The 9th year tests did not affect us at all when we took them. They were actually voluntary (or that you could refuse to take them). The next step was determined by our grades from our normal subjects (like biology, history etc). I don't think it has changed so you might be a bit wrong on this subject.
+jonnenne Only "high stakes" tests are the ones that are at the end of the upper secondary school (matriculation tests/ylioppilaskirjoitukset) and possible entrance exams. However, these are after the mandatory schooling.
1) That has confused me as well. I've always had home work. 2) According to wikipedia there were 75 private shools in 2007. I have never met anyone who went to private school nor have I ever even seen one. 3) The 9th grade test was atleast at my school more like "let's see how you might compare to others, but lets throw the results in the bin afterwards". The after high school test is quite important. That doesn't mean everything (and you can retake it). 4) My mother was a teacher and I can testify that they don't get paid royally and their work is VERY hard compared to the pay If they wish to be good. 5) What are you saying about my mother?
I go to private school in Finland so now you know that you've kinda "met" one. And I've been there since first class, so I haven't ever been in a public schools or what do you call them..?
+Saviour Sam Agius if you are talking to me then yes, I know a lot of people who goes to public schools because there is a lot more of them than private schools.
Unfortunately you failed miserably when trying to be funny. We finns are more than fed up hearing english speaking people making the finish/finnish puns. When a million other people have used the same joke, it is more irritating than funny. So, I'm happy he is not using that phrase.
You pointed some myths that needed to be corrected. The "no homework" and "no testing" are just headers originally made by american journalists, while the reality is "much less homework than in other OECD PISA top countries" and "no regular, standardized testing". Thanks for adding the written corrections of your hasty claims, I hope more than just a few watchers actually noticed and read them. The nationwide tests at the end of 9th grade have very little (if any) effect in the grades in the graduation diploma, or future school choices. Even the matriculation exam at the end of upper secondary school (senior high school) does not determine what the kids can do in the future and what not. In the finnish system, there are several paths to future studies. You can go to a less popular upper secondary school if you have below average grades, and still get the high quality education and skills to enter any top university program. Heck, you can even enter university studies WITHOUT having gone to upper secondary school and without the matriculation exam. So, going to a vocational college to become a carpenter or car mechanic does not mean you can't apply to a polytechnic, university master program or even doctor program later in your life if you so wish. The path is longer, but it is still there. And still without tuition fees.
Glad to help you out on myth number 1. It's part of a Michael Moore film in which he interviewed teens from one school who said they had little to no homework. No one else supports the broad claim, as far as I can tell. On the contrary, school systems in which I worked in the Far East gave little homework: Japan, Korea, Taiwan. One reason for that is that most students attend what are called "cram" schools after school, often at their own insistence, not necessarily that of their parents. A couple of days a week it's math, a day or two science, a day or two English, a day or two music... I know what you're thinking, they have weeks longer than 7 days. Really, it's some overlapping, where they attend two different classes a day. (I taught 5 years in Japan, 3 in Korea, and 9 in Taiwan. People I know from the latter two countries say the situation is the same or similar today.) When I lived in Hawaii, incidentally, children of Chinese, Japanese, and Korean heritage went to school on Saturday to study their family's language, mainly the literary language and the use of traditional writing (Chinese characters, the kana systems, and Hangul, respectively). Maybe the high ranking that students from these cultures have in math and in science has something to do with their discipline in studying language, as well. Another high achieving group in the US are students who study Hebrew. There may be a correlation between valuing language study (and study of one's traditional family culture) with high performance in other disciplines. Just a thought,
I'm in high school in Finland right now. We got lots of mandatory homework in elementary and middle school, probably to teach us how to study at home and responsibilities and stuff... but right now, atleast in my high school, pretty much any homework we are given is optional (depending on the teacher and the course, it might be mandatory but we also might not get any at all). Usually in subjects like maths the students know themselves that they won't get far if they don't do any work outside of school and can decide for themselves how much they need to do, and so our teacher never really asks us if we've done our homework. Essays are another thing though...
There is quite many private schools for example in Helsinki. But it is "different kind of private" than for example in UK. Private schools get funding from goverment even though they are private. Normally these schools have some extra subjects that they teach more: music, art sport.
for the first myth yes we do get homework or atleast when i went to school i got homework every single day but that was back in the 90's so i dont know if it has changed much
As a Finn, we always had homework. (but I managed mostly without doing those in elementary and hs). But then it turned out really hard to get in to senior hs after that, you are right about that. They rank students by their success in elementary and junior hs. But I still appreciate very much the fairness of it, every child can either work hard or not, and it's not about money.
Myth 5. Hmm. In most US states, you need a bachelor's degree plus a teaching certificate of some kind. At the secondary schools, you usually need a subject-specific certificate, which, while not an MA, is still an extra qualification. On the contrary, American schools sometimes reject a higher qualification in favor of a lower, as was the case when I studied German at a community college. My professor had a doctorate in teaching German but was not allowed to teach at a US university because of restrictions imposed by (non-unionized) faculty at the time. She taught us to read Fraktur, for example, and she helped me get private tutoring from a German national living in my city (San Jose, primarily Hispanic, not German). But to tackle the point you seem to be eliding, it's a sad fact that GRE scores for admission to graduate programs in education are lower on average than for programs in the sciences or in a field like history or even English literature. While not gainsaying top educational institutions like Columbia Teachers' College, I am not as impressed by what people in education write as I am in fields like history. For example, a rather thoughtful book came out last year about the overuse of detention and suspension in American schools. Alas, it opened with one of these ubiquitous "phony quotes" that people just love to decorate their books with. All the authors had to do was do a check of the supposed famous saying to find that it was wrong--and in so doing they might have found something much better, and accurate, to boot.
The thing with private schools is that they can't be making profit. So yes, we do have private schools but they're not companies trying to make money. I think that's what makes the difference.
The thing about the masters degree is that you need to actually have a masters degree in *teaching*, and of course masters in the class you are going to teach.
Exceptions do not make the rule. Your kids are the exception. The trade unions have protected their profession and that is an excellent thing. They really are given flexibility to teach and kids (in my experience) are encouraged to help each other and that kids are much less likely to get left behind.
I would say that the private schools do exist, that is correct.. But school can be private only if it has a special purpose like providing education in foreign language wich wouldn't be possible otherwise. etc. And they can collect tuition but they can not be "for-profit".
(I am finnish) In high school you CAN do your homework during the lesson. But in the primary school you cant do your homework in the school. That is not fair, I guess...
Good video, even though there were a few mistakes here and there(which have already been corrected by others) but i really I gotta ask, do you teach at the English School? The talk of a private school with a ~600 euro fee rang a bell. I graduated high school there like 6 years ago... Man i feel old.
I always feel sorry for people who comes to live here in Finland.. This is such a shitty little country with nothing special going on and in fact seem to go bankrupt any time now... cant understand why anyone want to move here? What could be the motivation? I'm sure there are lots of worse places but still.
Finland isn't perfect but it isn't so terrible either! I moved here because visiting schools in Finland reignited my passion for teaching. Despite some frustrations I'm still very happy with my decision to move here because of the satisfaction I've found working as a teacher here. Hope this helps!
This is the problem I have with a semi-ignorant but overly self confident US'er busting myths: You are actually creating and/or solidifying them. Thankfully we have helpful, patient Finnish people putting in the effort to sort out inaccuracies in English, which is a third language they learned at school. Some humility might look good on you, Tyler Walton.
I am in the and of night grate and I can tell that there is no important tests but just regular tests like always. But closer you get to finnish the numbers are just weight more complicated to earlier tests
I live in Japan and here they idealize a lot Finnish education. There are some other different things that I´m not sure they are myths and that weren´t explored in the video. For example, they say in Finland the classroom has a smaller number of students (Japan has an average of 35 to maximum 39 at Elementary school level) and that the format is different. In Japan they make the traditional square shaped classroom with several rows and everybody studies the same thing. They say in Finland there is no square shape and no rows and that the Ss can stand up whenever they want and walk freely, come to the teacher´s desk to ask things personally, etc (when in Japan they should remain seated if not given permission). They also say Finnish education stimulates more creativity and that each student may be studying different topics, at different levels or totally different subjects in the same classroom. Are all those myths as well?
I think it depends on the teacher since teacher's have a lot of autonomy here to structure their class how they see fit. There's certainly no mandate that teachers should be stricter or more authoritarian.
