@@lucianotesta5019in a real match with functional humans its not that bad. Matches filled with AI will not reflect live server gameplay. CVs wasting time shooting their guns and not using planes makes them less useful, not more useful.
@@SteelxWolf That really depends on the on the situation and CV. The increased accuracy by manually controlling them allows you to absolutely melt any DDs that try to gun down the carrier, so now gunboats will have to be very careful about what carriers they try to engage since many out dpm them by a lot.
Manual secondaries? Looks like an Assault Carrier now lmao (thats what i call cv if they ran out of planes and decide to push along with the team if german cv still has those secondaries like GZ)
If the attacks from CVs are getting weaker because you can’t replace planes in the strike if they die, then either the strike needs to hit SIGNIFICANTLY harder, or we need more planes per strike. Having the option to just get your entire attack canceled because someone looked over and pressed O, then completely ignoring you isn’t exactly a good thing.
The testing scenario is compromised, a 4x4 with 2 CV's on each team is vastly different to live server with 12x12 and usually 1 CV per team. Also, on the test server, everyone will be AA build whereas on the liver server, no-one builds for AA unless you are Halland. They cannot expect to derive any meaningful balancing information out of this test
It's not about balancing though. They want to see whether these changes are actually workable. The initial test, for example, showed that the attack patterns are difficult enough to execute that for a lot of CV players it becomes unfun. This is why the attack patterns were improved in the current iteration of the test (delays reduced).
i have to say the changes are growing on me. travelmode is realy nice to get where you are needed and accidental CV spotting is gone completely, you now have to choose to spot in an area and its pretty limited. the biggest issue is that CVs can only attack single targets now, 2-3 ships close to each other have enough AA-dpm to shoot down any attackflight before it can drop its load. i guess they will make attackflights have more planes and reduce the damage per bomb/torp/rocket like with haku torpbombers.
2 3 ships bunched together (well it depends what ship they are) always had the necessary aa power to shoot down an entire sortie. just not before the sortie itself dropped the armaments. people want to get no damage at all which i find hypocritical. they never consider the carrier who in order to deal you 14k in torp damage has just lost 12 torpedo planes to you and your 2 friends. thats 12 FUKİNG PLANES MAN. i takes at the least 12 minutes to replenish that many planes. thats an immediate loss for the carrier there losing 12 planes for measely 14k damage. but people never saw this side of the things. and now its getting even worse.
@@Aerroon yes! but the other changes also feed into that, dfaa blinding you discourages you from going against cruisers and some destroyers/battleships (especially at high tier where dfaa is everywhere), and from what I can see the clunkyness of going from travel mode to attack mode gives the enemy ship enough time to dodge unless they’re distracted. Plus the planes in the attack run dying cuts the damage and encourages you to drop from further away.I reckon if these changes go through as is, CVs will just snipe each other because every other target is just too difficult.
@@evilkookie6493 cvs will die if the changes go through as it is. the current cvs already have reduced damage numbers compared to rts cvs and now they are making it 5 times more complicated with no benefit coming around.
These changes are a big nerf for most CV's effectiveness but in the hands of a strong CV player a massive buff when playing Russian CV, 4/5 CV we see in the game will be Russian going fwd, Nakhimov is going to be brutal to face.
With a lot of new aa mechanics, including actual flak. I feel like the RTS system would end up being more balanced now than before. There are at least 100 more cruisers that are flak barges in game than we had years ago. This rework makes me want RTS even more. Its just useless
So, instead of carriers being as powerful as they were in reality, the devs nerfed them down to what’s in the live servers. Players still were doing good with them, so they’re getting nerfed into obsolescence.
I understand it`s a test server for core changes but even if they adjust plane HP, DMG and AA stats, playing CV didn't feel fun to me on the PTR. From travel mode to releasing your payload, you need to shift your mode, wait an animation, wait for a timer, wait for another attack timer, start your attack run, wait again until your reticle is green and only then you can attack. It's just an over convoluted mess. And a big skill floor increase for the average players.
@@AnthonyDiValentin-cv4bn player base are idiots. they will still complain if you make carriers launch single planes with 1 hp. they will always find a reason to complain. they dont build their ships towars anti air and they cry how they are vulnerable against cvs over and over again. rts cvs was the strongest cvs ever was. then the rework happened and cvs got tremendously weak. yet people still complained. devs murdered the rocket planes, players still complained, and now this rework will come and they will keep on complaining. remember folks carriers are in the weakest state they have ever been in their history in this games almost 10 years of history.
2:50 "The rest of your squad does not take any anti-air damage" - proceeds to almost lose the entire squadron and then *does* lose the entire squadron on the Hakuryu to a single Worcester. What? I guess they decided to just straight up kill CVs now. If you keep losing 60-100% of your squadron after every attack, even if it's just 1-2 ships, you will run out them by the 5th minute. Maybe that's why the manual secondaries? You're supposed to lose all planes immediately and then go pretend to be a cruiser?
First question: Are the people complaining about bots being bad... are they complaining about bad AA and flak bursts? Are they complaining about the co-op battles vs. AI? Or are there that many bot accounts in random battles still? I took a two year break, getting back into things now, and I've been a bit of a CV main. These changes seem a little tedious. I like the speed boost that you can use to zoom around the map, and I also enjoy varying my speed and aircraft direction to dodge flak. If WG wants to make these changes to the way CV strikes work there has to be something different with the way the attacks work. Having two or even three aircraft in a flight (depending on tier, payload, speed, HP, etc.) might be too little and render attacks ineffective, inefficient, and leave you twiddling your thumbs doing next to nothing. I'm thinking of Saipan, here, with very limited aircraft quantities, which can find itself up against Tier X ships. I guess I'll just have to try their proposed changes when another test comes around. I see some people asking for RTS back, but I wasn't playing CVs then and can't give an opinion. I do like the idea of being able to be in multiple places at once but I'm just not sure how WG can make CVs fun for everyone. There's a reason why they turned naval warfare upside down and its proving difficult to keep them in line here IMO. I wonder if WG would try some things that would let CVs contribute in more ways than just combat. I know they added some smoke screen dropping with support CVs but, in all of them, they could take this a step further. You could have things like: Spotter aircraft loiter OR fighters Spotter aircraft squadron Sonar/hydrophone buoy drop Minelayer/minesweeping Airborne warning/control squadron or loiter that buffs friendly fighters and AA Squadron or loiter that boosts capture time of friendlies Squadron or loiter that increases or decreases point gain from points Loiter that increases friendly Radar or sonar/hydrophone range and/or duration Loiter that decreases shell scatter of friendly boats With these loiters or squadrons, they could make you choose between fighter loiter and squadron loiter; they could make you choose between squadrons, too. And/or there could be a "support" squadron that makes you choose between some of these different team-supporting functions. With an RTS mode it'd be cool to use some of these effects together but when they're active they disable that squadron from making attack runs, like they're forced to drop their loiter and then return to the ship (and can't relaunch until it's finished/cancelled/shot down). Or you make your squadron be the loiter! lots of ways to do it. They could also implement mechanics like a fuel timer for your squadrons, or delay squadron formation when you're trying to land aircraft at the same time (or make it impossible). I'm just spit-balling here so I'll stop, but it's so strange to me that to make some of the newer, Star-tier CVs stand out, they just add the "tactical squadrons" that are just...damage. It's almost boring.
