Han SSN Sub Brief
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- Опубліковано 8 гру 2021
- China's unique entry into submarine nuclear propulsion. With Russian advisors and a bathtub toy, they designed a working nuclear submarine.
#han #sub #brief
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Aaron's knowledge of submarines is inversely proportional to his ability to pronounce Chinese and Russian terms ;)
That toy submarine was based on U.S.S. Albacore. An experimental SSK (diesel electric). Us, Americans, cannot keep an effin secret.
Up to 75 men, and a single toilet, good lord. That 4 hrs free time must be spent waiting in line for the toilet as well as the bunks
During one of our Periscope depth evolutions we spotted a Han snorkeling
The MK 48 was caught in a Chinese fisherman's net. it was a training round it took over 7 years the reverse engineer it.
“We caught a big one!”
And how do you know it took them seven years to do this?
@@Venezolano410 may be just took 2 year to reverse engineer it and not been found out until other 5 years . lol
I was with Kitty Hawk BG in 94. I was the LPO of CS2 division aboard USS Crommelin FFG-37 and the undersea warfare specialist for the ship. That Han spent a lot, and I do mean a lot of time on the surface. Our LAMPS dropped so many buoys on Mr. Han and we got some really good tape on the noisy bitch. If one of my old shipmates ever reads this you may recall a little issue with the helo crew not remembering to load some film in their camera. Turned the whole package into Yokosuka when we got there and we ended up getting a MUC for it.
I remember the Kenner toy submarine when I was a kid. You put tablets in a compartment located on the underside of the hull and when you put it in water it would float, then sink to the bottom, and after a while it would surface again by itself. It was pretty cool.
When I was about 12, I somehow got a remote-controlled (not radio-controlled, as there was a connecting wire; this will be important later) toy sub. Took it out to the pond by my house, fooled around with it for a few minutes just off the dock. It was kind of slow though, so I pick it up out of the water with the intention to toss it a bit further from the dock.
I also tossed the controller.
@@trekker105 Bobby why you no smart, why you throw toy in lake. Why you no smart like your older brother... Bobby why you......
@@trekker105 Bobby you had one job.
Kids with subs were the cool kids though. I had a sailing boat. My roleplay games went out of hands when I decided to use it on the mediterranean instead of ponds or large fountains. Maybe it crossed the whole damn sea, I'll never know.
Kind of like the little submarine you would get as a prize in cereal boxes, you took the top off the bottom and packed it with baking soda and put it in water
@@kdrapertrucker and then it would sink your trading convoys?
The shipyard is in LiaoNing province, not HuLuDao province. HuLuDao is a city.
NCC-1701 has a whole new meaning
Thank you for doing a bit on the Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution, many people overlook this and I couldn't have explained it better myself.
As far as I know, the 091 is the noisiest submarine ever.
Noisier than first generation Soviet nuke boats? Good lord. 😆
Great brief. The Chinese military is a fascinating topic. So many under estimate them with comments like they only copy etc etc. I see it more as they copy and develop at the same time.
I really really hope a shooting war never happens as it will set humanity back a minimum of 40 years
LOL, that toilet story for some reason reminded me of that episode of JAG where Colonel McKenzie was on a submarine and a sailor was nervously explaining to her "what to do in the head". Yes, I am in fact one of the few people under the age of 40 who remembers and loved JAG, sue me.
The breakdown in USSR-China relations was primarily as Russia thought it should lead the Communist world as first among equals while China was saying why should we kowtow to Moscow and let them tell us what to do? The differences in communist ideology interpretation also became more of an issue over time. Russia was a revolution by the lower middle class and thought the way to improve peoples lives was to get them out of the fields and into the cities by industrializing as fast as possible, the Chinese communist movement was agricultural led and they believed they should be trying to remove the middle class and increase the number of people living in and working the land as farmers (both approaches led to mass famine from inefficient agricultural practices but the Chinese approach also led to massive environmental degradation as they stripped the lands and plains of forests to found new farming villages exacerbating the dustbowl effect and causing frequent landslides from exposing hillsides as well as polluting the rivers). Both Russia in the 20's/30's and China during the cultural revolution purged the University educated 'Intelligentsia' as they thought they could organize a counter revolution and didnt trust people that spoke funny using long words....
