Game of Thrones Rewrite - Episode 5: Jaime Lannister
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- Опубліковано 26 вер 2024
- (SPOILERS FOR BOTH THE BOOKS AND THE SHOW!!!)
Geez, Jaime got a pretty crap deal in the last season of Game of Thrones. If only there was someone there to lend him a hand...
... ba dum tis
An episode much longer than usual but well deserved. Let's see if we can redo fan favorite Jaime's Lannister's arc to give him a better ending than the show gave him...
....not that I am setting the bar high here, seeing as the conclusion of Jaime's arc was perhaps one of the biggest letdowns in storytelling history.
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15 min of gushing about Jaime’s book arc is SO relatable
Right? I wasn't even mad.
I feel like Zuko COULD HAVE been that good of an arc. But his team up with Azula was just a bit too rushed for me.
@@samlerf it diddnt feel rushed at all to me. Zukos desire to return home and restore his honour, a concept that had been drilled into his head from birth since he was a baby, had never been addressed and overcome by him, it was just that he felt that he had to give up and move on now that the option was closed off to him. As good as it is to see him happy in the ba sing se episodes of season 2 there's always a sense that he's putting on an act on some level due to how the actor plays it. And now azula is offering him the very thing he wanted so much that turning against it basically put him into a fucking coma from mental stress, so to me it feels completely believable that he would fall back into his old habits.
I know most people mention Lena Headey first when talking about the massive waste of extraordinary talent when talking about this show, but god dammit Nikolaj Coster-Waldau needs to be mentioned faaaar more in those conversations.
The way he brought Jaime to life was amazing, and along with Headey, I don't know if we'll ever get a more perfect pair to portray the Lannister twins, no matter if we get one or a hundred remakes of Ice and Fire (if we ever get another one at all).
Such a waste.
Agreed! Nikolaj owned the role.
Even his useless silent non plot forwarding stares were better than all the other characters stares.
Anyone else notice that as a real person not a character that man became more damn attractive with each season. I was hot for any romance he was in.
All Lannister actors are impressive and the way D&D wasted them is unforgivable.
This is so true! They are both outstanding actors, it is too bad they werem't given much in the later seasons
@@adrienneclarke3953 He shined when the Starks had him captive. Some of the best acting in the entire series, hands down. Tragically underrated.
I seriously never understood why they didn't use Cersei's pregnancy as the real reason why Jamie goes back to her rather than deciding he suddenly loves her again and doesn't care about the innocent, and giving Cersei an undeserved "romantic" ending in her lover's arms. It would have made absolute sense considering he's lost all of his children and wouldn't want to stand by as another dies, and I'm certain that Brienne would have understood and let him go rather than just stand there sobbing if he just told her that. Yet another great opportunity for good storytelling wasted.
I know it’s a year lately but I completely agree with you. It’s insane to me how far the show went. Sure, you can start to see the decline from the early seasons, but all they had to do was stick to the books, then fill in the blanks for the later seasons.
I don’t know how it’s possible to fuck it up this bad with the budget and talent they had beneath them. It’s evident in the costume design and special fx. Storytelling was AWFUL!!
People say it’s just a show and it is, but if you invest all the time to watch all the seasons and shows you have a vested interest in it. Wtf Dan and Dave.
Apparently their careers suffered for it, but they didn’t have to!! I think they checked out post season 4 or 5 when they ran out of source material.
These rewrites are therapy for my Game of Thrones PTSD. Thank you.
Mood !
Your fault for caring about the show. Stannis was the canary in the coal mine
As a book lover and show lover / hater I could not have summed this feeling up any better!
@@trutherror I still haven't gone back and rewatched any of the earlier seasons... I think at this point the wounds have healed enough to go back and watch the good parts again though 😭🤣
@@AndreaHa oh man best of luck to you! Lol My fiancee never read the books or watched the show, a few months ago he asked if I would re-watch it with him and he ended up liking it and thought the ending was fine. I did enjoy watching the earlier seasons but I was suprised when I was still so effected come the ending and wrapping everything up around season 7 season 8. I think he understood how I felt but just did not feel the way I did as someone who had years invested in our beloved characters. I remember thinking to myself early on orginally watching as the seasons came out like okay they can still make it up, they can still wrap this up, they can save this, they have to! I was optimistic and hoping and then praying until ultimately such a let down. Hit so hard... So Def best of luck to you, it was rough for me haha Idk if it will ever really sit right with me.
I actually like the idea of Brienne and Jamie. The idea that Jamie finds love through mutual respect instead of manipulative power dynamics. I think if it was fleshed out a little more it would be much better. They barely even talked for the entire time they were banging which is....kind of weird.
Yeah that was cos if they were shown having any kind of conversation/relationship, it would make EVEN LESS sense when he left her for Cersei. Jaime "I've only ever been with one woman" Lannister had casual sex? Okay🙄🙄🙄
Their kissing scene was portrayed as a drunk hook-up at a frat party, complete with virgin shaming and regret face. Never showed Brienne and Jaime talking, nwver showed him conflicted or aDDicTeD. Then they made him dick and dash like a coward when he crawled back to his lifelong abuser. It was Larry Lannisturd the end of 8x04 and 8x05. I laughed at the "fight" with Euron and the death scene with whiny, sniveling Carol.
They have to have been together for weeks after that at Winterfell.