The reason Americans are talking about Finland not having homework is more fixated on the younger grades. Right now in the us kindergarteners in some districts are coming home with 3 hours of homework a night. I think our country is currently freaking out about the overload on the younger grades. The younger grades are suffering in an effort to bring national averages up and actually the higher amounts of homework are back firing. Good video though, thanks for the clarification.
yo im german and honestly i dont get why you`d even start a private school like that. over here private schools are just schools that pretty much dont recieve any funding from the state but also cost an arm and a leg to send your kids to. but your kind of private school doesnt really seem to get anything out of theyr private status and the even have to abide a given curiculum so why even do it that way?
The private school thing is almost as there are no private schools. There aren't any private school that doesn't have majority of the funding from the government as you said, and there are very few private schools to begin with. Tuition fee is vastly lower than in most parts of the world where there are private schools. Private schools here are much closer to public schools in every aspect. Therefore it would be quite misleading to tell just that "Finland has private schools":
Idk what is that school you're teaching in, but it doesn't sound anything like the school I went. We had a few national tests at 9th year, but nobody studied for them harder than usually, which certainly was not much. School was completely free, only thing costing was skiing trip once a year. Homework? Mm, sometimes yeah. Most teachers just didn't check them, so why an earth would I have done them?
My credentials: I am 25 years old, I was born in Finland, I have lived here my entire life and my family is Finnish. I don't know about 2nd or 3rd but the first myth is indeed just a myth. I have never heard that 4th myth. They probably don't get as much but they are really well trained and their job and salary are much more secured - and they are more respected (this is what I have heard, don't know if it is true). I don't know about myth n:o 5 and I have never heard of it... It's pretty much like he said: Difficult to get in, a lot of work before you get to be a teacher and they are well trained. Actually, my cousin tried to get in with almost perfect scores and they didn't take her. So it's not just that you have to have good grades... But there are some really good things going on in our education system that need to be studied if you care about education. And we all have something to improve.
Also students choose at age 15 whether they wish to proceed to university or polytechnic when they're 18. Some elect to do a double-diploma (kaksoistutkinto) but those are largely worthless. After this the students then are split into two classes - Amis and Lukio, or Vocational and Precollege. Some people in this comment section seems confused on this point (or just biased?), but there ARE some really important tests that you take when you're younger - the lukio you want to get into, if it's a "higher regarded one" at least, demands a high GPA, and a high GPA is very much in correlation with outcomes on your end-of-year-finals as well as the exams you take at the end of every subject. There is of course contention on what if getting to the "best" lukio does you any good or not, but it is factually relevant that some schools are harder to get to, objectively, than others. So, you completely overlooked Amis and Amkki, which account for the "other half" of the population - not everyone who has a higher degree goes to "high school" and "college", and the non- or semi-academic counterparts (amis especially) is simply not even close. Vocational schools as the name suggests are meant for people who want to get into work life faster and couldn't care less about advanced calculus or anything past basic algebra. An example of such a vocation would be pastry chefs. You will not get a job in this country without paperwork showing you can do it. Not even floor-sweeping can be done without a receipt of Finnish fluency and a high school diploma. This is especially hard on immigrants who literally can't get jobs sweeping floors if they wanted them, and who're the effectively "forced" to take social benefits. If you could get 700euros per month not working at all, or 700 euros working 8 hours a day, what would you choose?
You're right! I failed to give a holistic view of education in Finland, but I wanted to focus more closely on how the myths themselves were inaccurate. I have so much to learn still! Thanks for the insight!
...Wait a minute, stereotypical soccer mom "dads" in their 30s still exist? I had no idea, I thought that ended in the early 2000s because we all focus on letting our kids be real listened-to people now.
1. They do homework....that's a mythical myth. 2. They do exist....never heard that,Tyler. #privates 3.Standardized testing is crazier in US ....u did not debunk that ----You are not funny. U have bad body language for a comic and serious talk. 4. Where did u hear that? What I hear is teachers are professionals. 5. Its cos Tyler is not a smart teacher!!! Hahahaha. Finnish teachers are prestigious. I did not finish the video.....Pun intended
Would you mind to be a bit more precise... Give me the percentage of the Finnish schools that are private schools compared to dito i the US ? -Private compulsory schools in Finland can probably be counted on your fingers and toes , young man (if you don´t count the faith-based or international schools) ! Less than 2 precent of the kids go to private schools there.
+Shadow of Horse +Tuutulaulu You're probably talking about AMK - ammattikorkeakoulu which is somewhat parallel to University. "Amis" or ammattikoulu or "vocational school" do NOT necessitate master's degrees. www.kuntatyonantajat.fi/fi/sopimukset/opettajat/ammatillinen-koulutus/Sivut/ammatillisten-opettajien-kelpoisuudet.aspx
Seems that Finnish people are happy with their educational system, unlike other countries where the educational system is often pointed out as responsible for social regression,,,,
Well people do like to throw that saying around (especially Finns), and we do have a good education system, but saying it's the best is kinda overstatement. Finland has scored highly in the PISA tests, but that's about it. There are many other international tests that Finland hasn't done as well.
Teachers in Finland get paid less than their American counterparts, except: -They have far less student loan debt than American teachers. Most of them graduate as teachers without any debt. -They don't have to pay for health insurance, since there is functional public healthcare. -The schools are better funded, so they are better equipped to do their jobs and teach the kids, which leads to a far more pleasant work environment.
***** I know how the Finnish tax system works, since that's where I live. The schools I went to, and especially the teachers there were good and dedicated, and I think that's more valuable than the difference in taxes I have to pay.
@@Cyberspine Tell that to my nation (Argentina). Not only is debt already a thing the second you are born, your nation sucks at keeping itself together and your pay is carp like every other profession. Its no mystery why most schools have had some teacher literally lose their shit
Finnish students sure get homework but you never have to do it. At least I didn't when I was in school :D Also matriculation exams don't count for much, for universities you get in if you do well in entrance exams. I think the reason why Finnish education system is good like it is, is because it is developed by experts of the field not politicians. Similar to Finland's prison system.
I work as a teacher in Ecuador and I've studied in Iceland and Spain. Just the idea of making a funny video is a huge innovation...in all the countries I studied teachers take themselves too seriously. I always say to my students don't take yourself too serious allow yourself to be ridiculous...allow yourself to try and to fail....if teachers in Finland can laugh at themselves they have the best education
Thanks! I feel quite the same. I think there's quite a diverse group of teachers here in Finland, some on the more serious side and some on the more, well, 'Tyler end' of the spectrum. :P
Here in argentina my class drove our health teacher to maddness after having to deal with us for 2 years....still dont know what happend to the baldy, he was spitting image of the exact oppiste of a Finish teacher. In other words a drill Sargent
"But for now, let's dance" - I think we have our catchphrase right there! Also, thank you for debunking these myths! I'm so tired of explaining this stuff to people. We have a (mostly) good education system here but it's not how they potray it abroad. Oh how I wish teachers got paid as well as doctors...
+Lotta Aurora Was about to write the same thing about the catchphrase, but the only problem is: He doesn't always dance in the End of a video :/. He could start doing so, though ;).
+Lotta Aurora www.terve.fi/laakarikirja/miksi-laakari-tekee-itsemurhan Call it a "hazard benefit", doctors are one of the few professions that don't get to not do overtime. Sure, teachers can have it tough, but at least they get to go home every night, and can go on strike if they don't. Doctors? Yeah. Overtime comes with the territory, and so does the suicide rate.
Yes, we had PISA-tests, but we didn't have them in 9th grade, it was like 8th grade I think, and not everyone did them, only a few randomly selected participated. I never did them, a friend of mine did though. In the video he's talking abut some other test that actually influence your grades and influence which high school you can go to, I've never heard of them, have you? :) Anteeks että kirjoitan englanniksi, oon suomenroutsalainen ja olen asunut Ahvenanmaalla ja Ruotsissa noin 7 ja 6 vuotta nyt, valitettavasti olen unohtanut aika paljon suomea :(
I think he propably meant "valtakunnalliset kokeet". Those everyone has (during 9th grade) I think, but they don't determine which school you can continue to or anything like that. At least my experience is that they affect your grade same as any other test. The only difference is that they compare you to the whole finland and not just your school.
I guess it may have something to do with the new curriculum. And I have heard of teachers who don't specifically give homework, but they give the students all the tasks in the beginning of the course and there's so much to do that at least most people have to do something at home. But this gives more responsibility to the students - they can choose when they are going to do the tasks.
I think the myth that Finnish teachers get paid like doctors etc is because the profession is a highly respected one on par (or even higher than) doctors according to studies that come out ever so often.
well youcant find the respection now a days. Like last corona year, teacher worked really hard and now goverment says that yah schools need tobe open so student can catch up whit the lock down studies.When achually the teachwr made sure the kids did learn those thing atthe time. Past 5 years teacher has only get "bigger salary" in the media when actually those "pay rises" has been a bluff because they just made the salory evwn smaller. Also teacher don't get a corona-suplement with their salary
hooray! About the 9th grade exam. It is national, but it depends on the schools if they want to test the pupils. My school took English and maths, some took none. Have a nice one!