A useful contribution to the forum. Thanks.
@@xsu-is7vq Indeed they did try to industrialize but they kept people living off the land in the countryside, constructing communes and centralising agricultural distribution and through communal food halls and diverted laborers in villages to the production of backyard steel, however the iron and steel produced from these oven sized rudimentary forges was often useless. Land degradation was caused by several policies including planting seedlings six times closer to each other, increasing plowing depth to a foot, overuse of fertilisers, the Four Pests Campaign which focused on mass extermination of pests but also included the creatures that ate the pests in the first place. To hide the mass casualties from starvation officials reported their deaths as due to flooding instead, this led to a mass national program of dam and river bank reinforcement which diverted 2m farmers from the harvest to construction and which flooded fields with the diverted water (Meteorological records show no greater rainfall during the flooding crisis than in normal years).
@@xsu-is7vq Chemical fertilizer use increased 50 fold in 1960, before that they relied on organic fertiliser. The use of chemicals didnt stop increasing, today China uses three times as much phosphate per hectare as the world average but has only average or below average crop yields. As any good gardener will tell you if concentrate too much phosphate in too small an area you burn the plants roots.
@@xsu-is7vq Your assuming they were distributed and used evenly across arable land nationwide in which case they may look small, rather than the reality of being focused in particular crops and locations.
cant they just scuttle the sub if a bathroom accident happens?
Chinese motto "fake it til you make it"
Very minor correction, he was one of the founders of the CCP. He apparently wasn’t present at the very first meeting of the founders, but was at the second. The Long March was something that cemented Maos leadership of the CCP with his 8th route army.
But well done with the Chinese pronunciations, too many UA-camrs mangle it, but you’ve done pretty good there. 👍 just the occasional odd one :)
Excellent as always. Very educational. Thank you.
**it hits the fan has a new meaning when they blow the sewage into the bathroom instead of out of the bathroom. lol but if youve ever seen a toliet in china then to them its like any public toliet theyve been into. lol
Excellent review! Thank you!
Ok so indigenous Chinese military projects actually means "Copy" their systems. Lol
2x4 hours of sleep instead of 8? isnt that like really really weird and you get exhausted really fast?
Not really. I had a period during quarantine when I would sleep from 17-21 & 02-06. That worked fine except for finding a time to meet with others ;)
Nice briefs! You should do one on the German U206 and 209 class, very popular models in post WW2
30:11 that guy in the back looks like the most British Chinese guy ever.
Great to get a heads up on toilet arrangements.
Honestly, using a bath toy to construct a war machine is not a bad idea, good on them for finding, utilizing, and succeeding with an ambitious design. Now, stop stealing our designs.
when they stop to copy,that's when you have to worry... if is a copy it means they're lagging
If you are keep thinking they always copying, then you could miss out a lot.
@@jxmai7687 who said always?
@@michaelkaylor6770 If, mean not you
Why should they stop? Intellectual property is silly and antiquated and should be moved past. Capitalism as a whole should be too. They should take whatever the best design out there is and modify for their own needs, that's how everything should be done, in an open source model.
I think I heard somewhere that the Chinese ended up capturing a dud Mk. 48 that was used on a training mission in the Pacific, which China was shadowing, which led to the reverse engineering of the torp.
If I remember correctly, a Chinese fishing vessel caught one in their net.
@@patrickm.4754 That's it!
It's Sidewinder situation all the way again.
Looking at the naval museum where the 401 is now leads to a interesting discovery about this story as she is at the opposite end from the Project 7 DD (which is Russian) that was transferred to the Chinese Navy post WW2
long march seems to be a popular name with these big projects.
I think you may have missed 80,000,000 murdered under Mao.
6 times as many as Stalin, 12 times as many as Hitler!
I recall I think it might've been in Smarter Every Day's series during ICEX that American submarines can also have the sanitary tanks turn into toilet volcanoes if the "flush" valve is opened during the blowing procedure
nvm you clearly know
also it seems that Chinese fisherman caught a Mark 48 in the 80's and it was reverse engineered from there
Why no lockout link between the flush control and the valve back up to the bathroom???