@@HuntingViolets yes, they were together for several weeks. Why wasn't anything ever shown between them? Why no conversations? I hated how the showrunners absolutely destroyed everything about their relationship just to get their tWinCesT ending.
I think it makes a lot of sense since there were lines in both the show and books that make it pretty explicit that they are both harboring sexual attraction towards the other. (Re: Jaime getting a hard on during the bath scene. You don't exactly have to read between the lines there)
There's also quite a bit of development and suggestion that they are developing romantic feelings for each other.
Ned fought Arthur Dayne but Howland Reed attacked Arthur from behind before the duel was over.
But in the end Ned was attacked from behind when he fought Jamie.
How have I never realized this possible connection?
Oh shit!
Macabre Storytelling You should do One on Varys, Littlefinger, Bronn, Blackfysh and Bran
@@pawnhearts8785 as much as i like to hear it too, i doubt that he'll create one for bf or bronn.
@@corndog7813 The Blackfysh is an important character
though
@@pawnhearts8785 There are lots of important characters, but it would be unreasonable to do videos on them all. And although BF is cool, he's not one of the more crucial characters. Like everyone else, he certainly played a part larger-than-is-noticed in the whole saga, but there are more critical secondary characters than him, sorry to say! But that's simply an opinion 😉
Don't stop gushing about Jaime, keep gushing about Jaime.
he is indeed the best character in the series
But not our Jaime. Couldn’t be precious Jaime. And he got to be a kingslayer? What a sick joke!
Zuko's probably the only other redemption on par with Jaime's
Vegeta & piccolo
I thought the exact same thing!
Yup! Zuko is definitely one of the best.
@@Skyvsfate vegeta wasn't redeemed he just successfully killed everyone that had legitimate grievances against him, or they all forgave him because *well goku thinks he's cool*
Kazuko also didn't have a Redemption Zucca was never evil he was an antagonist Zuko stayed the same his goals just changed.
This is a great video and I agree on everything except the Jaime-Brienne part. There have been multiple cast interviews confirming they are a romance plot. Love is a huge part of both their arcs in both the books and the show. GRRM has even confirmed they are based on "Beauty and the Beast" and the last episode he wrote on the show ("The Lion and the Rose") had a lot of marriage foreshadowing. Jaime is a character who takes love seriously, and Brienne is a character for whom love seems like an impossibility. There is a reason readers don't meet Jaime in the books till he meets Brienne. They are George's favorite romantic relationship to the point where he left the show cos they didn't adapt LSH - a subplot that changes Jaime/Brienne's stories more than most and explores knighthood, honor, and loyalty. George also made Dunk and Rohanne (Brienne and Jaime's ancestors respectively) fall in love, have insane parallels to the JB story, and cited circumstances as the only reason they couldn't be together. Sorry to break your bubble, but the actors have said themselves that their relationship is not platonic.
What's LSH and JB story?
@@made-line7627 Lady Stoneheart (resurrect Catelyn Stark) is a vengeful villainous character from the books.
Martin left the show because they didn't want to adapt her because her subplot has a butterfly on Brienne, Jaime, Sandor, Arya and Gendry's stories. JB is short for Jaime and Brienne...
@@abhinayashankar4201 Oh ok. Yeah I'm really pissed off about Lady Stonehart not being in the show. I can't believe it.
I guess I kind of assumed that Brienne's love for Jaime was similar to her love for Renly - not necessarily romantic, or definitely not requited in a romantic way, but earned by their good character, and their kindnesses towards her. Jaime takes her seriously as a person and particularly in her skills and her vow to Caitlín (once he loses his hand and starts taking anything seriously - as far as we're aware).
I've only read the first book, though, and your point about us being introduced to the real Jaime at the same time as meeting Brienne makes complete sense.
Also I'm aware I have my own feminist bias - I hate how many female characters are defined just by their romantic lives, and/or family - the supportive wives loving/wise mothers, beautiful lovers/prizes, and innocent daughters that need protecting, etc. I'm aware Martin avoids and subverts as lot of these tropes, and maybe I just assumed that meant she wouldn't have a love story, not because she couldn't, but because her need/goal is to prove her abilities as a knight/fighter. 🤷♀️
Helen L haha you're in for it! How anyone who's read the books can see the relationship as platonic is baffling to me. There's constant romantic subtext and they think about each other all the time. Their relationship is actually Martin's favorite. The bathtub scene is also lifted from his life - he met his wife when he snuck into a sauna naked. Her arc is as much about romantic love and acceptance as it is about Knighthood and honor and oaths. Martin describes her as "Sansa with a sword". She only rejects that part of herself because of bitter experiences with her suitors. She also goes through a lot in the books both as a child and a young adult. Making her face yet another rromantic rejection, especially from the dude whose life she changed would make her character LITERALLY POINTLESS (and an ugly woman getting rejected is unsurprising, so why introduce her POV?).
Meanwhile, Jaime is a character who takes love seriously and yearns for her approval and admiration. She means a lot to him (no spoilers) and they act like such clueless fools around each other. The hand chop kicks off his identity arc; this is the hand he pushed bran off the tower with/he was holding on to when he entered the world with Cersei (her foot LMAO- George isn't even subtle when he reminds us how under her control he is initially). So him discovering he's just as hateful as Cersei would make him a LITERALLY POINTLESS character too.
On Twitter someone summed it up in the best way: "George has taken one character for whom love has been a cruel joke and another character who takes love very seriously and pointed them at each other. If you can't see how that's going to play out, I can't help you".
