I play on a team with quite a few aboriginal kids and I'd say they'd cop some sort of abuse in 1 of every 5 games we play. We play under 17s and I agree that meaningful change around this will take a lot of time. I feel that the AFL is going 100% the right way about it. The kids of my generation need to learn that this stuff is wrong and that there will be punishment. Anyway, just my two cents, love your content man.
Good on you for talking about this Jesse. We need more people like you to talk about it and call it out. It’s good that the AFL is drawing this line, I’m hopeful that this won’t take as long, hopefully players take note and we don’t see any more of this language and the lengthy bans from them.
I grew up in a time where the f-word was accepted as a lesser swear word and was common among general banter and actual verbals. I don't have a time that it stopped it just left my vernacular over time along with a few other words. Truth is this is the only way to get it out of footy. Like it or not there are no openly gay players in the comp. Be that they are closeted because it's too hostile, because gay kids leave the sport due to hostility before AFL level or a mix of all I don't know but statistically there are some out there. I do wish it was more consistent in the punishment but punished they should be. The AFL as an employer can set the standard that they see fit and set the ban where they see fit. Also the next Gary Ablett Jr or Buddy Franklin may not play because they're weeded out at grassroots level and that's a loss to all of footy. I'm all for footy being more inclusive because it means we don't miss out on watching the next big thing if he happens to be gay
Well said dude. Just as a player 'in the heat of the moment' will get punished for punching someone, the same has to happen for homophobic and racist slurs. There's no place for it in the game, and the stance that the league is taking will hopefully stamp it out for good.
If the recipient of the slur responded with, “yeah, so what.”, then the one dishing it out looks stupid. I worked with a guy that was upfront that he was gay, he was very good at his job and his sexuality became irrelevant. Things won’t change over night, but they will change.
Here in America the word was commonly used as a general insult even all through high school, at least where I lived. Among friends groups it was basically a term of endearment. Even the openly gay guys used it, which shows how little people considered the actual meaning. The South Park episode conveys pretty well how it was used.
@@milkwalkerjones633 Yeah, man, but those are kids amongst groups of friends. It's not the employees of a premier sporting club, representing their club, on a national stage. There's never been an opening gay AFL player; events like this and using slurs like that just go to show how there likely won't be one for a long while. There's been plenty of gay players, but none openly. Also, a group of high school boys, gay or not, aren't exactly a litmus test for appropriate forms of communication.
Mate, so refreshing to hear a nuanced perspective on the issue. The context matters, but absolutely not an excuse. I think the most damning thing for me, is that we haven't seen someone willing to come out at the AFL level yet and it's comments like Clarkson's, Finalyson's and Powell's that continue to reinforce the notion that being born gay is somehow bad. Like you said, statistically speaking it is highly unlikely that the AFL hasn't seen a gay player, and there is absolutely no place for homophobia in the same way that there is no place for racism.
I'm just glad the AFL is FINALLY taking some action to stamp out homophobia. I dont think the punishments are over-the-top or whatever because what it's doing is sending a very clear message to everyone that the AFL needs to be a safe space for queer people, and in doshing out the multi-week bans I feel that to a degree is also recognising the much much wider context of the issue of homophobia as compared to like a dangerous tackle etc
You're confusing terms. In some cultures its a regular term used. Others it isn't. You look at indigenous culture even and what they consider normal and appropriate is quite different. Its not a term that I use, but then again I don't swear. The fact is that many swear words are offensive to people and people including females feel threatened and intimidated. You need to look at the behaviour.
@@BDub2024 the general culture and public perception of the word has moved to stamp it out, as well as homophobia in general. just because its part of a culture doesnt mean its necesarily ok
@@papleylivesrentfreeinurhead its not going to get stamped out. fact is that people call themselves the word increasingly. A bit like italians call themselves wogs, and african americans another word... The thing is that I think the use of the word in the school yard is more than ever now. Anything weak is now described in that term, though it was uncommon in Australia 40 years ago. So I am a bit surprised that you think its being stamped out. My view on the footy field is stop petty mouthing off between players. Players association need to step up there. Also players need to stop bumping guys off the ball when they miss a shot at goal. A lot of the problems with punches behind play, jumper punches and insults and taunts could be removed.
@@papleylivesrentfreeinurhead I think there are a lot of inappropriate comments made. But some are tolerated and others aren't. I'd say neither should be made and the game needs to remove silly mouthing off and petty name calling by players that goes on. That would remove the problem. Often players are responding to something that they've been told that they take offence of, but get sucked into responding inappropriately. So lets all be grown men and stop name calling all round.
Brilliant video Jesse.. I agree with everything you’ve said, and it shouldn’t be understated how important it is that you’ve posted this. Thank you for taking a stance and sharing your thoughts 💪
If this was a De Goey or a Bontempelli (not saying they ever would) pick any star player - would the AFL have the integrity to uphold a 5 Game ban? Would they do it in a Finals campaign? I'm not so sure Jesse, the AFL are good talkers but legitimately i know they do not care about 90% of the issues they even raise money to help, it's a cut on Bottom line - not a giveaway from the heart. Everything to do with the AFL is based on bottom line and more so than most companies and that's why the people distrust them and almost despise them to a point.
The AFL tried to cover up this problem for years. Jason Akermanis was spot on when he pointed out that the AFL was not ready for a gay player to come out and he got blacklisted for it
At the end of the day, it's a workplace, and every person has the right to be in a safe workplace. I do genuinely feel many would be getting a written warning and or potentially dismissal in other workplaces, at the very least... a meeting with HR.
I 100% agree with what you've said, and as a queer AFL fan I really appreciate you being normal about this 😆. I for sure agree that we should hold space for anyone who grew up with this language being normalised to grow and learn , but that might not happen unless the AFL takes a clear stance, and I hope this is that stance. I also feel like a lot of the discussion has only has been a bit one-sided in its focus, forgetting that for every kid that naively says these kinds of words, there is a queer kid who hears it. Maybe an out player in the comp would give this perspective more of a voice, but considering how much he would probably cop it, it's not really fair to expect someone to become a kind of martyr. I also think that this case is interesting as a sort of anti-tribunal situation. Much of the system for handing out player punishments is based entirely around the idea of player intention, but while I would agree that Finlayson/Powell targeting a gay player with this word would be worse than them using it as a general insult, the outcome of taking this into consideration would be putting player sexualities under a microscope in an environment where queer players do not feel comfortable coming out. I'm kind of curious to see how the AFL will handle player sanctions (for any kick it forward listeners, maybe the AFL really do have a slur power ranking hanging up somewhere lol) anyways loved the video, onya 👍
Great vid mate, I also grew up down south in the late 90's/early 00's (i'm getting pretty old) and that word in particular was thrown around the schoolyard constantly. Looking back, the racism was also sickeningly prevalent. The workplace argument is something so many heroes online just don't seem to understand. I've been a chef for 20 years and even in kitchens that word has been taboo for a long time. I can assume its similar on building sites, offices and boardrooms. Why it's considered "soft" or "woke" to be punished for calling someone the F word in the workplace is insane.
Brave topic to cover mate - good on you for voicing your thoughts on an important subject. Agree that this seems like an issue older people (which I include myself in - 29, raised in regional NSW) struggle with. You encapsulated it perfectly with our upbringing seeing a stance of racism being completely unacceptable. Treating homophobia the same is good progress. I don't want to see sledging/banter disappear from the game, but certain things should be considered off limits and I'm glad the AFL are taking a stance. Most AFL players are young men, and young men make stupid mistakes. I feel like these punishments are fair, considering that in any other 6+ figure job you would be walked out of the building for saying something that targeted an individuals race or sexuality. A few weeks on the side lines, the public shaming, an opportunity to own your mistake, educate yourself, and come back a better person seems fair to me. Hopefully it drives change in the game.