+Matti Heikkilä I think my school did only the math test but it's kinda pointless because it doesn't matter, it doesn't affect your grades or if it does, it's only a small part of your grade
+Sorbet The actual idea is for the system to check how did they do. So in a way gather some grades from around Finland to be sure the students are alright. So it is not for students per se.
Yeah the only reason those test are done is statistics gathering. As far as I understand they even anonymize out the schools from the results. All they want is a set of exams data across Finland to make statistical check, that the overall year class is performing at normal level. It has no effect on the school or the student, unless the school itself decides to count it as normal 9th year test just like any other or wants to internally use it to compare between years. Any extra weight given to it is purely a matter of schools own choice.
Loved your video! But in my school there was no exam in 9th grade that let me know where i could go to study, i mean i did go to this one private schools exam to find out if i could go there but i'm not sure if you meant that... anyway keep up the good work!
+Tyler Walton Well we do have these national tests, atleast in math (dont remember any others) but they don't determine where we will continue from that point on. The Average grade from our full middleschool diploma or some subjects plus entry tests in some schools determine the next place to study in. Btw great videos! keep it up :)
+Alyssa Shipley Assuming he's only experienced the system of the school he teaches, which I go to, I believe he's referring to that school's final exams in 9th grade. When I arrived as a high school student, they mentioned that the former 9th graders would have a better idea of how the high school system works, with exams at the end of each semester. All other comprehensive schools, including my own, probably don't have any final exams, but rather tests scattered throughout the school year.
I think he maybe meant "valtakunnalliset kokeet", but they don't determine where you can continue to any more than any other exams. It's just a way to compare you to the whole Finland instead of that school.
I'm 50- years old finnish and father of two (15&17 years) and son of the teacher. I have at least 3 relatives who are teachers. So I think that I have something to say about this topic. Myth 1: No homework. As you said, that's not correct. But the amount of the homework is less than what it was 5, 10 or 35 years ago. Myth 2: Private schools. As you said we have those and it's even legal to teach your children at home. Why not? This is not communist country like sweden... Families from sweden moves to finland (to place called Ahvenanmaa) to do homeschooling. It's possible to work at Stockholm and live at finland... It takes some effort but if you want to do homeschooling your swedish children you can do at the finland. There is private finnish schools even at abroad which get money from government. No finns left behind. Myth 3: As you said, after the 9th year your grades are the way to high school. And those are grades from the whole year, not just one test. After high school, your grades help to get place for university etc. If you're people of minority, that means swedish speaking finn, then it's easier for you. Some finnish speaking finns goes to swedish speaking schools because it's easier - if you can speak swedish. So those guys are not smart - they just can speak swedish. Myth 4: Rich teachers. No they are not as you said. But they get 12 months salary for less than 9 months work... Myth 5: Smart/stupid teachers. Won't comment that one.
+catchbay Just a fun fact: According to YLE Swedish speaking Finns are one year behind in PISA results compared to Finnish speaking Finns. They sure need those quotas ...
case 2) Private, but non-profit. Making business out of publicly available and applicable education is illegal in Finland (private training courses etc. are a different matter). The school mentioned in video must be one of the few international school. They are essentially not part of Finnish system at all and are allowed to ask tuition. They are only licensed under Finnish system with a big asterisk next to them, because it is illegal to have unlicensed school in Finland. So government gives them license under Finnish government and then says do whatever you want, as long as you don't start providing general education to Finnish kids. We don't care what you do with the foreign diplomat's kids (for whom these are mostly meant for). These schools are meant for foreigners in Finland, but some internationally minded Finns do attend and as he mentioned even though they don't have to many follow the Finnish National Curriculum. not because they have to, but because it is a good basic curriculum. No school teaching on official languages of Finland is allowed to ask tuition. They are all government funded and thus must be non-profit, licensed by government and follow Finnish national curriculum. Only thing they pretty much are allowed to decide is their teaching methods and if they want include extra stuff on top the National Curriculum. Likewise home schoolers must follow the national curriculum and at extreme the municipality can force the home schooled kids to normal school, if municipality thinks the parents are doing really bad job at the education or don't follow national curriculum (you can teach extra, but you can't ignore and leave out stuff mentioned on National curriculum.). This is because the kids right to decent education is considered more important than the parents right to home school.
Not sure where you've found that information as I couldn't google it. According to the info I found Swedish and Finnish speakers are now equal in mathematics and problem solving (2012) while Finnish speakers are ahead in science and literacy. Science and literacy happens to be the 2 subjects that Finland score top of the world in as well. Regarding the scores they've been dropping for both Finnish and Swedish speakers over the years but they're declining faster for the Finnish speakers. Therefore it's not really a case of Swedish speakers catching up but Finnish speakers getting worse at a faster rate. ktl.jyu.fi/en/recent-news/t301014
Before you yell the R-word, please calm down and think why "finns" are now more stupid than before when usually people get smarter after the generations. There are a lot of new children whose parents don't have the same gene pool as the locals. This is small country so few thousand can make a different. If you look what has happened to this country for last 20 years you can see that there are now a lot of new children whose origins are not from here and which are first time part of the PISA. The JYU study show that now the people from Åland (isolated area, population which is 100% Swedish speaking finns, won't accept people from mainland) have made a good job against the mainland. That doesn't mean that people living at there are now suddenly smarter than before. Åland is the only place in Finland which has the right to not to get any "refugees". There is no one from other "culture". (Sounds like Darwin and Galápagos Islands..). The local charts are made for 1) Swedish speaking finns and 2) for the rest. The "new finns" are mostly at the finn-speaking schools... If you look old IQ statistics you can see that Swedish (the real one who are living at Sweden) are superior to finns. The modern PISA shows something else. Why? Maybe something to do that there are a lot of "new Sweds"... But you can't say that. You can't do two charts at the Sweden. One for the children whose parent's have been there for generations and one for those who have been there maybe max 2 generations and have no need to challenge their brains - everything is there for no effort. Why there is so big IQ difference between real Sweds, finns and Swedish speaking finns - you can check it out by yourself or denied the truth. Hint: small isolated population degenerates. Look the map, study the history.
You really didn't denied what I said? That's odd :-) You gave more information for the subject which is good. At the abroad there are "Finnish" schools, some of those get money from our government and some not. Which schools get the money and which not? That's good Q but I won't go deeper for that at here. Those who do not get are funded by the parents or the local community. At the "homeland :-)" we DO have private schools. Schools which have the power to pick or reject the children. And they are not looking the children, they are looking the parents... Of course they can't ask money from the families DIRECTLY but we all know how it works... The major player say it at their own page: www.steinerkoulu.fi/index.php?page=mitamaksaa (translation: school is free BUT....) I was for public school for every one, but I'm not anymore. Maybe I can do something if/when I get grandchildren.
Yes, it's interesting that I made a video debunking myths that many Finns had no idea even existed. lol I'm not sure I'm reaching the target audience. XD
I'm so happy about your way of making this video, because i've seen too many people just discussing these things without the facts, actual experience or knowledge of the matter. I mean yes, of course everyone can talk about anything and upload it to the interwebs (lol) but they do too often come across as "i came to finland and saw that this thing is different than in my country and i don't understand but i'm just gonna talk about it's absurdy without getting to know more and learn about it." U know? I bet u know. Also taking my enterance exam to Helsinki university tomorrow! Fingers crossed 😁
Ahem... Mr Tyler if i may say. Finland does have Elementary school, High school, College and University. so you wont go from 9th grade to High school since 7-9 is High school and then from there 11-14/15 are College. 10th class is class which will be taken if you need to re do 9th class. Thank you.
well the scool system of Finland have been changed like half year ago and I am One of the "test dolls" and with that I mean that we can Advance that speed we want and do our homeworks if we want, but we have to do more tests than usually (but the tests are smaller) and that "new education system have been tested in history with us and another Time with math have just begun (but most of us have Normaly homeworks) but what I am saying with this statement is that it's possible that in several years nobody in Finland may have no home work but that makes our work more indipendance. (and sorry for a potential bad grammal I am just 14 years old and english is not my stongest subject in scool)
Hi, I'm from Brazil and English is not my first language, but tell about your classroom, the students sit in line? I've heard not, you make groups and sit in circles. That's true?
Also i had no test in 9th grade. You get test if you apply for high schools which are concentrating for one subject. For example, if there is sport high school, you will need to do physical test and so on.
