We can't keep enough Supreme Tenors in stock; they sell out so quickly. In contrast, the Signature models tend to sell much more slowly, even though they are arguably just as good as the saxophones for less. We do appreciate though, they aren’t cheap!
I visited the States last year and play tested a Selmer Signature alto. It was awesome! The key action was much lighter than a Cannonball that I also tried.
The Signature is being ignored because it’s a series 2 for the alto or a series 3 for the tenor with a few upgrades. Why would I pay so much more for a Signature/series 2 2.0 than a used mint series 2 or even an old stock series 2? Is it a good horn yes I enjoyed the one I played but the Supreme is a unique offering thus providing a customer with enough difference to say hmm I’ll give up my present Selmer or even add this new one to my stable. As a small complaint about the design I am not a fan of the engraving it seems a bit corny to engrave an art deco style saxophone on the bell but hey some may like it. In the meantime I’ll stick with my Mark VI.
I have a black tenor Series III. I live in a humid tropical country and the lacquer does not like the humidity. The black lacquer becomes sticky and rubs off just from rubbing with my t-shirt. I emailed Selmer Paris for tips on how to clean it. Their response was that they’ve had similar issues with owners living in areas with high humidity.
JIm , your presentations are getting better and better ( not that previous ones were less than good !) - you came across so well-animated - descriptive and super playing. You really sounded at home and expressive on the signature ( what mouthpiece? ) ; the supreme sounded held back somehow and not as bright.
Many thanks for this. It's interesting how you heard those tendencies on the Signature - I definitely bedded more with the Signature in terms of its breadth of sound, which just works more for the sound I hear in my head and wish to make. I went for the most neutral mouthpiece that I could think of to make this video - it's a D'addario Select Jazz 7.
I like how your mouthpiece and reed matched up great with the Signature. Your intonation was much better on the Signature. I love switching around my sax necks to match up with whatever reeds I'm using. If my reeds are a little hard, I use my brighter sounding neck which has less resistance. If my reeds are a little soft, I use my darker sounding neck (more resistance) to balance the less resistance of the softer reeds. I play the Yamaha Custom 875exII alto and the Yamaha Custom 875 tenor. I use the new Yamaha necks... E1 and V1. My first professional alto was the Selmer Mark VI, but I didn't have a good one, so I fell in love with the Yamaha saxes.
I’ve had the opportunity to try both back to back. The hype is real with the Supreme. It is by far a more superior saxophone compared to the Signature.
Why Supreme? There is no distinction in quality between two instruments, it's basically the same saxophone. There is only a slight tonal characteristic difference, which makes Signature (not Supreme) more flexible, and expressive, as an instrument to be played across music genres.
@@zvonimirtosic6171 As you have said its a problem with the marketing, why spend exorbitantly on the sax that does not have 12 years of R&D associated with it?
@@stveloop9452 12 years of development is empty marketing talk. The Japanese use continuous development methodology, which means their products are constantly improved, they don't "need 12 years" to figure something out. Anyone who knows anything about manufacturing just laughs at Selmer's childish statements, which in the end UNDERMINES their products.
It's a beautiful horn and they have a really good action. Them main issues are the marketing which was non existent for the signature series. The price tag for what it is being a more modified series two which most of us are aware of does not justify the cost. It's a shame really but advertisement that went into the mark 6 is why its still talked about. With the mark 6, no one brings up the fact that they made slight alterstions every couple of years which has led to the serial number wars of which range is ideal. Now if selmer would've gone back to the tubing of the earlier ones with modified keying akin to that of the signature series and called it something along the lines of the "The Mark resurected" then it would've been a hit because it would've combine the true vintage essance with modern ergonomics. Or they could've added a low a to the alto and tenor which would have made it truly unique. The supreme with its goal is original in the sense that it is the next step in what selmer wants their vision to now be. The signature series is holding onto a success that was so much so that the market will forever be saturated with series 2 and 3s which will be college student staples for decades to come. Selmer needs a model that is more obtainable to college students which could be a massive hit and call that the signature series also.
