Just got a used agricola 1st ed, i studied the rules for few days before and played with my wife. I can't believe she beat me. Her winning strategy; get things that make the farmyard look cute.
I got Agricola and Caverna about the same time. I found that I preferred Agricola for several reasons. It has a lower barrier to entry. It is simply easier to teach and pick up. Agricola is far superior as a solo game, which matters to me, and the theme integration is better. Caverna's strengths simply didn't come out as much in the settings and groups I have, so it was traded away. I appreciate the side by side comparison, and while they are very similar there are differences that can help you decide which is right for you.
Agricola is very easy to learn and teach. You can pretty much teach it to someone over the course of the game with very little explanation up front. It does an amazing job of giving you very few options to worry about to begin with, gradually opening up as the game develops. Almost like how a video game works. It’s the restrictions that make Agricola so intense and challenging, rather than just pure complexity, and that makes it a brilliant design.
Great content! I really liked how you compared and contrasted these two games and then boiled it down to whether one prefers perfect information vs. hidden information. I liked this style of video because it forced me, the viewer, to think about what I would like rather than if I trust your opinions. I really think you're on to something with this style of video.
Andy Reimer thanks Andy! I hope to do more very soon. I have a review of Great Western Trail coming tomorrow shot visually in this style, but alas only one game.
Just when I thought it was impossible to like Bryan's videos more than I already do, he drops the Jannetty/Michaels Barber Shop reference. Please do more videos!
I like both games, but I think my preference is by far for Agricola. Caverna attempts to make each game different by giving you so many options that you literally can't do them all, so you just select what you want to do, but you could play each game the same. Agricola is different because of the cards. The cards have a huge impact on the game (I recommend drafting) and make each game different. I also like that Agricola does allow you to do everything, even if you can't delve as deep into each area as you would like.
Indeed, the cards make Agricola much more interesting. They're the sort of thing I would have liked to see in Caverna and Ora et Labora. Unfortunately the feeling of having the same setup every time made me skip the former and ditch the latter.
I agree that the cards make Agricola interesting. But for me, the main plus for Caverna is the fact that you can specialise in a specific strategy, whereas Agricola forces you to do everything. And I like it that everything in Caverna is possible from turn 1, in Agricola you're already halfway the game before you can get your first stone, not to talk about cows, where you have to scramble to get one before the end of the game and get negative points for it. Would it not be possible to put the basis buildings on the board, and give everyone up to 3 random buildings from the ones that otherwise would not have made it in the game?
Daniel King Can you play Chess the same way, every time? Of course not, because you have an opponent. If you use superior strategy in one game of Caverna, your opponent will try to beat you to that strategy the next time. Uniqueness of rooms is here to force you to adapt.
I've done an extensive research on these two for my first Rosenberg game. And i decided on Agricola. I love the pressure of feeding your family and the start of the game that you make a strategy out of your hand of cards! Caverna seems too sandbox-y for my tastes. I haven't regreted my decision. But it's cool that Rosenberg listened to all the people criticising Agricola and made a game that suits those people too!
TheGunslinger019 that's the thing though is that fans of Caverna will unintentionally demonize Agricola. I love that desperate feeling to feed your family. It's a "light" themed game, but it's actually a dark concept lol.
Agricola is more pressure, yes. I actually think though that Caverna is a great gateway game for getting people into playing Agricola. Once you get a player hooked on Agricola, they usually would rather play that over Caverna, from my experiences anyway.
TheLethalDiva I think Caverna is more intimidating to the new player than Agricola with all those room tiles available from the get go even for the light game... In Agricola if you teach the new players that the game is focused on feeding your family first and then on getting more points they usually have a smooth ride.
I've played Agricola multiple times, and won twice. I understand the strategies, and I do enjoy the game. However Agricola forces you to take certain actions and limits your choices, in order to prevent negative points. This is especially true because it is a worker placement game. If multiple people take actions to get food that you needed to get food, it can really limit or prevent your choices in also feeding your people. It's a game where your opponents can really mess you up, intentionally or not. It just isn't a very good feeling for me. I don't like being so limited down to just one possible choice on my turn so often. Caverna is the opposite of this, though it can have way too many choices. I just find Caverna more "fun", but I do understand why Agricola is exciting to play on occasion.
Agricola itself is the better game, but if you add the farmers of the moore expansion the comparison is not even close it dominates caverna in every way.
