The Bible says "Don't get drunk." That's what it says. Literally every other argument I've head that says, "Christians shouldn't drink" is a mixture of man-made doctrine, poorly researched history, logical fallacy, torturing the text to make it say something it doesn't, and people who've had problems with alcohol in the past (themselves or someone they care about) that are trying to impose tee-totaling on everyone else.
If you’re drinking, stop drinking! You can’t get drunk until you start drinking. And the first drink you take, you’re no longer sober. Whatever degree it might be, you’re not with the same mind that you used to have. YOU CAN’T GET DRUNK UNTIL YOU TAKE THE FIRST ONE!
People say drinking is ok but being drunk is not. They overlook that drinking gets you drunk. Its one of the most simple concepts. It baffles me how people don't get this
You're really stretching there. Your argument is like saying "Having an ice-cream cone can lead to gluttony, which leads to obesity, which leads to heart disease, and we should never enjoy an ice cream cone.
It depends on a number of factors: How much you drink, your weight, how much food is in your stomach, your individual tolerance to alcohol, how fatigued you are at the moment, and possibly several other factors.
There is no doubt in my heart that drunkenness at any level and to any extent is described as sinful in Yahweh's word. Alcoholism and drunkenness involve addiction. Nevertheless, there is a problem with some of the points from the Greek in this video. An example is this: to say that the aorist indicates "a 'point' in time." Please rethink the point. The aorist actually indicates an "unlimited or undefined" condition. The best manner to determine what Greek (also Hebrew and Aramaic) means is to read ancient literature and see how they are used lexically and linguistically. We as members of the body of Christ must be certain that we speak from the facts, and not from traditional positions.
Any interpretation that contradicts the 12 times we are told to be sober in the New Testament is obviously not correct. Six occurrences use the Greek word "nepho" which specifically means to abstain from alcohol/intoxicating/poisoning. Problems in interpretation arise from not knowing the Greek. For example, contrary to common usage today, "wine" also referred to grape juice.
@@joemonroe9456 a couple of questions will enable us to see what God's word is saying. (1) 1 Timothy 3:8 Paul says deacons must "not indulging in too much wine" ( the Greek phrase is...ME OINO POLLO PROSECHONTAS). Does this mean a deacon is not to indulge in too much grape juice? (2) Paul says in 1 Timothy 3:3 and Titus 1:7 that an overseer must "not be addicted to wine..." (the Greek phrase is ...ME PAROINON). Does this mean an overseer is not to be addicted to grape juice?
My brothers in the video, you have done a good job of creating arguments over words- too many fastidious arguments to justify an EXTRA-BIBLICAL conjecture, namely, that the call for being sober is NECESSARILY a call for not tasting an alcoholic drink. To successfully elevate this opinion to the level of an authorititive divine command as you press to, you will forever need to first enroll the whole world in a Greek Language course and reedit the mainstream versions of the scriptures which easily show through all the reference passages on drinking, absolutely NOTHING is written as "do not taste any amount of alcohol for tasting any amount alcohol is drunkenness". This is the opinion you are trying hard advance as divine command here. It's is false.
//...that the call for being sober is NECESSARILY a call for not tasting an alcoholic drink. // Sober: not affected by alcohol; not drunk. make or become sober after drinking alcohol. It's literally the definition my guy lol.
My brothers in Christ I believe this is what the Bible talks about when it refers to foolish rivalries and talking points. You say that when Jesus was called a drunkard and a glutton that this is an assumption that he drank alcohol. By that reasoning it is merely an assumption that he ate food.
Is having a sandwich the beginning stage of becoming a glutton? What if that's all you had for lunch, you didn't eat 20 more that, I'd say, qualifies as gluttony. Please dont make up arguments.
13:35 Not sure why you couldn't do that. The argument he makes is his opinion. Gluttony is overeating, not just from greed or waste. I see plenty obese Christians just overeating without a care in the world of sinning. Nowhere does it condemn drinking moderately. I'm up for you to correct me, but it always mentions "much" wine if warning off or in a negative light.
@@reeb9016 gluttony is greed and waste thats why its a sin. I think everyone overeats, thats not the issue but im open for correction regarding gluttony. He did address the "bible never condemns moderate drinking" in part 1 pretty well i thought. Basically just bc the bible condemns the extreme of the sin doesnt mean it is justifying sinning moderately. He used different examples from scripture regarding rioting, adultery, and wickedness where the scripture is saying the extreme of these shouldnt be heard among u but that doesn't justify doing these things moderately ofcourse. Also sober means without intoxication and bible commands that, so u cant be moderately intoxicated. Theres other places where the bible condemns drunkenness aswell and not specifically the extreme.
In 1 Corinthians 11:21 Paul is admonishing the church for disrespecting the Lords supper. Paul writes in verse 21 For when it is time to eat, everyone proceeds with his own supper. One is hungry and another becomes drunk. It implies that there was enough alcohol or the type of alcohol that would get you drunk present at the Lords supper. It does not imply that being a drunkard is not sinful but it does show believers drinking alcohol at the Lords supper.
After all the scriptures provided you still ran to one looking for permission as if he missed something...how about your concentration be on "be ye sober?" Here's another, Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. Your goal should be to live as someone who is wise in the sight of God rather than one who desires to find a grey area for their pleasure. This is not hard to see, except by someone who is struggling in this area. They have contact numbers if you need help in this area, please reach out for a personal study and I know they would be glad to extend themselves to you.
