man i've watched ALOT of rafting "carnage" videos but this is really something else. it would be sweet if the @Scholedale Productions channel that does all of the case study videos on river accidents picked this up but i think maybe there have to be fatalities to get them interested. so close. this was an MTA trip, yea? they don't exist anymore they were absorbed by a much more reputable outfitter a couple of years ago. i picked up one of their old NRS E130s real cheap, maybe it was this one! reading all of the comments here i really admire your attitude about the whole thing but i really think that commanding you all to grab the tree is unforgivable. this is the kind of thing that people with any reasonable experience running whitewater have nightmares about. i totally get stress under pressure and i can think of a million other mistakes in a situation like this that i could have compassion for but grab the tree ain't one of em. very glad to hear that everyone was ok for the most part. watching the video that did not seem like a very probable outcome.i totally thought it was going to have one of those Shamalan endings where you and your buddies turn out to be the two dead women from the beginning
Yes, I have watched a lot of rafting carnage videos too and I believe this is one of the more stressful ones to watch. luckily nobody died that day but there were more than a few people that thought they were going to. A couple of the swimmers in our group coughed up a bunch of water afterwards and one of those guys said he got stuck on a branch under water for a minute but managed to free himself. He is a surfer and credits that experience for why he was able to handle the underwater time as well as he did. I think it was very close to being a much worse situation that day. That particular week there were more deaths on the Kern in addition to the 2 ladies due to the unusually high flow from the unusually wet winter snow melt. There were local news reports just days after our trip citing the higher frequency of casualties that were occurring. I do believe it was an MTA trip as that sounds familiar, but I would have to verify that with my friend who booked us. As for my attitude towards the company it wavers a bit now and then, but I signed the waiver signing my life away just like everybody else that day knowing that things could go wrong. I guess I just didn't expect that almost the entire time would be things going wrong. But at the end of the day somehow, we managed to stay breathing even if it meant coughing up a gallon of water. Obviously, I wouldn't mind if a bigger channel picked this up and used it as a case study. My main purpose in making this video was to show people what they might actually be signing up for. As a father, I can't believe anyone takes their Kids on these trips down the Kern, and if I've prevented anyone from doing that by making this video then I think I've done a service to society. Thanks for watching and leaving such a great comment! Unfortunately, the video never gained enough traction fast enough to warrant making the documentary that I was considering making on it. As you stated somebody probably would have had to die for that to happen and if that's the case then I can live with less likes.
M.R.A. Trip, who where your guides? They had no business being on the Kern especially as guides. Should lose their job over this trip. Glad y'all survived
As a guide of 25 years, I'll throw in my two cents after reading a few of the comments here. Every state has varying degrees of regulations regarding licensing/certifying guides, or no regulations at all. I'm licensed in what are reputed to be two of the more strictly regulated, Maine & New York. I've worked on dozens of rivers up & down the east coast, including many stretches of Class V. I'd like to think that makes me somewhat of an "expert" on the subject. Maybe not. I developed a friendship with a group of guests over the five or six years they'd been coming rafting on The Penobscot. They finally convinced some of their reluctant friends to join them by selling me as such a skilled and trustworthy guide. On all their previous trips none of them had fallen out of my boat but they had seen it happen to others. This trip changed things. At the beginning of one of the big rapids we had a "dumptruck" with everyone falling out except me. I managed to get a few of them back in the boat fairly quickly but had to rely on some of my co-workers to pick up the rest. To my mind, it was all handled pretty well and it was over fairly quickly. No one was hurt beyond a bruise and some scraped knees. That was about ten years ago and I haven't been able to convince any of them to get back on the river with me since. I've had plenty of other guests over the years who didn't feel the trip was complete without a flip or two. It's all a matter of perspective. And just because I'm good at what I do, doesn't mean I don't get caught by surprise once in a while. It just means it happens to me a little less often than it happens to some others. I've had a handful of rough swims and one where I honestly thought I was going to die but I continue to guide. We all have different perspectives. I've no doubt this guide was doing his level best under the circumstances despite a couple questionable decisions. It's very hard to sort it all out from GoPro footage. Cheers to you all. See you on the river!
Thank you for your expert opinion! I know it's easy for us all to play Monday Morning Quarterback and 💩all over the Guide in situations like this and I'm sure the guy probably has had a thousand things or days that went right to this 1 day were almost everything went wrong. But at the end of the day we were all still alive and breathing which means he did his Job well enough under the situation. My hats off to that guy for even having the balls to go down that river as many times as he has with a bunch of newbies and use his experiences to try to ensure that they are still breathing at the end of the day. That's a huge responsibility that I don't think I would wanna take!
I grew up on the Kern, was a commercial guide on this river for several years in high school and college. Watching this was tough. This is on the Upper Kern, it is a VERY ROCKY freezing cold.. long section.. Here is my takeaways....what really made this a difficult and dangerous situation is the length of the rapid and the high water flow.. As I watched the video..I looked for good place for these folks to eddy out and just never saw a good spot..and even if there was, your crew has to listen, stay focused, and paddle hard to catch those eddies with that type of flow.. So I know lots of critics here..but this was a tough spot to be in.. Once you see a boat go over, everyone goes into "rescue mode"..until all the sudden, your own boat is out of control and you are now in danger yourselves. I am not sure if everyone was ok or not, but I sure hope so. People's natural reaction is to swim for the sides and grab a tree or a branch..but 9.9 times out of 10, your better off to stay in the middle, swim the rapid until it is over, and hope you can catch the eddie below the rapid.
Definitely one of the reasons I was never interested in guiding: there is no guarantee that any of your PEEPS will be competent at using a paddle. Watching that video, the guide was getting next to NO help from much of anyone. It’s a make-it or break-it deal on a river moving that fast in that high of water with NO USABLE BANK, just trees guaranteed to snag you and trap you where you don’t have the strength to free yourself against hundreds of pounds of force from the river…if you don’t have anyone that knows how to bury the blade and actually propel the boat the guide can only do so much. This was not the time or place to test out lily dipping ability. Not in flood-stage class IV cold-ass early season runoff.
