The Room is half the Guitar Sound!
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- Опубліковано 14 жов 2024
- '67 Marshall Black Flag JTM100 and '68 50W Lead 1987 played through a '70 Marshall 1960A 4x12 with a 2008 Gibson Les Paul 1959 Reissue. Room Microphone, Close Microphone and blended are compared
Absolutely the room changes sound ! In our unfinished basement, with my son on drums and myself playing through a DSL into 4x12 cab a friend commented it sounded raw and loud. That was a understatement ! I tried a DSL 100 in a small glass enclosed sound suppressed enclosure at a store and it was punishing with volume on 2. All of your demos sound professional and microphones placed in ideal location. Not always the case with other channels. Thanks Johan ! :)
Thanks Mitchell, it is often a question of finding a good room. Cheers
It's amazing how many different things effect tone.
Yeah, indeed, Cheers
Love the blend!
Hi Johan,
Thanks for your comments. Great insight.
This demo is unlike any I've seen before. Great comparison! All the sounds have there place. Tonight, I like the room sound best. ;)
Thanks George, yeah the room sound conceys the brute power of the stack best :-)
WoW are all those your amps! awesome! you ARE the stage props man! amazing! sounds awesome as well!
+WADE BRADLEY Hi! No unfortunately. :-) They belong to Pleximaster.
Good video. For those using machines at home like me, AmpliTube 3 has an excellent room simulation that can be panned, widened and mixed to taste with different types of room. It truly makes a huge difference and helps tailoring your tone.
Thanks, yeah simulations of early reflection reverb has made some progress
this is inspiring. thanks Johan.
If you find the precise blend of the two mikes you're golden man. You need both. Well done Yohan.
Thanks :-) yeah both mics sound incomplete on their own. Cheers
Johan Segeborn I dissagree. It depends on the style of music. For rock stuff definetely yes. But something like metal, the guitar tone needs to be tight.
Yeah, you're right. In most compressed mixes the room frequncies (lower mids) may mask attack and edge and muddy up the bass.
Johan Segeborn Precisely that!
Great and informative video Johan. This confirms my point which was once a mystery over twenty years ago, I'd grown up listening to the tones of classic Metallica, Megadeth and Pantera...the usual BRUTAL tones, then getting historic into favourite bands influences like BRITISH ROCK underground bands, punk rock...I always thought of the ROOM SOUND as the OLD tones by the grass roots level bands...I used to think "Just crank the mids on the amps EQ!" ...But I soon realised it was more than likely ROOM SOUND! Amazing video
When I was in college I used an Epiphone Century 18 watt 1X12 amp as a practice amp. I kept it on top of my 1/2 dresser (right at ear level from a seated position), and the room was carpeted and roughly 10X10 with an 8 foot ceiling, and that amp sounded awesome in that room like that. I came home and put the amp on the hardwood floors in a roughly 15X15 room with a 9 foot ceiling and it sounds tinny and weak, almost useless for what i like to play.
+Connor Nepomuceno Great feedback! The curse of guitar players or musicians in general - if the context changes one has to adapt. So it's hard to rehearse for a gig in room/hall without rehearsing in it. Cheers
Both mics are killing. Great choice
Natural reverb from a room is best. Sounds so cool when you blend the close mic and the distant mic. Jimmy Page did a interesting thing with his drummer (Bonzo) on "When The Levee Breaks" Was recorded in a house with a large foyer and Page placed mics up in the foyer and blended them, sounds beautiful.
How do you deal with the phase issues when using a room mic? Any tips you are willing to share?
if the mic is far enough back, there aren't really phase issues. It's just a direct sound and a room sound. It get's more tricky in the phase department when you have a really close mic and then maybe a mic only 8-12 inches back. Also he's panning the room and close mic to opposite sides.
Hi Johan. I've been following your videos for quite a while now. You have become one of the most informative sources on guitar sounds! Keep them coming!
Where do you get all these amps and cabinets from?
