History is a personal interest and passion for me, but I'm still the student. With that said the religious perspective shared reminds me how far we've come ...and how man's tribalism can contribute to the worst in us even today. On a lighter note, it was a fascinating treat to hear the positive connections to swiss watchmaking. You do a great job speaking to the facts of watchmaking ...and keeping your reviews objective and positive. No surprise you were succesful in academia. Thank you Bill.
Hey Prof, history has a special place for me ... still interesting. Do you realize that the Swiss constitution didn't remove restrictions against Jesuits until 1973! Not religious myself, but I find it everywhere in cultures ... and I have friends in different Christian sects, Islamic and other religions without conflict. Quoting the Beatles... whatever gets you through the night. Take care Bill.
What a loss for France. Many Huguenots went to Germany also. Berlin Brandenburg. They had big influence on the Country and for sure they are an importand part of development of Germany. I was not aware that the Huguenots had such an importand impact on Swizerland and the history of watch making. Your video was enlightening. Thank you. We need more of such.
Hi EU Supporter, thanks and I am happy you understand and have some appreciation of the historical impact of the Reformation on watchmaking. The Puritans, generally Calvinists, who came to American were instrumental in framing the culture of our society, and watchmaking was a huge industry not far from where I live. Unlike the Swiss, the Americans pretty much gave up mechanical watchmaking with the advent of the quartz watch. Kindest regards, Bill
I think that part of knowing about watches is the history that centered watchmaking in Switzerland. With a Swiss watch, we get a very interesting history. Cheers, Bill
Thanks for this content Bill, (presumptuous using your first name, i know). But i really do love the history and context of watches and watch making, and no other channel that i know of is going any deeper than reviews and popularity contests.
You are absolutely right Tex! Catherine was one of the key characters in the French Wars of Religion. Her daughter, Margo, married a Huguenot, and Catherine had most of the groom's Huguenot family and friends who came to the wedding murdered. Take care, Bill
Hey Paweł, thanks man! I suppose it's pretty short summary of the Reformation and the French Wars of Religions-not to mention Calvinism and his notions of everything from pre-destination to forbidding jewelry in Geneva! Glad you liked! Kindest regards, Bill
More souls have been lost than saved due to religion! An excellent résumé, have a look at an interesting movie: Reine Margot(Queen Margot) which tells what happened within France at that time. Another interesting topic: Christopher Columbus, his origines are mysterious: was he Portuguese, Spanish, or Italian? Again reigning powers decided, was he endorsed by Spain’s Queen? Was religion forcing their views, since the Crusades weren’t far! A quick search on the net will open your eyes on what we learned in schools
Before I saw the film Queen Margot, I had read the book, "The Rival Queens: Catherine de' Medici, Her Daughter Marguerite de Valois, and the Betrayal that Ignited a Kingdom"- I am convinced that he Calatrava Cross (Patek's logo) and the Maltese Cross (VC's logo) are both residues of the Huguenot cross-the Calatrava cross is made up of 4 fleur-de-lis and the Huguenot seal combines both. ( french-genealogy.typepad.com/genealogie/protestants-huguenots/ ) Some years ago some PR wonk from VC tried to explain the logo was a Maltese cross used in stop-movement, but I don't think so. Anyway, like you, I am of no religious bent, but I understand that religions play a huge role for so much history that it should not be ignored. Take care, Bill
Hey Bachmann Manuel, it's one of my favorite videos. I know that it's way too brief for any substantive background...the Reformation in 20 minutes! There's a good book, "Rival Queens" on the roots of the French Wars of Religion. Kindest regards, Bill
Yeah i know, 20min dont "cut the mustard" XD we got through this time period back in my schooldays much more. but for a short background lession 20min its quite good. And we are quite proud for our watch and knife industries.
The Huguenots made it all the way down to Cape Town, South Africa, where I live, and tonight I am drinking a nice Merlot from a local vineyard, thanks to their skill and efforts. Perhaps , since their blood still runs in my veins, this is why I have picked up this affinity for horology... and wine.
Thanks Vintage TimeZone! I always wondered why the Swiss were best known for watch making. Cramming the Reformation into a 15-min video is a bit of a stretch... By the way if you like history, John Biggs "Marie Antoinette's Watch" is a good read--mostly about Abraham-Louis Breguet and how he started watch-making in Paris. By the time he started his work, the conflict between the Catholics and the Huguenots had simmered down--they were getting over the Revolution which took a dim view of religious excesses all together. (Breguet was a Huguenot.)
