The Horse with NO GO!
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- Опубліковано 13 чер 2012
- This horse would not go forward at all, even with a crop or whip. The method I used for this horse will work for any horse who does not go forward or is non-responsive to leg. He was happily trotting and cantering within a week from this video. Please note, closed caption and translation now available. Just hit the cc button and choose your language.
- Домашні улюбленці та дикі тварини
Finally someone's making a video with an ACTUAL no go horse👏
i hate how almost every horse training video is always with a mostly good horse so you dont know if it actually good
To bad this is one of her more recent videos (from 11 years ago) and we don't have a follow up. :(
This is my horse. I bought him when he was 12 years old and had been owned by Panamanian cowboys who only knew how to force behavior with pain. He would rear when the cinch was tightened. Now, 2 years in to training, and a lot of ground work, he finally has some trust in people. However, he started to slow and no go just like the horse in the video. My Dressage friends say, take out the whip, but that will only re-inforce the history that he is used to. Thank you for this encouraging video.
This woman was generous enough to share this video with her humane training techniques & so many negative comments ...
Emily Corwith - Well, it is pure crap, isn't it? What other kind of comments can you expect.
Unless this horse is older than 20 y.o. all it needs is some exiting, interesting, athletic, horse-like exercise.
Thank you, I'm glad you're enjoying my methods. I'm pretty sure I'm not as well known because I don't sell any gimmicks, only education, and don't advocate quick fixes. There's nothing fancy about calm and quiet!
Where have you gone Mea?
It's refreshing to see some quality horsemanship. I've been training horses since I was a child and the lady in this video has got real feeling for a horse, good work.
Unfortunately the horse world is full of ignorant people who are all to willing to give their ignorant comments. These ignorant comments are as annoying as flies.
I agree! Also, it is probably because of the ignoramuses that you refer to, that this poor horse is the way he is. This woman is wonderful, and we need more people like her. I work with shutdown, abused dogs and the milestones are small and patience is imperative, but the reward, and feeling of accomplishment is heartwarming, to say the least.
🤣
To the "back seat drivers" or "Monday morning quarterbacks..." Go ahead, break out those spurs or lunge whips you bought to "conquer" this happy, tail-swishing, relaxed horse. Add a dash of ignorance, a slew of "how-to" videos, a shanked twisted bit & that's your recipe for disaster! There's nothing wrong with this horse/rider! It's a simple demonstration video; which is well-done & clearly explanatory! Learn from the lesson & appreciate those of us brave enough to put ourselves out there 4 U !
After thousands of hours spent riding horses for 45 years, I am pleased to find on UA-cam people of a kindred mind. I'm grateful she took her time and effort to share this special knowledge in a videotape. This lady's methods are the foundation to building a simpatico relationship with a horse. MEA is a new phrase to me but it appears to be the successful one that I and my horses have been following for decades. Thank you.
You have a soothing voice
Ohh i was so dissapointed to see that there is no sequel to this.. This was very good vid, we have horse just like this.
Everyone in the horse world has a different way of doing things. There is no single answer. All horses need to be treated differently, just like we do. So who are you all to say she is doing it wrong? This horse clearly responds to the patience and devotion this woman has. He is in no pain. She works out his distress to the point of relaxation. This woman is brilliant, patient, and passionate. None of you in disagreement have delivered any proof of your methods, so don't preach here.
Very competent and sympathetic approach to a poor horse, who had made bad experiences with humans for sure.
how do u know he had bad experiences? looks like he just got away with ummm doing nothing!
This has been one of the very BEST videos for clarity, content , and usefulness. Thank you so very much for sharing , it proved so helpful for me.
This horse would try the patience of a saint. To me he acts like a very intelligent horse who has gotten sick and tired of people hanging on his mouth. (Dressaged to death? Flash nosebands?) It's to his credit that he hasn't resorted to dangerous behavior, instead decided hey I'll just stand here until they give up and get off. lol As he realizes he has someone on him who actually knows how to ride and gives him his head, he's happy to cooperate. All horses have different personalities and need different handling. I'm thinking a harsher approach would only have made THIS horse more resentful. No doubt would have gotten the job done, but ultimately would have ruined the attitude of a nice horse and who wants to ride a sour horse? Nice job, Lady whoever you are.