One things for sure about this context though Jesse, tackling that word, not the issue of homophobia but the tackling strictly the Use of that Word - is going to be a bigger issue to stop in Australia than any other place in the world imo because of how language is accepted in Australia. Its a different place to anywhere in the world and the more you tell the aus public they cannot do something the opposite effect usually happens, it's more of a cultural issue than a generational one is what im saying basically. Agreed with what you said though 100%.
I’m willing to admit bias as an openly LGBT football player myself but I think this video is spot on. There’s just not a place for it anymore but coming from a semi rural town I completely agree that the word in question is sewn into some people’s vocabulary that genuinely don’t have a prejudice bone in their body. I don’t know Finlayson or Powell personally so I can’t speak on their character, but at the end of the day the most important part of all this is education for the current and upcoming generations on what the word is rooted in and means to a, yes still, marginalised community
Agree with everything you said, Tough topic to tackle but i feel The AFL will be real about homophobia until it affects their bottom line and dollar. That's the reality of politics vs business and humans bend for the business side more often than not.
Mate everything you've said is exactly my thoughts as well. I'm 35 and grew up in the generation where ppl didn't realise what these words meant and thought nothing of it including myself. At first I thought the reactions were over the top this yr. But then I realised I hadn't said those words in a very very long time because I just grew up and learnt that it is not okay. So these players should also have learnt this by now. But the subconscious thing although not an excuse, is a reason why some still say it I think. It will die out with the newer generations for sure which is good.
I don't envy the current generation in their teens and early 20s... everything is designed to be held against you and I see so many people of low character and decency holding themselves above genuinely good people because of things like this.
Love that you cover the hard topics, you spoke well. As any employer the AFL has to stamp out discriminatory slurs in footy, but a 5 week suspension is a lot.
I grew up in the southern US in a conservative suburb in the 90's - the F word among other pejoratives were very common. That in no way excuses the comments but it does explain their background like you said. I think this discussion really should lead to a thoughtful discussion on abusive language in general. I always think about what Dayne Zorko said to Harrison Petty about wishing his mother dead - is there any reason for that? I don't think he got punished for it either. There's no room in the game for abuse of any kind. Trash talking a player's game is fine - leave the personal sh** out of it.
And man, if I used that F word of a coworker, at many places in the US I'd be outright fired if not in serious trouble with HR. Not sure I want to hear whining from folks about athletes copping a relatively minor punishment.
Just a sidenote, I apologise. I don't usually spam your comment section but given the topic, I have more to say than usual. I just wanted to say, as a long time gay subscriber, I appreciate the respectful and (mostly) mature space you have built. I always have felt comfortable entering it and contributing. I also appreciate the good grace with which you take my innuendo and banter 😂😂😂.
No idea why you're apologising! I've always enjoyed your sense of humour Christian. I'm glad to hear you feel that way, although I do really think that's the bare minimum!
@@TrueFootyAFL bruh, you have no idea how frequently most people do not achieve the bare minimum. e.g. You're lucky English has lost gender from its grammar. (English had gendered forms of the/my etc. 1000 years ago, just like German and Dutch). In German/French/Spanish every noun for a person has a male and female version of the word "my/the." In English I say "Oh my ex... blah blah." Later people realise I mean a boy because I explicitly say "so he did..." No-one reacts because they know I meant it. In German (my mother tongue) I say, "Mein ex..." (masc form) and people just straight up correct my grammar and say "meine ex" (fem form). They assume I'm foreign or uneducated and used incorrect grammar.
I think the "they're just words" take i've seen from a lot of people online take is incredibly ignorant, all those people would have never known what is like to be discriminated against for something they cannot change. I would imagine it would have to be really hard to have other people make you feel like there is something inherently wrong with you, and if there were any gay players in the AFL (which I'm 100% sure there are) then I can't imagine how they would possibly feel comfortable coming out to their own teammates let alone the public with this whole drama.
I'm around the same age and if people heard what used to be said in COD lobbies online or around the schoolgrounds back in the day they'd be horrified (also not condoning it)
Yeah, I have lesbian and gay family members, some of them teenagers. The F word is a discussion ender for me. No conversation necessary. I am an oldie now, and come from an era of more horrifying prejudices than this, and even I know better. So, no excuses. If they apologize, yeah…better. Still should be fined. This is not a discussion about whether or not they are good people, or if they have decent characters. This is not about THEM, this is a matter of showing solidarity with a group of people who have historically been treated absolutely atrociously.
Appreciate the level of honesty in your take. I normally can't stand any dialogue around these topics because online it's just such a clusterfuck of genuinely low IQ people (those who comment on facebook posts all day) and sociopathic virtue signallers (twitter users and general trend followers seeking validation.) I'm of similar age to you and come from a similar background in terms of the usage of this word. My take is that there isn't really a deep morality when it comes to these things. It's a cultural thing. If its cool with you and its cool with me then its fine. Once you're in a greater community there are gonna be more things people dont find cool because, the larger the community, the less trust one can have on any individuals character in that community. The use of any kind of inflammatory language can be a sign that someone is a bad person. I'd personally be giving these players the benefit of the doubt in terms of what we truly think of their character but the AFL doesnt have to.
The truth is that words only carry as much weight as we give them. Any word could be "weaponised" given enough attention, so words that today are pretty innocuous in the future may be seen as horrendous words that no one would dare utter. I would hope to think that most AFL players would happily have a "homophobic slur" in place of a serious injury or concussion.
interesting, but history and culture still gives weight to it today. got a lot of boys still growing up not understanding sexuality and see it as foreign even if ur not straight. obviously no one wants to be concussed, but the word can still be damaging today. we have no idea if clarko, finlayson or powell or homophobic, but the word only came out because of how these guys were raised
@@papleylivesrentfreeinurhead I think the word would only be offensive if someone was actually gay. Ideally that would be taken into context, though I think most AFL players keep that kind of stuff private, so it's kind of a catch-22 there
Great video on a topic that can be very sensitive for some (fragile and insecure) people. I think you are absolutely right that it is most likely that Powell and Finlayson aren’t homophobic but it absolutely should be stamped out of the game and punished accordingly. Keep up the good work 👍
tackled this very well mate, well done. this will take a long time unfortunately. hell it took tassie til 97 to decriminalise homosexuality. but these steps will hopefully change the culture. like u said it starts with the kids. unfortunately, and i know firsthandedly, the culture isnt changing in some families and groups, and schools its even worse. its up to the new generations now to change. if this is how we change, then so be it. like u said idk how much leeway any of us get in the workplace, but change can happen, why not start on the field
Yeah I get what you’re saying, different times 10-15 years ago. However they would have learnt in recent years not to use it, they’re not ignorant children anymore. They’re fully grown adults that should know now not to use that language. Especially for Powell just bc before Powell it was Clarko, then Finlayson, like he has seen them say similar stuff and receive punishment so you’d think he would know not to, but he still did. They probably are homophobic bc that is also normalised. There is a slight difference in intentional homophobia and homophobia that just comes from ignorance, neither are okay, but they come from different places & I think for a lot of these guys it’s the latter; ignorance not intentional hatred, but I could be wrong
Love your thoughts dude. Interesting how you compared f word to c word back in the day. I think that if they want to tighten up on homophobia, they should probably also tighten up on the c word, which I think is pretty sexist and just as worse as f word. Yet c word is probably said multiple time a game on the field.