It was in the latest streaming video Fugee, but if you look at the French Wars of Religion, you'll find that the four fleur de lis that are included in the Huguenot symbols come together to make up the Calatrava Cross. Take care and be safe, Bill😷
The story I got from reading or some documentary a while back was watchmaking started in the valleys of Switzerland as the farmers regularly got snowed in And had to find another income during the winters and turned to watchmaking. Don't know if it is correct or not. What you said was much more detailed!
Hi jfdomega, I read the same thing, but farmers in Russia, Scandinavia, Northern China and Canada were snowed in and did not develop a watch industry. The watch industry in the US was thriving here in New England until the 'Quartz Crisis'-guess who first settled in New England? The Puritans, who were largely Calvinists. After the French Wars of Religion, a lot of Protestants from France fled to Switzerland and Germany, but it was in Geneva where Jean Calvin encouraged the practice of watchmaking as the only form of jewelry-making that was "in God's grace." The fact that the farmers in parts of Switzerland were snowed in was certainly a plus for additional labor, but only in the winter. During growing season and harvest, they had no time for watchmaking. Kindest regards, Bill
@@jfdomega7938 yeah i wouldnt buy this stupid story. instead i would look at history in general ... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years%27_War this pre world war ... which happened in switerland and the banking of course en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banking_in_Switzerland so who needs such an expansive machine like a watch ? well businessmen and royals, buisnesmen needed to know time and the the royals needed to show off so to speak ...SWISS the capital of habburg were perffect for that .. but to be fair in all big cities you had watchmakers .. not just in swtizerland ..its just due to the rise of the france as the world empire and on the other side the austrian hasburg empire ( and many other smaller empires like republic of florance to the south and to the north the german lands ) it was a perfect place to keep money and make expensive gold watches ...factories were more efficient than one man master. and therefore it was economically more interesting to create "Manufactures " (dictionary - make (something) on a large scale using machinery. )... so i persoanlly believe the combination throuout a large time period was the reason why switerland became the capital of the horology. not some idiot ruler who forbid to use jewlery ... actually back then just for info WatchArtSci not many people could even think of affording a jewlery .. and if there is no demand for it its not like hudnrets of workers randomyl switched from jewlery to watchmaking ... although i am sure this also played a small role even if its true
Good informative interesting stuff Bill. Just fell victim to another impulse buy before I got the fund together for my Omega MOTM. Jumped the gun and got a reduced lol. Ah such is life.
got the reduced omega speedmaster - the automatic version with the smaller dial. I know the 41mm manual wind is the iconic true "moon" watch, but to be honest the speedmaster reduced is a good watch in its own right. its 38.7mm diam. The model ref if you want to go take a peek is 3510.50
Very nicely done! What's wrong with 38.7? I'm wearing my 37mm Vacheron Constantin Overseas, and it's just right. Now if you win that big Armani / Exchange, with its 44mm width, will that be too big? ; ) Hang in there, Bill
lol no a 44 would be a welcome addition to the collection - would give a nice range of 34-44 :) lol - keep ticking - I sent you a forbes email re the $2 mill Rolex that sold recently . Maybe that's the next one for you ;)
Bill, I appreciate the generous sharing of your knowledge so freely! It heightens the pleasure of learning about watches. After all, isn’t horological appreciation about the happy marriage of design, engineering, craftsmanship and history? I’d also venture to guess that the Huguenots brought skill and money into the watch industry in Switzerland, at the time a fairly moribund business in that country. It’s probably no accident that many of the finest horological icons of today bear French names.
dang could make this the Dan Brown of watches! symbolism in the trademarks of the "holy Trinity" hmmmmm very interesting concept, maybe anther video on the the top 10 watchmakers trademarks and where they came from...???
Dan Brown, huh? I was hoping for Max Weber, but Dan Brown would be cool too. Vacheron Constantin thinks their logo was derived from an actual watch part: "The manufacture chose the Maltese cross to serve as the business’s logo in 1880. This symbol was patterned after the adjusting cross that was affixed to the barrel to assure a more uniform decline of the mainspring’s tension, thus achieving a more accurate rate." That sounds more politically correct and certainly neutral as far as fanning religious tensions (and watch buyers' decisions); but I think that the symbol is more universal in Switzerland than a watch part. Cheers, Bill
okey well thank you for sharing this intersting video .. but i will stick to the story... that the french (wealthiest elite at the time ) wanted to outsource their production and the germans and the swiss were perfect for that ...
