How to Pick the Best Engine for your Experimental Aircraft
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- Опубліковано 26 сер 2024
- Choosing the right engine for your Experimental homebuilt aircraft is always a challenge. There are many choices in the 80-150 HP range from various vendors - both well known name brands and several much smaller manufacturers. All of these engines are quite expensive and there is plenty to learn about their technical features prior to purchasing. This video provides a systematic approach to evaluating your engine candidates so that you feel a little more comfortable in making the big decision for your homebuilt project
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Well done video. Lots of very insightful tips. One that I didn't hear is the one that threw me on my build. Cruise RPM and TBO. I'm used to low speed engines like the old Continental 65. When I found that the engine I had planned on using on my homebuilt project cruised at something north of 5000 rpm (automotive engine with a geared prop), I got very cold feet. When I started asking about the TBO, everyone I talked to just tried giving me the run-around. I asked other manufacturers of similar systems about their TBOs, and everyone had a different story. As I continued looking into it, I found that nobody really knew, and they were just making things up. Buyers and builders beware!
Good points, Jon!
A couple additional points to consider are availability of a firewall-forward (FWF) kit (from engine manufacturer, distributor or kit manufacturer), and resale (used) value of the engine.
Seen an old video of this old guy in texas, had a briggs n stratton 20 hp lawnmower engine in his lil yellow homebuilt, damn thing went 130 mph and got incredible gas mileage (or rather very very low gallons per hour)
I would love to know your thoughts or, better yet, see a Homebuilt Help video on the subject of the Czech produced Verner radial 4 stroke engines. Their weight is comparable to equivalent Rotax models and as they are slow turning engines, their prop efficiencies are high and torque values are very high, and no gear reduction unit required. And, if you ever heard one running, its low throaty sound is music to the ears. Fairly successful in Europe, in the US, there are a few now flying.
Do consider weight! Calculate for each option your power to weight ratio when installed. Power to weight drives take off and climb performance. Also consider C of G. An airplane with a powerful heavy engine/transmission/prop combination which you cant fly without ballast in the back is inconvenient and negates the take off performance advantage of the extra power
I'm leaning toward a hot-rodded "name brand" engine. You can buy a used Rotax 912 for $2500 to $4000 complete. Overhaul it yourself. (It's not magic. It's just an engine.) Buy the Edge Performance turbo, big bore, etc. You end up with more than 914 Turbo performance for less than the cost of a new 912.
Great points. Thank you.
After a lot of research, (HP for the $$$),(Power/Torque),(Talking to others),(FWF),(ect..)But the trigger for me was a engine conversion company was in the same state as me and less the 2 hours away, I have emailed and called for tech support, and got answers the same day, also just stopped by just see what his shop was into for the day, sometime fly in or drive in.....
Great video John. Thankyou.
My son and I put Whipple screw type super chargers on our “go-fast” boat. On the Dino the torque curve went to near peak at rpm’s as low as 3000 rpm. We would put aggressive props and have no problems getting on plane where other boats with equal peak HP but lower torque RPM not get on plane. We had one set of props that would blow out if you throttled up too quickly. You had to give it half throttle to get on plane then slowly work your way up in rpm’s letting the prop dictate
At 275 lbs., you would have to add a lot of ailerons trim if I flew in that passenger seat!
Thanks Jon. Keep the videos coming. Please support Jon by becoming a Patron. It’s well worth the investment.
Good point about the treadmill. Pilots should be lean and mean.
Boy I'm glad I stumbled upon this video! Really inciteful.
That’s a good explanation. In my opinion weight is the main aspect of a good choice. For example: Lycoming weighs 145 lbs (65 kg), the adapted VW weighs 198 lbs (92 kg). This is a big difference and has a big influence on aircraft performance.