@@janicemurphy8175 I come in peace. New wine, old wine, fermented, unfermented …..does this verse not empty there was alcohol at Lords supper? How else could they get drunk when they came together. It sure wasn’t non alcoholic wine.
@@travisprentice5237 the fact that I responded meant that I come in love. Written words are hard to interpret the attitude of the person writing them. The most loving thing we will ever do is to tell the truth even when it hurts. It will always come off as harsh when our toes are being stepped on...happens to me when I'm listening to sermons on areas where I'm struggling in my spiritual walk. Everything I do or say on any post is always from love, otherwise; I'd do more harm trying to be mean than trying to bring something to a better understanding of Christ. Always love here! ❤
@@janicemurphy8175 proverbs 31: 6-7 6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts. 7 Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more. Sounds alcoholic to me.
I left a hefty reply on your other video and I see that there are a lot of people in the comments who are wise to your analysis bias. God bless you man, but I believe your teaching is wildly unbiblical. Again, I urge you to watch Mike Wingers video on alcohol. It sets the record straight with your points about some of your misusage of greek. As well as some of your historical inaccuracies.
@@kac0404by asking that is like saying “I know im wrong about this but your wrong about that” it would be better to use scripture to prove brother wrong then after ask about obeying the Gospel
@TravelwithZeke Nothing to correct. I asked a person what church he was a part of, 5 months ago! Again, the question has nothing to do with you. You're coming in 5 months later, assuming that you know the whole story and you don't, nor is it any of your business. Speaking of such, does the words, "mind your business" mean anything to you?????
I have to agree with many of the posts here. Christians are only human as with everyone else, and reflecting that, Christians don't agree on everything. Just like in politics, we have already have our own beliefs and opinions, and despite many of us are open-minded enough to understand a fuller picture, we crave for information that supports our views. I'm also that way. I've seen a number of Christian UA-cam videos that are designed to give credit to those creating them and discredit to how other Christians approach their faith. And the latter does the same to the former. I'm gradually paying less and less attention to these videos. I'm 60 now, was rooted in Christianity from early childhood, took a more serious and committed approach during my 20s - no stereotypical overnight conversion as some make it sound like; those who've acted above human have shown just how human really are, and it's not always pretty - backslid at times but stayed in course somehow, far from perfect, etc., etc. In my humble opinion, I use a common sense approach. When it comes to alcohol, I agree that the Bible teaches getting drunk is a sin, and drinking in moderation isn’t. I don’t deny some have had profound drinking problems, and even others who haven’t had these problems have had moments of drinking in access as I've had, but the majority who do drink are responsible about it the vast majority of the time. Know when to say when, and keep it safe.
I have studied alcohol so intensely for the past 6 years. I have my own business as a recovery coach that specializes in alcohol recovery plus I am Christ centered in my coaching. I have also studied how wine was made and drank in ancient times. Everything I know scientifically about our alcohol today is not good for our mental, physical, emotional and spiritual wellbeing. Alcohol is a known carcinogen and is toxic to the body, even in low to moderate amounts. Women’s moderate consumption is less than 7 drinks a week and no more than 3 drinks in any given day. Once you pass that you are in excess which the health risks are way higher. The World Health Organization came out last year after years of studies that there are no safe levels of alcohol consumption. Meaning you are at risk even at low levels. Several types of cancer is caused by alcohol and breast cancer is a big one for women because it can raise our estrogen levels which in turn puts us at risk for breast cancer. Alcohol affects men’s hormones as well plus many many other factors. Unless you have A glass of wine a few times a year, then I don’t think that will have much effects but consistent drinking week after week will put you at risk for so many different things that most people are unaware that alcohol is even contributing to.
That is some of the most illogical drivel that I have heard in a long time. No, you don't get a little bit drunk by drinking a little wine. Also, pressed grape juice begins to ferment within minutes, without outside forces that were unknown at the time. You are cramming your presuppositions into the text, that just aren't there.
I detest alcohol, however, scripture is pretty clear that the wine consumed in Jesus time was fermented wine. New wine in old wineskins! Hello! It's wrong to drink in excess. If it was just grape juice then why all the warnings to not drink to get drunk. At any rate Jesus is Lord God Almighty clothed in unsinful humanity and He is the author of (eternal life) to all who trust Him alone for salvation. This means that saving repentance is realizing that you are a sinner deserving of God's just punishment in Hell and turn (repent) from whatever you trusted in before, if indeed you trusted in anything; to trusting in the person and finished work of Christ (((alone))) for salvation.
The best thing you said in this statement, "repent!" Changing your mind (turn from, and to God)...practicing what will begin to soften your judgment is not wise, therefore; be ye sober. Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. Most will not deal with the command to be sober but will argue until the breath is out of their lungs on being drunk...here's a question they can never answer: When is someone drunk, and who determines that? We are a people who cannot be trusted with free will, even to the point that God before the creation of the world decided to come and save us from our abuse of "free will" before we could ever abuse it, and these are the same people that gets to determine when they are drunk? Let's be honest, a little bit of sin is still sin. Paul in Ephesians 5:18 is dealing with living a spirit filled life, it's impossible for me to believe that practicing something that is usually associated with most crimes committed in this world is something that we could practice and still be living a spirit filled life.
Any interpretation that contradicts the 12 times we are told to be sober in the New Testament is obviously not correct. Six occurrences use the Greek word "nepho" which specifically means to abstain from alcohol/intoxicating/poisoning. Problems in interpretation arise from not knowing the Greek. For example, contrary to common usage today, "wine" also referred to grape juice.
