ADDITIONS/ERRATA: -I'm not correct that you can use Remove a Condition to remove conditions like confused that take away your agency, since it requires an action. However, I think this is another rough spot in the mythic rules that violates the intent. I would support any GM who decides to houserule this. -A number of comments speculating that Paizo intended the kaiju to be unkillable. But there is a resurrection ability if it "dies," so the regeneration without a weakness combined immunity to death effects is definitely an oversight. -I probably should mention this language from Paizo's Mythic Variant Rules doc: "You can use a loose rule of thumb that says every three mythic tiers the PCs possess is worth the equivalent power of about one level, but this can vary widely based on party composition and the choices they players make when leveling up their mythic characters." Taken literally, this means that L6-11 mythic characters have an effective +1 Level, L12-17 have effectively +2 Levels, and L18+ characters have effectively +3 levels. Of course, this is an admittedly a rough estimate. (And we don't know whether or how this assertion was tested.)
*sets my phone on the counter to finish the video while im cooking* "many people just put me on in the background and tream me as a podcast so ill indulge them" perfect timing XD
I'm more of a group A person for Pathfinder, but for Mythic rules I'm more of a group B. I don't need Mythic to be balanced, the normal game does that fine and not every game is going to be a mythic one. But I do want them to be awesome.
I agree. Though, my perception on mythic comes from the Owlcat game. I want my players to be able to fight a Balor at level 12 and actually have a chance at winning. Otherwise, what's the point of mythic? You're just a normal character until level 12, except for 3 or 4 times a session.
"Agyra the Kaiju can do a burst of speed, traveling a mile, leaving behind a hundred foot burst sonic boom that does 15d10 damage and can deafen permanently. Okay, now let's look at what makes her Mythic." Holy crap, was that first part not mythic enough?!
Haha it is the kind of thing you might see in a Level 23 monster though. This video is about what the mythic rules add. Paizo putting out epic monsters already is its own worst enemy and can't please everyone. You'll see other comments (including in this video) saying that this book is NOT mythic enough *shrugs*
So my party has been playing a zero to hero game where they literally started at the level 0 variant rule as normal townsfolk that get mixed up into something much larger than them. And over a period of years (in and out of game) have grown into great heroes of renown. The game has always been designed to be a level 20 campaign from the beginning, and the idea was to reach levels of legendary proportion. They actually just hit level 12, and we have been looking into mythic. Though, full on mythic feels like it would change the way we've been playing so drastically. So we're thinking of homebrewing; adding the mythic destinies as archetypes, but not using mythic points, mythic dying rules, no rewrite fate, callings, or lower level mythic feats. I would keep hero points, allow them to reroll saves and attacks like normal, stabilize heroes like we always have, but allow them to spend them to activate their mythic abilities from destinies. This would mean that they would not start out with 3 every game, they would need to be heroic, clever, or do a really good job roleplaying to earn them, and be a little more careful whether they want to spend those points on their incredible abilities, or keep themselves alive. I saw the suggestion for using the destinies like archetypes but avoiding the mythic points feats all together, but that just doesn't feel good to me. It might only be dipping a toe into mythic, but I think it will fit our group best.
I think another missed opportunity here was not including actions and abilities on a Kaiju's statblock that just give the effects of a hazard associated with that Kaiju. Give Agyra some unique hazards that could be listed separately and used as is before reaching a point where your players could actually fight her. Whether they should cost Mythic points...I can't be sure. But I think it would've been a cool addition.
The section on her does one stats for 3 hazards, plus there's the hurricane in her statblock Beyond your question, but a number of kaiju "statblocks" in the past provide hazards that aren't really kaiju-specific as well
Incorporating hazard attacks is my favorite way to beef up a solo boss while not making the math terrible, ran a mold dragon a while back that shot balls of spores that would slowly grow and do damage around them
I actually really like the way mythic immunity works, mostly because it stops the party from receiving outside help. It doesn't do much to stop the party themselves, which is good to because powerful creatures like Agyra don't really need more help surviving against the party, but it stops their non-mythic allies. My immediate thought when looking at the Prophecised Monarch was that they could very effectively lead a small army/militia, reducing the damage they take to keep them alive and massively buffing the damage they deal. The option to give Mythic Immunity lets you choose whether that's actually an option against a monster, or it's a showdown of mythic heroes by themselves against the monster (though it would probably be best to let your players recall knowledge to tell in advance, rather than leading their allies to their pointless deaths)
From what I've seen of Mythic it seems like a mixed bag, which is a real shame, because actually playtesting it would have undoubtedly avoided a ton of these complaints. If memory serves they were floating around the idea too, so I can't fathom why that never materialized. Ah well.