"The times they are a changin'" recorded 1963 lol... whatever the punishment there, the players will move on and be fine. As you said about your personal experience, maybe this is theirs. Im sure there are plenty of still acceptable insults to use, and can always get creative lol
I'm the same as you. In school it was used all the time and very rarely as a genuine homophobic slur. But, it is a homophobic slur and there's no place for it in the workplace
Mate it’s simple. give words power and they have meaning. If you throw around the word like “that’s gay” there’s a different context and intention behind it
On the one hand I'm in favour of grading all the grubby non-football actions like this more harshly and trying to get them out of the game. These may just be young 20 year olds in some cases but I also think it's fair to point out they are part of a massive, billion dollar, public facing enterprise and are very well compensated. All of these "kids" should have seen a few rounds of media training, cultural safety training, frequent HR interactions, access to counseling where necessary etc. If a 12-13 year old can figure out in one conversation with a mate that this word is not OK in a private setting, an adult in their 20's with a dozen TV cameras aimed at them deserves to take a bit of heat for getting this wrong. It doesn't make the person irredeemable just grubby in that particular act. On the other hand, this is just speech albeit bigoted and totally not acceptable. Feels like this could be a bit of a slippery slope. For example, hypothetically if a player said what Mick Malthouse said to Stephen Milne, circa 2014, to another player, would this get weeks now and how many? How about Brett Montgomery sledging Adam Ramanauskus about his cancer battle? Now that there's a precedent for players copping serious weeks for speech, it'll be interesting to see where the line is and how things of this nature are graded in future.
Homophobia is rampant in the world and it's so so sad to see people we look up to using derogatory terms. I can understand growing up around it, but I also grew up hearing a lot of slurs, and have never ever even considered using them, even in the "heat of the moment". It is an active choice to use a slur. If it "slips out", it means it's a part of your vocabulary and therefore needs to be removed. These punishments are needed because people (players and supporters) clearly still aren't understanding the weight of a slur. Queer people have heard that word while they were assaulted, beat up and murdered. It's still used to incite hate and violence. I hate that fans are crying "woke" and "sticks and stones" because they don't understand the background and the threat behind the f slur. As a queer fan, seeing my favourite players throw out such an awful word and then hearing fans claim that the AFL is "going soft" is so disheartening and frankly makes me afraid to go to games. If you think that the AFL is going too hard on these guys, please just use some empathy and think about the history of the word and how charged with violence and discrimination it is. We all need to be kinder to each other.
There are a whole lot of people in the comments here saying things like "it's just a word" or "sticks and stones", comparing a physical injury to a slur. I just want to throw some light out there so people realise what they are actually saying. The fact is, words can cause psychological scarring. Maybe not if you hear it just once, but imagine it being thrown at you time and time again. For queer people, this is a regular occurance. It's the same thing with racism. People in minority groups hear this stuff continuously, and over time, it begins to add up. Now, if we want to compare it to physical injury, imagine breaking your arm over and over again in the same spot. Over time, it's not the same, and the bone will be permanently affected. The difference here though, is that a scarred, damaged bone will not cause people to feel as though their only way to escape is either substance abuse, or to end it all. Some of you talk about the AFL being "soft" or "too woke", but the people who are looking at it this way have clearly never been on the receiving end of endless ridicule and abuse targeted at something that is inherent in you as a person. It's the people who are seen as "different" by society that are picked on. POC or queer people are the outliers, and honestly, the only issue I have with the AFL's sanctions is the inconsistency. Any homophobic or racist remarks should get sanctioned, absolutely no doubt in my mind
What happens if a guy has his knee on your throat and you need to get him off... what is the worse crime? What about players who make comments about players' family members. what is worse? I think certain comments are regular insults that still occur at school and in community. It can be an insult or can be used in almost a friendly way. Certainly kids that are teenagers still call their friends, family and parents that name. Its happening right here right now. The AFL has to be consistent.
In the US people are being executed for mass murder. So what if a player makes a "Gaff" and breaks someone's jaw, it's going on in society everyday. I mean what's worse? 🤷♂️ That's how dumb you sound. Obviously, other than the holocaust, no event is ever "the worst thing to ever happen" doesn't mean that IN CONTEXT it isn't problematic. Just because it doesn't affect YOU PERSONALLY, doesn't make it not an issue for other people.
as a 28 year old queer woman it's actually really eye opening to hear how common place it is still or was for people growing up. i've heard the f word maybe twice in my life irl and used in a derogatory way. my first response to the will powell thing was just like how is this happening and he's younger than me. these words endure, that was a reality check. they aren't going anywhere and will also be reclaimed by the community which preserves them in culture. but hopefully this is a step in the right direction of how unacceptable they are when used outside of that context and when intentionally derogatory and by people outside of the community. i do think it's really important to reframe the context and connotations around being homophobic. it is homophobia and they are being homophobic by using that language and that is a direct result of cultural and societal norms. we need to have more grace for people's capacity to grown and make better choices. they are homophobic. it is homophobic to do what they did. there is ingrained homophobia in a hetero-patriarchal society. the work is unlearning that. but they aren't evil, irredeemable people. they have an opportunity to do better and should be afforded that within reason, they've taken accountability and that's the first step. i think about racism in the same way. all of us, white people, have to be willing to engage in the work of unlearning racism ingrained in us by a colonial government, we might balk and get defensive when called racist because of the weight that accusation has but it's our responsibility to hear that and then get to work. there's a lot of ways to harm people and make them feel less than that aren't outright attacks or the most severe thing we can imagine but still matter are perpetuate a culture that says those things are ok. they uphold the status quo.
@@wades9327 Sorry but you strike me as a person who actively seeks out opportunities to call other people offended. Hot take, saying slurs is probably bad, and we should do better. I know I've used the same words that have been used by players here, but I grew up. We should be trying to grow and improve.
@@jebbersceb I love the whole progressive movement from "let's whinge and whine until everything gets cancelled" to trying to meme that reality out of existence. Because we havent just this year had Mothers Day and Anzac Day be attacked in the name of "inclusion" If no-one is offended, then why is Wil Powell serving one of the harshest suspensions in recent memory? I never said it was appropriate (I called it poor conduct btw) and trust me, as an umpire, I've heard worse. I'm say that pseudo-intellectuals like the woman above who think they are better than us aren't proving any kind of point, nor convincing anyone by meaninglessly yapping about "patriarchal this", "white that" and "hetero this". We aren't evolving as a society and doing better by arrogantly proselytising to each other and attempting to make meaning out of spur of the moment insults that don't really matter compared to, I don't know, king hits and cheap shots.
@@wades9327 Sounds like you are getting your knickers in a knot about someone who is actually affected by this sharing their experience. Unless you don’t mind people using homophobic language to belittle others on the footy field, and as a result making AFL an unsafe place for our queer mates, there really should be no reason you’re upset about the AFL taking this seriously.
❤.. well said..!! I believe there is gay players in the AFL..i am hoping and waiting for the day ( hopefully very soon) when they feel safe and accepted enough to come out.🌈🌈🌈🌈💙💛..
I do think words are very important, especially since meaning carries weight within culture, and either stunts or promotes certain attitudes. However, I think that making a person go and do "Pride in Sport training" is too far. It sounds like an extensive program, given you have to pay for it. I don't think it takes "training" to change a person's attitude, and the fact that it probably has ideological underlinings uncomfortably feels more like forceable brainwashing (although I'm sure it doesn't go that far). What would make more sense was if there was a regulating group which enforced basic equality/respect for all players and I'm sure this would not require some kind of "training" program. Why specifically pride? Of course the LGBTQ community have been subject to a lot of unfounded prejudice, but unfortunately (not entirely their fault), it is now inherently linked to a smothering ideology. I think everyone wants equality, etc. but such demands inevitably restrain other worldviews. For example, Christianity, Judaism, Catholicism, which are all called to tell people about the good news of heaven (in a non-indoctrination manner) are restrained because now one secular worldview claims everyone must keep beliefs to themselves to keep the peace. Yet in doing so, it promotes that very belief and doesn't keep to itself. In Victoria, Christians can't pray with LGBTQ people in public to avoid indoctrination... but surely this is both ineffective and unfair for others of faith? So in summary what I'm saying is that "Pride" training, although well intended, cannot be separated from its ideology, and I think it is dangerously tipping into a wider form of indoctrination. Not sure what others think, but that's my current take.