And wait till you get to Cersei chapters *rubs hands in glee*
In conclusion, unlike 2D who throw in unearned cheap "yaas kween" moments and send a message that women can't be both ladies and knights/warriors (Arya/Brienne on the show), Martin is an ACTUAL feminist who wants women to have both (wait for the Dorne chapters).
I'm so excited for you to read the books!
The best actors of this show are the ones who played Lannisters: Charles, Nikolaj, Lena, Peter. Just outstanding, BRILLIANT acting. I hope Nikolaj and Lena finally win an Emmy. They should have won years ago!
SportsFan_9630 also the kid who played Joffrey was fantastic. Just wanted to add the other Lannister
stannis actor
tywin actor
ned actor
my dad Yessss.
Catelyn stark too
Dont forget to mention good old Charly Dance! perhaps one of thé most underrated actors in the whole show! From his véry first scene (skinning a stag! oh the iconism!), till his very last (dying on 'the Throne'. Again, such másterful symbolism!). He OWNED the screen! And the FULL attention of every single 'person in the room', including the Viewer's! "Any man who múst say i am the King, is no true King. I'll make sure you'll understand that, once i've won your war for you'... Hoh! and if thats not badass enough: The explosive look of ánger in his face to Goffrey when the little sh*t accuses him of'Hiding under Casterly Rock' (probably one of Robert Baratheon's many drunken rage-jokes Tywin obviously had heard about). Goffrey had no respect for him, no regard, and Tywin treated him with evne greater humiliation in return: "The King is tired! See him to his chambers".... HAH! Well written ofcourse, but even more masterfully played by the actor(s).! Goffrey 'Baratheon' (Lannister!.. he was an inbred after all), aka Jack Gleeson was brilliant.
Genna Lannister; BADASS. I love her so much. I'm sad she wasn't included in the show, but also relieved that she is intact.
Beelzebub*
@@rifatalam8294 *My name is Beatrix, it's a play on my name.
@Fresh Beginnings I'm flattered you wasted your valuable time on this planet by telling me that.
I personally still don't like Rhaegar, simply because of the way he treated his wife, Elia. It's clear in some regards that she had no idea why he did what he did at the tourney - humiliate her in front of everyone. He rode off with Lyanna (a 14-year-old, him in his 20s) and all his best guards, and "annulling" his marriage thus leaving Elia and his kids completely defenceless with his mad father. Then there was the naming of Jon as Aegon (which is personally believe is only because they combined the Young Griff storyline to Jon) which only makes Rhaegar look like a douche (more so than before) and Lyanna look like a vindictive bitch. And as for her "love" for Rhaegar? I think it's probably the same "love" Sansa felt for Joffrey. She was only 14, after all. A child still by Westerosi standards (also, even in medieval times, people knew having a child young was dangerous. Most had their first child at 18 for this reason). And honestly, there's a million way Rhaegar could have gone about it instead of the drama queen route he did. He could have taken Lyanna as a second wife, he could have taken her a mistress. He should have known that what he did would have dire consequences. In anything, this all makes him incredibly impulsive, entitled, and maybe a little arrogant. I also doubt there was any real "love" and more just a desperate desire to have a third child.
Agreed. It was so disgusting, the way they romanticized the relationship. The only reason why they did it was so they can make House Baratheon look like the worst, ambitious, pompous, evil, and violent House in Westeros. They ruined the reputation of the most powerful House in the seven kingdoms just for their demented show. Also, it simplifies things because they wanted to finish the series, adding all of this new depth would take too long for them.
The gushing over Rhaegar was pretty off putting.
He is like prince Paris in Troy/Illiad. Causing a war that will devastate Westeros and kill tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands. Nothing admirable about it.
I mostly agree with your points but i can suggest a video done on rhaegar by alt shift x that goes into a theory about why he ran off with lyanna
That theory makes some sense and gives reasoning to what rhaegar did (doesn't make him right or anything but it still was a cool theory)
I always loved the idea that Rheagar wasn't attracted or in love with Lyanna at all and just manipulated a young, impressionable girl so he could fulfill the "dragon must have three heads" part of the prophecy (also I think it's in Danys vision that he says "his is the song of ice and fire" so maybe that's a why a Stark (ice) was appealing to him). It makes a Rhaegar a more interesting and morally complex character if he genuinely thought this needed to be done in order to save the world. In my little head cannon he took no joy in doing this to Lyanna but it was just something he felt had to be done.
Lust, young foolishness, arrogance & ignorance
Technically, Jaime was disqualified for fighting for Tyion in his trial, because Tyrion was tried for a crime of regicide, it was a crime against the crown, so a member of king's guards cannot defend the accused but is bound to defend the king.
Yes that is what is said in the video as the plausible reason why bro, the problem is that its not stated in the show anywhere
Jaime is the best written character in the books in my opinion, & my absolute favorite character in the series
TheQuandaryZone truth
It's not a opinion it's a fact alongside theon Jaime is one of the best written character in the book and show
It's very clear Jaime admires both Ned and the Blackfish. It's sad seeing them look at him with disgust and sadder seeing him hide all his admiration beneath the arrogance
I think Littlefinger needs justice.
He definitely deserves worse than the quick death that he got.
TheRealKingOfWesteros
And VARYS
@@someguy43210 why?
Given how much the show screwed Jaime over, it only makes sense that 2/3 of this video is backstory and analysis, while the final 1/3 is the rewrite.
