The “Combat Pants” are modeled based on the real Crye Precision G3 combat pants and are made of 50% nylon and 50% cotton (NYCO) making them fully vegan friendly. (:
You may be allowed to wear the chemical boots, they can't be harvested (so no leather), I assume they are plastic to sustain chemical damage. I think I prefer to see the 500 days challenge sequel, but I understand it kind be more interesting for new viewers to see a challenge from the start.
@@simon4321 I still use birch bark, old man's beard lichen and rose hips after more than 800 days. I suppose I could get by without them if I made sure to preserve antiseptic. Clothing would also suffer, though not as much as by excluding animal skins. The real problem is fuel for fires.
@@JonathanRossRogers Fish = fighting scurvy + fuel. Actually you don't really need fuel if you make multiple torches before entering a dark area and light them up like in this video once they are about to go off
In my opinion, what you get from running shoes is artificial (synthetic) leather so it's vegan. They just don't differentiate between natural and artificial leather to keep the game simple (similar to lamp oil which can be kerosene or fish oil). Besides: have you ever tried to walk a long distance in difficult terrain without any shoes? I think there should be some in-game penalty for doing so, e.g. reduced speed & health loss).
@@tjj4labdespite what old comedy movies might have told you, oil is -old- forests. There never was enough fauna mass even over millennia to get the amount of oil.
@tjj4lab Kerosene is not an animal product. It's made from crude oil, a petroleum product. One could argue that petroleum itself was partially made from microscopic non-plant sea organisms. Because they were not truly animals as we think of them today, and it was millions of years ago, most vegans consider petroleum products to be vegan.
I can guarantee you 100%, when the global economy collapses soon, no money to buy food, if all a vegan finds is some kind of meat product, they will definitely eat it to kill the pain of their stomach eating itself. either that or they're going to be out munching grass and weeds like a cow. they won't last long doing that. the true vegan fanatics will choose to literally starve to death purposely then to eat meat.
Would like to see it continued, since the real challenge starts when getting closer to day 50, when the weather is much colder, and lack of clothing options is making things much more difficult.
Some of my friends have suggested featureless challenges. Basically, hugely difficult challenges with no feats and an extra twist thrown in with custom on Interloper. Some of those twists involve no torches, no crafting, no stones, more wolves, no travelling between reigons and no starting fires.
Honey is non-vegan. So no granola bars. Bow is non-vegan bc it requires guts. Both arrows could be considered non-vegan bc they require feathers but you don’t have to hurt an animal to get the feathers. So maybe those could be considered vegan.
@@redunderscorethere is quite a lot of discussion about that within the vegan community. Strictly speaking both eggs and honey are not vegan by a long shot because getting them means exploiting animals one way or the other. Found feathers would be different though IMO.
Carrion would be vegan. He's neither hurting, nor exploiting an animal. As well as guts from found corpses. And found feathers. He can even make deer shoes and paints, that would be vegan, if made strictly from carrion
the oil thing us a bit of a misnomer..... In actuality its the compressed biomatter from before the time of the dinosaurs really(before certain critters came about most things just died and chilled on the ground creating layers of everything, thats the SUPER simple explination). It is a mix of both animal and plant but is usually considered by most vegans I know to be far beyond the animals they once were. Its more about direct animal to product relationship, not animal to decomposed critter, to liquified, to buried....... lots of steps there. Also there are a lot of leather substitute products out there, some of which you can really only tell by the feel of the item(never found one that felt the same) and those are usually animal product free. I bet there is a wool substitute as well but don't quote me on that. FYI I an not a vegan, I just have vegan friends. I don't understand why people would do it in real life, but i suppose a challenge in a game is cool.
I enjoyed this challenge just like all of them, but this one had me watching closely for non vegan items for sure, which I found fun honestly. I know fleece can be either from a sheep or yak or it can be synthetic polyester too. I would agree tho that those mittens are synthetic. Honey is non vegan of course, I think that’s what zak realized later. My opinion, although not written, the crampons do look like the straps could be made of leather. Love your content Zak, thank you for always entertaining us with these new approaches!
This is a much more interesting challenge than I had first thought… I think the non-vegan granola was an honest mistake so no reason to start over. I think the running shoes are safe and like you conjectured, getting leather from harvesting is just a game convention. However, crafting improvised crampons requires leather, and though the regular crampons don’t specify, I assume those straps are leather, though perhaps it’s just following that same convention. I am curious if surviving with only birchbark is still possible, so if you do continue this run, maybe you could pretend that you had gone through all the other world resources and were in the late-game stage…or maybe that’s its own run another day.
Vegan granola In think that you should be able to use the running shoes. They look like proper running shoes (my Hokas and New Balances have no leather whatsoever). Getting leather from harvesting them is just a game mechanic simplification. Repairing them with leather is out, but… what if the “leather” came directly from harvesting a second pair of running shoes 🤔. Also running around with no shoes is a bit silly. It’s just a game, of course, but you’d have frostbite in no time IRL. Allow yourself some shoes. The fleece mitts are fine as far as I can tell. Fleece refers to the type of fabrics, which are synthetic. This is a good series. I’d watch a second episode. Thank you!
2 місяці тому+1
mining boots are made of plastic but arent repairable
I think the running shoes are possible to use. The leather does not have to mean leather as such. In our language we sometimes call it artificial leather. It can be this case.
This is a great challenge. A long time ago during Beta, I think a guy named Gamer Nate attempted to survive on only cattails. Of course, this was back when there was only ML, PV, TM, CH. Once again, this is terrific.
I think I would save all rosehip and get cooking to lvl 3 with other teas and cans, (a longer process I know) but for long term rosehip pies seem a more efficient use of flour on a vegan run. Side note, the granola uses honey definitely, but the chocolate is very possibly non dairy in some very large countries
this just makes me wish we could do some sort of hydroponics or a kind of farming in the game, creatures made of meat respawn but Outright Edible plants dont really.
