Mountain biking used to be about going up hilly terrain. In the US, mountain biking has become about going down hill only. Rigids are constantly tested on downhill single track, ignoring the huge benefits uphill of less weight and little energy losses.
Yep. Experiment with that tire pressure. It makes all the difference. The plus tires can be very versatile if you are willing to adjust the pressure for your application. Even mid ride adjustments are allowing me to ride different terrain much faster than I thought I could.
I'm in 2020 and this came up in my feed, not looking at the dates I was like.. 650+ new standard? Wow these guys are behind 😆 It's amazing how a few years can really change things...
Good test guys. I would agree across the board with the points you made. I just flatted my rear Schwalbe 27.5 x 2.8 today on a tall sharp rock while ripping a downhill. I'll be setting up tubeless before the next run. My ride is the DMR Trailstar with 2.8 rear and 3.0 front tires and I'm actually enjoying the bike on really steep rutted, rocky, rooty downhills more than my freeride bike. It is an absolute blast and gives great feedback for cornering technique on the steeps and proper rider position at speed. Very fun if you want to be a bit more active on the bike.
Coming from moto, a 27.5"+ tire looks like the best all around combination for me. Less deflection of trail roots, cushioned ride, and a beefy look. Just need to find the perfect brand and price point before making my next bike purchase
Maybe I'm just stuck in the past, but I love my standard hardtail 26er. Maybe I'll go for something different next time I buy a new rig, but for now the older style does me fine. Great vid btw.
+biscuit abuse Thanks! Glad to hear you still love your bike. New tech is great for people who want to upgrade, but it definitely doesn't make your old bike any worse!
In denial? Dropper post, hydraulic brakes are HUGE game changers. Suspension tech has come A LONG WAY last 10 years and geometry makes descending an avg person into a monster. I can understand if one doesnt have the money. But save for good deal on frame, build one piece at a time.
I have a 2003 Gary Fisher Sugar 3 and a 2017 Specialized Pitch. Going from the old 26" wheels, suspension and geometry, to the new stuff is night and day. Feel so much more in control with the new stuff.
One decent setup for + tires i saw was a Ragley BigWig using 2.8" tyres front and back on standard hubs (not boost), i believe it was on WTB Scrapers and the nicks, seemed like a very fast rig with decent control on harder terrain
I have a Mondraker Phase 27.5, its my first real mountainbike and at the shop I got it they have all the Mondraker bikes, I really love the look of the Vantage for a hard tail and this new + size looks amazing, when I can upgrade I know what I'll be looking for!
I've got an old kona fire mountain which is ace I've upgraded a few things on it .. but had a go of a trek roscoe plus tyres bike .. wow wow it's awesome easy to pedal , I'm sell my kona and getting a plus tyre bike .. canna wait
I think this was a really thoughtful video actually. I've been riding a Stache 5+ and while it's a 29+ instead of 650b+ the description of the two hard tails discussed fit my own experience. I'm curious about the Scott, but it seems like I'd prefer a more standard tire volume for full suspension...2.35 or so.
Ibis got it right with their new Mojo 3: 27.5 with enough clearance for up to 2.8 inch wide tires. No new wheels, no new fork, no flip chips. Just switch between 2.2" to 2.8" tires on your trailbike as you feel. 3.0" still seems too wobbly and excessive anyways from what you can read between the lines of those reviews. Hope others will follow.
+williesrcworks Yeah I read that just now. Their bikes are expensive but it seems they actually try to make bikes that customers would want to invest money in instead of just adding a 650B+ option to their best seller trail bike, throw it out there and see what happens.
Their special blend models are actually really good. I've ridden them and they feel pretty much as good as some of the higher models. For full carbon its not too bad of a deal.
i got a haro bike they being around for a lone time nice bike them the one made bmx bike 29er haro the bike as know as the racer bike i get to work in no time
Another point thats heavily glossed over: large wheels and tires are both heavy and add rotating mass, which is harder to accelerate and climb with. These 29 and 27.5 hardtails are heavier overall than my 26" dual suspension cross country bike and they suck on climbing. New is not better, new is about marketing and perceived obsolescence.
