes or no?
Oh you answered yes? So it is never ok to defend yourself from violence because it would cause someone harm? So you are saying we should just let rapists roam free, because putting them in jail would be harmful to them?
This the type of argument that Vaush is trying to set up.
Jesus, the comments section is just reeing vaush hate. I never thought I'd see the day where I'd see this community implicitly defend a shameless grifter like Tracey, even if it was to spite someone like Vaush. The spite isn't a meme anymore, it's just unironic brain poison.
It's impressive that the dumbest thing said in this whole thing is,
Nuclear war with Russia isn't the worst outcome
I'll hand it to Vaush. He's very skilled in sophistry and persuasive arguments, playing to his own chat, of course. When he can't control the flow of argumentation, he either declares victory and asks to move on, or hints that his interlocutor is in "bad faith" or doesn't understand the material as well as he himself does and asks to move on. It's actually brilliant. He could literally debate a PhD in physics and somehow shortcut to insinuating they're a Nazi, make an emotional appeal, and just move on to another topic. It's both infuriating and awe inspiring to listen to.
I mean, he did debate a PhD philosopher and made the infamous "aqua" argument. lol
You are saying this in response to him debating Tracey, who is clearly tryign everythign he can to propagandise and twist facts to fit his desire to quietely support fascism.
@@dorianleakey Did you just shortcut to implying an inclination toward fascism on my part because I think Vaush engages with sophistry? Any doubts I had, that Vaush's audience was comprised solely of angsty teenagers has been assuaged. Please don't post on the internet for another 10 years.
@@silkyjohnson3346 Kind of, I implied and believe with all my heart that supporting destiny is more important to you than opposing fascism, or life itself, that if you could save a life by call Destiny a prick you would choose not to, because when you have someone like Tracey getting angry with Vaush, despite Tracey even having toenails that justify nazism you will be upset with Vaush, because Destiny tells you to.
Grrrrrr.
1:00:00 " I know you're a virgin, cause you don't know what the weather is in Miami". ~ Destiny 2022
My favorite part of this Vaush debate was when destiny fought his hardest to not go outside
Libertarian boat ride = Some Epstein shit
"Nuclear war isn't the worst scenario"
Bruh, why is everyone normalising nuclear war
@@devonteforeman everyone dying in a nuclear apocalypse is worse then some countries developing nuclear weapons and threatening to use them.
Destiny didn’t talk about the risk of nuclear war, he said actual nuclear war isn’t the worse possible outcome. That is simply absurd . There is a reason why we survived the Cold War, because our world leader knew nuclear war was the end of civilization
Destiny wants the world to burn obviously
The tension felt after Steven asked for another Michael was so strong when Vaush didn’t say it
MICHAEL DONT LEAVE ME HERR
NGL the fact that Michael can't take the stance of "How we got into the war was bad but there was a good outcome of the Nazi's losing the war" is really odd to me....
Do the ends justify the means?
Your politicians can lie you into war, and thats cool because there was a good outcome?
Pretty sure that's what he was saying. Only, he was going into unnecessary detail about WHY how the US got into the war was bad and then kept getting interrupted.
Is it just me or does destiny no longer provide any original criticism when reviewing other peoples debates … it was funny once pointing out vaush repeating the guys name but it got really old after the 5th or 6th time … if you think vaush was making a bad argument, critique that instead of just memeing
When Destiny debated him, he didn't do any better. The guy is undebatable. Years ago, Sam Seder debated him on the Russia investigation & Trump, and it was exactly the same. The guy is a grifter who can't string an argument together. He is so insecure that he just rambles. And since he has done it for so long, he has some skill in filibustering any possible exchange of ideas. Destiny was wrong in criticizing Vaush. But he did that out of spite because Destiny also lost some debates.
Vaush paraphrase:
,,No one is comparing situations within the domain of only moral apsolutes."
&
,,Was it good? Yes or no? No in between."
Vaush: I don’t know what good or bad even mean
Also Vaush: YOUR INTERPRETATION OF THIS TOPIC CAN ONLY BE “THING GOOD” OR “THING BAD”
We need a "Michael" counter.