Andy, the Wars of Religion in France that drove the Huguenots to Calvinist Geneva had nothing to do with the elite French; some French elites were Huguenots. Anyway, enjoy your collection no matter what you choose to believe. Kindest regards, Bill
@@watchartsci it wasnt just france ... it was the emperor of holy roman empire vs the pope. u remind me of my father .. who is so closed minded that only what he knows is always right. u cant tell me honestly that some short period of time where the jewellery makers were not allowed to make jewllery and that led to the whole industry became centered in swizetrerland .. hwo idiotic is this story .. i am sorry. and to publish this story as this is the reason why so many watch companies are based in switerland .. completly ignoring the REAL histortical factors factors like the banking, the european wars and switerland being in the middle, switzerland being often neutral .. swiss people historically speaking german frech and italian making it perfect for contracts for strongest and wealthiest clans of europe liek the german speaking Habsurg family, the French Bourbon royal, the house of Savoy ....but most important factors for business were and all will be the political security, and low taxation ... which was both provided in switerland at the best level. money goes where the business opportunity is the best.
No Andy. I am not your father. The Reformation was all over Europe, but the focal point of watchmaking was Geneva, taken over by Jean Calvin (John Calvin in England) and the strict interpretation of the Bible and the repudiation of the material life.. Anyway, it's pointless to have a discussion when you claim to have the "real" historical facts and border on name-calling. So there's nothing more I can say. Cheers and enjoy your collection, Bill
History is a personal interest and passion for me, but I'm still the student. With that said the religious perspective shared reminds me how far we've come ...and how man's tribalism can contribute to the worst in us even today. On a lighter note, it was a fascinating treat to hear the positive connections to swiss watchmaking. You do a great job speaking to the facts of watchmaking ...and keeping your reviews objective and positive. No surprise you were succesful in academia. Thank you Bill.
Hey Prof, history has a special place for me ... still interesting. Do you realize that the Swiss constitution didn't remove restrictions against Jesuits until 1973! Not religious myself, but I find it everywhere in cultures ... and I have friends in different Christian sects, Islamic and other religions without conflict. Quoting the Beatles... whatever gets you through the night. Take care Bill.
What a loss for France. Many Huguenots went to Germany also. Berlin Brandenburg. They had big influence on the Country and for sure they are an importand part of development of Germany. I was not aware that the Huguenots had such an importand impact on Swizerland and the history of watch making.
Your video was enlightening. Thank you. We need more of such.
Hi EU Supporter, thanks and I am happy you understand and have some appreciation of the historical impact of the Reformation on watchmaking. The Puritans, generally Calvinists, who came to American were instrumental in framing the culture of our society, and watchmaking was a huge industry not far from where I live. Unlike the Swiss, the Americans pretty much gave up mechanical watchmaking with the advent of the quartz watch. Kindest regards, Bill
Thanks for the horological history lesson! Very interesting.
I think that part of knowing about watches is the history that centered watchmaking in Switzerland. With a Swiss watch, we get a very interesting history. Cheers, Bill
Thanks Bill
I've never heard this theory before.
It's just history Junior. People were nuts about religion back then.... and bloody minded! Take care, Bill
Bill, Thanks for such an interesting video,.
Hi Dean, this is one of my favorite videos. It gives some perspective beyond the mere business aspects of watchmaking in Switzerland. Cheers Bill
great video as always
Blake, that's one of my favorite and most important videos. I like its historical context for Swiss watchmaking. Cheers, Bill
Thanks for this content Bill, (presumptuous using your first name, i know). But i really do love the history and context of watches and watch making, and no other channel that i know of is going any deeper than reviews and popularity contests.
Never hesitate to call me 'Bill,' because that's my name. Even with my pretensions as a watchmaker! Take care and be safe, Bill😷
I think a current SHOW called “the serpent queen” is very close to the time line you describe here. Hopefully some one can correct me
You are absolutely right Tex! Catherine was one of the key characters in the French Wars of Religion. Her daughter, Margo, married a Huguenot, and Catherine had most of the groom's Huguenot family and friends who came to the wedding murdered. Take care, Bill
Great thanks for the historical informations. Greetings from Poland.
Hey Paweł, thanks man! I suppose it's pretty short summary of the Reformation and the French Wars of Religions-not to mention Calvinism and his notions of everything from pre-destination to forbidding jewelry in Geneva! Glad you liked! Kindest regards, Bill
Interesting story. Quite the whirlwind tour of history in 10 minutes.
Arthur Leyenberger Thanks man! Yes quite the whirlwind and I fear a lynch mob made up of irate historians coming to get me! Kindest regards Bill
More souls have been lost than saved due to religion!
