I had studied the Orthodox Church for some time and had been Protestant up until that point. My first visit to one I had tears in my eyes. A voice inside told me this is it, you are finally home. I’ve now been in The Church for 17 years and have never looked back. And, if I may add, it’s not a religion per se, it’s life.
Father Josiah is an amazing voice for orthodoxy. I add his wisdom to that of my own priest, Fr. Photius and scripture. I hope to one day get Fr. Josiah a Carhartt jacket for his videos as they are less evil than TNF 😂😁❤️☦️
He is your fsther ! How do you know it ? Idiotism ! Matteus, 23:9 - Ej heller skolen I kalla någon på jorden eder 'fader', ty en är eder Fader, han som är i himmelen. Evidential You never read a bible !
Thank you for this video. I listen to Fr Josiah every day at lunch... kinda like a trapeza. His constancy on the side of love is of enormous value to me as I'm frequently looking for an excuse to condemn. St John of Shanghai and San Francisco was the same. Lord Jesus Christ Son of God have mercy on me for judging
@@maxcarvalho9071 Surprising. He and Fr Peter Heers are the two hardest on heterodox I've comr across. Neither are absolutists or proud enough to second guess God.
@UCc2pqGGq9rCVJWNP68l1vxw Yes I suppose it's always harder to write people off when you actually know them. Probably why pharisees were so horrified by who Jesus hung out with and loved.
I think if protestants are being honest and consistent with their beliefs they would be against Orthodoxy. Where I come from, they'd accuse Orthodoxy of being works based salvation legalistic tradition separated from the Holy Spirit. They are quick to condemn anyone who rejects their understanding of what salvation is.
@@dw4270 I was raised Protestant but never fully embraced Reformed theology. I later studied the history of RC and the Orthodoxy. I have no difficulty accepting the doctrinal teaching of the ROCC which I am in agreement with.
Some Orthodox writers say that there was an Eighth Oecumenical Council in 879, which was attended by papal delegates and which condemned the Filioque. How did delegates from Spain, Portugal and England speak and vote at this Council, and what did they report back?
I am concerned with the end response “ so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth”.... I did not expect such an abuse of scripture from 1 Corinthians 14:24-25 which states “but if all prophesy, and there come in one that believe th not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: And thus are the secrets of his heard made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God and report that God is in you of a truth”. This has to do with prophecy and not the surrounding beautify of the church. This goes against what Saint John Chrysostom taught as well as Saint Ambrosiaster. It is also not taught among other Orthodox scholars.
He said the fear of God etc in the church, not the beauty in the church. I don't know why he would assume that would never happen at Protestant churches, as there are myriad, he wouldn't know
being unable to comment on patristic nectar films today 12 january 2022 about a website i just discovered on sunday 9 called father mark r in diocese st louis usa i would like to recommend to viewers/with visual defects/now have videos on papacy
I gave the video a like even though I totally disagree with father Josiah. Evangelical Christians that are born again or not Heterodox If they believe the fundamental doctrines of the faith including the Trinity and the substitutionary atonement which is downplayed or denied by eastern orthodoxy
Strange thing to hear from Catholic, I would have said that bad theology produces lack of saints but I don't know about Catholic saints, and Muslims probably produce far more "saints" of their own, so...
@@FirstnameLastname-py3bc I don't think they have an equivalent tho. They're Very different from us, you wont actually hear about misticism in Islam if you're not a mutfi, the majority of people in Islam only follow Sharia law and don't actually live their dogmas. In Orthodoxy the dogmas are part of ones life, not Just a set of rules that organize worship, but they express the Truth, our Divine Liturgy is exactly that.
There are very few Orthodox churches in my country and so being Orthodox isn't much of an option. I do pray that one day we will all be one Church again but it won't be in my lifetime. I do listen to lots of Orthodox teaching online though.
Think what situation people were in at the apostles time! I think that if one believes something is true they have to follow that truth and do the best out of a bad situation. Today there are many Orthodox churches in the USA (if you live there) and you should be able to find one in your area. But I do understand what you are saying and I know that many people live far away from a congregation. In that case, God's grace will cover everything laking. But if you were to believe in the Orthodox faith, don't let anything stop you, even if that would create some difficulties. You can always contact the nearest priest and discuss your situation
I would give a general warning that you may be good at knock'em down sectarian polemics, but it does nothing to advance your prospect of salvation. It would be better to promote your own religion in a positive and constructive way. In that spirit, in this month of September I would recommend that everyone learn to say the Chaplet of the Seven Sorrows of Our Lady, which is particularly relevant on September 15th. This chaplet is also known as the Servite Rosary. Highlight the text "Servite Rosary" with your mouse, right-click and then search the Internet for more information. This is a useful skill to have anyway.
Does the Orthodox Church have a mission to England, and if so, does it endorse the use of the word "papist" to describe Roman Catholics like myself? I have issue warnings on the Internet against using this term, but people calling themselves Orthodox insist on continuing to use it. Have they cleared it with the official mission in England? Actually getting a straight answer to a straight question from anyone in the Orthodox Church can be difficult, speaking from experience.
Our Saints use "Papist" as it is an accurate descriptive of the Ecclesiology of the Roman Church. In that it requires a Pope to function according to Dictus Papae, Vatican 1, the Council of Trent and many other events.
I watched this same Priest talk to a group of people about the falsehood of Fatima. He told them the three children of Fatima was three sisters. In all reality, they were three cousins, two girls and a boy. He also told this group of people that Catholics no longer go to confession which is totally false. This Priest needs to get his facts straight and stop his lying. Proverbs ch 6 tells us; “ there are six things the Lord hates and the seventh is an abomination.” # 6 are those who tell lies. # 7, the abomination, are those who cause discord. This Priest, is guilty, of both!