The nuance Vaush described around 09:00 is the type of nuance he does not allow his opponents to endorse on many types of issues
He's essentially doing the same shit that racist cunts do with 13/50. "Is this true, yes or no?" And if you ever try to add any information they just shut it down with more "YES OR NO!?!?!"
MICHAEL... MICHEAL??!!! MICHAEEEEEEEEEEEEL?!!! cue metal gear death soundfile
Vaush is the kind of guy you don't want in a survival situation. Same with Destiny not gonna lie lololol.
I would kill them first before they killed me
I'd still rather take Destiny over Vaush in my group if I was in a Hatchet or Lord of The Flies situation.
I don’t know much about destiny but I don’t think either of them have very many survival skills. just to be honest..
You could say this about 99% of streamers.
I would not want to be in a survival situation with anyone who’s job is to be online constantly
nobody else hate when destiny speeds up these debates to like 2x speed? I don't care if it makes me dumb or whatever I find it much harder to hear what the people are saying.
Nah I prefer faster - I usually watch these streams on 2x anyway so it’s perfect that the vids are sped up but his reaction which I actually want to hear is slow
Just got to listen faster bro...
Nah but I agree, 1.5x is the sweet spot, 2x is too fast for some portions
Idk I pretty much everything but music/media at 2x
@@calmsimon I want to hear the content he is reacting to and the reaction.
@@Imperial_Squid yeah 1.5 is okay. I think he went back to 1.5 or lower like 10 mins into the vid so it was fine.
Seriously, whatever you think about Vaush, and we all know Destiny couldn't ever admit to anything but disdain I can't for my life understand how anyone could watch this debate and think Tracey came across in a positive light or managed to present a compelling argument of any kind. Yes, he probably said 90% of the words in the debate, but did he really say anything?
I'm only 75% of the way through and my take away this far is no one won... Both parties come across in a negative light. They are constantly trying to talk over each other and half the time you can't even hear any point anyone is making.
The double loss on Vaush's part is hom talking over people isn't him even trying to make a point it's just him saying the guys name over and over again. On top of that the very premise of trying to get people to answer yes or no on a complex topic while not allowing any further clarification is the most retarded thing on the planet. It's literally Vaush just searching for the "wrong" answer so he can declare victory to his chat.
@@Segphalt ....wdym. vaush literally told Tracey he could clarify his answer once he gave it, then immediately after vaush said that Tracey tried to go down another tangent. Tracey literally just avoided the question
yup... however users here also hate vaush or only think what destiny thinks so they will never admit it
@@Sesshounamaru7 Tracey did avoid addressing anything vaush said but vaush came across looking just as bad with his behavior.
because destiny is frustrated by vaush so he'll nitpick anything he can about vaush and ignore everything wrong with michael, and then his audience just mimics what destiny says because fans are braindead
>Everyone except the Nazis wanted US intervention (I assume he is referring to american citizens)
>over 90% of US americans didn't want to go to war.
This has been the case for both WWs by the way. Public support was very much non-existent, it was the establishment which got the US into both wars.
I am not going to get into the moral dilemma of stopping the nazis or anything like that, esp. because people were not aware of the extend of the crimes against humanity happening, but fact is, most people in the US were anti-war. Afterwards it allowed a time for where military intervention was considered good, as a consequence of what was found in germany post ww2, but as more and more military interventions turned out to be disasterous, which has caused a return of anti-war sentiment.
It sounded like to me Vaush was saying the most people today agree that the intervention was good. He uses the present tense “most people think it was good” as opposed to “most people thought it was good.”
Lmao he’s talking about today everybody knows he’s talking about today stop VDS posting
I love how you start off with "I'm not going to get into it," and then write up a thesis.
