The people who are seen as the top power are usually just puppets of the people behind the scenes, who are really making the decisions, simply putting people in place to "make the decisions" as far as the general public is concerned.
There was a classic '70s era BBC series, "I, Claudius", that was based on a fictionalized account of the life of Claudius (with episodes focusing on the madness of the reigns of Tiberius, Caligula, and Nero), which is highly recommended if you liked this story - and if you were ever a fan of "Game of Thrones", I'll give it a double recommendation: mad tyrants, gross corruption and debauchery, murder, scheming and back-stabbing, unlikely shades-of-grey heroes, truly nasty villains with complicated motives, this show had it all!
What made the Roman empire unique in its status as a Monarchy is that it never had any real system for succesion, Rome was much closer to a military dictatorship. This in my opinion would be one of its greatest boons an weaknesess both allowing great men from the fronteer rise to the throne, but also leading to great instability.
Yes, but you see, Caligula REALLY, REALLY had it coming to him by that point. He was actively trying to bring it upon himself towards the end, he truly believed he could do and say whatever he wanted and nothing or nobody would ever seriously offer any resistance to him. That soldier that found Claudius knew exactly what he was doing.. He recognised him and said to himself "This guy is a member of the royal family! And unlike his nephew, he is neither cruel nor absolutely BATSHIT fucking insane." And he was right. Claudius was in every way imaginable a far better emperor than Caligula had been. Not that that statement actually counts for a whole lot, really. But to Claudius' credit, seems he actually did understand that being emperor is a job, and he did way better than his nephew in treating it as such during his reign
On the note of Reluctant emperors, have you two heard of Theodosius III he was emperor from 715-717 So Basically the solders of the Opsikion (like a Provence) we’re just wondering around finding a bloke to make emperor (they were pissed at the current emperor for some reason) anyways they go up to him and “ask” him to Become emperor, so he runs and hides up on a mountain for a few hours untill they forced him to become emperor This story does have a good ending, when Leo III revolted he resigned right away with no harm, he lived most Likely for another 38 years as the bishop of Ephisus. Thanks for reading
Another reason the king's guard don't play king maker is because the men are continuously rotated throughout much of the British army so there isn't the possibility of this kind of culture forming
The emperor Carl is referring to is Didius Julianus, who bought the position of emperor in an auction the praetorians did after the last emperor, Pertinax, was unwilling to bribe them. When the soon to be emperor Severus took Rome with his Panonnian legions, Julianus asked "what crimes have I committed, whom have I killed?" The answer was obviously himself because he thought bribes would be enough to keep him on the throne, all that needed to happen was for someone else to offer a better price, which is exactly what Severus did, and this is a large factor for why the empire collapsed, because it functioned primarily via corruption
I think one of the reasons that later guards in medieval and later periods in Europe was the influence of the culture of the Germanic "barbarians" who over ran the Roman Empire. Loyalty to their comander, king etc was regarded as a sacred thing, they would often die along side their commander if they lost a battle [e.g. Harold's housecarls at Hastings ]. To abandon your commander could leave you to be declared "niddering". That is a worthless coward to be shunned by society.
If I'm not mistaken, after buying the throne at the auction which the Praetorians held, he didn't pay up in time. Queue his bodyguards getting disappointed.
Be not afraid of greatness. Some are born great, some achieve greatness, and others have greatness thrust upon them. -ancient Klingon adage or something
My understanding was that Claudius was a rather intelligent man. But rather unimpressive and underestimated because of a speech impediment as well as a hunched back. Leading him to have no real military or political experience or standing, this leading him to be overlooked. The Praetorians either found him behind the curtain and figured he make as good a puppet as any or already had him in mind. The Praetorians naming Claudius Emperor because wig him lacking the before mentioned military or political history he would thought to be an easy man to control. The Claudius, not being the complete imbecile everyone thought, took advantage of the situation in which he found himself.
No, Political power comes from a barrel of a gun and Mao is correct in this assertion. Just because you can't conceive of it does not mean it cannot happen, The thing about uprisings you just need enough people that are willing that is all. Same with the praetorian guard there were enough off them and they were willing. Well that and it would appear they had the will of the people too, something that is commonly overlooked
Imagine a powerful elite group just picking someone and putting a clown with no public support or moral right to the job , ... in power , could never happen now
It's always been kinda crazy to me how ancient Rome and other civilizations around that era are looked at as being so long ago it's not that relevant to today, and in some ways that's true, technology has advanced so rapidly in the last century that it was really a different world back then. But to put in perspective, 2000 years ago was closer to present day than it was to the earliest records we have of ancient Egypt.