Sadly, this video is a PERFECT illustration of someone (or some group) who believes drinking even a small amount of alcohol is sinful, and they then use every form of Scripture-twisting to allegedly "prove" their argument. I'd be very wealthy if I had a dollar every time I heard the argument that "wine" can also refer simply to "grape juice" (a non-alcoholic beverage). OK, but the Apostle Paul clearly taught us not to be "drunk with wine" but to be "filled with the Holy Spirit" (Ephesians 5:18), so obviously "wine" can, and most-often does, refer to an alcoholic beverage, otherwise people couldn't get drunk by consuming it. Also, videos such as this one conveniently ignore passages like Deuteronomy 14 where God tells BELIEVERS to enjoy "wine" and "strong drink" (it's pretty hard to get around the fact that these are references to alcoholic beverages, which is why videos such as this one ignore those passages). Here's the bottom line. If you don't want to drink alcoholic beverages, then don't drink them, and Christians should obviously obey the command to NOT cause a weaker brother to stumble by "flaunting" their freedom in Christ to drink. But God has made alcohol available for us to enjoy in moderation. If you want to have a glass of wine or a beer with your dinner, go ahead. Bottoms-up!
Any interpretation that contradicts the 12 times we are told to be sober in the New Testament is obviously not correct. Six occurrences use the Greek word "nepho" which specifically means to abstain from alcohol/intoxicating/poisoning. Problems in interpretation arise from not knowing the Greek. For example, contrary to common usage today, "wine" also referred to grape juice.
@@joemonroe9456 Did you notice your straw-man argument? NO ONE is denying that the Bible teaches us to be sober, but it does NOT follow that having a drink makes one drunk. This is why it's so frustrating to have a conversation with someone who thinks the Bible teaches complete abstinence. Believers are told to enjoy "wine" and "strong drink" in Deuteronomy 14. Does that mean God is encouraging drunkenness? Of course not! Be faithful to what the Bible actually teaches, and NOT to what some church tradition is telling you to believe.
@@johnclaiborne2749 Straw man an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument. How did I misrepresent your position. I merely showed that your central point is false by pointing out that we are told to abstain. In the Greek, drunkenness is not a specific point in time, it is a process of intoxication. In other words, don't do the process of poisoning yourself. This is shown by the present tense in Greek. As far as tradition goes, tradition of many churches is to drink alcohol in opposition to God's word which tells us to "be sober" (nepho:abstain). As far as Deut. 14 goes 1. It doesn't say to drink the alcoholic wine. 2. The alcoholic wine was poured out as a drink offering as opposed to the heathen who drank it. 7And the drink offering thereof [shall be] the fourth [part] of an hin for the one lamb: in the holy [place] shalt thou cause the strong wine to be poured unto the LORD [for] a drink offering. Deut. 28:7 32For their vine [is] of the vine of Sodom, and of the fields of Gomorrah: their grapes [are] grapes of gall, their clusters [are] bitter: 33Their wine [is] the poison of dragons, and the cruel venom of asps. 34[Is] not this laid up in store with me, [and] sealed up among my treasures? Deut. 32 21Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils 1 Cor 10
@@joemonroe9456 Your statement, “I merely showed that your central point is false by pointing out that we are told to abstain”, is FALSE! The Bible does NOT teach us to “abstain” from alcohol - it warns against drunkenness. Secondly, having a glass of wine or beer does NOT equate to being drunk. In fact, our own laws recognize the fact that people CAN have a drink and still be perfectly capable of getting behind the wheel of a vehicle. Again, you seem to think that even a drop of alcohol makes one drunk. I recently heard a preacher teaching that same nonsense. He was (wrongly) teaching that just one drop of alcohol makes someone one one-thousandth percent drunk, which is ridiculous. Finally, stop twisting Deuteronomy 14 and read the text. God tells believers that they can “spend the money for whatever your heart desires: for oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink or whatever your heart desires”. They DRANK those beverages. They enjoyed them according to, as God declares, their God-given, "heart desires". Many Bible commentaries agree that this is a clear indication (to anyone who looks at these verses objectively) that the use of strong drink is NOT sinful in itself.
@@johnclaiborne2749 Original Word: μεθύσκω Part of Speech: Verb Transliteration: methuskó Phonetic Spelling: (meth-oos'-ko) Definition: to make drunk Usage: I make drunk; pass: I become drunk. The process verb "methusko" is used. There is no exact point of being drunk, only stages of poisoning which is why we are told to not do the process of intoxicating (methusko) and to "nepho" (abstain). Deut. 14 uses the Hebrew word for grape juice (tirosh) Verse 23 uses the Hebrew word "tirosh" which is a specific word for grape juice. Using the Bible as it's own dictionary, we see "tirosh" is the grape juice coming out of the wine press. and thy presses shall burst out with new wine. Proverbs 3:10 Same Hebrew word is used. There 38 occurences of "tirosh" in the Old Testament 12All the best of the oil, and all the best of the wine (tirosh), and of the wheat, the firstfruits of them which they shall offer unto the LORD, them have I given thee. 13[And] whatsoever is first ripe in the land, which they shall bring unto the LORD, shall be thine; every one that is clean in thine house shall eat [of] it Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine(tirosh) is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all.
I think that sometimes it's a bit easier then we really see. It seems we try so hard as the church to find an absolute way to convince others and maybe ourselves of something when maybe we just need to have a little more faith. Example, 100 percent of the people who started drinking did not start to become alcoholic. In my way of thinking I would say that sums it up right there. Just think of all the sins that would never have been committed if their was no alcoholic beverages.