Only one 091 SSN is still in service, the #5 hull built in 1990. But she is serving as a trainer instead of patrol duty.
18:00 1701... look its enterprise disguised as chinese submarine
Exactly what I was thinking. I wonder how many heads bounced when the brass hats realised that they were using the Enterprise's RegNo. 🤣🤣
4 work - 4 jog - 4 sleep. Crazy shift schedule. People are getting little sleep or get used to living in 12 hour day.
1701? as project number? LOL! There were some Star Trek fans in China!
36:00 "Those person are very brave"
I think you will be brave when you don't have much options
1701? NCC-1701? I wonder if there was a STAR TREK fan in there.
Gene Roddenberry was a huge fan of Han submarines. And Szechuan beef. Szechuan beef cooked with a 90Mw PWR reactor on a Han submarine.
its interesting how we were having the red scare china was having a "blue scare". just shows the high tensions between ideologies during that time i guess
@@Kayzef2003 how deep in the sand has your head been buried the last 50 years?
You are a content machine, jesus.
Wanted to comment exactly this lol
Very interesting development process for this submarine for sure. I think it's funny how much of an improvement the french sonar was, I'd think China would be able to steal and reverse engineer an American or Soviet system...
Awesome video as always, keep up the great work!
The can now since the USN left a sonar dome at the bottom of the south China sea a month or two ago.
@@tnarggrant9711 na, look like just lost part of the upper cover.
Chinese submarines. A submersible superfund site with its own continuously playing heavy metal band.
A+
so when can we expect 3D printed subs? 10-15 years?
Thanks for selling them all the tech France!
No doubt there was a backhander involved, seems to be the way France does business. The French got caught out with the sale of the Lafayette class to Taiwan, and I think there is some concern over the sale of Mirages to India. Then there is the Agosta class to Pakistan, the Attack class to Australia, etc.
France is pretty much willing to sell it’s military gear to anyone.
Meanwhile US arming terrorists
Minute 33:30 A submerged submarine in the territorial waters of another country, commits an act of war, according to international law.
Wow, that Cultural Revolution bit sounds familiar...
Yep, the US culture war is pretty much our own cultural revolution.
@@leileijoker8465 Yup except instead of canceling the educated intellectuals, we got tired to uneducated idiots thinking they knew better then everyone else; we saw what it got the USSR and China so we are making sure to not equate stupidity with patriotism like they did.
Yup make sure to get lots of ammo
Eatin chinese food while listening to a Chinese sub brief... completely unplanned... but appropriate. lol
I have a different interpretation of the Chinese culture revolution. The root cause of the movement, was that Mao was exploring a new type of communist government that, instead of dictatorship, the executive branch of the government could be controlled by the people directly.
The soviet style government has absolute power, leading to absolute corruption and bureaucracy. There is no efficient check and balance mechanism. Mao saw these problems in Khrushchev and Brezhnev's USSR. Mao also noticed similar things in China after 15 years of governing the country. Note that even though Mao was extremely influential at the time, he was the party leader, not the government leader. Mao believed that the Chinese government officials were increasingly isolated from the masses and could not make decisions based on actual situations on the ground. In fact, many of these officials were good generals back in the Chinese civil war, but lacked proper training and the mindset as public servants. So Mao wanted to revolutionize the government by allowing and mobilizing the masses to overturn the ruling officials when the people do not like what the government does. Mao believed this could be a proper counter to the almighty but corrupted executive branch of the government. And this movement could become the check and balance system the communist Chinese government needs. In the culture revolution, Mao repeatedly said in public that, "Rebellion is justified! Revolution legitimated", "I would run militia warfare against the government if the government did not listen". That’s democracy in Mao’s mind. That’s Mao’s vision of a government of the people, by the people, for the people.
Mao believed the reason the government officials became corrupted was that they were affected by capitalism. Therefore, Mao emphasized the communist ideology in the culture revolution. This later was pushed to the extreme by Mao's followers that "Anything from the Western world was poisonous", and anything that was not communist had no future. That's why former generals (now government officials) and intellectuals were persecuted and traditional Chinese culture was considered outdated and taboo. However, many of the “problems” were Mao's perception. Ironically, it was Mao who became aloof from the masses. Therefore, his social experiment failed miserably. And the culture revolution ended up disastrously.