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Private schools are quite marginal in Finland. They probably educate much less than 5% of Finnish children. The private high schools in Helsinki are quite an exception. Most Finnish municipalities have no private schools at all. Larger cities usually have a private Steiner school or a Christian school but most of children in cities too go to public schools. Getting to establish is a private school in Finland is quite rigorous process but after the school is approved it can also get municipal funding.
Hey!! awesome video ...and final dance lol You've just debunked some myths but I still wonder... what's the appreciation from the society to teachers? I mean, in my country it's the lowest paid profession and often looked as an "undesirable" job. the joke goes that if you get into a teaching program in college it's because your scores were so low you couldn't get into anything else. greetings! =) PS: do you have IG?
Hi! I have never heard the claim that teachers in Finland are paid as much as doctors and lawyers. But what I have heard, is that teachers here are respected as much as doctors and lawyers and are paid a decent salary..
When I was in elementary school in finland we got a lot more of of homework compared to lower secondary or high school, which is a bit more independent depending on teacher. There's no "high stakes testing", the national test weighed only 10% in our subject grades in our ninth year, and to me that's not very "high". But because it was a new thing and seemed really official everyone kind of stressed about it, and of course it was like a onetime thing so I guess you can't retake it just like that. ALSO on many, probably most university lines you can get to without going through high school at all and having matriculation examination grades, by just preparing for the entrance exam and doing very well in it and having some other merits. So really, any grades in finland count a LOT less than in most other countries.
Another great video (and totally worth the wait)! As a future teacher, I find it very frustrating to read these kinds of myths floating around the internet, because there are actually some very valid reasons as to why Finnish education is so highly appreciated, and these statements are simply not true, which kinda takes away from the credibility of the system. So a big kiitos to you for debunking the myths! :)
+Anna Kuosmanen Check youtube channel "Katie In Finland". She is teacher from New Mexico and came to finland over year ago. Living at Jyväskylä right now.
At last, someone finally telling the reality of Finnish education. After years of both Finnish and outside media promoting the educational system of Finland by spreading nothing but fallacies, all of which you mentioned, it's relieving to hear someone say some truth. It's obvious that Finland wants to seem significant among other countries by capitalising on it's only high statistic that means anything to people outside the country. Recently short documentary was released by some British media company, where they interviewed the staff and teachers of my old school. I was absolutely filled with rage, as they spouted claims such as, "we give lots of free time", " we give hardly any homework", and "we only want them to be happy", after four years of the complete opposite. Anyway, well done on your videos and continue producing more.
I think the quality of the educational system really boils down to flexibility and purposeful design. Instead of forcing a one-size-fits-all scheme, students are always the driving force behind the actions taken. It doesn't matter what the situation has been so far, there's always an avenue to progress in a direction of your choosing. The reason almost everyone has a masters, as you mentioned, is because the system will work around your life rather than the other way around. Way less expenses and drop outs at every tier, and a better overall quality because people's self esteem and finances aren't beaten into the dirt for stepping out of line. Any surprise that people realize how much money a masters degree will get you and then, y'know, actually get one? The utopian myths are certainly absurd and it's not even remotely perfect, but it is objectively better than the authoritarian shit the US is pulling at K-12 levels, and the absurd prices of tertiary education.
hi there, i loved your video, im a teacher in Argentina, and our education is faaaaaar away from yours. im really interested to know more about your system education in finland, if you have some serious web pages i can read ill be really pleased, Greetings from down here!!!!
Thanks, Marisa! Here's a great article that helps to demystify what teachers are like in Finland. www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2015/02/12/teach-for-finland-why-it-won't-happen/
Tyler Walton Ah - Pasi Sahlberg .... not sure I trust him. What he talks about in Finnish schools is not what happens in most Finnish schools. Might in schools run by the universities' schools of education, but not in those run by municipalities - like the ones my daughter went to.
."finland isn't this paradise you think it is" he says while showing viewers his incridebly beautiful home, set in land greener than the moss in ireland, on top of a lake.
your end catch phrase could be "Moi-moi" (and i don't mean the French "moi"!) altho that might be more suitable in the beginning but it works in the end too... ask your students ;)
I got homeworks from my first school day to this day. Okay, not in everyday, but usually. And our teacher gave us summer homeworks in fuor first years.
Does anyone have any information about the Finnish teacher training program? How long is the program and what type of support is offered for new teachers, such as mentors? With regards to high school, are most of the classes taught with one teacher or more and what is the average class size?
As a student in Finland I totally agree to having homework and tests. I mean, a lot less than in other countries and less of that "learn this specific test and don't learn anything creative" homework.
Thank you! I was born and raised in Finland and got all my education there. Over 10 years ago I moved to the UK and keep hearing about the amazing no-homework and no-testing education system that Finland has which has left me utterly baffled. Have the schools changed so much since my primary school days in 1990s and early 2000s? I asked some of my acquaintances who are teachers and they confirmed that those tales are a load of bollocks. But it's good to see someone busting the myths more publically as well.
The 9th year tests did not affect us at all when we took them. They were actually voluntary (or that you could refuse to take them). The next step was determined by our grades from our normal subjects (like biology, history etc). I don't think it has changed so you might be a bit wrong on this subject.
+jonnenne Only "high stakes" tests are the ones that are at the end of the upper secondary school (matriculation tests/ylioppilaskirjoitukset) and possible entrance exams. However, these are after the mandatory schooling.
for me it was voluntary
for everyone it is voluntary. The 3rd commentor just was too simple to understand it.
***** Heh, it isnt voluntary for ppl who don't realise it is.
It is voluntary.
1) That has confused me as well. I've always had home work.
2) According to wikipedia there were 75 private shools in 2007. I have never met anyone who went to private school nor have I ever even seen one.
3) The 9th grade test was atleast at my school more like "let's see how you might compare to others, but lets throw the results in the bin afterwards". The after high school test is quite important. That doesn't mean everything (and you can retake it).
4) My mother was a teacher and I can testify that they don't get paid royally and their work is VERY hard compared to the pay If they wish to be good.
5) What are you saying about my mother?
agree👍
I go to private school in Finland so now you know that you've kinda "met" one. And I've been there since first class, so I haven't ever been in a public schools or what do you call them..?
Same, never seen a private school, nor met anyone who goes to one, but then again, I lived in a rather small city.
But have you met anyone who's been to a public school? Cause it's starting to sound a bit like there are two Finlands, not one.
+Saviour Sam Agius if you are talking to me then yes, I know a lot of people who goes to public schools because there is a lot more of them than private schools.
You should end your Vlogs with "We are Finnished for today" get it
Unfortunately you failed miserably when trying to be funny. We finns are more than fed up hearing english speaking people making the finish/finnish puns. When a million other people have used the same joke, it is more irritating than funny. So, I'm happy he is not using that phrase.
That was funny stop being a bore.
Skelloween its rlly annoying tho
Waaaah. I thought it was funny. Perhaps delicate Finns aren't the target audience?
Zak Farley 420 liker
You pointed some myths that needed to be corrected. The "no homework" and "no testing" are just headers originally made by american journalists, while the reality is "much less homework than in other OECD PISA top countries" and "no regular, standardized testing".
Thanks for adding the written corrections of your hasty claims, I hope more than just a few watchers actually noticed and read them.
The nationwide tests at the end of 9th grade have very little (if any) effect in the grades in the graduation diploma, or future school choices. Even the matriculation exam at the end of upper secondary school (senior high school) does not determine what the kids can do in the future and what not.
In the finnish system, there are several paths to future studies. You can go to a less popular upper secondary school if you have below average grades, and still get the high quality education and skills to enter any top university program. Heck, you can even enter university studies WITHOUT having gone to upper secondary school and without the matriculation exam. So, going to a vocational college to become a carpenter or car mechanic does not mean you can't apply to a polytechnic, university master program or even doctor program later in your life if you so wish. The path is longer, but it is still there. And still without tuition fees.
He looks as crazy english teacher in Finland))
It's what I do....