@@samsonian Which is why it's a good idea to give your crew of newbies as much training and knowledge as possible BEFORE you get into the shite. I always worked my customers good and hard well in advance of the serious WW so they'd know what to do when I gave them commands, starting with getting the entire blade into the water, following the stroke timing of the guy in front of you and timing your strokes to get the blade into the wave face, etc. Paddling air never got anyone anywhere.
Hi John, this is Daren (aka "Bad Day Guy"). My girl and I just came back to MRA, this weekend for another round down the river in the same weekend. Needless to say my nerves were still there and didn't make it in, my girl made a run at it though. I met up with your guide Tim and my guide who flipped the boat Josh, and Tim shared this video with me. Gave me chills watching it, we just came back today to watch it again. Wow, very intense, had no idea about what you all went through and thank you all for doing your best to save my life. All is good, I had a great time running in the rapids twice earlier in the day but, I was basically holding my breath and trying my best not to die to make it to shore later in the day with you all. I have pics from the trip and the group picture of all of us if you don't have it. Great job in the video.
Hi Daren!! So nice to hear from you! Sorry about the "Bad Day Guy" thing. Due to poor audio on the Go Pro, (I wasnt sure on your name, or if you would want it used?) I had to come up with something. I can't believe you went back there for one, and got this from Tim! (same thing on his name) I can't blame you on the nerves, I didnt really want to get back on a Raft to get back across the river after that! but "had to" I'd maybe do something a little less hairy with the right crew, maybe Catagory 3, but no urge to go there soon if ever. I gotta give it to you for getting back on the Raft (or Horse) that threw you, and getting thrown a 2nd time, and getting on again. And for Self Rescueing after a long, long time in the water. Sorry we couldnt actually save you, but we definetly tried in the midst of our own Perill. Tim was intense and a Bad -Ass and quite frankly one of the only redeeming qualities of that company that day. There was Chaos happening and he seemed to be the only one that knew wtf was going on, while being barked at by a couple young guns that acted like they know shit, but it didnt seem like it. Those guys all have balls the size of grapefruit for doing that stuff all the time. But Big Brains are Better.
Yeah. Driving a raft into trees in a continuous flow like that is a dumb idea. I hope that guide has moved on to a career where his decisions can't put people in obvious danger.
I went rafting this year also and it was an insane year we had class V everywhere and technically you were just lucky to stay alive. That was a crazy ride glad everyone was safe pure luck 🤞
Thanks Jon! Yes, all are well aside from a little PTSD around white water. There were a few People that self-rescued that day. And I know all too well about the danger of Strainers after that. We were initially told to stay away from the Trees then in the heat of the moment told to grab on to the Tree. Even though 30' down we could have safely eddied out if we were focused on that.
Yeah I still get scared every time I watch it, the FPV is pretty unsettling for me especially since it was my head the camera was attached to. Thanks for watching and the kind words!
The overwhelming majority of that deaths that you see enumerated on the sign at the beginning of this video were NOT from organized whitewater rafting trips like this one, but rather from casual swimmers and beer parties on shore. Someone gets drunk, goes wading into the river on a hot day, slips and falls, then two drunk friends jump in after him/her, and they all get washed downriver and drown. No life jackets and little to no swimming experience, coupled with icy cold water, alcohol, and deceptively strong currents, combine to form the perfect storm to spell D-I-S-A-S-T-E-R. 😢
Did this guide just completely choke or what? I understand high water makes everything 10 times harder, but seriously. As a full time guide in Colorado of 19 years I was just wondering if this guide had any plan at all? I mean start with one swimmer, then the next, etc. Plus swimmers generally go faster than the raft so if you are wasting minutes on the swimmer last in line then the guys down river are totally gone. I'm glad everybody is OK. I've had some close calls too, actually on the Kern at high flow. Fast river.
The Upper Kern can be tricky, especially at high water, because it is in a fairly shallow canyon, which gives the river the opportunity to spread out into a lot of brush and trees. At high water, this is NOT a good place for the inexperienced.
Lol dam... imagine the guide fell off and u guys were still on the crucial desicions u guys would have to make. 2017 was a high water year. I did river boarding the thunder run at 7,000 cfs and it was some scary fun shit but more scary almost couldn't hold on to my board.
But yeah, I'm not sure what happened for sure but it wasn't really going well for anyone on that rafting trip. Including the Guide, but people make mistakes in stressful situations probably even more when your in charge of a boat load of Humans, But the more i watch what happened the more I question what would have happened if the guide fell off of the raft? Since I had to pull his ass back in. I saved his ass, and that was his job for me.
Come on. That is a class IV section of the river. The video started at the Wall (camp 3) and is still class IV at flows upwards of 5,000 cfs. You can flip a raft in class III. Anyone who rafts knows it can be dangerous and we are all just in between swims.
Yeah Rick, I'm not saying we didn't know death was a possibility. The giant sign declaring almost 300 deaths, the waivers we had to sign, and the speech before we went pretty much told us that. I'm just trying to let other first timers like myself know the seriousness involved in rafting that river in class IV rapids. I personally can't believe they let kids do this , I Think that you should be at least 18 and in pretty good shape to even attempt this.