Two questions: 1. Would someone with limited shelf space find these games distinct enough to own both? I own and love Caverna but I've never actually played Agricola (although I do own All Creatures Big and Small). 2. Have you played Trickerion? It's a worker placement game about stage illusionists so maybe it's a bit too on the nose... ;)
Taylor Lovell I am dying to try Trickerion. As far as shelf space being the factor it might be worth trying a physical copy, but definitely check out the app.
Thanks for the heads up! Unfortunately I'm an Android man and I can't find Agricola on the Google Play store. I'll find a way. I'm a big fan of Trickerion so I would highly recommend it!
Yes, absolutely. I own and play both. But IMO, Agricola is by far the superior of the two. People often see the similarities and think that Caverna is basically Agricola 2.0, but not so, there are several key differences between the two games. 1) Agricola has drafting with lots and lots of cards. The drafting is amazing, you basically draft these various cards before you play and each card is like an advantage or cheat that could potentially help you in the game and influence how you play that particular game. A good player will often build cool combos with the cards they drafted. The end result is a completely amazing and unpredictable experience with no two games of Agricola ever being the same. Caverna uses tiles which everyone has access to. Its basically first come, first serve. There are multiple ways to win, but because the game never changes its very easy to get stuck into a pattern where the same buildings and combos are chosen every game, leading to situations where the players are fighting over the same combo or just trying to deny it from their opponent. Also from my experience its much easier for people to get burned out with Caverna, since it is a static experience. Although for me personally, I'm always willing to get into a game of either. Agricola probably being my first choice though TBH. 2) Agricola is much harsher game than Caverna. And this a good thing. Agricola is like Dungeon Lords, its controlled chaos. Caverna is more for the casual player. The scores are relatively low in Agricola (40-60 for a good player), losing 3 points per begging card is a devastating hit that basically ensures you lose the game. Moreover, food is harder to get in Agricola: animals can't be eaten without a cooking instrument and grains and vegetables only convert to one food each if eaten raw (what this translates to is in Agricola its much more important to plan ahead). In Caverna, all animals and grain can be converted directly into "cooked" food (e.g. 1 sheep = 2 food) by default, although certain improvements can increase the efficiency even higher. Also, since scores in Caverna are much higher (80+), losing 3 points per begging card is a smaller hit. 3) Agricola encourages diversification, while Caverna supports specialization. This comes down to the scoring system: in Agricola, the most you can every get for any one category of good is 4 points. Your 5th vegetable or 9th grain are worthless, for example. Thus, to get a lot of points, you're encouraged to max out a lot of categories. This can be alleviated by cards, however. Since the scores in Agricola tend to be low and each family member is worth 3 points, the family growth strategy is strong enough that it's almost unbalanced, and fighting over family growth is essentially half the game. In Caverna, there is no hard cap to the amount of points you can get from one category. One vegetable is worth one point regardless of whether it's your 1st or 21st. This allows specialization. Additionally, since the scores are much higher and the fact that each family member is worth only 1 point, the family growth strategy is more in line with the other strategies. The adventuring mechanism also helps balance this out--if you only have a few family members each with a strong weapon, then you can quickly take all the strong adventure spots without waiting for all your unarmed members to go first. One action where you place a family member with a strong weapon on a good adventure spot can be worth several actions where you place several unarmed family members on several spaces.
I'm way behind on these games because i got into the hobby just 2 years ago, but family loves farming style games. we bought agricola revised edition and will learn it today. I think I may end up getting both games and upgrading both of course.
I've played maybe 5 or 6 games of Caverna and 40+ games of Agricola, and even though I do like Caverna, I undoubtedly prefer Agricola 'cause I feel the former too much of a sandbox experience, while the latter, I feel it as a more narrowy and streamlined experience, but more intricate at the same time.
It makes me so sad that Caverna won't get expansions, I like the open nature of tiles in it so its my one of choice too. Plenty other Uwe goodness for me to play with though in his other games :-)
thanks I already saw it on pre-order in the uk in meeplescorner.co.uk and if it's more than something weird like a number of players expansion then I am probably in.
