Blumlein, ORTF, and M-S - Stereo Part 3
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- Опубліковано 28 чер 2024
- In this video, Mr. B explains Blumlein, ORTF, and M-S stereo recording techniques.
Printable ORTF cheat sheet:drive.google.com/file/d/1B7MU...
More reading on M-S:www.uaudio.com/blog/mid-side-...
0:00 Intro
0:26 Blumlein
1:47 ORTF
3:29 Mid-Side
I love how this feels like a class and I catch myself taking notes
It’s better than school where other classmates have no interest
Your pacing is very straightforward yet you're still entertaining and funny without dragging on for too long. Nice.
Thank you a lot for including mono compatibility in your video ! much more helpful, and much appreciated !
As a studying audio engineer, thank you so much for this series. I've developed an actual understanding of these techniques and what mono compatibility is thanks to these videos.
May I ask the name and level of the cource you are studying!
From the enthusiast in Mid-MO, thank you for taking the time to make and post these videos. Your instructions are clear, concise, to the point and very informative. I can't thank you enough for passing this knowledge along. Don't forget about that binaural video! Thanks Again!
One thing about M-S. You can use any microphone and pattern for the Mid microphone Including supercardioids, subcardioids or even a shotgun mic. Just make sure that you have the capsules vertically aligned.
Absolutely correct!
Another great video, Mr B! The Blumlein set-up to me easily sounded the best here. The sound breathed. I’ll now be trying the Blumlein technique (using my new Rode NTR ribbon mic pair) on my subsequent choir recordings. More from you please, sir!
pleasant lecture style! useful information and relevant humor
This is becoming my favortie audio channel on YB!!!
Can’t thank you enough for this amazing stereo series. Well done man.
Thanks for the printout! I laughed so hard about the polarity switch in Pro Tools, you are so right!
Great video, great sound and as a bonus, the portable ORTF guide. Thanks a lot.
Another good one - thanks Mr. B.!
Very helpful and clearly explained. Thank you!
You made it very clear😄
thankyou so much mr.b
As an alternative to the paper triangle in the Description, the iPhone app “Stereo Mic Tools” is an overlay for the phone’s camera that makes it easy to set up ORTF and other stereo configurations where you want your mikes to be at a specific angle and distance apart. You look down through the app at the camera’s live image of your mikes and use the app’s overlay to adjust the mikes’ angle/placement.
app not available in Australia :(
@@doubledark2 check out the app: recording tools
Yeah, but a paper (thin, stiff cardboard is better) triangle can be used in less time than you can open the app on your phone. And it won’t break if you drop it…
Thank you ! interesting, helpful and well demonstrated.
This was great!
A great presentation, thanks!
A practical consideration... I chose ORTF and Spaced AB because I already have the necessary mikes and I do some of my recording outdoors, which requires wind protection. For Mid-side, I’d need either a combination mike and appropriate dedicated windscreen or a dedicated blimp/windscreen large enough to house two microphones. Cinela’s Leo (a ball-shaped wind protector), and similar products by, for example, Rycote, works for both monaural and ORTF or Spaced AB stereo.
The nice thing about the VP88 is that it's front-address, so it can fit in most zeppelins designed for shotgun mics.
Mr. B in the studio Good to know. Thanks for this series.
Spaced AB is not mono-compatible, which prevents from adjusting stereo width while mixing.
very useful and well done video!
Wow. I find it self (mic technique)
And than I find this video series.
And I find myself!
Thanks a lot!!!!!!!!!
giving me a Bruce Swedien vibe, thanks for sharing the knowledge!
Wow, can't get a better compliment than that!
Thanks, very interesting and good video!
Thank you. Great tutorial
Thanks for the printable cheat 😊
Thanks a lot for this!
I've never consumed ALL videos in any of my subscribed contents the way I do here. Thank you Mr. B for making this extremely educational, practical and succinct! This is a great service you provide.
I've been a long time avid photographer, but completely new to the world of video / audio recording. I find myself in need of recording high end piano performances, and occasional small ensembles.
I have paired matched omni for ambience and/or close miking and supercardioids for in-piano miking, and the multitude of techniques and spacing options associated. I am recording into a Zoom H8 handheld field recorder (which has its own XY mic). I don't use DAW or other mixers, bc luckily (I don't have enough time to learn), I'm not allowed (competition requirements) to alter my recordings.....for now....I'm sure as my interest in audio engineering grows, so will my needs/wants. I need to record straight into a camera without manipulation. I realize the limiting quality is the in camera pre-amp, which I minimized as much as possible.