I really hate to be the pessimistic, generalized a$$hole, but..wtf were you guys doing in the river? At 3000cfs, that river is considered Class IV/V in the section you ran. I don't care if they made you do some derpy swim test at the park, you had no business being in that river. The Kern River isn't a toy. It's not a game. It's nature and nature is cunty. As SAR, I think anyone who runs the river over 2500 cfs should be required to place $10,000 in insurance or deposit with the Kern and Tulare County Search and Rescue before they even get in the water. The rafting companies are insured- if they lose you, 'meh...they'll be another bus full of people coming up the canyon shortly. Your family loses a member. Is it worth it? Yes, the Kern is always and notoriously dangerous...but every day, for some unbelievable reason, people ignore the fact that they've never rafted before but somehow think they'll tame nature and best the beast. Get yourself a pass to six flags.
Yeah Rocky, You're absolutely right, it is Stupid to go on that river when it's like that. But as you stated, there are busloads of stupid people going in there every day. I think it's just human nature to try to cheat death every now and then as a way to kind of re-shuffle your deck. It definitely makes you appreciate your life a little more and those who are important to you. But I won't be doing anything like that for a while, I've got a pass to Disneyland so my next white water experience will be at California Adventure. Thanks for watching and thanks for your comment!
+CactysPete- you were lucky. Just so you know- camping along the Kern in unmarked areas was suspended in 2017. The politically incorrect truth is that certain cultures were openly defecating in riverside camps and leaving behind so much waste and trash that it was out of control. As a result, the very few free camping areas have become over used and abused.
SAR guys are always the experts....No fines, no Insurance. By the time you guys get there it will be a body recovery from the lake so what do you care.
Too much for a guided trip, obviously. Guided trips need larger margin of safety.There was very little control of situation. I have guided but would not guided the higher class water.
Thanks! It's cool, I agree that the Sound was terrible on the Camera. Thanks for enduring it as long as you did. And taking the time to leave me this negative comment! It's your honest opinion and I'm open to criticism. So thanks. If I ever figure out a way to boost the Audio from the Camera I will. And UA-camrs will have you to thank for it! So keep up that Negativity! You could change the World!
The Kern River is a serious river with a bad reputation, but is loved by many of river runners and is navigated safely by many rafts and kayaks each season even at high flows (when we are lucky enough to to have them). People who don't respect the power of water and swim without PFD's (life jackets) or think it's safe to tube a river drunk are mostly to blame for that reputation. There have been very few deaths if any involving commercial outfitters. I am a private boater but have been trained by a commercial company on the Kern River and I can tell you from experience they take safety very seriously. If you are going to raft the Kern be sure it's with a reputable company or a competent private boater and understand it is up to the parent to keep their child safe. If you read the waiver and listened to the safety talk, it's not the rafting company who let your child go. It is the parent who after being made aware of the risks decided to sign the waiver and allow their child go, don't blame the outfitter for your poor choice as a parent if those situations you were made aware of, end up happening.
Oh the tales I could tell, a Tulare County deputy shooting a rubber ducky three times to prevent a guy from swimming out and retrieving it at 3200 CFS.
The overwhelming majority of incidents, including fatalities, on the Kern happen at "beer parties" on the lower part of the river, below Lake Isabella. Drunk people, without proper equipment and maybe with some swimming pool toys from Walmart, go into the river and get swept away by the current, which can be deceptively fast. Due to alcohol and hypothermia, they are unable to save themselves, and they sometimes drown.
Why would a company run commercial trips when the water is high enough to be up in the trees/brush, meaning a swimmer couldn't swim to shore without the risk of getting pinned on a strainer? Sketchy.
Oh.. My goodness. Why was the guide not picking up swimmers? Why did he go into the bushes, creating a huge, ridiculous strainer? (You couldn't assume that would happen, but still, why? Looked like an eddy downstream..) No catching eddies or anything. Are those swimmers that were stuck on the side higher up alive? Dead??? What was the boat in front doing? What was the guide from the flipped raft doing? SO many questions. -_-
Man, that was nuts !! I would say this is required watching for anyone thinking about getting to this kind of thing, so they can see what happens when things go wrong real fast. Did the long version of this film ever get made ?? I would really like to see that.
Yes it was nuts, and it cured me of my desire to do anymore white water rafting, at least on that river. As for the longer version.. no it never got made, there just wasn't enough interest at the time to warrant my time to make it. Unfortunately there are plenty of Videos of things going wrong on this river. But thanks for watching mine!
@@norefudiatingit Your video is different though, it has a lot more suspense and seriousness than the others. Ok, I understand your reasons here, but should you ever change your mind I would like to be the first to know.
I'm a whitewater enthusiast and a commercial guide and I've gotta say, the river is to be respected, it's infathomably powerful. However, something about the way this rescue was handled does not sit right with me. Why on earth a guide would command his guests to grab on to a tree in swift moving current does not make sense to me. That current was strong, but he could've used ferry angles and lead his guests better, in my own opinion. Granted, when you're in it, you're freaking in it man.
It's too bad this video is all but unwatchable due to whatever that is that you call music drowning out the voices and sounds of the river. And whoever this guide is he seems to have a terrible time keeping his boat pointed downstream. Call me old fashioned but when I was guiding rafts running Cl 4/5 whitewater broadside all the way down was quite frowned upon.
The previous film I just watched had another guide headed for the brush/trees. what gives? I've done the Forks and most of the lower runs (not the Cataracts). Part of the problem is the trees and brush have a chance to grow most of the time and most years, then you get a good water year and much of the banks are lined with those brush strainers.. I'd take my chances rock dodging, lol. Nice to try to save others, but first do no harm.
Wow. Just Wow. So thankful you were ok, and thankful that kayaker helped. This will make a great documentary. What about the other raft? All ok? Just shows even when with a professional guide (who did an awesome job), the river is in charge.
Thanks Robert! Yeah everyone got rescued that day eventually, but there was a lot of behind the Scenes Drama and confusion since their resources became overwhelmed. The other rafters (The Swimmers) encountered a lot worse than my boat. Pretty much every one in my group felt like they could have died. Some held under water for extended time, 1 leg pinned temporarily, & 1 Puking up Water afterward. But I'll try to get all those things in the next video, thanks for watching him glad you enjoyed it. Stay dry lol.