I like the side by side. Funnily enough it is the theme of Agricola that draws me in. Farming is the livelihood of many of my neighbors and as such has an appeal for me. I am a bit concerned about the game weight. With all the cards and bits I'm concerned that I might not be able to get it to the table if I bought it. Any thoughts or ideas on that? Thanks
When I played Agricola with my group, the mood was tense, you could destroy someone's game by choosing an action. Then you'd have to finish the 2-3 hours gamr knowing you had no chance of winning. Caverna is not as tight, you have much more options. The rubies and expeditions adds much more flexibility to get out of trouble but makes the game feel more casual, not as serious competition. Still my goal is to have a fun time with my friend, Caverna offers the same mecanic satisfactions, not the same level of competition, but is more likely to have everyone smilling at the end .. it's just the winner himself won't get the same level of dopamine peak from his victory because the reason why he won won't be as clear and impressive
Caverna tried to be Agricola 2.0 and failed. The only reason (even years down the line) it still has a reputation of being an "improvement" is simply the rise of a trend in euro games where a player always needs to feel rewarded, even when they're effectively doing badly. Getting slightly smaller amounts of points feels far less punishing than getting NEGATIVE points, especially when coupled with thematic harshness of causing a family to starve and being forced to beg for food. In Agricola the player is openly motivated to invest actual effort in order to avoid negative consequences, and that's a big no-no; a cosy, comfortable feel-good gameplay of doing random stuff should take priority over, well, actually engaging gameplay, because you just can't have players getting immediate feedback that their strategy maybe isn't working that great, that's just rude. Let them figure that out during the boring point-tallying phase, far past the point where anyone cares anymore. So in short, despite initial appraisals and meteoric rise to BGG #1, Agricola was quickly deemed too "stressful and punishing" and unfairly got pushed to the sidelines, letting its watered down bloated cousin take its place, boring potential euro fans to death for years to come. But hey, no evil begging cards knocking those points down slightly! :)
I got interested in these because someone said you can do anything in Agricola, so I'm looking at these games and Caverna having 50 card tile choices and they're all brown with black text (hard to read) I feel overwhelmed and I know if I do everybody else in my game group will for sure..... So I'm not really sure how to go forward with this.
@@user-sl4sx6dp4c In Caverna, there is no variation in the setup and there are so many paths you can choose from that it feels like a sandbox. In Agricola, my group drafts the cards ( occupations first, then minor improvements) to reduce any advantages from luck of the draw and increase everyone's ability to combo cards. We also have numerous sets of cards. In my opinion, the cards are what sets Agricola on a pedestal, way above Caverna.
Awesome video!! Love both games, Agricola is my jam, but Caverna is a game I love as well. Get ready for the Uwe Rosenberg haters that will dislike this great video haha. Don't worry about them :D
This was the first time I had seen Caverna explained, and watching forests removed to raise cattle made me think of the CO2 currently being released to the atmosphere by burning down Amazonian rain forests to raise cattle. Also, digging into the Earth for resources puts to mind the horrific environmental impacts from mining. I venture to say that anyone concerned about the climate crisis would rather think about the fundamental need for food and shelter, without being reminded of all the wrong ways we get there, and would buy Agricola! That's what I, at 87, will do. Just my thoughts . . .
I still had no chance to try Caverna so i thought this video would be interesting to watch... but based on what you said, it seems like you played Caverna 2-3 times and only opened box of Agricola so far... Both of these games deserve to be "seriously" played 5-10 times before you try to compare them...
Bojan Tonkovic not sure where you got that impression from at all. We've played Caverna many many times especially solo. Agricola we've also played as well as playing the app.
i got that impression from the fact that most of comparison looks like "whats in the box" video. Not being sure (5:05) how many workers you can have per room or do you get more points for 1 or 2 pastures (8:43), which are crucial for strategy, lets me know that you either played it once casualy or that you played it long time ago... (i guess you also said some rules wrong for caverna too, but i cant be sure) Also, you did (only) mention "minor upgrades" and occupations but were not shown in video, and thats the biggest difference between these 2 (as far as i know) Alot of time was spent on "you can plow, sow, reproduce animals, stack like this or that" which is common for both games. I expected analysis about game depth, complexity of decisions, gameplay experience and with just vague mention of "perfect information" vs "hidden information" i still have no clue if caverna would be worth to try. I am not Agricola fan boy, I came here to be encouraged to buy Caverna Long story short, I feel comparison conclusion should not be buy this one cause you can play other on the app... but maybe i am wrong, and these two games are just too similar to each other... I hope you didnt take anything of this wrong way, these were just my impressions...