I think anybody in that price range who wants the best of the best just goes straight for the supreme. Anything else in the middle-to-high price range, there are just so many good alternatives from the far east and house-branded horns to keep the cost more reasonable.
I think it's unfortunate that one aspect of human nature is to plump for the most expensive option. Fundamentally, these saxes are so similar. The fear of missing out often quashes more objective thinking. Jim
If only Selmer's pricing of all their saxes since the SA80II was reflected in the build quality. Likewise with Buffet clarinets from the Prestige models upwards. Both companies rely heavily on their name and past glories to sell their below standard products.
Jim, if you have one in the store with a really thick layer of dust and no one wants it, send it to me so you can make room for others. Please tenor. 😉
The Supreme, is not manufactured in a different way. They both have their own sounds which branch off. I'm paraphrasing what is said in this video. Great, I'd love to know what justifies one being pricier than the other?
That's correct; thank you for paying attention! Good question. When it comes down to it, there are a handful of additional mechanical and ergonomic design elements that were adopted on the Supreme, but they left out on the Signature, such that both could maintain their identities. In my opinion, the significant ones DID get passed over to the Signature - these are the 3 point neck receiver, nickel silver tightening ring and octave key teflon supports. Otherwise, the Supreme has a host of ergonomic adjustments, repositioned keys, smoothed curves etc. Beyond this there is nothing particularly 'extra' you get with the Supreme, other than that we are dealing with a some acoustic differences that took many years to land upon - a new neck bore; modified tone hole diameters; venting heights altered. However, the Signature alto has a new neck design of its own, and the tenor has an increased neck receiver diameter.
Dear Sax Co Uk, why not try audio spectrum ANALYSIS of both instruments? I test saxophones & saxophone equipment with ears, but also with audio spectrum analysis, to get objective image of what I hear. A competent saxophone shop could do the same, on the same notes played on Supreme and Signature. Then objectively show real differences and what they mean. And then we'll see if people buy by the price tag, or by what they are "able to hear"?
It's an interesting idea. It requires extreme accuracy/consistency on the part of the player to make the results anywhere near valid. And I'd bet that people would STILL buy via the price tag, rather than anything else presented to them!
@@saxworldwide You can only test half a dozen critical & weakest notes on a saxophone. For each note take 3 samples on each saxophone to establish tendency for that note on that instrument. Use the same mouthpiece and reed. It won't take long, but all images from each saxophone will give you a good idea how the instrument vibrates, and what harmonics are accessible. Also in which quantity, whether the slope is more linear, parabolic, etc.
because if someone wants the best, they'll shed a lot of money on their top of line Supreme. the Signature may be a great sax, but it's not the top model and it's still pretty expensive. neither here, not there. many other cheaper options in the market for a better value.
I was just in your fantastic store! My Rampone Two Voices got some nice tweaking by your great repair tech! I've tried these Selmers in Paris, at NAMM in LA and at your store. My (limoited) conclusions): The Signature alto blew kinda like my early 5 digit Mark VI alto The Supreme tenor blew kinda like my late 6 digit Mark VI tenor
It's Selmer's fault, and the fault of their distributors, like Sax co uk. It's failed marketing. You advertised Supreme as something "beyond words", "the pinnacle", and then when Signature came out, which is basically the SAME sax and same tech at a slightly lower price, marketing word salad and empty superlatives used for Supreme worked AGAINST Signature.
Exactly that! Selmer made such a fuss about the Supreme that the Signature, which came on the market later, went completely under the radar. besides, nobody seems to know exactly what the differences are. I work with saxophones every day and don't know exactly why the Supreme is more expensive
@@saxappeal8890 Necks are the same and interchangeable. Finish is the same quality. I think the only difference may be the size of some tone holes, perhaps by a minimal margin, which does influence the tonal character just slightly. That minimal difference makes the Signature just a bit easier to push and more flexible.