Honestly I personally believe that wool, like honey, is vegan. (Speaking from an NZ farmers perspective). Like honey, sheep need their fleece sheared off. Otherwise you get cases like sherk the sheep. He disappeared into the hills and was found unable to move because of the amount of wool on his body. While historically sheep would lose their wool when the seasons change, modern sheep no longer have this ability. Also (at least in NZ), our sheep are generally treated quite well. The economic reasoning is happy sheep = better product. The human side of it is because we care about them! We want to have happy healthy animals and take great care to ensure that they have a good life. Thats my 2¢ at least 😅
on the down vests, they would most likely be made of a synthetic down, since it's less expensive, quick drying, and can still offer decent insulation if it gets wet, so most people would buy the synthetic. also, i can't count how many vegans i have seen with an earing or some other little trinket with a real feather on it. i have even been on hikes with vegans that have picked up a feather and put it in their hair, hat, or behind their ear. so even if it is real down, i say go ahead and wear them. but if you don't want to wear the down vests, then i would say that harvesting the cloth is fine. actually better than fine, cuz you can then release the down back into the wild lol ‼O!!! if you don't get any feathers when harvesting the down vests, then they must be made with synthetic down, right?
I would count the running shoes as vegan because the vast majority of those types of shoes use all synthetic materials (with the possible exception of rubber).
This was a fun video. Wool: I'd argue that wool is a renewable resource and is obtained without destruction or harm. Sheep are unharmed by the sheering process. In fact, they benefit from the sheering process. This stands in contrast to animal or fish whereby their pelts or meat can only be derived by a 'destructive' process. I'd argue wool does not compromise the vegan lifestyle, however, some vegans may argue to the contrary. Running shoes: Running shoes are constructed of petroluem based materials and do not utilize animal leather. Even the glue adhesives are synthetic. While the game mechanic breaksdown the shoes into leather, it is logical to overlook this a simple game mechanic. I'd argue that the running shoes would not be considered vegan and can be worn. Honey: As stated below, honey is made BY bees and is not made FROM bees - unlike Milk. While I'm not a vegan, my good friends were vegans and didn't have issues with Milk - because it didn't harm the animal. Kinda like my argument with Wool. From that standpoint, the Granola bars and Chocolate bars would be acceptable. Guess it all depends upon how you set up your terms. Down: Agree this is not acceptable. Body feathers are often harvested from ducks and geese raised for meat, so it's an easy call. Cramp-Ons: If you look at the construction materials, you need 2 x cured leather. You should NOT be wearing the cramp-ons. Period.
@@simon4321 well no, beekeepers have a symbiotic relationship with bees. And all things being equal, honey is bee poop. Eggs are basically a chicken period, and in an idyllic society I can see eggs falling under the same honey/wool umbrella, but because milk and eggs have become grease for the wheel of the mega capitalism machine and we can't HAVE nice things, they don't fallen under veganism. But like... Literally no one is enslaving bees. They'll just leave. They have free reign. Don't make your bees happy? They leave. Wool is trickier.
You wore the shoes for a day or so before deciding they were forbidden.... So the granola bar is kinda the same thing. Do ten Hail Mary's as penance and put it behind you. ;).
Vegan Granola. I'm not a vegan, though I know some. All the ones I know vary in how strictly they adhere to veganism. So, in response to your question about how vegan you should go in a future video, I think a better option would be for *you* to decide what type of vegan your character is going to be. Explain in your video which kind of vegan, or what variations on 'commonly accepted' veganism you are using, and then play the game according to what *you* decide. There is always going to be someone who will criticize and say, "That's not *real* veganism. That's fake." Well, it's a game. And if they don't like it, they can keep scrolling through their UA-cam recommends for another channel. :) You have always shown yourself to be consistent in trying to do the best you can at whatever type of behavior modifications/game restrictions you apply to your game play and in living up to the requirements in good faith. Nobody has a right to ask more of you. Keep doing what you're doing. I'm here for it regardless. Thank you for another great video. :)
Vegan granola. Regarding to shoes, sports shoes use syntethic leather, so I guess it's safe to use those... As for the challenge itself I do like it, not because it's something that I would try myself, but I do use the wisdom from such tricky situations...
Vegan granola. I think the nylon shoes only have a little leather trimming. I don't think it's necessary to start over just because you ate some honey, but if it would make you feel better..... I would watch if you made a part 2, of course.
would be interesting to know, what vegans actually would do incase such a scenario would be real avoiding meat at all cost or actually eating it to survive
I'm only 13:00 in but I think I found the mistake you told us to watch for. The oil lamp. The oil is made from animal/fish fat so would not be vegan I would think.
@@Zaknafein Vegan granola. lol Now that I made it to the end I know the answer but I didn't catch it myself. I still think that lamp oil wouldn't be vegan. The running shoes are questionable. They should be but since they take leather to repair and you get it for salvaging them I'd still have to go with not vegan. Spoiler: As for eating the granola, I honestly didn't even know honey wasn't vegan. In my defense I've never known a vegan in my life. I for one wouldn't hold it against you.
@@Zaknafein 3:27:43 Since we now have a list of ingredients, I looked up the legal Canadian definitions, which are not as clear as I'd assumed. It seems that a product labeled "chocolate" may contain "less than 5 per cent total milk solids from milk ingredients." This is distinct from "milk chocolate" which must contain milk solids and milk fat. So, you were correct to say that a vegan would have to avoid something labeled simply "chocolate" unless it were made explicit that it contained no milk. laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/C.R.C.,_c._870/page-22.html?txthl=chocolate#s-B.04.006
Well... technically... "The majority of petroleum is thought to come from the fossils of plants and tiny marine organisms." so... technically, all oil-based products (nylon) ... may not be morally acceptable?