The British Household Guard would never revolt and play kingmaker because the armed forces have pretty much accepted how power transitions from one royal and government to another. This tradition never existed in the Roman empire for the entire 1500 years of its existence. Although the English Army did play kingmaker under Cromwell and in 1688 when it deserted James II. Having a professional army was and still is in most countries a liability.
I know you were just making a joke about the royals marching on downing st, but shouldn't they be? I mean the main point of keeping the royal family, I thought, was to keep the government in check. Well the government hasn't been in check for years now. Thanks Tony... If the royals were to stand against they, they'd have my support.
The Praetorian Guard just happened to find hundreds of thousands of mail in ballots for Claudius around 2 AM
the praetorian guard was just transporting camera equipment on a red roller tray
It sounds like making emperors out of convenience, grievance or generous cash settlement quickly became the moral tradition of the Praetorian guard.
The people who are seen as the top power are usually just puppets of the people behind the scenes, who are really making the decisions, simply putting people in place to "make the decisions" as far as the general public is concerned.
Humans being human
Aye, guardians of the throne and all that
Claudius bumblefucking his way into becoming the fourth emperor of Rome wasn't the story I was expecting but it was certainly one I needed.
There was a classic '70s era BBC series, "I, Claudius", that was based on a fictionalized account of the life of Claudius (with episodes focusing on the madness of the reigns of Tiberius, Caligula, and Nero), which is highly recommended if you liked this story - and if you were ever a fan of "Game of Thrones", I'll give it a double recommendation: mad tyrants, gross corruption and debauchery, murder, scheming and back-stabbing, unlikely shades-of-grey heroes, truly nasty villains with complicated motives, this show had it all!
Such is life for Uncle Claudius
What made the Roman empire unique in its status as a Monarchy is that it never had any real system for succesion, Rome was much closer to a military dictatorship. This in my opinion would be one of its greatest boons an weaknesess both allowing great men from the fronteer rise to the throne, but also leading to great instability.
Military Democracy ,really
Yes, but you see, Caligula REALLY, REALLY had it coming to him by that point. He was actively trying to bring it upon himself towards the end, he truly believed he could do and say whatever he wanted and nothing or nobody would ever seriously offer any resistance to him. That soldier that found Claudius knew exactly what he was doing.. He recognised him and said to himself "This guy is a member of the royal family! And unlike his nephew, he is neither cruel nor absolutely BATSHIT fucking insane." And he was right. Claudius was in every way imaginable a far better emperor than Caligula had been. Not that that statement actually counts for a whole lot, really. But to Claudius' credit, seems he actually did understand that being emperor is a job, and he did way better than his nephew in treating it as such during his reign
After Nero and Bootsie, literally any adult would have been an improvement haha
Unfortunately, nero replaced Claudius
Two weeks ago today I found a Roman coin metal detecting, found out yesterday it’s Claudius depicted on it. Jungian synchronicity in action
On the note of Reluctant emperors, have you two heard of Theodosius III he was emperor from 715-717
So Basically the solders of the Opsikion (like a Provence) we’re just wondering around finding a bloke to make emperor (they were pissed at the current emperor for some reason) anyways they go up to him and “ask” him to Become emperor, so he runs and hides up on a mountain for a few hours untill they forced him to become emperor
This story does have a good ending, when Leo III revolted he resigned right away with no harm, he lived most Likely for another 38 years as the bishop of Ephisus.
Thanks for reading
Claudius is probably one of my favorites Princeps
It's not Britain that made the difference. It's Christianity. That gets forgotten a lot around here.
I Claudius is the best thing I've seen from the BBC.
Another reason the king's guard don't play king maker is because the men are continuously rotated throughout much of the British army so there isn't the possibility of this kind of culture forming
Interesting to hear about the history of the Roman Emperors. Thank you
The emperor Carl is referring to is Didius Julianus, who bought the position of emperor in an auction the praetorians did after the last emperor, Pertinax, was unwilling to bribe them.
When the soon to be emperor Severus took Rome with his Panonnian legions, Julianus asked "what crimes have I committed, whom have I killed?"
The answer was obviously himself because he thought bribes would be enough to keep him on the throne, all that needed to happen was for someone else to offer a better price, which is exactly what Severus did, and this is a large factor for why the empire collapsed, because it functioned primarily via corruption
These rich Romans, with their curtains with feet!