What most Americans don’t recognize is that it’s still incredibly retarded to justify something as moral post-hoc. No possible ethical system allows this, all ethics is prospective. America entered into WW2 against the wishes of the public, and then justified it post-hoc by reference to the Holocaust which no one knew was happening until 1942 really and no one really cared about until 1945. It’s like me punching you in the face and then you finding out at the doctor I actually killed a tumour in your cheek. The result was good but intentionality plays a moral role. Even utilitarians accept this, intention as having moral weight in determining cost/benefit. Otherwise there’s no prospective basis for good or harm to be determined to begin with.
To bad that Germany declared war on the US then.
Michael, Michael, Michael
Michael, Michael, Micheal
>Let me propose a pretty complicated question
>But you can only answer yes or no
You can literally see Vaush start shaking from annoyance because he knows the answer will be something he can't argue with. Or he's just seething for no reason.
Or because he wanted to pin the guy down on a real answer and not a twenty minute runaround.
You’re wrong. Vaush on multiple occasions gave him room to “say yes or no, and then elaborate on your answer”
Sort of like how you can write the general conclusions of a study in the Abstract section, and then delve into the finer details in the next few pages.
He refused to. That’s on Tracey, not Vaush.
Tracey could have said “(yes or no), but let me elaborate on the nuances of this subject And how I got to that conclusion.”
There is no reason to believe that is not a reasonable suggestion unless you’re blatantly acting in bad faith
No Michael was being weasel vaush have him a chance to say yes or no and elaborate
vaush sucks but lets be honest tracey got btfo'd
As much as I dislike Vaush and as much as I disagree with him, I have to say that Michael was worse.
It was painful to watch, I don't even know what Michael is arguing for.
Of course, you can't answer every question with yes or no, but he couldn't even take a stance at all on even the most basic questions!!
Seemed like Michael was just saying that the government lying to people is borderline ontologically evil. Maybe I'm just tripping though
Of course you don't know what he was arguing for, he couldn't go more than 3 words before being interrupted.
I feel like they didn't go over anything meaningful during the entire debate.
Yeap, pretty much that.
"It doesn't matter why we entered the war or how much we lied to our people, it matters that we killed nazis." - Yup, checks out with Vaush's philosophy - no bad tactics, just bad targets.
When answering the question 'was military intervention good' no, it doesn't matter at all. Michael was a fucking weasil; just answer the goddamn question. Discussing whether or not the US government behaved poorly in the leadup to the intervention isn't relevant to whether or no the intervention was good...
The boat and rain talk was my favorite part of this lmao
Vaush really commended himself on not hitting the mute button a while after muting the guy
Every time you think there won't be another Michael
Destiny endlessly making fun of Vaush for absolutely trivial observations and making Tracey stick to the point, then making his same arguments (see: appeasement). Fucking hilarious.
Yeah this video titles are reaching hard.
@@comicsans6487 ? What about this title is inaccurate
Vaush doesnt want to stick to a point, he doesnt want his opponent laying out a logic train, he wants a yes or no to a very complicated question then immediately interrupt, allow for no expansion, then take the yes/no answer (absent any nuance) to make the opponent look evil.
Because when it comes to Vaush, Destiny becomes petty and contrarian to anything Vaush says during a debate with anyone.
Reading this comment section genuinely makes me feel like I’ve been teleported to an alternate dimension.
Like, are you people actually going to bay for Michael fucking Tracey, of all people?
Someone get Vowsh a “Baso de Aqua”
It’s so frustrating when streamers don’t give you the courtesy of doing basic research on the topic you’re debating. Very rude Vawsh!
Is Vaush not being inappropriate toward this dude?? Had the dude been a women, the was Vaush is speaking would be considered highly disrespectful.
Dude asked if boats can go out in the rain. Maybe Vaush has outpaced him, intellectually
Rain usually means thunderstorms in Florida. You’re not supposed to be on a boat when it’s a thunderstorm outside
Vaush saying “Michael” over and over is triggering me so much and I’m only 12 minutes into the video. I don’t think I can make it much further.
Update: I got high and it’s funny now
Warhawk Destiny! I guess violence is always the answer.
Warhawks have always been based, cope harder.
@@cultreader9751 You are an enemy of humanity.