+Sasha Drzak we don't have a video review of the Loki (yet), but here's a written one on BikeRadar - www.bikeradar.com/us/mtb/gear/category/bikes/mountain-bikes/hardtail/product/review-orbea-loki-h-ltd-16-50109/
I don't have a video, but my Beast is an absolute monster truck with 3.0" WTB Trail Boss tires. Have put mid travel bikes to shame on some seriously nasty, steep and fast rocky downhills... It doesn't like slow techy terrain though. It's very much a Power Sled of a bike, at least that's how I ride it! Hope that helps
Great review, however you did not talk about the option of a second 29" wheel set? Is it true and would that give you a bike with wide range uses and fun? Or will the geometry just be all wrong with one wheel set or average with both?
+matdaka putting a 29" wheel should work with some of these bikes, although the outer diameter, especially with more aggressive tyres, is a bit bigger with 29" wheels. Swapping wheels would make the bike feel different, a bit more 'sprightly' but we've just done some timed testing (results soon), which currently suggests times might be no faster...
have a 2014 giant talon with the 650b they pick up speed faster are a little looser on cornering not a bad thing at least in my way of riding. seem to soak more vibration but does take some getting used to.
been considering buying a + bike myself and find this vid very informative. thanks guys! will stick to the 29er version and wait for + size to settle down, or maybe something like a '+ light' i.e. say 2.6 tyres? maxxis has just released a number of more aggressive tyres including high roller and even minion in the + format, also I wish you had included SC's High Tower, but I assume the vid was shot before both this bike and those tyres were released? anyway - big thanks!
+OneManMob Yeah unfortunately the Hightower wasn't available when testing, nor were the more aggressive Maxxis treads. The Hightower is a great bike though (www.bikeradar.com/us/mtb/gear/category/bikes/mountain-bikes/full-suspension/product/review-santa-cruz-santa-cruz-hightower-50132/), and we're looking forward to trying out the new Maxxis treads. I reckon in a year or two we might see more and more 27.5 x 2.5-2.6" trail tyres...
Check out the Polygon Entiat TR8 +, really interested in seeing professional reviews on the Polygon brand. I have just purchased one and so very happy but always interested in what others think
some pro riders from factory teams managed to shave a couples seconds from their past records on enduro track with 27.5+ tires. As I heard they tend to keep this secretly but it might surprise this summer all those sceptics about 27.5+ tires potential.
Ralph Ian DC plus because you're not having to pull all that massive weight but still getting a good amount of cushion on hitting objects faster and still getting that better grip so you can take corners faster.
Yesto you can have as hard a time as you like, but I've been using the huffy vantage 3.0 for a good half year and have absolutely shredded it, aside from typical wear and tear and a few of the cheaper parts breaking it has held up amazingly, I can keep it going at a decent 20mph on flat surfaces as long as I'm not fighting the wind and even then I keep a decent pace. Only reason I'm using it is because my two bikes are both broken and need extensive repairs I have been looking to fix them and I'm borrowing this one (gonna replace the few parts that have worn out and broken once done with it)
+larry david In my opinion we won't see plus bikes in these events any time soon - tyre weight is incredibly important in XC and plus bikes have a definite weight penalty, with tyres around the 900-950g mark. XC tyres are considerably lighter.
Because it's cheaper to manufacture front suspension than it is to manufacture rear. You could get a rear suspension frame and put rigid forks if you really wanted to.
Mountain biking used to be about going up hilly terrain. In the US, mountain biking has become about going down hill only. Rigids are constantly tested on downhill single track, ignoring the huge benefits uphill of less weight and little energy losses.
I own a scott genius 720 plus, and I can seriously say I haven't had as much fun on the trails since I first started riding.
What were you riding before?

Ric Vespa XC cube acid 29er.
I am looking at buying 1 myself, is there anything I should watch out for?
prettyjohnshill76 you saying a 29” or 27.5 would be better
Yep. Experiment with that tire pressure. It makes all the difference. The plus tires can be very versatile if you are willing to adjust the pressure for your application. Even mid ride adjustments are allowing me to ride different terrain much faster than I thought I could.
holy shit the rocky mountain paint job is insane:...
Nasty!