Let me Get this straight: Kaiju don't exactly have statblocks, but they are made to have the campaign made around them like they're some sort of "Force of Nature" to be reckon with you. That's Basically Sin from Final Fantasy X.
"What if you get a mythic destiny at Level 2?" Genius. A level 2 prophesied monarch would be an amazing king arthur campaign. I actually think the variant rules vaguely mention this for a sentence, something about a "gritty mythic campaign" suggesting to give higher mythic tier to lower level characters.
Regarding the, "I don't know how you kill this thing," in past editions of D&D, the Tarasque had similar resistance, and an old dungeon master I had said you needed to use two wish spells, one to turn off the healing, the second to kill it while the healing was off. I don't know if that was ever the official published way to kill it, but it inspired me when I see these types of creatures that what I'm meant to do as a GM is come up with an Achilles Heel type weakness that I make finding part of the campaign. Admittedly, though, it would be nice if that was written somewhere if that was the intention.
Gogiteth is one of my favorite 2e monsters and also funny one because its lore implies they hunt in packs meaning they would be mook enemies, but because its much stronger as boss enemy, so far you only see them solo in aps :D I wonder if mythic gogiteth has different lore
Mythic gogiteth is exactly the same but with Mythic Ambusher adjustment, which gives it Resilience in both of its worse saves. No new actions. It is not the Grear Gogiteth mentiones in gogiteth lore, sadly.
I think a big problem with the kaiju sized creatures is their "size". It would be super cool to see a kaiju with actual dimensions instead of just x by x squares, for example having it's feet be the size of large creatures so players can weave between them.
Spirit island is just so good. We went for a board game weekend with a friend to lower his untested games pile, but we ended up doing mostly Spirit Island over and over again
Interesting thing about the monster template is it would also work well if you wanted to introduce the concept of player characters being mythic earlier.
I feel like templates are there just as quick conversion method just like how vampire template is one that recomends that if you have time, you should always build monster from scratch instead of using template
I feel like Mythic Resilience might've been better if you had to spend a mythic point to activate it on a save. This would make it much more costly (since mythic monsters don't have a way to get the mythic points back during combat), but an effect that powerful I think deserves it. You could argue that this would function similarly to legendary resistance in 5e, but with more shades of grey since there are four potential degrees of success or failure instead of two, and the spells in twofinder are less "save or suck" in general. It would also contest with them using mythic points for their other mythic powers like the undying power, so it wouldn't be purely about burning an enemy out of their "legendary resistances" before firing the big spells at them. Or, maybe this could've been made into its own mythic power, and mythic resilience could've just been a flat +4 to the save or something. Also I feel like Mythic Resistance should apply to all attacks made with non-mythic weapons (like how Mythic Immunity works). I mean, that might be how it works right now? I don't know if mythic characters count as mythic creatures, since "creature" is terminology usually left only to monsters iirc? But I could be wrong. It would make more sense that monsters with Mythic Resistance are way harder to damage physically unless you are a dedicated mythic martial wielding a mythical weapon. That way M. Resistance works against all but the best martials and M. Resilience works against all but the best casters. But idk.
I'm not sure but I think you're supposed to write in a weakness for regeneration as a GM. With Xotani, there is a ritual that deactivates its regeneration, while Tarrasque says "has yet to be discovered." So part of mythic adventures could be discovering such things. Due to Mythic resilience in Fortitude saves, not even suffocation can kill Agyra...
I only know what I've seen in preview videos so far, but one way I would expect the on/off resistance to factor in is that its a narrative device made mechanical. As you say, a mythic monster can destroy an army, and the way mythic resistance works makes the players the only heroes that can deal with the monster, even when they have an army with them. It enables putting the characters in the middle of a big epic scene and making it clear what they need to do.
What I don't really like is how they break their own conventions with mythic ambusher and it's representative. The rules talk about how the resilience increases should go from highest save to lowest but then mythic gogigeth goes reflex>will, even if you'd excuse the reflex because of the template the next save should be fortitude, which already was its strongest save which would leave it with clear weakness to target but no, the writer decided it's best to round it out. And that comes to point number 2 how uneven the mythic power ups impact martials and casters. With such all-rounded defense spread even casting at mythic proficiency you are no more effective as you're forced to target the highest save which in big part nullifies the mythic prof number difference and other 2 effectively give incapacitation to all spells that didn't have it and super-incapacitation to those that did, which I feel is just bad design. All the while unless you are skill-action martial there is nothing really impeding you THAT much. So what I want to sum up with is a plea for other gm's to leave weaknesses in, don't create a super-all rounders which can end up frustrating your players with gotcha's. Esp if they recall knowledge at least let them know that the weakest save (which a caster likely asks for) has the stupid resilience while the strongest does not, if you'd be to follow the paizo principle.