As the saying goes, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
That's nice, but no accurate.
The cultural revolution was from the communist idiom that "morals are a tool the bourgeoisie uses to keep the proletariat subservient." That is to say, you're poor because you're polite. The implication being that the rich aren't and use money to stay above the law. Even the bible, sort of, says this when Jesus said dont treat the rich better than the poor. Isnt it the rich that drag you into court?
The upshot is that Mao, and others, came to the hard hearted conclusion that it was Chinese culture that kept it industrially lagging behind the west leading to "the century of humiliation." If China was to be a respected power that mindset had to go. Of course you cant change a cultural mind set with a decree. Especially one among people that are more invested in heritage than a central government. Like rural farmers. As a result, for example, when the one child policy came down they defaulted to the agrarian philosophy of "better a dog than a daughter" (actual Chinese saying btw) and aborted the girls in favor of having a son. The rational being that a son and his wife, will take over the farm and care for you once you are too old to work while a daughter will get married and take care of someone else's family.
This has lead to the catastrophic population imbalance and aging problem they are now facing.
Very interesting. Thanks for posting your take.
Mao is not a dictatorship, Chinese culture revolution is let the people have the power, but end up lost control.
I wonder if Rickover's White Helmets came aboard this boat and inspected per standards for then contemporary Sturgeon class SSN, what would they find?
A long list of unsat
@@stupidburp Without violating classified SOPs and regs, I do wonder what would a nuke whitehelmet looks for.
Power spikes during operation.
Deviation from startup procedure during startup.
Abnormalities and water chemistry deviation.
Qualifications of watch standers.
Emergency SCRAM of powerplant without power surges.
Functionality of heat exchangers in steam plant.
Functionality of battery plant and electric distribution systems.
ocean pressure pipe integrity
Ballast tanks and trim systems function.
i
French gave top tier weapons... major fail 🥺
Been to Bohai shipyard 40 years ago when I was a kid and was visiting my aunt and uncle at Huludao, saw one of the hulls in the massive assembly hall, and another one floating in the drydock. I was told to stay away from that boat, more out of concern of radiation than anything else. The north sea fleet had a destroyer detachment moored at the pier next to the shipyard; the area near by was choke full of heavy industrial mills and the sea around Huludao heavily polluted. The hill overlooking the city was topped with an abandoned pillbox left over from the civil war era...
Curious if you say "Island of New Zealand" or "Islands of Great Britain" when discussing countries other than Taiwan?.
NO
@@user-fi2dc4sg9p Exactly, why not say the "Country of Taiwan", as that's what it is?
No, because Taiwan is just the name of the island, the country is still called Republic of China. So it's no problem to state that the government of the Republic of China relocated to the island of Taiwan.
I was on the George Washington (SSBN 598) and some of the photos look a lot like some of the GW equipment. I think they got a little more than a toy from the US and what about the good old French and there help. The USSR got ahold of a Mark 48 in the mid seventies and i'm sure they sold it to China.
94 on Kitty Hawk deployment w/HS-4 in the vicinity of Korea during the Clinton brokered nuke deal with Japan-DPRK-RoK…”Han was around, but never close enough for us in the helo to go play…Did get to get to dip on an Iranian Kilo a few years later in the NAG…Fun:-)
What' s worse ; the life of a Trucker or a Submariner, when it comes to toilets!!
You went really fast from Mao being a peasent to the great leap forward.
Not that you are obliged to follow (or give) history lessons... but, it went fast haha
Personally, since Empire of the Sun, i have a weird love for the logo/flag of the Kuomintang (the whites who fought the communists and retreated to taiwan)
I allways wanted a leather jacket like Christian Bale had in the japanese camp ever since............