Jamie in the show had such an amazing arc only for it to be ruined in one episode.
“To be Honest, I never really cared for them”.😡😡😡
I truly wanted Jaime to be a parent to Myrcella. And it saddens me it never happened
You had me until you declared that the relationship between Jaime and Brienne wasn't Romantic. He dreamed of her, she dreamed of him. He gave her a magic sword, she was willing to die for his honour. Its the most romantic relationship in the damned book and show.
Oooh and their chemistry on the show was absolutely on fire too. Too bad D&D ruined it cuz of their incest kink.
So true. JB = otp. It is known.
Knights shouldnt fuck each other
@@michaeldiekmann6494 Siblings shouldn't fuck each other
I prefer Jaime and Brienne in the books. In the show it felt a bit off.
Haven't watched the video yet and idk if you read comments, but just wanted to say that your GoT rewrites is the only series on UA-cam right now that I get excited about. I think about when your next video will be up all the time. This is a really, really great series and you deserve way more followers
Check out Preston Jacobs re-write, it's excellent.
@@mickmickymick6927 I will! Thanks for the recommendation
The fact that there are so many people who have rewrite series on UA-cam and all of them are vastly different from each other but all so much better than what was given to us by HBO really shows how much D&D bombed the ending of this show. I think it’s also fitting that Endgame was coming out relatively the same time as the resolution of the Night King and the whole series. Really shows the differences between competent story telling and compelling arcs and characters. Anyway great job on the series bro👍🏾 I’m on to the next one.
Do Varys and Littlefinger please
KennethJ Lagamia Him too
But mostly Varys. Cause he’s my favorite.
He’s intelligent yet deep inside truly cares for the realm
@@pawnhearts8785 um...in the show maybe in the books...not so much..heck not even in the show. The 7 kingdoms was at peace during Jon Arryn's tenure as Hand if he took an active roll in grooming Joffrey he could have been a better leader than his *father*
Wisdom Manari'
Theory
What if Varys raised joffrey.
Out of all the characters, “will Jamie go back to Cersei?”
Me: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Ryan Elliott Jaime "put this in the fire" Lannister is a very different character from Jimmy "she's HaTefUl, and so aM I" Lannisturd
I've been so excited for this video.
I was so deeply upset at what they did to Jaime.
I really f*cking hope that the books include Jaime's greatest deed being revealed to more people than just Brienne. I hope Bran figures it out. I can't accept that they had justifiable reason for leaving this reveal untouched in the show. And when it wasn't recorded in the White Book - by Brienne, no less! - I may have cried a little.
Damn! I could've sworn she did put it in the book - had to go back and rewatch 😖
I had interpreted Cersei’s pregnancy as her doing the good old-fashioned “pleading the belly” if it were. She realizes Jaime is slipping out of her control, so she claims to be pregnant as a means of drawing him back to her side. I assumed that this would be confirmed or refuted in season eight, because surely, they wouldn’t bring this up and never address it, given the possible ramifications. Ah, how naïve were we all, in those pre-season eight days, assuming that we’d get any kind of meaningful resolution to anything.
According to Martin, Renly's rainbow guard was an accident and at the time of writing wasn't the LGBTQ's symbol. Not sure how accurate that is but is an interesting coincidence if it's true.
Just checked and it looks like the rainbow flag has been around to some extent since the 70s and 80s but if Martin’s use of it was a total coincidence that’s nuts!!
@@MacabreStorytelling "Worldwide, the LGBT rights political movement has adopted the rainbow as its symbol.[14] However, author George R. R. Martin did not intend the books' use of "Rainbow Guard" to refer to Renly's homosexuality.[4] Despite the explicit depiction of the relationship between Renly Baratheon and Ser Loras Tyrell in the television adaptation Game of Thrones, HBO elected not to use the term "Rainbow Guard" due to the political connotations. The organization is instead described in the show as "King Renly's Kingsguard"."
-Excerpt from A Wiki of Ice and Fire, so it might just be Martin not realising the connotations at the time.
ENT Productions that’s nuts it was just a coincidence!
Are the colour's not a representation of seven. One colour for each of the seven god's..
Jaime and Theon are, IMO the most complex characters in the books.
Jaime: Say... my... name
Brienne: I don't know it
Jaime: you know my name. Say my name.
Brienne: Jaime?
Jaime: You're God damn right.
waited for this one... One of my favourite characters throughout the whole series! It was such a pain to see what DD did to him in season 8. This one deserves better! Good job man (as always)
This video is so great. Perfectly sums up everything the show runners screwed up with Jaime's arc. However I COMPLETELY disagree when you said that Jaime and Brienne isn't meant to be a love story. If you've read and analysed the books in so much depth then you should know just how romantic their relationship is. GRRM has made it abundantly clear he holds a special place in his heart for those two. From Jaime being aroused by her in the bathtub scene, to beating up the guy who insulted Brienne, to both of them having erotic dreams about each other (correct me if I'm wrong), even Nik and Gwen have always played their scenes keeping a potential love in mind. George has described them both as his beauty and beast.