I still feel like the easiest way to change the CV spotting mechanic would have been to change plane spotting from revealing ships for your allies but rather just mark them on their MM. Maybe I‘m missing something here but this seems way more straightforward than whatever the hell WG has cooked up here. I also don’t feel like AA feels useless in the current build of the game but maybe that’s just me.
@@mehmetsahsert3284 Depends on the player i guess, just like have clueless/noob players in any class on your team.. having BB players ignoring to shoot dd whenever spotted are just as bad or maybe even worse, dd will spot regardless maybe not where it is most optimal or convenient for you maybe..
These different altitudes made me remember the Brazilian pilots in WW2 flying for USAAF. They were known for their superior spotting granting them the destruction of "85% of the ammunition depots and 36% of the fuel depots" of their Tactical Air Command. They would circle an area flying high and low for a while hoping to spot camouflaged structures.
I think devs need to add ability for CV to shoot planes even in travel mode after the planes changed mode to attack/recon and have entered AA zone. But if planes just flying above the CV in travel mode the AA shouldn't deal damage. I think this will make attacks from one CV to another more punishing.
In other words, Wargaming found out that someone out there is still playing CVs. It seems a bit of an awkward way to ban a class. But then its strange that Wargaming hasn't succeeded in stopping carrier players from playing the game yet.
AA does not seem much weaker to start with then it currently is, so to me it seems AA is just going to get stronger / worse for cv players if they try to hit targets multiple times, also does this effect every ship with active AA or just the one your aiming for with planes? going to be fun grinding T8 cv's in T10 games, im not too keen on what im seeing as a CV main and may push me away from actually playing CV line but see what they do.
I would love if they would let you position aircraft around the map then with the new update Not full RTS but like. Let me send a squad to this area so I can then manually control them when I want without having to fly across the map Every time
Yeah that would be cool, but I feel like whatever WG does the community will criticize them. The only way most players will accept CVs is if CVs literally cannot deal damage or spot enemies.
Great videa Aerroon - thanks for the update. But wow! The contortions that WG are having to go through to make CVs fit - such complicated mechanics for what seems like pretty sterile gameplay. I wonder whether splitting CVs off into a different game mode would be a better solution? Make the gameplay more interesting for the CV players, remove the frustration from the surface ship players.
How about remove the bots from random battles or atleast improve their ai. I lose because they are on my team almost every time while the enemy team may only have 2 or 3 bots...
@@Aerroon That's a good point, but their current vision just seems too difficult to make work, and by splitting off into a separate game mode WG then has the possibility to make both game modes REALLY fun, without the tension between surface ships and planes. And the premium CVs? They should have extra tricks in the new carrier game mode to make it worthwhile for those who sunk $$ into the game. Just my ten cents worth ...
i personally like these changes as it forces CV players to think twice before attacking but i dont get CV's having controllable secondaries. i mean isn't not having any player controlled armament what made CV's somewhat balanced in the first place. its supposed to be a sitting duck when facing against another surface ship
Well their secondaries have like 20% accuracy when hitting a ship so ig the changes on secondaries is great since their planes are not as useful for spotting like before. Also they need to make changes to the bots that play the game... their accuracy is really bad, and I feel like that needs to improve some.
It was better that the last page of the battle result, where the financial balance of the battle is not shown. I think if a player has a premium account, he ended up with a SMALL earning. If he didn't have a premium account, he definitely ended up in a loss. Which is a long-term phenomenon, which perhaps has the purpose of suppressing playing with CV`s ships? I can't explain it otherwise, because all other ship captains would have made a lot of money with such a result.
@@Aerroon It's simple, in any battle with another ship class outside of CV, if you score more than 100k DMG, you are guaranteed that the financial reward at the end of the battle will be enough for repairs and you will still have a nice profit left. It doesn't even have to exceed that 100k. But if you use CV, then just for going into battle, it immediately counts approximately 250k credits for repairs. Your damage output in the ytube recording was 120 - 130k. after deducting all costs you are left with about 70k credits. IF DAMAGED 120k+ !!! If you don't shoot more than 100k tech, you will be in the red. My normal CV battle is like 40 - 80k DMG. sometimes less, sometimes more. But rarely anymore, I have to be lucky with the composition of teams, ship classes and BR. So I usually end up with a CV at a loss. Which is why I hardly ever play them anymore. At the same time, it was my preferred ship class. By the way, I always fly with the maximum financial and combat bonuses available to me. Jiy ships need to score more than 10k DMG to make the battle economically successful. Of course, the higher the tear, the more you need, but even a BB T10 is enough for around 30k DMG. Anything more is just a bonus. Other reasons why CVs are damaged over others is that they are permanently nerfed. The entire squadron takes off from the ship, but only 2 planes attack. Meanwhile, AAA shoots at everyone in the squadron. For example CV t10 Hakuryu flies with 12 aircraft. They will attack 2. If they survive the attack, they will fly to the ship to rearm. So there should theoretically be 10 planes left for the next attack. But after the first attack, in the best case, there will be 6 of them left, because the rest were shot down by AAA without participating in their own attack. And most of them will be damaged by AAA. Well, let's fly on. if i turn to attack the same ship again, the AAA will shoot down another 2-3 planes. 3 aircraft capable of attack remain. 2 will attack again. If I'm lucky, they'll both be able to launch torpedoes. And I can go back to the ship for another squadron because the last plane is shot down by AAA again. If I'm not lucky, the last 3 planes will be shot down by AAA before they can launch the torpedoes, because they are already damaged after the first raid. It's like a BB aiming a whole battery of cannons at the enemy, but it could only fire two of them and the others would have to wait for a reload while still being under fire from the enemy. And that's only attacking ONE enemy. If there are more of them together, the CV will not be able to attack even the first target. All aircraft will be shot down by AAA. At the same time, AAA is being improved more and more. Currently, another CV rework is being tested, when it seems that the whole squadron will no longer fly with attacking planes and one more plane will be added to the attack, but the strength of AAA is increasing again. I haven't seen any video where all three planes were able to launch torpedoes, always at least one was shot down and about half of the time two out of three were shot down. In addition, CV will no longer have the opportunity to receive a reward at least for spotting. So if he doesn't make a blind attack raid for spotting purposes, when will he lose some aircraft to AAA's account. On the contrary, it will depend on spotting the target by other ships from the team. It all started with the first CV rework. At that time, all squadrons were flown at the same time and all aircraft in the squadron attacked at the same time. YES, CV was able to win the entire battle almost by herself. But the player had to be able to handle it and not be dependent on what the enemy AAA would allow him. My best performance with CV was just under 300k DMG but that was just before the first rework. With him, I can count the DMG in a battle over 150k on one, two hands at most. The rest is 90% under 100K and the average will be between 40-80k. So to summarize: - CV has by far the worst financial evaluation of all ships - CV flies with the whole squadron, but only 2 attack - AAA stun and damage the entire squadron /stunt all cannons / - AAA is constantly being improved and strengthened This is my personal opinion that I stand behind, but I am not alone in thinking this. With regards, I wish you good sailing and success in the game. Miroslav btw: due to my bad English, the whole article is translated in Translator, so I apologize for any incomprehensibility.