No down stupid! 😂 Love all of these challenges and I don’t think mistakes should automatically end the run. Maybe you should have a penalty for eating non vegan like induced inflection. Again really love the content and I look forward to the part 2!
For those who are wondering, I myself am a vegan but if I were in a survival situation I would do whatever I needed to do to survive. Animals wouldn’t be my first priority but I would resort to hunting if I needed to.
1:12:02 The granola bar is not vegan. It contains honey. I see Zak noticed this near the end of the video. Vegan granola should be made with maple syrup instead of honey.
The fleece mittens are non vegan bc fleece is condensed/matted wool... There is a chance it's artificial fleece from plastic fibre... But it's the same problem like the running shoes. I'm 99% sure they contain not a bit of an animal and the scrap to leather problem is a simplify the code thing by the Devs... Edit: vegan granola 😋
Vegan granola. I’m not really concerned about the granola bar thing. It was an honest mistake and doesn’t really affect the run or the premise in any real way. You already did the math on vegan food in the game so the premise is a possible one. While I would like a part 2, I don’t know about turning it into a long run. Just enough to show the concept is viable and ways to go about it.
Vegan Granola. It doesn't matter that you ate one by accident. Sneakers are ok. The leather is probably artificial. I would like to see it continue from this point or since you plan to wait for the next DLC releasee you could start over and use it as an opportunity to explore the new content. I liked the idea! Thanks!
If anyone wandering how to get efficient machine you don't have to survive a total of 500 days in a single run to get it you have to survive 500 days in total not in a single run what i'm trying to explaine here is that in your the long dark playtime you have to survive 500 days in your playtime it could be across multiple run or just one all you need to do is survive a total of 500 days
I would say that the shoes are likely fake leather/cloth and not a real animal product, and therefore fine to use as part of the vegan challenge. I think most of the other found footwear is more likely real leather and therefore not ok. I would also argue that getting cloth from things like down vests and whatnot is vegan as you arn't using the animal product but still recycling the "non-animal" part. I would also say picking up feathers found in the world should be allowed (no harm done), but ultimately useless as you couldn't make the bow due to guts. Edit to add some vegan granola
I think your mistake was that you said you could use the fire hardened arrows but they require crow feathers so you cannot make them :D and I don't think honey is considered vegan
Its fun to watch , love to see part 2 or 3 .... as i watch to the end dont think it big deal to restart enen me i though honey is ok but who know lol. Shoes I don't think so it's a big problem and vegan G ;)
@@ZaknafeinIsn't there no consensus on whether honey is vegan or not? Some say it's an animal product and therefore not vegan, period, while other say that if bees weren't fine with the honey harvest, they would just leave the beehive for another place; that keeping hives is more like symbiosis: we keep hives safe from other animals and we get honey. Whichever way it lands for the game restrictions is fine, but I think talking about those aspects is important as it allows some people who aren't ready to commit to the 100% 'strictest sense of the word' veganism a way to participate in a degree of veganism without feeling like frauds. Like the people who eat eggs you mentioned.
@@LizardNeedsAnID You just mentioned a big problem inside the vegan "world view". I'm always surprised that vegans don't know the hen always lays eggs, independent of weather it got impregnated or not. Honey is the same thing: wild bees ALWAYS overproduce their honey storage by a large margin (i forgot the numbers but it was at least over 50%). Since wild bees are constantly build and expand their hive they sometimes seal big amounts of comb-rooms forever and never return to them again. There are instances where people found fallen tree trunks almost fully filled with honeycombs inside but only a very small bee family lived at the tip of it. Turns out this family was huge once and expanded so far that there was no more place left so it shrunk to this meagre shadow of once a dominating hive force. Same with cows - they are domesticated since at least early neolithic so now they evolved to compeltely depend on humans. Cows can't give birth without humans helping them and are dependend on additional nutrients from humans in order to stay healthy. Not to mention that cows went through thousands of years of selection so nowadays they overproduce milk like crazy, WAY over what a calf would ever need for growth. Cows suffer A LOT when you don't milk them in time. I personally saw a cow going through crazy pain because of not geting milked in time. It was painful to watch and hear!
hi, when you are harvesting nylon shoes and obtain "leather"; it perhaps may be assumed that this is man made leather. I enjoy a fur-lined jacket as long as the material is synthetic. I hope my 2 cents helps, I am not a vegan, fyi.
as already mentioned - the vast majority of cheap belts are made of fake leather. So unless you play Mr. Fancy-Shmancy chances are it's vegan. Also you don't get even 1 dry leather after harvesting. But you get 2 dry leathers when you harvest Sportsneakers (and no, in the video it was incorrectly assumed that sportsneakers sole could be made out of leather. It's always rubber. you can't do athletics with leather soles) which are in worst case AT LEAST 95% artificial (especially the models used in the game)
Vegan Storytime, years ago I was working a part time job for some cash at a Gas Station, there was this female who would buy a distilled water/jello/random fruit in the morning before her job almost everyday. She decided to spill to me at the register that she was celebrating her 2nd year of becoming a Vegan (I'm a kinda person who wants to see people crumble sometimes), I then asked if she was sure, she said she's been eating a planned meal system for 2 years so far. I then asked her for her for jello back and while holding it asked how long she's been eating jello and which flavor was her favorite, she said she's always enjoyed jello as a snack and it was lemon, I then told her with a subtle grin that she hasn't been a Vegan at all for the last 2 years, she asked what I meant, I told her the average jello brand is made with cartilage from bone marrow to give jello is jiggly consistency.... she then froze for a second and began screaming violently. I stood there with a big smile and asked if there was anything else she wanted to get. She threw the jello in the trash and didn't say a word as she left, she never bought jello again after that.
It seems during this run you're mentioning several points that probably would be incorrect. Kinda like your playing pre-scurvy not even thinking about it in the equation as you speak. None the less Great video 😊
As a Ph. D in chemistry and an amateur runner, I am assuring you, running shoes are plane synthetic fabric. Any running shoes that are made from leather are considered as poorly designed. Since it is clearly stated that those are running shoes, it should be considered as vegan.