Loving these rewrites. My only disagreements have to do with brienne and jaime only having respect for each other. Respect is there yes but so is love. Look up screenprisms video on brienne or the tumblers chronicling their longing looks or the interviews with the actors saying they played their scenes together with love in mind. The books also lean more into them being in love because intheir povs you see how much they think about each other
Can they have the love without the shagging. It was out of character for the honourable brienne to go off with Jamie in that setting
@@adrienneclarke3953 absolutely! I was really annoyed by how they hooked up. It felt like an 80s teen sex comedy rather than a nuanced innovative take on the archetypal beauty and the beast. How do you lose a hand protecting B's honor only to destroy it later? It seemed out of character for both. Love, even romantic love, doesn't have to equal sex.
Are you kidding me? GRRM totally sets up a Jaime-Brienne romance in the books!!!!!
I don’t recall anything ever being said about Ned beating Arthur in an honorable duel. The only thing Ned said about it was if not for Howland Reed he would be dead.
The line was in the show I think?
I know you have probably received a lot of comments like this, but Jaime and Brienne are A THING in the books. They are not a couple, but they clearly are going to be. As you sais, GRRM is sneaky and he wouldn't just state how things are, but he gives a lot of hints. It's just easy to miss them in the books (hell, the first time I read the books, I missed it)
It's really easy to know that Brienne loves Jaime. Brienne hadn't known love during her childhood, so of course she would fall in love with the first man that shows kindness to her and let's her be by his side - Renly. Now we know that Renly was only using brienne and her loyalty, but she loved him the same and having him die in her arms broke her. She has nightmares about this in the books. At some point though, Jaime starts replacing renly in the dreams, telling us that renly was a thing of the past. She is falling in love with Jaime.
With Jaime, it's harder to tell, because at the time they meet, he is still devout to Cersei. The only form of "love" he has known was to Cersei and what he and brienne have is very different. There is physical attraction, that much is obvious in the baths of harrenhall scene, but for Jaime, it's more about the little things. The way he tries his best to protect her from harm (gives her Oathkeeper, an armour, podrick and even a letter stating that she was doing the king's business if anyone decided to question her - that backfires later though), but mostly it's the way he looks at her and sees a younger version of himself and of what he could become. She makes him want to be better. Also, the same way brienne dreams of him, he dreams of her and thinks about her a lot.
Yes, it starts with mutual respect, but once Cersei is out of the way and they have a serious talk, it will evolve to something more.
Other than this, the re-write was really great. keep up the good work!
I agree, I think we will see a romance develop in WOW as I believe they are both in the Riverlands together now. Maybe Breanne will save Jaime from Lady Stoneheart and confess her love pleading with LS to spare him🤔
@@BigfootUnibrowMan now we only have to wait for Wow to come out 😭
Been waiting for this ever since I found your channel. Jamie is definitely my favorite character. Especially in the books. Thanks so much
Your season 5 and 6 ideas are so good- what we would have had!
god i adore this series its so sad yet fun to see what couldve been
brienne absolutely loves jaime in the book but can't accept it. in the books the romantic storyline is more obvious, i didn't see it when i was only watching the show either
The actors play it, but the writing isn't as clear as in the books, and keeping him with Cersei all the way till the end of season 7, past the Riverrun plot, when he goes off with Brienne in the books, is not helpful.
I feel so lucky to have stumbled upon your channel!! I hope you get a chance to show everyone your talent with rewriting. You deserve so much more attention for your efforts!
These are amazing. I can’t wait to read the books. It just shows how many more components go into shaping a character. I always felt like Jamie’s arch was going beautifully and ten fell flat. In an interview Martian mentions how you always have to be aware of the medium you’re working in and how you convey things in a different way on screen then you do writing. It was so much more intricate in the earlier seasons and now it’s so sad how glazed over and one dimensional these characters are. All the tools were there and the actors are AMAZING and quite frankly I feel like they carried what was left of the show. Thank you for making these !
You're in for a treat with book Jaime!!
elvisglasses 5 I can’t wait. I love to read and I love being able to figure things out. A couple of years ago I tried to watch the show and decided against watching because to me it was soooo obvious Lyanna was Jon’s mom and he was a secret tart by just watching the first few episodes so I thought the show was going to be a predictable mess that requires no thought. I’m glad I gave it a chance again to find out I was wrong about the series and I’m so sad the show turned out to be so lame. I love this channel and ideas of ice and fire because they do such a good job analyzing this wonderful series 🥰
I like how you have Arya the piece of dialogue “I won’t let her take the last name of my list.” It’s facisnating that she’s getting desperate, it was always apparent how she didn’t get to satisfy her blood lust. It’s clear that she has it out for Cersei arguably more than Joffrey, from Cersei calling her a wild animal, to tywin comparing Arya to young Cersei, to the whole “a younger more beautiful queen” and “valonquor” thing, their bad blood has the most build up.
BUT THAT CLIFFHANGER THOUGH! XD lol No, but seriously, I've enjoyed these rewrites very much; they soothe my soul lol And I think your rewrite for Jaime is amazing, and I agree; our Golden Lion was terribly shafted in the show, along with everyone else. I also have no problem with him hooking up with Brienne...if that romance is earned by the end, and I don't feel it was. Yes, thematically it makes sense that Jaime would be attracted to this woman who is Cersei's polar opposite (she's honorable, dependable, respects him as an equal and lets him choose his own fate, and is not considered the beauty his sister is, if we're going to bring up the superficial stuff as well), but to throw that well-established tension away on a drunken night of quick sex in an effort of him wanting to fix her "virgin problem" (since I really don't see him doing that, given that respects her too much)... If anything, I would say he would defend her choice of maidenhood and have that be the turning point for their relationship, have their night together be the culmination of their mutual respect. But I guess the writers went "NAH!"
they portrayed it as a awkward/drunk hookup, but once again they failed, (as in the Cersei "rape" scene) to accurately convey what was meant
Great video. The only thing I disagree on is your commentary on Jaimie and brienne’s relationship, as I do feel you have to be an idiot to not see they were in love, but hey, to each their own :)
I agree. I think his knighting of Brienne was one of the best scenes of the show and THE best of season 8
Then why did he go back to cercie?