Ontopic: the Han is nice. Really loud. Really distinct signature.... but what do i know. I only play Dangerous Waters haha
34:10 Han doesn't have the ability to generate Oxygen under sea? Not even those oxygen candles?
generate oxygen is a thing, generate ENOUGH oxygen is another, and there's also the thing called CO2
I suspect it was more of an issue of cleaning the air of CO2 and other contaminants then of making oxygen.
@@shepherdlavellen3301 CO2 you use tubes of lithium hydroxide to absord it, in subs & spacecraft. Its pretty basic. If you have more then a 0.5 Mwatt of electricity to spare there more then enough to run hotel loads in a nuclear sub of up to 100 crew, that by the way include fresh water, hot water & oxygen from electro degredation of seawater.
What hair ? They all wear caps!
Don't like your neighbor? Just accuse them of being a capitalist, or a witch...
The history lesson was a bit er weird?
Submarine part starts at 9:57 😉
Interesting. But it is somewhat wrong to call USSR - Russia. USSR was a union of republics. Saying Russia ''this or that'' during that timeframe is similar to someone saying ''Texas invaded Iraq'' instead of US.
So where were both Bush and Cheney from? :D
GO ARMY...BEAT NAVY!!!!!!!!!! HOOYAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YJ-8 is not a copy
That part with Huang Xuhua being arressted by a mob somehow reminds me of JAN, 6th 2021 in Washington.
How insanely ironic. Hes the son of “Kulaks” that stalin and mao himself loved to…. “Embrace”
ciao
Should have let Japan have them.
You should probably mention in future videos on China that the Chinese Civil War actually started before WW2 and the nationalists and communists signed a temporary peace to beat the Japanese that the nationalists betrayed. Also Different parts of China were controlled by different people and the Communists did have land in the mountains they controlled from the beginning pretty much
peking university? i suspect thats not english name for it...
Peking is alternative name for Beijing.
@@maticm1 exactly. but i never heard it use from english speaker
im pretty sure that is the english name for it. chinese people call it bei da
It's the old name .
Like Bombay and Mumbai
Start by saying I love what you do and will continue to support as able regardless of differing opinions/ outlooks/ interpretation. You have always struck me as someone with positive intent and a genuine curiosity/ dedication in search of truth.
It's relatively minor, but your commentary relating to the cultural revolution and communism stuck out mostly for their uncharacteristic generalisation, brevity, and total lack of the usual skeptism with which you've been pretty diligent at maintaining.
It's not that movements such as the cultural revolution weren't reprehensible by nature. It's that you naively chalked up a series of events spanning more than a decade with a quip insuating it's cause as unambiguous and simply a product of "communism" generally.
It's history, and it's a series of events, policies, etc enacted respectively over many years. And though all these disparate, related events can all be described as parts of the cultural revolution, the relatively cannot be assumed valid applied in the other direction. I can't say x happened because it was (during) the cultural revolution with any acceptable level of confidence. To do so is to simplify messy, human history into neat categories characterized by throw away motifs (which are at best described as convenient "book ends" to some (often arbitrary) period in history and culture).
The causes resulting in those events in that period were each unique in their makeup. Policy consequences are the easiest to track, but similar to sub casualties, such turmoil is most often a product of a cascade of "failures." Investigating while constraining your assessment to a single issue, alone responsible for the incident is not wise. Formal orders (policy) are invaluable as peices to reconstruct an official timeline. To stop there would at best clear a little fog and at worst create a whole new layer through which you must reason. Same goes with history.
To stop and attribute blame to simply Communism is even worse. I don't remember angry mobs rampaging and arresting Soviet officials happening too often. Nor can I assertain how a vauge reference to a broad and varied set of ideologies could provide anything close to insight as to major contributing factors. Communism, especially today, as a reference to a nominal descriptor through two governments in two countries across two relatively short differences in time could mean anything from 90's- 2000s Growth above all China to a group headed by a maniac massacring millions of innocents for the crime of looking smart. Brezhnev is a far cry from Stalin I'm so were the nature of their governments and cultures.
Do you believe that something like the cultural revolution could occur within an enthusiastic young communist club at a domestic college due to the influence of some sloppy umbrella marked communism?