So according to your logic, people who've become overweight or even obese (resulting in all kinds of medical problems) should never have started eating ice cream, cakes, cookies, potato chips, etc. in the first place. While that certainly might be true, it completely misses the point that God allows plenty of things in moderation, including alcohol consumption. The bottom line is that we need to follow the Bible's principle that, "all things are permitted, but not all things are of benefit" (1 Corinthians 10:23). That means letting people decide for themselves if they want to consume alcohol or start eating junk food. To try and twist every biblical verse into saying that Christians can't even have a drop of alcohol is actually sinful because it's distorting the Word of God.
@@johnclaiborne2749 Watch the video again. Starting from 13:40, the parallel drawn between gluttony and drunkeness is clearly dismantled. Among the plenty of things that God allows "in moderation", sinning is not among them in any slight traces, and you shall do good to repent of them once you become aware of what you're doing is wrong. Taking the passage you mentioned (1 Corinthians 10:23) in context, Paul mentions the saying from the day to demonstrate that the freedom that Christ has bought you should be used to honor Him instead of committing actions to fulfill your physical lusts. Yes, this implies that you have the freedom to make your choices, but it also means that you are responsible for the actions that you perform. Is it well suited for you to unite your body to that of a prositute? Paul vehemently rejected it, because he wanted to honor God. This video (and its prequel) specifically tries to argue that drinking intoxicating beverages, along with the use of intoxicating recreational drugs, is a sin that impairs judgment and should not be done for recreational reasons. In light of this fact, your choice as to whether to continue or abstain from sin will impact your discipleship to Christ. If you wish to justify drinking alcohol, state your argument on the relevant passages and where the content creator has erred. God bless you.
Labotomy This video is all conjecture assumptions and opinions. Twisting scripture and definitions. His stupid argument about growing old. Well an infant is not old. A 20 year old is not old. If you just drink your not drunk intoxicated impaired. If you drink to much you will be come impaired. If you eat to much you get fat. If you sleep you lose your relationships and get poor if you smoke to much you may get cancer. If you drive to fast you may crash. If you work too much you can ruin your health and neglect your family. If you excercise to much you can break down your muscles and joints. Bottom line all man made logic and biased arguments can be countered. And most importantly. There is NO command against drinking alcoholic and it only matters what God commands and does not.
I disagree with this video about how they try to get around the greek word methyskō and its root word methyō . This word is used in seven other times in the New Testament Mat 24:49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken Luke 12:45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; Acts 2:15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. 1 Corth 11:21 For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. Eph 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; 1 Thess 5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. Rev 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk G3184 with the wine of her fornication. Rev 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. Now tell me again that methyskō doesn't mean intoxicated? Just because you don't like what it means doesn't mean you can change the usage or definition.
Deuteronomy 14:25-26 “then you shall turn it into money and bind up the money in your hand and go to the place that the Lord your God chooses and spend the money for whatever you desire-oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And you shall eat there before the Lord your God and rejoice, you and your household.” Deuteronomy 14:25-26 ESV
Good point. It doesn't say anything about drinking alcoholic wine, only eating. And today we are commanded to be sober (nepho: abstain from poisoning ourselves).
@@jfra7107 "yayin" was not always alcoholic just like "oinois" (Greek) was not always alcoholic. Context is important. And the overriding context is that we are to "be sober". The Greek word is "nepho" which means unintoxicated, abstain.
Matthew 11:19 KJVS The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.
1. "oinos" is a generic term for juice of the grape; there are more specific words for alcoholic wine. In the Greek and Hebrew there are multiple words for wine with some being juice of the grape and others being alcoholic. 2. John the Baptist was a nazarite which means no product of the grape. 3. Jesus was drinking grape juice, so the Pharisees absurdly accused him of being a winebibber (drinker of alcoholic wine). Jesus was pointing out that the Pharisees were false accusers no matter what you were doing. 4. Jesus could not drink alcoholic wine because He would have been breaking the scriptures. 4It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink: prov. 32 "you cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of devils" 1 Cor. "it is the cruel venom of asps" Jacob drank "the pure blood of the grape" Deut. 32
@joemonroe9456 1. Proverb 32, you mean. If you read verse 1 it was a prophecy his mother taught him. It was not a commandment from God. 2. Wine was used for medicine,for celebration, and just for the heart to be merry. 3. Its a conscience topic if you think its bad than thats your choice but wine was a blessing but people abuse it read romans 14 when you get a chance. 🙏🏽
@@sekopekolo1081 Any interpretation that contradicts the 12 times we are told to be sober in the New Testament is obviously not correct. Six occurrences use the Greek word "nepho" which specifically means to abstain from alcohol/intoxicating/poisoning. Problems in interpretation arise from not knowing the Greek. For example, contrary to common usage today, "wine" also referred to grape juice.
@joemonroe9456 i understand where your coming but when we read specific verses i the bible. It explains what wine does. Can you explain to me this verse? Proverbs 20:1 KJVS Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.
The Bible says "Don't get drunk." That's what it says. Literally every other argument I've head that says, "Christians shouldn't drink" is a mixture of man-made doctrine, poorly researched history, logical fallacy, torturing the text to make it say something it doesn't, and people who've had problems with alcohol in the past (themselves or someone they care about) that are trying to impose tee-totaling on everyone else.
If you’re drinking, stop drinking!
You can’t get drunk until you start drinking. And the first drink you take, you’re no longer sober.
Whatever degree it might be, you’re not with the same mind that you used to have.