I agree, I know it's waaay different from a video game but imagine just randomly throwing out patches and balance updates in a video game without testing anything
Agyra can be killed by suffocation in ocean or such if I'm reading right. EIther way I wouldn't remove her super regeneration, kaiju should be about as hard to kill as tarrasque if not harder xD I'm mostly confused why kaiju lack ability that increases their size larger than gargantuan sized creature because it doesn't make them feel big enough if they are "just" gargantuan x'D
Last I recall, there was ONE feat somewhere that exists (possibly from an archetype or specific to a certain class) that allows you to somehow disable a creature's regeneration even if it's not normally possible with what they're doing. I could be wrong, but I remember it being mentioned somewhere. Honestly, having Mythic options that could disable regeneration effects that normally don't have a way to disable it probably should've been something they made. Then again, people are incentivized to make their own stuff, so...who knows?
I feel the Regeneration is there without a feature to turn it off to make it an unkillable creature most likely. I.E. you can take it down for the moment but now it will be in hibernation for a while, the problem will arise again.
I think the funniest (dumbest) part of how they chose to design mythic monsters can be represented by looking at Vulot and Treerazer. Both are "nascent demon lords", though as Mythic 21 I assume Vulot is intended to be more powerful than Treerazer narratively, maybe one level above him. Yet... They are statistically 4 levels apart. Vulot needs to roll a *17* to hit Treerazer, can't really protect himself from most of the latter's attacks, and generally will just roll over and die even with the full support of mythic protections. I think this is the best representation of how mythic fails to deliver a satisfying feeling of power.
Vulot's biggest cheat is more narrative than anything with how he skips the usual long recovery in his realm as he just picks up another stolen identity. In a way he can take more risks spreading his influence over Treerazer who has to get personal and is on his one-life sentence so it would make some sense that the sneaky cheat is "above" someone more combat capable.
I'm not sure what you're asking for exactly, IF you still want level to mean something. In my pinned comment I quote the Variant Mythic rules doc, which says PCs at this level are effectively 3 levels higher than their actual level. Applying this to Mythic 21 Vulot, it is Level 24. They have decided to NOT make it more powerful than Treerazer.
Mythic seems not like what I was looking for. I am looking for a system that allows over level 20 play but with the same balance. The Battles should be long and epic, like it should be when going against a demon Lord, kaiju or demigod. I am looking for a system that allows me to let my players fight the Osoyo, the Blackfrost Whale ( CR 27) or the Latern King (CR 29) and not a system that brings their CR rating down to 25. It seems that the wait continues. Or in the worst case, I have to build a system such as this myself after all.
@@Mada003akamagikarp How much lifespan do you really think pf2e has? We've had 5 years of pf2e, most rpgs realistically have a lifespan of 5-8 years. Remaster is out, now their "official" mythic rules are out, I really don't think there's enough juice left for another gameplay expansion beyond 20.
The Mixed play is the most dumbfounding incomprehensible and downright irrisory option that has been ever suggested in a PF2e book... Alright guys, we playin Mythic, but here is the interesting thing, only my GF is mythic, he has a great responsibility with her massive power over destiny... but dont worry guys, u get free archetype... yeeei xD /jk
It's alternate on purpose. I can defo see a game where this could work (Say, Kingmaker where one player is a prophecised monarch and the other are knights) so it's reasonable that Paizo explained how it COULD be done... Buh I do agree that it could be easily misused!
Also, thank you to everyone who shares my disappointment in the sizing of these larger than life creatures. A Kaiju should not be able to fit into a medieval tavern comfortably (so long as we disregard the roof)
47:45 I would much prefer to give my non Mythic PCs a second class via Dual Class variant, as to me Free Archetype doesn't come close to making it seem like the mythic and non mythic PCs are on the same tier of play
You can't kill Godzilla or Rodan, only make them go to sleep for a while. I believe this is them putting that on Agyra. You can't kill them, only drive them off.
I like mythic resistance as a gimmick buff If the second-level party will become mythic in the middle of fighting the boss. Other than that it is a rules explanation for why even capable fighters need to turn towards the players to fight back against mythic monsters, but I don't like it. There is no reason to make plot part of the rules.