@@wisdommanari6701 It had been drilled into the Lannister kids, by Tywin, that family is the only thing that matters. He couldn't just leave Cersei to die without trying to save her. Love does not always conquer all and duty can be the death of love. I think he should have told Brienne how much he cared for her but he HAD to do this
Wisdom Manari' she’s his other half. Be couldn’t just let her die by herself
@@wisdommanari6701 Going back to Cersei was stupid and doesn't fit. I think the writers were dumb there. If you want to fanwank it , you could think maybe he did it for the baby or because she was still his sister. There's not a romantic kiss as they die together, and Jaime could just be saying what he knows she wants to hear since he knows they'll die (although, hey, they could have gone a few steps in a different direction and lived, but whatever). Brienne was more of his soul twin.
People forget that when Martin first wrote about Loras and Renly he wouldn't have gotten any praise for including diverse characters. In fact, I remember it as being something of a scandal at the time that he had characters that "might" be gay. The fact that the climate has changed so much that the show can do away with the original discretion in the books is a good thing, actually.
faiaflrt yeah, I just wish they included an ass to mouth sex scene where Renly gives Loras a dirty sanchez and tells him he “looks like a distinguished Dornish man”.
I have been waiting so long for this holy crap thank you. These are so good. Jaimie is my favorite character in the show
I’ve been waiting for this for weeks
Much better than Douche and Dipshit, but seriously, what book series or show have you been watching and reading if you don't see Jaime and Brienne as a love story? It's the ultimate love story in the whole series, one of the few that make sense.
Also, Jaime's decision to turn his life around in Riverrun has more to do with the dream he has of his mother, rather than aunt Genna.
Why does this guy not have more subs? These videos are very good.
The prince Zuko of ice and fire
Love your content, please keep going. Thank you! ♥️
Bookmarking this to watch the whole thing later when the wound has healed. I got about 11 minutes in before I wanted to cry. LOOK WHAT THEY DID TO MY BOY.
Something that annoyed me about Jamie in season 7/8 is that he goes north by himself. Like he didn't have any pull with any Lannister forces, guards, or any money to hire at least a few dozen men to go north. Even if Cersi told him they weren't going North, couldn't Jamie pull together at the very least a few hundred men to march with him. I know it doesn't really affect his character overall but it still bugs me.
It never occurred to me before, but Jaime imploring Cersei to leave Kings Landing would probably trigger her fear of the prophecy being fulfilled. If Cersei leaves for a wholesome life with Jaime, a younger more beautiful Queen WILL take over.
Since I can’t rewatch this series anymore. I’ll just keep relistening to these amazing rewrites! Thank you for filling the whole in my heart left by D&D.
Only thing I’d change is confine Jamie to quarters. Putting him in prison seems a bit strong for him volunteering to fight for the living.
Great you updated! It’s so funny how you said “we’ll discuss how the writers brutally ass fucked a perfectly exquisite character with a single flaw.” In such a calm voice.
To be fair the Starks are so honor bound that even if they knew Lyanna was in love with Rhaegar and was disgusted by Robert being a womanizer (but doesn't care that she'll be with Rhaegar even though he already has a fucking WIFE) they still would've went about everything they did leading up to Roberts rebellion. Also in the books Marcella is also a ploy device albeit to a far better Dorne plot even though barring how it ends in book 6 and 7 the Dorne plot could also turn out to be stupid as fuck in the books.
Yeah, I think they'd have been against the match even with the annulment of his first marriage
That and wedding vows are sacred oaths to the gods
It's not just a matter of who's in love with who. Ned Stark (and maybe the others) knew that Lyanna didn't love Robert. However, marriages between noble houses were brokered by the parents as part of political arrangements to bring their houses closer together. Even setting aside whether they knew Lyanna rode with Rhaegar willingly, Rhaegar just majorly stepped over all of their dynastic arrangements for his own gratification.
The Dorne plot is much better in the books so far, because at least it ties back to the greater overall plot of Westeros and explains a few things. I don't disagree with Myrcella being a plot device, so we'll have to see how that all shakes out (since we're told that she will be dead soon).
I don't like the Dorne plot in the books either...
I waited to watch this in peace instead of clicking on the notification when it appeared. My man, I haven't got words to describe how grateful I am. Character assassination (so to speak) of Tyrion and others made me angry, but that was kinda on principals, you know - logical. But when they did it to Jamie - I took it personally. I guess they had to nerf the character, it was too OP. I have so much more to say, but I think I'll stop here.
Also nothing, nobody could ever make me rewatch the show, but you just might. To see those extra scenes in a totally new light. Kudos, man, and keep it up.
(I know you have a new job and all, but I had to wait weeks for this vid. Please have them out ASAP, and all the best! Cheers!)
you pointing out that jaime could have saved his brother by being his champion is so neck turning i did a full 180 on it
the show really missed opportunity
Just wanna let u know that was an amazing video. I rarely sub to anyone but i really love this whole series and i cant wait to see more of it. Have a great day and keep up the good work
This was great! I so look forward to this series of your videos; I can’t wait for the next one!