@@miroslavkluska7910 Jesus...makes me want to sell and convert all my CVs (Save a few that I loved the most.) Into submarines. If CVs become totally useless?! Then CV lovers might as well quit or start maining submarines... I get CVs need a counter. But if it becomes OVERKILL!? Then the CVs are all useless but Russian CVs and a few German meme CVs...
Why didnt they just do minimap spotting. Its going to be awful for the CV, during end game when all the laft is a CV on o e team and DD on the other tgat just runs
I think it's because it won't really solve the problem. At least that's what's claimed on places like reddit. But I've been a proponent of minimap-only spotting for many years. I think this is kind of ok, as long as they make the CVs still fun to play.
no more info about new CV mechanism news progress that the answer that mechanism is riddiculous to implement on live server. 1. attack aircraft not replaced when attack mode that make CV almost impossible to damaging enemy ship 2. secondary manual make the destroyer cannot do stealth attack and completely delete them when get spotted 3. if get implement still no different with old mechanism for soviet CV because they only single attack run with lot of plane. 4. nakhimov has 4x4 secondary gun like smolenks, it's completely clap the destroyer when detected on aim range.
This really feels like a set of changes that will annoy everyone, I suspect that CV players will mainly be Russian CVs in the future as they seem to be net beneficiaries from the changes. The current status quo isn't perfect however a small nerf to spotting capability was what the player base was calling for and frankly that could have been changed by decreasing the aerial spotting range of ships across the board. The changes will make dive bombers extremely difficult for CV to play, and the blinding trick has the potential to heavily nerf the number of players playing the CV class in frustration, if WG's objective is to decrease the number of players wanting to play CV they will certainly achieve it, have to say as a player who wants CVs out of Ranked I never thought I would almost get my wish this way. (We'll never be rid of the Russian CVs though)
Well, Russian CVs might be changed as well. I think focusing so heavily on TBs might not go as favorably for the Russian CVs because their TBs tend to be quite squishy. It'll feel even worse after the changes I think.
That sounds like a nice change at first but it fails to address the main problem. They are tackling the wrong part of the issue. It is not about carrier's ability to strike, but inability to defend against it. AA is nothing else but a passive bubble. Against any other attacks, you can effectively try and defend yourself actively - angle armour, dodge, cover, you name it. Planes are manoeuvrable enough to invalidate all these factors and the only way is through a passive bubble. Why does it matter? It removes player's agency from it fighting the carrier - and makes balancing them impossible. Carriers are either useless or overpowered at this stage and there is no inbetween. Even if a single ship can WEAKEN the attack, the attack is still delivered and damage is taken with no option to retaliate. Carrier has effectively infinite ability to strike - so without retaliation, being persistently attacked by a carrier is basically a disconnect timer put on your ship... On the flipside - if AAA works, Carrier becomes uselsss.
Even if planes had 1 hp, you players would always complain. CV's look pathetic right now as it can never attack where a bunch of ships are cramped together, let alone spot closer. And I only see 1 or 2 ships moving solo in middle of map
I don't fully agree. I think it'll depend on the final numbers, but torpedo bombers are mostly about getting used to them. Dive bombers I agree with. I have hope that they will add speed change back though.
Some of the biggest issues with CVs are, spotting, attacking you over and over and over, keep DDs spotted until they are dead, DDs can't cap and a good CV player can win the game for you and a bad CV player can cost you the game. CVs are to powerful.
I really don't agree with a lot of this rework on the CV side. They're going beyond just nerfing CVs as a class, they've actually just made a lot of CVs completely unviable to play in a standard 12v12 randoms match. CVs already had the worst exp and credit economy in the game, negatively compounded by the credit and xp eco nerfs that happened a while ago now and credit and xp cost increases that happened before the eco nerfs. Why should a sub and dd that assist each other in taking two caps, get no kills, and deal around 50k damage each get more xp and credits than a cv with 262k damage, 6 kills, a solo cap, and a solo warrior award (yes, this was based off a real game I had about a year ago, both the sub and dd got more xp than me - I even tracked what they did in the WoWs discord replay manager). Not to mention with the nerfs to the ships themselves that have been had throughout the years - the German CVs and Enterprise as a whole feel miserable to play from the AP bomb aim nerf, Japanese CVs have had their only viable armament chipped away at for years and is looking to be nerfed yet again, and if they split up the squadrons of Soviet CVs then both them and the Japanese lines will barely have enough hp to get one plane through on a single ship with even mediocre AA, Bearn had its skip bomber damage heavily reduced and will be completely unviable to play due to how much long you'll have to wait to attack with the new system if they add the leadup timer to the current attack timer, the FDR is a waste of steel that's barely able to clear 80k on a good day with how fast and frequently blowouts occur, and the Midway line and British CVs won't barely be able to use their bombers anymore due to how much more AA damage they'll take from how slow they are. All these nerfs will only be compounded and magnified once the changes go through. If anything, I'd say that the Essex line and Hornet are the only ones to get off relatively light purely because they have special armaments that can either be thrown away for information or are tanky enough to get through the new AA changes, respectively. I know I'm just complaining at this point, but I genuinely love playing this game and want all classes to be able to work well. These changes, at least on the CV side, are going to make CVs way too miserable to play for anyone but battle-carrier memers to bother with. And even then, they'll probably last about a week due to how the CV secondaries get no meaningful upgrades or baked-in stats to their damage or pen values (aside from the Japanese 100mm guns getting 30mm pen). We've already had solutions laid out by innumerable community members that boil down to "make AA do more damage when grouped up" and "make aircraft have a proximity spotting mechanic that marks ships on the minimap for allies outside a certain range." Those simple implementations would fix CVs as they are currently implemented in the game - rewarding players for using teamwork (something that is seldom done these days), and not painting a huge target on any single ship for the whole team to shoot at.
I know what you're saying, but I think as things are currently CVs could never 'feel' really strong (with some exceptions) because there just isn't much room to give them more power. The spotting they provide is so oppressive (but not fun) that any buffs to them will be met with scorn by the community.
@@Aerroon I agree the spotting cvs provide is way too oppressive. But another property that WG has in WoWs: Legends already fixed the plane spotting issue. In that game, the planes can only extend their spotting out to a certain radius. Once allied ships are beyond that radius then they essentially have cyclone spotting and can only see the enemy on the minimap. Granted, cvs in Legends are still apparently pretty strong, but that seems to be the case of the Legends team being unable to properly balance cvs since they've always had a higher power level in that version of the game compared to the PC version. If that spotting system were to be implemented, then all that would be left is to buff AA damage itself. A game-wide buff would be the first part of it, giving ships at least a 30% boost to their AA damage. The second part of it would be giving a percentage of AA to ships that stay near each other, say, 10% of each ship's AA damage would be added to yours as long as you're in their AA range. Ships would stay grouped up during carrier matches much more often, and it would give ships that build into AA like Worcester and Friesland an actually useful niche since everyone's AA would be buffed by a huge amount when staying together. My main issue is that these changes just feel too complicated for how simple the solution actually is, as the heads at WG tends to make their own (usually less effective) solutions rather than just listening to the community.
