The tower kivas are fascinating. Trying to visualize both types, the wedding cake and the yellow jacket tower. Either one would merge the underworld associated w the kiva with the sky through the height of the tower.
It seems like rooms 50&51 are the small farm that sold to the big corporation. So they tore it down and built the Aztec complex in the exact same spot. As opposed to Pueblo Bonito where the earliest part is added onto. (unless there were older constructions razed under Bonito, I don't know.)The small farm had proved profitable over the past couple of decades. It doesn't seem like it takes an entire generation or more, 20+ years, to scout and layout the location for a new complex, seems like it would take a few months or a year at the most. It shouldn't take more than 9-12 months to figure out where your solstice alignments are.
This is an interesting idea that the Pueblos developed as a response to and reaction against the politics of Chaco... A few minutes later you mention this idea that when Teotihuacan collapsed, it sent out ripples of nobility. I have questions. Seems like when big things collapse the nobles get beheaded or burned or blamed generally? The French Revolution...? The Russian Revolution...? Which is maybe unfair, but maybe more fair as they have probably also been taking credit for things they have no control over like the rain and good weather and soil fertility in good times. Perhaps the ripples of civilization that spread in the aftermath of the AD 600 collapse were in turn political or religious reactions against the previous system, in one way or another.
Great “houses” are for ceremonies. Maybe houses for the gods, but it is not reliable evidence for assuming there were rich greedy nobles and dirt cheap commoners. All of these “noble” archaeological findings are in present day ceremonies and are strictly used for that.
What if they built the "towers" because they looked cool/impressive to people who were approaching? Likely if they could have built four or five or six stories they would have, just to demonstrate wealth/social influence, assuming the "towers" were built by well-paid craftsmen of the day. In other words, the towers could be a kind of banal status symbol, like keeping up with the Joneses. The "Utilitarian" Cadillac Escalade of their day. You can't really go higher than two or three stories with this kind of masonry, unless it's built into an alcove. In which case it is obviously not a "tower." Hey we need a better view from this high cliff alcove with the crazy view...?
Excellent talk! Always enjoy hearing Lekson speak--he stays away from jargon and talks using plain language. Incredible ideas to think about.
I went to Chaco this year and I’ve been watching all of his talks.
Great presentation!
Technological Futility ends at 11:13
& lecture begins
The tower kivas are fascinating. Trying to visualize both types, the wedding cake and the yellow jacket tower. Either one would merge the underworld associated w the kiva with the sky through the height of the tower.
Pavansinom vs Savungsinom?
It seems like rooms 50&51 are the small farm that sold to the big corporation. So they tore it down and built the Aztec complex in the exact same spot. As opposed to Pueblo Bonito where the earliest part is added onto. (unless there were older constructions razed under Bonito, I don't know.)The small farm had proved profitable over the past couple of decades. It doesn't seem like it takes an entire generation or more, 20+ years, to scout and layout the location for a new complex, seems like it would take a few months or a year at the most. It shouldn't take more than 9-12 months to figure out where your solstice alignments are.
This is an interesting idea that the Pueblos developed as a response to and reaction against the politics of Chaco... A few minutes later you mention this idea that when Teotihuacan collapsed, it sent out ripples of nobility. I have questions. Seems like when big things collapse the nobles get beheaded or burned or blamed generally? The French Revolution...? The Russian Revolution...? Which is maybe unfair, but maybe more fair as they have probably also been taking credit for things they have no control over like the rain and good weather and soil fertility in good times. Perhaps the ripples of civilization that spread in the aftermath of the AD 600 collapse were in turn political or religious reactions against the previous system, in one way or another.
Hmmmmm.
Great “houses” are for ceremonies. Maybe houses for the gods, but it is not reliable evidence for assuming there were rich greedy nobles and dirt cheap commoners. All of these “noble” archaeological findings are in present day ceremonies and are strictly used for that.
What if they built the "towers" because they looked cool/impressive to people who were approaching? Likely if they could have built four or five or six stories they would have, just to demonstrate wealth/social influence, assuming the "towers" were built by well-paid craftsmen of the day. In other words, the towers could be a kind of banal status symbol, like keeping up with the Joneses. The "Utilitarian" Cadillac Escalade of their day. You can't really go higher than two or three stories with this kind of masonry, unless it's built into an alcove. In which case it is obviously not a "tower." Hey we need a better view from this high cliff alcove with the crazy view...?