Rhaegar was a prick. Bobby B forever. OURS IS THE FURY!
Robert is the president of the "i hate rhaegar targaryen" club and Oberyn is the vice president
Great rewrite. However, I have no problem in theory with Jaime going back for Cersei in the show. It was just done clumsily. In the books, it's clear that Jaime wants free of Cersei, for the reasons you mentioned. But in the series, it's made VERY clear, especially in S. 7, that Jaime still loves Cersei. Him telling Brienne that he's as hateful as Cersei and later telling Tyrion that he doesn't care about innocent civilians was ridiculous, but him going back to save the woman he loves and their unborn child is very much in line with his characterization IN THE SHOW.
Those last lines of dialogue D&D gave Jaime were so cringey. If only they had at least changed that.
@@RanMouri82 yeah, that left a bad taste in my mouth as well.
Jaimes character arc in your version is litteraly just leaving a toxic relationship. Perfection
To be contrary to other people the only bit I have some concerns about is stating that the R+L relationship was "love". I think its a bit sugar-coated, and not what I expect from GRR. I definitely think that R+L is true, but just have some reservations with thinking that it was love/a romance.
Do you think R&L was one-sided (like the rape story) or that it was more of a crush or lust?
@@RanMouri82 Either would be 'better' than a easy 'love story'. Possibly both enamoured (L wanting to escape; R obsessed with the prophecy) and then tragic (too late to fix it)? I don't think GRR would go to rape (although given L's age and that R is a prince consent is probably always going to be murky unless it IS love).
What I dont understand is why Ned Stark doesn't like Jamie, even though they both ultimately fought on the same side during the Rebellion? Yeah stabbing your king in the back isnt exactly nice, but he did the Starks and Baratheons a favour.
Slight little amendment regarding Rhegar and Lyanna, the eloping narrative is actually the first perspective fed to the audience in the first Dany chapter of the book.
Daenerys DD plot wasn't great but Jaimes journey got trashed. I like your concept and the plot fix for why Cersei did not nuke all of them.
Probably kill off all the Dragons in the fight with Night King so the outcome of the battle for King's landing in uncertain.
Aunt Jenna being the surrogate mother of Tywin's line is a symbol of Jaime and Cersei's love.
6:43 "such a dark secret"
He killed a guy who was attacking him during a war in an unfair way.
wut are you talking about?
@@kianghorbanpor9988 Ned killing Arthur Dayne with a backstab.
I seriously disagree with the notion the Jaime had his children stolen from him. It was a long time since I read the books now but my sense was always that he didn't really love them as a father. I appreciate the redemption arc of Jeime as much as the next person but I think you're being a bit charitable in your take on him as a whole. He was played by Cercei at many points in the story, but he wasn't exactly doing much to prevent it. I know his reasons are really complicated and foggy with emotions but I wouldn't rob him of agency so easily.
I think they were both fairly narcissistic from the start and used eachother. Cercei to fuel her need to feel in-control and Jaime to feel like someone loved him for him, something he knew wasn't true for a long time but pushed to the back of his mind. Sometimes it's easier to just let someone else steer you. He had to lose his sword hand, the only thing in his life that wasn't tainted- his swordsmanship- the only escape he had, and have it shoved in his face that Cercei didn't love him like he thought in order to start making changes in his life, on his own terms.
Ofc abuse is a real thing and I know it's not peoples fault for how they were raised/what enviroment they grew up in but I don't think it's helping anyone to remove agency from people. Especially book characters. Cersei and Jaime are both narcissistic, flawed, broken characters in the beginning of the story and it took losing everything, literally everything that made him who he was(including, and most importantly his swordsmanship) besides his last name in order to snap out of his own narcissistic/shallow ways.
You just had to stop there, huh? Thank you for all the time you put into these videos; I love them all!
I like your explaination of tyrion's trail by combate champian
It makes sense because Tyrion wasn't able to get contact of Jamie easily in the books
Very much looking forward to the conclusion then watching ALL the videos again lol
Ah that work on the GoT wiki must have been the Dragon Demands work. He do good job documenting the show failing
I know all the reasons it couldn't happen, but if only there were a way for Jaime and Ned to have learned of one another's commitment to Doing the Right Thing and actually realizing how many of their core principles were actually shared, how many ways they were so similar.
I also wanted - and I'm still holding out for it, he's not canon-dead yet - a reuniting/confrontation scene between Jaime and Barristan where Jaime pretty much throws the S3 Harrenhal bathhouse speech he gives Brienne about what Actually Happened directly in Barristan's face and demands Barristan tell him what _he_ would have done. So much potential there.
I love this series so much! I also appreciate how much time and effort you do put in your vids. Keep up the great work man!
Perception vs reality--I learned a lot from this video.
‼️so.... 3 years later and still no next book. It's been like 10 years. He's NEVER going to finish this book series. He's way too busy writing random history books and prequels and completely different franchises that no one asked for. So I definitely wouldn't say it's worth the wait. THIS is exactly why I have a policy of NEVER starting ANY book series until ALL the books are out. At this point I think it's just disrespectful and a slap in the face to his fans who made him rich and successful to begin with to just refuse to write anymore of ASOIAF. Like come on bro if you're done with the series at least hire a ghost writer to do all of the planning and plotting and first drafts then you can just edit them. Or have your editor do that. Just give your fans something. I haven't even started the series and I'm mad about it because I want to read the series! I know I couldn't emotionally handle getting attached to characters and stories only to have to wait several decades in-between books
i was waiting for you to talk about the dream he had about brienne
Yes! Too bad they cut that. And every time he's attracted to another woman in the books he thinks of Brienne.