Those words, the F one and also the C one were always used to basically indicate that someone was annoying you in some way. i.e "Stop being a F", and "Stop being a C". It's a casual use of the word and actually probably represents 90% of their use. Same also applies to the "W" word, rhymes with anchor. Personally I don't use any of those words, but I know how they're used. The AFL to say that Finlayson or the other guy "used a homophobic slur" in my opinion have to prove that the person is homophobic (hates gay people), and that their use of the word was more than just that casual usage. So if the players just says "Stop being a (insert any of those words", especially in context or them doing something, I don't see any issue with it. If a player says something more like "I know you're a _______, you disgust me, people like you shouldn't be on the field, or shouldn't live" then that's when it's an issue. That's how I see it. Honestly I think people need to grow up :P
For me I don’t disagree players should be punished but it seems completely arbitrary how punishments are dealt out, there’s been 3 examples of the behaviour and 3 different punishments given. But perhaps inconsistency is already rife throughout the afl officiating and sanctions so 🤷♂️
Don’t forget Aussie rules haters mainly soccer and rugby league fans love the word GAYFL insult to throw at the sport as well it doesn’t help which means the current generation at least for the AFL states will grow up knowing those slurs are bad compared to the fans of other spots who hate Aussie rules
I'm going to no doubt be an outlier here, but I honestly do think that the pendulum has swung too far the other way. Yes, it's poor conduct, but five weeks is utterly overboard. We have gay teachers boasting about indoctrinating kids and "making them gay" and this kind of attitude only emboldens such arrogant attitudes. Imagine if they were talking about making kids Christian or enforcing straightness? As for the "safe workplace" perspective, come on. These guys work in a high pressure environment in which physical injury is a common occurrence but one word is enough to make them feel "unsafe". Spare me.
@@AJHornet1 How do you know it was "hurtful"? Do you know the player involved? Stop trying to inflate your own ego by getting offended on behalf of others and take your own advice. Grow up.
There’s no such thing as “teachers boasting about indoctrinating kids and making them gay.” Ironically enough you are indoctrinated to believe such bs like that.
Absolute drivel. There is no threat to straight people in the way there is for queer people. Homophobic language is hurtful to queer fans of the AFL, who would not feel welcome if this was permissible, and obviously since there has never been an AFL player to come out as gay, they do not feel safe to do so. Just like how we shouldn’t accept racist language, homophobia shouldn’t be copped too.
We have gay teachers boasting about indoctrinating kids and "making them gay" 1. You can’t make someone gay 2. Do you have any evidence of this other than some post by the daily wire on twitter or Facebook
Very well said mate. Unfortunately in the modern world of online discourse and social media, there is little room for nuance in many topics of discussion.
I think everything you bought up, especially your personal anecdotes points to the futility of the AFL punishing players. This will not achieve their aims. The thing that made you change the words that you use was a personal, one on one discussion. Not a public shaming. If there is genuine hurt from a comment that somebody made then put them in a room and let them talk it through. If that player understands the other guy then he will change how he acts in a genuine way rather than getting "punished" and then resenting the whole process and probably mumbling gay slurs under his breath for the next year or more.
I agree that's probably the best way to reform the individual player. The punishment is maybe more about setting an example to other players and supporters that this isn't something tolerated in the game anymore.
Likening using the F word with the C word in Australian culture will never make sense to me. Different words for different contexts. Not something we should throw out in professional contexts but I just don't know. I really don't like you can cop a massively longer suspension saying naughty stuff than a dangerous tackle. Feels wrong.
Nice try, but you'll never convince me that the horrible word in question is a cause for anything more than a reprimand, with escalation for repeat offences by the individual. As for the 'f' word being a horrible word: how about the 'g' word? Am I to be punished if I call someone 'gay' (whether they are or not)? Rainbow-person? Pride-marcher? How about if I use a word that implies a person is heterosexual? (whether they are or not). In my frame of reference, I think the 'p' word leaves the 'f' word for dead. Speaking of "in what workplace would ... (etc)", I ask: in what workplace do I forcefully throw my weight at my workplace-colleague? The concept of workplace safety has a different meaning in a contact sport. Antagonism and contained hostility is what makes the game what it is. The AFL, like many contemporary organisations, is scared of the gay rights advocates; those open-minded paragons of reasonableness. It's that simple.
You call gay people “gay” because that’s what they are, you don’t call them a slur. It’s the same as how you call black people “black”, and not the n word. Shit take 😂
And no one gets offended as a straight person because that’s normal, it’s expected. If you do get affected, it’s likely because you don’t like gay people anyway.
Grow up, it’s only 5 because it needs to make an impact. Can’t do that handing out fines. As someone else in the comment section said, “For every kid that says it, another kid hears it” it’s not nice to be discriminated against for something you can’t control.
@@gwilkes5325 For context, Barry Hall got 7 weeks for destroying Brent Staker and having a woeful record at the tribunal. Every single game, players and teams are mouthing off to each other? 5 weeks is ridiculous. I did say earlier “ it’s not nice”, I’m not saying it’s great. But 5???
I’m not sure why players are getting so upset. Yeah it’s not cool but if you don’t let it bother you. They’re only words said by sad pathetic individuals
Ignorance in the face of evil, is evil itself. It breeds more. I’d imagine a few players know someone who’d be affected by this and knows that letting it go is doing no one any favours.
i think this is fair and i understand where you're coming from, but if you think that, then the problem is that the maynard decision wasn't harsh enough. the problem isn't with the powell sanction. if you were just talking about general inconsistencies in the tribunal, i would agree with you (see hamish brayshaw's recent comments for an example of this). it's just that by directly comparing the two cases, it kind of dismisses the issue homophobia in the AFL, even if that wasn't intentional.
Mate, It's crazy how well you can articulate your thoughts. That's rare in the Footy UA-cam world *Clap Clap*
Thank you mate that's very kind!
I play on a team with quite a few aboriginal kids and I'd say they'd cop some sort of abuse in 1 of every 5 games we play. We play under 17s and I agree that meaningful change around this will take a lot of time. I feel that the AFL is going 100% the right way about it. The kids of my generation need to learn that this stuff is wrong and that there will be punishment. Anyway, just my two cents, love your content man.
Yeah, it’s even worse because there’s no consequences.
Good on you for talking about this Jesse. We need more people like you to talk about it and call it out. It’s good that the AFL is drawing this line, I’m hopeful that this won’t take as long, hopefully players take note and we don’t see any more of this language and the lengthy bans from them.
I grew up in a time where the f-word was accepted as a lesser swear word and was common among general banter and actual verbals. I don't have a time that it stopped it just left my vernacular over time along with a few other words. Truth is this is the only way to get it out of footy. Like it or not there are no openly gay players in the comp. Be that they are closeted because it's too hostile, because gay kids leave the sport due to hostility before AFL level or a mix of all I don't know but statistically there are some out there. I do wish it was more consistent in the punishment but punished they should be. The AFL as an employer can set the standard that they see fit and set the ban where they see fit. Also the next Gary Ablett Jr or Buddy Franklin may not play because they're weeded out at grassroots level and that's a loss to all of footy. I'm all for footy being more inclusive because it means we don't miss out on watching the next big thing if he happens to be gay
Well said dude. Just as a player 'in the heat of the moment' will get punished for punching someone, the same has to happen for homophobic and racist slurs. There's no place for it in the game, and the stance that the league is taking will hopefully stamp it out for good.
If the recipient of the slur responded with, “yeah, so what.”, then the one dishing it out looks stupid. I worked with a guy that was upfront that he was gay, he was very good at his job and his sexuality became irrelevant. Things won’t change over night, but they will change.