took the words out of my mouth,looks like he spent lime as a lesson horse ,in a school,I teach & am very small n thin so I can ride our ponies & they all get schooled weekly ,I rotate days off friends go out together & if there not enough ponies n horses for for ppl coming in looking for a lesson unlike other schools I wont pull animals in from there day off for the extra cash ,not like we don't need it but there happiness is key,the starter ponies listen to my voice command & will walk,trot n canter when I ask so its great for learners who need there balance worked on but walk to a little canter at the end of the lesson leaves most kid's in love with riding,I have a very different style of teaching ,I free lance in the Co Kildare area but can travel after October ,I specializes in kids or adults [Adults will take longer ]who had a fall & afraid to get back up[if you're kid isn't riding after 2 lessons I'll only charge for 2 very reasonable rates,I'm not in a school for 2 months but the best pony to start with is the pony that the kid fall off in the first place which i will ride for a week first so i know what I', working with & what can be improved
I would agree. Alot of mouth licking. Very uncomfortable about the bit. Why not try bitless? They train the owner
He's like a robot, maybe to much "natural horsemanship"? This NH-sectarians should take classes in horse psychology - but I guess, the are happier, to break a horse and feel like heroes... )
@@brittnyhawk8633 Mouth licking does not equal aggravation at the bit. To me it looked like he was thinking about this new process, not the usual 'kick and pull' most would resort to.
@@brittnyhawk8633 The licking and chewing happens when a horse comes down from a moment of stress, even mild stress. They get a little dopamine release at the same time, too, which is handy because it helps to positively reinforce their learning.
This is why I really wish I could have my own horse. I love and appreciate every chance I get to ride other peoples or lesson horses... but what I really long for is to have the chance to work patiently with a horse (no time limit), really get to know that particular horse's likes and dislikes, and learn to work with them as the woman in this video does.
EXACTLY!
I want that, too! Just to be able to spend quiet time and bond completely with one, that is my dream! I think I could even improve my riding that way, just being able to practice whenever I wished to and focus on the little things I struggle with...
I just want that bond and friendship more than anything, though!
Finally someone who has some common sense!!
Watching this video was such a pleasure. I love the way she works with the horse, so gentle and insightful.I hope I can do this with my horse. Thank you !
Love this she's so patient and gentle this is how I like to see horses being treated the right way of training😊
Nice! This is exactly the way it should be done. Not only with abused horses, but with any horse you get to ride or train. Great job.
Your videos are amazing and so much better on the horse. No whip, slap, or anything just great communucation and horsemanship. Thank you =)
So good to see. I was so frustrated with my horse doing exactly that and everyone telling me he needs to be hit with a whip and I told them he doesn’t, something is not right. And they did hit him and he bucked on the place he stood! So I started doing what you’re doing there and everyone laughed but now he’s walking perfectly fine 🥹
I feel stupid not having a long kind comment but here's mine:
He's so pretty!
I do exactly the same method- and have had huge success with the ponies and horses I have worked with- including my daughters very stubborn gypsy cross appy- she is now learning neck reining and is very forward now compared to her initial responses. I got her unhandled- and I mean completely unhandled except being thrown on a truck and brought to me- and she was shut down and very aggressive and dominant- didnt want to move forward to even lead- so I can testify that this method works- it requires extreme patience and calm responses from the trainer- but is far more effective than the whip.
I enjoyed this video- having the same problem with my horse. I prefer to be positive and appreciate any advice. The trainer seems very gentle and patient. That is important.
If you think that so nice as you can see the horse is scared and if you could see she is pulling the reins were it hurt his mouth how would you if you were to get your mouth ripped off
nora buntin there is no fear exhibited from that horse. ZERO
@@jhawkfarm3944 maybe not scare but that horse is clearly annoyed, look at its ears and tail
I'm pretty sure that you could rescue an abused horse. Train it HUMANLY and still have people say you are abusing the horse. Smh people
Floyd’s attitude 😂😂😂 that is so true though
@CCi C sm
Well done, reward for the "try"!😁
@CCi C no, you ARE being a hypocrite! Horses adore praise! Even if it means some work first!
CCi C do u know the meaning of humane? By train them humanly that means praising them and showing them what u want them to do. Not beating them.