My running shoes has leather in it (the white part is made of leather, not synthetic). So does my husband's. The apparel industry doesn't always make sense.
Zak, no big deal about the granola containing honey (I never would have thought of it tbh). I can tell you how you succeeded: You provided amazing content, kept us all entertained as always…and that’s all that matters. Thanks, once again, and can’t wait for your next one!
I'm not vegan but it's in my area of interest. Some of the stuff you said seemed very weird to me(crude oil not being vegan??) and alien to the typical ethical / harm reduction concerns that I associate with veganism. A useful phrase is "to the extent possible and practicable" so for example the ground-up insects in grains and the small animal deaths from crop harvesting don't make those foods non-vegan. It's this clause that makes a lot of the concerns irrelevant in a survival situation. Killing animals for food when you must to survive isn't really at odds with veganism(although if we're good enough at the game, we don't need that to survive.) But the real departure from your rules occurs with found abandoned clothing, food, carcasses, and dead fish washed ashore. All of these are situations where any potential harm has already been done, and now we either make use of the resources or let them go to waste. A real-world counterpart would be making use of the meat, skin, bones, guts, etc of roadkill, which doesn't go against veganism as far as I'm concerned. Or salvaging some leather boots or wool clothing before it's sent to the landfill.
Fully agree. The arguments against "making use" of these situations in our functioning societies is that it would incentive people to simply claim their stuff is roadkill or ethically harvested to avoid the backlash, but that's a capitalism problem, and as you said, not a survival problem. Agreement, but a clarifier for the real world. It still strikes me as odd not to use the found gear that contains, for example, wool, but you have to decide on a metric and that's the most true to form I guess.
Just to clarify, it's fine to apply whatever rules work best for the spirit of the challenge. I just think it's interesting that common vegan stereotypes don't apply in a different setting, largely due to the lack of a market economy incentive structure.
00:02:14 Interesting challenge! On the shoes front, I do know vegans who would prefer to wear second-hand leather rather than new vegan leather shoes, as vegan leather is made of plastic and as such the environmental footprint is higher.
The “Combat Pants” are modeled based on the real Crye Precision G3 combat pants and are made of 50% nylon and 50% cotton (NYCO) making them fully vegan friendly. (:
You may be allowed to wear the chemical boots, they can't be harvested (so no leather), I assume they are plastic to sustain chemical damage.
I think I prefer to see the 500 days challenge sequel, but I understand it kind be more interesting for new viewers to see a challenge from the start.
I was thinking this too. But it's a long ways to ZOC lol.
every expert TLD player is going to rue the day Hinterland decides to add the ability to slip from steep surfaces
Careful, if you keep knocking on the devil’s door he might answer
I see a fellow zomboid player here
@@gabrielneves6602 all hail Spiffo
Yes more zomboid players! I thought I was almost alone
To be fair, in the future you can do the carnivore challenge, where you can't use anything plant-based.
Isn't that just any late-game in tld?
@@simon4321 I still use birch bark, old man's beard lichen and rose hips after more than 800 days. I suppose I could get by without them if I made sure to preserve antiseptic. Clothing would also suffer, though not as much as by excluding animal skins. The real problem is fuel for fires.
What about scurvy?
@@axelastori484 Fish
@@JonathanRossRogers Fish = fighting scurvy + fuel. Actually you don't really need fuel if you make multiple torches before entering a dark area and light them up like in this video once they are about to go off
In my opinion, what you get from running shoes is artificial (synthetic) leather so it's vegan. They just don't differentiate between natural and artificial leather to keep the game simple (similar to lamp oil which can be kerosene or fish oil). Besides: have you ever tried to walk a long distance in difficult terrain without any shoes? I think there should be some in-game penalty for doing so, e.g. reduced speed & health loss).
Kerosene is an animal product, as are plastics in general.
@@tjj4labdespite what old comedy movies might have told you, oil is -old- forests.
There never was enough fauna mass even over millennia to get the amount of oil.
@tjj4lab Kerosene is not an animal product. It's made from crude oil, a petroleum product. One could argue that petroleum itself was partially made from microscopic non-plant sea organisms. Because they were not truly animals as we think of them today, and it was millions of years ago, most vegans consider petroleum products to be vegan.
@@Nick1979BN Oil comes from algae and plankton. Coal comes from trees and plants. Your point still stands, but oil does not come from forests.
In a survival situation I think being vegan isn’t the best idea
I can guarantee you 100%, when the global economy collapses soon, no money to buy food, if all a vegan finds is some kind of meat product, they will definitely eat it to kill the pain of their stomach eating itself. either that or they're going to be out munching grass and weeds like a cow. they won't last long doing that. the true vegan fanatics will choose to literally starve to death purposely then to eat meat.
Absolutely 1000%
Would like to see it continued, since the real challenge starts when getting closer to day 50, when the weather is much colder, and lack of clothing options is making things much more difficult.
Some of my friends have suggested featureless challenges. Basically, hugely difficult challenges with no feats and an extra twist thrown in with custom on Interloper. Some of those twists involve no torches, no crafting, no stones, more wolves, no travelling between reigons and no starting fires.
Sounds like: how to die in less then a week.
Honey is non-vegan. So no granola bars. Bow is non-vegan bc it requires guts. Both arrows could be considered non-vegan bc they require feathers but you don’t have to hurt an animal to get the feathers. So maybe those could be considered vegan.
You don’t have to hurt an animal to get eggs, milk, or honey either so I think feathers are still non-vegan
@@redunderscorethere is quite a lot of discussion about that within the vegan community. Strictly speaking both eggs and honey are not vegan by a long shot because getting them means exploiting animals one way or the other. Found feathers would be different though IMO.