I've rafted on a variety of rivers even some class 4+ rivers but I don't think I would EVER get on the Kern. This thing looks like it wants to drown you with all those hidden tree strainers and holes. This river looks more dangerous than it is fun/thrilling. Not worth it. I want a high thrill to danger ratio not the other way.
Yes indeed, from what I heard (please don't correct me if I'm wrong) it was running at about a class 5 in sections of the river at the time. We had a very good snowpack that year which was melting like crazy. It might not be as nuts right now as it was then due to the drought, but I'm probably not going to test that theory anytime soon. It sucks because I kind of enjoyed myself there a couple times. I swam in a slower section of that river (still pretty fast) in my 20's with some friends. Even back then the locals warned us that "a lot of folks from L.A. drown in this river every year" But I was a strong swimmer and didn't like people telling me what not to do, so I basically said "Hold my Beer!" Thanks for watching and your great comment!
I sure hope this guide gave up on guiding this day. He didn't belong there as much as all the the customers. He had no control, wasn't using his paddlers at all, kept floating sideways, couldn't catch an eddy, almost fell out, with serious crush potential on that rock, and put a boatload of people into the trees at highwater. Painful to watch, and scary that the company would risk the lives of their guests with a guide like that.
Well I thank you for watching and your comment but I kind of hope that he didn't quit, but that he learned a lot from the experience and has become a much better Guide as a result of it. We all have days like this where nothing seems to go right, but we just need to learn from them, and it makes us better at what we do. I'm not a big fan of quitting in general, unless it's a situation where you are being mistreated or disrespected or it's something that might kill you if you keep doing it. Somebody's got to do this Job and I'm sure it wasn't his first Rodeo, but my Dad always said... "if the horse throws you off you get back on the horse, If it throws you off again you punch it in the nose and get back on again".
WOW... As a long time guide, now strictly a private boater, I have run rivers at high water and it's always chaos regardless. Not necessarily to me and my boat, but I've pulled lots of swimmers out of the river, even if I'm struggling with the added current. However, I always go back to what my trainers/instructors drilled into me, trees in the river, either downed or standing are your worst nightmare and are something to always, one, be aware of and two, stay away from. While this clip doesn't show the onshore safety talk prior to launch, when I take a paddle crew down river I spend a good amount of time reinforcing the point that if any swimmer is carried by the current towards trees, actively swim away from them. Another rule that was drilled into my core was that when rescuing other swimmers, your number one responsibility is to keep the passengers in your boat safe. If you fail to do this, it only makes an already bad situation even worse, which is exactly what happened here. Not only did this boat fail to rescue the swimmer, it ended up pinned/semi wrapped against a tree.
That's great, I could see how it could be fun since I did have some fun, but that was my first time and probably my last since I'm a Father of 3. I still enjoy some adventures just probably not ones where I might drowned. I can think of a lot more ways I'd rather die if I were to be killed. But if you've done it 5 times your probably getting experienced at it. I just don't like being in a boat full of rookies in high waters. I'd possibly do it again if I could pick my crew and do something a little more chill. But you have Fun and be safe.
From what I understand, 2 ladies bodies were recovered the morning of our trip, from the day before. Luckily nobody died that day, but within around a weeks time 5 or 6 people lost their lives.
Never use numbers when giving commands. Can’t stand to watch a guide go give me to forward now give me two more when all they had to say was all forward. It fucks with their minds and conditions them to only paddle a few strokes.
Interesting comment, never really crossed my mind but makes sense. I know my friends and I discussed how it didn't always seem like everyone on our rafts were paddling as much or as hard as others. And also how weight distribution or even strength distribution wasn't really discussed or considered before they were like okay everybody get in. I know when I captain my boat weight distribution is on my mind and enforced regardless of feelings or who wants to sit together.
man i've watched ALOT of rafting "carnage" videos but this is really something else. it would be sweet if the @Scholedale Productions channel that does all of the case study videos on river accidents picked this up but i think maybe there have to be fatalities to get them interested. so close. this was an MTA trip, yea? they don't exist anymore they were absorbed by a much more reputable outfitter a couple of years ago. i picked up one of their old NRS E130s real cheap, maybe it was this one! reading all of the comments here i really admire your attitude about the whole thing but i really think that commanding you all to grab the tree is unforgivable. this is the kind of thing that people with any reasonable experience running whitewater have nightmares about. i totally get stress under pressure and i can think of a million other mistakes in a situation like this that i could have compassion for but grab the tree ain't one of em. very glad to hear that everyone was ok for the most part. watching the video that did not seem like a very probable outcome.i totally thought it was going to have one of those Shamalan endings where you and your buddies turn out to be the two dead women from the beginning
Yes, I have watched a lot of rafting carnage videos too and I believe this is one of the more stressful ones to watch. luckily nobody died that day but there were more than a few people that thought they were going to. A couple of the swimmers in our group coughed up a bunch of water afterwards and one of those guys said he got stuck on a branch under water for a minute but managed to free himself. He is a surfer and credits that experience for why he was able to handle the underwater time as well as he did. I think it was very close to being a much worse situation that day. That particular week there were more deaths on the Kern in addition to the 2 ladies due to the unusually high flow from the unusually wet winter snow melt. There were local news reports just days after our trip citing the higher frequency of casualties that were occurring. I do believe it was an MTA trip as that sounds familiar, but I would have to verify that with my friend who booked us. As for my attitude towards the company it wavers a bit now and then, but I signed the waiver signing my life away just like everybody else that day knowing that things could go wrong. I guess I just didn't expect that almost the entire time would be things going wrong. But at the end of the day somehow, we managed to stay breathing even if it meant coughing up a gallon of water. Obviously, I wouldn't mind if a bigger channel picked this up and used it as a case study. My main purpose in making this video was to show people what they might actually be signing up for. As a father, I can't believe anyone takes their Kids on these trips down the Kern, and if I've prevented anyone from doing that by making this video then I think I've done a service to society. Thanks for watching and leaving such a great comment! Unfortunately, the video never gained enough traction fast enough to warrant making the documentary that I was considering making on it. As you stated somebody probably would have had to die for that to happen and if that's the case then I can live with less likes.