Completely incredible how many ignorant people are out there! Good horsemanship requires a balance of firm leadership and understanding but equally important are patience and repetition. This video shows a slow progress but she is teaching/programming the horse to WANT to do the job, not be forced to do it. Quick results aren't always the best results. Equally it is clear that she understands this horse has a genuine problem and is 'shutting down' when it's being ridden. I think it's a great piece of horsemanship!
Thank you for your gentle sensible ways.
Stop bashing her people. She got the result without being unfair like so many of the videos I have seen, she kept her body calm, and understands pressure and release. She did not get results immediately, but she just proved that you do not need to force, just like with dogs, but can choose reward instead.
She can do far more with a little time then most people, and the horse will respect her willingly, unlike most of you no doubt if you do not support this way of doing things. Yes, her form wasn't perfect but she got the job done well.
She didn't pull on his mouth any more then a trainer trying to force him to move. The horse should really not be ridden, but she must work with what she gets, and getting some exercise might just build him back up a little. I agree that a Chiro and massage might help, but he is also always going to be in pain moving even at pasture just being a horse, so getting him to be active when he agrees with it is not terrible. besides that do you really think he was forced? he was supposedly "concrete" before -this means that people were tyring to get him to move before and failed- he decided to move willingly...
Thank you so much for this video! I came here looking for examples of people working with horses that won't go. This is exactly what I have been doing with a horse I currently have in for training. Completely shuts down when you are in the saddle. Good to know that I am on the right path and just need to keep my patience going strong :)
Did I work ?
This video is wonderful! Someone, IMO, mentally broke the horse down. Made the horse hate and dread going for a ride. Plain and simple. There's no lameness; no hoof issues; don't look into it deeper. This woman already had the vetted and had other experts out to check the horse. She worked with him, extensively, on the ground, as she mentioned. There are a lot kids commenting, who, "think," they know everything, but, haven't got to know a horse, deeper, than just sit and ride. This woman is taking the time to learn the language of horses. This video is very helpful, for some of us, who connect or want to connect with our horses. Please, go back to watching your kiddy videos, and stop thinking you know everything. It's really annoying.
I understand he's been vetted but something is clearly not right with this horse. It may be neurological, but I'm leaning more towards his back being the problem. His sacrum and pelvis are too disjointed to be passed off as normal, his posture is unusual, the constant tail swishing, and his face is taught, a clear sign of pain in horses. No vet is perfect and along the line someone clearly missed something. I'm no vet by any means but one glance at this horse shows he's not feeling 100% and I find it hard to believe that no one sees it. I also doubt he was born with it, as he apparently used to be very light on the leg. Perhaps his condition worsened? Horses are willing, easy going creatures when they are in a sound mind and his reluctance to even take a step seems a red flag to me.
Thank you. You’re very patient and kind. I appreciate your uploading this for the benefit of others.
i don't like all these negative comments, each horse and rider is different and any kind contact is good. too many know it alls here! do you think she wants your advice? she is a lovely lady, paitence is a virtue!
A am a Pro trainer and am here to say I wouldn't change a thing that you did with this particular horse. Great job and excellent video. :)
Dianne Sommerfeld cubtractor
I certainly agree with you when you say that some trainers would disagree with your training techniques, but I can explain why they might do so. Today everyone is seeking 'instant results', so they resort to whatever means possible to hasten the process. Whether we realize it or not, each and every time we saddle our horses up and leave the barn, we are giving him some kind of lesson. No doubt some would suggest that you use the sharpest and most painful spurs possible, and then add a severe whip to further enforce your demand, then if the result is not instant enough, try using a small electrical device. No doubt one could get a horse to move by using these methods, but we must then ask "What did my horse LEARN from this experience?" He has learned to HATE any and all pain, plus a good deal of animosity toward humans in general. In other words, one has only succeeded in making a bad problem even worse. I fully admire your techniques and hope every viewer will learn a great deal from you. Someone once asked me how I MADE my 17.2 Holsteiner stallion do a certain movement. Without a moment's hesitation I replied, "I cannot MAKE an 1400 pound horse do anything! I merely ask him in a very kind way, and if that is not enough, I continue to ask over and over, making the correct way easy for him and making the wrong way difficult. In essence, this is exactly what you are doing, and it is obvious that it works well. Keep up your great efforts.
How about asking him to walk without kicking him by moving him left or right and if he balks---- hopping off and lunging him at a trot or canter, then getting on and asking for the walk again by turning or a slight squeeze (no kicking).