I know what video you're talking about. He never said that RCs never go to confession. He has stated a disappointment in that the Latin Diocese of LA they only have 52 Confession Hours a Year for around 500k Roman Catholics, many of them Minorities, so the Diocese has failed them in a Sacramental duty. Many of these folks end up in Orthodoxy as the OC and LA Counties have a growing Orthodox Presence even among the Hispanic Community.
Some of the Catholic-bashing Orthodox videos that I have seen have comments turned off. Can I assume that they are just the Voice of the Kremlin? At least the Learned Father Trenham is OK and is speaking on his own behalf, so please hear him out. I have come across one or two Catholic websites where comments are also turned off, but where I suspect that the Orthodox might like to comment. If they are are unable to do so, then I call this cowardice on the part of the producers.
As a former Roman Catholic I have run into the " two lungs " narrative per JPII. They often desire unity so much more than Orthodox do minimizing our differences.
I absolutely agree that the Catholic Church seems to desire unity more than the Orthodox. As a Catholic, I desire the Orthodox to come back to the fold of the Church that Christ founded on Peter.
@@paulpeter2869 There can only be one true Church so I don't believe the branch theory. The Catholics have lost so much of their traditions that they look to the East because we haven't lost any. For example, Theophany used to be a 'holy day of obligation " for them and now it's not. It's one of our most beautiful feasts and the blessing of the Great Waters essential. I don't believe the apparitions were authentic.
@@paulpeter2869 I’m a former RC, now Western Rite Orthodox, and have brought my whole family, my mother, sister brother in law and their six children. And I did this, in part, by choosing to remain agnostic on certain issues like Fatima. The idea of Fatima had played a MAJOR part in my maternal Grandfather’s rehabilitation from PTSD (or “Shellshock” as it was called) after WW1. That war had shaken shattered the faith of countless survivors, in many ways spelling the beginning of the End of Christendom in Europe, at least most of Protestant Europe, leaving a wide door for increasing secularism to take over. However, Catholics tended to recover much better than Protestants, because they now believed they had an answer to that terrible question: WHY; What was purpose, the MEANING in all that suffering? Fatima offered as very healing answer for men like my grandfather, an answer other denominations lacked. Orthodox who have their nuanced skepticisms of Fatima fail to account for things like that, the immeasurable GOOD it did for Catholic gentlemen, that it made them certain that their suffering was not in vain, and so gave them the strength to resist despair and hold onto their faith. There’s also the problem of Orthodox critics usually only seeking to debunk Fatima exclusively from Rome’s biased perspective. Their dogmas prevent them from interpreting the alleged prophecies in a potentially Orthodox way. They HAVE to assume that the so called “Bishop in White” of the Third prophecy was to be a Roman bishop and plausibly a pope. Yet by the time it was shared publicly, the best they could come up with was JP2 being shot with a small caliber bullet. NOTHING like the torture the Bishop is said to suffer in the prophecy, not even close. But then I read, in detail, all the horrific things the Bolsheviks did to Saint Tikhon, and when I saw the date he was captured by them, I got goosebumps. He was captured within just a few days of the final Apparition. HE fits the bill VERY closely. So, I can’t just throw the idea away, but will not believe in it either. That’s an allowable position for an Antiochian Orthodox to hold, as far as my priests and research can tell, and it was very useful towards easing my mother and sister into the faith. That MAYBE it was a legit apparition. And what even better, since their conversion, they’ve learned to let it go as a dogma and just hold it towards the side as a possibility. After all, there’s a good case against it entirely, too, Jay Dyer having the hardest to poke holes in, although again, he hasn’t addressed the possibility that Rome was simply misinterpreting everything because of the baggage of their false dogmas. Still, I’m thinking of replacing the Fatima prayer in the rosary with one of the ones accompanying Out Lady of Walshingham, the last certain western Orthodox Marian apparition. Better safe than sorry.
Yes you speak like there’s one Eastern Orthodox Church? But there are 14 or 16 something like that autocephalous body some of which are in schism with each other. So there is not one Orthodox Church there are several
Amazing how someone so wonderful could claim only the Eastern churches have the true faith. While claiming to honor the scriptures, he misquotes 1 Corinthians 14. The passage speaks of people PROPHESYING when someone enters...not reciting a liturgy. Other priests have also made blunders trying to base their points on God's word. They place tradition as supreme....above the authority of God's word. Orthodoxy is based on the word of God....all who hold to the essentials.
