I absolutely needed to hear these topics being discussed at this point in my life. I've watched & put into practice many of Jonathan's teachings over the last couples of years but this may be one of the biggest. Thank you Derek for asking the tough questions & Jonathan for replying so openly. I'm going to make a permanent change.
and I am envious of your YT channel name. I'm grateful Pageau was game. Sexuality is an important topic today. What do you get into with Theology of the Body?
@@DerekJFiedler everything, LOL. You can go to my channel and check out my Theology of the Body playlist for more. At the crux is the concept that God designed our bodies, particularly in the sexual difference, to be a symbol of who God is (as an eternal, loving community of persons) and to tell the story of the Gospel, our destiny to enter into that community as the Bride of Christ.
@@PsychoBible this is actually heretical. bishop luke of syracuse spoke about this. its rooted in paganism. sexuality is a gift of nature, and not a divine gift. saint gregory palamas explains this in the triads.
1:01:58 Just re-listening and the section about the sabbath and music being the horn without the point really resonated. Thats such an incredible image of recreation.
The conversation almost didn't go that direction. So glad it did ;) Re-Creation is how I approach each Saturday now, using music and other "point-less" activities.
@@DerekJFiedler Same here. The seventh day is the day of exception and recreation. Its the day on the edge of the week, that is unlike the other days. Jonathan did a video on 666 that initially got me thinking down that path. 666 being an attempt to account for everything. Refusing to allow for the exception to exist on the edge. Like having the week stop at the 6th day, refusing to allow for the seven.
Pageau's 666 video is an excellent one. Reminds me of his brother's book, how he demonstrated what happens when you skip the 7th day (rest, rejuvenation, mystery) with a spiraling image that keeps looping and growing until it runs out of space or fractures under the weight of its mass.
@@DerekJFiedler I’ve yet to read Mathieu’s book. I had tried to order it before but it was sold out. I was able place an order the other day, but it has yet to arrive. Looking forward to finally reading it. Thats an interesting image to ponder. It took me a second to visualize it. An endlessly productive mass growing in size until it fractures under its own weight. Like a tower of babel.
@@06rtm I'm pleased to hear you getting closer to the Language of Creation. When you are ready, you may want to watch my 3 part review taking a deeper look into Matthieu Pageau's book. It may provide you with deeper insights. And yes, a tower of babel ;)
Haha it seemed like a simple question in the head. Realized the weight of it when I spoke the question about Love and Logos. Then, Pageau answered with precision. Fitting conclusion wouldn't you say?
@@DerekJFiedler haha actually i wrote that for the question at 1:32:40 about 'how is all this joined together'. but yeah I liked all the 'final' questions ;)
@@DerekJFiedler challenging Derek. in buddhism I've seen love being a tool or expression of the beyond the self reality. its an externalsing activity to pour love out. I can kinda see it but there is a lot in that answer he gave particularly in what it means to act in life
1:29:35 Very thankful about it being discussed here. It gives me a lot of insight in a world where everything around this subject is confusing. At least to me it always seemed very vague what the truth is about it.
When JP and you talked about the "handing down" and the echoes, I was waiting for him to say "It's handed down and handed down, and then it's handed back"
@@DerekJFiedler It was a very good talk. With regards to my previous comment, I meant it from the perspective of Adam (humanity) being the custodians/caretaker of God's creation with its fulfillment in Christ.
I enjoyed the explanation of how the warnings of Peterson via 2016 have now come to pass as we have entered the next level of the breakdown. I also really loved the bit about contraception and how that principle of recreation at the expense of procreation manifests itself all throughout society. I had just been re-listening to the Pageaus discussing the story of Sodom and Gomorrah with Jordan Peterson, so the conversations tied in together quite nicely.
So true, George. Nice way of summarizing contraception as the excess of re-creation > pro-creation. The story of Lot is an inverted Abraham exodus story, like the pattern in the wrong direction. Roberts lays it out nicely in Echoes of Exodus.
@@DerekJFiedler I’ll have to add it to the reading list. Mathieu Pageau explains how the problem of Sodom was the problem of wasting your seed, and all the ripple effects that come along with overemphasizing recreation. Abrahams wife becoming pregnant is meant to directly contrast with whats occurring in Sodom. Hearing Jonathan delve into that a little more was perfect timing.