They should also make the asw planes spot other ships like dds bc a bb without hydro or sonar is vulnerable to dd attacks... I hope they make these changes to make asw planes more useful
18:35 this is actually a great change because CVS would commonly shoot out their planes right before their ship gets destroyed and use those planes to annoy other players
Yeah...This CV nerfing shit is OVERKILL and would make CV lovers quit or convert into submarine mains. Why not Make CVs be allowed to spot. But make it where ONLY the CV spots the enemies. While the minimap is updated to where the red outline of the ship is positioned. As in The enemy ship that is SPOTTED by the CV planes. Only the CV spots them in full. While other players cannot outright see you but know you're in that area now. (Like located.) The only time the rest can see you. Is when you engage AA guns at the CV planes. That would address most spotting issues. Want CV's to still MASS spot? Then they need to sacrifice fighter squadrons for SPOTTER squadrons. Spotter squadrons can spot ships pretty well and serve as the old CV plane spotters Allowing players to have their way with enemies. But the spotters cannot attack fighters and other aircraft. And also They can be shot down. (CV fighter planes can be used to intercept the spotter planes.) This would nerf CV's to be less BS. But if you still HATE CVs?! Then make all cruiser ships with the AA rework solely for them. They can auto spray and pray AA. Or You can toggle to AA mode and aim your flak guns and Dual-purpose guns at the planes by yourself. Giving cruiser players a brand-new role. Skilled AA users can clean house with their AA and cripple or outright smash all the planes at once! Yes I will HATE IT! But it will make most cruisers a NO fly/high risk zone. ensure CV's now have one real weakness. That will at least address the CV issue to a more reasonable level. Make CVs still good so they can have fun and win if they do it right. But also make it where surface ships can be less frustrated as well.
man theese cvs are depressing to even watch. let alone playing. no more a cv main i suppose. i absolutely hate it. way too complicated when it could have been an easier fix of just reducing the spotting range of planes on non aa firing enemy ships. or minimap spotting as some other people suggested. only thing i like in this rework is the manual secondaries which felt extrremely needed for carriers
I don't think it's that complicated. It's almost the same thing without the spotting. Although I do agree that having some spotting would've been useful at least.
The fact that the attacking element isn't getting instantly reinforced alone has me excited, now I don't need to chew through 60-80% of a squadron to cut into the damage potential of a single strike package.
This.... actually sounds interesting. It definitely seems like they are taking steps in the right direction which is good. However, I still am on the stand point that, even after all the reworks, subs are A LOT more broken than CVs are right now. Another thing about this rework though is that for a lot of CVs, I THINK... this will balance things. It will certainly be nice that if they focus on one ship, then they take more damage. However, some carriers will have only to gain from this.... one such CV being the FDR. They will have to nerf the FDR quite a bit because with how this CV rework is, its planes protective flight mode will only make it that much more OP. Because one the hardest things about the FDR is that its planes fly slow, so you have to be careful about maneuvering into a group of ships and getting a lot of AA fire to shoot your planes down with no quick way to get out of it. But if your allies are spotting for you while your planes are flying in a protected mode, then you can just wait to go into attack mode when you're close to a target.... and the FDR plane slow flight speed is no longer an issue. Then with the FDR planes having really high health and hitting like a truck like no other CV.... it will just obliterate everything in its path.
just make cv to send planes to a target or do a recon flight with scouts on designated spot. player has to manage ship logistics and plane repair & loadouts rather then control squadrons. don't like this world of warplanes gameplay.
I tested it. Train wreck. They will lose a LOT of players unless they do better than that. why not stop gun ships from firing all the time at one target? is that not irritating for players steaming through the map... wargaming need to do a lot better, this is over thinking of the lowest order.
aa is better if you build for it. also it matters what ship youre sailing. you have no right to expect to shoot down 90 planes playing an non aa build musashi
@@Aerroon Look at a AA build now and compare it to the test server. Second, AA defensive fire bonus removed. I saw a vid how a GK was constant hit within 2 minutes by Midway torps, he lost 58k health and a perma flood. Now the planes strike even faster.
@Aerroon bot ai macanics need to be improved... the bots are so dumb in this game, and I lose bc of them being on my team while the enemy has 2 or 3 on their team
Agreed, you are a very talented player. So, in your first try, you got 130K against four ships. That's a score of 400 k with a regular random game. It's another scam to give CVs more automation and tricks. Just another excuse to buff carriers, screw surface ships and to sell more carriers. Make AA real again for the rest of us, shut down the endless plane factories, let fires burn like in real warfare, and stop giving CVs every advantage. If they continue to ignore this, keep on screwing their community further with fake subs and fake cv's, then even more people will. just. quit. Like me. You'll be playing teams of 2 soon. Too bad, I enjoyed your videos. Better start finding another game.
Sorry for the absence. This video took quite a bit longer than I thought and I was busy with some other stuff.
this sounds like some steps in the right direction. The manual secondaries will at least be meme-worthy for anyone that hasn't been paying attention.
Yup!!
Not happy about that, it's like a light cruiser now. More immunity for the CVs...
@@lucianotesta5019in a real match with functional humans its not that bad. Matches filled with AI will not reflect live server gameplay. CVs wasting time shooting their guns and not using planes makes them less useful, not more useful.
@@SteelxWolf That really depends on the on the situation and CV. The increased accuracy by manually controlling them allows you to absolutely melt any DDs that try to gun down the carrier, so now gunboats will have to be very careful about what carriers they try to engage since many out dpm them by a lot.
Manual secondaries? Looks like an Assault Carrier now lmao (thats what i call cv if they ran out of planes and decide to push along with the team if german cv still has those secondaries like GZ)
If the attacks from CVs are getting weaker because you can’t replace planes in the strike if they die, then either the strike needs to hit SIGNIFICANTLY harder, or we need more planes per strike. Having the option to just get your entire attack canceled because someone looked over and pressed O, then completely ignoring you isn’t exactly a good thing.
I think that you missed the point. Wargaming doesn't want you to play CVs.
Exactly. Hakuryu just won't be able to use her AP bombers and actually anything XD
Finally, Aerroon tries it out.
Carriers with Main guns will be menacing, especially for the Nakhimov and GZ later on 😂
Smolensk firepower on both sides 💀
The testing scenario is compromised, a 4x4 with 2 CV's on each team is vastly different to live server with 12x12 and usually 1 CV per team. Also, on the test server, everyone will be AA build whereas on the liver server, no-one builds for AA unless you are Halland. They cannot expect to derive any meaningful balancing information out of this test
It's not about balancing though. They want to see whether these changes are actually workable. The initial test, for example, showed that the attack patterns are difficult enough to execute that for a lot of CV players it becomes unfun. This is why the attack patterns were improved in the current iteration of the test (delays reduced).
i have to say the changes are growing on me. travelmode is realy nice to get where you are needed and accidental CV spotting is gone completely, you now have to choose to spot in an area and its pretty limited. the biggest issue is that CVs can only attack single targets now, 2-3 ships close to each other have enough AA-dpm to shoot down any attackflight before it can drop its load. i guess they will make attackflights have more planes and reduce the damage per bomb/torp/rocket like with haku torpbombers.