Your friend Gary from Germany
Hi Gary! Glad you like it, Sweden has the most Marshalls in the world per capita I've heard. And I borrow some from friends. See you around! Cheers Johan
For guitars distorted amp, the room itself on a close take don't impact so much in my opinion. It's more a matter of distance between the amp and the mic, and a matter of distance between the wall and the amp, especially for reflexions impact. Mics, drivers, cab, heads will impact the sound more, as they are earlier in the chain.
I agree, in close miking, the room is certainly less important, but still a qualifying factor
Sounds amazing...are you using any plugins in post?
Cheers!
:-)
I find that in these particular recordings that you do, there is a lot of detail in the close micing, that also captures a lot of the low end which sounds great. The room mic in this recording looses that detail. but adds an ambiance....not sure if its ideal.
I am experimenting as well and my "room" is just not going to cooperate...(too much carpet and many many books.
the room sounds in this recording reminds of a guitar store....that's not all together bad....but the close stuff is much better in this room.
***** Hi, You want mics with as different contributions as possble to avoid phas problems. This is a relatively small room but it sounds quite big. :-) Cheers
Serious question, I know most UA-camrs close mic, and the better UA-camrs will use a combination of close micing and room mic, but why do I never see anyone just using one mic, pulled back from the amp just enough to where it’s getting the closer tone but also picking up some space?
I usually put the close mic about 1 foot from the grill pointing at the edge of the cone. Further out the room will be too prominent and the results will only be relevant for this room.
Its room plugins for daws now.they emulate reverb i.think
yeah that way you can also change the size and shape of the room with your mouse, instead of a hammer and saw
There is also MANY sound coming of the back of the amplifier!
You can record it also
+Torpes That’s a really good idea for a clip! Cheers
I think you're partially correct, but also partially wrong. This is because it's far different when it comes to a mix with other instruments, rather than you just sitting there with your guitar and an amp. Truth is, other recorded instruments have a very strong tendency to
cancel out opposing instruments frequencies, not only because of phase and delay time issues, but also simply because of them fighting for certain frequency positions. That said, the 'sound of the room' pretty much becomes a worse factor. Personally, I think NO ROOM SOUND at all has a tendency to fit better into a mix, especially if it's crowded.
This is basic logic. Obviously, different reverbs slamming into each other is just going to turn everything into one big huge mess.
Disagree. When you only use one mic in front of the amp youre going to be hard pressed to get a great lead guitar sound that sounds like it has alot of sustain without a room mic. All of the great guitar sounds ive heard either use just a room mic or a combination of the room and a close mic. For rhythm guitar sure you dont always need an intruding room sound, but if its lead guitar if you just toss a sm57 in front of the grill youre not gonna capture any of your amps sustain and frequency potential.
Hi Johan, are both mics dynamic? which are they? (greetings from Chile ;) )
Hi Ricardo, they are both ribbons, BeyerDynamic M160. Cheers from Sweden! ;-)
Johan, is there any way of recording the room with an SM57? keep loving your videos
Ok...Johan, question....the house is on fire and you can only grab one head and cab to take with you to Valhalla.....which will it be ?
+Bo Lerkins hahaha! The head will be a 2016 Pure Tone Amps Offset and the cab will be a 1971 Marshall 1960A. Cheers
I just watched your review of that amp. If the house was on fire it's because the PT Offset lit the walls on fire and blew the roof off !
Don't you have a video about the JCM's ?
I'm planning a video with 2204 vd 2205 vs 2210 vs 2550
What microphone are you using for the room?
+Ivan Carlos Santiago That's a 1960s BeyerDynamic M160
Would a Ribon mic be better for this?
I wonder how all of your tones would sound with a better attenuator.
Hi, I compare a hotplate to a weber in this clip
ua-cam.com/video/41RD9ARJ5Ms/v-deo.html
Which attenuator do you prefer?
Right now the Power Station.
Nicolas Rivera Ok, gonna look it up, cheers
What make/model are the microphones?
Hi Luke, they are BeyerDynamics M160s from the late 60s
Do your neighbors love you?
Haha, it's bedroom volume actually. If I'd play this beast unattenuated I'd probably get arrested