The Praetorians weren't new...they began as guards for high ranking officers approx 275 bce.
Interesting...
What makes you think that? Where have you read that?
Are you referring to the Lictors?
What is this "bce"? Oh, you mean BC.
Not quite, a praetor was more like a judge, the guards of officials of the senate were the lictors. During the middle to late republican era.
Fun fact the Praetorian Guard was so bad that they had to hire foreign Germanic soldiers as guards to guard the emperor’s from their bodyguards.
I think one of the reasons that later guards in medieval and later periods in Europe was the influence of the culture of the Germanic "barbarians" who over ran the Roman Empire. Loyalty to their comander, king etc was regarded as a sacred thing, they would often die along side their commander if they lost a battle [e.g. Harold's housecarls at Hastings ]. To abandon your commander could leave you to be declared "niddering". That is a worthless coward to be shunned by society.
Claudius reminds me of brian from the life of brian. Just getting caught up in nonsense that he wanted nothing to do with
it was Didius Julianus who said "what evil have i done? whom have i killed?" during the year of the 5 emperors 193 AD
If I'm not mistaken, after buying the throne at the auction which the Praetorians held, he didn't pay up in time. Queue his bodyguards getting disappointed.
Just a quick minor point, it's AD 193, not 193 AD. That is, "The year of our Lord 193", not "193 the year of Lord". The latter doesn't make any sense.
Oh wow, the Spartapuss books were a lot more accurate to history than I realised.
Be not afraid of greatness. Some are born great, some achieve greatness, and others have greatness thrust upon them.
-ancient Klingon adage or something
such was life for Uncle Claudius
(yes, this is a Dovahhatty reference)
AY UP LOTUS EATERS
But such was life for uncle Claudius
My man Claudius just wanted to grill...
Guy that bought the throne Didius Iulianus.
the parallels .. plus ce que ca change, plus que c'est la meme chose
Well, it's not as if the British Army never marched on Parliament with serious intent to be rid of Parliament. And what of the Glorious Revolution?
The red guard of Corusant had Captain Fordo
The Pretorian Guard had?
Man, Fordo was such a badass
It sounds like something out of Monty Python.
My understanding was that Claudius was a rather intelligent man. But rather unimpressive and underestimated because of a speech impediment as well as a hunched back. Leading him to have no real military or political experience or standing, this leading him to be overlooked. The Praetorians either found him behind the curtain and figured he make as good a puppet as any or already had him in mind. The Praetorians naming Claudius Emperor because wig him lacking the before mentioned military or political history he would thought to be an easy man to control. The Claudius, not being the complete imbecile everyone thought, took advantage of the situation in which he found himself.
I, cuc,cuc,cuc,cladius.
No, Political power comes from a barrel of a gun and Mao is correct in this assertion. Just because you can't conceive of it does not mean it cannot happen, The thing about uprisings you just need enough people that are willing that is all. Same with the praetorian guard there were enough off them and they were willing. Well that and it would appear they had the will of the people too, something that is commonly overlooked
Imagine a powerful elite group just picking someone and putting a clown with no public support or moral right to the job , ... in power , could never happen now
It's always been kinda crazy to me how ancient Rome and other civilizations around that era are looked at as being so long ago it's not that relevant to today, and in some ways that's true, technology has advanced so rapidly in the last century that it was really a different world back then. But to put in perspective, 2000 years ago was closer to present day than it was to the earliest records we have of ancient Egypt.
"kingmaker" the army is
The British Household Guard would never revolt and play kingmaker because the armed forces have pretty much accepted how power transitions from one royal and government to another. This tradition never existed in the Roman empire for the entire 1500 years of its existence. Although the English Army did play kingmaker under Cromwell and in 1688 when it deserted James II. Having a professional army was and still is in most countries a liability.
@lotuseaters
Can you please
describe roman republicans
And Roman democrats
according to their actions
SuRprise (sorry not sorry)
I know you were just making a joke about the royals marching on downing st, but shouldn't they be? I mean the main point of keeping the royal family, I thought, was to keep the government in check. Well the government hasn't been in check for years now. Thanks Tony... If the royals were to stand against they, they'd have my support.
that shit sounds like the CIA
I wish Beau would take a speech class, his pauses are genuinely painful to listen to.
What pauses? Give me time stamps.
Weee
Fake history, FUN!
Next you'll tell me the earth is flat...
what fake history bro , are you crazy?