Carrion would be vegan. He's neither hurting, nor exploiting an animal. As well as guts from found corpses. And found feathers. He can even make deer shoes and paints, that would be vegan, if made strictly from carrion
Sports bow would be vegan i think, because it is implied the string is synthetic.
No. Feathers are not vegan. Veganism means you're not using any materials, products or meat from animals. Ethniticy has nothing to do with veganism.
ahhh yes, vegan challenge, aka "how to die in a survival situation"
50- some% said they’d roll over and take it from a wolf if there were no more cattails left.
@@Wabbajank lol i don't doubt it
the oil thing us a bit of a misnomer..... In actuality its the compressed biomatter from before the time of the dinosaurs really(before certain critters came about most things just died and chilled on the ground creating layers of everything, thats the SUPER simple explination). It is a mix of both animal and plant but is usually considered by most vegans I know to be far beyond the animals they once were. Its more about direct animal to product relationship, not animal to decomposed critter, to liquified, to buried....... lots of steps there.
Also there are a lot of leather substitute products out there, some of which you can really only tell by the feel of the item(never found one that felt the same) and those are usually animal product free. I bet there is a wool substitute as well but don't quote me on that.
FYI I an not a vegan, I just have vegan friends. I don't understand why people would do it in real life, but i suppose a challenge in a game is cool.
Love the vegan granola! Was a fun run to watch. IMO keep going with this run, and I like the rules you have laid down so far
Cool idea for a challenge. The struggle will be real in this video lol
I enjoyed this challenge just like all of them, but this one had me watching closely for non vegan items for sure, which I found fun honestly. I know fleece can be either from a sheep or yak or it can be synthetic polyester too. I would agree tho that those mittens are synthetic. Honey is non vegan of course, I think that’s what zak realized later. My opinion, although not written, the crampons do look like the straps could be made of leather. Love your content Zak, thank you for always entertaining us with these new approaches!
Zaknafein: Starts Vegan challenge and makes first fire using Fir.
Vegans: Nooooooooooo!
Vegan puns ftw
This is a much more interesting challenge than I had first thought… I think the non-vegan granola was an honest mistake so no reason to start over. I think the running shoes are safe and like you conjectured, getting leather from harvesting is just a game convention. However, crafting improvised crampons requires leather, and though the regular crampons don’t specify, I assume those straps are leather, though perhaps it’s just following that same convention.
I am curious if surviving with only birchbark is still possible, so if you do continue this run, maybe you could pretend that you had gone through all the other world resources and were in the late-game stage…or maybe that’s its own run another day.
Goating should be illegal as a vegan.
Haha I see what you did there
Disclaimer: No goats were harmed in the making of this video
Vegan granola
In think that you should be able to use the running shoes. They look like proper running shoes (my Hokas and New Balances have no leather whatsoever). Getting leather from harvesting them is just a game mechanic simplification. Repairing them with leather is out, but… what if the “leather” came directly from harvesting a second pair of running shoes 🤔. Also running around with no shoes is a bit silly. It’s just a game, of course, but you’d have frostbite in no time IRL. Allow yourself some shoes.
The fleece mitts are fine as far as I can tell. Fleece refers to the type of fabrics, which are synthetic.
This is a good series. I’d watch a second episode. Thank you!
mining boots are made of plastic but arent repairable
To be frank, the reason i worry much about food is because of the well fed bonus. It's really nice to have when you're new and exploring regions
Vegan challenge or British challenge? I too am permanently freezing my ass off and drinking fifty cups of tea every day.
I think the running shoes are possible to use. The leather does not have to mean leather as such. In our language we sometimes call it artificial leather. It can be this case.
This is a great challenge. A long time ago during Beta, I think a guy named Gamer Nate attempted to survive on only cattails. Of course, this was back when there was only ML, PV, TM, CH. Once again, this is terrific.
I think I would save all rosehip and get cooking to lvl 3 with other teas and cans, (a longer process I know) but for long term rosehip pies seem a more efficient use of flour on a vegan run.
Side note, the granola uses honey definitely, but the chocolate is very possibly non dairy in some very large countries
this just makes me wish we could do some sort of hydroponics or a kind of farming in the game, creatures made of meat respawn but Outright Edible plants dont really.
Honestly I personally believe that wool, like honey, is vegan. (Speaking from an NZ farmers perspective). Like honey, sheep need their fleece sheared off. Otherwise you get cases like sherk the sheep. He disappeared into the hills and was found unable to move because of the amount of wool on his body. While historically sheep would lose their wool when the seasons change, modern sheep no longer have this ability.
Also (at least in NZ), our sheep are generally treated quite well. The economic reasoning is happy sheep = better product. The human side of it is because we care about them! We want to have happy healthy animals and take great care to ensure that they have a good life.
Thats my 2¢ at least 😅
on the down vests, they would most likely be made of a synthetic down, since it's less expensive, quick drying, and can still offer decent insulation if it gets wet, so most people would buy the synthetic.
also, i can't count how many vegans i have seen with an earing or some other little trinket with a real feather on it. i have even been on hikes with vegans that have picked up a feather and put it in their hair, hat, or behind their ear. so even if it is real down, i say go ahead and wear them.
but if you don't want to wear the down vests, then i would say that harvesting the cloth is fine. actually better than fine, cuz you can then release the down back into the wild lol
‼O!!! if you don't get any feathers when harvesting the down vests, then they must be made with synthetic down, right?
1:51:56 I think ketchup chips are distinctly Canadian. I haven't seen them in the US.
I would count the running shoes as vegan because the vast majority of those types of shoes use all synthetic materials (with the possible exception of rubber).
Funny thing about the ketchup chips, but we actually do have it in the Netherlands 😄
Another upside to this vegan challenge is you will never get parasites.
Noone noticed that the crampons have leather in them?!?😅
Also.. vegan granola...