I think the problem with kaiju, is that "can't be fought with" isn't a suggestion. It's one of the fundamental rules that govern the genre of kaiju. A kaiju with a statblock is just a big monster.
I don't think a confused, controlled, or fleeing creature could take the action to remove the condition due to said conditions defining what actions they can take
@@TheRulesLawyerRPG I think those three conditions specifically should be pretty straightforward. When you're confused you have the actions, you just don't get to choose how to spend them - unless of course you have some extraordinary ability that lets you change the rules! (it's another question entirely if you could remove slowed 3 before it prevented you from regaining actions). And it's a meta choice anyway, your character doesn't know the mechanics of their suffering.
As far as I've heard, they DID playtest it, but they did it privately. Either way, I do feel bit baffled by people saying mythic rules aren't strong enough, especially when people compare to 1e mythic because everyone else I know really hated 1e mythic because it was so stupidly op it stopped being fun to be op.
I'm one of those people and tbh for me it's just because there's not enough passive effects before Lvl 12. If you're playing a low level mythic campaign or are at the start of a mythic campaign and you're not spending a mythic point because your calling or feats don't apply to the situation or you've run out of mythic points, then you're just the same as any other character except you're harder to kill. I'm not saying I want Champion's old "Double the Damage" Perfect Strike but like... just _something_ to differentiate a mythic character from a non-mythic character before lvl 12.
After watching your series I don't feel like this book should even have been atempted. If you want a more powerful character then the GM Core has already great options using free additional archetypes or zeitgeist (dual class) characters. Mythic Resistance/Immunity to strikes should be a flat check vs mythic characters/mythic weapons. Mythic Immunity/Resilience should be rolled together as a flat check vs mythic characters for only the saves they would have mythic resilience to. I would rather have seen the books pages dedicated to extending character progression past level 20.
war of immortals seems like the worst 2e book paizo has made in a long time all class archetypes were a real disaspointed and mythic rules are a sad whimper sompared to 1e mythic rules
I agree. Reminds me of the space book from 5e. Although the new classes look awesome and some errata are needed for some archtypes. The mythic rules pale in comparison to what most people wanted. Paizo is definitely out of touch there. I'm now using Mystic Powers on Pathfinder Infinite, and it's almost exactly what i wanted. Created my first Lord of Hell using the book and I'm loving it.
I wish there were powered down versions of the mythic destinies. They are so cool and flavorful but too strong to be used in a normal campaign imo. But I'd love to...
Woof, were you reading off a script and it kept flipping itself over on your screen? Your speech really sounded much more janky here than we are used to in a lot of places. Yeah, I ran WotR in 1E and it was basically a traumatic experience. Also left a quite negative review thread on the subforum back then, almost ten years ago. The new mythic rules seem better, but I don't think I'll be using them, since I'm just starting to GM my first campaign in about three weeks (Abomination Vaults). Better to get a few campaigns under my belt first before mixing in such potent, not really yet tested, stuff.
ADDITIONS/ERRATA:
-I'm not correct that you can use Remove a Condition to remove conditions like confused that take away your agency, since it requires an action. However, I think this is another rough spot in the mythic rules that violates the intent. I would support any GM who decides to houserule this.
-A number of comments speculating that Paizo intended the kaiju to be unkillable. But there is a resurrection ability if it "dies," so the regeneration without a weakness combined immunity to death effects is definitely an oversight.
-I probably should mention this language from Paizo's Mythic Variant Rules doc: "You can use a loose rule of thumb that says every three mythic tiers the PCs possess is worth the equivalent power of about one level, but this can vary widely based on party composition and the choices they players make when leveling up their mythic characters." Taken literally, this means that L6-11 mythic characters have an effective +1 Level, L12-17 have effectively +2 Levels, and L18+ characters have effectively +3 levels. Of course, this is an admittedly a rough estimate. (And we don't know whether or how this assertion was tested.)
*sets my phone on the counter to finish the video while im cooking*
"many people just put me on in the background and tream me as a podcast so ill indulge them"
perfect timing XD
I'm more of a group A person for Pathfinder, but for Mythic rules I'm more of a group B.
I don't need Mythic to be balanced, the normal game does that fine and not every game is going to be a mythic one. But I do want them to be awesome.
I agree. Though, my perception on mythic comes from the Owlcat game.
I want my players to be able to fight a Balor at level 12 and actually have a chance at winning. Otherwise, what's the point of mythic? You're just a normal character until level 12, except for 3 or 4 times a session.