You could be reminding everyone that the Didache recommends that we say the Lord's Prayer or Our Father three times a day. You would be teaching the non-orthodox as well, but you could just make your recommendation and hope for the best. This is called being constructive. Instead we see loads of anti-Catholic stuff from the Orthodox Church which is merely an invitation to polemics. Mentally I move a motion of Previous Question. Should I respond to the latest round of rubbish or get on with promoting my own beliefs? If I take the bait, God may not be all that impressed ("You have a clear view of the speck in your neighbour's eye, but you do not see the beam in your own eye"). I don't have the complete answer here, but I think I will make some effort to be constructive. Here in England I am promoting St John Fisher's Prayer for Holy Bishops: Lord, According to Thy promise that the Gospel should be preached throughout the whole world, Raise up men fit for such work. The Apostles were but soft and yielding clay, Till they were baked hard by the fire of the Holy Ghost. So, good Lord, do now in like manner again with Thy Church militant, Change and make the soft and slippery earth into hard stone, Set in Thy Church strong and mighty pillars that may suffer and endure great labours: Watching, poverty, thirst, hunger, cold and heat. Which also shall not fear the threatening of princes, persecution, nor death, But always persuade and think with themselves to suffer with a good will, Slanders, shame, and all kinds of torments, For the glory and praise of Thy Holy Name. By this manner, good Lord, The truth of Thy Gospel shall be preached throughout all the world. Therefore, merciful Lord, exercise Thy mercy, show it indeed upon Thy Church. and all churches could benefit from a prayer like this. However in your sectarian fanaticism you would refuse to say it because you say John Fisher was a filioquist heretic. Presumably the various bits of the Orthodox Church are going to get back together again and mount a joint mission to England to persuade me of that. When will it happen? New technology gives us new means to pursue the aims of Christianity, which I won't hesitate to exploit DV. We might have a Pope who fails to co-ordinate the teaching of the bishops on Amoris Laetitia, and in the case of the Orthodox Church we have a civil war in the Church itself in the Ukraine, but there are other opportunities.
Fr Josiah Trenham only speaks for those within the Orthodox Church who are more on the fundamentalist side of things. Met. Kallistos Ware, Andrew Louth, and many others, do not think in these terms.
@@ΓραικοςΕλληνας Thanks ! Good question. Abraham was our Farher in faith. Your many father is in fals faith and idolatry to. I meen exactli this : John, 8:42 - Therefore Jesus said to them, "If God were your father, you would love me, for I came out and have come from God. For I haven't come of myself, but he sent me. John, 8:43 - Why don't you understand my speech? Because you can't hear my word. John, 8:44 - You are of your father, the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and doesn't stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks on his own; for he is a liar, and its father. Not Abraham ! He did GODs will. You doing own will Ex: playing theatre plays. Baptism blasphemous crowd pleasers Idol and traditions lovers instead GODs will and Commandments. ALMIGHTY CREATOR of all. Their own CREATORS. ua-cam.com/video/aFGHerqhSC8/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/gdawpDZD-Ro/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/v-PYT6EwKwg/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/766TZxL36nQ/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/RbpRPaIpj1s/v-deo.html Your servants.
Yet who defines what is heterodox? There isn't an authority with the Orthodox Church which can make universal decisions on this. One Orthodox Church believes this while another believes something else. Sola Patres is just one step more than Sola Scriptura which is problematic.
In my opinion, which ought never to be prioritized above the Church's opinion, it really depends on what type of protestantism we are talking about. Some of them aren't as bad as secularists, some of them are worse. I don't want to judge them but I come from very wacky protestantism not just wacky in practice but extremely dangerous in what they teach and how they manipulate minds, all in the name of Christ. It can twist and break your mind in ways atheists never could.
There's quite a bit of use of the word "papist" among Orthodox writers to describe Roman Catholics like myself. I would make three comments about this: (1) In England you will sound like a vulgar yob. Don't be surprised if people ask you what football team you support. (2) Coloured people who become Orthodox may be dismayed by hearing the sort of language that is often applied to them by racists. (3) If you use this word in what is supposed to be a respectable discourse, don't expect people to read you. Will the Orthodox Church now prohibit the use of the word "papist" ?
We use the word here too. It doesn't have the same weird neo-commie political meanings outside your country. It means people who worship the pope, as many people outside the RCC see catholics of doing. That word is found in documents and writings going back centuries.
How do Orthodox who work on Sundays attend divine liturgy if its only in the morning? I assume there's many greek/slavic truckers/merchant marines and grocers so I wouldn't be alone in this situation? I can make Wednesday or saturday though.
Where does it say we can’t work on Sundays?! Do you know how many Ortho work Sundays!? Many of them. Including me. There are also many Ortho who are police officers, military personnel, pilots, etc. so that’s not true. Yes, in a sense you are right and it is better that we don’t and I agree it’s not ideal. “Shouldn’t” key word is true. But it’s not necessarily wrong or a sin, especially if you have no choice. Obviously, If you are willingly, or purposely, or missing most Sundays over a long term, Then yes, that may be another issue. But occasionally or due to work restraints, line of work, etc. I’ve never met a priest who had issue with that and I’ve discussed it many times with several of them. They get it.
@@zealousideal thanks for answering this question I couldn't find an answer online I've been thinking of attending an OCA church in my area (I'm a Protestant) but it seems you only take the Eucharist on Sunday morning divine liturgy? I can possibly make it 12 or so Sundays a year.
You’re fine. Don’t listen to this guy. We have many in our parish and many parishes I’ve been in that are good faithful Orthodox who sometimes have to work Sundays. (As truck drivers, police officers, military, whatever the case). Yes, it’s not ideal we try NOT to and it’s rare but it happens. I’ve had to grudgingly work many Sundays during my career and I hated it but had no choice. The times I did have a choice or could control it I definitely did not though. Unfortunately, most EO parishes only have the one morning liturgy. Otherwise, you would have to catch a vespers (night service without Eucharist) sometime on another day. Usually they are on Wednesday, Friday, or Saturday nights.