He has his rider buffaloed.
I love what you say about the horse's reward being release, and all the patting being unnecessary. I say this all the time! Great video, wonderful approach.
What a lovely kind and clear lesson for this horse. Thank you for posting it.
I love your approach! Thank you for posting all of these wonderful, informative videos!
Wow, I'm amazed at all the comments that think tail swishing only means pain. Where was that learned? I may not be an owner of horses, but having studied with a farrier (who studied and graduated from a school with equine vets), and then handling brood mares, foals, yearlings, stallions and boarders as a dream job, equine riding lessons and went to school where we did a brief coarse on studying behavior, I can confidently say tail swishing is usually showing irritation of some kind (flies biting, discomfort, OR annoyed at what is being asked or done). At several points the horse stood with all 4 feet planted firmly on the ground, if any of those legs had lameness that wouldn't happen. How many have actually tried handling a cat or dog that doesn't want you to do something? Didn't they seem really rigid to you? That would be what the horse is doing - resisting! While I may not like the bit, she is doing a great job. Pressure, release and timing! I see far too many videos that are too much about a fast change than slow and Consistent progress. Slow way is the fast way with all training methods that I'm aware of concerning a variety of animals. Love her calm manner regarding this horse, a demeanor that even the most hyper of horses can benefit from.
It's liver pain that is causing spine pain and locking him up. He has all the signs for it, not just swishing the tail. I wonder if the horse is still alive. Very sad. She is very patient, but the horse is in to much pain to even act up.
SEFox oh people are... well yeah you know xD
It’s the same with dogs. People things as soon a dog swift his tail they’re happy.. but no they are excited. It can be happiness but also fear or uncertainty
Lots of experts helping you out! I think you've done an excellent job, and I don't see any lameness. I appreciate your patience, and you've done a great job of demonstrating how well that works. I don't know why you're getting the needlessly antagonistic remarks, but I guess that's entertainment for some.
I am so glad I found this video. I am saddle training a young horse who does not want to move. Going to take these techniques and work her this way. Super happy and a SUPER trainer!
Excellent presentation and sound advice - Thank you
Nice demo, I learned this technique from studying a John Lyons exercise book quite a few years ago and for all the doubters, this really works very well. My seemingly lazy horse who would only *go* if you carried the threat of a whip became very light to the leg and I never needed to reinforce my leg with punitive force or carry a whip after we "re" learned going from leg this way.The release of pressure (stopping the irritation) is something so many riders are never taught . . ..it's amazing how well the horse responds, it makes the lesson simple and very clear to the horse.
Elmhorse Lewis i
Elmhorse Lewis i
This is what I call tremendous horsemanship !
Thank you for sharing this video - I've experienced this with my Apache
She's a very calm rider - the horse definitely couldn't use one that is hyper.. .that would only makes things worse. I think she's doing a very good job.. wonder how the rest of the readers on this clip would handle a no go horse?
I loved your video. I am 62 and was lucky enough to start with a great teacher when my identical twin and I were only 12 in New England. The old man who took us on (an exjockey named Mr. Beggs) needed young fodder so he could train his off the track thoroughbreds to get used to the woods, jumping, etc. He was amazing for his age and sold all his horses in the $200-300,000 range, back then it was a LOT. He would have loved this video and your patient technique. We all loved him and his stables and horses because even though very strict, he was kind, and very smart. I subscribed and hope to see more happy things like I did here today :)
Wow, this is amazing! Definitely going to train this method to my mare! :-)
Only asking ''yes'' questions and rewarding the slightest try will get you very far with horses.
I always look forward to your videos and I always learn something! My horses are slow to respond and I will definitely be working on refining my cues and body language. Hard to do at my age but worth trying. I also look forward to your Q$A. Always so interesting 😊
Thank you so much, I have been looking for a video like this for so long now. My horse is so stubborn and just like the horse in the video. I really don’t like to use force so I found your training technique really useful.
Finally found someone who understands and gave me good advice. The only thing not mentioned that I have a problem with is that with her not going forward comes backing up. Love your quiet way of teaching and the lesson on patience. Thanks!
Thanks for the tip! I have been fighting with my school horse for a couple days now. 😊
Thanks for posting this video. My daughter's 10 year old pony mare is like this. She was roughed up for this type of behavior at past places and passed on from owner to owner so what was created is a pony that is resistant most of the time.