Excellent video. I’m doing what you prescribe with choosing an engine for the plane I’d like to build. However, the biggest concern I have is with the PSRU and the inherent issues that go with it such as harmonics and resonant frequency feedback to the gearbox. The horror stories with catastrophic failures are out there. So what is the risk? How do we work around or thru this? What are engine manufacturers doing to test and validate an engine with a given gearbox? What can a pilot do to avoid damaging harmonics? These are just a few of my concerns and I can’t seem to find answers...it’s almost like nobody wants to talk about it.
excellent video full of learning. thank you so much. hope to see more of your video in the days to come
Attendance at a major airshow could allow direct access to operators of any engine type you may have an interest in.
And if not a Lycoming, Continental or Rotax, I’d want to see at least at 3 examples that have 1,000 hours or more on them with no major parts replacement.
Another point is, which engine surround you, for a beginner it can be helpful to have one that is a lot use by your pilot friend, it help for maintenance and advice. Dont go with iphone if all your friend are with android, or the opposite, except if you like adventure ;-) Thanks for all your sharing, love it!
hey John, here's what I did with my cub-ex2. I sold the engine and the fuel tank installed battery packs in the wings 60kw electric motor took up 1/5 the nose so battery packs there and in the tail to balance it out with batteries both high and low for and aft I got an excellent balance got my bubble centered just below the center of the wing, I went with the Dynon sky-view avionics, as it interfaces smoothly with my augmented glasses by aero, I did design and install empilates and a Robinson s-stol kit all my control surfaces are servo controlled complete autopilot. and huge wheels yes I put a lot of extra in this build but it is experimental so I am experimenting. mind you the directions for the airframe were followed most the way(structurally stronger) oh I reinforced my landing gear attachment points with the battery trays.
And, you now get a whopping 90 minutes of flight time and a minimum 4 hour recharge!
Great advice, thank you!
Great clip! From an excellent channel. Thank you!
Hello Jon Fantastic video Im embarking on a project soon and am extremely pleased to have found your videos they to me are excellent thanksyou so much!!!
Good info.
Thanks
And which one is the best engine? Any advice for me?
Great video. I'm leaning toward the Aeromomentum 1.5 L 117 H.P. for my KR2. Hopefully I'll be at that point later this year or early next year. They've had great success in airboats.
You have an inherent ability ( God given ) to transfer your knowledge to others. It would have been a great service to public that you open a shop selling and maintaining engines. However, my question is : for a ultralight trikes ( NorthWing, Evolution, ...) should I use a 2 stroke or a 4 stroke engine ? Or, like you say, it doesn’t matter. Pick an engine with highest horse power for highest performance ?
very nice once again John; keep up the great work! :)
I am designing my own aircraft full systems it's wing span is 16f nose to tail 20.5f and with 15 cubic feet of fuel capacity what is the best possible engine for a speed of about 200 to 300miles per hour
Thanks very much for the information
i need an engine for a 1000 miles journey but must be able to bear atleast 5,500 max weight over all. What kind of engines is able to stand such.
Cont. how rapid you throttled up. This sounds like a good after market “add on” as described in this piece. The Whipple product and service was excellent. I don’t know if they ever did aircraft. They did marine and automotive.
Woooooooow. Sir please give me all guidelines about this airplane please give me.
How Many select the propellor size for 4 cylinder inline engine to direct drive.
Who makes the best Chevy LS/LT conversions?
"Contact 3 builder/pilots flying behind the engine" - I think that's forgetting those who fly in front of their engines. Don't forget about those pushers! ;)
Also thought like that
hahaha how take contact my country not have any experience and home builders, and same engine what i looking my project in other country. im has moved out of homecountry retiree and have time now build own plane and no can contact any people no have planes and engines.
This video is relevant to my interests
I am by no means an experienced pilot or builder, but shouldn't the concern with engine weight be about the moments those extra 20 pounds exert hanging off the nose? 20lbs of engine way out there on the nose does a lot more to mess with weight and balance than an extra 20lbs of pilot almost directly under the CG. Or am I way off base here?
Not off base, but I think you may not be considering how simple it is to adjust aircraft balance by simply changing the engine mount length from the firewall or moving a battery or similar object forward or aft. Once in balance, weight is weight.