@@jdkayak7868 now that’s a different issue altogether though. You unfortunately cannot take eurcharist unless you are fully chrismated into the Orthodox Church. You would have to first go through the Catachumen period and study and take your time to learn everything. Which is a huge plus and what I love about it. It’s not just a quick ..”pray this prayer and your in “ type of thing. You will actually get classes on everything and can take your time seeking, learning and studying with us first and be comfortable before deciding to convert. But it’s not an issue. People in your case they just have to be more patient and they work with them to help them convert and get Chrismated. There are sometimes online options and other methods too. Also, there are tons of you tubes and online materials now as well as tons of books you can order about the faith. The only bad thing I would say though for your case… is Orthodoxy is really meant to be experienced, practiced and lived. It’s not like any other faith. You can’t just subscribe to it mentally or scholastically like you can in Protestantism. You won’t really get to understand and know it and experience it unless you are actively in a parish as often as possible. But it’s still do-able. I have family members who are orthodox and don’t even have a parish close enough to attend. Bu they are faithful in all the other details as much as possible and have the orthodox mind. But don’t let that discourage you if you REALLY want to become Orthodox. I have had to overcome many more obstacles than just that to convert. It took a long time and I had MANY MORE obstacles. But I wanted the truth and to be a part of Christ’s Church so bad that I kept at it until I was able to convert. I’m ex evangelical myself.
Call no man Father on earth. Jesus commands this. This guy is not your father or anybody's, except if he has children. He is sinning against God for allowing himself to be called father.
1. St Paul called himself ”father” 2. “Call no man father” if you are going to take it literally why are you making exceptions to biological fathers? Jesus does not say “except biological fathers” so by your standard you are sinning too
A mad dictator who starts a vicious war can always find an Orthodox priest to explain why he is doing nothing wrong. This is called cesaropapism. The principal enemies of cesaropapism in the English-speaking world are John Fisher, Thomas More and Richard Gwyn among others, and I regard these men as saints. However Father Trenham has an axe to grind about a piece of theology called the Filioque, and does not agree with me. All I can do is to remind everyone of the words of Our Lord Jesus, "Beware of false prophets ... by their fruits shall you know them".
@@TheMhouk2 A horrible war is happening in the Ukraine and the Russian Orthodox Church is doing nothing to relieve human suffering. We "heretical" non-Orthodox types cannot help but notice it.
The Orthodox Churches do not agree among themselves concerning the validity of the baptism of Cardinal John Newman, recently canonised by the Pope. They recognise some English Saints (Theodore, Cuthbert, Herbert) but reject others (Becket, Fisher, More) even though all these saints have the same position on the Filioque derived from the Council of Hatfield. Becket, Fisher and More took a heroic stand against cesaropapism, and Fisher and More took a stand against divorce, which are not strong subjects for the Orthodox Church. It isn't obvious to me that the description "orthodox" is appropriate. You have nice churches and nice music, but otherwise aren't you just a species of Protestant? I am not pretending here. This Pope sponsors the Scicluna-Grech heresy and would probably have given King Henry VIII a pat on the head. Anyone can look up the SG heresy in L'Osservatore Romano and judge for themselves.
@@johnsambo9379 I am a real person who is not much impressed with the Orthodox Church, and especially not since February. The Chief Rabbi of Moscow refuses to go along with that "special military operation" and is now in exile. He puts certain "Christians" to shame. The Orthodox Church is full of trolls rabbiting on about the Filioque, but never about cesaropapism. I've noticed.
MISGUIDED CHRISTIAN VIEWS…..TO SAY THAT SCRIPTURES CAN ONLY BE EXPLAINED AND PROPERLY UNDERSTOOD ONLY THRU THE ORTHODOX CHURCH IS HERESY. WITH FAITH AND VIA THE HOLY SPIRIT, ONE CAN UNDERSTAND THE SCRIPTURES DIRECTLY FROM JESUS….NO INTERCESSIONARY NEEDED BUT JESUS. ORTHODOX ARROGANCE AND TOTAL LACK OF HUMILITY.
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God bless Father Josiah. A year ago, he was one of several Orthodox voices that led me to finding a parish in my own town a year ago.
Me too. A year ago!
I had studied the Orthodox Church for some time and had been Protestant up until that point. My first visit to one I had tears in my eyes. A voice inside told me this is it, you are finally home. I’ve now been in The Church for 17 years and have never looked back. And, if I may add, it’s not a religion per se, it’s life.
So very true :) about being life
SO ABSOLUTELY True!!! Orthodoxy is a Way of Life :) and a Revelation - it's Not Man-Made :) It's what has been Revealed to people by God Himself :)
Please pray for Orthodox in Indonesia, thank you
Every Liturgy in Doncaster we pray for all the Orthodox and the Church of The Faithful ...
Father Josiah is an amazing voice for orthodoxy. I add his wisdom to that of my own priest, Fr. Photius and scripture. I hope to one day get Fr. Josiah a Carhartt jacket for his videos as they are less evil than TNF 😂😁❤️☦️
Now Carhart instituted a vaccine mandate for its employees.... maybe Father will need a handmade jacket 😬
Amen God bless fr Josiah. A true speaker for our eastern faith ❤
This was an amazingly clear response to a tough question by Fr. Trenham. Thank you! God bless. ☦️☦️☦️
Absolutely…good stuff Father. Always enjoy your videos and interviews. Amen
He is your fsther !
How do you know it ?
Idiotism !
Matteus, 23:9 - Ej heller skolen I kalla någon på jorden eder 'fader', ty en är eder Fader, han som är i himmelen.
Evidential You never read a bible !
Thank you for this video. I listen to Fr Josiah every day at lunch... kinda like a trapeza. His constancy on the side of love is of enormous value to me as I'm frequently looking for an excuse to condemn. St John of Shanghai and San Francisco was the same.
Lord Jesus Christ Son of God have mercy on me for judging
What amazing insight from Fr. Trenham!
This was exactly my understanding of this issue as well. I’m glad I was able to hear it being reinforced.