M.R.A. Trip, who where your guides? They had no business being on the Kern especially as guides. Should lose their job over this trip. Glad y'all survived
As a guide of 25 years, I'll throw in my two cents after reading a few of the comments here. Every state has varying degrees of regulations regarding licensing/certifying guides, or no regulations at all. I'm licensed in what are reputed to be two of the more strictly regulated, Maine & New York. I've worked on dozens of rivers up & down the east coast, including many stretches of Class V. I'd like to think that makes me somewhat of an "expert" on the subject. Maybe not. I developed a friendship with a group of guests over the five or six years they'd been coming rafting on The Penobscot. They finally convinced some of their reluctant friends to join them by selling me as such a skilled and trustworthy guide. On all their previous trips none of them had fallen out of my boat but they had seen it happen to others. This trip changed things. At the beginning of one of the big rapids we had a "dumptruck" with everyone falling out except me. I managed to get a few of them back in the boat fairly quickly but had to rely on some of my co-workers to pick up the rest. To my mind, it was all handled pretty well and it was over fairly quickly. No one was hurt beyond a bruise and some scraped knees. That was about ten years ago and I haven't been able to convince any of them to get back on the river with me since. I've had plenty of other guests over the years who didn't feel the trip was complete without a flip or two. It's all a matter of perspective. And just because I'm good at what I do, doesn't mean I don't get caught by surprise once in a while. It just means it happens to me a little less often than it happens to some others. I've had a handful of rough swims and one where I honestly thought I was going to die but I continue to guide. We all have different perspectives. I've no doubt this guide was doing his level best under the circumstances despite a couple questionable decisions. It's very hard to sort it all out from GoPro footage. Cheers to you all. See you on the river!
Thank you for your expert opinion! I know it's easy for us all to play Monday Morning Quarterback and 💩all over the Guide in situations like this and I'm sure the guy probably has had a thousand things or days that went right to this 1 day were almost everything went wrong. But at the end of the day we were all still alive and breathing which means he did his Job well enough under the situation. My hats off to that guy for even having the balls to go down that river as many times as he has with a bunch of newbies and use his experiences to try to ensure that they are still breathing at the end of the day. That's a huge responsibility that I don't think I would wanna take!
I grew up on the Kern, was a commercial guide on this river for several years in high school and college. Watching this was tough. This is on the Upper Kern, it is a VERY ROCKY freezing cold.. long section.. Here is my takeaways....what really made this a difficult and dangerous situation is the length of the rapid and the high water flow.. As I watched the video..I looked for good place for these folks to eddy out and just never saw a good spot..and even if there was, your crew has to listen, stay focused, and paddle hard to catch those eddies with that type of flow.. So I know lots of critics here..but this was a tough spot to be in.. Once you see a boat go over, everyone goes into "rescue mode"..until all the sudden, your own boat is out of control and you are now in danger yourselves. I am not sure if everyone was ok or not, but I sure hope so. People's natural reaction is to swim for the sides and grab a tree or a branch..but 9.9 times out of 10, your better off to stay in the middle, swim the rapid until it is over, and hope you can catch the eddie below the rapid.
It's hard to do anything but ride it down the middle with high flow. Sometimes, you just don't get to make the decision the rive is in charge.
Definitely one of the reasons I was never interested in guiding: there is no guarantee that any of your PEEPS will be competent at using a paddle. Watching that video, the guide was getting next to NO help from much of anyone. It’s a make-it or break-it deal on a river moving that fast in that high of water with NO USABLE BANK, just trees guaranteed to snag you and trap you where you don’t have the strength to free yourself against hundreds of pounds of force from the river…if you don’t have anyone that knows how to bury the blade and actually propel the boat the guide can only do so much. This was not the time or place to test out lily dipping ability. Not in flood-stage class IV cold-ass early season runoff.
@@samsonian Which is why it's a good idea to give your crew of newbies as much training and knowledge as possible BEFORE you get into the shite. I always worked my customers good and hard well in advance of the serious WW so they'd know what to do when I gave them commands, starting with getting the entire blade into the water, following the stroke timing of the guy in front of you and timing your strokes to get the blade into the wave face, etc. Paddling air never got anyone anywhere.
worstswim was on uper kern....500 cfs ......put in above tomestone.... thinking it was powr house.... RIP
Hi John, this is Daren (aka "Bad Day Guy"). My girl and I just came back to MRA, this weekend for another round down the river in the same weekend. Needless to say my nerves were still there and didn't make it in, my girl made a run at it though. I met up with your guide Tim and my guide who flipped the boat Josh, and Tim shared this video with me. Gave me chills watching it, we just came back today to watch it again. Wow, very intense, had no idea about what you all went through and thank you all for doing your best to save my life. All is good, I had a great time running in the rapids twice earlier in the day but, I was basically holding my breath and trying my best not to die to make it to shore later in the day with you all. I have pics from the trip and the group picture of all of us if you don't have it. Great job in the video.