"Agyra the Kaiju can do a burst of speed, traveling a mile, leaving behind a hundred foot burst sonic boom that does 15d10 damage and can deafen permanently. Okay, now let's look at what makes her Mythic." Holy crap, was that first part not mythic enough?!
Haha it is the kind of thing you might see in a Level 23 monster though.
This video is about what the mythic rules add.
Paizo putting out epic monsters already is its own worst enemy and can't please everyone. You'll see other comments (including in this video) saying that this book is NOT mythic enough *shrugs*
So my party has been playing a zero to hero game where they literally started at the level 0 variant rule as normal townsfolk that get mixed up into something much larger than them. And over a period of years (in and out of game) have grown into great heroes of renown. The game has always been designed to be a level 20 campaign from the beginning, and the idea was to reach levels of legendary proportion. They actually just hit level 12, and we have been looking into mythic. Though, full on mythic feels like it would change the way we've been playing so drastically. So we're thinking of homebrewing; adding the mythic destinies as archetypes, but not using mythic points, mythic dying rules, no rewrite fate, callings, or lower level mythic feats. I would keep hero points, allow them to reroll saves and attacks like normal, stabilize heroes like we always have, but allow them to spend them to activate their mythic abilities from destinies. This would mean that they would not start out with 3 every game, they would need to be heroic, clever, or do a really good job roleplaying to earn them, and be a little more careful whether they want to spend those points on their incredible abilities, or keep themselves alive. I saw the suggestion for using the destinies like archetypes but avoiding the mythic points feats all together, but that just doesn't feel good to me. It might only be dipping a toe into mythic, but I think it will fit our group best.
I think another missed opportunity here was not including actions and abilities on a Kaiju's statblock that just give the effects of a hazard associated with that Kaiju. Give Agyra some unique hazards that could be listed separately and used as is before reaching a point where your players could actually fight her. Whether they should cost Mythic points...I can't be sure. But I think it would've been a cool addition.
The section on her does one stats for 3 hazards, plus there's the hurricane in her statblock
Beyond your question, but a number of kaiju "statblocks" in the past provide hazards that aren't really kaiju-specific as well
Incorporating hazard attacks is my favorite way to beef up a solo boss while not making the math terrible, ran a mold dragon a while back that shot balls of spores that would slowly grow and do damage around them
I actually really like the way mythic immunity works, mostly because it stops the party from receiving outside help. It doesn't do much to stop the party themselves, which is good to because powerful creatures like Agyra don't really need more help surviving against the party, but it stops their non-mythic allies.
My immediate thought when looking at the Prophecised Monarch was that they could very effectively lead a small army/militia, reducing the damage they take to keep them alive and massively buffing the damage they deal. The option to give Mythic Immunity lets you choose whether that's actually an option against a monster, or it's a showdown of mythic heroes by themselves against the monster (though it would probably be best to let your players recall knowledge to tell in advance, rather than leading their allies to their pointless deaths)
From what I've seen of Mythic it seems like a mixed bag, which is a real shame, because actually playtesting it would have undoubtedly avoided a ton of these complaints. If memory serves they were floating around the idea too, so I can't fathom why that never materialized. Ah well.
Let me Get this straight: Kaiju don't exactly have statblocks, but they are made to have the campaign made around them like they're some sort of "Force of Nature" to be reckon with you.
That's Basically Sin from Final Fantasy X.
Or an elder dragon from Monster Hunter.
"What if you get a mythic destiny at Level 2?" Genius. A level 2 prophesied monarch would be an amazing king arthur campaign. I actually think the variant rules vaguely mention this for a sentence, something about a "gritty mythic campaign" suggesting to give higher mythic tier to lower level characters.
Yay Spirit Island mentioned! I'd love to see a vid on that
Regarding the, "I don't know how you kill this thing," in past editions of D&D, the Tarasque had similar resistance, and an old dungeon master I had said you needed to use two wish spells, one to turn off the healing, the second to kill it while the healing was off. I don't know if that was ever the official published way to kill it, but it inspired me when I see these types of creatures that what I'm meant to do as a GM is come up with an Achilles Heel type weakness that I make finding part of the campaign. Admittedly, though, it would be nice if that was written somewhere if that was the intention.
I mean if you have a wish spell anyway, you might as well just wish the Tarasque dead lmao
Gogiteth is one of my favorite 2e monsters and also funny one because its lore implies they hunt in packs meaning they would be mook enemies, but because its much stronger as boss enemy, so far you only see them solo in aps :D I wonder if mythic gogiteth has different lore
Mythic gogiteth is exactly the same but with Mythic Ambusher adjustment, which gives it Resilience in both of its worse saves. No new actions.