Wow, I’ve had dozens of horses but this guy is really a “no go” guy! 😎
I know nothing about horses but found this fascinating to watch someone who is really skilled at working with troubled horses.
That was a very informational video. Thank you very much for posting it. I love the way you work with the horse at his own pace. Most people force the horse with whips and spurs to make the progress quicker but what they don't understand is that adding that extra pressure causes stress, which can make the horse react in a angry or fearful way. Of course they think that is only natural but I have learned over the years that there is huge difference between a playful buck or rear and an angry or fearful reaction. I have broken plenty of horses without having one buck, rear or bolt under saddle. All and all really great work, I truly enjoyed learning from this video. Right now I'm working with an unresponsive horse so I will defiantly use some of your techniques:)
Very helpful and very funny. Thank you both!
One of the best videos I have seen in a long time.
This video was extremely helpful. I am about to start training a woman's horse who hasn't gone forward since she bought him 16 YEARS AGO! She gives me grief that he is ALREADY ground broke (obviously not), can lunge, etc. BUT he won't move for her. So this beginning step really is useful as I have never had a horse that wouldn't move forward.
This helped me sooo much! Thank you!
Really appreciate your posting this & explaining the empathy & negotiations with this(fantastically handsome)horse. I have a retired STB only recently broken to saddle who does this at the beginning of a ride(only 3 short rides & 1 proper ride so far)except he also runs backwards & rears if pressured without thought or timing. Empathy & patience is so important, they would turn very quickly into miserable, unridable, unsafe, unsaleable & forever labelled as problem horses without it. Marlis-You
Just found this video and it made me smile. If there's one thing a horse hates, it's being annoyed. Wish I would have found you sooner. RIP Marlis.
thank your this really helped me with my horse :) thank you so much.
Dear Lady, I do not know who you are, but what you are doing is absolutely great. I agree to every word you are saying to explain what you are doing. I can tell that this horse is listening to you after just minutes after you mounted him. this horse may have a difficult body, but still he is intelligent and learning from you fast... I wish you all the best, you know what you are doing! just don't even listen to all these strange comments about dominance etc., this is not the point here and is never the point when training a horse. Wonder who taught this horse not to move in the first place, this is the human being to critisize, certainly not you! keep doing what you are doing! excellent!!!
Thabk you so much! I have my first project horse and I am determined to make him the best I can! He has the same problem as yours, and I am glad there is a way to fix it! Thank you so much
Bless you for taking on a project horse. There are no bad horses, only bad riders (also the title of a very good book that I highly recommend). Every problem has a solution, but some take more time and patience than others. Don't give up, you are this horse's guardian angel! I'm not a professional, but I have a lot of experience with re-training problem horses--if I can help in any way let me know.
Great info! I have a filly I just bought, she is so chill but doesn't know anything yet. I like this method you've taught...I just have to remember to be patient and take the time. She will be an awesome horse!
Really glad I found this video. I was just given a WB mare the other day from a lady who said she was "arena sour", thus she would "lock up" or refuse to go forward when you ask for the trot. As soon as you would prepare to ask the mare she would tense up and start shutting down. We've made tons of progress in just 2 days--just going slow and asking little by little. You get so much more with patience, persistence, and modest request. I just relate it to the way i like to be taught.
LONG FREAKING HORSE DAAAAMNNN
I think you do a great job to help this horse to have confidance again.
Greatings from the Netherlands
I liked your approach! It worked!
Old school never overface at any stage. Assess - plan & action so important for success. Just cause a horse can - does not mean they should till one lesson is truly understood. Anyway I'm glad to see its helpful to young trainers too. Hugs h
Oh bless him, he seems so shut down and in such a state of learned helplessness.
Loved this! Thanks.
I absolutely loved this video
Thank you to the lady that did this video. I have a pony that is like this. Accept at first he would do an occasional buck or rear-up. His ground lunging has really improved and when asked, he does what I want. We did make progress with him walking under saddle but then would stop every so often. Then he did this crow hop thing the other day that was scary for me and I do not want to chance it with having him do this with one of my girls so if I apply this knowledge in the video
THAT IS AWESOME! I'm happy to have been able to help.