Here in America the word was commonly used as a general insult even all through high school, at least where I lived. Among friends groups it was basically a term of endearment. Even the openly gay guys used it, which shows how little people considered the actual meaning. The South Park episode conveys pretty well how it was used.
@@milkwalkerjones633 Yeah, man, but those are kids amongst groups of friends. It's not the employees of a premier sporting club, representing their club, on a national stage. There's never been an opening gay AFL player; events like this and using slurs like that just go to show how there likely won't be one for a long while. There's been plenty of gay players, but none openly.
Also, a group of high school boys, gay or not, aren't exactly a litmus test for appropriate forms of communication.
Mate, so refreshing to hear a nuanced perspective on the issue. The context matters, but absolutely not an excuse. I think the most damning thing for me, is that we haven't seen someone willing to come out at the AFL level yet and it's comments like Clarkson's, Finalyson's and Powell's that continue to reinforce the notion that being born gay is somehow bad. Like you said, statistically speaking it is highly unlikely that the AFL hasn't seen a gay player, and there is absolutely no place for homophobia in the same way that there is no place for racism.
I'm just glad the AFL is FINALLY taking some action to stamp out homophobia. I dont think the punishments are over-the-top or whatever because what it's doing is sending a very clear message to everyone that the AFL needs to be a safe space for queer people, and in doshing out the multi-week bans I feel that to a degree is also recognising the much much wider context of the issue of homophobia as compared to like a dangerous tackle etc
You're confusing terms. In some cultures its a regular term used. Others it isn't. You look at indigenous culture even and what they consider normal and appropriate is quite different. Its not a term that I use, but then again I don't swear. The fact is that many swear words are offensive to people and people including females feel threatened and intimidated. You need to look at the behaviour.
@@BDub2024 Dude its a term that's directly derogatry towards queer people. It's not Fuck or Shit, it's a fucking slur. Shithouse take
@@BDub2024 the general culture and public perception of the word has moved to stamp it out, as well as homophobia in general. just because its part of a culture doesnt mean its necesarily ok
@@papleylivesrentfreeinurhead its not going to get stamped out. fact is that people call themselves the word increasingly. A bit like italians call themselves wogs, and african americans another word... The thing is that I think the use of the word in the school yard is more than ever now. Anything weak is now described in that term, though it was uncommon in Australia 40 years ago. So I am a bit surprised that you think its being stamped out. My view on the footy field is stop petty mouthing off between players. Players association need to step up there. Also players need to stop bumping guys off the ball when they miss a shot at goal. A lot of the problems with punches behind play, jumper punches and insults and taunts could be removed.
@@papleylivesrentfreeinurhead I think there are a lot of inappropriate comments made. But some are tolerated and others aren't. I'd say neither should be made and the game needs to remove silly mouthing off and petty name calling by players that goes on. That would remove the problem. Often players are responding to something that they've been told that they take offence of, but get sucked into responding inappropriately. So lets all be grown men and stop name calling all round.
You are exactly the right person to be talking about this stuff. Congratulations. You may lose a few members, but do you really want them?
I did notice somewhere between 5-10 unsubscribed from this video haha
Brilliant video Jesse.. I agree with everything you’ve said, and it shouldn’t be understated how important it is that you’ve posted this. Thank you for taking a stance and sharing your thoughts 💪
If this was a De Goey or a Bontempelli (not saying they ever would) pick any star player - would the AFL have the integrity to uphold a 5 Game ban? Would they do it in a Finals campaign? I'm not so sure Jesse, the AFL are good talkers but legitimately i know they do not care about 90% of the issues they even raise money to help, it's a cut on Bottom line - not a giveaway from the heart. Everything to do with the AFL is based on bottom line and more so than most companies and that's why the people distrust them and almost despise them to a point.
What school did you go to in Bunbury? I’m from Busselton so I’m curious.
Bunbury high for two years!
I admire you for having the bravery to tackle the issue on camera though big up jesse! 💯🔥
The AFL tried to cover up this problem for years. Jason Akermanis was spot on when he pointed out that the AFL was not ready for a gay player to come out and he got blacklisted for it
At the end of the day, it's a workplace, and every person has the right to be in a safe workplace. I do genuinely feel many would be getting a written warning and or potentially dismissal in other workplaces, at the very least... a meeting with HR.
I 100% agree with what you've said, and as a queer AFL fan I really appreciate you being normal about this 😆.
I for sure agree that we should hold space for anyone who grew up with this language being normalised to grow and learn , but that might not happen unless the AFL takes a clear stance, and I hope this is that stance. I also feel like a lot of the discussion has only has been a bit one-sided in its focus, forgetting that for every kid that naively says these kinds of words, there is a queer kid who hears it. Maybe an out player in the comp would give this perspective more of a voice, but considering how much he would probably cop it, it's not really fair to expect someone to become a kind of martyr.
I also think that this case is interesting as a sort of anti-tribunal situation. Much of the system for handing out player punishments is based entirely around the idea of player intention, but while I would agree that Finlayson/Powell targeting a gay player with this word would be worse than them using it as a general insult, the outcome of taking this into consideration would be putting player sexualities under a microscope in an environment where queer players do not feel comfortable coming out. I'm kind of curious to see how the AFL will handle player sanctions (for any kick it forward listeners, maybe the AFL really do have a slur power ranking hanging up somewhere lol)
anyways loved the video, onya 👍
Great vid mate, I also grew up down south in the late 90's/early 00's (i'm getting pretty old) and that word in particular was thrown around the schoolyard constantly. Looking back, the racism was also sickeningly prevalent. The workplace argument is something so many heroes online just don't seem to understand. I've been a chef for 20 years and even in kitchens that word has been taboo for a long time. I can assume its similar on building sites, offices and boardrooms. Why it's considered "soft" or "woke" to be punished for calling someone the F word in the workplace is insane.
Brave topic to cover mate - good on you for voicing your thoughts on an important subject.
Agree that this seems like an issue older people (which I include myself in - 29, raised in regional NSW) struggle with. You encapsulated it perfectly with our upbringing seeing a stance of racism being completely unacceptable. Treating homophobia the same is good progress.
I don't want to see sledging/banter disappear from the game, but certain things should be considered off limits and I'm glad the AFL are taking a stance.
Most AFL players are young men, and young men make stupid mistakes. I feel like these punishments are fair, considering that in any other 6+ figure job you would be walked out of the building for saying something that targeted an individuals race or sexuality. A few weeks on the side lines, the public shaming, an opportunity to own your mistake, educate yourself, and come back a better person seems fair to me. Hopefully it drives change in the game.
What did they say
One things for sure about this context though Jesse, tackling that word, not the issue of homophobia but the tackling strictly the Use of that Word - is going to be a bigger issue to stop in Australia than any other place in the world imo because of how language is accepted in Australia. Its a different place to anywhere in the world and the more you tell the aus public they cannot do something the opposite effect usually happens, it's more of a cultural issue than a generational one is what im saying basically. Agreed with what you said though 100%.
Well said. I think the reality is that some things are more important than football.
I’m willing to admit bias as an openly LGBT football player myself but I think this video is spot on. There’s just not a place for it anymore but coming from a semi rural town I completely agree that the word in question is sewn into some people’s vocabulary that genuinely don’t have a prejudice bone in their body. I don’t know Finlayson or Powell personally so I can’t speak on their character, but at the end of the day the most important part of all this is education for the current and upcoming generations on what the word is rooted in and means to a, yes still, marginalised community
Agree with everything you said, Tough topic to tackle but i feel The AFL will be real about homophobia until it affects their bottom line and dollar. That's the reality of politics vs business and humans bend for the business side more often than not.
Mate everything you've said is exactly my thoughts as well. I'm 35 and grew up in the generation where ppl didn't realise what these words meant and thought nothing of it including myself. At first I thought the reactions were over the top this yr. But then I realised I hadn't said those words in a very very long time because I just grew up and learnt that it is not okay. So these players should also have learnt this by now. But the subconscious thing although not an excuse, is a reason why some still say it I think. It will die out with the newer generations for sure which is good.