Yeah, I didn't like them at all initially, but when I played more of them it also grew on me
2 3 ships bunched together (well it depends what ship they are) always had the necessary aa power to shoot down an entire sortie. just not before the sortie itself dropped the armaments. people want to get no damage at all which i find hypocritical. they never consider the carrier who in order to deal you 14k in torp damage has just lost 12 torpedo planes to you and your 2 friends. thats 12 FUKİNG PLANES MAN. i takes at the least 12 minutes to replenish that many planes. thats an immediate loss for the carrier there losing 12 planes for measely 14k damage. but people never saw this side of the things. and now its getting even worse.
CV's sniping other CV's is gonna be huge if these changes remain the same/similar
Yeah, that could be an issue since you can just fly across the map in travel mode.
@@Aerroon yes! but the other changes also feed into that, dfaa blinding you discourages you from going against cruisers and some destroyers/battleships (especially at high tier where dfaa is everywhere), and from what I can see the clunkyness of going from travel mode to attack mode gives the enemy ship enough time to dodge unless they’re distracted. Plus the planes in the attack run dying cuts the damage and encourages you to drop from further away.I reckon if these changes go through as is, CVs will just snipe each other because every other target is just too difficult.
@@evilkookie6493 cvs will die if the changes go through as it is. the current cvs already have reduced damage numbers compared to rts cvs and now they are making it 5 times more complicated with no benefit coming around.
These changes are a big nerf for most CV's effectiveness but in the hands of a strong CV player a massive buff when playing Russian CV, 4/5 CV we see in the game will be Russian going fwd, Nakhimov is going to be brutal to face.
With a lot of new aa mechanics, including actual flak. I feel like the RTS system would end up being more balanced now than before. There are at least 100 more cruisers that are flak barges in game than we had years ago. This rework makes me want RTS even more. Its just useless
So, instead of carriers being as powerful as they were in reality, the devs nerfed them down to what’s in the live servers. Players still were doing good with them, so they’re getting nerfed into obsolescence.
I can't wait to see a graf zeppelin replay after these secondary changes come through 😂
Oh man, that's gonna be awesome!
Interesting video. Can't wait ti try this new mechanics
I understand it`s a test server for core changes but even if they adjust plane HP, DMG and AA stats, playing CV didn't feel fun to me on the PTR.
From travel mode to releasing your payload, you need to shift your mode, wait an animation, wait for a timer, wait for another attack timer, start your attack run, wait again until your reticle is green and only then you can attack.
It's just an over convoluted mess. And a big skill floor increase for the average players.
I mean this change is because of the player base complaining about cvs all the time for years...
I think the lack of speed boost is a huge factor in how fun it feels.
@@AnthonyDiValentin-cv4bn player base are idiots. they will still complain if you make carriers launch single planes with 1 hp. they will always find a reason to complain. they dont build their ships towars anti air and they cry how they are vulnerable against cvs over and over again. rts cvs was the strongest cvs ever was. then the rework happened and cvs got tremendously weak. yet people still complained. devs murdered the rocket planes, players still complained, and now this rework will come and they will keep on complaining. remember folks carriers are in the weakest state they have ever been in their history in this games almost 10 years of history.
I love CVs and the changes look promising.
2:50 "The rest of your squad does not take any anti-air damage" - proceeds to almost lose the entire squadron and then *does* lose the entire squadron on the Hakuryu to a single Worcester. What?
I guess they decided to just straight up kill CVs now. If you keep losing 60-100% of your squadron after every attack, even if it's just 1-2 ships, you will run out them by the 5th minute. Maybe that's why the manual secondaries? You're supposed to lose all planes immediately and then go pretend to be a cruiser?
12:36 AP Dive bomber from MVR looking in the corner:
Fine. I'LL DO IT MYSELF.
First question: Are the people complaining about bots being bad... are they complaining about bad AA and flak bursts? Are they complaining about the co-op battles vs. AI? Or are there that many bot accounts in random battles still?
I took a two year break, getting back into things now, and I've been a bit of a CV main.
These changes seem a little tedious. I like the speed boost that you can use to zoom around the map, and I also enjoy varying my speed and aircraft direction to dodge flak.
If WG wants to make these changes to the way CV strikes work there has to be something different with the way the attacks work. Having two or even three aircraft in a flight (depending on tier, payload, speed, HP, etc.) might be too little and render attacks ineffective, inefficient, and leave you twiddling your thumbs doing next to nothing. I'm thinking of Saipan, here, with very limited aircraft quantities, which can find itself up against Tier X ships.
I guess I'll just have to try their proposed changes when another test comes around. I see some people asking for RTS back, but I wasn't playing CVs then and can't give an opinion. I do like the idea of being able to be in multiple places at once but I'm just not sure how WG can make CVs fun for everyone. There's a reason why they turned naval warfare upside down and its proving difficult to keep them in line here IMO.
I wonder if WG would try some things that would let CVs contribute in more ways than just combat. I know they added some smoke screen dropping with support CVs but, in all of them, they could take this a step further. You could have things like:
Spotter aircraft loiter OR fighters
Spotter aircraft squadron
Sonar/hydrophone buoy drop
Minelayer/minesweeping
Airborne warning/control squadron or loiter that buffs friendly fighters and AA
Squadron or loiter that boosts capture time of friendlies
Squadron or loiter that increases or decreases point gain from points
Loiter that increases friendly Radar or sonar/hydrophone range and/or duration
Loiter that decreases shell scatter of friendly boats
With these loiters or squadrons, they could make you choose between fighter loiter and squadron loiter; they could make you choose between squadrons, too. And/or there could be a "support" squadron that makes you choose between some of these different team-supporting functions. With an RTS mode it'd be cool to use some of these effects together but when they're active they disable that squadron from making attack runs, like they're forced to drop their loiter and then return to the ship (and can't relaunch until it's finished/cancelled/shot down). Or you make your squadron be the loiter! lots of ways to do it.
They could also implement mechanics like a fuel timer for your squadrons, or delay squadron formation when you're trying to land aircraft at the same time (or make it impossible). I'm just spit-balling here so I'll stop, but it's so strange to me that to make some of the newer, Star-tier CVs stand out, they just add the "tactical squadrons" that are just...damage. It's almost boring.
I still feel like the easiest way to change the CV spotting mechanic would have been to change plane spotting from revealing ships for your allies but rather just mark them on their MM. Maybe I‘m missing something here but this seems way more straightforward than whatever the hell WG has cooked up here. I also don’t feel like AA feels useless in the current build of the game but maybe that’s just me.
dds are too stupid to spot sometimes tho. there should be another way to spot always.
@@mehmetsahsert3284 Depends on the player i guess, just like have clueless/noob players in any class on your team.. having BB players ignoring to shoot dd whenever spotted are just as bad or maybe even worse, dd will spot regardless maybe not where it is most optimal or convenient for you maybe..
m-manual secondaries?! that looks so coool !