Wow this is great. I admire your patience💕
Glad I found this video. One of my horses rushes to the gate and up towards where I ride and lets me put the bridle on no problem, but some days he has no woah, others he has no go, and in between he acts the perfect gentleman! On his bad days I think I'll only do response training, like this. Maybe I'll switch it up and continue with light cart training (for some reason he likes pulling things, especially tires. And sometimes me lmao).
Patience and kindness is a wonderful thing. I would like to have known a bit about his background but this is one of the most difficult problems to correct. Thank you for sharing. Quickness is overrated these days - bravo for taking your time!
I love this method. Patience is a virtue. I hate to see people forcing their will over animals. I don't know if they're on some kind of ego trip or what, but it pushes my buttons for sure.
Wonderful wonderful video! Definitely will help me for the future!
Wow! Thank you this really helped me a lot with my horse hope. She doesn't respond to crops or whips either! So thank you :) I finally got my horse to walk, trot, and canter beautifully and happily :D
Thanku So Much❤️❤️❤️🙏we have a sweet no go horse,I will try this Strategy..
Beautiful work.
Thank you for taking the time to make this video. My 4 year old does not like to be ridden in the pasture/arena. He gets stuck. So thank you. This will help me a great deal and now makes me want to go out and work with him more.
Was so happy when i saw you have posted another video!! I cant believe u are not as well known or more than othe horsemen :o i love your true understanding of horse nature and instinct. Thank you for giving the reason behind the exercises you use with horses :) this is very helpful and somthing other horsemen stuggle with. Cant wait for another video and i absolutley loved your book!!!! Thanks :)
Amazing horse-woman -ship ! Thank you for your invaluable lessons:)
omg People would you stop judging??? video is not about conformation, its about how to make him to move forward and think forward-which she showed and succeed...he hasn't got good conformation at all, but the wither is level with hips, its the slop of the field gives such a impression...
MonBlanka with how long that horses back is, he shouldn’t be used for riding till he lost more weight. It is most definitely about conformation! Conformation of a horse is what makes it a good riding horse, and with how we breed for specific traits a lot of breeds need supports of some kinds to make them comfortable while being ridden. This horse is most definitely uncomfortable and painful.
Not just the conformation, it is that his back is completely hollow and he has no topline. Horses with a long back really need to be ridden correctly to avoid this, this horse cannot move correctly with a rider and will end up in pain.
Well done this should be the norm in every stable
Thank you so much for posting this!!! I am going to try this tonight with my new rescue percheron. Groundwork has been going well. Tried getting on her for the first time last night and she just locked up. (I know she had a little riding at the rescue and was used in a wedding.) We were able to get her to move her feet some.. She was breathing very hard the whole time. She has displayed this "lock-up" on other things too (like picking up feet).. I think its her way of saying "I don't what to".
Good use of horse psychology and you can see his curiosity/interest come up when this rider is doing something completely different than probably every other rider was demanding.
You're the first one I've seen that's addressed this type of problem in such a calm and relaxed way. Very refreshing to see. 👍😍 And also very helpful to me because the horse I just purchased does the exact same thing. If I get the whip out, he'll move. But I don't want him to move because he's made to, I want him to move because he wants to. 😇
My horse acts exactly like this horse and I have been stuck on what to do for so long. I’m definitely going to try this
Wonderful approach for horse who must have been abused. Thank you. I got my horse years ago to be willing to go by loosening the bit strap to show one wrinkle only at the corner of his mouth. Always check if bit strap is too tight.
Beautiful horse and the trainer is awesome,,, very gentle makes the horse think it is his idea to walk,,,,very good job,,,, I hate to see them being mistreated.......
Wow! This woman made a horse walk!
Nicely done. The horse is completely out of shape, but her technique did get him to step out more normally. The horse's conformation is not on his side, but with enough of this kind of work, he should muscle out and feel more comfortable being ridden.
just wanted to say thank you ssoooo much for uploading this. My 3 yr old filly had been doing great at first then as i started asking for more from her she just shut down. She wouldnt move forward at all i was so frustrated then i saw your vid. It works magnificently i still have to be loud with my legs at times but shes getting better everyday.
Good cure for insomnia!
Buy a cheap, but interesting paper back novel. Keep it in your pocket. When he stops, start reading...
That is just great! I hope I can at least partly adapt it into my routine having some not lazy horses but always asking a reason for everything I guess