We are in increasingly dangerous times. In times like these rhetoric matters. There are factions Hungry for conflict with China. A brief overview of popular media coverage on Chinese topics shows a dark shift toward desensitization, stoked fears, and a near unanimous move to present a new, military dominated context in which resides national "conversations" directly involving China. Focus around events in popular media a few years ago would have been presented via narratives around officials and actions resident to the State Dept. Diplomatic centered framing is fading into endangered territory in the media and even more so in popular narratives.
Simplifying the nature of reality within China and grouping many millions of individuals who were born and live(d) within its borders into faceless communists enacting constant mob rule is irresponsible.
You're better and smarter than that.
Keep up the good work. I really appreciate you sharing what you do.
Too long, didn't read, try again with that comment. Exhausting just opening the Show more tab and seeing this wall of text.
I've noticed a theme. People become complacent by having a monopoly for decades. People are freaking out over china, but should we be placing the blame on the West's leadership and not China? Nvida was scrappy child, but when they reached the top they began to act dirty. Once Intel reached the top they began bribing manufactures to only use their CPUs.
Now Intel is producing their first GPUs and will beat the snot out of Nvidia, maybe not with this up coming generation of product but sequential generations. I'm hearing that China is working on home brew CPUs and GPUs as well.
Once again, is china really the boogy man as it's made out to be or should we talk about mass retiring corporate,congressmen & senators, and military leadership for letting things get so stagnated?
Mao not map, damn auto correct. The man was addicted to smoking, drinking and young girls. Guy was nuts, you have to be to read Marx and Engles and think hmm... That's a good idea.
Nah-typical rock star mentality. Half the big acts from the Stoned Age have neo-political gurus in them. They read a book, loved it and believed the author. No need for second opinions when one is a rock star. Just unzip and have at it!
Help to the China is Russia's second big mistake after going full communist
You wanna see what China should look like go to Tiawan
China MIGHT look like Taiwan, not “should”, if CCP did not take over mainland. Because some areas of China have already been much more advanced than Taiwan.
Taiwan is kind of backwards now compared to china.
@@henli-rw5dwSome parts of Taiwan look worse than Vietnam
This one got a bit too political - glad to see you moved away from that in more recent briefs
The cultural revolution wasn’t about deleting history. It was about deleting cultural practices that were antithetical to Marxism.
For example feet binding was outlawed, the practice of kidnapping brides was outlawed, intertribal conflicts were squashed, Mandarin was chosen as the primary language.
If all past statues were destroyed in favor of communist ones the terra-cotta army wouldn’t exist. Mao recognized that he would need more than defeating Chiang kaishek to unite a country that had historically never been unified. Saying there was a “Purging” of military leaders doesnt contextualize who was removed and why. Additionally Mao isn’t cia supported pol pot. University graduates weren’t purged
I know you made this quite awhile ago, but to say "with America's help" is just, well, let me put it this way... If Stillwell hadn't been such an incompetent idiot, China would've been better off. They'd have been better off without our "help".
Stillwell took the best armies of China, then marched off to Burma, despite everyone saying it was a lost cause. He marched in with 3 armies, abandoned his fucking command, then marched out with 3 squads. And was considered a "hero" for this and it was basically an academic death sentence to speak ill of the man during the cold war. In America. In academia!
I highly recommend watching the video on Military History Not Visualized channel called "Worst General of WW2?" as it goes into the details more explicitly as to why Stillwell (and by extension, our "help" in China) was a poison pill that was extremely detrimental for China, and while it's impossible to prove, he's a major factor in why the communists won.
America had ZERO interest in helping China, at least via Stillwell, it was basically just throwing bodies at lost causes that wouldn't help China even if they worked out.
Basically, you'd do well to perhaps look into some modern histories, as the stuff you were taught growing up is filled with outright propaganda that you're repeating in these videos as fact, continuing the problem.
It's a bit of a stretch to claim that the cultural revolution continues to this day. Not that people aren't getting persecuted for thought crimes anymore, It's just the cultural revolution was much much worse. Mao was looking for political dissidents that did not exist, which caused many loyal party members to be imprisoned and exiled, often for life.
Post-Mao China is VERY different from China during the cultural revolution. The Deng era changed a lot about the way China does business.