Everyone looked bad in this debate. Michael (micheal) really gave this one away in my opinion. He allows himself to fall into the caricature Vaush makes of him in two ways I think. First, he responds to every question posed with way too much exposition and context. Vaush builds this caricature on this initial mistake. Second, Micheal especially fucks up when responds to literally almost every comment Vaush makes, instead of cutting through and trying to address only the important points. Vaush is able to constantly disrupt the conversation and build on the caricature of Micheal (micheal) because Micheal (micheaaaaal) keeps responding to this shit.
It takes two seconds for Vaush to say some shit for Micheal to respond to, but it takes like 20 seconds for Micheal to address why he disagrees or why it's dumb.
Vaush was plainly unprepared for this discussion. He also (unprovoked) insulted Micheal's hairline, sexually harassed him (which didn't get enough attention in my opinion), called him crazy, and was just a huge douche to Micheal. Micheal could have weaponized all of this to come out on top, by simply avoiding the caricature and doing stuff like politely asking for charity or time to explain his points and politely asking Vaush to stop attacking like he was. When Vaush tried to drag him into the mud, he'd look super bad if Micheal were to play this a little differently.
Instead, I think Vaush's bullshit smokescreen works pretty well to disguise how fucking horrible he was in this discussion.
he went of to tangent after tangent, with the classic "did you hear of XYZ?" You havent? Oh too bad cause its automatically explains everything. Its like some Anti Vaxer asking you if you heard of some obscure study that was done in mongoloia in 2006, and because nobody has heard of it, he can bullshit his way from this point. Tracey is a slippery eel, that never gives an definitive answer and always trying to add some meaningless caviat. You think Vaush was dishones in his debate tactic, i mean how dishonest is it just to gish gallop 24/7 and cloak it as "getting to the point", nobody is watching a debate to see one side just bulldoze the other side with tangential monologes that never really serve any purpose except getting further and further away from the topic at hand.
Take a shot every time Vaush says "Michael". Difficulty: liver failure
"It's Miami!! You virgin, now I know you're a virgin because everybody that's the first thing they learn, when they get home, they get a text with all the weather" hahaha Destiny deciding whether to go on the boat orgy and shouting MICHAELLLL MICHULLLL MICHOOOL 🤣🤣
Am i the only one that thinks Destiny's interest in Vaush is lowkey cute?
It's quite sad actually
Even a spiteful mother cat checks on her babies
@@WestliFerZul destiny is clearly obsessed with vaush but to be fair vaush is literally one of the most fun people to cover because he’s either a kaseytron level character or just insane
@@WestliFerZul I don’t think it’s sad, Vaush just makes for good content, saying this as someone who’s a fan of them both
@@WestliFerZul I mean Vaush came out of Destiny’s community. I think that makes it totally fine to watch him on stream make an ass of himself.
"Hey, I'm Vaush. I think sexual harassment is A-okay! Don't worry, I'm gay so it's allowed. Also, here's some homophobia. Again! I'm gay, so it's A-Okay!"
This f*ckin' guy. Lmao
That feel when a post sounds like a strawman but I legit left his community because of this.
This journalist has lost his mind if he thinks the US never gave a declaration of war for WW2, Iraq or Afghanistan.
And the way he dodges around the opening acts of US involvement in WW2 is so disingenuous.
Vaush has obviously outpaced him intellectually.
MICHAEL
What do you mean? Tracy refused to answer any questions and kept going off on tangents about nonsense the entire time. I don’t even know how you’re criticizing Vaush for this one…
It's because destiny and his fans are obsessed with hating vaush.
Why is vowsh so sexually aggressive? It's fucking creepy. (Yes, I know of the poppy stuff)
23:00 Destiny BLATANTLY agrees with Vaush's entire point here but still lets his obsession with spite politics blind him to believing Tracy despite his insane slipperiness.
also jesus his ONLY criticisms of Vaush are interrupting rambling with yelling & "reading chat"... both of which are literally habits he got FROM Destiny
Hey, he can be very spiteful and he does criticize people of doing things that he does. He sometimes lacks a lot self awareness but that’s what happens when you’re a streamer. I say this as someone who dislikes both though.