Uk I think he meant nasty as in good
After riding a plus bike for a year, this analysis was spot on
I'm in 2020 and this came up in my feed, not looking at the dates I was like.. 650+ new standard? Wow these guys are behind 😆
It's amazing how a few years can really change things...
Good test guys. I would agree across the board with the points you made. I just flatted my rear Schwalbe 27.5 x 2.8 today on a tall sharp rock while ripping a downhill. I'll be setting up tubeless before the next run. My ride is the DMR Trailstar with 2.8 rear and 3.0 front tires and I'm actually enjoying the bike on really steep rutted, rocky, rooty downhills more than my freeride bike. It is an absolute blast and gives great feedback for cornering technique on the steeps and proper rider position at speed. Very fun if you want to be a bit more active on the bike.
Coming from moto, a 27.5"+ tire looks like the best all around combination for me. Less deflection of trail roots, cushioned ride, and a beefy look. Just need to find the perfect brand and price point before making my next bike purchase
Maybe I'm just stuck in the past, but I love my standard hardtail 26er. Maybe I'll go for something different next time I buy a new rig, but for now the older style does me fine. Great vid btw.
+biscuit abuse Thanks! Glad to hear you still love your bike. New tech is great for people who want to upgrade, but it definitely doesn't make your old bike any worse!
that's what I thought about my Nokia 3210, it was fine until I gave in and tried my iPhone for the first time 😀
In denial? Dropper post, hydraulic brakes are HUGE game changers. Suspension tech has come A LONG WAY last 10 years and geometry makes descending an avg person into a monster. I can understand if one doesnt have the money. But save for good deal on frame, build one piece at a time.
I have a 2003 Gary Fisher Sugar 3 and a 2017 Specialized Pitch. Going from the old 26" wheels, suspension and geometry, to the new stuff is night and day. Feel so much more in control with the new stuff.
biscuit abuse personally I’ve only ridden 26” s and I just bought a 27.5+ and I’ll see what’s the difference and report back
bike industry is wild as fuck....
Excellent analysis
+Dave Carter Thanks! We'll pass your comments on to 'Thomas Marvin'.
26+ when?
Not enough roll-over to justify the weight.
+iEliteTester Surly Knard 26x3?
Maks Gab
holy shit
+iEliteTester haha
it's called a fat bike on a diet😊
One decent setup for + tires i saw was a Ragley BigWig using 2.8" tyres front and back on standard hubs (not boost), i believe it was on WTB Scrapers and the nicks, seemed like a very fast rig with decent control on harder terrain
I have a Mondraker Phase 27.5, its my first real mountainbike and at the shop I got it they have all the Mondraker bikes, I really love the look of the Vantage for a hard tail and this new + size looks amazing, when I can upgrade I know what I'll be looking for!
I've got an old kona fire mountain which is ace I've upgraded a few things on it .. but had a go of a trek roscoe plus tyres bike .. wow wow it's awesome easy to pedal , I'm sell my kona and getting a plus tyre bike .. canna wait
That said, that said, that said, that said, that said. Liking that Mondrake frame...bad ass.
Great analysis. How about the paint job on that Rocky Mountain? Wow.
I think this was a really thoughtful video actually. I've been riding a Stache 5+ and while it's a 29+ instead of 650b+ the description of the two hard tails discussed fit my own experience. I'm curious about the Scott, but it seems like I'd prefer a more standard tire volume for full suspension...2.35 or so.
Ibis got it right with their new Mojo 3: 27.5 with enough clearance for up to 2.8 inch wide tires. No new wheels, no new fork, no flip chips. Just switch between 2.2" to 2.8" tires on your trailbike as you feel. 3.0" still seems too wobbly and excessive anyways from what you can read between the lines of those reviews. Hope others will follow.
+Denis Lambers They just released a new swingarm kit for the HD3 too, which can take up to 2.8's too I believe.
+williesrcworks Yeah I read that just now. Their bikes are expensive but it seems they actually try to make bikes that customers would want to invest money in instead of just adding a 650B+ option to their best seller trail bike, throw it out there and see what happens.
Their special blend models are actually really good. I've ridden them and they feel pretty much as good as some of the higher models. For full carbon its not too bad of a deal.