Hi Daren!! So nice to hear from you! Sorry about the "Bad Day Guy" thing. Due to poor audio on the Go Pro, (I wasnt sure on your name, or if you would want it used?) I had to come up with something. I can't believe you went back there for one, and got this from Tim! (same thing on his name) I can't blame you on the nerves, I didnt really want to get back on a Raft to get back across the river after that! but "had to"
I'd maybe do something a little less hairy with the right crew, maybe Catagory 3, but no urge to go there soon if ever. I gotta give it to you for getting back on the Raft (or Horse) that threw you, and getting thrown a 2nd time, and getting on again. And for Self Rescueing after a long, long time in the water. Sorry we couldnt actually save you, but we definetly tried in the midst of our own Perill. Tim was intense and a Bad -Ass and quite frankly one of the only redeeming qualities of that company that day. There was Chaos happening and he seemed to be the only one that knew wtf was going on, while being barked at by a couple young guns that acted like they know shit, but it didnt seem like it. Those guys all have balls the size of grapefruit for doing that stuff all the time. But Big Brains are Better.
So ultimately the guide helped none of the swimmers, failed to corral the capsized raft and wound up flipping in the trees- nice work!
He got hella tips that day!
I think you meant "corral".
Yeah. Driving a raft into trees in a continuous flow like that is a dumb idea. I hope that guide has moved on to a career where his decisions can't put people in obvious danger.
I went rafting this year also and it was an insane year we had class V everywhere and technically you were just lucky to stay alive. That was a crazy ride glad everyone was safe pure luck 🤞
Thank you, and yes 100% !
I've seen some hellacious stupid maneuvers on the Kern but this is one of the best/worst. 14 ways to go wrong and they took every way.
Yeah it was a hell of a day! Thanks for Watching!
Nice footage, hope everyone is well. High-waters can cause utter chaos, always self-rescue and stay away from strainers and entrapments!
Thanks Jon! Yes, all are well aside from a little PTSD around white water. There were a few People that self-rescued that day. And I know all too well about the danger of Strainers after that. We were initially told to stay away from the Trees then in the heat of the moment told to grab on to the Tree. Even though 30' down we could have safely eddied out if we were focused on that.
I am surprised you were able to go down the river that day. Realy inforces the importance of knowing what is in front of you. Glad no one was hurt.
I was so scared just watching the video, man that’s crazy!!
This is the deadliest river in USA 💀💀💀
I’m glad you are all alive
Yeah I still get scared every time I watch it, the FPV is pretty unsettling for me especially since it was my head the camera was attached to. Thanks for watching and the kind words!
The overwhelming majority of that deaths that you see enumerated on the sign at the beginning of this video were NOT from organized whitewater rafting trips like this one, but rather from casual swimmers and beer parties on shore. Someone gets drunk, goes wading into the river on a hot day, slips and falls, then two drunk friends jump in after him/her, and they all get washed downriver and drown. No life jackets and little to no swimming experience, coupled with icy cold water, alcohol, and deceptively strong currents, combine to form the perfect storm to spell D-I-S-A-S-T-E-R. 😢
Where's the full story? Lots to be learned here...
Did this guide just completely choke or what? I understand high water makes everything 10 times harder, but seriously. As a full time guide in Colorado of 19 years I was just wondering if this guide had any plan at all? I mean start with one swimmer, then the next, etc. Plus swimmers generally go faster than the raft so if you are wasting minutes on the swimmer last in line then the guys down river are totally gone. I'm glad everybody is OK. I've had some close calls too, actually on the Kern at high flow. Fast river.
I had a friend get hired out in kernville as a river guide and he had no previous experience.
Agreed....the guide made zero use of his paddlers. Looked like he was trying to move the boat by himself and they had no idea what to do.
After 45+ years guiding, I can honestly say that's the worst guide I've ever seen. Hopefully, he isn't guiding anywhere...
The Upper Kern can be tricky, especially at high water, because it is in a fairly shallow canyon, which gives the river the opportunity to spread out into a lot of brush and trees. At high water, this is NOT a good place for the inexperienced.
Got it...when your completely lost and don’t have a clue what your doing, just find a strainer and flip the raft. Cool
Pretty much, even though you could've paddled off to the side in another 20 yards or so.
I needed to see this. did a class 3 plus on trinity last week and thinking about doing one on kern river, that shit looks scary
I floated Kern 1 time.... that was enough and I had plenty of wounds....
Lol dam... imagine the guide fell off and u guys were still on the crucial desicions u guys would have to make. 2017 was a high water year. I did river boarding the thunder run at 7,000 cfs and it was some scary fun shit but more scary almost couldn't hold on to my board.
where do i sign up
Fucking brutal
That guide was outclassed for that water. What's up Gilky brothers. Its Brandon from Jst
Brandon from J St? Where at on J St. Approx? I know a few Brandons and the one I'm thinking of wasn't on J St.
But yeah, I'm not sure what happened for sure but it wasn't really going well for anyone on that rafting trip. Including the Guide, but people make mistakes in stressful situations probably even more when your in charge of a boat load of Humans, But the more i watch what happened the more I question what would have happened if the guide fell off of the raft? Since I had to pull his ass back in. I saved his ass, and that was his job for me.
@@norefudiatingit between Sultana and campus. 600 block. Lived there from 72 to 90
If you ever wanted to know what not to do on my river watch this video
What Merle Haggard said...never again
Boy those people on the raft were a bunch of lily dippers
Class IV-V like this, continuous, should not be guided.
Too serious a situation to make a jokey video about. If this was outfitters trip there should have been kayakers with the trip.
Thanks Ken, glad you enjoyed it!
Come on. That is a class IV section of the river. The video started at the Wall (camp 3) and is still class IV at flows upwards of 5,000 cfs. You can flip a raft in class III. Anyone who rafts knows it can be dangerous and we are all just in between swims.
Yeah Rick, I'm not saying we didn't know death was a possibility. The giant sign declaring almost 300 deaths, the waivers we had to sign, and the speech before we went pretty much told us that. I'm just trying to let other first timers like myself know the seriousness involved in rafting that river in class IV rapids. I personally can't believe they let kids do this , I Think that you should be at least 18 and in pretty good shape to even attempt this.