These different altitudes made me remember the Brazilian pilots in WW2 flying for USAAF. They were known for their superior spotting granting them the destruction of "85% of the ammunition depots and 36% of the fuel depots" of their Tactical Air Command. They would circle an area flying high and low for a while hoping to spot camouflaged structures.
I think devs need to add ability for CV to shoot planes even in travel mode after the planes changed mode to attack/recon and have entered AA zone.
But if planes just flying above the CV in travel mode the AA shouldn't deal damage.
I think this will make attacks from one CV to another more punishing.
Thanks for the info.
In other words, Wargaming found out that someone out there is still playing CVs. It seems a bit of an awkward way to ban a class. But then its strange that Wargaming hasn't succeeded in stopping carrier players from playing the game yet.
AA does not seem much weaker to start with then it currently is, so to me it seems AA is just going to get stronger / worse for cv players if they try to hit targets multiple times, also does this effect every ship with active AA or just the one your aiming for with planes? going to be fun grinding T8 cv's in T10 games, im not too keen on what im seeing as a CV main and may push me away from actually playing CV line but see what they do.
I think just time spent in the AA increases the meter, so every ship.
I would love if they would let you position aircraft around the map then with the new update
Not full RTS but like. Let me send a squad to this area so I can then manually control them when I want without having to fly across the map Every time
Yeah that would be cool, but I feel like whatever WG does the community will criticize them. The only way most players will accept CVs is if CVs literally cannot deal damage or spot enemies.
Annoyingly so, same with subs anything that they can't shot back rightaway is unfair, its kinda sad
Great videa Aerroon - thanks for the update. But wow! The contortions that WG are having to go through to make CVs fit - such complicated mechanics for what seems like pretty sterile gameplay. I wonder whether splitting CVs off into a different game mode would be a better solution? Make the gameplay more interesting for the CV players, remove the frustration from the surface ship players.
How about remove the bots from random battles or atleast improve their ai. I lose because they are on my team almost every time while the enemy team may only have 2 or 3 bots...
A different game mode just means the class is completely dead though. What's WG gonna do? Start refunding all of the premium CVs?
@@Aerroon That's a good point, but their current vision just seems too difficult to make work, and by splitting off into a separate game mode WG then has the possibility to make both game modes REALLY fun, without the tension between surface ships and planes. And the premium CVs? They should have extra tricks in the new carrier game mode to make it worthwhile for those who sunk $$ into the game. Just my ten cents worth ...
i personally like these changes as it forces CV players to think twice before attacking but i dont get CV's having controllable secondaries. i mean isn't not having any player controlled armament what made CV's somewhat balanced in the first place. its supposed to be a sitting duck when facing against another surface ship
Well their secondaries have like 20% accuracy when hitting a ship so ig the changes on secondaries is great since their planes are not as useful for spotting like before. Also they need to make changes to the bots that play the game... their accuracy is really bad, and I feel like that needs to improve some.
Adding manual secoderys for bbs ....and how do you balance anything else?
Farm spotting damage with CVs will be more difficult
Yes, very much so! This is the main thing I'm looking forward to with the changes.
It was better that the last page of the battle result, where the financial balance of the battle is not shown. I think if a player has a premium account, he ended up with a SMALL earning. If he didn't have a premium account, he definitely ended up in a loss. Which is a long-term phenomenon, which perhaps has the purpose of suppressing playing with CV`s ships? I can't explain it otherwise, because all other ship captains would have made a lot of money with such a result.
I don't really know about this either. I haven't paid attention to the economy in such a long time now.
@@Aerroon It's simple, in any battle with another ship class outside of CV, if you score more than 100k DMG, you are guaranteed that the financial reward at the end of the battle will be enough for repairs and you will still have a nice profit left. It doesn't even have to exceed that 100k. But if you use CV, then just for going into battle, it immediately counts approximately 250k credits for repairs. Your damage output in the ytube recording was 120 - 130k. after deducting all costs you are left with about 70k credits. IF DAMAGED 120k+ !!!
If you don't shoot more than 100k tech, you will be in the red.
My normal CV battle is like 40 - 80k DMG. sometimes less, sometimes more. But rarely anymore, I have to be lucky with the composition of teams, ship classes and BR.
So I usually end up with a CV at a loss. Which is why I hardly ever play them anymore. At the same time, it was my preferred ship class. By the way, I always fly with the maximum financial and combat bonuses available to me.
Jiy ships need to score more than 10k DMG to make the battle economically successful. Of course, the higher the tear, the more you need, but even a BB T10 is enough for around 30k DMG. Anything more is just a bonus.
Other reasons why CVs are damaged over others is that they are permanently nerfed.
The entire squadron takes off from the ship, but only 2 planes attack. Meanwhile, AAA shoots at everyone in the squadron. For example CV t10 Hakuryu flies with 12 aircraft. They will attack 2. If they survive the attack, they will fly to the ship to rearm. So there should theoretically be 10 planes left for the next attack.
But after the first attack, in the best case, there will be 6 of them left, because the rest were shot down by AAA without participating in their own attack. And most of them will be damaged by AAA. Well, let's fly on. if i turn to attack the same ship again, the AAA will shoot down another 2-3 planes. 3 aircraft capable of attack remain. 2 will attack again. If I'm lucky, they'll both be able to launch torpedoes. And I can go back to the ship for another squadron because the last plane is shot down by AAA again. If I'm not lucky, the last 3 planes will be shot down by AAA before they can launch the torpedoes, because they are already damaged after the first raid. It's like a BB aiming a whole battery of cannons at the enemy, but it could only fire two of them and the others would have to wait for a reload while still being under fire from the enemy.
And that's only attacking ONE enemy. If there are more of them together, the CV will not be able to attack even the first target. All aircraft will be shot down by AAA.
At the same time, AAA is being improved more and more.
Currently, another CV rework is being tested, when it seems that the whole squadron will no longer fly with attacking planes and one more plane will be added to the attack, but the strength of AAA is increasing again. I haven't seen any video where all three planes were able to launch torpedoes, always at least one was shot down and about half of the time two out of three were shot down. In addition, CV will no longer have the opportunity to receive a reward at least for spotting. So if he doesn't make a blind attack raid for spotting purposes, when will he lose some aircraft to AAA's account. On the contrary, it will depend on spotting the target by other ships from the team.
It all started with the first CV rework.
At that time, all squadrons were flown at the same time and all aircraft in the squadron attacked at the same time. YES, CV was able to win the entire battle almost by herself. But the player had to be able to handle it and not be dependent on what the enemy AAA would allow him.
My best performance with CV was just under 300k DMG but that was just before the first rework. With him, I can count the DMG in a battle over 150k on one, two hands at most. The rest is 90% under 100K and the average will be between 40-80k.
So to summarize:
- CV has by far the worst financial evaluation of all ships
- CV flies with the whole squadron, but only 2 attack
- AAA stun and damage the entire squadron /stunt all cannons /
- AAA is constantly being improved and strengthened
This is my personal opinion that I stand behind, but I am not alone in thinking this.