It is not the Grear Gogiteth mentiones in gogiteth lore, sadly.
I think a big problem with the kaiju sized creatures is their "size". It would be super cool to see a kaiju with actual dimensions instead of just x by x squares, for example having it's feet be the size of large creatures so players can weave between them.
can you make a myhtic statblock for megan? i imagine her as a lvl 16 celestial beast that can surely offer insight to my party
Spirit island is just so good. We went for a board game weekend with a friend to lower his untested games pile, but we ended up doing mostly Spirit Island over and over again
Interesting thing about the monster template is it would also work well if you wanted to introduce the concept of player characters being mythic earlier.
I feel like templates are there just as quick conversion method just like how vampire template is one that recomends that if you have time, you should always build monster from scratch instead of using template
Rules Lawyer ASMR arc
I feel like Mythic Resilience might've been better if you had to spend a mythic point to activate it on a save. This would make it much more costly (since mythic monsters don't have a way to get the mythic points back during combat), but an effect that powerful I think deserves it. You could argue that this would function similarly to legendary resistance in 5e, but with more shades of grey since there are four potential degrees of success or failure instead of two, and the spells in twofinder are less "save or suck" in general. It would also contest with them using mythic points for their other mythic powers like the undying power, so it wouldn't be purely about burning an enemy out of their "legendary resistances" before firing the big spells at them. Or, maybe this could've been made into its own mythic power, and mythic resilience could've just been a flat +4 to the save or something.
Also I feel like Mythic Resistance should apply to all attacks made with non-mythic weapons (like how Mythic Immunity works). I mean, that might be how it works right now? I don't know if mythic characters count as mythic creatures, since "creature" is terminology usually left only to monsters iirc? But I could be wrong. It would make more sense that monsters with Mythic Resistance are way harder to damage physically unless you are a dedicated mythic martial wielding a mythical weapon. That way M. Resistance works against all but the best martials and M. Resilience works against all but the best casters. But idk.
I'm not sure but I think you're supposed to write in a weakness for regeneration as a GM. With Xotani, there is a ritual that deactivates its regeneration, while Tarrasque says "has yet to be discovered." So part of mythic adventures could be discovering such things.
Due to Mythic resilience in Fortitude saves, not even suffocation can kill Agyra...
I only know what I've seen in preview videos so far, but one way I would expect the on/off resistance to factor in is that its a narrative device made mechanical. As you say, a mythic monster can destroy an army, and the way mythic resistance works makes the players the only heroes that can deal with the monster, even when they have an army with them. It enables putting the characters in the middle of a big epic scene and making it clear what they need to do.
Also, KITTY!
So far the only issue i have is the creature size.
Kaiju should at least be 10by10
Mythic resilience seems the pathfinder version of Dnd's legendary resistance. Both atrocious, and something pathfinder should've avoided.
Legendary Resistance is somehow better designed.
What I don't really like is how they break their own conventions with mythic ambusher and it's representative. The rules talk about how the resilience increases should go from highest save to lowest but then mythic gogigeth goes reflex>will, even if you'd excuse the reflex because of the template the next save should be fortitude, which already was its strongest save which would leave it with clear weakness to target but no, the writer decided it's best to round it out. And that comes to point number 2 how uneven the mythic power ups impact martials and casters. With such all-rounded defense spread even casting at mythic proficiency you are no more effective as you're forced to target the highest save which in big part nullifies the mythic prof number difference and other 2 effectively give incapacitation to all spells that didn't have it and super-incapacitation to those that did, which I feel is just bad design. All the while unless you are skill-action martial there is nothing really impeding you THAT much.
So what I want to sum up with is a plea for other gm's to leave weaknesses in, don't create a super-all rounders which can end up frustrating your players with gotcha's. Esp if they recall knowledge at least let them know that the weakest save (which a caster likely asks for) has the stupid resilience while the strongest does not, if you'd be to follow the paizo principle.
It creates this weird situation where you are punished for attacking their weak save.
I love Paizo, but I don't feel comfortable when they are so open about selling something they haven't tested. I feel like a bit of a fool.
I agree, I know it's waaay different from a video game but imagine just randomly throwing out patches and balance updates in a video game without testing anything
Where did they mention that they didn't test any of this?
Treat him like a dirty podcast, he likes it.
Am I a part of Group A or Group B if i wanted Mythic to be Levels 21 to 30?