YOU CAN’T GET DRUNK UNTIL YOU TAKE THE FIRST ONE!
People say drinking is ok but being drunk is not.
They overlook that drinking gets you drunk. Its one of the most simple concepts. It baffles me how people don't get this
You're really stretching there. Your argument is like saying "Having an ice-cream cone can lead to gluttony, which leads to obesity, which leads to heart disease, and we should never enjoy an ice cream cone.
you can't drink and not get drunk unless you have a medical problem.
bad analogy
That's the most absurd argument I've ever read.
drinking doesn't get you drunk?
It depends on a number of factors: How much you drink, your weight, how much food is in your stomach, your individual tolerance to alcohol, how fatigued you are at the moment, and possibly several other factors.
There is no doubt in my heart that drunkenness at any level and to any extent is described as sinful in Yahweh's word. Alcoholism and drunkenness involve addiction. Nevertheless, there is a problem with some of the points from the Greek in this video. An example is this: to say that the aorist indicates "a 'point' in time." Please rethink the point. The aorist actually indicates an "unlimited or undefined" condition. The best manner to determine what Greek (also Hebrew and Aramaic) means is to read ancient literature and see how they are used lexically and linguistically. We as members of the body of Christ must be certain that we speak from the facts, and not from traditional positions.
Any interpretation that contradicts the 12 times we are told to be sober in the New Testament is obviously not correct. Six occurrences use the Greek word "nepho" which specifically means to abstain from alcohol/intoxicating/poisoning.
Problems in interpretation arise from not knowing the Greek. For example, contrary to common usage today, "wine" also referred to grape juice.
@@joemonroe9456 a couple of questions will enable us to see what God's word is saying. (1) 1 Timothy 3:8 Paul says deacons must "not indulging in too much wine" ( the Greek phrase is...ME OINO POLLO PROSECHONTAS). Does this mean a deacon is not to indulge in too much grape juice? (2) Paul says in 1 Timothy 3:3 and Titus 1:7 that an overseer must "not be addicted to wine..." (the Greek phrase is ...ME PAROINON). Does this mean an overseer is not to be addicted to grape juice?
My brothers in the video, you have done a good job of creating arguments over words- too many fastidious arguments to justify an EXTRA-BIBLICAL conjecture, namely, that the call for being sober is NECESSARILY a call for not tasting an alcoholic drink.
To successfully elevate this opinion to the level of an authorititive divine command as you press to, you will forever need to first enroll the whole world in a Greek Language course and reedit the mainstream versions of the scriptures which easily show through all the reference passages on drinking, absolutely NOTHING is written as "do not taste any amount of alcohol for tasting any amount alcohol is drunkenness".
This is the opinion you are trying hard advance as divine command here. It's is false.
//...that the call for being sober is NECESSARILY a call for not tasting an alcoholic drink. //
Sober: not affected by alcohol; not drunk.
make or become sober after drinking alcohol.
It's literally the definition my guy lol.
My brothers in Christ I believe this is what the Bible talks about when it refers to foolish rivalries and talking points. You say that when Jesus was called a drunkard and a glutton that this is an assumption that he drank alcohol. By that reasoning it is merely an assumption that he ate food.
Is having a sandwich the beginning stage of becoming a glutton? What if that's all you had for lunch, you didn't eat 20 more that, I'd say, qualifies as gluttony. Please dont make up arguments.
? He addressed this
@@thegollyer903 time stamp please.
@@reeb9016 i aint doing that lol. U can use the seek function to see the character with the chicken wing is where he addressed this analogy.
13:35 Not sure why you couldn't do that. The argument he makes is his opinion. Gluttony is overeating, not just from greed or waste. I see plenty obese Christians just overeating without a care in the world of sinning.
Nowhere does it condemn drinking moderately. I'm up for you to correct me, but it always mentions "much" wine if warning off or in a negative light.
@@reeb9016 gluttony is greed and waste thats why its a sin. I think everyone overeats, thats not the issue but im open for correction regarding gluttony.
He did address the "bible never condemns moderate drinking" in part 1 pretty well i thought. Basically just bc the bible condemns the extreme of the sin doesnt mean it is justifying sinning moderately. He used different examples from scripture regarding rioting, adultery, and wickedness where the scripture is saying the extreme of these shouldnt be heard among u but that doesn't justify doing these things moderately ofcourse. Also sober means without intoxication and bible commands that, so u cant be moderately intoxicated. Theres other places where the bible condemns drunkenness aswell and not specifically the extreme.
In 1 Corinthians 11:21 Paul is admonishing the church for disrespecting the Lords supper. Paul writes in verse 21 For when it is time to eat, everyone proceeds with his own supper. One is hungry and another becomes drunk. It implies that there was enough alcohol or the type of alcohol that would get you drunk present at the Lords supper. It does not imply that being a drunkard is not sinful but it does show believers drinking alcohol at the Lords supper.
After all the scriptures provided you still ran to one looking for permission as if he missed something...how about your concentration be on "be ye sober?" Here's another, Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. Your goal should be to live as someone who is wise in the sight of God rather than one who desires to find a grey area for their pleasure. This is not hard to see, except by someone who is struggling in this area. They have contact numbers if you need help in this area, please reach out for a personal study and I know they would be glad to extend themselves to you.
@@janicemurphy8175 I come in peace. New wine, old wine, fermented, unfermented …..does this verse not empty there was alcohol at Lords supper? How else could they get drunk when they came together. It sure wasn’t non alcoholic wine.