Glad to help you out on myth number 1. It's part of a Michael Moore film in which he interviewed teens from one school who said they had little to no homework. No one else supports the broad claim, as far as I can tell. On the contrary, school systems in which I worked in the Far East gave little homework: Japan, Korea, Taiwan. One reason for that is that most students attend what are called "cram" schools after school, often at their own insistence, not necessarily that of their parents. A couple of days a week it's math, a day or two science, a day or two English, a day or two music... I know what you're thinking, they have weeks longer than 7 days. Really, it's some overlapping, where they attend two different classes a day. (I taught 5 years in Japan, 3 in Korea, and 9 in Taiwan. People I know from the latter two countries say the situation is the same or similar today.) When I lived in Hawaii, incidentally, children of Chinese, Japanese, and Korean heritage went to school on Saturday to study their family's language, mainly the literary language and the use of traditional writing (Chinese characters, the kana systems, and Hangul, respectively). Maybe the high ranking that students from these cultures have in math and in science has something to do with their discipline in studying language, as well. Another high achieving group in the US are students who study Hebrew. There may be a correlation between valuing language study (and study of one's traditional family culture) with high performance in other disciplines. Just a thought,
I'm in high school in Finland right now. We got lots of mandatory homework in elementary and middle school, probably to teach us how to study at home and responsibilities and stuff... but right now, atleast in my high school, pretty much any homework we are given is optional (depending on the teacher and the course, it might be mandatory but we also might not get any at all). Usually in subjects like maths the students know themselves that they won't get far if they don't do any work outside of school and can decide for themselves how much they need to do, and so our teacher never really asks us if we've done our homework. Essays are another thing though...
in Finland, teachers aren't paid like lawyers, lawyers are paid like teachers.
Private schools are kind of rare in finland tho. I went to steiner school, but I don't know any other major ones. Which one do you teach in?
There is quite many private schools for example in Helsinki. But it is "different kind of private" than for example in UK. Private schools get funding from goverment even though they are private. Normally these schools have some extra subjects that they teach more: music, art sport.
for the first myth yes we do get homework or atleast when i went to school i got homework every single day but that was back in the 90's so i dont know if it has changed much
Im in sixth grade and we have over 3 tests every week
which country?
As a Finn, we always had homework. (but I managed mostly without doing those in elementary and hs). But then it turned out really hard to get in to senior hs after that, you are right about that. They rank students by their success in elementary and junior hs. But I still appreciate very much the fairness of it, every child can either work hard or not, and it's not about money.
as being a 8th grader in Finland I barely ever get home work like maybe 1 paper a week
Thanks for the insight!
Myth 5. Hmm. In most US states, you need a bachelor's degree plus a teaching certificate of some kind. At the secondary schools, you usually need a subject-specific certificate, which, while not an MA, is still an extra qualification. On the contrary, American schools sometimes reject a higher qualification in favor of a lower, as was the case when I studied German at a community college. My professor had a doctorate in teaching German but was not allowed to teach at a US university because of restrictions imposed by (non-unionized) faculty at the time. She taught us to read Fraktur, for example, and she helped me get private tutoring from a German national living in my city (San Jose, primarily Hispanic, not German). But to tackle the point you seem to be eliding, it's a sad fact that GRE scores for admission to graduate programs in education are lower on average than for programs in the sciences or in a field like history or even English literature. While not gainsaying top educational institutions like Columbia Teachers' College, I am not as impressed by what people in education write as I am in fields like history. For example, a rather thoughtful book came out last year about the overuse of detention and suspension in American schools. Alas, it opened with one of these ubiquitous "phony quotes" that people just love to decorate their books with. All the authors had to do was do a check of the supposed famous saying to find that it was wrong--and in so doing they might have found something much better, and accurate, to boot.
The thing with private schools is that they can't be making profit. So yes, we do have private schools but they're not companies trying to make money. I think that's what makes the difference.
The thing about the masters degree is that you need to actually have a masters degree in *teaching*, and of course masters in the class you are going to teach.
Exceptions do not make the rule. Your kids are the exception. The trade unions have protected their profession and that is an excellent thing. They really are given flexibility to teach and kids (in my experience) are encouraged to help each other and that kids are much less likely to get left behind.
I would say that the private schools do exist, that is correct.. But school can be private only if it has a special purpose like providing education in foreign language wich wouldn't be possible otherwise. etc. And they can collect tuition but they can not be "for-profit".
Darn, Prince Ea came out with a video and said Finland doesn't give homework. Thanks for the clarification
I never heard any of those myths about Finland's education.
(I am finnish) In high school you CAN do your homework during the lesson. But in the primary school you cant do your homework in the school. That is not fair, I guess...
What is the difference between singapore and finland education system?
how do teachers collaborate with colleague/professionals within the school system to help ( give extra help) individual students - if need be - ?
the national exams (atleast in My school) are only one test and have the same Weight as normal ones and some don't even affect your grade at all
Good video, even though there were a few mistakes here and there(which have already been corrected by others) but i really I gotta ask, do you teach at the English School? The talk of a private school with a ~600 euro fee rang a bell. I graduated high school there like 6 years ago... Man i feel old.
Thanks! Yes, I taught at TES last year.
they say you don't get homework in Finland because you get alot less homework in here.
I always feel sorry for people who comes to live here in Finland.. This is such a shitty little country with nothing special going on and in fact seem to go bankrupt any time now... cant understand why anyone want to move here? What could be the motivation? I'm sure there are lots of worse places but still.
you have great metal bands :)
marlinda peacock well.... thanks.?
Finland isn't perfect but it isn't so terrible either! I moved here because visiting schools in Finland reignited my passion for teaching. Despite some frustrations I'm still very happy with my decision to move here because of the satisfaction I've found working as a teacher here. Hope this helps!
Tyler Walton Ok then.
Social security, do you know the situation in other countries?
Myth 6: Finland exists
This is the problem I have with a semi-ignorant but overly self confident US'er busting myths: You are actually creating and/or solidifying them. Thankfully we have helpful, patient Finnish people putting in the effort to sort out inaccuracies in English, which is a third language they learned at school. Some humility might look good on you, Tyler Walton.
I am in the and of night grate and I can tell that there is no important tests but just regular tests like always. But closer you get to finnish the numbers are just weight more complicated to earlier tests
I live in Japan and here they idealize a lot Finnish education. There are some other different things that I´m not sure they are myths and that weren´t explored in the video. For example, they say in Finland the classroom has a smaller number of students (Japan has an average of 35 to maximum 39 at Elementary school level) and that the format is different. In Japan they make the traditional square shaped classroom with several rows and everybody studies the same thing. They say in Finland there is no square shape and no rows and that the Ss can stand up whenever they want and walk freely, come to the teacher´s desk to ask things personally, etc (when in Japan they should remain seated if not given permission). They also say Finnish education stimulates more creativity and that each student may be studying different topics, at different levels or totally different subjects in the same classroom. Are all those myths as well?
I think it depends on the teacher since teacher's have a lot of autonomy here to structure their class how they see fit. There's certainly no mandate that teachers should be stricter or more authoritarian.
*teachers
and I'm supposedly the English teacher XD
The reason Americans are talking about Finland not having homework is more fixated on the younger grades. Right now in the us kindergarteners in some districts are coming home with 3 hours of homework a night. I think our country is currently freaking out about the overload on the younger grades. The younger grades are suffering in an effort to bring national averages up and actually the higher amounts of homework are back firing. Good video though, thanks for the clarification.
Elizabeth Ludden Asians have much more homework than Americans. What Americans think of homework is like nothing too hard and time consuming for us.
In America students shouldn’t get homework until 5th grade.
We have the most advanced education system in the world and one reason is because we get a shitload of homework.... I have never heard of these myths
yo im german and honestly i dont get why you`d even start a private school like that. over here private schools are just schools that pretty much dont recieve any funding from the state but also cost an arm and a leg to send your kids to. but your kind of private school doesnt really seem to get anything out of theyr private status and the even have to abide a given curiculum so why even do it that way?
The private school thing is almost as there are no private schools. There aren't any private school that doesn't have majority of the funding from the government as you said, and there are very few private schools to begin with. Tuition fee is vastly lower than in most parts of the world where there are private schools. Private schools here are much closer to public schools in every aspect. Therefore it would be quite misleading to tell just that "Finland has private schools":
I went to a private upper secondary school and we had no fees.
Hahah "be a supporter of the movement. What is the movement? Nothing" you're so funny! xD
haha thanks :P
Idk what is that school you're teaching in, but it doesn't sound anything like the school I went. We had a few national tests at 9th year, but nobody studied for them harder than usually, which certainly was not much. School was completely free, only thing costing was skiing trip once a year. Homework? Mm, sometimes yeah. Most teachers just didn't check them, so why an earth would I have done them?
My credentials: I am 25 years old, I was born in Finland, I have lived here my entire life and my family is Finnish.
I don't know about 2nd or 3rd but the first myth is indeed just a myth. I have never heard that 4th myth. They probably don't get as much but they are really well trained and their job and salary are much more secured - and they are more respected (this is what I have heard, don't know if it is true).
I don't know about myth n:o 5 and I have never heard of it... It's pretty much like he said: Difficult to get in, a lot of work before you get to be a teacher and they are well trained. Actually, my cousin tried to get in with almost perfect scores and they didn't take her. So it's not just that you have to have good grades...
