The Regressive Left - Sam Harris and Douglas Murray on Regressives
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- Опубліковано 29 сер 2024
- The Regressive Left: Sam Harris and Douglas Murray on the Regressive Left
This is an excerpt from the Waking Up podcast, titled "On the Maintenance of Civilization", in which Sam Harris speaks to Douglas Murray about the regressive left. Harris and Douglas also discuss ethics, politics, religion, Islam, terrorism and war during the rest of the podcast.
You can listen to the entire episode on Sam Harris' website here: www.samharris.o....
Alternatively, you can listen to the entire episode on SoundCloud, here: / o. .
When Douglas gets on a roll, it's best just to sit back and let him get it all out. Produces some amazing monologues.
I prefer to call them rants... I feel the word monologues, doesn't give his edginess enough credit!
You can tell Sam really enjoyed Murrays rant......Bloody love it!
+James Johnson He was losing his shit rofl
I love a great rant....
6:56: "You're a useless person..." one of my favourite Douglas Murray quotations.
I think the proof is in how both of these guys become more nuanced in the arguments over time. The ability to move someone's point of view is the measure of their honesty....if you make a good point they will give it to you.
I'd like to see public discourse get to the stage where people are laughed at if they try those shut down tactics of calling someone a racist or a bigot for criticizing an idea. We have to refine the BS detectors!
+seaglider844 100% agree, the regressive left themselves are being ignorant and bigoted themselves. Its absolutely stunning how un liberal and anti-progressive their, not to well thought of, stance on Islam really is. They have sacrificed free thought to the alter of his hypocritical holiness, the pontiff of pomposity Noam Chomsky (blessed be his name) and his bishops.
Unfortunately I think you're overlooking the degree of self delusion on these matters when it comes to the regressive left. Simply making valid points does not mean that opposition will acknowledge them as such. Just look at Sam Harris' career and you'll see this. His 3 hour discussion over at tyt consisted almost entirely of him making valid points and his opposition consciously denying them because he didn't want to grapple with the truth.
The truth is what we have to fight for, because it's really the one thing the crazy lefties and righties have in common: they despise it. They'll do everything in their power to obscure the truth and peddle their own preferred conception of reality
rainmaker6261
I agree that in these individual cases you'll get deluded insistence of their position....and truth is definitely what we fight for....its all that matters.
I'm hoping we get there quicker by turning the fallacious objection of racism and bigotry in any criticism of Islam into a running joke....which of course it is. We take away this kind of kind of conversation shut down, smear tactic and they are forced to begin dealing with the specifics of the argument. Which is the last thing they want to do because now you have to defend the indefensible.
+rainmaker6261
Cenk Uygur's behavior regarding Sam Harris since that 3 hour discussion has been truly embarrassing--just spiteful petty attacks.
Rather than laughed at, they should be verbally shot down for using terms out of context, then asked if they have any genuine criticisms to the points being made. If they don't, maybe then they can be smirked at. But hey, it's just that I think laughing at such people is so kind.
Douglas Murray is so cool in how posh and pompous he is, YET down to earth and brilliant with great points!
+rockys201 He's not posh, but, yeah, he's brilliat
Mr Murray says the word 'blogger' with such dripping contempt. I have to learn how to do that.
"You're no use for anything" Best Douglas Murray quote ever!
Murray always seems to talk a great deal of sense.
Two very important voices of this time; Sam and Douglas. Keep it up guys!
The very fact that they are so resented, while being consistently rational and fair, proves how irrational and hateful some of the opposition are.
Although Hitchens is irreplaceable I have come to see Douglas Murray as somewhat of a spiritual successor for a while now.
I raise my glass of the best absinthe to Douglas Murray. Douglas, you have won a spot in "the Hall of People Who Rightfully Earn All of My Respects." Cheers :) :) :) :) :)
"I'm gay, I read some of this crap" lmao
That one had me in stitches!
Douglas Murray is just the best !
"The adults have lost their competence"...did I hear it right?
Absolutely hilarious. As if Hitch's boots found a matching pair of feet.
He said confidence I believe but competence is funnier.
im with you mate this guy isn't Christopher Hitchens but close
Yeah, Murray's debate skills are devastating.
He said "confidence".