@@janicemurphy8175 Sister Janice don’t be so mean in your response. Show love ❤️
@@travisprentice5237 the fact that I responded meant that I come in love. Written words are hard to interpret the attitude of the person writing them. The most loving thing we will ever do is to tell the truth even when it hurts. It will always come off as harsh when our toes are being stepped on...happens to me when I'm listening to sermons on areas where I'm struggling in my spiritual walk. Everything I do or say on any post is always from love, otherwise; I'd do more harm trying to be mean than trying to bring something to a better understanding of Christ. Always love here! ❤
@@janicemurphy8175 proverbs 31: 6-7
6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.
7 Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.
Sounds alcoholic to me.
I left a hefty reply on your other video and I see that there are a lot of people in the comments who are wise to your analysis bias. God bless you man, but I believe your teaching is wildly unbiblical. Again, I urge you to watch Mike Wingers video on alcohol. It sets the record straight with your points about some of your misusage of greek. As well as some of your historical inaccuracies.
BTW, what church are you a part of?
@@kac0404by asking that is like saying “I know im wrong about this but your wrong about that” it would be better to use scripture to prove brother wrong then after ask about obeying the Gospel
@TravelwithZeke By asking this means I wasn't talking to you.
@@kac0404 and the guy you asked wasn’t talking to you, it’s the same thing. don’t be to prideful to stand correction brother
@TravelwithZeke Nothing to correct. I asked a person what church he was a part of, 5 months ago! Again, the question has nothing to do with you. You're coming in 5 months later, assuming that you know the whole story and you don't, nor is it any of your business. Speaking of such, does the words, "mind your business" mean anything to you?????
I have to agree with many of the posts here. Christians are only human as with everyone else, and reflecting that, Christians don't agree on everything. Just like in politics, we have already have our own beliefs and opinions, and despite many of us are open-minded enough to understand a fuller picture, we crave for information that supports our views. I'm also that way. I've seen a number of Christian UA-cam videos that are designed to give credit to those creating them and discredit to how other Christians approach their faith. And the latter does the same to the former. I'm gradually paying less and less attention to these videos.
I'm 60 now, was rooted in Christianity from early childhood, took a more serious and committed approach during my 20s - no stereotypical overnight conversion as some make it sound like; those who've acted above human have shown just how human really are, and it's not always pretty - backslid at times but stayed in course somehow, far from perfect, etc., etc. In my humble opinion, I use a common sense approach.
When it comes to alcohol, I agree that the Bible teaches getting drunk is a sin, and drinking in moderation isn’t. I don’t deny some have had profound drinking problems, and even others who haven’t had these problems have had moments of drinking in access as I've had, but the majority who do drink are responsible about it the vast majority of the time. Know when to say when, and keep it safe.
I have studied alcohol so intensely for the past 6 years. I have my own business as a recovery coach that specializes in alcohol recovery plus I am Christ centered in my coaching. I have also studied how wine was made and drank in ancient times. Everything I know scientifically about our alcohol today is not good for our mental, physical, emotional and spiritual wellbeing. Alcohol is a known carcinogen and is toxic to the body, even in low to moderate amounts. Women’s moderate consumption is less than 7 drinks a week and no more than 3 drinks in any given day. Once you pass that you are in excess which the health risks are way higher. The World Health Organization came out last year after years of studies that there are no safe levels of alcohol consumption. Meaning you are at risk even at low levels. Several types of cancer is caused by alcohol and breast cancer is a big one for women because it can raise our estrogen levels which in turn puts us at risk for breast cancer. Alcohol affects men’s hormones as well plus many many other factors. Unless you have A glass of wine a few times a year, then I don’t think that will have much effects but consistent drinking week after week will put you at risk for so many different things that most people are unaware that alcohol is even contributing to.
That is some of the most illogical drivel that I have heard in a long time. No, you don't get a little bit drunk by drinking a little wine. Also, pressed grape juice begins to ferment within minutes, without outside forces that were unknown at the time. You are cramming your presuppositions into the text, that just aren't there.
I detest alcohol, however, scripture is pretty clear that the wine consumed in Jesus time was fermented wine.
New wine in old wineskins! Hello!
It's wrong to drink in excess.
If it was just grape juice then why all the warnings to not drink to get drunk.
At any rate Jesus is Lord God Almighty clothed in unsinful humanity and He is the author of (eternal life) to all who trust Him alone for salvation.
This means that saving repentance is realizing that you are a sinner deserving of God's just punishment in Hell and turn (repent) from whatever you trusted in before, if indeed you trusted in anything; to trusting in the person and finished work of Christ (((alone))) for salvation.
The best thing you said in this statement, "repent!" Changing your mind (turn from, and to God)...practicing what will begin to soften your judgment is not wise, therefore; be ye sober. Proverbs 20:1
Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. Most will not deal with the command to be sober but will argue until the breath is out of their lungs on being drunk...here's a question they can never answer: When is someone drunk, and who determines that? We are a people who cannot be trusted with free will, even to the point that God before the creation of the world decided to come and save us from our abuse of "free will" before we could ever abuse it, and these are the same people that gets to determine when they are drunk? Let's be honest, a little bit of sin is still sin. Paul in Ephesians 5:18 is dealing with living a spirit filled life, it's impossible for me to believe that practicing something that is usually associated with most crimes committed in this world is something that we could practice and still be living a spirit filled life.
Any interpretation that contradicts the 12 times we are told to be sober in the New Testament is obviously not correct. Six occurrences use the Greek word "nepho" which specifically means to abstain from alcohol/intoxicating/poisoning.