I wonder if you can provide insight into what my settings should be on my H8 and potential mic setup. I find stereo linking of the paired mics more pleasant in the H8 than separate channel recording, but then again, I haven't tried panning individual channels and keeping it separated. Is that something I should do?
I'm not sure how to avoid phase cancellation and comb filtering effects. Unfortunately, I am in a time sensitive deadline and found your useful videos too late. Would love to have seen a future video on this subject, but for now, I wonder if you can impart some wisdom for me.
Thank you so much!
Thanks for watching and your kind words! To answer your questions, if you are recording into separate tracks, then you would need to pan those tracks left and right to hear the stereo image. Otherwise, you're just hearing the mono version of that recording.
Phase cancellation can be difficult to avoid. A phrase we often say is, "don't use 2 when 1 will do". In other words, if you are recording something that doesn't need to be in stereo, just record with a single mic. But cancellation can also occur because of placement. For instance, if you're set up next to a wall, you're recording the direct sound from the source, but the reflected sound is causing the cancellation.
Hope that helps. Good luck to you! Cheers!
@@MrBinthestudio Thank you for your time and insight! Most helpful, as always. Looking forward to future videos.
gracias maestro!
Might be worth noting that the French equivalent of the BBC/CBC developed stereo ORTF in the early 1960s, at a time when stereo broadcasting was in its infancy and monaural was the norm. Reasonable mono compatibility was essential. Details: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORTF_stereo_technique
Einfach astrein 🔥💛
💛
señor lo amo
Love the picture with your sennheiser MD 441 :D
so fast.couldn't believe.hahahahaha.thx for sharing these precious knowledge.
Thanks for the video. It was slightly confusing that you explained mid/side with a pair of microphones and then recorded the examples with a different pair. Also the mid/side stereo guitar example sounded a little off, not sure what was going on there.
One thing you don't mention in this series is microphone type choices, such as where to use a small diaphragm, large diaphragm, etc. You show examples, and in those examples you describe them, but how about a video dedicated to which type of mic works well in what situations; some generalizations. Where to use a stereo setup and where to use a single mono mic, etc. Your videos are great. It feels like I am one on one or in a small group with the professor.
Thanks for watching. I appreciate the suggestion!
Outstanding tutorial as well as production! (I subscribed) Forgive my lack of experience, but I'm assuming that for the stereo recordings, you recorded each mic on stereo (2) tracks in your DAW. Is this correct or am I missing something? Thank you! :)
Yes, you are correct
@@MrBinthestudio Why does this work? Wouldn't both capsules be sending signal to both tracks? What I mean is, despite having two capsules, the microphone is essentially mono?
@@j-note5231 yes, each microphone is generating a mono signal, so as long as each mic is being assigned to independent mono tracks, you will be able to maintain that separation. If you're recording into a single stereo track, one mic is independently sent to the left, and the other to the right
@@j-note5231 Re-reading your question, I feel I should clarify... dual capsule mics (like the AKG C414, or the Neumann U87) have the dual capsules for the purpose of achieving the selectable polar patterns. So the two capsules still only output a mono signal.
The exception to this is stereo microphones, which have two independent capsules, and actually output two separate mono signals. Does this help?
I know it's an old video, but thanks a lot for making and sharing this, it was very helpful to me as well. May I ask what is that particular mic preamp you are showing with the M/S switch?
Thanks for watching! That is a Neve 5024.
Thanks for the video. For the M/S demonstration, it looked to use the Blumlein video takes (the M/S set-up isn't seen). Is the audio in the M/S section from the M/S mics (only the video that's misleading) or accidentally the Blumlein audio again? Just asking as I wanted to compare the sound of M/S to the others..
Thanks for watching! Yes, you are hearing M-S. I used the same mics that I used for the Blumlein demonstration. Their position looks very similar because of the camera angle.
Thanks for that clarification Mr. B - I hadn't thought they might be multi-pattern. Makes sense now (also that they're the same, rather than the two different mics in your demo setup). I'm taking the plunge with some studio space soon, so am absorbing as much as I can .. Thanks for your vids!