@@HomebuiltHELP and you cant as a pilot just stick your spare tire in the cargo area lol.
Thank you!
Great Video!
Nicely done and good advice. Now I wish there was a similar video, by aircraft type (eg, Powered Parachutes) for selecting the right engine. I think these engine suppliers need to step up to supply not only the engine, but the entire engine PACKAGE (mounting, exhaust, cooling, electrical, etc.). The engine supplier who does that, at a reasonable price, will get the market, including large replacement market for aging Rotax 503s and 582s.
Hirth has that covered but pricier than hell!
That would require the supplier "to know" just what the hell "experimental" aircraft you are building, ie, a custom aircraft. How would you expect the engine supplier to know that information? And furthermore, the "builder", YOU, can add personal custom details to your build. It's no fucking wonder these kits are Soo expensive. Someone has done the "homework" for you. Here is your cookie cutter kit Sir. Good Luck!
@@Pork-Chopper If Rotax can do it, so can other engine suppliers.
@@MrHanowski I can bet any amount of money you won't find them. Hmm, let's see, you want to outfit your Custom Piper Cub as in, ie, a lookalike kit, you build with a Mitsubishi engine, but wait, the next guy is building an overwing Beechcraft looking thing, an he wants to put in a Volkswagen engine in it!
Tell me what company can come up with a "complete materials list" for all those Frankenstein aircraft folks are conjuring up, some using Chevy V8 engines.
Look at some of the helicopter build kits, they are expensive and they don't come with some of the special tools you have to purchase separately if you want to do the job right, and there are other materials that YOU purchase yourself, interior fabrics, or leather, primers n paints, and other trim that you may have to fabricate yourself, like trim rings around the control sticks for the rubber or leather boots you install and give it your own custom touch. If you're asking for a turnkey package, just buy a new or used airplane that's already put together n then get an engine package for it. But I digress, here we are talking about "Do It Yourselfers", doing a good part of the build themselves, fabricating as they go along, to keep things AFFORDABLE! And even then it gets to be an expensive hobby.
@@Pork-Chopper Recall, my original post specified "by aircraft type" specifically Powered Parachute. Those typically use 503 or 582 Rotax engines mounted to a flat engine plate. Same for fixed wing planes with these same Rotax engines. With Rotax leaving the 2-cycle engine market, there will be many looking for a drop-in replacement for their 503 or 582. These are the existing applications I'm taking about that alternative engine manufactures should support as a package offering.
You are the best
great video, thank you
Just out of curiosity, did you follow your own guidelines (especially talking to no-kidding flying customers) when you chose to go with Viking? Just curious, as I followed similar analytical approach and put Viking and Jan to the side. I was pretty sold with Mark and Aeromomentum, and looked into even a Jabiru3300. I decided on something else, but that is besides the point. Thanks!
Looks can be deceiving! This is the 2nd engine in this aircraft and will not be the last. I change engines as often as possible for the purpose of personal evaluation. Economics gets in the way of making this happen more frequently.
So what is the process for letting th faa know when you change an engine?
Love the way of your teaching Sir one Qusition 🙋 can we use car or bike engine in ultralight aircrafts ?
Yes, but don't
Yes there are many accomplished well known pilots flying motorcycle and automobile and even show machine engines in their airplanes. Steve Henry comes to !and the multi year winner of the famous STOL drag competition used a Yamaha Snow Machine engine in his plane. Google Steve Henry and or Auto Conversion Engines for Airplanes to find plenty of useful information.
I'm thinking about getting into flying (always wanted to, even joined the Air Cadets in my teens) but am on such a seriously small budget that my only choice would be to try and use a car or bike engine so I hope that I can find the spec's I need and a design that allows for something I can get in a breakers yard... I just got rid of a 1.6l engine that was amazing in my Mazda but don't think it will be light enough to make an air craft from anyway.
I know I have a lot of reading to do before I even put a spanner to a nut so don't expect any quick replies here about this.
Thanks for asking this qiestion 'Simple Life', you made me less afraid to comment on this video.