@@clifnotes9091 Most of competent reviewers who are also *excellent* saxophone players across genres, said the opposite. Supreme is very good for classical and for rookies who can play only within a small comfort zone. Even in recordings for UA-cam, Signature does sound more interesting and flexible, in every comparison.
@ have you even played them side by side? If not, your comment and input are irrelevant. You have to experience them in a side by side comparison. The first misconception is that the Supreme is only for classical players. Absolute rubbish. It’s an extremely versatile instrument. The Signature is not bad, but it’s nowhere near as good as the Supreme. If you are going by listening to other people play them on UA-cam, your phone or computer screen, then you should save your comments until you’ve played both of them in person. Have a nice day! =) God Bless!
It’s not the horn , IT’S THE PRICE TAG 🏷 !
This ☝️
My thoughts, exactly. Great horn, but way too expensive.
I have played it and it is awesome but too expensive. A beautiful instrument though looks and plays so well.
We can't keep enough Supreme Tenors in stock; they sell out so quickly. In contrast, the Signature models tend to sell much more slowly, even though they are arguably just as good as the saxophones for less. We do appreciate though, they aren’t cheap!
@saxworldwide do you see a difference in customer profile between the signature and the people that used to buy the SA80?
I visited the States last year and play tested a Selmer Signature alto. It was awesome! The key action was much lighter than a Cannonball that I also tried.
The supreme sounds perfect, the evenness, low end, and intonation are on point. I know better than to play test one of those!
The Signature is being ignored because it’s a series 2 for the alto or a series 3 for the tenor with a few upgrades. Why would I pay so much more for a Signature/series 2 2.0 than a used mint series 2 or even an old stock series 2? Is it a good horn yes I enjoyed the one I played but the Supreme is a unique offering thus providing a customer with enough difference to say hmm I’ll give up my present Selmer or even add this new one to my stable. As a small complaint about the design I am not a fan of the engraving it seems a bit corny to engrave an art deco style saxophone on the bell but hey some may like it. In the meantime I’ll stick with my Mark VI.
I have a black tenor Series III. I live in a humid tropical country and the lacquer does not like the humidity. The black lacquer becomes sticky and rubs off just from rubbing with my t-shirt. I emailed Selmer Paris for tips on how to clean it. Their response was that they’ve had similar issues with owners living in areas with high humidity.
Oh wow. That may explain why some lacquer rubbed off the neck off my series II. Thanks for sharing.
JIm , your presentations are getting better and better ( not that previous ones were less than good !) - you came across so well-animated - descriptive and super playing. You really sounded at home and expressive on the signature ( what mouthpiece? ) ; the supreme sounded held back somehow and not as bright.
Many thanks for this. It's interesting how you heard those tendencies on the Signature - I definitely bedded more with the Signature in terms of its breadth of sound, which just works more for the sound I hear in my head and wish to make. I went for the most neutral mouthpiece that I could think of to make this video - it's a D'addario Select Jazz 7.
Some serious eye candy!!!!! Very good review.
Jim -- or the saxes?:)
Ok, ok….like someone mentioned; series llll or series iv ☮️🎶🎵🎶🎷
I’m so collecting this in college! 🎷
I like how your mouthpiece and reed matched up great with the Signature. Your intonation was much better on the Signature. I love switching around my sax necks to match up with whatever reeds I'm using. If my reeds are a little hard, I use my brighter sounding neck which has less resistance. If my reeds are a little soft, I use my darker sounding neck (more resistance) to balance the less resistance of the softer reeds. I play the Yamaha Custom 875exII alto and the Yamaha Custom 875 tenor. I use the new Yamaha necks... E1 and V1. My first professional alto was the Selmer Mark VI, but I didn't have a good one, so I fell in love with the Yamaha saxes.
That sounds like a great system that you have, and makes perfect sense!