As soon as I saw the ingredients, I said to myself "Honey's not vegan" ... Yes I'm afraid Zak, That was NOT 'Vegan Granola'
This was a fun video.
Wool: I'd argue that wool is a renewable resource and is obtained without destruction or harm. Sheep are unharmed by the sheering process. In fact, they benefit from the sheering process. This stands in contrast to animal or fish whereby their pelts or meat can only be derived by a 'destructive' process. I'd argue wool does not compromise the vegan lifestyle, however, some vegans may argue to the contrary.
Running shoes: Running shoes are constructed of petroluem based materials and do not utilize animal leather. Even the glue adhesives are synthetic. While the game mechanic breaksdown the shoes into leather, it is logical to overlook this a simple game mechanic. I'd argue that the running shoes would not be considered vegan and can be worn.
Honey: As stated below, honey is made BY bees and is not made FROM bees - unlike Milk. While I'm not a vegan, my good friends were vegans and didn't have issues with Milk - because it didn't harm the animal. Kinda like my argument with Wool. From that standpoint, the Granola bars and Chocolate bars would be acceptable. Guess it all depends upon how you set up your terms.
Down: Agree this is not acceptable. Body feathers are often harvested from ducks and geese raised for meat, so it's an easy call.
Cramp-Ons: If you look at the construction materials, you need 2 x cured leather. You should NOT be wearing the cramp-ons. Period.
Wool argument: ditto honey 👌
However, by this logic milk and thus chocolate would be OK as well, right?
@@simon4321 well no, beekeepers have a symbiotic relationship with bees. And all things being equal, honey is bee poop. Eggs are basically a chicken period, and in an idyllic society I can see eggs falling under the same honey/wool umbrella, but because milk and eggs have become grease for the wheel of the mega capitalism machine and we can't HAVE nice things, they don't fallen under veganism. But like... Literally no one is enslaving bees. They'll just leave. They have free reign. Don't make your bees happy? They leave. Wool is trickier.
Not sure all vegans would agree with this, but the crampons was a good shoutout!
The down could be acceptable. Some down like Eider is harvested from the nest, taking small amounts from each nest so no harm done.
You wore the shoes for a day or so before deciding they were forbidden.... So the granola bar is kinda the same thing. Do ten Hail Mary's as penance and put it behind you. ;).
Vegan Granola. I'm not a vegan, though I know some. All the ones I know vary in how strictly they adhere to veganism. So, in response to your question about how vegan you should go in a future video, I think a better option would be for *you* to decide what type of vegan your character is going to be. Explain in your video which kind of vegan, or what variations on 'commonly accepted' veganism you are using, and then play the game according to what *you* decide. There is always going to be someone who will criticize and say, "That's not *real* veganism. That's fake." Well, it's a game. And if they don't like it, they can keep scrolling through their UA-cam recommends for another channel. :) You have always shown yourself to be consistent in trying to do the best you can at whatever type of behavior modifications/game restrictions you apply to your game play and in living up to the requirements in good faith. Nobody has a right to ask more of you. Keep doing what you're doing. I'm here for it regardless. Thank you for another great video. :)
As a vegan, i wouldnt mind wearing the leather clothing, i have problem with buying it new, which obviously isnt problem in TLD .
Id imagine there are many vegans who have eaten a granola bar without realizing it was not Vegan Granola
3:21:02 Maple Syrup ingredients: Maple syrup, ants
Shoutout to u Zak, I think I’ve been grinding this game a lot because of u😂
Oil in lanterns is probably an animal based product
Its not its naphta
Vegan granola. Regarding to shoes, sports shoes use syntethic leather, so I guess it's safe to use those...
As for the challenge itself I do like it, not because it's something that I would try myself, but I do use the wisdom from such tricky situations...
Can pretend that the repair "leather" is Naugahyde or a vinyl artificial leather.
This is really fun to watch. I’m considering pescatarian
Not sure if it's already been stated, but matches are not vegan. A lot of them use gelatin in the match heads.
I think you should be able to harvist the down vest because you aren't harvesting the down just the cloth that held it in place.
25:45 Haha, besides Sherlock Homes, I have never heared the term 'discombobulate' ^^
2:02:12 sooooo that's the kind of paw patrol you are going to introduce your child to ?
Vegan granola. I think the nylon shoes only have a little leather trimming.
I don't think it's necessary to start over just because you ate some honey, but if it would make you feel better.....
I would watch if you made a part 2, of course.
would be interesting to know, what vegans actually would do incase such a scenario would be real
avoiding meat at all cost
or
actually eating it to survive
Survive of course. There are no Atheists in a crashing plane… so I think the will to survive is bigger then your lifestyle.
20:00 ; reishi is a mushroom and therefore not a plant ;)
Yes but its vegan
I'm only 13:00 in but I think I found the mistake you told us to watch for. The oil lamp. The oil is made from animal/fish fat so would not be vegan I would think.
Potentially, but not the mistake I was looking for, no :)
@@Zaknafein Vegan granola. lol Now that I made it to the end I know the answer but I didn't catch it myself. I still think that lamp oil wouldn't be vegan. The running shoes are questionable. They should be but since they take leather to repair and you get it for salvaging them I'd still have to go with not vegan.
Spoiler:
As for eating the granola, I honestly didn't even know honey wasn't vegan. In my defense I've never known a vegan in my life. I for one wouldn't hold it against you.
17:27 That's an unnecessary restriction. If it were milk chocolate, it would say so!
When I asked a vegan before the video, they said you can assume its milk chocolate unless otherwise specified. It would say vegan if it was.
plenty of chocolate has milk in them, even when not being of the milk flavour, said on it's name
@@zurcus7224 The dark chocolate I buy doesn't have milk or any other animal product.