Y’all are so desperate to push the spite narrative when he acknowledges repeatedly when he makes a point, something Vaush never does for Destiny.
@@chrisbartolini1508 dude. this is the problem. Vaush doesn't talk about Destiny. he explicitly avoids it. as someone who likes both but is mostly a Destiny watcher, it's INSANE how much he talks about Vaush.
@@lallig8860 aaaaahahahahahahahahahaha
@@chrisbartolini1508 ?????
“Nuclear War isn’t the worst outcome” is such a bad take holy shit. Like. Holy SHIT. I’m sorry, but the mental gymnastics it takes to justify the opinion that the END OF ALL HUMAN CIVILIZATION IN NUCLEAR FIRE isn’t the worst possible outcome is actually fucking insane.
Can someone timestamp where destiny actually comments on the shit hes reacting to? Im 14 minutes in, and he muttered maybe one sentence
Just skip the whole thing bro 😂
Regardless of vaushs pontificating Michael Tracy has been proven to be a clown at this point
What was the name of the guy Vaush was debating? I must have missed it.
look I know we hate vaush here but this guy was GIGA SCHIZO
1:14:49 The greatest debate tactic Vaush has ever pulled.
Michael: "So I'm definitely not saying that we shouldn't have intervened in WWII, I'm saying that our intervention being a good thing there doesn't mean our intervention in Ukraine is good as well, because these are not even close to similar events"
Vaush: "So you're saying we shouldn't have intervened in WWII, that the Nazis should have won, and that Ukraine should get no aid because strong fascists deserve to win? You're getting kicked friendo"
Nothing but dubs
lol he was literally saying how intervention in WW2 led to more jews being killed than would be the case otherwise, and how the whole WW2 is western fault... Don't know who you are trying to lie, tweets are still up
@@filip6702 nah fr?
On god?
¿creo que sí?
Vaush definitely didn’t study for this debate.
But he also clearly didn’t need to when his opponent is this poor at debate.
He won’t answer anything straight.
In historiography there's like a functionalism and an intentionalism perspective... Vaush strikes me as more of an intentionalism guy whereas Tracey seems more of a functionalism person... I think largely functionalism is more popular, at least that's how it is judging by how the Browning-Goldhagen controversy which I wrote an essay about weeks ago... Browning was a functionalist and he viewed the reasons for why ordinary Germans conscripted into Unit 101 were able to carry out face to face extermination of Jews, believing a lot of it had to do with social pressures essentially, like peer pressure and pressure from authority figures... This makes him more of a functionalist, but then he was challenged by Goldhagen who argued that 'eliminationist antisemitism' which was uniquely a part of German culture (as he argues "no Germans, no Holocaust" iirc, not believing that any other country would've done something similar if not them) was deeply embedded in German culture as far back as the Middle Ages and that practically all Germans were supportive of the elimination of Jews...
And if you're wondering about sources, Browning is kinda biased in that he largely ignores Jewish sources on the matter, the perspectives of the victims, but on Goldhagen's end he doesn't even provide a bibliography or anyway to easily find his source material really and it seems like he only looks at secondary source material rather than primary...