Bojan Tonkovic oh no not at all. I'm glad you took the time to respond. My main focus was showing the certain aspects of design as well as play, but yeah I did mention the major difference vs. showing. As far as the rule about keeping workers in the house it was after I was talking about you can keep a pair of animals in your Caverna house. That's what I was referring to not the workers. But thank you though for adding this because it definitely does help others. The only thing I know I didn't mention in Caverna is that the harvests are random.
Holy cow was this video a mess. There are so many times where he got the rules wrong or mis-explained how cards/tiles work or couldn't remember the rules of the game. Really below expectation for quality of videos from The Dice Tower, if you ask me.
@@christophersobczak1101I agree. It was obvious that Bryan had played caverna, but had little or no experience of playing agricola. So his conclusion was very wrong. This is also proven by the overwhelming support of agricola in the comments section.
Just got a used agricola 1st ed, i studied the rules for few days before and played with my wife. I can't believe she beat me. Her winning strategy; get things that make the farmyard look cute.
Cris Tanyag to be fair that's a great strategy lol!
My wife does the same thing, lol, and she wins often, too!
you have amazing timing, i'm currently trying to figure out which one of these to invest into. this video helps a lot :)
Neadric that's what I'm here for ;)
I got Agricola and Caverna about the same time. I found that I preferred Agricola for several reasons. It has a lower barrier to entry. It is simply easier to teach and pick up. Agricola is far superior as a solo game, which matters to me, and the theme integration is better. Caverna's strengths simply didn't come out as much in the settings and groups I have, so it was traded away. I appreciate the side by side comparison, and while they are very similar there are differences that can help you decide which is right for you.
This is just quite simply not true, or you are playing the games wrong.
Agricola is very easy to learn and teach. You can pretty much teach it to someone over the course of the game with very little explanation up front. It does an amazing job of giving you very few options to worry about to begin with, gradually opening up as the game develops. Almost like how a video game works. It’s the restrictions that make Agricola so intense and challenging, rather than just pure complexity, and that makes it a brilliant design.
@@timsmith3119 He gave his opinion on it. It is 100% true. It might not match your opinion but yours is a incorrect statement and gave no reasoning.
@timsmith3119 no, i agree with everything stated.
Great content! I really liked how you compared and contrasted these two games and then boiled it down to whether one prefers perfect information vs. hidden information. I liked this style of video because it forced me, the viewer, to think about what I would like rather than if I trust your opinions. I really think you're on to something with this style of video.
Andy Reimer thanks Andy! I hope to do more very soon. I have a review of Great Western Trail coming tomorrow shot visually in this style, but alas only one game.
Just when I thought it was impossible to like Bryan's videos more than I already do, he drops the Jannetty/Michaels Barber Shop reference. Please do more videos!
Leedguitar2 it's one of my most traumatizing moments as a child. They were friends!
That was the best lol
I like both games, but I think my preference is by far for Agricola. Caverna attempts to make each game different by giving you so many options that you literally can't do them all, so you just select what you want to do, but you could play each game the same. Agricola is different because of the cards. The cards have a huge impact on the game (I recommend drafting) and make each game different. I also like that Agricola does allow you to do everything, even if you can't delve as deep into each area as you would like.
Indeed, the cards make Agricola much more interesting. They're the sort of thing I would have liked to see in Caverna and Ora et Labora. Unfortunately the feeling of having the same setup every time made me skip the former and ditch the latter.
I agree that the cards make Agricola interesting. But for me, the main plus for Caverna is the fact that you can specialise in a specific strategy, whereas Agricola forces you to do everything. And I like it that everything in Caverna is possible from turn 1, in Agricola you're already halfway the game before you can get your first stone, not to talk about cows, where you have to scramble to get one before the end of the game and get negative points for it.
Would it not be possible to put the basis buildings on the board, and give everyone up to 3 random buildings from the ones that otherwise would not have made it in the game?
Daniel King Can you play Chess the same way, every time? Of course not, because you have an opponent. If you use superior strategy in one game of Caverna, your opponent will try to beat you to that strategy the next time. Uniqueness of rooms is here to force you to adapt.
I've done an extensive research on these two for my first Rosenberg game. And i decided on Agricola. I love the pressure of feeding your family and the start of the game that you make a strategy out of your hand of cards! Caverna seems too sandbox-y for my tastes. I haven't regreted my decision. But it's cool that Rosenberg listened to all the people criticising Agricola and made a game that suits those people too!
TheGunslinger019 that's the thing though is that fans of Caverna will unintentionally demonize Agricola. I love that desperate feeling to feed your family. It's a "light" themed game, but it's actually a dark concept lol.