Thank you both so much for all you do!
Your blessings Father Josiah!🙏 What a great and clear explanation, as always!!! Thank you!
Perhaps the heretic hunters on social media will see this and stop slandering Fr Josiah now 🙏🏻☦️🙏🏻
On what basis do they say he's a heretic?
@@colmwhateveryoulike3240 I’m pretty sure some people argue Fr. Josiah is “soft” about the Church’s position on the heterodox.
@@maxcarvalho9071 Surprising. He and Fr Peter Heers are the two hardest on heterodox I've comr across. Neither are absolutists or proud enough to second guess God.
@@maxcarvalho9071 I think he is soft on heretics and it can affect some to ecumenism
@UCc2pqGGq9rCVJWNP68l1vxw Yes I suppose it's always harder to write people off when you actually know them. Probably why pharisees were so horrified by who Jesus hung out with and loved.
This was excellent.
But Jesus said to him, “Do not forbid him, for he who is not against us is on our side.”
I think if protestants are being honest and consistent with their beliefs they would be against Orthodoxy. Where I come from, they'd accuse Orthodoxy of being works based salvation legalistic tradition separated from the Holy Spirit. They are quick to condemn anyone who rejects their understanding of what salvation is.
@@dw4270
I was raised Protestant but never fully embraced Reformed theology. I later studied the history of RC and the Orthodoxy. I have no difficulty accepting the doctrinal teaching of the ROCC which I am in agreement with.
Important topic. Thank you.
How do you stop secularism from becoming a problem in the Church?
Where can I find the song in the end?
Tack för en fortsatt bra podd!
Blessed. Thank you for that. ;)
Some Orthodox writers say that there was an Eighth Oecumenical Council in 879, which was attended by papal delegates and which condemned the Filioque. How did delegates from Spain, Portugal and England speak and vote at this Council, and what did they report back?
I am concerned with the end response “ so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth”.... I did not expect such an abuse of scripture from 1 Corinthians 14:24-25 which states “but if all prophesy, and there come in one that believe th not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: And thus are the secrets of his heard made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God and report that God is in you of a truth”.
This has to do with prophecy and not the surrounding beautify of the church. This goes against what Saint John Chrysostom taught as well as Saint Ambrosiaster. It is also not taught among other Orthodox scholars.
He said the fear of God etc in the church, not the beauty in the church. I don't know why he would assume that would never happen at Protestant churches, as there are myriad, he wouldn't know
Oh good. Thanks for this.
being unable to comment on patristic nectar films today 12 january 2022 about a website i just discovered on sunday 9 called father mark r in diocese st louis usa i would like to recommend to viewers/with visual defects/now have videos on papacy
The fear of God, our Creator , is the beginning of wisdom.
I gave the video a like even though I totally disagree with father Josiah. Evangelical Christians that are born again or not Heterodox If they believe the fundamental doctrines of the faith including the Trinity and the substitutionary atonement which is downplayed or denied by eastern orthodoxy
as a Catholic I think of our saints vs EO and it is obvious Orthodox saints are the real deal. what can Catholics offer in return?
Strange thing to hear from Catholic, I would have said that bad theology produces lack of saints but I don't know about Catholic saints, and Muslims probably produce far more "saints" of their own, so...
@@tanjaeubanks I meant their equivalent of saints, in their understanding whatever is equivalent or similar to our saints
@@FirstnameLastname-py3bc I don't think they have an equivalent tho. They're Very different from us, you wont actually hear about misticism in Islam if you're not a mutfi, the majority of people in Islam only follow Sharia law and don't actually live their dogmas. In Orthodoxy the dogmas are part of ones life, not Just a set of rules that organize worship, but they express the Truth, our Divine Liturgy is exactly that.
Sorry, what is EO??
@@joannajones8533 Eastern Orthodoxy
There are very few Orthodox churches in my country and so being Orthodox isn't much of an option. I do pray that one day we will all be one Church again but it won't be in my lifetime. I do listen to lots of Orthodox teaching online though.
Think what situation people were in at the apostles time! I think that if one believes something is true they have to follow that truth and do the best out of a bad situation. Today there are many Orthodox churches in the USA (if you live there) and you should be able to find one in your area. But I do understand what you are saying and I know that many people live far away from a congregation. In that case, God's grace will cover everything laking. But if you were to believe in the Orthodox faith, don't let anything stop you, even if that would create some difficulties. You can always contact the nearest priest and discuss your situation
The Royal Path...not erring to the right or to the left. Fr Seraphim Rose would approve! Fr Peter too!
I would give a general warning that you may be good at knock'em down sectarian polemics, but it does nothing to advance your prospect of salvation. It would be better to promote your own religion in a positive and constructive way. In that spirit, in this month of September I would recommend that everyone learn to say the Chaplet of the Seven Sorrows of Our Lady, which is particularly relevant on September 15th. This chaplet is also known as the Servite Rosary.
Highlight the text "Servite Rosary" with your mouse, right-click and then search the Internet for more information. This is a useful skill to have anyway.
Does the Orthodox Church have a mission to England, and if so, does it endorse the use of the word "papist" to describe Roman Catholics like myself? I have issue warnings on the Internet against using this term, but people calling themselves Orthodox insist on continuing to use it. Have they cleared it with the official mission in England? Actually getting a straight answer to a straight question from anyone in the Orthodox Church can be difficult, speaking from experience.
Our Saints use "Papist" as it is an accurate descriptive of the Ecclesiology of the Roman Church. In that it requires a Pope to function according to Dictus Papae, Vatican 1, the Council of Trent and many other events.