But there are some really good things going on in our education system that need to be studied if you care about education. And we all have something to improve.
Thanks for the insight!
Hi!what do you teach in finland?and do you teach speaking in english or in finnish?
Also students choose at age 15 whether they wish to proceed to university or polytechnic when they're 18. Some elect to do a double-diploma (kaksoistutkinto) but those are largely worthless.
After this the students then are split into two classes - Amis and Lukio, or Vocational and Precollege.
Some people in this comment section seems confused on this point (or just biased?), but there ARE some really important tests that you take when you're younger - the lukio you want to get into, if it's a "higher regarded one" at least, demands a high GPA, and a high GPA is very much in correlation with outcomes on your end-of-year-finals as well as the exams you take at the end of every subject. There is of course contention on what if getting to the "best" lukio does you any good or not, but it is factually relevant that some schools are harder to get to, objectively, than others.
So, you completely overlooked Amis and Amkki, which account for the "other half" of the population - not everyone who has a higher degree goes to "high school" and "college", and the non- or semi-academic counterparts (amis especially) is simply not even close. Vocational schools as the name suggests are meant for people who want to get into work life faster and couldn't care less about advanced calculus or anything past basic algebra. An example of such a vocation would be pastry chefs.
You will not get a job in this country without paperwork showing you can do it. Not even floor-sweeping can be done without a receipt of Finnish fluency and a high school diploma. This is especially hard on immigrants who literally can't get jobs sweeping floors if they wanted them, and who're the effectively "forced" to take social benefits. If you could get 700euros per month not working at all, or 700 euros working 8 hours a day, what would you choose?
You're right! I failed to give a holistic view of education in Finland, but I wanted to focus more closely on how the myths themselves were inaccurate. I have so much to learn still! Thanks for the insight!
You're welcome! Thanks for taking the time to read what I splurged.
...Wait a minute, stereotypical soccer mom "dads" in their 30s still exist? I had no idea, I thought that ended in the early 2000s because we all focus on letting our kids be real listened-to people now.
where do you teach?
teacher's a master's degree in ...education? or anything , or specific subjects?
Why can't my teachers be as good as this guy. All my teachers are just cranky old ladys...
1. They do homework....that's a mythical myth.
2. They do exist....never heard that,Tyler. #privates
3.Standardized testing is crazier in US ....u did not debunk that
----You are not funny. U have bad body language for a comic and serious talk.
4. Where did u hear that? What I hear is teachers are professionals.
5. Its cos Tyler is not a smart teacher!!!
Hahahaha. Finnish teachers are prestigious.
I did not finish the video.....Pun intended
'Live long and Prosper' ✋
Would you mind to be a bit more precise... Give me the percentage of the Finnish schools that are private schools compared to dito i the US ? -Private compulsory schools in Finland can probably be counted on your fingers and toes , young man (if you don´t count the faith-based or international schools) ! Less than 2 precent of the kids go to private schools there.
I have no idea who thought we dont get homework in Finland :D
I thought Finnish children turn into race car drivers
do all teachers have master's degrees?
ah answered....
You can be my teacher anytime
Oh yes we get a lot of homework in Finland. It's awful.
I love your sense of humour...n somehow u make me feel that my 2 yr old will talk just like you..lol...God bless ..
ancient Nordic peetmoss throne drip
What do you teach? And what grade?
English. 9th grade and high school.
Is this guy trying to be the center of his message? or is he trying to be "funny"? his behavior takes seriousness from his words.
I have never done homework and i graduate soon
Every teacher in Finland have to have master's degree. You may be able to be a part time teacher without it, but i dont think so.
+Shadow of Horse If I'm not totally mistaken, you can teach in vocational school without master's degree.
+Tuutulaulu no you still have to get a master's degree
+Shadow of Horse +Tuutulaulu You're probably talking about AMK - ammattikorkeakoulu which is somewhat parallel to University. "Amis" or ammattikoulu or "vocational school" do NOT necessitate master's degrees.
www.kuntatyonantajat.fi/fi/sopimukset/opettajat/ammatillinen-koulutus/Sivut/ammatillisten-opettajien-kelpoisuudet.aspx
But you can lecture in university without master's degree.
Yep. I was doing that for a while as an undergraduate. I was actually lecturing my year group in an applied psychology lecture course.
Where do you teach?
Seems that Finnish people are happy with their educational system, unlike other countries where the educational system is often pointed out as responsible for social regression,,,,
well we do have the best educational system in the world or so I've heard
Well people do like to throw that saying around (especially Finns), and we do have a good education system, but saying it's the best is kinda overstatement. Finland has scored highly in the PISA tests, but that's about it. There are many other international tests that Finland hasn't done as well.
Teachers in Finland get paid less than their American counterparts, except:
-They have far less student loan debt than American teachers. Most of them graduate as teachers without any debt.
-They don't have to pay for health insurance, since there is functional public healthcare.
-The schools are better funded, so they are better equipped to do their jobs and teach the kids, which leads to a far more pleasant work environment.
***** I know how the Finnish tax system works, since that's where I live. The schools I went to, and especially the teachers there were good and dedicated, and I think that's more valuable than the difference in taxes I have to pay.
Thanks for the insight!
@@Cyberspine Tell that to my nation (Argentina). Not only is debt already a thing the second you are born, your nation sucks at keeping itself together and your pay is carp like every other profession. Its no mystery why most schools have had some teacher literally lose their shit
Public school teachers do not pay for healthcare.
Finnish students sure get homework but you never have to do it. At least I didn't when I was in school :D
Also matriculation exams don't count for much, for universities you get in if you do well in entrance exams.
I think the reason why Finnish education system is good like it is, is because it is developed by experts of the field not politicians. Similar to Finland's prison system.
Thanks for the insight!
Wth are you talking about we did have to do them
wait so its volanary?.......fml
well hell yeah we have to do it.
you look like young version of misha collins
I thought the same thing!
Thanks!
Hahaaa yh lol
Lmao now i can't unsee it 😂
I must say this again : In the USA 7% of the High School grads can't find the USA on a world map.
Because there is no USA country on World map, because it is not USA , but Estados Unidos de America Norte, key pinche Eskimo go carve some wood.
Eskimo? Wrong continent dude...
He's part of the 7% so it's no surprise...
Well, he said in spanish, guess.
Eskimo? I think this proves the the OP's case.
I work as a teacher in Ecuador and I've studied in Iceland and Spain. Just the idea of making a funny video is a huge innovation...in all the countries I studied teachers take themselves too seriously. I always say to my students don't take yourself too serious allow yourself to be ridiculous...allow yourself to try and to fail....if teachers in Finland can laugh at themselves they have the best education
Thanks! I feel quite the same. I think there's quite a diverse group of teachers here in Finland, some on the more serious side and some on the more, well, 'Tyler end' of the spectrum. :P
guagualinda 1
Here in argentina my class drove our health teacher to maddness after having to deal with us for 2 years....still dont know what happend to the baldy, he was spitting image of the exact oppiste of a Finish teacher. In other words a drill Sargent
"But for now, let's dance" - I think we have our catchphrase right there!
Also, thank you for debunking these myths! I'm so tired of explaining this stuff to people. We have a (mostly) good education system here but it's not how they potray it abroad. Oh how I wish teachers got paid as well as doctors...
+Lotta Aurora Was about to write the same thing about the catchphrase, but the only problem is: He doesn't always dance in the End of a video :/. He could start doing so, though ;).
Vince Dancing in the beginning, middle and end! :D
+Lotta Aurora Deal. :D
+Lotta Aurora www.terve.fi/laakarikirja/miksi-laakari-tekee-itsemurhan
Call it a "hazard benefit", doctors are one of the few professions that don't get to not do overtime. Sure, teachers can have it tough, but at least they get to go home every night, and can go on strike if they don't.
Doctors? Yeah. Overtime comes with the territory, and so does the suicide rate.