Problems in interpretation arise from not knowing the Greek. For example, contrary to common usage today, "wine" also referred to grape juice.
Sadly, this video is a PERFECT illustration of someone (or some group) who believes drinking even a small amount of alcohol is sinful, and they then use every form of Scripture-twisting to allegedly "prove" their argument. I'd be very wealthy if I had a dollar every time I heard the argument that "wine" can also refer simply to "grape juice" (a non-alcoholic beverage). OK, but the Apostle Paul clearly taught us not to be "drunk with wine" but to be "filled with the Holy Spirit" (Ephesians 5:18), so obviously "wine" can, and most-often does, refer to an alcoholic beverage, otherwise people couldn't get drunk by consuming it. Also, videos such as this one conveniently ignore passages like Deuteronomy 14 where God tells BELIEVERS to enjoy "wine" and "strong drink" (it's pretty hard to get around the fact that these are references to alcoholic beverages, which is why videos such as this one ignore those passages).
Here's the bottom line. If you don't want to drink alcoholic beverages, then don't drink them, and Christians should obviously obey the command to NOT cause a weaker brother to stumble by "flaunting" their freedom in Christ to drink. But God has made alcohol available for us to enjoy in moderation. If you want to have a glass of wine or a beer with your dinner, go ahead. Bottoms-up!
Any interpretation that contradicts the 12 times we are told to be sober in the New Testament is obviously not correct. Six occurrences use the Greek word "nepho" which specifically means to abstain from alcohol/intoxicating/poisoning.
Problems in interpretation arise from not knowing the Greek. For example, contrary to common usage today, "wine" also referred to grape juice.
@@joemonroe9456 Did you notice your straw-man argument? NO ONE is denying that the Bible teaches us to be sober, but it does NOT follow that having a drink makes one drunk. This is why it's so frustrating to have a conversation with someone who thinks the Bible teaches complete abstinence. Believers are told to enjoy "wine" and "strong drink" in Deuteronomy 14. Does that mean God is encouraging drunkenness? Of course not! Be faithful to what the Bible actually teaches, and NOT to what some church tradition is telling you to believe.
@@johnclaiborne2749
Straw man
an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.
How did I misrepresent your position.
I merely showed that your central point is false by pointing out that we are told to abstain.
In the Greek, drunkenness is not a specific point in time, it is a process of intoxication.
In other words, don't do the process of poisoning yourself. This is shown by the present tense in Greek.
As far as tradition goes, tradition of many churches is to drink alcohol in opposition to God's word which tells us to "be sober" (nepho:abstain).
As far as Deut. 14 goes
1. It doesn't say to drink the alcoholic wine.
2. The alcoholic wine was poured out as a drink offering as opposed to the heathen who drank it.
7And the drink offering thereof [shall be] the fourth [part] of an hin for the one lamb: in the holy [place] shalt thou cause the strong wine to be poured unto the LORD [for] a drink offering. Deut. 28:7
32For their vine [is] of the vine of Sodom, and of the fields of Gomorrah: their grapes [are] grapes of gall, their clusters [are] bitter:
33Their wine [is] the poison of dragons, and the cruel venom of asps.
34[Is] not this laid up in store with me, [and] sealed up among my treasures? Deut. 32
21Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils
1 Cor 10
@@joemonroe9456 Your statement, “I merely showed that your central point is false by pointing out that we are told to abstain”, is FALSE! The Bible does NOT teach us to “abstain” from alcohol - it warns against drunkenness.
Secondly, having a glass of wine or beer does NOT equate to being drunk. In fact, our own laws recognize the fact that people CAN have a drink and still be perfectly capable of getting behind the wheel of a vehicle. Again, you seem to think that even a drop of alcohol makes one drunk. I recently heard a preacher teaching that same nonsense. He was (wrongly) teaching that just one drop of alcohol makes someone one one-thousandth percent drunk, which is ridiculous.
Finally, stop twisting Deuteronomy 14 and read the text. God tells believers that they can “spend the money for whatever your heart desires: for oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink or whatever your heart desires”. They DRANK those beverages. They enjoyed them according to, as God declares, their God-given, "heart desires". Many Bible commentaries agree that this is a clear indication (to anyone who looks at these verses objectively) that the use of strong drink is NOT sinful in itself.
@@johnclaiborne2749
Original Word: μεθύσκω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: methuskó
Phonetic Spelling: (meth-oos'-ko)
Definition: to make drunk
Usage: I make drunk; pass: I become drunk.
The process verb "methusko" is used.
There is no exact point of being drunk, only stages of poisoning which is why we are told to not do the process of intoxicating (methusko) and to "nepho" (abstain).
Deut. 14 uses the Hebrew word for grape juice (tirosh)
Verse 23 uses the Hebrew word "tirosh" which is a specific word for grape juice. Using the Bible as it's own dictionary, we see "tirosh" is the grape juice coming out of the wine press.
and thy presses shall burst out with new wine. Proverbs 3:10
Same Hebrew word is used.
There 38 occurences of "tirosh" in the Old
Testament
12All the best of the oil, and all the best of the wine (tirosh), and of the wheat, the firstfruits of them which they shall offer unto the LORD, them have I given thee. 13[And] whatsoever is first ripe in the land, which they shall bring unto the LORD, shall be thine; every one that is clean in thine house shall eat [of] it
Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine(tirosh) is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all.