@@HuntingViolets jaime: *gets hard*
jaime: damn remember that time i shared a bath with brienne
If he never saw Jaime and Brienne as a romance in the making, it makes sense why he wouldn't see Jaime's big prophetic dream as important. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Oh hell yeah
Hated that Jamie Brienne's relationship was sledgehammered into s*x rather than the platonic connection they shared. Also, Brienne raised as a highborn lady, out of character that she would have 1 night stand, and think Jamie respects her too much to suggest that. Jamie has been loyal to Cersei all these years, he too isn't the guy to sleep with Brienne and then just leave her after for the ex. Atleast he would want to marry her.
Its like suddenly 20th century social norms applies to them.
ily but you always drag poor little Lancel Lannister when it’s not his fault he was being molested by Cersei 😩
I'm listening to Episode 17: Dorne and you mentioned how you switched Jamie visiting done before the river run. This is very VERY nip picky of me to say, and it doesn't really matter but, in the way it airs, Jamie learns to fight with one hand on his trip to Dorne. If he heads to the river first, he's heading into a combat situation without the time to learn to fight. Granted I don't think he has enough time to learn to fight on the way to Dorne but I had to mention it.
Good point! In the book he learns to fight on his way to Riverrun with Illyn Payne so perhaps we could add some scenes of him sparring with Bronn in S5 in addition to the ones in S4. Or maybe the fact that Jaime can’t fight well yet is why he is forced to settle the siege of riverrun via a more diplomatic approach.
@@MacabreStorytelling First, I hope you dont take my comments as me shooting you down. Second, once again love your tweaks and how you present. With a a recap on the show, what happens in the books, and what you can fix. Its great. AND going off what you just said, yeah my comment didn't even matter since he learned to fight on his way to the river. I didn't think it would enough time but as we've seen in S8, time means nothing in Westeros
Lulz I legit can’t even tell the passage of time in the later seasons since they completely disregard it.
this video is EVERYTHING!
You may (or may not, I'm not sure) be implying that Jaime lost his hand because he saved Brienne from rape. Indeed, that's how Brienne herself reports it as well, but that's not actually what happened. What convinced them to stop the rape was Jaime's assertion that Brienne's family was extremely rich and would pay handsomely for her return, with even more money if she hadn't been raped. Locke later cut off Jaime's hand because Jaime additionally tried to convince Locke to let him go. They're two separate events. If Jaime had just saved Brienne and then not tried to talk his way out of his capture, he likely wouldn't have lost his hand.
Again, I'm not sure if you're even implying this, but... well, might as well correct it anyways. The show seems to think Jaime lost his hand for protecting Brienne, so someone somewhere needs to be corrected. :p
alRIGHT time to whatch THIS masterpiece
Video is top notch as always. Interested to see what you do next after the GoT rewrites are finished!
I’ve been looking at a lot of Star Wars stuff these last couple of days, so when the video started, my brain melted a little and I thought I was just turning everything in to Star Wars in my own head. Lol!!
I did forget that scene even happened. Thanks a lot
A very good video, but I do have one question: throughout it, you talk of how Tyrion is regretting bringing Daenerys to Westeros due to the destruction she will most likely cause to its people and how near the end of Season 8, he begs Jaime to go to King's Landing for the explicit purpose of saving their sister. However, in your video on Tyrion, you spoke of how, in your favored version, Tyrion would turn into a much darker character post-season 4, similar to his portrayal in the books, and how he actually wants Daenerys to act as a conquering tyrant in part to get revenge on the people who've wronged him, especially Cersei. You did describe him as having an epiphany about what he has truly become by the end of the season 8, but that wouldn't be until after the destruction of King's Landing. Is the Cersei-Jaime-Arya trilogy supposed to take place in the same continuity as the Tyrion-Daenerys-Jon trilogy?
I feel that Jamie from the show has some parallels with Zuko from Avatar
I think Jaime got screwed metaphorically not the literal I mean you gotta wonder what Cersei do to Brianne if she found out Jaime bumped uglies with Brianne
It was not done well but a "good" character can become an "evil" one through natural development.
A happy ending is not a good ending.
A good ending provides entertainment while maintaining logical and thematic consistency.
With this rewrite series you're doing the Lord's work. (Or Lords' i.e. the Seven, R'hollor, the Old Gods, the Drowned Gods, the Many-Faced God, etc.) Thanks so much!
Jaime's character development definitely isn't just that of a 'perception change' on the part of the reader- he's definitely a piece of work in the first two books who gradually becomes a better, wiser person. In Storm we see what makes Jaime ticks and become able to understand who he is under all that bluster and cockiness, but it is still a catalyst for actual character change.
Zuko from Avatar the Last Airbender is the best redemption arc I've ever seen.
Yo come to think of it, put aside the pedo and the incest between the two siblings, and Jamie and Cersei are literally Zuko and Azula.
I look forward to these episodes way more than I did to the last few episodes of GoT.
Thanks dawg I've been needing this