Agyra can be killed by suffocation in ocean or such if I'm reading right. EIther way I wouldn't remove her super regeneration, kaiju should be about as hard to kill as tarrasque if not harder xD
I'm mostly confused why kaiju lack ability that increases their size larger than gargantuan sized creature because it doesn't make them feel big enough if they are "just" gargantuan x'D
Last I recall, there was ONE feat somewhere that exists (possibly from an archetype or specific to a certain class) that allows you to somehow disable a creature's regeneration even if it's not normally possible with what they're doing. I could be wrong, but I remember it being mentioned somewhere. Honestly, having Mythic options that could disable regeneration effects that normally don't have a way to disable it probably should've been something they made. Then again, people are incentivized to make their own stuff, so...who knows?
They should have introduced a 'colossal' size in this book! Make it 72 by 72 feet standardised, or 12 by 12 squares.
18:52 I heard myself be mentioned and had to actually look at the screen
I feel the Regeneration is there without a feature to turn it off to make it an unkillable creature most likely. I.E. you can take it down for the moment but now it will be in hibernation for a while, the problem will arise again.
Spirit Island! 🎉
I think the funniest (dumbest) part of how they chose to design mythic monsters can be represented by looking at Vulot and Treerazer. Both are "nascent demon lords", though as Mythic 21 I assume Vulot is intended to be more powerful than Treerazer narratively, maybe one level above him.
Yet... They are statistically 4 levels apart. Vulot needs to roll a *17* to hit Treerazer, can't really protect himself from most of the latter's attacks, and generally will just roll over and die even with the full support of mythic protections. I think this is the best representation of how mythic fails to deliver a satisfying feeling of power.
Vulot's biggest cheat is more narrative than anything with how he skips the usual long recovery in his realm as he just picks up another stolen identity. In a way he can take more risks spreading his influence over Treerazer who has to get personal and is on his one-life sentence so it would make some sense that the sneaky cheat is "above" someone more combat capable.
I'm not sure what you're asking for exactly, IF you still want level to mean something.
In my pinned comment I quote the Variant Mythic rules doc, which says PCs at this level are effectively 3 levels higher than their actual level. Applying this to Mythic 21 Vulot, it is Level 24. They have decided to NOT make it more powerful than Treerazer.
Mythic seems not like what I was looking for. I am looking for a system that allows over level 20 play but with the same balance. The Battles should be long and epic, like it should be when going against a demon Lord, kaiju or demigod. I am looking for a system that allows me to let my players fight the Osoyo, the Blackfrost Whale ( CR 27) or the Latern King (CR 29) and not a system that brings their CR rating down to 25. It seems that the wait continues. Or in the worst case, I have to build a system such as this myself after all.
It was said for a while that mythic would not be level 20+ but that doesn't mean it can't happen in the future
@@Mada003akamagikarp How much lifespan do you really think pf2e has? We've had 5 years of pf2e, most rpgs realistically have a lifespan of 5-8 years. Remaster is out, now their "official" mythic rules are out, I really don't think there's enough juice left for another gameplay expansion beyond 20.
@@Mada003akamagikarp Yes, I knew that. But I thought that maybe the mythic system somehow allows battling those foes. But Sadly, it doesn't.
Why not just have the mythic rules and enable leveling until level 25 ?
@@mushuable because I hoped I don't have to build stats and abilities for them myself. No other reason.
gogiteth beloved
Nice!
Can they plz playtest subsystems? Kingdom Building _needed_ playtesting. They are not playable RAW.
The Mixed play is the most dumbfounding incomprehensible and downright irrisory option that has been ever suggested in a PF2e book... Alright guys, we playin Mythic, but here is the interesting thing, only my GF is mythic, he has a great responsibility with her massive power over destiny... but dont worry guys, u get free archetype... yeeei xD /jk
It's alternate on purpose. I can defo see a game where this could work (Say, Kingmaker where one player is a prophecised monarch and the other are knights) so it's reasonable that Paizo explained how it COULD be done... Buh I do agree that it could be easily misused!
Also, thank you to everyone who shares my disappointment in the sizing of these larger than life creatures. A Kaiju should not be able to fit into a medieval tavern comfortably (so long as we disregard the roof)
We need a Mythic AP now. Though I don’t mind a conversion of wrath would love an Asian/Japan style setting with kaiju.
If you're into this, you could check Ryoko's Guide to the Yokai Realms. It's 5e but it's still pretty good material to go by.
@@mushuable nice tip, thanks.
No stat block for the Whispering Tyrant? :(
47:45 I would much prefer to give my non Mythic PCs a second class via Dual Class variant, as to me Free Archetype doesn't come close to making it seem like the mythic and non mythic PCs are on the same tier of play
You can't kill Godzilla or Rodan, only make them go to sleep for a while. I believe this is them putting that on Agyra. You can't kill them, only drive them off.