Agricola is more pressure, yes. I actually think though that Caverna is a great gateway game for getting people into playing Agricola.
Once you get a player hooked on Agricola, they usually would rather play that over Caverna, from my experiences anyway.
TheLethalDiva I think Caverna is more intimidating to the new player than Agricola with all those room tiles available from the get go even for the light game... In Agricola if you teach the new players that the game is focused on feeding your family first and then on getting more points they usually have a smooth ride.
I've played Agricola multiple times, and won twice. I understand the strategies, and I do enjoy the game. However Agricola forces you to take certain actions and limits your choices, in order to prevent negative points. This is especially true because it is a worker placement game. If multiple people take actions to get food that you needed to get food, it can really limit or prevent your choices in also feeding your people. It's a game where your opponents can really mess you up, intentionally or not. It just isn't a very good feeling for me. I don't like being so limited down to just one possible choice on my turn so often. Caverna is the opposite of this, though it can have way too many choices. I just find Caverna more "fun", but I do understand why Agricola is exciting to play on occasion.
Agricola itself is the better game, but if you add the farmers of the moore expansion the comparison is not even close it dominates caverna in every way.
Matt I still have to get it!
Two questions:
1. Would someone with limited shelf space find these games distinct enough to own both? I own and love Caverna but I've never actually played Agricola (although I do own All Creatures Big and Small).
2. Have you played Trickerion? It's a worker placement game about stage illusionists so maybe it's a bit too on the nose... ;)
Taylor Lovell I am dying to try Trickerion. As far as shelf space being the factor it might be worth trying a physical copy, but definitely check out the app.
Thanks for the heads up! Unfortunately I'm an Android man and I can't find Agricola on the Google Play store. I'll find a way. I'm a big fan of Trickerion so I would highly recommend it!
Taylor Lovell ah gotcha. It might be in the Steam store but I can't remember now.
Yes, absolutely. I own and play both. But IMO, Agricola is by far the superior of the two. People often see the similarities and think that Caverna is basically Agricola 2.0, but not so, there are several key differences between the two games.
1) Agricola has drafting with lots and lots of cards. The drafting is amazing, you basically draft these various cards before you play and each card is like an advantage or cheat that could potentially help you in the game and influence how you play that particular game. A good player will often build cool combos with the cards they drafted. The end result is a completely amazing and unpredictable experience with no two games of Agricola ever being the same.
Caverna uses tiles which everyone has access to. Its basically first come, first serve. There are multiple ways to win, but because the game never changes its very easy to get stuck into a pattern where the same buildings and combos are chosen every game, leading to situations where the players are fighting over the same combo or just trying to deny it from their opponent. Also from my experience its much easier for people to get burned out with Caverna, since it is a static experience. Although for me personally, I'm always willing to get into a game of either. Agricola probably being my first choice though TBH.
2) Agricola is much harsher game than Caverna. And this a good thing. Agricola is like Dungeon Lords, its controlled chaos. Caverna is more for the casual player. The scores are relatively low in Agricola (40-60 for a good player), losing 3 points per begging card is a devastating hit that basically ensures you lose
the game. Moreover, food is harder to get in Agricola: animals can't be eaten without a cooking instrument and grains and vegetables only convert to one food each if eaten raw (what this translates to is in Agricola its much more important to plan ahead). In Caverna, all animals and grain can be converted directly into "cooked" food (e.g. 1 sheep = 2 food) by default, although certain improvements can increase the efficiency even higher. Also, since scores in Caverna are much higher (80+), losing 3 points per begging card is a smaller hit.
3) Agricola encourages diversification, while Caverna supports specialization. This comes down to the scoring system: in Agricola, the most you can every get for any one category of good is 4 points.
Your 5th vegetable or 9th grain are worthless, for example. Thus, to get a lot of points, you're encouraged to max out a lot of categories. This can be alleviated by cards, however.
Since the scores in Agricola tend to be low and each family member is worth 3 points, the family growth strategy is strong enough that it's almost unbalanced, and fighting over family growth is essentially half the game. In Caverna, there is no hard cap to the amount of points you can get from one category. One vegetable is worth one point regardless of whether it's your 1st or 21st. This allows specialization. Additionally, since the scores are much higher and the fact that each family member is worth only 1 point, the family growth strategy is more in line with the other strategies. The adventuring mechanism also helps balance this out--if you only have a few family members each with a strong weapon, then you can quickly take all the strong adventure spots without waiting for all your unarmed members to go first. One action where you place a family member with a strong weapon on a good adventure spot can be worth several actions where you place several unarmed family members on several spaces.