With regards, I wish you good sailing and success in the game. Miroslav
btw: due to my bad English, the whole article is translated in Translator, so I apologize for any incomprehensibility.
@@miroslavkluska7910 Jesus...makes me want to sell and convert all my CVs (Save a few that I loved the most.) Into submarines.
If CVs become totally useless?! Then CV lovers might as well quit or start maining submarines...
I get CVs need a counter. But if it becomes OVERKILL!? Then the CVs are all useless but Russian CVs and a few German meme CVs...
Why didnt they just do minimap spotting. Its going to be awful for the CV, during end game when all the laft is a CV on o e team and DD on the other tgat just runs
I think it's because it won't really solve the problem. At least that's what's claimed on places like reddit. But I've been a proponent of minimap-only spotting for many years. I think this is kind of ok, as long as they make the CVs still fun to play.
i feel like It's going to be fun to play CV
Oh? I think you might be right but it'll depend on the CV.
no more info about new CV mechanism news progress that the answer that mechanism is riddiculous to implement on live server.
1. attack aircraft not replaced when attack mode that make CV almost impossible to damaging enemy ship
2. secondary manual make the destroyer cannot do stealth attack and completely delete them when get spotted
3. if get implement still no different with old mechanism for soviet CV because they only single attack run with lot of plane.
4. nakhimov has 4x4 secondary gun like smolenks, it's completely clap the destroyer when detected on aim range.
I cannot wait to play Graf Zeppelin... I miss manual secondaries on my BB's.
This really feels like a set of changes that will annoy everyone, I suspect that CV players will mainly be Russian CVs in the future as they seem to be net beneficiaries from the changes. The current status quo isn't perfect however a small nerf to spotting capability was what the player base was calling for and frankly that could have been changed by decreasing the aerial spotting range of ships across the board. The changes will make dive bombers extremely difficult for CV to play, and the blinding trick has the potential to heavily nerf the number of players playing the CV class in frustration, if WG's objective is to decrease the number of players wanting to play CV they will certainly achieve it, have to say as a player who wants CVs out of Ranked I never thought I would almost get my wish this way. (We'll never be rid of the Russian CVs though)
Well, Russian CVs might be changed as well. I think focusing so heavily on TBs might not go as favorably for the Russian CVs because their TBs tend to be quite squishy. It'll feel even worse after the changes I think.
That sounds like a nice change at first but it fails to address the main problem. They are tackling the wrong part of the issue. It is not about carrier's ability to strike, but inability to defend against it.
AA is nothing else but a passive bubble.
Against any other attacks, you can effectively try and defend yourself actively - angle armour, dodge, cover, you name it.
Planes are manoeuvrable enough to invalidate all these factors and the only way is through a passive bubble.
Why does it matter? It removes player's agency from it fighting the carrier - and makes balancing them impossible.
Carriers are either useless or overpowered at this stage and there is no inbetween.
Even if a single ship can WEAKEN the attack, the attack is still delivered and damage is taken with no option to retaliate.
Carrier has effectively infinite ability to strike - so without retaliation, being persistently attacked by a carrier is basically a disconnect timer put on your ship...
On the flipside - if AAA works, Carrier becomes uselsss.
Even if planes had 1 hp, you players would always complain. CV's look pathetic right now as it can never attack where a bunch of ships are cramped together, let alone spot closer. And I only see 1 or 2 ships moving solo in middle of map
the 2nd CV rework makes SS gameplay more fun lmao
I don't fully agree. I think it'll depend on the final numbers, but torpedo bombers are mostly about getting used to them. Dive bombers I agree with.
I have hope that they will add speed change back though.
If they make haku with 15km range and Haru style guns I'll be super happy gunboating around
That would be pretty funny.
imo the old Haku 4 torp planes should be back if the new mechanics will be on live servers
That's definitely something they should look into I think.
Control’s secondary guns. 5 bucks to anyone US mains start to ask for Lexington to have her 8in guns back
Just give us RTS back.
They should also improve bot Ai because the bots are too easy to kill
True!
Make rockets easier to land/hit. Now you must really aim in advance. Rather make them shoot away directly.
CV with 15.6 km secondary. i thing it should be 12.5 km like ger BB.
Some of the biggest issues with CVs are, spotting, attacking you over and over and over, keep DDs spotted until they are dead, DDs can't cap and a good CV player can win the game for you and a bad CV player can cost you the game. CVs are to powerful.
How about bot ai?
I feel like the bots in the game need to be improved
Can you test Nakhimov? I wonder they function now
Sorry the test is long over by now and Nakhimov was not available during it.
I really don't agree with a lot of this rework on the CV side. They're going beyond just nerfing CVs as a class, they've actually just made a lot of CVs completely unviable to play in a standard 12v12 randoms match. CVs already had the worst exp and credit economy in the game, negatively compounded by the credit and xp eco nerfs that happened a while ago now and credit and xp cost increases that happened before the eco nerfs. Why should a sub and dd that assist each other in taking two caps, get no kills, and deal around 50k damage each get more xp and credits than a cv with 262k damage, 6 kills, a solo cap, and a solo warrior award (yes, this was based off a real game I had about a year ago, both the sub and dd got more xp than me - I even tracked what they did in the WoWs discord replay manager). Not to mention with the nerfs to the ships themselves that have been had throughout the years - the German CVs and Enterprise as a whole feel miserable to play from the AP bomb aim nerf, Japanese CVs have had their only viable armament chipped away at for years and is looking to be nerfed yet again, and if they split up the squadrons of Soviet CVs then both them and the Japanese lines will barely have enough hp to get one plane through on a single ship with even mediocre AA, Bearn had its skip bomber damage heavily reduced and will be completely unviable to play due to how much long you'll have to wait to attack with the new system if they add the leadup timer to the current attack timer, the FDR is a waste of steel that's barely able to clear 80k on a good day with how fast and frequently blowouts occur, and the Midway line and British CVs won't barely be able to use their bombers anymore due to how much more AA damage they'll take from how slow they are. All these nerfs will only be compounded and magnified once the changes go through. If anything, I'd say that the Essex line and Hornet are the only ones to get off relatively light purely because they have special armaments that can either be thrown away for information or are tanky enough to get through the new AA changes, respectively.
I know I'm just complaining at this point, but I genuinely love playing this game and want all classes to be able to work well. These changes, at least on the CV side, are going to make CVs way too miserable to play for anyone but battle-carrier memers to bother with. And even then, they'll probably last about a week due to how the CV secondaries get no meaningful upgrades or baked-in stats to their damage or pen values (aside from the Japanese 100mm guns getting 30mm pen). We've already had solutions laid out by innumerable community members that boil down to "make AA do more damage when grouped up" and "make aircraft have a proximity spotting mechanic that marks ships on the minimap for allies outside a certain range." Those simple implementations would fix CVs as they are currently implemented in the game - rewarding players for using teamwork (something that is seldom done these days), and not painting a huge target on any single ship for the whole team to shoot at.
I know what you're saying, but I think as things are currently CVs could never 'feel' really strong (with some exceptions) because there just isn't much room to give them more power. The spotting they provide is so oppressive (but not fun) that any buffs to them will be met with scorn by the community.