The Pine Mountain is just so sexy. I love the look of a rigid mtb
My Specialized 27.5+ 6fatty FSR is the best bike on the planet. 27.5x 3" tires are the future anything smaller will be seen as antique
+tires are great for noobs to gain confidence
Bryce 2.3-2.7in is probably the optimal range for speed over comfort tbh
What a coincidence! I saw exactly same Mondraker model today and wondered how does it work
i got a haro bike they being around for a lone time nice bike them the one made bmx bike 29er haro the bike as know as the racer bike i get to work in no time
Pine Mountain = Survival bike / Zombie apocalypse bike. lol :)
I'll have my Marin in a few days, so soon I'll be safe from the zombies :)
Another point thats heavily glossed over: large wheels and tires are both heavy and add rotating mass, which is harder to accelerate and climb with. These 29 and 27.5 hardtails are heavier overall than my 26" dual suspension cross country bike and they suck on climbing.
New is not better, new is about marketing and perceived obsolescence.
a lighter hammer isn't a better hammer
Tubeless helps
Great video guys! Will there be a review on the Orbea Loki by any chance?
+Sasha Drzak we don't have a video review of the Loki (yet), but here's a written one on BikeRadar - www.bikeradar.com/us/mtb/gear/category/bikes/mountain-bikes/hardtail/product/review-orbea-loki-h-ltd-16-50109/
+Thomas Marvin cheers
Please do a Beast of the East review video!
I don't have a video, but my Beast is an absolute monster truck with 3.0" WTB Trail Boss tires. Have put mid travel bikes to shame on some seriously nasty, steep and fast rocky downhills... It doesn't like slow techy terrain though. It's very much a Power Sled of a bike, at least that's how I ride it! Hope that helps
Great review, however you did not talk about the option of a second 29" wheel set? Is it true and would that give you a bike with wide range uses and fun? Or will the geometry just be all wrong with one wheel set or average with both?
+matdaka putting a 29" wheel should work with some of these bikes, although the outer diameter, especially with more aggressive tyres, is a bit bigger with 29" wheels.
Swapping wheels would make the bike feel different, a bit more 'sprightly' but we've just done some timed testing (results soon), which currently suggests times might be no faster...
Who doesn't love them some Mondraker? :)
very well explained and clearly did your research well
Great impartial review.
Now...tell me more about mud (dreeeam!) - so dry in Australia!
have a 2014 giant talon with the 650b they pick up speed faster are a little looser on cornering not a bad thing at least in my way of riding. seem to soak more vibration but does take some getting used to.
been considering buying a + bike myself and find this vid very informative. thanks guys! will stick to the 29er version and wait for + size to settle down, or maybe something like a '+ light' i.e. say 2.6 tyres? maxxis has just released a number of more aggressive tyres including high roller and even minion in the + format, also I wish you had included SC's High Tower, but I assume the vid was shot before both this bike and those tyres were released? anyway - big thanks!
+OneManMob Yeah unfortunately the Hightower wasn't available when testing, nor were the more aggressive Maxxis treads. The Hightower is a great bike though (www.bikeradar.com/us/mtb/gear/category/bikes/mountain-bikes/full-suspension/product/review-santa-cruz-santa-cruz-hightower-50132/), and we're looking forward to trying out the new Maxxis treads. I reckon in a year or two we might see more and more 27.5 x 2.5-2.6" trail tyres...
Plus bikes should run nice wide rims so they don’t roll as much
I now love my Cannondale cujo, should've been speced with a longer travel fork which I have now fitted..
what about dusty , and gravel trails , like here in the desert
Philip Waress plus tires are, by nature, better for that kind of terrain to begin with
Try the Salsa Pony Rustler and/or the Specialized Stumpjumper 6Fattie.
What tire pressure were you running?
Did I see Specialized grips on that Rocky?
+Jamessr23 ODI Rogues, I believe (and the tyres aren't the WTB ones tested - they'd been swapped also!)
I had similar spec grips in the past they looked familiar
i want to get a bike for marathon racing...not a pro level...is the rigid bike good?
calin iosif I think that it is a great idea as long as you don't ride too aggressively and don't mind your hands hurting during a rougher ride.