I don't envy the current generation in their teens and early 20s... everything is designed to be held against you and I see so many people of low character and decency holding themselves above genuinely good people because of things like this.
Yeah, you can treat people like absolute dirt but as long as you vocalise your support of the LGBT community you're a saint ;)
Love that you cover the hard topics, you spoke well. As any employer the AFL has to stamp out discriminatory slurs in footy, but a 5 week suspension is a lot.
I grew up in the southern US in a conservative suburb in the 90's - the F word among other pejoratives were very common. That in no way excuses the comments but it does explain their background like you said. I think this discussion really should lead to a thoughtful discussion on abusive language in general. I always think about what Dayne Zorko said to Harrison Petty about wishing his mother dead - is there any reason for that? I don't think he got punished for it either. There's no room in the game for abuse of any kind. Trash talking a player's game is fine - leave the personal sh** out of it.
And man, if I used that F word of a coworker, at many places in the US I'd be outright fired if not in serious trouble with HR. Not sure I want to hear whining from folks about athletes copping a relatively minor punishment.
Really balanced video. From a fellow Bunbury boy that heard (and used) a lot of F words growing up, well done.
Just a sidenote, I apologise. I don't usually spam your comment section but given the topic, I have more to say than usual. I just wanted to say, as a long time gay subscriber, I appreciate the respectful and (mostly) mature space you have built. I always have felt comfortable entering it and contributing. I also appreciate the good grace with which you take my innuendo and banter 😂😂😂.
No idea why you're apologising! I've always enjoyed your sense of humour Christian. I'm glad to hear you feel that way, although I do really think that's the bare minimum!
@@TrueFootyAFL bruh, you have no idea how frequently most people do not achieve the bare minimum.
e.g. You're lucky English has lost gender from its grammar. (English had gendered forms of the/my etc. 1000 years ago, just like German and Dutch).
In German/French/Spanish every noun for a person has a male and female version of the word "my/the." In English I say "Oh my ex... blah blah." Later people realise I mean a boy because I explicitly say "so he did..." No-one reacts because they know I meant it. In German (my mother tongue) I say, "Mein ex..." (masc form) and people just straight up correct my grammar and say "meine ex" (fem form). They assume I'm foreign or uneducated and used incorrect grammar.
I think the "they're just words" take i've seen from a lot of people online take is incredibly ignorant, all those people would have never known what is like to be discriminated against for something they cannot change. I would imagine it would have to be really hard to have other people make you feel like there is something inherently wrong with you, and if there were any gay players in the AFL (which I'm 100% sure there are) then I can't imagine how they would possibly feel comfortable coming out to their own teammates let alone the public with this whole drama.
they are just words. Regardless of the creeping weakness that affects the pathetic listener.
I'm around the same age and if people heard what used to be said in COD lobbies online or around the schoolgrounds back in the day they'd be horrified (also not condoning it)
Yeah, I have lesbian and gay family members, some of them teenagers. The F word is a discussion ender for me. No conversation necessary. I am an oldie now, and come from an era of more horrifying prejudices than this, and even I know better. So, no excuses. If they apologize, yeah…better. Still should be fined. This is not a discussion about whether or not they are good people, or if they have decent characters. This is not about THEM, this is a matter of showing solidarity with a group of people who have historically been treated absolutely atrociously.
Appreciate the level of honesty in your take. I normally can't stand any dialogue around these topics because online it's just such a clusterfuck of genuinely low IQ people (those who comment on facebook posts all day) and sociopathic virtue signallers (twitter users and general trend followers seeking validation.) I'm of similar age to you and come from a similar background in terms of the usage of this word. My take is that there isn't really a deep morality when it comes to these things. It's a cultural thing. If its cool with you and its cool with me then its fine. Once you're in a greater community there are gonna be more things people dont find cool because, the larger the community, the less trust one can have on any individuals character in that community. The use of any kind of inflammatory language can be a sign that someone is a bad person. I'd personally be giving these players the benefit of the doubt in terms of what we truly think of their character but the AFL doesnt have to.
The truth is that words only carry as much weight as we give them.
Any word could be "weaponised" given enough attention, so words that today are pretty innocuous in the future may be seen as horrendous words that no one would dare utter.
I would hope to think that most AFL players would happily have a "homophobic slur" in place of a serious injury or concussion.
interesting, but history and culture still gives weight to it today. got a lot of boys still growing up not understanding sexuality and see it as foreign even if ur not straight. obviously no one wants to be concussed, but the word can still be damaging today. we have no idea if clarko, finlayson or powell or homophobic, but the word only came out because of how these guys were raised
@@papleylivesrentfreeinurhead I think the word would only be offensive if someone was actually gay.
Ideally that would be taken into context, though I think most AFL players keep that kind of stuff private, so it's kind of a catch-22 there
Great video on a topic that can be very sensitive for some (fragile and insecure) people. I think you are absolutely right that it is most likely that Powell and Finlayson aren’t homophobic but it absolutely should be stamped out of the game and punished accordingly. Keep up the good work 👍
tackled this very well mate, well done. this will take a long time unfortunately. hell it took tassie til 97 to decriminalise homosexuality. but these steps will hopefully change the culture. like u said it starts with the kids. unfortunately, and i know firsthandedly, the culture isnt changing in some families and groups, and schools its even worse. its up to the new generations now to change. if this is how we change, then so be it. like u said idk how much leeway any of us get in the workplace, but change can happen, why not start on the field
Yeah I get what you’re saying, different times 10-15 years ago. However they would have learnt in recent years not to use it, they’re not ignorant children anymore. They’re fully grown adults that should know now not to use that language. Especially for Powell just bc before Powell it was Clarko, then Finlayson, like he has seen them say similar stuff and receive punishment so you’d think he would know not to, but he still did. They probably are homophobic bc that is also normalised. There is a slight difference in intentional homophobia and homophobia that just comes from ignorance, neither are okay, but they come from different places & I think for a lot of these guys it’s the latter; ignorance not intentional hatred, but I could be wrong
Love your thoughts dude. Interesting how you compared f word to c word back in the day. I think that if they want to tighten up on homophobia, they should probably also tighten up on the c word, which I think is pretty sexist and just as worse as f word. Yet c word is probably said multiple time a game on the field.
"The times they are a changin'" recorded 1963 lol... whatever the punishment there, the players will move on and be fine. As you said about your personal experience, maybe this is theirs. Im sure there are plenty of still acceptable insults to use, and can always get creative lol
I'm the same as you. In school it was used all the time and very rarely as a genuine homophobic slur. But, it is a homophobic slur and there's no place for it in the workplace
Mate it’s simple.
give words power and they have meaning. If you throw around the word like “that’s gay” there’s a different context and intention behind it
On the one hand I'm in favour of grading all the grubby non-football actions like this more harshly and trying to get them out of the game. These may just be young 20 year olds in some cases but I also think it's fair to point out they are part of a massive, billion dollar, public facing enterprise and are very well compensated. All of these "kids" should have seen a few rounds of media training, cultural safety training, frequent HR interactions, access to counseling where necessary etc. If a 12-13 year old can figure out in one conversation with a mate that this word is not OK in a private setting, an adult in their 20's with a dozen TV cameras aimed at them deserves to take a bit of heat for getting this wrong. It doesn't make the person irredeemable just grubby in that particular act.
On the other hand, this is just speech albeit bigoted and totally not acceptable. Feels like this could be a bit of a slippery slope. For example, hypothetically if a player said what Mick Malthouse said to Stephen Milne, circa 2014, to another player, would this get weeks now and how many? How about Brett Montgomery sledging Adam Ramanauskus about his cancer battle? Now that there's a precedent for players copping serious weeks for speech, it'll be interesting to see where the line is and how things of this nature are graded in future.