@@acekoala457 Thankyou. In England "papist" is a hate-word used by extreme Protestants.
I watched this same Priest talk to a group of people about the falsehood of Fatima. He told them the three children of Fatima was three sisters. In all reality, they were three cousins, two girls and a boy. He also told this group of people that Catholics no longer go to confession which is totally false. This Priest needs to get his facts straight and stop his lying.
Proverbs ch 6 tells us; “ there are six things the Lord hates and the seventh is an abomination.” # 6 are those who tell lies. # 7, the abomination, are those who cause discord. This Priest, is guilty, of both!
I know what video you're talking about.
He never said that RCs never go to confession. He has stated a disappointment in that the Latin Diocese of LA they only have 52 Confession Hours a Year for around 500k Roman Catholics, many of them Minorities, so the Diocese has failed them in a Sacramental duty. Many of these folks end up in Orthodoxy as the OC and LA Counties have a growing Orthodox Presence even among the Hispanic Community.
Some of the Catholic-bashing Orthodox videos that I have seen have comments turned off. Can I assume that they are just the Voice of the Kremlin? At least the Learned Father Trenham is OK and is speaking on his own behalf, so please hear him out.
I have come across one or two Catholic websites where comments are also turned off, but where I suspect that the Orthodox might like to comment. If they are are unable to do so, then I call this cowardice on the part of the producers.
Very intense.... highly intense. Yet you have all my attention!
As a former Roman Catholic I have run into the " two lungs " narrative per JPII. They often desire unity so much more than Orthodox do minimizing our differences.
As a former RC and now Ortho, what are you thoughts on the 2 lungs narrative and all the western Marian Apparitions like Fatima etc.
I absolutely agree that the Catholic Church seems to desire unity more than the Orthodox. As a Catholic, I desire the Orthodox to come back to the fold of the Church that Christ founded on Peter.
@@paulpeter2869 There can only be one true Church so I don't believe the branch theory. The Catholics have lost so much of their traditions that they look to the East because we haven't lost any. For example, Theophany used to be a 'holy day of obligation " for them and now it's not. It's one of our most beautiful feasts and the blessing of the Great Waters essential. I don't believe the apparitions were authentic.
@@paulpeter2869
I’m a former RC, now Western Rite Orthodox, and have brought my whole family, my mother, sister brother in law and their six children. And I did this, in part, by choosing to remain agnostic on certain issues like Fatima. The idea of Fatima had played a MAJOR part in my maternal Grandfather’s rehabilitation from PTSD (or “Shellshock” as it was called) after WW1. That war had shaken shattered the faith of countless survivors, in many ways spelling the beginning of the End of Christendom in Europe, at least most of Protestant Europe, leaving a wide door for increasing secularism to take over. However, Catholics tended to recover much better than Protestants, because they now believed they had an answer to that terrible question: WHY; What was purpose, the MEANING in all that suffering? Fatima offered as very healing answer for men like my grandfather, an answer other denominations lacked. Orthodox who have their nuanced skepticisms of Fatima fail to account for things like that, the immeasurable GOOD it did for Catholic gentlemen, that it made them certain that their suffering was not in vain, and so gave them the strength to resist despair and hold onto their faith. There’s also the problem of Orthodox critics usually only seeking to debunk Fatima exclusively from Rome’s biased perspective. Their dogmas prevent them from interpreting the alleged prophecies in a potentially Orthodox way. They HAVE to assume that the so called “Bishop in White” of the Third prophecy was to be a Roman bishop and plausibly a pope. Yet by the time it was shared publicly, the best they could come up with was JP2 being shot with a small caliber bullet. NOTHING like the torture the Bishop is said to suffer in the prophecy, not even close. But then I read, in detail, all the horrific things the Bolsheviks did to Saint Tikhon, and when I saw the date he was captured by them, I got goosebumps. He was captured within just a few days of the final Apparition. HE fits the bill VERY closely. So, I can’t just throw the idea away, but will not believe in it either. That’s an allowable position for an Antiochian Orthodox to hold, as far as my priests and research can tell, and it was very useful towards easing my mother and sister into the faith. That MAYBE it was a legit apparition. And what even better, since their conversion, they’ve learned to let it go as a dogma and just hold it towards the side as a possibility. After all, there’s a good case against it entirely, too, Jay Dyer having the hardest to poke holes in, although again, he hasn’t addressed the possibility that Rome was simply misinterpreting everything because of the baggage of their false dogmas. Still, I’m thinking of replacing the Fatima prayer in the rosary with one of the ones accompanying Out Lady of Walshingham, the last certain western Orthodox Marian apparition. Better safe than sorry.
@@markrome9702 the church was founded on Christ. The rock Christ referred to was the very unholy ground outside the city of Bushan
Very good thank you
Oh interesting - Fr. Josiah would re-baptize “heterodox” Christians?
There is no Baptism outside the Church.
There are no Christians outside the Church.
You are begging the question.
I wonder if Fr. Trenham's friend attends the parish in Tokyo.
Yes you speak like there’s one Eastern Orthodox Church? But there are 14 or 16 something like that autocephalous body some of which are in schism with each other. So there is not one Orthodox Church there are several
Amazing how someone so wonderful could claim only the Eastern churches have the true faith. While claiming to honor the scriptures, he misquotes 1 Corinthians 14. The passage speaks of people PROPHESYING when someone enters...not reciting a liturgy. Other priests have also made blunders trying to base their points on God's word. They place tradition as supreme....above the authority of God's word. Orthodoxy is based on the word of God....all who hold to the essentials.
we know you consider protestants as hieratics and protestants consider you as idol worshippers as pagans. so 2 side of history.