They absolutely shouldn't let kids do it. That river is no place for a child when it's running that high.
Music is hideous and not needed
Just like your comment.
I really hate to be the pessimistic, generalized a$$hole, but..wtf were you guys doing in the river? At 3000cfs, that river is considered Class IV/V in the section you ran. I don't care if they made you do some derpy swim test at the park, you had no business being in that river. The Kern River isn't a toy. It's not a game. It's nature and nature is cunty. As SAR, I think anyone who runs the river over 2500 cfs should be required to place $10,000 in insurance or deposit with the Kern and Tulare County Search and Rescue before they even get in the water. The rafting companies are insured- if they lose you, 'meh...they'll be another bus full of people coming up the canyon shortly. Your family loses a member. Is it worth it? Yes, the Kern is always and notoriously dangerous...but every day, for some unbelievable reason, people ignore the fact that they've never rafted before but somehow think they'll tame nature and best the beast. Get yourself a pass to six flags.
Yeah Rocky, You're absolutely right, it is Stupid to go on that river when it's like that. But as you stated, there are busloads of stupid people going in there every day. I think it's just human nature to try to cheat death every now and then as a way to kind of re-shuffle your deck. It definitely makes you appreciate your life a little more and those who are important to you. But I won't be doing anything like that for a while, I've got a pass to Disneyland so my next white water experience will be at California Adventure. Thanks for watching and thanks for your comment!
+CactysPete- you were lucky. Just so you know- camping along the Kern in unmarked areas was suspended in 2017. The politically incorrect truth is that certain cultures were openly defecating in riverside camps and leaving behind so much waste and trash that it was out of control. As a result, the very few free camping areas have become over used and abused.
SAR guys are always the experts....No fines, no Insurance. By the time you guys get there it will be a body recovery from the lake so what do you care.
Too much for a guided trip, obviously. Guided trips need larger margin of safety.There was very little control of situation. I have guided but would not guided the higher class water.
The sound is terrible Can't watch 👎
Thanks! It's cool, I agree that the Sound was terrible on the Camera. Thanks for enduring it as long as you did. And taking the time to leave me this negative comment! It's your honest opinion and I'm open to criticism. So thanks. If I ever figure out a way to boost the Audio from the Camera I will. And UA-camrs will have you to thank for it! So keep up that Negativity! You could change the World!
John Gilkey's Adventures 😀👍
John Gilkey's Adventures a whole paragraph for 1 little negative comment??
That ….music….😖
Why did the guide go into the trees??? That was the kiss of death to that party.
That is some of the worst guiding I’ve ever seen.. LMAO
I would be throwing hands at the guide after this trip
You are a fucktard.
You men are lucky! Killer kern is the nickname!
Terrible guiding. The guide has little control over his boat and the paddlers were also bad at their job.
The Kern River is a serious river with a bad reputation, but is loved by many of river runners and is navigated safely by many rafts and kayaks each season even at high flows (when we are lucky enough to to have them). People who don't respect the power of water and swim without PFD's (life jackets) or think it's safe to tube a river drunk are mostly to blame for that reputation. There have been very few deaths if any involving commercial outfitters. I am a private boater but have been trained by a commercial company on the Kern River and I can tell you from experience they take safety very seriously. If you are going to raft the Kern be sure it's with a reputable company or a competent private boater and understand it is up to the parent to keep their child safe. If you read the waiver and listened to the safety talk, it's not the rafting company who let your child go. It is the parent who after being made aware of the risks decided to sign the waiver and allow their child go, don't blame the outfitter for your poor choice as a parent if those situations you were made aware of, end up happening.
Oh the tales I could tell, a Tulare County deputy shooting a rubber ducky three times to prevent a guy from swimming out and retrieving it at 3200 CFS.
The overwhelming majority of incidents, including fatalities, on the Kern happen at "beer parties" on the lower part of the river, below Lake Isabella. Drunk people, without proper equipment and maybe with some swimming pool toys from Walmart, go into the river and get swept away by the current, which can be deceptively fast. Due to alcohol and hypothermia, they are unable to save themselves, and they sometimes drown.
Why would a company run commercial trips when the water is high enough to be up in the trees/brush, meaning a swimmer couldn't swim to shore without the risk of getting pinned on a strainer? Sketchy.
Money is why. But yes, Sketchy indeed! I personally couldn't run a business that involved the risk of my customers dying but people do.
Oh.. My goodness. Why was the guide not picking up swimmers? Why did he go into the bushes, creating a huge, ridiculous strainer? (You couldn't assume that would happen, but still, why? Looked like an eddy downstream..) No catching eddies or anything. Are those swimmers that were stuck on the side higher up alive? Dead??? What was the boat in front doing? What was the guide from the flipped raft doing? SO many questions. -_-
Man, that was nuts !!
I would say this is required watching for anyone thinking about getting to this kind of thing, so they can see what happens when things go wrong real fast.
Did the long version of this film ever get made ??
I would really like to see that.
Yes it was nuts, and it cured me of my desire to do anymore white water rafting, at least on that river. As for the longer version.. no it never got made, there just wasn't enough interest at the time to warrant my time to make it. Unfortunately there are plenty of Videos of things going wrong on this river. But thanks for watching mine!
@@norefudiatingit Your video is different though, it has a lot more suspense and seriousness than the others. Ok, I understand your reasons here, but should you ever change your mind I would like to be the first to know.
I'm a whitewater enthusiast and a commercial guide and I've gotta say, the river is to be respected, it's infathomably powerful. However, something about the way this rescue was handled does not sit right with me. Why on earth a guide would command his guests to grab on to a tree in swift moving current does not make sense to me. That current was strong, but he could've used ferry angles and lead his guests better, in my own opinion. Granted, when you're in it, you're freaking in it man.