I think he should shout "Jumalautavittusaatana" at the end of every video, it is kinda like "cowabunga" here in Finland
I've never even heard of those 9th grade-tests, haha. And I'm born and raised in Finland :)
eiks teil ollu pisa kokeit vai mitä ne oli??
ei ne keskiarvoo vaikuttanu mut meil oli joku 4 sellast eri aineista
Yes, we had PISA-tests, but we didn't have them in 9th grade, it was like 8th grade I think, and not everyone did them, only a few randomly selected participated. I never did them, a friend of mine did though. In the video he's talking abut some other test that actually influence your grades and influence which high school you can go to, I've never heard of them, have you? :)
Anteeks että kirjoitan englanniksi, oon suomenroutsalainen ja olen asunut Ahvenanmaalla ja Ruotsissa noin 7 ja 6 vuotta nyt, valitettavasti olen unohtanut aika paljon suomea :(
I did math test atleast at 9th but I dont remember the reason why. but only like one or two guys did it from my class wity me
Never heard of pisa tests but we had matikan, enkun ja ruotsin valtakunnaliset and some years a Finnish valtakunnalinen too in 9th grade
I think he propably meant "valtakunnalliset kokeet". Those everyone has (during 9th grade) I think, but they don't determine which school you can continue to or anything like that. At least my experience is that they affect your grade same as any other test. The only difference is that they compare you to the whole finland and not just your school.
Any idea where the "no homework" myth originated? Anyone who's even remotely familiar with Finnish schools should definitely know better.
All I personally know is that my younger brother who was on spec ed didn't receive homework - for _weekends_.
I guess it may have something to do with the new curriculum.
And I have heard of teachers who don't specifically give homework, but they give the students all the tasks in the beginning of the course and there's so much to do that at least most people have to do something at home. But this gives more responsibility to the students - they can choose when they are going to do the tasks.
Maybe because of all the documentaries or videos on youtube spreed through out the world, we peruvians had that myth too
Michael Moore promoted that myth. Like many others he promotes, they get traction with self proclaimed socialists and emotionally motivated people
I think the myth that Finnish teachers get paid like doctors etc is because the profession is a highly respected one on par (or even higher than) doctors according to studies that come out ever so often.
well youcant find the respection now a days. Like last corona year, teacher worked really hard and now goverment says that yah schools need tobe open so student can catch up whit the lock down studies.When achually the teachwr made sure the kids did learn those thing atthe time. Past 5 years teacher has only get "bigger salary" in the media when actually those "pay rises" has been a bluff because they just made the salory evwn smaller. Also teacher don't get a corona-suplement with their salary
Never heard any of these myths, but then again, I live in Finland.
hooray!
About the 9th grade exam. It is national, but it depends on the schools if they want to test the pupils. My school took English and maths, some took none.
Have a nice one!
+Matti Heikkilä I think my school did only the math test but it's kinda pointless because it doesn't matter, it doesn't affect your grades or if it does, it's only a small part of your grade
I only had the maths test but the pupils who have German or French had the test for it too.
+Sorbet The actual idea is for the system to check how did they do. So in a way gather some grades from around Finland to be sure the students are alright. So it is not for students per se.
Yeah the only reason those test are done is statistics gathering. As far as I understand they even anonymize out the schools from the results. All they want is a set of exams data across Finland to make statistical check, that the overall year class is performing at normal level.
It has no effect on the school or the student, unless the school itself decides to count it as normal 9th year test just like any other or wants to internally use it to compare between years. Any extra weight given to it is purely a matter of schools own choice.
Thank you for the insight!
Loved your video! But in my school there was no exam in 9th grade that let me know where i could go to study, i mean i did go to this one private schools exam to find out if i could go there but i'm not sure if you meant that... anyway keep up the good work!
+Alyssa Shipley Interesting! Perhaps I'm perpetuating a new myth! I'll look into it and make a notation. Thanks for commenting!
+Tyler Walton Well we do have these national tests, atleast in math (dont remember any others) but they don't determine where we will continue from that point on. The Average grade from our full middleschool diploma or some subjects plus entry tests in some schools determine the next place to study in. Btw great videos! keep it up :)
+Alyssa Shipley Assuming he's only experienced the system of the school he teaches, which I go to, I believe he's referring to that school's final exams in 9th grade. When I arrived as a high school student, they mentioned that the former 9th graders would have a better idea of how the high school system works, with exams at the end of each semester. All other comprehensive schools, including my own, probably don't have any final exams, but rather tests scattered throughout the school year.
+Mortti Minkkinen okey that makes sence, thanks
I think he maybe meant "valtakunnalliset kokeet", but they don't determine where you can continue to any more than any other exams. It's just a way to compare you to the whole Finland instead of that school.
I'm 50- years old finnish and father of two (15&17 years) and son of the teacher. I have at least 3 relatives who are teachers. So I think that I have something to say about this topic.
Myth 1: No homework. As you said, that's not correct. But the amount of the homework is less than what it was 5, 10 or 35 years ago.
Myth 2: Private schools. As you said we have those and it's even legal to teach your children at home. Why not? This is not communist country like sweden... Families from sweden moves to finland (to place called Ahvenanmaa) to do homeschooling. It's possible to work at Stockholm and live at finland... It takes some effort but if you want to do homeschooling your swedish children you can do at the finland. There is private finnish schools even at abroad which get money from government. No finns left behind.
Myth 3: As you said, after the 9th year your grades are the way to high school. And those are grades from the whole year, not just one test. After high school, your grades help to get place for university etc. If you're people of minority, that means swedish speaking finn, then it's easier for you. Some finnish speaking finns goes to swedish speaking schools because it's easier - if you can speak swedish. So those guys are not smart - they just can speak swedish.
Myth 4: Rich teachers. No they are not as you said. But they get 12 months salary for less than 9 months work...
Myth 5: Smart/stupid teachers. Won't comment that one.
+catchbay Just a fun fact: According to YLE Swedish speaking Finns are one year behind in PISA results compared to Finnish speaking Finns. They sure need those quotas ...
case 2) Private, but non-profit. Making business out of publicly available and applicable education is illegal in Finland (private training courses etc. are a different matter). The school mentioned in video must be one of the few international school. They are essentially not part of Finnish system at all and are allowed to ask tuition. They are only licensed under Finnish system with a big asterisk next to them, because it is illegal to have unlicensed school in Finland. So government gives them license under Finnish government and then says do whatever you want, as long as you don't start providing general education to Finnish kids. We don't care what you do with the foreign diplomat's kids (for whom these are mostly meant for). These schools are meant for foreigners in Finland, but some internationally minded Finns do attend and as he mentioned even though they don't have to many follow the Finnish National Curriculum. not because they have to, but because it is a good basic curriculum.
No school teaching on official languages of Finland is allowed to ask tuition. They are all government funded and thus must be non-profit, licensed by government and follow Finnish national curriculum. Only thing they pretty much are allowed to decide is their teaching methods and if they want include extra stuff on top the National Curriculum. Likewise home schoolers must follow the national curriculum and at extreme the municipality can force the home schooled kids to normal school, if municipality thinks the parents are doing really bad job at the education or don't follow national curriculum (you can teach extra, but you can't ignore and leave out stuff mentioned on National curriculum.). This is because the kids right to decent education is considered more important than the parents right to home school.
Not sure where you've found that information as I couldn't google it.
According to the info I found Swedish and Finnish speakers are now equal in mathematics and problem solving (2012) while Finnish speakers are ahead in science and literacy.
Science and literacy happens to be the 2 subjects that Finland score top of the world in as well.
Regarding the scores they've been dropping for both Finnish and Swedish speakers over the years but they're declining faster for the Finnish speakers. Therefore it's not really a case of Swedish speakers catching up but Finnish speakers getting worse at a faster rate.
ktl.jyu.fi/en/recent-news/t301014
Before you yell the R-word, please calm down and think why "finns" are now more stupid than before when usually people get smarter after the generations.
There are a lot of new children whose parents don't have the same gene pool as the locals. This is small country so few thousand can make a different. If you look what has happened to this country for last 20 years you can see that there are now a lot of new children whose origins are not from here and which are first time part of the PISA.
The JYU study show that now the people from Åland (isolated area, population which is 100% Swedish speaking finns, won't accept people from mainland) have made a good job against the mainland. That doesn't mean that people living at there are now suddenly smarter than before. Åland is the only place in Finland which has the right to not to get any "refugees". There is no one from other "culture". (Sounds like Darwin and Galápagos Islands..).
The local charts are made for 1) Swedish speaking finns and 2) for the rest. The "new finns" are mostly at the finn-speaking schools...
If you look old IQ statistics you can see that Swedish (the real one who are living at Sweden) are superior to finns. The modern PISA shows something else. Why? Maybe something to do that there are a lot of "new Sweds"...
But you can't say that. You can't do two charts at the Sweden. One for the children whose parent's have been there for generations and one for those who have been there maybe max 2 generations and have no need to challenge their brains - everything is there for no effort.
Why there is so big IQ difference between real Sweds, finns and Swedish speaking finns - you can check it out by yourself or denied the truth. Hint: small isolated population degenerates. Look the map, study the history.
You really didn't denied what I said? That's odd :-) You gave more information for the subject which is good.