You can play Agricola for free (along with many other great games) at boiteajeux.net/
Playing the game solo on the site is really fun as well.
Agricola is the better game with infinite playability if you buy a few packs of minor improvements and occupations cards.
Which expansions should I buy first? I have the revised edition. I heard farmers of the moore is the way to go.
I'm way behind on these games because i got into the hobby just 2 years ago, but family loves farming style games. we bought agricola revised edition and will learn it today. I think I may end up getting both games and upgrading both of course.
Thumbs up for the Marty Jannetty reference.
I've played maybe 5 or 6 games of Caverna and 40+ games of Agricola, and even though I do like Caverna, I undoubtedly prefer Agricola 'cause I feel the former too much of a sandbox experience, while the latter, I feel it as a more narrowy and streamlined experience, but more intricate at the same time.
Excellent video, I'm a Caverna owner / player and I don't think I'll get Agricola, pity that there are no plans for Caverna expansions.
It makes me so sad that Caverna won't get expansions, I like the open nature of tiles in it so its my one of choice too.
Plenty other Uwe goodness for me to play with though in his other games :-)
Dave Dogge I definitely agree. I've got Fields of Arle sitting at my house as we speak. I've heard good things.
you should check BGG -> Caverna -> Forum
Expansion coming in 2018 :)
I've seen, developed by the guy that did a factions fan expansion =-). Can't wait!
thanks I already saw it on pre-order in the uk in meeplescorner.co.uk and if it's more than something weird like a number of players expansion then I am probably in.
I like the side by side. Funnily enough it is the theme of Agricola that draws me in. Farming is the livelihood of many of my neighbors and as such has an appeal for me. I am a bit concerned about the game weight. With all the cards and bits I'm concerned that I might not be able to get it to the table if I bought it. Any thoughts or ideas on that? Thanks
NICK Van DAM I'd recommend tying the app first honestly for that reason. If you like the feel, it's a 100% faithful adaptation.
When I played Agricola with my group, the mood was tense, you could destroy someone's game by choosing an action. Then you'd have to finish the 2-3 hours gamr knowing you had no chance of winning. Caverna is not as tight, you have much more options. The rubies and expeditions adds much more flexibility to get out of trouble but makes the game feel more casual, not as serious competition. Still my goal is to have a fun time with my friend, Caverna offers the same mecanic satisfactions, not the same level of competition, but is more likely to have everyone smilling at the end .. it's just the winner himself won't get the same level of dopamine peak from his victory because the reason why he won won't be as clear and impressive
I enjoyed this video, Bryan. I'm actually in the decision mode to figure out which to get. Sounds like eventually I'll have both. LOL Cheers
2:13 - LOL man, I just got flashbacks of wrestling my dad and my brother while watching WWF.
Sal Conz yes! So many memories of random wrestling moments pop in to my head from 20 years ago lol.
Caverna tried to be Agricola 2.0 and failed. The only reason (even years down the line) it still has a reputation of being an "improvement" is simply the rise of a trend in euro games where a player always needs to feel rewarded, even when they're effectively doing badly. Getting slightly smaller amounts of points feels far less punishing than getting NEGATIVE points, especially when coupled with thematic harshness of causing a family to starve and being forced to beg for food. In Agricola the player is openly motivated to invest actual effort in order to avoid negative consequences, and that's a big no-no; a cosy, comfortable feel-good gameplay of doing random stuff should take priority over, well, actually engaging gameplay, because you just can't have players getting immediate feedback that their strategy maybe isn't working that great, that's just rude. Let them figure that out during the boring point-tallying phase, far past the point where anyone cares anymore.
So in short, despite initial appraisals and meteoric rise to BGG #1, Agricola was quickly deemed too "stressful and punishing" and unfairly got pushed to the sidelines, letting its watered down bloated cousin take its place, boring potential euro fans to death for years to come. But hey, no evil begging cards knocking those points down slightly! :)
I got interested in these because someone said you can do anything in Agricola, so I'm looking at these games and Caverna having 50 card tile choices and they're all brown with black text (hard to read) I feel overwhelmed and I know if I do everybody else in my game group will for sure..... So I'm not really sure how to go forward with this.