Thanks very much! That's a fantastic video with some very important concepts explained so well!
I've got a question that I'm hoping you or someone here might answer :)
I'm recording a small orchestra (minus strings section) and I'm hoping to use a pair of Rode M5 in either the XY or ORTF position.
My question is do I record with Pan set to the Center for both Mics (on the mixer/recorder), or do I need to pan each mic left/right?
Any help is much appreciated :)
Thanks for watching! That really depends on the recorder you're using. What are you recording with?
@@MrBinthestudio Thanks for your response. The mics are in an ORTF setup. I'm using a Tascam DR70d to record the left mic on to Track 1, and the right mic onto track 2. Panning each mic hard left and right. Is this about right? Appreciate your time.
Yes, looking at the unit online, it looks like that should work fine. I always tell people to check it anyway. Do a test run and walk around the setup while talking, and when you play it back you should hear the changes as you walked around it.
I have an impression that the ORTF piano sample has a strange sound defect at E of the second octave (in the last arpeggio). Something like a resonance. Is it a side effect of the ortf technique, a glitch of the piano or a glitch of my ears? I hear it both in stereo and mono.
Hi! What is the best method for amplifying a string quartet in a live and open air concert with stereo microphones? Thank you
That's a great question, but not an easy one to answer. A stereo pair generally doesn't work very well for live sound, as it's just so prone to feedback. I believe most productions have spot mics on each instrument, and use the stereo pair only as a guide as to where to pan the individual instrument mics, not for amplification.
What makes a room sound great? How should it read on a RTA?
That is a great question, but probably too complicated to cover in a UA-cam comment. I would recommend checking out the UA-cam channel "Acoustic Fields". Also, an RTA is not a very good tool for room analysis, because it only tells you frequency response in one particular area. It doesn't give you any data about reverb time, resonance, diffusion, etc.
I knew your name was Mr. Blumlein 😊
If only! Alan Blumlein invented M-S and Binaural as well.
what microphone is that one on top of the U87 @6:20?
That is a Neumann KM84, the predecessor to the KM184. I think the 84 was superior to the 184, but sadly they don't make them anymore.
I find that MS in stereo shifts the image away from center.....
👀🎶✨
Do you have to do any panning to ORTF, XY and BLUMLEIN?
Yes, all are panned hard left-right.
@@MrBinthestudio thank you! And for blumlein would you pan them according to the direction of the front of the capsule? For example the top one might be pointing over to the right. Would you pan that one right?
Yes, that's correct
How do you process the Blumlein recording in the DAW?
There's no special processing needed. Just pan the mics left and right
Is panning done during recording or does it come into play at playback?
Hey. When come video about binaural recording?
Working on it... :)
@@MrBinthestudio you gonna make ears? 😉 Today I was first time trying stereo recording technique. Was very nice. Sorry for my English. Thx teacher!
Am I crazy or did you recycle your Blumlein footage for what should have been M/S footage? (Is the audio correct?)
Nope, I just used the same mics. If you look closely, you can see the top mic pointing forward in the MS example. In hindsight, I really should have used different mics to make some contrast, so no, you're not crazy either. :)
@@MrBinthestudio Oh wow, yeah, the 414 threw me off but I see it now. I've only ever seen it done with a small diaphragm for the mid for some reason...probably for the ease-of-differentiation factor.
that's the easy French tho xD (sorry I missed live premier ... UA-cam gave me wrong time zone)
No, I actually changed my mind and made it live an hour early
@@MrBinthestudio no worries .... it's the info that counts and thank you for teaching us. :)
3 more hours till it premieres :(
First
I tried a BL pair with AKG c214s and then the mics got close on top of each other, I got a lot of weird sounds.
2:36 ORTF
5:18 M/S
The mics are too close for ORTF to the piano and guitar. The angle and distance would need to be adjusted for this short distance. You are getting a slight hole in the middle with the plain ORTF setup.
BLUMLEIN FOR ME - I got a lot done with one stereo mic and have over thirty videos showing the process if anyone is interested.
Ms sounds squeaky
I would never do an M/S arrangement with 2 large-diaphragm microphones as shown in this video. This "orangutan-like" arrangement would spoil each other's directional characteristics. Much better results can be achieved with 2 small-diaphragm types.