Homophobia is rampant in the world and it's so so sad to see people we look up to using derogatory terms.
I can understand growing up around it, but I also grew up hearing a lot of slurs, and have never ever even considered using them, even in the "heat of the moment". It is an active choice to use a slur. If it "slips out", it means it's a part of your vocabulary and therefore needs to be removed.
These punishments are needed because people (players and supporters) clearly still aren't understanding the weight of a slur. Queer people have heard that word while they were assaulted, beat up and murdered. It's still used to incite hate and violence. I hate that fans are crying "woke" and "sticks and stones" because they don't understand the background and the threat behind the f slur.
As a queer fan, seeing my favourite players throw out such an awful word and then hearing fans claim that the AFL is "going soft" is so disheartening and frankly makes me afraid to go to games.
If you think that the AFL is going too hard on these guys, please just use some empathy and think about the history of the word and how charged with violence and discrimination it is. We all need to be kinder to each other.
There are a whole lot of people in the comments here saying things like "it's just a word" or "sticks and stones", comparing a physical injury to a slur. I just want to throw some light out there so people realise what they are actually saying. The fact is, words can cause psychological scarring. Maybe not if you hear it just once, but imagine it being thrown at you time and time again. For queer people, this is a regular occurance. It's the same thing with racism. People in minority groups hear this stuff continuously, and over time, it begins to add up. Now, if we want to compare it to physical injury, imagine breaking your arm over and over again in the same spot. Over time, it's not the same, and the bone will be permanently affected. The difference here though, is that a scarred, damaged bone will not cause people to feel as though their only way to escape is either substance abuse, or to end it all. Some of you talk about the AFL being "soft" or "too woke", but the people who are looking at it this way have clearly never been on the receiving end of endless ridicule and abuse targeted at something that is inherent in you as a person. It's the people who are seen as "different" by society that are picked on. POC or queer people are the outliers, and honestly, the only issue I have with the AFL's sanctions is the inconsistency. Any homophobic or racist remarks should get sanctioned, absolutely no doubt in my mind
What happens if a guy has his knee on your throat and you need to get him off... what is the worse crime? What about players who make comments about players' family members. what is worse? I think certain comments are regular insults that still occur at school and in community. It can be an insult or can be used in almost a friendly way. Certainly kids that are teenagers still call their friends, family and parents that name. Its happening right here right now. The AFL has to be consistent.
In the US people are being executed for mass murder. So what if a player makes a "Gaff" and breaks someone's jaw, it's going on in society everyday. I mean what's worse? 🤷♂️
That's how dumb you sound.
Obviously, other than the holocaust, no event is ever "the worst thing to ever happen" doesn't mean that IN CONTEXT it isn't problematic. Just because it doesn't affect YOU PERSONALLY, doesn't make it not an issue for other people.
still dunno what this f word is? is the word "finlason"?
It's finals. You don't hear that word much if you're from the Fremantle area
@@TrueFootyAFL that justt makes thins more confusing lol, and nah im in vic
Ha I’m in Bunbury, represent 🤘
as a 28 year old queer woman it's actually really eye opening to hear how common place it is still or was for people growing up. i've heard the f word maybe twice in my life irl and used in a derogatory way. my first response to the will powell thing was just like how is this happening and he's younger than me. these words endure, that was a reality check. they aren't going anywhere and will also be reclaimed by the community which preserves them in culture. but hopefully this is a step in the right direction of how unacceptable they are when used outside of that context and when intentionally derogatory and by people outside of the community.
i do think it's really important to reframe the context and connotations around being homophobic. it is homophobia and they are being homophobic by using that language and that is a direct result of cultural and societal norms. we need to have more grace for people's capacity to grown and make better choices. they are homophobic. it is homophobic to do what they did. there is ingrained homophobia in a hetero-patriarchal society. the work is unlearning that. but they aren't evil, irredeemable people. they have an opportunity to do better and should be afforded that within reason, they've taken accountability and that's the first step. i think about racism in the same way. all of us, white people, have to be willing to engage in the work of unlearning racism ingrained in us by a colonial government, we might balk and get defensive when called racist because of the weight that accusation has but it's our responsibility to hear that and then get to work. there's a lot of ways to harm people and make them feel less than that aren't outright attacks or the most severe thing we can imagine but still matter are perpetuate a culture that says those things are ok. they uphold the status quo.
No one is reading all of this
Sorry but you strike me as someone actively looking to be offended with all of the cache that comes with that.
@@wades9327 Sorry but you strike me as a person who actively seeks out opportunities to call other people offended. Hot take, saying slurs is probably bad, and we should do better. I know I've used the same words that have been used by players here, but I grew up. We should be trying to grow and improve.
@@jebbersceb I love the whole progressive movement from "let's whinge and whine until everything gets cancelled" to trying to meme that reality out of existence. Because we havent just this year had Mothers Day and Anzac Day be attacked in the name of "inclusion" If no-one is offended, then why is Wil Powell serving one of the harshest suspensions in recent memory? I never said it was appropriate (I called it poor conduct btw) and trust me, as an umpire, I've heard worse. I'm say that pseudo-intellectuals like the woman above who think they are better than us aren't proving any kind of point, nor convincing anyone by meaninglessly yapping about "patriarchal this", "white that" and "hetero this". We aren't evolving as a society and doing better by arrogantly proselytising to each other and attempting to make meaning out of spur of the moment insults that don't really matter compared to, I don't know, king hits and cheap shots.
@@wades9327 Sounds like you are getting your knickers in a knot about someone who is actually affected by this sharing their experience. Unless you don’t mind people using homophobic language to belittle others on the footy field, and as a result making AFL an unsafe place for our queer mates, there really should be no reason you’re upset about the AFL taking this seriously.
Finlayson will probably have issues for the rest of his life, he could have lost friends, lost opportunities etc. Who knows.
❤.. well said..!! I believe there is gay players in the AFL..i am hoping and waiting for the day ( hopefully very soon) when they feel safe and accepted enough to come out.🌈🌈🌈🌈💙💛..
I do think words are very important, especially since meaning carries weight within culture, and either stunts or promotes certain attitudes. However, I think that making a person go and do "Pride in Sport training" is too far. It sounds like an extensive program, given you have to pay for it. I don't think it takes "training" to change a person's attitude, and the fact that it probably has ideological underlinings uncomfortably feels more like forceable brainwashing (although I'm sure it doesn't go that far). What would make more sense was if there was a regulating group which enforced basic equality/respect for all players and I'm sure this would not require some kind of "training" program. Why specifically pride? Of course the LGBTQ community have been subject to a lot of unfounded prejudice, but unfortunately (not entirely their fault), it is now inherently linked to a smothering ideology. I think everyone wants equality, etc. but such demands inevitably restrain other worldviews. For example, Christianity, Judaism, Catholicism, which are all called to tell people about the good news of heaven (in a non-indoctrination manner) are restrained because now one secular worldview claims everyone must keep beliefs to themselves to keep the peace. Yet in doing so, it promotes that very belief and doesn't keep to itself. In Victoria, Christians can't pray with LGBTQ people in public to avoid indoctrination... but surely this is both ineffective and unfair for others of faith? So in summary what I'm saying is that "Pride" training, although well intended, cannot be separated from its ideology, and I think it is dangerously tipping into a wider form of indoctrination.
Not sure what others think, but that's my current take.
If you were to ban or fine football players for making slurs you would be banning 80-90% of all players.
Those words, the F one and also the C one were always used to basically indicate that someone was annoying you in some way. i.e "Stop being a F", and "Stop being a C". It's a casual use of the word and actually probably represents 90% of their use. Same also applies to the "W" word, rhymes with anchor.