And I think there's a lot more to critique with Goldhagen (who has largely defended himself by dodging criticism and filing lawsuits apparently) such as all the problems with acting like there was anything unique about German antisemitism before the Holocaust... Legit not long before the Nazis the Jews lived very normal lives in Germany and elsewhere... Jewish persecution in Europe historically has been usually fairly brief and only in response to something bad happening like a plague (since they were often scapegoated for such things)... There were also examples of Germans supposedly not able to handle the psychological stress of what the einsatzgruppen demanded of them which seems like it makes sense... And even when the Nazis were persecuting the Jews, you did have some Germans and other people sympathetic to them... In the US they had rallies to "Boycott the Nazis" iirc in response to the boycott of Jews which the Nazis attempted in like the mid 1930s since Hitler hoped this would be more effective than it was (since vandalism as seen in kristallnacht means unrest), but many Jews were undeterred, kept their businesses open and stood outside them showing how good Germans they were during this boycott with their WW1 medals on display... And the boycott was largely ignored and seen as a failure since there wasn't enough antisemitic will among the people for it... It's also worth noting that when the Nazis were seriously deep in the rhetoric of antisemitism and imperialism was in the 1920s when they barely managed to get any votes, and then later on they moved to less extreme rhetoric aimed at anti-republicanism and nationalism... Additionally, when the Nazis forced Jews to wear the gold stars it put the persecution right in the faces of the Germans, many of whom were so not okay with it that it led to them offering their seat on the tram to Jews... Others would leave gifts of food and other things outside the doors of Jewish people... I heard this one source which was a Jewish man that survived from beginning to end of the Holocaust how even though things were looking very scary for him, he did have a German person who I think was his neighbor which gifted him clothes to wear seemingly because he was Jewish... Additionally forcing Jews to wear these stars made them have less anonymity and so when one of them would strangely disappear one day all the people who knew that person would be able to attach a name/story and everything to the individual who was taken away and it was no longer more of a rumor whether or not they were Jewish since you could tell... It sort of made it less of a faceless statistic or rumor and more of a tragedy that was pretty hard to deny... Anyway, point being that there were plenty of non-antisemitic people out there who did seem to care... So it seems weird for Goldhagen to take what is basically a biological essentialism perspective that they were basically all bad based on a few hundred of people in like the einsatzgruppen which he extrapolates to the entire German populace...
Also I heard critique that Goldhagen's work is really more of a moral book than a history book... Like, he basically just criticized the Nazis as being morally evil and then acted like this was something new and profound...
You care about this far too much
MYKULL, MYKULL, MYKULL
"nuclear war with Russia is not the worst thing that could happen." lmao you're actually unhinged.
Vaush super annoying and unprepared… BUT homie on the other end speaks like my mom in never ending context that makes me feel like I’m drowning in word vomit
I feel like most of y'all would agree with Voosh over Tracey on actual positions but because it's Voosh talking you gotta do the spitepill thing
The spite comes from a real place, he created this spite in people though his patterns of behavior. Vaush is the only person I can start watching a debate on his side but he is so insufferable by the end I actively want to disagree with him. There are little few things more annoying than demanding yes or no answers from someone on a complex topic. How retarded it is can be summed up in a single question.
Answer yes or no: Are drugs bad?
I'll await your yes or no answer and disregard any additional clarity you wish to mention and yell your name back at you while you try and make it.
“Michael! Michael!! MICHAEL!!!”
The word fascist took me a few months to memorise the meaning of because people always use it incorrectly. The word has basically been boiled down to - someone who disagrees with me. Just like the word Nazi
Destiny saying that nuclear war isn’t the worst outcome is such a hot and bad take that it reminds me why he shouldn’t be taken seriously in a lot of subjects. Jfc, no wonder his ego is so big.
He should've phrased it better tbh, cause in both of his other hypothetical outcomes nuclear war still occurs but Russia is slightly stronger lol.
@@johannliebert2870 Sure, but nuclear war should be avoided at all cost. Doesn’t matter if it’s against a weaker or stronger Russia. They still have their nukes.
@@WarningBFG-isHiring I agree. Destiny's point was that appeasing Russia so they don't use nukes won't work cause they'll continue to take advantage of that to take more.
@@WarningBFG-isHiring his point was that appeasement and letting russia take ukraine has no effect on wether or not nuclear war is on or off the table, whose to say they wont just do it again? at some point the nukes fly if you let them build the confidence that the west isnt going to stop them
Yeah im not sure what could be worse than that tbh
you seem a bit obsessed with this guy
Holy damn, this is peak bad-faith from destiny. Christ. Turned into a reactionary.
Refusing to get involved in other people's wars isn't "appeasement."
Actually it is.. what did chamberlain do? Refused to get involved in other peoples wars..
@@falseprophet1024 When does your flight to Ukraine leave? What percentage of your money have you donated to Ukraine? Or are you an appeaser?