@@Aerroon I agree the spotting cvs provide is way too oppressive. But another property that WG has in WoWs: Legends already fixed the plane spotting issue. In that game, the planes can only extend their spotting out to a certain radius. Once allied ships are beyond that radius then they essentially have cyclone spotting and can only see the enemy on the minimap. Granted, cvs in Legends are still apparently pretty strong, but that seems to be the case of the Legends team being unable to properly balance cvs since they've always had a higher power level in that version of the game compared to the PC version. If that spotting system were to be implemented, then all that would be left is to buff AA damage itself. A game-wide buff would be the first part of it, giving ships at least a 30% boost to their AA damage. The second part of it would be giving a percentage of AA to ships that stay near each other, say, 10% of each ship's AA damage would be added to yours as long as you're in their AA range. Ships would stay grouped up during carrier matches much more often, and it would give ships that build into AA like Worcester and Friesland an actually useful niche since everyone's AA would be buffed by a huge amount when staying together. My main issue is that these changes just feel too complicated for how simple the solution actually is, as the heads at WG tends to make their own (usually less effective) solutions rather than just listening to the community.
They should also make the asw planes spot other ships like dds bc a bb without hydro or sonar is vulnerable to dd attacks... I hope they make these changes to make asw planes more useful
18:35 this is actually a great change because CVS would commonly shoot out their planes right before their ship gets destroyed and use those planes to annoy other players
Yeah...This CV nerfing shit is OVERKILL and would make CV lovers quit or convert into submarine mains.
Why not Make CVs be allowed to spot. But make it where ONLY the CV spots the enemies. While the minimap is updated to where the red outline of the ship is positioned. As in The enemy ship that is SPOTTED by the CV planes. Only the CV spots them in full. While other players cannot outright see you but know you're in that area now. (Like located.)
The only time the rest can see you. Is when you engage AA guns at the CV planes. That would address most spotting issues.
Want CV's to still MASS spot? Then they need to sacrifice fighter squadrons for SPOTTER squadrons. Spotter squadrons can spot ships pretty well and serve as the old CV plane spotters Allowing players to have their way with enemies. But the spotters cannot attack fighters and other aircraft. And also They can be shot down. (CV fighter planes can be used to intercept the spotter planes.)
This would nerf CV's to be less BS.
But if you still HATE CVs?! Then make all cruiser ships with the AA rework solely for them. They can auto spray and pray AA. Or You can toggle to AA mode and aim your flak guns and Dual-purpose guns at the planes by yourself. Giving cruiser players a brand-new role. Skilled AA users can clean house with their AA and cripple or outright smash all the planes at once!
Yes I will HATE IT! But it will make most cruisers a NO fly/high risk zone. ensure CV's now have one real weakness.
That will at least address the CV issue to a more reasonable level. Make CVs still good so they can have fun and win if they do it right. But also make it where surface ships can be less frustrated as well.
"eventually you get used to it".
oh do you now? just how long has this test mode been up again?
About a week
How will this effect hybrid ships?
No idea. I think even Wargaming doesn't/didn't know at the time.
@@Aerroon okay thanks for answering
😅 Early comment
Also, watching Aerroon playing CVs is always fun.
Thanks!
man theese cvs are depressing to even watch. let alone playing. no more a cv main i suppose. i absolutely hate it. way too complicated when it could have been an easier fix of just reducing the spotting range of planes on non aa firing enemy ships. or minimap spotting as some other people suggested. only thing i like in this rework is the manual secondaries which felt extrremely needed for carriers
I don't think it's that complicated. It's almost the same thing without the spotting. Although I do agree that having some spotting would've been useful at least.
haku is unplayable and the soviet one is unaffected? hmmmmmm
That update seems so perfect and just what we need another nerf to us.
This is so promising
It won't be added
The fact that the attacking element isn't getting instantly reinforced alone has me excited, now I don't need to chew through 60-80% of a squadron to cut into the damage potential of a single strike package.
This.... actually sounds interesting. It definitely seems like they are taking steps in the right direction which is good. However, I still am on the stand point that, even after all the reworks, subs are A LOT more broken than CVs are right now.
Another thing about this rework though is that for a lot of CVs, I THINK... this will balance things. It will certainly be nice that if they focus on one ship, then they take more damage. However, some carriers will have only to gain from this.... one such CV being the FDR. They will have to nerf the FDR quite a bit because with how this CV rework is, its planes protective flight mode will only make it that much more OP. Because one the hardest things about the FDR is that its planes fly slow, so you have to be careful about maneuvering into a group of ships and getting a lot of AA fire to shoot your planes down with no quick way to get out of it. But if your allies are spotting for you while your planes are flying in a protected mode, then you can just wait to go into attack mode when you're close to a target.... and the FDR plane slow flight speed is no longer an issue. Then with the FDR planes having really high health and hitting like a truck like no other CV.... it will just obliterate everything in its path.
Yeah, it could definitely be a problem.
just make cv to send planes to a target or do a recon flight with scouts on designated spot. player has to manage ship logistics and plane repair & loadouts rather then control squadrons. don't like this world of warplanes gameplay.
Hmm gone are the days when you shot down 70 planes?
Sorry but this all way to gimicky, the average CV player will just leave the game.
Honestly, remove torpedo bomber heal
I think that would just either kill CVs or they will get some kind of giga buff somewhere else to compensate
Nah, say remove the whole torpedo bomber type! 👌👌
Cv requiring more thinking? Nepo baby must have stopped playing wows
I tested it. Train wreck. They will lose a LOT of players unless they do better than that. why not stop gun ships from firing all the time at one target? is that not irritating for players steaming through the map... wargaming need to do a lot better, this is over thinking of the lowest order.
I am glad cvs are getting nerfed, although I just wish aa was better
dd bots need a buff
aa is better if you build for it. also it matters what ship youre sailing. you have no right to expect to shoot down 90 planes playing an non aa build musashi
Changing gameplay mechanics, means now buffing CV’s and nerfing AA defense, well done WG 😢
Err, AA isn't being nerfed though? And where in all of this do you see it as a CV buff?
@@Aerroon Look at a AA build now and compare it to the test server. Second, AA defensive fire bonus removed. I saw a vid how a GK was constant hit within 2 minutes by Midway torps, he lost 58k health and a perma flood. Now the planes strike even faster.
@Aerroon bot ai macanics need to be improved... the bots are so dumb in this game, and I lose bc of them being on my team while the enemy has 2 or 3 on their team
Agreed, you are a very talented player. So, in your first try, you got 130K against four ships. That's a score of 400 k with a regular random game. It's another scam to give CVs more automation and tricks. Just another excuse to buff carriers, screw surface ships and to sell more carriers. Make AA real again for the rest of us, shut down the endless plane factories, let fires burn like in real warfare, and stop giving CVs every advantage. If they continue to ignore this, keep on screwing their community further with fake subs and fake cv's, then even more people will. just. quit. Like me. You'll be playing teams of 2 soon. Too bad, I enjoyed your videos. Better start finding another game.
What a broken logic. In a 12v12 ships are cramped aganinst each other. I dare you to make even 100K with a CV other than Nakhimov