Personally I don't use any of those words, but I know how they're used. The AFL to say that Finlayson or the other guy "used a homophobic slur" in my opinion have to prove that the person is homophobic (hates gay people), and that their use of the word was more than just that casual usage. So if the players just says "Stop being a (insert any of those words", especially in context or them doing something, I don't see any issue with it.
If a player says something more like "I know you're a _______, you disgust me, people like you shouldn't be on the field, or shouldn't live" then that's when it's an issue. That's how I see it. Honestly I think people need to grow up :P
I thought the F word was "Finals".
Hence why no Essendon players were mentioned 😂
For me I don’t disagree players should be punished but it seems completely arbitrary how punishments are dealt out, there’s been 3 examples of the behaviour and 3 different punishments given.
But perhaps inconsistency is already rife throughout the afl officiating and sanctions so 🤷♂️
So they should in a work place they would get fired. They are employers of the club. I have no issue with them losing games.
Don’t forget Aussie rules haters mainly soccer and rugby league fans love the word GAYFL insult to throw at the sport as well it doesn’t help which means the current generation at least for the AFL states will grow up knowing those slurs are bad compared to the fans of other spots who hate Aussie rules
I'm going to no doubt be an outlier here, but I honestly do think that the pendulum has swung too far the other way. Yes, it's poor conduct, but five weeks is utterly overboard. We have gay teachers boasting about indoctrinating kids and "making them gay" and this kind of attitude only emboldens such arrogant attitudes. Imagine if they were talking about making kids Christian or enforcing straightness? As for the "safe workplace" perspective, come on. These guys work in a high pressure environment in which physical injury is a common occurrence but one word is enough to make them feel "unsafe".
Spare me.
Stop making excuses for hurtful behaviour. We all know that words can hurt people. You’re not tough for pretending they don’t. Grow up.
@@AJHornet1 How do you know it was "hurtful"? Do you know the player involved? Stop trying to inflate your own ego by getting offended on behalf of others and take your own advice. Grow up.
There’s no such thing as “teachers boasting about indoctrinating kids and making them gay.” Ironically enough you are indoctrinated to believe such bs like that.
Absolute drivel. There is no threat to straight people in the way there is for queer people. Homophobic language is hurtful to queer fans of the AFL, who would not feel welcome if this was permissible, and obviously since there has never been an AFL player to come out as gay, they do not feel safe to do so. Just like how we shouldn’t accept racist language, homophobia shouldn’t be copped too.
We have gay teachers boasting about indoctrinating kids and "making them gay"
1. You can’t make someone gay
2. Do you have any evidence of this other than some post by the daily wire on twitter or Facebook
What do you call ciggies and smokes then?
What you just called them
@@carlton0124 My man isn't too bright, is he?
Blokes get 1 week for sucker punching an opponent in the back of the head, yet you get 4-6 weeks for calling someone a name.
Yeah that makes NO SENSE
Correct, the punch should be punished higher also. I assume that's what you mean anyway.
Very well said mate. Unfortunately in the modern world of online discourse and social media, there is little room for nuance in many topics of discussion.
I think everything you bought up, especially your personal anecdotes points to the futility of the AFL punishing players. This will not achieve their aims. The thing that made you change the words that you use was a personal, one on one discussion. Not a public shaming. If there is genuine hurt from a comment that somebody made then put them in a room and let them talk it through. If that player understands the other guy then he will change how he acts in a genuine way rather than getting "punished" and then resenting the whole process and probably mumbling gay slurs under his breath for the next year or more.
I think you're right there.
I agree that's probably the best way to reform the individual player. The punishment is maybe more about setting an example to other players and supporters that this isn't something tolerated in the game anymore.
Likening using the F word with the C word in Australian culture will never make sense to me.
Different words for different contexts. Not something we should throw out in professional contexts but I just don't know. I really don't like you can cop a massively longer suspension saying naughty stuff than a dangerous tackle.
Feels wrong.
It is wrong
@@TheGunmanChannel Agreed
What context is belittling someone for their sexual orientation OK? Completely disingenuous comment and you should be ashamed of yourself.
I don’t think anyone has a problem with the C word?
@@gwilkes5325 Nor should they, it's why I find the conflation kinda odd.
Nice try, but you'll never convince me that the horrible word in question is a cause for anything more than a reprimand, with escalation for repeat offences by the individual.
As for the 'f' word being a horrible word: how about the 'g' word? Am I to be punished if I call someone 'gay' (whether they are or not)? Rainbow-person? Pride-marcher?
How about if I use a word that implies a person is heterosexual? (whether they are or not).
In my frame of reference, I think the 'p' word leaves the 'f' word for dead.
Speaking of "in what workplace would ... (etc)", I ask: in what workplace do I forcefully throw my weight at my workplace-colleague? The concept of workplace safety has a different meaning in a contact sport. Antagonism and contained hostility is what makes the game what it is.
The AFL, like many contemporary organisations, is scared of the gay rights advocates; those open-minded paragons of reasonableness. It's that simple.
You call gay people “gay” because that’s what they are, you don’t call them a slur. It’s the same as how you call black people “black”, and not the n word. Shit take 😂
And just because one word is worse, it doesn’t lessen the impact of the 1st word. Another shit take
And no one gets offended as a straight person because that’s normal, it’s expected. If you do get affected, it’s likely because you don’t like gay people anyway.
People getting hurt over words is so unreal, sticks and stones may break my bones words will never hurt me
Such an unbelievably shit take
Shit take
Have you seen the latest sucide stats words matter.
@@coolcoconuts4453I would rather have broken bones. Then get some of the verbal of use that I've dealt with.
I am certain there are words that hurt you mate
5 WEEKS IS OUTRAGEOUS! Woke patrol taking over the game, it’s obviously not nice to swear at people, but man, this is bonkers.
Grow up, it’s only 5 because it needs to make an impact. Can’t do that handing out fines. As someone else in the comment section said, “For every kid that says it, another kid hears it” it’s not nice to be discriminated against for something you can’t control.
@@gwilkes5325 For context, Barry Hall got 7 weeks for destroying Brent Staker and having a woeful record at the tribunal. Every single game, players and teams are mouthing off to each other? 5 weeks is ridiculous. I did say earlier “ it’s not nice”, I’m not saying it’s great. But 5???
@@JonathonJamesWilliams Trying to stamp it out of the game, and hopefully, stop more people from saying it
@@JonathonJamesWilliams Barry Hall hit a bloke in 2008 and got 7 weeks, what does that have to do with a suspension 16 years later?
I won't stop watching but f@# isn't a 'horrific word'
I can’t tell if you’re too young to know which f word this video is about, or too immature to understand it is a horrific word
Uh yeah it is
The word isn’t “F*ck” it’s “F*ggot”. It’s a horrible, outdated word that is extremely offensive to a large group of people
I’m not sure why players are getting so upset. Yeah it’s not cool but if you don’t let it bother you. They’re only words said by sad pathetic individuals
Ignorance in the face of evil, is evil itself. It breeds more. I’d imagine a few players know someone who’d be affected by this and knows that letting it go is doing no one any favours.
Whole culture in this country is just following suit on the agenda. Soft Australian 👏
What?
People are to soft its just a word, it's not racism no where near what Tex walker said
“its just a word” bro using your logic tex ‘just said a word’
Educate yourself mate @Tom-rl9lj
look up 9K111
5 weeks for saying one word, meanwhile Maynard 0 weeks for ending a guys career 🙃
Yeah I've gone off Maynard because of that unlikeable prick
He kinda addressed that in the video....
i think this is fair and i understand where you're coming from, but if you think that, then the problem is that the maynard decision wasn't harsh enough. the problem isn't with the powell sanction. if you were just talking about general inconsistencies in the tribunal, i would agree with you (see hamish brayshaw's recent comments for an example of this). it's just that by directly comparing the two cases, it kind of dismisses the issue homophobia in the AFL, even if that wasn't intentional.