NO auto engines. Airplanes will make that auto engine run at rpm's they normally don't use. NO car engines.
@@mmichaeldonavon thank you for the answer one request for your next video log you explain what is deference car engines and airplane engine Andy why Zenth aircraft or some other using Honda Accord or Honda fit engine ??
If you buy an experimental aircraft that is already built and wanted to change to a different brand or size of engine, would a normal A&P know how to replace the engine?
I’ve read that an A&P can be just as stumped as a non-gear head if asked to do an annual inspection on an experimental aircraft they’ve never seen before; is this true with installing an engine, even a Continental/Lycoming?
I wanna build this airplane. Sir give me all guidelines about this airplane
Eggenfellner comes to mind, sold a lot of subaru FWF packages and walked away from all the customers, started selling hondas
Yes he is delivering.............delivering engines that have come from wrecked Honda fits cars............wrecked cars with engines that have no history...........except a history that includes when the owners teenage son borrows the car and rat bags the engine............rat bag , meaning over revving the hell out of it , dumping the clutch from a high rev , overheating the engine , etc...........who wants an engine from a wrecked car with no history and no idea how many tough miles were put on it..........roll the dice and take your chances..........no thanks............a quality auto conversion starts with a new engine block (aero momentum) , or rebuilding an engine with all new parts and proper engineered procedures (Corvair conversions by SPA and FlyCorvair) ............nothing speaks reliability like a new engine or a rebuild that you just did yourself with sound technical guidance.........you do not want an engine that has the owner doing the research and development in control software , instead of the seller ............an engine should enter the market with no bugs from its release ............a buyer should not be de-bugging a control system for the seller...........he should be enjoying flying a bug free engine and not doing R&D for the seller..........Aeromomentum sells zero time , new engines with a proven control system............a Corvair converted properly with a good old Marvel-Schebler aircraft carburetor is my choice..
FAA Inspector you seem to always have an opinion, but nothing based on facts. precisely what it is opinion. Everything stated is actually 100 percent false- Viking offers new and slightly used and every engine you can get every amount of information for. Over 500 customers and a lot of those flying successfully with 600 plus hours.plus you get the most up to date modern technology available.
@@faainspector9699 Except he also offers new engines. As always the choice is yours. And checking a used engine's health is not difficult. If you can build an airplane you can check an engine.
I was wondering what engine is in the 701 behind you in the video?
It is not a 701 :) It is a CH-750 Cruzer. The engine is a Viking 130
Can you have too much horsepower? What if I build an engine within weight spec that makes more horsepower than "reccomended" 🤷♂️
Well done
What about types, and prop blade numbers to be matched with engine. And how about the
point of air vacation ?
Referring to cavitation, like you can get in boat props.
Lots of good sense there Jon - but 20lbs on a treadmill...?? You should speak your mind more often - it's useful! PS helpful engine videos from Oshkosh, thanks.
Very useful, but no mention of hp vs mpg.
Covered in the video, try watching it again.
u r sooo healpfull
Best video
Can we swap automobile engine for homebuilts
Rohit Sorte they have to be converted, but yes. Keep in mind, you’ll find they aren’t as reliable as an engine that is built for an aircraft however. There’s some study that was done regarding LSAs and Experimental aircraft going down more often with a converted auto engines too. But literally anything can be done, it just depends on your budget
@@paulnmarshall7504 But this engines represent here in demonstrations are also modified from auto engine base. Basically due to low atmospheric pressure on high altitude intake process has to be pressurised
Hi , grandfather ,I'm from India how can I get the engine??????
Very good info here, thank you sir.
Very good explanation !
1.5x ftw
did any one has experience with honda engines ?
Patagonia Bush Pilots You my want to check Viking aircraft engines.
mitshubishi colt turbo engine 1.5cc 150hp. 2000hours service interval.economic
civic 1.5 turbo 180hp sodium filled valve,8000hrs service interval.
How will cost a small enjine get 90 hp
2000-35000 many prize have, what need and what want usede,new, rebuild, custom, high powered. etc.