I think this might be the first time I've heard Sam Harris laughing.
Could be he is using a stunt man.
probably clearing his throat
That was hilarious.
"They sold their souls to the devil and they got stupid in return" haha epic!!
Right just think it will probably result in hundreds of people going to prison.
🤡
This is so brilliant. Thank you uploading this
No worries! (:
6:38, About the size of it all. Even Harris can't help but laugh. Great discussion.
"The problem with Reza Aslan is he just can't stop shagging kids"
I died.
Truth. I love Douglas Murray.
It was good to hear Douglas talk about whether he is left or right. On the one hand, most of his views are fairly right-wing and conservative, but at the same time, he's extremely liberal and recognises the importance of liberty much more than most Brits do.
starryian007 Social conservatism is the believe that we should preserve traditional beliefs and methods - these people are usually religious, pro-monarchy, against gay marriage, against immigration, against drugs, against abortion etc. These beliefs aren't very liberal.
On the other hand, fiscal conservatism is a very liberal belief that people should be taxed as little as possible.
There's other forms of conservatism, and obviously not all 'conservatives' are socially conservative, but many of them are.
Years later still a wonderful conversation and as relevant as ever. I know that Doug’s rant in the middle is what brings everyone here and it’s amazing no doubt. But really the whole conversation is important and should be listened to. In particular the end is very important.
This is by FAR the best good common sense I've heard for a very LONG time.
traaaans gender
traaaans polly gender
This is a very good conversation!
Douglas Murray, what an incisive, to the point video, you have told it EXACTLY how it is, the best youtube vid on youtube.
Man I wish Hitchens was around to weigh in on the very recent antics of the regressive left.
I think the answer to Douglas' question; Why do the adults give in? [in Yale university]Because it's more of a business now than it is an academic institution, the Professors are fearful of a lawsuit at the very least.
+Ronnie James Obviously, he is asking a question that highlights the current political climate
Tom jackson Yes. Rhetoric.
A reverse Faustian bargain? Oh, that one is a keeper :D
Wow. This was a very enlightening talk. I graduated in 2014 and saw the beginnings of this strange social phenomenon happening on campus. I had no idea there are actually people now standing up to it. Good on you. We need a voice of reason amongst this regressivism taking place in schools. Teaching a whole generation of people to be perpetual victims cannot be good for their psyche, and is definitely not good for society as a whole.
Sam and Douglas consistently demonstrate clarity of thought and moral courage, against a tide of deeply regressive liberal elitist but deeply inexperienced individuals. The latter are very sad as they fail to see the damage they do to the serious and often chronic social justice issues that reflect real and present dangers for the poor. These people put their own 'need to be right' above what is actually right.
Douglas Murray is the best!
Interesting video. Good to hear an intelligent conversation
5:43 is where this perfect Murray rant starts
I cannot thumbs up this video enough.
I absolutely love these debates from these two respected, educated, honest men 😀. I'm also very thankful I'm not on the regressive left...I feel liberated 😬
Two absolute geniuses waxing poetic on the regressive left...LOVE IT!!!
That was a beautiful ending. If the weapon that is used against us in the end is our commitment to truth - so be it.
Douglas Murray is emerging as a hero to the Left as well as those on the Right. He makes a lot of sense.
Maybe that's the conservatives in Britain, but in America the two extremes are just as bad as the left Murry described, and there's no room for moderation.
Thank GOD
11:24-12:25: Sam makes the Most important point concerning all areas of this discussion. Students from primary school to university level are taught "what to think" , rather than "how to think", and that politics should erase empirical evidence.
Weird to hear Sam use the phrase "God forbid"
Not sure how Harris can say that he is a Liberal. Liberalism, at least in it's Progressive flavor, has gone off the rails in so many ways.
Seen this (whole) conversation many times before... but one simply cannot get bored of listening to sense. And I love the way Sam giggles at Douglas.... :D
+Birch Williams Agreed!.. It would be like hearing Spock laugh and giggle at something that someone said :) Harris is the Spock of our generation.. or mine anyway.. I'm 44.. he's like 49 or something :)
WigganNuG We're all in the same age group (I'm 49)... Perhaps that is party the reason we have similar thought processes....
one of my favorite things on the 'net
This....this is .....this is perfection. Lol.