@@Zaknafein 3:27:43 Since we now have a list of ingredients, I looked up the legal Canadian definitions, which are not as clear as I'd assumed. It seems that a product labeled "chocolate" may contain "less than 5 per cent total milk solids from milk ingredients." This is distinct from "milk chocolate" which must contain milk solids and milk fat. So, you were correct to say that a vegan would have to avoid something labeled simply "chocolate" unless it were made explicit that it contained no milk. laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/C.R.C.,_c._870/page-22.html?txthl=chocolate#s-B.04.006
Well... technically... "The majority of petroleum is thought to come from the fossils of plants and tiny marine organisms." so... technically, all oil-based products (nylon) ... may not be morally acceptable?
So two major vegan mistakes honey in the granola bar and crampons leather straps?
No down stupid! 😂 Love all of these challenges and I don’t think mistakes should automatically end the run. Maybe you should have a penalty for eating non vegan like induced inflection. Again really love the content and I look forward to the part 2!
For those who are wondering, I myself am a vegan but if I were in a survival situation I would do whatever I needed to do to survive. Animals wouldn’t be my first priority but I would resort to hunting if I needed to.
1:11:59 It looks like "tocopherols" is misspelled.
1:12:02 The granola bar is not vegan. It contains honey. I see Zak noticed this near the end of the video. Vegan granola should be made with maple syrup instead of honey.
Fleece is the wool and a thin layer of sheep skin So it is not Vegan.
The fleece mittens are non vegan bc fleece is condensed/matted wool... There is a chance it's artificial fleece from plastic fibre... But it's the same problem like the running shoes. I'm 99% sure they contain not a bit of an animal and the scrap to leather problem is a simplify the code thing by the Devs...
Edit: vegan granola 😋
Vegan granola. I’m not really concerned about the granola bar thing. It was an honest mistake and doesn’t really affect the run or the premise in any real way. You already did the math on vegan food in the game so the premise is a possible one. While I would like a part 2, I don’t know about turning it into a long run. Just enough to show the concept is viable and ways to go about it.
You're just like DDRjake except nice! (Jkjkjk)
I loved it. Keep it going! Vegan Granola!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i wish we could eat snow or collect water from fishing holes and waterfalls
Vegan Granola.
It doesn't matter that you ate one by accident.
Sneakers are ok. The leather is probably artificial.
I would like to see it continue from this point or since you plan to wait for the next DLC releasee you could start over and use it as an opportunity to explore the new content. I liked the idea!
Thanks!
Vegan Granola! You also used the fleece mittens which are NOT vegan!
If anyone wandering how to get efficient machine you don't have to survive a total of 500 days in a single run to get it you have to survive 500 days in total not in a single run what i'm trying to explaine here is that in your the long dark playtime you have to survive 500 days in your playtime it could be across multiple run or just one all you need to do is survive a total of 500 days
I would say that the shoes are likely fake leather/cloth and not a real animal product, and therefore fine to use as part of the vegan challenge. I think most of the other found footwear is more likely real leather and therefore not ok. I would also argue that getting cloth from things like down vests and whatnot is vegan as you arn't using the animal product but still recycling the "non-animal" part. I would also say picking up feathers found in the world should be allowed (no harm done), but ultimately useless as you couldn't make the bow due to guts. Edit to add some vegan granola
I think your mistake was that you said you could use the fire hardened arrows but they require crow feathers so you cannot make them :D and I don't think honey is considered vegan
Only cheap chocolate is non-vegan. :)
Also, Granola Bar is not vegan because honey is not vegan.
I haven't watched the video yet, but I assume you can harvest carcasses for skin and guts.
You cant, no.
@@Zaknafein That's hardcore. I don't see how doing that violates the vegan code.
@@jpEpsilon its because its derived from an animal. But it depends on how hardcore vegan you are.
vegan granola? I'd like to see you start again!
You win a heart!
Its fun to watch , love to see part 2 or 3 .... as i watch to the end dont think it big deal to restart enen me i though honey is ok but who know lol. Shoes I don't think so it's a big problem and vegan G ;)
Honey and antibiotic are the big ones you kind of missed. And aren’t mushrooms a fungus not a plant
Bacteria aren't animals. Antibiotics are vegan
I dont think the fungus part matters, but the honey part is spot on!
@@ZaknafeinIsn't there no consensus on whether honey is vegan or not? Some say it's an animal product and therefore not vegan, period, while other say that if bees weren't fine with the honey harvest, they would just leave the beehive for another place; that keeping hives is more like symbiosis: we keep hives safe from other animals and we get honey.
Whichever way it lands for the game restrictions is fine, but I think talking about those aspects is important as it allows some people who aren't ready to commit to the 100% 'strictest sense of the word' veganism a way to participate in a degree of veganism without feeling like frauds. Like the people who eat eggs you mentioned.
@@LizardNeedsAnID You just mentioned a big problem inside the vegan "world view". I'm always surprised that vegans don't know the hen always lays eggs, independent of weather it got impregnated or not.
Honey is the same thing: wild bees ALWAYS overproduce their honey storage by a large margin (i forgot the numbers but it was at least over 50%). Since wild bees are constantly build and expand their hive they sometimes seal big amounts of comb-rooms forever and never return to them again. There are instances where people found fallen tree trunks almost fully filled with honeycombs inside but only a very small bee family lived at the tip of it. Turns out this family was huge once and expanded so far that there was no more place left so it shrunk to this meagre shadow of once a dominating hive force.
Same with cows - they are domesticated since at least early neolithic so now they evolved to compeltely depend on humans. Cows can't give birth without humans helping them and are dependend on additional nutrients from humans in order to stay healthy. Not to mention that cows went through thousands of years of selection so nowadays they overproduce milk like crazy, WAY over what a calf would ever need for growth. Cows suffer A LOT when you don't milk them in time. I personally saw a cow going through crazy pain because of not geting milked in time. It was painful to watch and hear!
take a shot each time he says the word vegan
Vegan granola for you :D
What’s the major mistake at the one hour you said you could make the bow and use firenhardened and arrows. That would take gut
Thats true, though not the mistake as I didnt make the bow :)
1:38:00 - just interested: What do you consider 'baking hot' in Norway? ^^
Like, 25 degrees celsius :)
comment for the algorithm
Is there leather in the crampons?
what about the ski boots
granola bar is not vegan because honey is considered animal product (from bees). Did i win something? I'm not even vegan myself xD
You win a heart!