An excellent résumé, have a look at an interesting movie: Reine Margot(Queen Margot) which tells what happened within France at that time.
Another interesting topic: Christopher Columbus, his origines are mysterious: was he Portuguese, Spanish, or Italian? Again reigning powers decided, was he endorsed by Spain’s Queen?
Was religion forcing their views, since the Crusades weren’t far!
A quick search on the net will open your eyes on what we learned in schools
Before I saw the film Queen Margot, I had read the book, "The Rival Queens: Catherine de' Medici, Her Daughter Marguerite de Valois, and the Betrayal that Ignited a Kingdom"- I am convinced that he Calatrava Cross (Patek's logo) and the Maltese Cross (VC's logo) are both residues of the Huguenot cross-the Calatrava cross is made up of 4 fleur-de-lis and the Huguenot seal combines both. ( french-genealogy.typepad.com/genealogie/protestants-huguenots/ ) Some years ago some PR wonk from VC tried to explain the logo was a Maltese cross used in stop-movement, but I don't think so. Anyway, like you, I am of no religious bent, but I understand that religions play a huge role for so much history that it should not be ignored. Take care, Bill
good short explanation of how our watchindustrie startet...
Hey Bachmann Manuel, it's one of my favorite videos. I know that it's way too brief for any substantive background...the Reformation in 20 minutes! There's a good book, "Rival Queens" on the roots of the French Wars of Religion. Kindest regards, Bill
Yeah i know, 20min dont "cut the mustard" XD we got through this time period back in my schooldays much more. but for a short background lession 20min its quite good.
And we are quite proud for our watch and knife industries.
Bachmann Manuel, tell me about your watch and knife industries...do you mean Geneva? Thanks, bill
not Geneva in particular. I mean more the hole swiss watch and knife industries.
Such as; Victorinox, Tissot, Sector, Breitling etc.
The Huguenots made it all the way down to Cape Town, South Africa, where I live, and tonight I am drinking a nice Merlot from a local vineyard, thanks to their skill and efforts. Perhaps , since their blood still runs in my veins, this is why I have picked up this affinity for horology... and wine.
very good video and info
comparing to some watch channels you know the history quite well
regards
Thanks Vintage TimeZone! I always wondered why the Swiss were best known for watch making. Cramming the Reformation into a 15-min video is a bit of a stretch... By the way if you like history, John Biggs "Marie Antoinette's Watch" is a good read--mostly about Abraham-Louis Breguet and how he started watch-making in Paris. By the time he started his work, the conflict between the Catholics and the Huguenots had simmered down--they were getting over the Revolution which took a dim view of religious excesses all together. (Breguet was a Huguenot.)
What's the video where you discuss the Patek Philippe logo?
It was in the latest streaming video Fugee, but if you look at the French Wars of Religion, you'll find that the four fleur de lis that are included in the Huguenot symbols come together to make up the Calatrava Cross. Take care and be safe, Bill😷
The story I got from reading or some documentary a while back was watchmaking started in the valleys of Switzerland as the farmers regularly got snowed in And had to find another income during the winters and turned to watchmaking. Don't know if it is correct or not. What you said was much more detailed!
Hi jfdomega, I read the same thing, but farmers in Russia, Scandinavia, Northern China and Canada were snowed in and did not develop a watch industry. The watch industry in the US was thriving here in New England until the 'Quartz Crisis'-guess who first settled in New England? The Puritans, who were largely Calvinists. After the French Wars of Religion, a lot of Protestants from France fled to Switzerland and Germany, but it was in Geneva where Jean Calvin encouraged the practice of watchmaking as the only form of jewelry-making that was "in God's grace." The fact that the farmers in parts of Switzerland were snowed in was certainly a plus for additional labor, but only in the winter. During growing season and harvest, they had no time for watchmaking. Kindest regards, Bill
WatchArtSci thanks bill for the explanation I appreciate it.