I think that sometimes it's a bit easier then we really see. It seems we try so hard as the church to find an absolute way to convince others and maybe ourselves of something when maybe we just need to have a little more faith. Example, 100 percent of the people who started drinking did not start to become alcoholic. In my way of thinking I would say that sums it up right there. Just think of all the sins that would never have been committed if their was no alcoholic beverages.
So according to your logic, people who've become overweight or even obese (resulting in all kinds of medical problems) should never have started eating ice cream, cakes, cookies, potato chips, etc. in the first place. While that certainly might be true, it completely misses the point that God allows plenty of things in moderation, including alcohol consumption. The bottom line is that we need to follow the Bible's principle that, "all things are permitted, but not all things are of benefit" (1 Corinthians 10:23). That means letting people decide for themselves if they want to consume alcohol or start eating junk food. To try and twist every biblical verse into saying that Christians can't even have a drop of alcohol is actually sinful because it's distorting the Word of God.
@@johnclaiborne2749 Watch the video again. Starting from 13:40, the parallel drawn between gluttony and drunkeness is clearly dismantled. Among the plenty of things that God allows "in moderation", sinning is not among them in any slight traces, and you shall do good to repent of them once you become aware of what you're doing is wrong. Taking the passage you mentioned (1 Corinthians 10:23) in context, Paul mentions the saying from the day to demonstrate that the freedom that Christ has bought you should be used to honor Him instead of committing actions to fulfill your physical lusts. Yes, this implies that you have the freedom to make your choices, but it also means that you are responsible for the actions that you perform. Is it well suited for you to unite your body to that of a prositute? Paul vehemently rejected it, because he wanted to honor God.
This video (and its prequel) specifically tries to argue that drinking intoxicating beverages, along with the use of intoxicating recreational drugs, is a sin that impairs judgment and should not be done for recreational reasons. In light of this fact, your choice as to whether to continue or abstain from sin will impact your discipleship to Christ. If you wish to justify drinking alcohol, state your argument on the relevant passages and where the content creator has erred.
God bless you.
Labotomy
This video is all conjecture assumptions and opinions. Twisting scripture and definitions. His stupid argument about growing old. Well an infant is not old. A 20 year old is not old.
If you just drink your not drunk intoxicated impaired. If you drink to much you will be come impaired. If you eat to much you get fat. If you sleep you lose your relationships and get poor if you smoke to much you may get cancer. If you drive to fast you may crash. If you work too much you can ruin your health and neglect your family. If you excercise to much you can break down your muscles and joints.
Bottom line all man made logic and biased arguments can be countered.
And most importantly. There is NO command against drinking alcoholic and it only matters what God commands and does not.
I disagree with this video about how they try to get around the greek word methyskō and its root word methyō . This word is used in seven other times in the New Testament
Mat 24:49
And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken
Luke 12:45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
Acts 2:15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
1 Corth 11:21 For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken.
Eph 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
1 Thess 5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
Rev 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk G3184 with the wine of her fornication.
Rev 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
Now tell me again that methyskō doesn't mean intoxicated?
Just because you don't like what it means doesn't mean you can change the usage or definition.
Deuteronomy 14:25-26 “then you shall turn it into money and bind up the money in your hand and go to the place that the Lord your God chooses and spend the money for whatever you desire-oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And you shall eat there before the Lord your God and rejoice, you and your household.”
Deuteronomy 14:25-26 ESV
Good point. It doesn't say anything about drinking alcoholic wine, only eating. And today we are commanded to be sober (nepho: abstain from poisoning ourselves).
@@joemonroe9456 what do you believe would have been the purpose of buying the wine or strong drink?
@@jfra7107 The drink offering was poured out.
@@jfra7107 "yayin" was not always alcoholic just like "oinois" (Greek) was not always alcoholic. Context is important.
And the overriding context is that we are to "be sober". The Greek word is "nepho" which means unintoxicated, abstain.
A common lie is that they didn't know how to preserve grape juice.
Matthew 11:19 KJVS
The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.
1. "oinos" is a generic term for juice of the grape; there are more specific words for alcoholic wine. In the Greek and Hebrew there are multiple words for wine with some being juice of the grape and others being alcoholic.
2. John the Baptist was a nazarite which means no product of the grape.
3. Jesus was drinking grape juice, so the Pharisees absurdly accused him of being a winebibber (drinker of alcoholic wine).
Jesus was pointing out that the Pharisees were false accusers no matter what you were doing.
4. Jesus could not drink alcoholic wine because He would have been breaking the scriptures.
4It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink: prov. 32
"you cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of devils" 1 Cor.
"it is the cruel venom of asps"
Jacob drank "the pure blood of the grape" Deut. 32
@joemonroe9456 1. Proverb 32, you mean. If you read verse 1 it was a prophecy his mother taught him. It was not a commandment from God.
2. Wine was used for medicine,for celebration, and just for the heart to be merry.
3. Its a conscience topic if you think its bad than thats your choice but wine was a blessing but people abuse it read romans 14 when you get a chance. 🙏🏽
@@sekopekolo1081 Any interpretation that contradicts the 12 times we are told to be sober in the New Testament is obviously not correct. Six occurrences use the Greek word "nepho" which specifically means to abstain from alcohol/intoxicating/poisoning.
Problems in interpretation arise from not knowing the Greek. For example, contrary to common usage today, "wine" also referred to grape juice.
@joemonroe9456 i understand where your coming but when we read specific verses i the bible. It explains what wine does. Can you explain to me this verse?
Proverbs 20:1 KJVS
Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.
I didnt know wine is a mocker.
I dunno bout the Bible but my radio sings God is great and Beer is good. So it must be true.