I Whole-Heartedly Agree, and feel the same impatience, re: 0:49! This constant need to label, and Be labeled, isn't serving Anyone; especially free-thinking people who don't fit neatly into these limited/limiting, polarizing categories! NO human being should be that linear. And some sentences (just like thoughts), should, and Must be more than 4-5 words long!!
Sam talks about a sense of commitment and urgency when ring-leaders on the Left keep throwing around egregious insults. Douglas then says "it's politics." Yes, but another important dynamic is the ring-leaders' attempt to preserve their own status as leaders. Seeing an opportunity for high-status and influence, I've seen people climb to the top of various liberation groups, and then turn them into, essentially, a cult. Stalinist purges often accompany this process. Makes me sick.
Hilarious rant
WHEN THEY WAS YOUNGER
7 years later and this is just more hilarious.
First time I've listened to Murray. He's bang on, well-fucking said sir!
What a boring man Sam Harris is, but Douglas is brilliant
If only a western politician would speak with this much conviction
Because the adults were once kids and the kids have yet to be adults.
since we're all talking straight, this is what happens in late capitalism, sheltered 1st world middle class mostly white kids get bored of their comfortable lives and start looking for attention. y'all keep it real
Yeah it's pretty annoying
Why did Douglas say that meditation was not good? curious
Islam is in dire need of a liberal reformation
9:29 - 9:43
Heh. He said "shibboleth."
brilliant
I can't find the full podcast, any help?
I wonder if Sam would've laughed, if Douglas had gone on a rant about gays.
This proofs that even clear thinking people such as these two, have their blind spots ...
... one more reason to listen to Sams podcast.
So glad to finally hear someone speak the truth about that talentless girl Jack Monroe.
Dear Mr. Harris - You say in this podcast about how much you admire the ire of Mr. Murray and Mr. Hitchens, and that you wish that you could display it as well. This certainly surprises us. Any expression of anger or fury diminishes ones reasoning abilities to a certain degree, and certainly leans in the negative direction. The extreme left and extreme right display ire all the time. It is this lack of ire on your part that really differentiates you from the rest, and we attributed that to your non belief in free will. When you see everyone as the bio-electro-chemical robots (belchers) that we all are and we voluntarily act in response to all inputs, it makes no sense to get angry. One simply understands and tries to do good for all. It is understood however, that ire helps with ratings, and maybe that is why you wish you had it. We hope not. Stay as you are - one of the wisest beings we have yet encountered.
Indeed sometimes I do feel we, as western society, deserve what's coming.
+The Oracle : Was referring about the preponderance of the Regressive Left; their social dominance. Also how we fail to stand up to our politicians' insane policies, not just suddenly importing vast numbers of unvetted unemployables, as well as castrating the police, videoed running away from demonstrators chanting in a foreign language, with their policy of not arresting any of them, regardless of behaviour.
+The Oracle: Perhaps, & certainly I'll fight to imposition of sharīah law to my last breath. Yet it does seem we're collectively hell bent on our own destruction of western civilisation.
The very idea of "safe spaces" on university campuses is a complete oxymoron; if you can't defend your point of view, you've failed to qualify for university.
+The Oracle: Precisely, which inspired my initial comment; taking collective responsibility for this idiot part of the generation we raised.
6:26 i've seen her jelling at the modest talking administrative person (was it a professor?).. wish she would hear this sentence day in day out for the rest of her live and especialy loud each time she wonders why no one is willing to employ her ..
Best bit starts at 7:32 . Thank me later
Say they were is not that difficult
The explanation of the left's problem is found in understanding the roots of postmodernism.
Grade 10 mathematics teaches us that you cannot reduce multi-dimensional characteristics to a single dimension so that you can compare them. You cannot say (2,3) > (1,1); it is not valid to say that.
Politics is a mega multi-dimensional characteristic. Capitalist/socialist. Racist/non-racist. Hawk/dove. There are hundreds of characteristics that make up a person's political beliefs.
It is mathematically invalid to reduce those complex characteristics of a person to the scalar (i.e. one-dimensional) left-wing/right-wing.
The irony here is off the charts.
fucking amazing!!!!
It's too late to be willing to be black mailed by people insincere in their insults.