Hello Jim. What mouthpiece are you playing on those horns? Sounds sweet 🙂
Thank you - I tried to go for a neutral sounding option, which in this case was the D'addario Select Jazz 7
Great vlog Jim, make of neckstrap please?
That's a Balam Premium Large. I love these!
Wish I could afford an Axos let alone the Signature.
I’ve had the opportunity to try both back to back. The hype is real with the Supreme. It is by far a more superior saxophone compared to the Signature.
Have you ever had a subcontrabass in stock?
If you are putting together more than 5grand for a sax, you'd go all in and get the supreme
Why Supreme? There is no distinction in quality between two instruments, it's basically the same saxophone. There is only a slight tonal characteristic difference, which makes Signature (not Supreme) more flexible, and expressive, as an instrument to be played across music genres.
@@zvonimirtosic6171 As you have said its a problem with the marketing, why spend exorbitantly on the sax that does not have 12 years of R&D associated with it?
@@stveloop9452 12 years of development is empty marketing talk. The Japanese use continuous development methodology, which means their products are constantly improved, they don't "need 12 years" to figure something out. Anyone who knows anything about manufacturing just laughs at Selmer's childish statements, which in the end UNDERMINES their products.
Sooooo….which one cost the most to play🎵🎶🎵🎷
It's a beautiful horn and they have a really good action. Them main issues are the marketing which was non existent for the signature series. The price tag for what it is being a more modified series two which most of us are aware of does not justify the cost. It's a shame really but advertisement that went into the mark 6 is why its still talked about. With the mark 6, no one brings up the fact that they made slight alterstions every couple of years which has led to the serial number wars of which range is ideal. Now if selmer would've gone back to the tubing of the earlier ones with modified keying akin to that of the signature series and called it something along the lines of the "The Mark resurected" then it would've been a hit because it would've combine the true vintage essance with modern ergonomics. Or they could've added a low a to the alto and tenor which would have made it truly unique. The supreme with its goal is original in the sense that it is the next step in what selmer wants their vision to now be. The signature series is holding onto a success that was so much so that the market will forever be saturated with series 2 and 3s which will be college student staples for decades to come. Selmer needs a model that is more obtainable to college students which could be a massive hit and call that the signature series also.
Maybe they should have called the Sig a “Series IV”??
I think anybody in that price range who wants the best of the best just goes straight for the supreme. Anything else in the middle-to-high price range, there are just so many good alternatives from the far east and house-branded horns to keep the cost more reasonable.
I think it's unfortunate that one aspect of human nature is to plump for the most expensive option. Fundamentally, these saxes are so similar. The fear of missing out often quashes more objective thinking. Jim
Ouch. This reminds me of the Mark VII back in the day.
If only Selmer's pricing of all their saxes since the SA80II was reflected in the build quality.
Likewise with Buffet clarinets from the Prestige models upwards.
Both companies rely heavily on their name and past glories to sell their below standard products.
Jim, if you have one in the store with a really thick layer of dust and no one wants it, send it to me so you can make room for others. Please tenor. 😉
I'll have a look around....
Make comparation test with Keilwerth SX90R, or Yanagisawa t992. You will het answer
The Supreme, is not manufactured in a different way. They both have their own sounds which branch off. I'm paraphrasing what is said in this video. Great, I'd love to know what justifies one being pricier than the other?
That's correct; thank you for paying attention! Good question. When it comes down to it, there are a handful of additional mechanical and ergonomic design elements that were adopted on the Supreme, but they left out on the Signature, such that both could maintain their identities. In my opinion, the significant ones DID get passed over to the Signature - these are the 3 point neck receiver, nickel silver tightening ring and octave key teflon supports. Otherwise, the Supreme has a host of ergonomic adjustments, repositioned keys, smoothed curves etc. Beyond this there is nothing particularly 'extra' you get with the Supreme, other than that we are dealing with a some acoustic differences that took many years to land upon - a new neck bore; modified tone hole diameters; venting heights altered. However, the Signature alto has a new neck design of its own, and the tenor has an increased neck receiver diameter.