Few appeasers were really prepared to seek peace at any price; few, if any, anti-appeasers were prepared for Britain to make a stand against aggression whatever the circumstances and wherever the location in which it occurred.
The idea of calling it appeasement is itself a mind game, because it's just not that simple it's not just "Giving the bad guy what they want"
"Not our problem" is often a reasonable strategy... Or do you go out of your way to stop any crime you see in progress?
Like if you applied the term in your personal life the same way we seem to in geopolitics then any compromise you have ever made was actually just appeasement and you are bad for doing it.
I'm in no way for what Russia is doing but the idea of any compromise is a bad compromise is simply stupid. If Zelenski starts compromising with Russia at some point and they come to an agreement, are you going to get mad about it? Are you going to tell the people of Ukraine "you are supposed to get out there and die, cause I someone who isn't there and is hardly affected by it don't want you to appease Russia!" ?
@@Segphalt
My flight leaves at the same time as yours..
Im pointing out that its not like Chamberlain was letting Hitler have British land.. The British could have said the same thing, "its not appeasement, its just not getting involved"..
It'd be nice if they could agree on anything..
41:50
#1 vaush has open admitted to just how lazy he is (hence the lack of preparation).
#2 his narcissism would never allow him to feel like he needs to prepare to win a debate.
There is no lack of preparation. Vaush was correct in not reading the guys articles. The tweets should be able to stand on their own .And the tweets were very very bad and very controversial. And in this debate, he had basically nothing to say to defend them.
Spite driven destiny at it again, I wonder what it’s like to not have any real principles.
Michael Polo.
Vaush out of water
Or as they say in Mexico 'aqua'
Polo
Can someone explain to me who is being deceptive about US involvement and in what ways? Vaush never really let Michael explain that bit.
10:15 Destiny is wrong here. Vaush isn't engaging with the question because he still doesn't have an answer to his question.
To go down that rabbit hole would be to let Michael off the hook on his bad faith obfuscation.
MICHAEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111one
Honestly I thought Vaush did better than usual ... Not really saying much but I actually agree more with Vaush than the "murica bad" journalist.
Hey don't go against the narrative that everything vaush does is bad
I understand Destiny(a woman's name) likes to trash on Vaush, but I mean, the other dude is an actual weasel here.
His argument that the US invaded Iceland is simply astonoshing...
Iceland was occupied by britain in 1940 adn then Britain transfered the islands protection to the US in 1941... That alone defeats his "Government was misleading", not entirely, but does makes everything else he says quite dumb.
I hate people that try to force you into a "yes or no" answer on some topic that simply cannot be answered by a simple yes or no. And then they get mad when you try to elaborate.
On general real world topics yes but its also good to watch out for those who try to weasel out of Yes/No questions to simple hypotheticals cos they don't like how it looks to agree
@@MrJpc1234 Oh of course yea it can be a good way to limit thoses behaviors you're right.
My dude the question was "Should America have joined the allies in WW2?" You can literally say "Yes they should've joined but I don't condone the atrocities they did." It's that simple. This weasel spent minutes talking about the weirdest tangential shit.
@@mnemosyne1337 his tangential shit, was explaining what he would not be condoning, but Vaush was too busy interrupting him every 2 words and not letting him speak no one knows what he would be saying.
@@deadzoneternity No it wasn’t. Every time he started talking, it was either about how United States attacked Germany first or they were already in the war, not wanting to spend billions in the war, not being lied to and therefore not participate in the war.
What time did he say, “yes the US definitely should e participated in the war, but...” or something like that? He even goes on to say he doesn’t want to give a definitive answer because it could be used to justify war 80 years later.
This guys is such a moron that he keeps tripping over himself with his talking points.
As a real professor at a real university, you should know that if in fact you did release the answers to a test on your website, many students would not read it. I have tried.
Actually true
A woman like Destiny shouldn’t get stuck out on a boat with no way out... Because of the implication.
Vaush watches Destiny videos during his downtime trying to learn.
right in my feed! 💕
feeed
@@kingrainbow5432 true!
@@addie1080 Terrrrrue!
This felt like watching The Office. "MICHAEL!"