1 Corinthians 1,10
You could be reminding everyone that the Didache recommends that we say the Lord's Prayer or Our Father three times a day. You would be teaching the non-orthodox as well, but you could just make your recommendation and hope for the best. This is called being constructive.
Instead we see loads of anti-Catholic stuff from the Orthodox Church which is merely an invitation to polemics. Mentally I move a motion of Previous Question. Should I respond to the latest round of rubbish or get on with promoting my own beliefs? If I take the bait, God may not be all that impressed ("You have a clear view of the speck in your neighbour's eye, but you do not see the beam in your own eye"). I don't have the complete answer here, but I think I will make some effort to be constructive.
Here in England I am promoting St John Fisher's Prayer for Holy Bishops:
Lord,
According to Thy promise that the Gospel should be preached throughout the whole world,
Raise up men fit for such work.
The Apostles were but soft and yielding clay,
Till they were baked hard by the fire of the Holy Ghost.
So, good Lord, do now in like manner again with Thy Church militant,
Change and make the soft and slippery earth into hard stone,
Set in Thy Church strong and mighty pillars that may suffer and endure great labours:
Watching, poverty, thirst, hunger, cold and heat.
Which also shall not fear the threatening of princes, persecution, nor death,
But always persuade and think with themselves to suffer with a good will,
Slanders, shame, and all kinds of torments,
For the glory and praise of Thy Holy Name.
By this manner, good Lord,
The truth of Thy Gospel shall be preached throughout all the world.
Therefore, merciful Lord, exercise Thy mercy, show it indeed upon Thy Church.
and all churches could benefit from a prayer like this. However in your sectarian fanaticism you would refuse to say it because you say John Fisher was a filioquist heretic. Presumably the various bits of the Orthodox Church are going to get back together again and mount a joint mission to England to persuade me of that. When will it happen?
New technology gives us new means to pursue the aims of Christianity, which I won't hesitate to exploit DV. We might have a Pope who fails to co-ordinate the teaching of the bishops on Amoris Laetitia, and in the case of the Orthodox Church we have a civil war in the Church itself in the Ukraine, but there are other opportunities.
Fr Josiah Trenham only speaks for those within the Orthodox Church who are more on the fundamentalist side of things. Met. Kallistos Ware, Andrew Louth, and many others, do not think in these terms.
Matteus, 23:9 - Ej heller skolen I kalla någon på jorden eder 'fader', ty en är eder Fader, han som är i himmelen.
What is your point . because Lord Jesus Christ call Abraham farher in john ch 8.
@@ΓραικοςΕλληνας
Thanks ! Good question.
Abraham was our Farher in faith.
Your many father is in fals faith and idolatry to.
I meen exactli this :
John, 8:42 - Therefore Jesus said to them, "If God were your father, you would love me, for I came out and have come from God. For I haven't come of myself, but he sent me.
John, 8:43 - Why don't you understand my speech? Because you can't hear my word.
John, 8:44 - You are of your father, the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and doesn't stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks on his own; for he is a liar, and its father.
Not Abraham !
He did GODs will.
You doing own will
Ex: playing theatre plays.
Baptism blasphemous crowd pleasers
Idol and traditions lovers instead GODs will and Commandments.
ALMIGHTY CREATOR of all.
Their own CREATORS.
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Your servants.
So far, just asking for me. Revolutionaries of the World Unite, etc.
Yet who defines what is heterodox? There isn't an authority with the Orthodox Church which can make universal decisions on this. One Orthodox Church believes this while another believes something else. Sola Patres is just one step more than Sola Scriptura which is problematic.
In my opinion, which ought never to be prioritized above the Church's opinion, it really depends on what type of protestantism we are talking about. Some of them aren't as bad as secularists, some of them are worse. I don't want to judge them but I come from very wacky protestantism not just wacky in practice but extremely dangerous in what they teach and how they manipulate minds, all in the name of Christ. It can twist and break your mind in ways atheists never could.
It threatens them with nuclear war.
Goldman Sachs? But I thought usury was forbidden?
There's quite a bit of use of the word "papist" among Orthodox writers to describe Roman Catholics like myself. I would make three comments about this:
(1) In England you will sound like a vulgar yob. Don't be surprised if people ask you what football team you support.
(2) Coloured people who become Orthodox may be dismayed by hearing the sort of language that is often applied to them by racists.
(3) If you use this word in what is supposed to be a respectable discourse, don't expect people to read you.
Will the Orthodox Church now prohibit the use of the word "papist" ?
We use the word here too. It doesn't have the same weird neo-commie political meanings outside your country. It means people who worship the pope, as many people outside the RCC see catholics of doing. That word is found in documents and writings going back centuries.
@@ffs6158 It's the language of hatred.
I am neither Orthodox nor Catholic, but the work papist seems to be a derogatory pejorative word. It's a subtle jab. Why not jus say Catholics.
@@gab31282 Could just say "The Latins" for a short word.
How do Orthodox who work on Sundays attend divine liturgy if its only in the morning?
I assume there's many greek/slavic truckers/merchant marines and grocers so I wouldn't be alone in this situation?
I can make Wednesday or saturday though.
They shouldn't be working on Sundays anyway.
Where does it say we can’t work on Sundays?! Do you know how many Ortho work Sundays!? Many of them. Including me. There are also many Ortho who are police officers, military personnel, pilots, etc. so that’s not true. Yes, in a sense you are right and it is better that we don’t and I agree it’s not ideal. “Shouldn’t” key word is true. But it’s not necessarily wrong or a sin, especially if you have no choice. Obviously, If you are willingly, or purposely, or missing most Sundays over a long term, Then yes, that may be another issue. But occasionally or due to work restraints, line of work, etc. I’ve never met a priest who had issue with that and I’ve discussed it many times with several of them. They get it.