At the abroad there are "Finnish" schools, some of those get money from our government and some not. Which schools get the money and which not? That's good Q but I won't go deeper for that at here. Those who do not get are funded by the parents or the local community.
At the "homeland :-)" we DO have private schools. Schools which have the power to pick or reject the children. And they are not looking the children, they are looking the parents... Of course they can't ask money from the families DIRECTLY but we all know how it works... The major player say it at their own page: www.steinerkoulu.fi/index.php?page=mitamaksaa
(translation: school is free BUT....)
I was for public school for every one, but I'm not anymore. Maybe I can do something if/when I get grandchildren.
Most people watching videos about Finland are Finnish.
Yes, it's interesting that I made a video debunking myths that many Finns had no idea even existed. lol I'm not sure I'm reaching the target audience. XD
Video starts at 1:30
Dude looks like Milo Yiannopoulos' brother. Or husband.
I'm so happy about your way of making this video, because i've seen too many people just discussing these things without the facts, actual experience or knowledge of the matter. I mean yes, of course everyone can talk about anything and upload it to the interwebs (lol) but they do too often come across as "i came to finland and saw that this thing is different than in my country and i don't understand but i'm just gonna talk about it's absurdy without getting to know more and learn about it." U know? I bet u know.
Also taking my enterance exam to Helsinki university tomorrow! Fingers crossed 😁
Lykkyä pyttyyn!
you made a good point. Every country has its own system.
Good luck for your exam
Thanks! I hope you got into the university!
I live in Finland and I didn't know that we have private schools D:
You guys are still doing much better than us. (United States)
Ahem... Mr Tyler if i may say. Finland does have Elementary school, High school, College and University. so you wont go from 9th grade to High school since 7-9 is High school and then from there 11-14/15 are College. 10th class is class which will be taken if you need to re do 9th class.
Thank you.
well the scool system of Finland have been changed like half year ago and I am One of the "test dolls" and with that I mean that we can Advance that speed we want and do our homeworks if we want, but we have to do more tests than usually (but the tests are smaller) and that "new education system have been tested in history with us and another Time with math have just begun (but most of us have Normaly homeworks) but what I am saying with this statement is that it's possible that in several years nobody in Finland may have no home work but that makes our work more indipendance. (and sorry for a potential bad grammal I am just 14 years old and english is not my stongest subject in scool)
hope you understand what I am saying
English is my best subject. The only one I got a 10.
Hi, I'm from Brazil and English is not my first language, but tell about your classroom, the students sit in line? I've heard not, you make groups and sit in circles. That's true?
Also i had no test in 9th grade. You get test if you apply for high schools which are concentrating for one subject. For example, if there is sport high school, you will need to do physical test and so on.
Private schools are quite marginal in Finland. They probably educate much less than 5% of Finnish children. The private high schools in Helsinki are quite an exception. Most Finnish municipalities have no private schools at all. Larger cities usually have a private Steiner school or a Christian school but most of children in cities too go to public schools. Getting to establish is a private school in Finland is quite rigorous process but after the school is approved it can also get municipal funding.
Hey!! awesome video ...and final dance lol
You've just debunked some myths but I still wonder... what's the appreciation from the society to teachers? I mean, in my country it's the lowest paid profession and often looked as an "undesirable" job. the joke goes that if you get into a teaching program in college it's because your scores were so low you couldn't get into anything else.
greetings! =)
PS: do you have IG?
Thanks! I do what I can. ;) Teaching in Finland is not a glamorous position or anything, but it is well respected.
Hi! I have never heard the claim that teachers in Finland are paid as much as doctors and lawyers. But what I have heard, is that teachers here are respected as much as doctors and lawyers and are paid a decent salary..
When I was in elementary school in finland we got a lot more of of homework compared to lower secondary or high school, which is a bit more independent depending on teacher. There's no "high stakes testing", the national test weighed only 10% in our subject grades in our ninth year, and to me that's not very "high". But because it was a new thing and seemed really official everyone kind of stressed about it, and of course it was like a onetime thing so I guess you can't retake it just like that. ALSO on many, probably most university lines you can get to without going through high school at all and having matriculation examination grades, by just preparing for the entrance exam and doing very well in it and having some other merits. So really, any grades in finland count a LOT less than in most other countries.
Thanks for the insight! This is helpful to know. :)
Another great video (and totally worth the wait)! As a future teacher, I find it very frustrating to read these kinds of myths floating around the internet, because there are actually some very valid reasons as to why Finnish education is so highly appreciated, and these statements are simply not true, which kinda takes away from the credibility of the system. So a big kiitos to you for debunking the myths! :)
+Anna Kuosmanen Check youtube channel "Katie In Finland". She is teacher from New Mexico and came to finland over year ago. Living at Jyväskylä right now.
Thanks! I'm glad to hear you enjoy the content. :)
Thats your catch phrase "JOIN THE MOVEMENT -- DANCE":
At last, someone finally telling the reality of Finnish education. After years of both Finnish and outside media promoting the educational system of Finland by spreading nothing but fallacies, all of which you mentioned, it's relieving to hear someone say some truth. It's obvious that Finland wants to seem significant among other countries by capitalising on it's only high statistic that means anything to people outside the country. Recently short documentary was released by some British media company, where they interviewed the staff and teachers of my old school. I was absolutely filled with rage, as they spouted claims such as, "we give lots of free time", " we give hardly any homework", and "we only want them to be happy", after four years of the complete opposite.
Anyway, well done on your videos and continue producing more.
+Mortti Minkkinen It ain't Finland who is spreading the falsehoods lol. It is some american leftist magazines and publications.
wow did people had these myths about us in finland ,':/
I think the quality of the educational system really boils down to flexibility and purposeful design. Instead of forcing a one-size-fits-all scheme, students are always the driving force behind the actions taken. It doesn't matter what the situation has been so far, there's always an avenue to progress in a direction of your choosing. The reason almost everyone has a masters, as you mentioned, is because the system will work around your life rather than the other way around. Way less expenses and drop outs at every tier, and a better overall quality because people's self esteem and finances aren't beaten into the dirt for stepping out of line. Any surprise that people realize how much money a masters degree will get you and then, y'know, actually get one? The utopian myths are certainly absurd and it's not even remotely perfect, but it is objectively better than the authoritarian shit the US is pulling at K-12 levels, and the absurd prices of tertiary education.
Thanks for the insight!
hi there, i loved your video, im a teacher in Argentina, and our education is faaaaaar away from yours. im really interested to know more about your system education in finland, if you have some serious web pages i can read ill be really pleased, Greetings from down here!!!!
Thanks, Marisa! Here's a great article that helps to demystify what teachers are like in Finland. www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2015/02/12/teach-for-finland-why-it-won't-happen/
"Sorry, we can’t seem to find the page you’re looking for."
If you search "Teach for Finland" you can find it. Sorry about the link!
Tyler Walton
Ah - Pasi Sahlberg .... not sure I trust him. What he talks about in Finnish schools is not what happens in most Finnish schools. Might in schools run by the universities' schools of education, but not in those run by municipalities - like the ones my daughter went to.
."finland isn't this paradise you think it is"
he says while showing viewers his incridebly beautiful home, set in land greener than the moss in ireland, on top of a lake.
your end catch phrase could be "Moi-moi" (and i don't mean the French "moi"!) altho that might be more suitable in the beginning but it works in the end too... ask your students ;)
Good idea!
You should say "For now, we finnish!" xD
I got homeworks from my first school day to this day. Okay, not in everyday, but usually. And our teacher gave us summer homeworks in fuor first years.
Your teachers sound like badasses.
Does anyone have any information about the Finnish teacher training program? How long is the program and what type of support is offered for new teachers, such as mentors? With regards to high school, are most of the classes taught with one teacher or more and what is the average class size?
Here's a link to the subject teacher education programme in English. www.helsinki.fi/teachereducation/step/
As a student in Finland I totally agree to having homework and tests. I mean, a lot less than in other countries and less of that "learn this specific test and don't learn anything creative" homework.
Homework!?
Try Singapore or Hong Kong. Then you will know what is never ending "homework" from standard 1 (7 years old by the way)!
Here in Croatia as well ^^
soooo... finland just has the best educational system?
THANK YOU!!!!!
I'm sick of having to debunk those shitty myths!
You're welcome! :)
Thank you! I was born and raised in Finland and got all my education there. Over 10 years ago I moved to the UK and keep hearing about the amazing no-homework and no-testing education system that Finland has which has left me utterly baffled. Have the schools changed so much since my primary school days in 1990s and early 2000s? I asked some of my acquaintances who are teachers and they confirmed that those tales are a load of bollocks. But it's good to see someone busting the myths more publically as well.