I keep my tenor serie 2
I still do not understand why the tenor SAII never got much love while staying on the market for so song since 1987.
Dear Sax Co Uk, why not try audio spectrum ANALYSIS of both instruments? I test saxophones & saxophone equipment with ears, but also with audio spectrum analysis, to get objective image of what I hear. A competent saxophone shop could do the same, on the same notes played on Supreme and Signature. Then objectively show real differences and what they mean. And then we'll see if people buy by the price tag, or by what they are "able to hear"?
It's an interesting idea. It requires extreme accuracy/consistency on the part of the player to make the results anywhere near valid. And I'd bet that people would STILL buy via the price tag, rather than anything else presented to them!
@@saxworldwide You can only test half a dozen critical & weakest notes on a saxophone. For each note take 3 samples on each saxophone to establish tendency for that note on that instrument. Use the same mouthpiece and reed. It won't take long, but all images from each saxophone will give you a good idea how the instrument vibrates, and what harmonics are accessible. Also in which quantity, whether the slope is more linear, parabolic, etc.
because if someone wants the best, they'll shed a lot of money on their top of line Supreme. the Signature may be a great sax, but it's not the top model and it's still pretty expensive. neither here, not there. many other cheaper options in the market for a better value.
Your first sentence is probably the truth of it. However, what I wanted to get across in the video is that they are BOTH excellent, just different.
Prices have become ridiculously too expensive…and the reeds!
Supremity?
😅
Supremacy!
Ah yes, you're right! Sorry, my bad...I'll try and read some more books
It is simple and obvious. For the same price we can get a SUPER mark 6......
Beautiful horns, but I'm never sold on black finishes. Maybe seems...gimmicky or something.
Stanley Turrentine played on a black finish Selmer tenor and he had such a gimmicky sound😮😮on it.
I was just in your fantastic store! My Rampone Two Voices got some nice tweaking by your great repair tech!
I've tried these Selmers in Paris, at NAMM in LA and at your store. My (limoited) conclusions):
The Signature alto blew kinda like my early 5 digit Mark VI alto
The Supreme tenor blew kinda like my late 6 digit Mark VI tenor
Thanks for coming over to our store!
@@saxworldwide Great place! Like Disneyland for Saxophonists!
It's Selmer's fault, and the fault of their distributors, like Sax co uk. It's failed marketing. You advertised Supreme as something "beyond words", "the pinnacle", and then when Signature came out, which is basically the SAME sax and same tech at a slightly lower price, marketing word salad and empty superlatives used for Supreme worked AGAINST Signature.
Exactly that! Selmer made such a fuss about the Supreme that the Signature, which came on the market later, went completely under the radar. besides, nobody seems to know exactly what the differences are. I work with saxophones every day and don't know exactly why the Supreme is more expensive
@@saxappeal8890 Necks are the same and interchangeable. Finish is the same quality. I think the only difference may be the size of some tone holes, perhaps by a minimal margin, which does influence the tonal character just slightly. That minimal difference makes the Signature just a bit easier to push and more flexible.
They are not the same. The Signature plays very much different than the Supreme. Not as good. I was very underwhelmed.
@@clifnotes9091 Most of competent reviewers who are also *excellent* saxophone players across genres, said the opposite. Supreme is very good for classical and for rookies who can play only within a small comfort zone. Even in recordings for UA-cam, Signature does sound more interesting and flexible, in every comparison.
@ have you even played them side by side? If not, your comment and input are irrelevant. You have to experience them in a side by side comparison. The first misconception is that the Supreme is only for classical players. Absolute rubbish. It’s an extremely versatile instrument. The Signature is not bad, but it’s nowhere near as good as the Supreme. If you are going by listening to other people play them on UA-cam, your phone or computer screen, then you should save your comments until you’ve played both of them in person. Have a nice day! =) God Bless!