@@zealousideal thanks for answering this question I couldn't find an answer online I've been thinking of attending an OCA church in my area (I'm a Protestant) but it seems you only take the Eucharist on Sunday morning divine liturgy? I can possibly make it 12 or so Sundays a year.
You’re fine. Don’t listen to this guy. We have many in our parish and many parishes I’ve been in that are good faithful Orthodox who sometimes have to work Sundays. (As truck drivers, police officers, military, whatever the case). Yes, it’s not ideal we try NOT to and it’s rare but it happens. I’ve had to grudgingly work many Sundays during my career and I hated it but had no choice. The times I did have a choice or could control it I definitely did not though. Unfortunately, most EO parishes only have the one morning liturgy. Otherwise, you would have to catch a vespers (night service without Eucharist) sometime on another day. Usually they are on Wednesday, Friday, or Saturday nights.
@@jdkayak7868 now that’s a different issue altogether though. You unfortunately cannot take eurcharist unless you are fully chrismated into the Orthodox Church. You would have to first go through the Catachumen period and study and take your time to learn everything. Which is a huge plus and what I love about it. It’s not just a quick ..”pray this prayer and your in “ type of thing. You will actually get classes on everything and can take your time seeking, learning and studying with us first and be comfortable before deciding to convert. But it’s not an issue. People in your case they just have to be more patient and they work with them to help them convert and get Chrismated. There are sometimes online options and other methods too. Also, there are tons of you tubes and online materials now as well as tons of books you can order about the faith.
The only bad thing I would say though for your case… is Orthodoxy is really meant to be experienced, practiced and lived. It’s not like any other faith. You can’t just subscribe to it mentally or scholastically like you can in Protestantism. You won’t really get to understand and know it and experience it unless you are actively in a parish as often as possible. But it’s still do-able. I have family members who are orthodox and don’t even have a parish close enough to attend. Bu they are faithful in all the other details as much as possible and have the orthodox mind.
But don’t let that discourage you if you REALLY want to become Orthodox. I have had to overcome many more obstacles than just that to convert. It took a long time and I had MANY MORE obstacles. But I wanted the truth and to be a part of Christ’s Church so bad that I kept at it until I was able to convert. I’m ex evangelical myself.
Call no man Father on earth. Jesus commands this. This guy is not your father or anybody's, except if he has children. He is sinning against God for allowing himself to be called father.
1. St Paul called himself ”father”
2. “Call no man father” if you are going to take it literally why are you making exceptions to biological fathers? Jesus does not say “except biological fathers” so by your standard you are sinning too
A mad dictator who starts a vicious war can always find an Orthodox priest to explain why he is doing nothing wrong. This is called cesaropapism. The principal enemies of cesaropapism in the English-speaking world are John Fisher, Thomas More and Richard Gwyn among others, and I regard these men as saints. However Father Trenham has an axe to grind about a piece of theology called the Filioque, and does not agree with me. All I can do is to remind everyone of the words of Our Lord Jesus, "Beware of false prophets ... by their fruits shall you know them".
caeseropapism is a slander meme term cooked up by roman catholics
@@TheMhouk2 A horrible war is happening in the Ukraine and the Russian Orthodox Church is doing nothing to relieve human suffering. We "heretical" non-Orthodox types cannot help but notice it.
Looks like Fr. Josiah has been sleeping... The only possible explanation.
Another Pharisee. Sad.
One cannot " set aside portions of scripture. "
The Orthodox Churches do not agree among themselves concerning the validity of the baptism of Cardinal John Newman, recently canonised by the Pope. They recognise some English Saints (Theodore, Cuthbert, Herbert) but reject others (Becket, Fisher, More) even though all these saints have the same position on the Filioque derived from the Council of Hatfield. Becket, Fisher and More took a heroic stand against cesaropapism, and Fisher and More took a stand against divorce, which are not strong subjects for the Orthodox Church. It isn't obvious to me that the description "orthodox" is appropriate. You have nice churches and nice music, but otherwise aren't you just a species of Protestant? I am not pretending here. This Pope sponsors the Scicluna-Grech heresy and would probably have given King Henry VIII a pat on the head. Anyone can look up the SG heresy in L'Osservatore Romano and judge for themselves.
The liar is back! David how many kids have you diddled today?
David is a troll.
@@johnsambo9379 I am a real person who is not much impressed with the Orthodox Church, and especially not since February. The Chief Rabbi of Moscow refuses to go along with that "special military operation" and is now in exile. He puts certain "Christians" to shame. The Orthodox Church is full of trolls rabbiting on about the Filioque, but never about cesaropapism. I've noticed.
MISGUIDED CHRISTIAN VIEWS…..TO SAY THAT SCRIPTURES CAN ONLY BE EXPLAINED AND PROPERLY UNDERSTOOD ONLY THRU THE ORTHODOX CHURCH IS HERESY. WITH FAITH AND VIA THE HOLY SPIRIT, ONE CAN UNDERSTAND THE SCRIPTURES DIRECTLY FROM JESUS….NO INTERCESSIONARY NEEDED BUT JESUS. ORTHODOX ARROGANCE AND TOTAL LACK OF HUMILITY.
The Holy Spirit, also told Saint Silouan, that The Theotokos NEVER committed ANY SINS during Her Lifetime.