Got both, but if I could keep only one it would easily be Agricola.
how come? I just bought it so keen to know why
@@user-sl4sx6dp4c In Caverna, there is no variation in the setup and there are so many paths you can choose from that it feels like a sandbox. In Agricola, my group drafts the cards ( occupations first, then minor improvements) to reduce any advantages from luck of the draw and increase everyone's ability to combo cards. We also have numerous sets of cards. In my opinion, the cards are what sets Agricola on a pedestal, way above Caverna.
Love the old school wrestling references.
The Barber Shop segment is a Mandela Effect. Shawn didn't kick Marty though the window. He super kicked him and then threw him through the window.
This breaks my heart every time and rewatch every time I realize this.
Awesome video!! Love both games, Agricola is my jam, but Caverna is a game I love as well.
Get ready for the Uwe Rosenberg haters that will dislike this great video haha. Don't worry about them :D
The "you're an embarrassment to society" comment earned my thumbs up
Agricola is better scarcity is better Caverna is Agricola wirh no scarcity this destroys game tension
This was the first time I had seen Caverna explained, and watching forests removed to raise cattle made me think of the CO2 currently being released to the atmosphere by burning down Amazonian rain forests to raise cattle. Also, digging into the Earth for resources puts to mind the horrific environmental impacts from mining. I venture to say that anyone concerned about the climate crisis would rather think about the fundamental need for food and shelter, without being reminded of all the wrong ways we get there, and would buy Agricola! That's what I, at 87, will do. Just my thoughts . . .
Love Agricola.
I have them both. Why not
please make another video review of farmers of the moor expansion
Tim Zetterberg I've got to get my hands on it first but I definitely want those horses.
I still had no chance to try Caverna so i thought this video would be interesting to watch... but based on what you said, it seems like you played Caverna 2-3 times and only opened box of Agricola so far... Both of these games deserve to be "seriously" played 5-10 times before you try to compare them...
Bojan Tonkovic not sure where you got that impression from at all. We've played Caverna many many times especially solo. Agricola we've also played as well as playing the app.
i got that impression from the fact that most of comparison looks like "whats in the box" video.
Not being sure (5:05) how many workers you can have per room or do you get more points for 1 or 2 pastures (8:43), which are crucial for strategy, lets me know that you either played it once casualy or that you played it long time ago... (i guess you also said some rules wrong for caverna too, but i cant be sure)
Also, you did (only) mention "minor upgrades" and occupations but were not shown in video, and thats the biggest difference between these 2 (as far as i know)
Alot of time was spent on "you can plow, sow, reproduce animals, stack like this or that" which is common for both games.
I expected analysis about game depth, complexity of decisions, gameplay experience and with just vague mention of "perfect information" vs "hidden information" i still have no clue if caverna would be worth to try.
I am not Agricola fan boy, I came here to be encouraged to buy Caverna
Long story short, I feel comparison conclusion should not be buy this one cause you can play other on the app... but maybe i am wrong, and these two games are just too similar to each other...
I hope you didnt take anything of this wrong way, these were just my impressions...
Bojan Tonkovic oh no not at all. I'm glad you took the time to respond. My main focus was showing the certain aspects of design as well as play, but yeah I did mention the major difference vs. showing. As far as the rule about keeping workers in the house it was after I was talking about you can keep a pair of animals in your Caverna house. That's what I was referring to not the workers. But thank you though for adding this because it definitely does help others. The only thing I know I didn't mention in Caverna is that the harvests are random.
Agricola is way the better game.
Holy cow was this video a mess. There are so many times where he got the rules wrong or mis-explained how cards/tiles work or couldn't remember the rules of the game. Really below expectation for quality of videos from The Dice Tower, if you ask me.
James Krolak Just twice I believe, but I adjusted them in post. Thanks for watching though.
Geez, cut him some slack. The video was very helpful for what was proposed: comparing the games. Chill out, video was legit.
He also said: 17th century 'French' countryside"....
Makes me sad how wrong this video is...
what's wrong with it? Clearly you can't appreciate Bryan's style of video making
@@rafffalsky the abandoment of Agricola makes me sad...
Such a great game...
Set so many great standards for games...
@@christophersobczak1101I agree. It was obvious that Bryan had played caverna, but had little or no experience of playing agricola. So his conclusion was very wrong. This is also proven by the overwhelming support of agricola in the comments section.