But it has a special ability that only works if it dies. So I think this is an oversight.
I was 30 minutes late to this release 😰
I like mythic resistance as a gimmick buff If the second-level party will become mythic in the middle of fighting the boss.
Other than that it is a rules explanation for why even capable fighters need to turn towards the players to fight back against mythic monsters, but I don't like it. There is no reason to make plot part of the rules.
I think the problem with kaiju, is that "can't be fought with" isn't a suggestion. It's one of the fundamental rules that govern the genre of kaiju. A kaiju with a statblock is just a big monster.
Massive Damage could kill Agrya.
I don't think a confused, controlled, or fleeing creature could take the action to remove the condition due to said conditions defining what actions they can take
Specific over general. The mythic rules would be more specific.
@user-zk3dx9dd6p I think the RAW says you can't remove those conditions, but I agree with you. I'd say it's more about preserving the apparent intent
@@TheRulesLawyerRPG I think those three conditions specifically should be pretty straightforward. When you're confused you have the actions, you just don't get to choose how to spend them - unless of course you have some extraordinary ability that lets you change the rules! (it's another question entirely if you could remove slowed 3 before it prevented you from regaining actions). And it's a meta choice anyway, your character doesn't know the mechanics of their suffering.
Why wouldn't you playtest everything?
Real Hasbro behaviour tight there
As far as I've heard, they DID playtest it, but they did it privately.
Either way, I do feel bit baffled by people saying mythic rules aren't strong enough, especially when people compare to 1e mythic because everyone else I know really hated 1e mythic because it was so stupidly op it stopped being fun to be op.
I'm one of those people and tbh for me it's just because there's not enough passive effects before Lvl 12. If you're playing a low level mythic campaign or are at the start of a mythic campaign and you're not spending a mythic point because your calling or feats don't apply to the situation or you've run out of mythic points, then you're just the same as any other character except you're harder to kill.
I'm not saying I want Champion's old "Double the Damage" Perfect Strike but like... just _something_ to differentiate a mythic character from a non-mythic character before lvl 12.
The mythic destinies are comically uneven, with Celestial being extremelt strong while Apocalypse Rider is actually worse than Cavalier or Beastmaster
@@TenkDD Apocalypse Rider has a cool feature of wielding two handed weapons with only one hand though, at least
TBH this is the same ol' Paizo mantra. A bunch of rules sets that are pretty half baked, and we have to figure out how to make them work, if possible.
After watching your series I don't feel like this book should even have been atempted. If you want a more powerful character then the GM Core has already great options using free additional archetypes or zeitgeist (dual class) characters.
Mythic Resistance/Immunity to strikes should be a flat check vs mythic characters/mythic weapons.
Mythic Immunity/Resilience should be rolled together as a flat check vs mythic characters for only the saves they would have mythic resilience to.
I would rather have seen the books pages dedicated to extending character progression past level 20.
war of immortals seems like the worst 2e book paizo has made in a long time all class archetypes were a real disaspointed and mythic rules are a sad whimper sompared to 1e mythic rules
despite what feels like two delays caused by sudden remastering it still has the rushed feeling. Even the art feels worse than usual...
It's okay to be wrong.
I agree. Reminds me of the space book from 5e. Although the new classes look awesome and some errata are needed for some archtypes. The mythic rules pale in comparison to what most people wanted. Paizo is definitely out of touch there. I'm now using Mystic Powers on Pathfinder Infinite, and it's almost exactly what i wanted. Created my first Lord of Hell using the book and I'm loving it.
I wish there were powered down versions of the mythic destinies. They are so cool and flavorful but too strong to be used in a normal campaign imo. But I'd love to...
Woof, were you reading off a script and it kept flipping itself over on your screen? Your speech really sounded much more janky here than we are used to in a lot of places.
Yeah, I ran WotR in 1E and it was basically a traumatic experience. Also left a quite negative review thread on the subforum back then, almost ten years ago. The new mythic rules seem better, but I don't think I'll be using them, since I'm just starting to GM my first campaign in about three weeks (Abomination Vaults). Better to get a few campaigns under my belt first before mixing in such potent, not really yet tested, stuff.
Wow, really? I"m making 4.5 hours of scripted, edited content in 8 days that you can watch for free. Maybe your perception's due to that.
@@TheRulesLawyerRPG Yeah, probably just a bad script moment, no problem. Anyway, keep on rocking! :)
@@TheRulesLawyerRPG Make sure to rest and take care of yourself!