Mr.Moonboy thanks man
calin iosif your welcome
Check out the Polygon Entiat TR8 +, really interested in seeing professional reviews on the Polygon brand. I have just purchased one and so very happy but always interested in what others think
Great report! with a 'fat suit' you'd look like Henry VIII :-)
+Sherwood Nash Thanks, I think?!
some pro riders from factory teams managed to shave a couples seconds from their past records on enduro track with 27.5+ tires. As I heard they tend to keep this secretly but it might surprise this summer all those sceptics about 27.5+ tires potential.
Which WTB tyre? You didn't specify... O.O
I'm confused what does the design of the bike have to do with talking about the wheelsize itself
What is that damn beeping?
+Sangus Brule I had to pause a few times to see what on earth it was.
+Ellis McCoy background music turned down too low
What was the last bike that was tested?
the pine mountain isnt budget, the roscoe 7 only costs $100 more and has a 120mm suspension fork
what is the name of that orange bike?
+Daan Poelen It's the Mondraker Vantage.
I have new dabomb enduro hardtail.what is the most recomended tire for trail.27.5x2.5 or 2.4?
What's better(Fun)? Fatbike or Plus Bike?
Ralph Ian DC plus because you're not having to pull all that massive weight but still getting a good amount of cushion on hitting objects faster and still getting that better grip so you can take corners faster.
L3G1T yeah, i have a hard time believing that fat bikes can be multi-purpose bikes. And plus tires should have plenty of grip too
Yesto you can have as hard a time as you like, but I've been using the huffy vantage 3.0 for a good half year and have absolutely shredded it, aside from typical wear and tear and a few of the cheaper parts breaking it has held up amazingly, I can keep it going at a decent 20mph on flat surfaces as long as I'm not fighting the wind and even then I keep a decent pace. Only reason I'm using it is because my two bikes are both broken and need extensive repairs I have been looking to fix them and I'm borrowing this one (gonna replace the few parts that have worn out and broken once done with it)
Yesto but tbh a fat bike wont keep up with a plus bike, huge weight difference on the cheaper end
what about XC racing? XCO, XCE and marathon?
+larry david In my opinion we won't see plus bikes in these events any time soon - tyre weight is incredibly important in XC and plus bikes have a definite weight penalty, with tyres around the 900-950g mark. XC tyres are considerably lighter.
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Tell me what's the bike of orange?
Am I the only one that thinks Scott bikes are strangely erotic?
Wat
You're not alone, Scott Genius LTs are pure sex.
I've just bought a scott spark 730 plus and it's beautiful.
Agreed
Lavars Balls My dream bike, I’m into bikepacking so not really suitable for than so I will lust from a distance.
Increasing number of people doing bike packing in the UK and the US. I guess no one is doing it in Canada?
+CrazyCyclingVlogger Canada is globally irrelevant, mate. Might as well bring up the bikepackers in Burkina Faso while you're at it. LOL!
+CrazyCyclingVlogger I could reel off a very long list of countries where people are bike-packing, but that would be tedious... ;)
What was that orange bike called
i want to know as well. frame looks awesome
found it Mondraker Vantage
How muchtravel does fit in it
Is 650b+ the same as 29+?
650b+ is the same as 27.5+
29er for life
you guys really need to look at the devinci Hendrix and do an individual review for that bike ;)
+patdud1979 I'll have a word with the distributors... looks fun.
I have a genius plus. Nobby Nics are not that good. A set of WTB bridgers transformed it.
Conclusion, 27+ tires are rubbish?
no one wants to constantly mess with tyre pressure...
loooooooooove my sherpa :)
Can you please use other background music? It has a really annoying squeak going on.
Why is there no such thing as no front suspension and only frame suspension😂😂?
ergonomics bro =)
Because it's cheaper to manufacture front suspension than it is to manufacture rear. You could get a rear suspension frame and put rigid forks if you really wanted to.
Thanks for the video
The more I know about plus tyres, the less I like them
CANNONDALE BAD HABIT!!!
A hardtail 650B+. Why?
logos not lined up... amateur... :P
MARIORODAS