"The Left" assume they are in the correct political corner. The idea that they could be wrong is fine as long as they can dismiss their mistake as a "nuance" of the political landscape. Unfortunately, for those on the Right of politics, a mere nuance is non-existent.
Double standards.
Doug's muh dawg
Nope, when people generalise about Muslims that bigotry. Portraying 'true' Muslims as either Jihadis or anti-humanitarian principles is bigotry. Address those who do it, Muslims are not the appropriate group here. It's very simple.
the thing about jihadis and those that support them is that they are following the text.
this is so funny
Specious nonsense. Just makes up new phrases like "regressive left" to cover up his own view that racism doesn't exist ...
Both Sam Harris and Douglas Murray are opposed to racism.
+Gar Sm Where have you seen either of them say that "racism doesn't exist"?
+Gar Sm Where have you seen either of them say that "racism doesn't exist"?
What has Murray ever done to oppose the growth of racism in Europe? If you read many of the comments on him on UA-cam you will see they are explicitly racist. Does he condemn this? No.
Gar Sm you're an idiot. He is interested in having different conversions. That doesn't mean he's harboring racist beliefs. It just means you don't know what he believes about races.
More pseudo intellectual apologetics for far right conservative politics. This is eerily reminiscent of the 1930s with the rise of fascism (e.g. Trump in the US, far right parties gaining seats in Europe). History seems rather cyclical here.
And what I love is that Harris (whom I despise, I won't hide it) is the true 'regressive'--constantly preaching tolerance and acceptance but espousing bigotry and irrational hatred toward those who disagree with him. Also, as we can see here, he is quite comfortable with modern conservatism; it suits him well. If Harris is a liberal (and I do believe he is), then count me out of liberalism. I'd rather be regressive.
Lol you are who they are talking about. You are either a troll or your mind is so infested with shit, you will continue to participate on the with hunt of people who are not as liberal as you. Have fun wasting your life being afraid of the boogeyman.
these guys do a great job of creating straw men, just so they can knock them down. it's pretty sad actually.
Wow, talk about an echo chamber...
Douglas needs to stop paying so much attention to Daily Mail tittle tattle, stop dismissing people as being too young or too left wing (as if that in itself is good enough reason to dismiss their views) and engage with the actual arguments. This excerpt was just a rant with very little substance.
As a left winger, I am appalled at the attacks in Paris and sexual attacks in Germany but I am not going to allow racists to push their agenda against a whole spectrum of people who merely share a skin colour, a gender or a religion.
+JE Hoyes As a left winger you have a duty to preserve the core values of the left by combating racism on the right when it arises. I am right wing, but i champion debate and conscience and will give credit to someone where it is due. HOWEVER, if you are a true left winger, you also have a duty as a left winger to adopt a measure of self-awareness and critical evaluation of your OWN camp. You have to hold the mirror up to your own camp, because there are bigots and racist traitors in your midst that make the right wing bigots look palatable by comparison, and hence people are starting to swell the Neo-Nazi groups. Believing in this whole 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend' nonsense is exactly the type of thinking that opens the doors to Islamic Fascism, because they see a way into the debate (and will turn some weaker minds to the cause in doing so) through the backdoor of grievance - the left's all-consuming desire to overcome the right for decision-making power.
By the way, if we can both agree that the vast majority of people are essentially moderate and undecided, those expressing sympathy to far-right organisations cannot be true racists and bigots as you say, because society operates on a purely binary choice - Action or Inaction. One, or the other. Yes, the nature of choice is essentially a product of black-and-white thought, but you need to engage your analytical hemisphere to deconstruct the reasoning for people turning to the extremes of the political spectrum. I'd say it's a testament to the sorry state we've got to, the over-indulgence in the Anti-Conflict/Inaction train of thought (LIberalism) that has been systematically and institutionally eroding the idea of nationhood since the Second World War (in an attempt to negate the likelihood of conflict on a geopolitical level), that decision-making has been left to the extreme right and the extreme left to dictate the political agenda. It is an inevitable consequence of civilization, this is how they rise and fall, and make no mistake about it, the West IS falling through its policies of inaction and lack of assertiveness when it comes to what we actually stand for.
Judge people on their actions, not on their thoughts.
Peace