Vegan granola , your being too hard on yourself. Isn't there any felines in cattails? 😂😂
as a vegan i endorse this
hi, when you are harvesting nylon shoes and obtain "leather"; it perhaps may be assumed that this is man made leather. I enjoy a fur-lined jacket as long as the material is synthetic. I hope my 2 cents helps, I am not a vegan, fyi.
So human skin?????
vegan granola
granola bar is not vegan -> honey not vegan
The jeans do have a leather belt on them lol
Might be fake leather, but who knows. I give Zak the benefit of doubt.
Hard to say, ambiguous. But hardcore vegan probably avoid it, yes.
Haha yhea. Its hard to say
as already mentioned - the vast majority of cheap belts are made of fake leather. So unless you play Mr. Fancy-Shmancy chances are it's vegan. Also you don't get even 1 dry leather after harvesting. But you get 2 dry leathers when you harvest Sportsneakers (and no, in the video it was incorrectly assumed that sportsneakers sole could be made out of leather. It's always rubber. you can't do athletics with leather soles) which are in worst case AT LEAST 95% artificial (especially the models used in the game)
@@cccpredarmy Aight
True vegan!
Skillet!! SKILLLLEEEEETTTTTTT!!!!!!!😭😭🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Vegan Storytime, years ago I was working a part time job for some cash at a Gas Station, there was this female who would buy a distilled water/jello/random fruit in the morning before her job almost everyday. She decided to spill to me at the register that she was celebrating her 2nd year of becoming a Vegan (I'm a kinda person who wants to see people crumble sometimes), I then asked if she was sure, she said she's been eating a planned meal system for 2 years so far. I then asked her for her for jello back and while holding it asked how long she's been eating jello and which flavor was her favorite, she said she's always enjoyed jello as a snack and it was lemon, I then told her with a subtle grin that she hasn't been a Vegan at all for the last 2 years, she asked what I meant, I told her the average jello brand is made with cartilage from bone marrow to give jello is jiggly consistency.... she then froze for a second and began screaming violently. I stood there with a big smile and asked if there was anything else she wanted to get. She threw the jello in the trash and didn't say a word as she left, she never bought jello again after that.
It seems during this run you're mentioning several points that probably would be incorrect. Kinda like your playing pre-scurvy not even thinking about it in the equation as you speak. None the less Great video 😊
"Vegans, feel free to comment and let me know if X is vegan"
This man just broke the algorithm
As a Ph. D in chemistry and an amateur runner, I am assuring you, running shoes are plane synthetic fabric. Any running shoes that are made from leather are considered as poorly designed. Since it is clearly stated that those are running shoes, it should be considered as vegan.
As a PhD in chemistry you should know nylon/plastics are made from crude oil products, crude oil is formed from dead plants & animals.
My running shoes has leather in it (the white part is made of leather, not synthetic). So does my husband's. The apparel industry doesn't always make sense.
plain* sorry had to
What about lantern oils
I know in-game when ... Either eating or catching fish, you acquire oil for the lantern
Zak, no big deal about the granola containing honey (I never would have thought of it tbh). I can tell you how you succeeded:
You provided amazing content, kept us all entertained as always…and that’s all that matters. Thanks, once again, and can’t wait for your next one!
If you give the bees a house and protect them from wasps then maybe the honey is a barter exchange. I never imagines that vegan don't eat honey
Let it rain Vegan Granola in your next attempt, maybe it will scare away the Cougars
I'm not vegan but it's in my area of interest. Some of the stuff you said seemed very weird to me(crude oil not being vegan??) and alien to the typical ethical / harm reduction concerns that I associate with veganism. A useful phrase is "to the extent possible and practicable" so for example the ground-up insects in grains and the small animal deaths from crop harvesting don't make those foods non-vegan.
It's this clause that makes a lot of the concerns irrelevant in a survival situation. Killing animals for food when you must to survive isn't really at odds with veganism(although if we're good enough at the game, we don't need that to survive.) But the real departure from your rules occurs with found abandoned clothing, food, carcasses, and dead fish washed ashore. All of these are situations where any potential harm has already been done, and now we either make use of the resources or let them go to waste. A real-world counterpart would be making use of the meat, skin, bones, guts, etc of roadkill, which doesn't go against veganism as far as I'm concerned. Or salvaging some leather boots or wool clothing before it's sent to the landfill.
Fully agree. The arguments against "making use" of these situations in our functioning societies is that it would incentive people to simply claim their stuff is roadkill or ethically harvested to avoid the backlash, but that's a capitalism problem, and as you said, not a survival problem. Agreement, but a clarifier for the real world. It still strikes me as odd not to use the found gear that contains, for example, wool, but you have to decide on a metric and that's the most true to form I guess.
Crude oil is literally dead animal bodies
Just to clarify, it's fine to apply whatever rules work best for the spirit of the challenge. I just think it's interesting that common vegan stereotypes don't apply in a different setting, largely due to the lack of a market economy incentive structure.
Yeah but if he did all of those things it would just be a normal game.
@@Cranberrie123 Yeah that's why I added my clarifying comment. Although it would remove hunting and fishing, that's not as much of an impact.
00:02:14 Interesting challenge! On the shoes front, I do know vegans who would prefer to wear second-hand leather rather than new vegan leather shoes, as vegan leather is made of plastic and as such the environmental footprint is higher.
There are always tradeoffs.
Second hand is a good option for some thing. It should be for practical use.
Never in a 1000 hours took the time to see if there are actually ingredients listed on all of the food stuff! Great details.