@@jfdomega7938 yeah i wouldnt buy this stupid story. instead i would look at history in general ... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years%27_War this pre world war ... which happened in switerland and the banking of course en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banking_in_Switzerland so who needs such an expansive machine like a watch ? well businessmen and royals, buisnesmen needed to know time and the the royals needed to show off so to speak ...SWISS the capital of habburg were perffect for that .. but to be fair in all big cities you had watchmakers .. not just in swtizerland ..its just due to the rise of the france as the world empire and on the other side the austrian hasburg empire ( and many other smaller empires like republic of florance to the south and to the north the german lands ) it was a perfect place to keep money and make expensive gold watches ...factories were more efficient than one man master. and therefore it was economically more interesting to create "Manufactures " (dictionary - make (something) on a large scale using machinery. )... so i persoanlly believe the combination throuout a large time period was the reason why switerland became the capital of the horology. not some idiot ruler who forbid to use jewlery ... actually back then just for info WatchArtSci not many people could even think of affording a jewlery .. and if there is no demand for it its not like hudnrets of workers randomyl switched from jewlery to watchmaking ... although i am sure this also played a small role even if its true
@Toto CH I cannot speak French ... read a little but not much. Tell me what is Dufour's point? Thanks, Bill
@Toto CH
Good informative interesting stuff Bill. Just fell victim to another impulse buy before I got the fund together for my Omega MOTM. Jumped the gun and got a reduced lol. Ah such is life.
Hi Rusty; so you fell off the wagon? Do I know that feeling! So many watches; so little time! (...and money.) What did you get? Cheers, Bill
got the reduced omega speedmaster - the automatic version with the smaller dial. I know the 41mm manual wind is the iconic true "moon" watch, but to be honest the speedmaster reduced is a good watch in its own right. its 38.7mm diam. The model ref if you want to go take a peek is 3510.50
Very nicely done! What's wrong with 38.7? I'm wearing my 37mm Vacheron Constantin Overseas, and it's just right. Now if you win that big Armani / Exchange, with its 44mm width, will that be too big? ; ) Hang in there, Bill
lol no a 44 would be a welcome addition to the collection - would give a nice range of 34-44 :) lol - keep ticking - I sent you a forbes email re the $2 mill Rolex that sold recently . Maybe that's the next one for you ;)
Bill, I appreciate the generous sharing of your knowledge so freely! It heightens the pleasure of learning about watches.
After all, isn’t horological appreciation about the happy marriage of design, engineering, craftsmanship and history?
I’d also venture to guess that the Huguenots brought skill and money into the watch industry in Switzerland, at the time a fairly moribund business in that country. It’s probably no accident that many of the finest horological icons of today bear French names.
dang could make this the Dan Brown of watches! symbolism in the trademarks of the "holy Trinity" hmmmmm very interesting concept, maybe anther video on the the top 10 watchmakers trademarks and where they came from...???
Dan Brown, huh? I was hoping for Max Weber, but Dan Brown would be cool too. Vacheron Constantin thinks their logo was derived from an actual watch part: "The manufacture chose the Maltese cross to serve as the business’s logo in 1880. This symbol was patterned after the adjusting cross that was affixed to the barrel to assure a more uniform decline of the mainspring’s tension, thus achieving a more accurate rate." That sounds more politically correct and certainly neutral as far as fanning religious tensions (and watch buyers' decisions); but I think that the symbol is more universal in Switzerland than a watch part. Cheers, Bill
okey well thank you for sharing this intersting video .. but i will stick to the story... that the french (wealthiest elite at the time ) wanted to outsource their production and the germans and the swiss were perfect for that ...
Andy, the Wars of Religion in France that drove the Huguenots to Calvinist Geneva had nothing to do with the elite French; some French elites were Huguenots. Anyway, enjoy your collection no matter what you choose to believe. Kindest regards, Bill
@@watchartsci it wasnt just france ... it was the emperor of holy roman empire vs the pope. u remind me of my father .. who is so closed minded that only what he knows is always right. u cant tell me honestly that some short period of time where the jewellery makers were not allowed to make jewllery and that led to the whole industry became centered in swizetrerland .. hwo idiotic is this story .. i am sorry. and to publish this story as this is the reason why so many watch companies are based in switerland .. completly ignoring the REAL histortical factors factors like the banking, the european wars and switerland being in the middle, switzerland being often neutral .. swiss people historically speaking german frech and italian making it perfect for contracts for strongest and wealthiest clans of europe liek the german speaking Habsurg family, the French Bourbon royal, the house of Savoy ....but most important factors for business were and all will be the political security, and low taxation ... which was both provided in switerland at the best level. money goes where the business opportunity is the best.
No Andy. I am not your father. The Reformation was all over Europe, but the focal point of watchmaking was Geneva, taken over by Jean Calvin (John Calvin in England) and the strict interpretation of the Bible and the repudiation of the material life.. Anyway, it's pointless to have a discussion when you claim to have the "real" historical facts and border on name-calling. So there's nothing more I can say. Cheers and enjoy your collection, Bill