Why not make it easy go to a car junk yard and get a V8 and rebuild that into a race engine and mount that to a airplane. Then get a propeller made from hard steel that would have 13 blades in the circle, then each blade at 14 wide for maximum pulling and a very high air flow. When done it be the king in the sky in the airplane
Hi great insite.. Question I am looking to add a ULpower 390 to a Sling 4. Want to know how I can get the CG recalculated and your thoughts on the engine vs a rotax 914?
What happened to reliability?
I think he covered that handily in the video?
It's very simple, if you want to build and to fly in a shortest amount of time, get a traditional aircraft engine, including Rotax. If you want to tinker around forever, get an unconventional engine.
Isn't tinkering forever one of the benefits of a homebuilt?
Yes that is a benefit but most people want to fly instead of getting grounded because the auto engine is unreliable.
But auto engines are not unreliable. Thousands are flying today.
While failing to admit that just recently the Rotax 912's were grounded for weeks due to a manufactured faulty exhaust valve ......SMH.......always One in every crowd
@@evopwrmods rotax engines have today all ower prizes and no anythin k better than many others, vigink,honda,etc many new better engine have lot cheapen than shit rotax
Rotac Radial-any thoughts vs inline?
who doesnt love the sounds of a radial engine.I am big fan of inline engines( i think horizontal might fall in line here aswell) they have 25% less moving parts make more torque, and have less vibrations than a V configuration.wonder how radial's compare on the dyno? With my love of old harley engines i have often wondered how hard would it be to convert and old kunklehead or panhead to a radial configuration!ua-cam.com/video/p6BNy21RkbY/v-deo.html www.kitplanes.com/experimotive-7/
Step 1. Find a giant old detroit V8
Step 2. Install dry sump kit
Step 3. Figure out how to make the rest work for flight
Step 4. VRRRRRRAAAAAAWWWWWWWWMMMMMM
There are those of us who are happy to just fly and don't need rocket performance.
I believe with some plywood and a Honda engine ,i'll build my own plane
I really like the UL power aircraft engine 6 cylinders with 200 horsepower !!! :)))
DAIVIET NGUYEN it has only 180hp
I would have included Wankels - turbo or not, in your list of engines.
If you are going there then why not steam engines?
You have to be stupid (or suicidal) to put a Wankel engine in a plane... way too unreliable
Why in hell do you want to approach VNE while cruising with engine power ???
Yup, that would be dangerous......
Please, modern engine only: we need engines air-cooled and with injection
Why not water cooled? Just asking.
Step 1:
Horsepower Requirements: 1900
Speed: 412 kts at 21,000 ft
Step 2:
Daimler-Benz DB 603E-1
no other options
Step3:
Company no longer exists / no engines in production or for sale
Step 4:
Not a single one of these engines is flying... or even running
Great videos
I own a rans S10 and trying to get insurance all was cool up till they asked engine make and model
NO!!!! We will not insure you
So I asked would revmaster or a aerovee motor the okay
NO!!! It must be a 4 cycle and aircraft based engine.
They said yes to a rotax 9 series engine
But I don't have 20k laying around
I don't know where to go from here
This is one of the reasons I'm building my own plane. As a builder of both air frame and engine your accountability goes way up in the system of how this world operates. If the rules were slightly more liberal I wouldn't even go for a pilots license since my desire is only back country Stol low and slow flying. I would suggest join up some of the flying forums to find people that have experience in this same area of insuring your plane referring to which engines are accepted. Message boards and forums will be a great way to communicate with someone with similar issues. Good luck
You didn’t mention electric, the future of engines
Electric or Battery Powered ? ...... I hear ya. It's in our future but unfortunately not just around the corner just yet. But in the next 10 years the airplanes will have a sizeable noticeable amount of Battery Powered Aircraft for sure.
Can't I just call you 3 times 😃
Make 2 of them,,,,,, "collect" calls!
HP=$
looks like Steve Jobs"lunar round" glasses