It's too bad this video is all but unwatchable due to whatever that is that you call music drowning out the voices and sounds of the river. And whoever this guide is he seems to have a terrible time keeping his boat pointed downstream. Call me old fashioned but when I was guiding rafts running Cl 4/5 whitewater broadside all the way down was quite frowned upon.
The previous film I just watched had another guide headed for the brush/trees. what gives? I've done the Forks and most of the lower runs (not the Cataracts). Part of the problem is the trees and brush have a chance to grow most of the time and most years, then you get a good water year and much of the banks are lined with those brush strainers.. I'd take my chances rock dodging, lol. Nice to try to save others, but first do no harm.
Not such agood parking space upstream of those trees.
Wow. Just Wow. So thankful you were ok, and thankful that kayaker helped. This will make a great documentary. What about the other raft? All ok? Just shows even when with a professional guide (who did an awesome job), the river is in charge.
Thanks Robert! Yeah everyone got rescued that day eventually, but there was a lot of behind the Scenes Drama and confusion since their resources became overwhelmed. The other rafters (The Swimmers) encountered a lot worse than my boat. Pretty much every one in my group felt like they could have died. Some held under water for extended time, 1 leg pinned temporarily, & 1 Puking up Water afterward. But I'll try to get all those things in the next video, thanks for watching him glad you enjoyed it. Stay dry lol.
Louder music less video please. Delete
not just bad luck but some bad decisions
DT for sure, definitely.
I've rafted on a variety of rivers even some class 4+ rivers but I don't think I would EVER get on the Kern.
This thing looks like it wants to drown you with all those hidden tree strainers and holes. This river looks more dangerous than it is fun/thrilling. Not worth it. I want a high thrill to danger ratio not the other way.
Yes indeed, from what I heard (please don't correct me if I'm wrong) it was running at about a class 5 in sections of the river at the time. We had a very good snowpack that year which was melting like crazy. It might not be as nuts right now as it was then due to the drought, but I'm probably not going to test that theory anytime soon. It sucks because I kind of enjoyed myself there a couple times. I swam in a slower section of that river (still pretty fast) in my 20's with some friends. Even back then the locals warned us that "a lot of folks from L.A. drown in this river every year" But I was a strong swimmer and didn't like people telling me what not to do, so I basically said "Hold my Beer!" Thanks for watching and your great comment!
I sure hope this guide gave up on guiding this day. He didn't belong there as much as all the the customers. He had no control, wasn't using his paddlers at all, kept floating sideways, couldn't catch an eddy, almost fell out, with serious crush potential on that rock, and put a boatload of people into the trees at highwater. Painful to watch, and scary that the company would risk the lives of their guests with a guide like that.
Well I thank you for watching and your comment but I kind of hope that he didn't quit, but that he learned a lot from the experience and has become a much better Guide as a result of it. We all have days like this where nothing seems to go right, but we just need to learn from them, and it makes us better at what we do. I'm not a big fan of quitting in general, unless it's a situation where you are being mistreated or disrespected or it's something that might kill you if you keep doing it. Somebody's got to do this Job and I'm sure it wasn't his first Rodeo, but my Dad always said... "if the horse throws you off you get back on the horse, If it throws you off again you punch it in the nose and get back on again".
WOW...
As a long time guide, now strictly a private boater, I have run rivers at high water and it's always chaos regardless. Not necessarily to me and my boat, but I've pulled lots of swimmers out of the river, even if I'm struggling with the added current. However, I always go back to what my trainers/instructors drilled into me, trees in the river, either downed or standing are your worst nightmare and are something to always, one, be aware of and two, stay away from.
While this clip doesn't show the onshore safety talk prior to launch, when I take a paddle crew down river I spend a good amount of time reinforcing the point that if any swimmer is carried by the current towards trees, actively swim away from them. Another rule that was drilled into my core was that when rescuing other swimmers, your number one responsibility is to keep the passengers in your boat safe. If you fail to do this, it only makes an already bad situation even worse, which is exactly what happened here. Not only did this boat fail to rescue the swimmer, it ended up pinned/semi wrapped against a tree.
What about the guy that stayed behind to drink 🥤 BEER
He lived on to drink many more beers!
Was this the upper or lower Kern? Bellow the dam or above?
Upper.
Is there a longer film about this day on the Kern?
I’ve been water rafting 5 times next year will be my sixth and one time there was a zone 5 and the water was high but we didn’t flip
That's great, I could see how it could be fun since I did have some fun, but that was my first time and probably my last since I'm a Father of 3. I still enjoy some adventures just probably not ones where I might drowned. I can think of a lot more ways I'd rather die if I were to be killed. But if you've done it 5 times your probably getting experienced at it. I just don't like being in a boat full of rookies in high waters. I'd possibly do it again if I could pick my crew and do something a little more chill. But you have Fun and be safe.
Where the other video?
Did anyone die
From what I understand, 2 ladies bodies were recovered the morning of our trip, from the day before. Luckily nobody died that day, but within around a weeks time 5 or 6 people lost their lives.
That is pretty darn scarry to hear. You all were so darn lucky that day.
Never use numbers when giving commands. Can’t stand to watch a guide go give me to forward now give me two more when all they had to say was all forward. It fucks with their minds and conditions them to only paddle a few strokes.
Interesting comment, never really crossed my mind but makes sense. I know my friends and I discussed how it didn't always seem like everyone on our rafts were paddling as much or as hard as others. And also how weight distribution or even strength distribution wasn't really discussed or considered before they were like okay everybody get in. I know when I captain my boat weight distribution is on my mind and enforced regardless of feelings or who wants to sit together.
Is this The Thunder Run?
Honestly I can't remember at the moment, Ones mind has a way of blocking out some details of Craziness to make room for new ones.
They put in at The Wall. It's downstream of Thunder Run.
Just saw this is the Facebook group: Bad whitewater advice lmfao 🤣