01:46:16 - Let's settle this: "Pageauian" or "Pageauvian"? What say you? There can only be one... *Don't forget to support the channel by clicking the "subscribe" and "👍" buttons :)
Look at this spelled out: Pageauian. Ack. Five vowels in a cluster. Imagine the reader {American} with no sense of French, or Francois. Think about Pageauvian -- wrong form for English -- sounds better, maybe, but too close a rhyme to Jovian, which would be "of Jupiter," which would also mean "of Zeus." Seems unChristian. How about Pageauic --which is uncommon, but does occur as an English form. Also, rhymes with heroic, and for some of us, Jonathan is a hero. Awesome conversation. Derek draws the laughter out of Jonathan, which is a pleasure to see.
It's because of the noble work of those advocating for "Pageauvian" #PageauvianForever (Not an actual hashtag at the moment) I'm glad you enjoyed the convo.
In mirroring Elijah, Elisha also performed double the number of miracles as Elijah did...a validation of receiving a double portion (or "scoop" as Jonathan called it) of Elijah's spirit.
@@DerekJFiedler Yes, the Gauls tried to invade Greece in 279 BC but failed, then they moved to settle Central Anatolia. Their culture was still very much alive at the time of the apostles, and their Celtic lenguage survived at least until the Vth century AD.
@@anderaristondo1259 some of my family were Greek speaking Galatians that fled Anatolia during the genocide. Their Greek was distinct from other forms of Greek to the point of being unintelligible and they were all tall and fair.
Roger Scruton appears like he was zapped by electricity before starting the day. Is this the video you are referring to, Laura? - ua-cam.com/video/hPAFBZvYfLU/v-deo.html
Christòs anéstē, Derek! "Pageauian" and "Pageauvian" are both fine [cp. "Rousseauian" (common) and "Rousseauvian" (rare)]. Now, if you want to go full Latin, I believe "Pageau" derives from French "page" (= pageboy), which is from Latin "pagius," and French "-eau" (male diminutive suffix), which is from Latin "-ellus". (Jonathan will have to ask his grandparents to confirm...)[Incidentally "pagius" ultimately derives from Greek "paidíon" (= boy, lad, young manservant), well... because everything ultimately derives from Greek.] [The surname would be "Pagiellus," if it were actually attested in Latin; it is not.] Thus "Pagiellian" [cp. "Roussel(l)ian" (very rare)] is my official nomination for adjective. Keep up the good work, Derek!
It's a good question. I would agree with C.S. Lewis in his book Problem of Pain. Here's a good summary - www.intellectualtakeout.org/blog/do-animals-go-heaven-cs-lewis-answer-might-surprise-you/ I hope it helps.
@@DerekJFiedler Thanks Derek, just lost my little best friend so I guess I'm just looking for answers. I love when you talk music with your guest too, and how they reveal the obvious cosmic structures in it. Keep it up!
Watch Jonathan and I's second conversation: Carving Perspective w/ "Iconographic Storytelling" - ua-cam.com/video/tdXNe5sILVo/v-deo.html
Yes. Please: More interviews with Jonathan speaking to someone who shares the frame of reference so deeper insights are illumined
Thanks for the feedback, Christian.
I’m 0:25
Man, just getting through the end of the conversation. Maybe the best interview I've seen yet. Great job Derek
That comes at quite the compliment, James, considering the quality of you discussion with Pageau.
As a protestant I really appreciate the redemptive flavor all of Jonathan's talk about symbolism has.
Haha “Saint Lewis”! Quite the slip
I quite enjoyed that :)
The guy literally wrote the book on Miracles
Perhaps he was accidentally referring to the Missouri city "St. Louis"???
I absolutely needed to hear these topics being discussed at this point in my life. I've watched & put into practice many of Jonathan's teachings over the last couples of years but this may be one of the biggest.
Thank you Derek for asking the tough questions & Jonathan for replying so openly. I'm going to make a permanent change.
Godspeed on your journey. I'm glad this convo could help you along the way.
Time to dig in!
I'm so envious you had the conversation with Jonathan about sexuality. It's so much of what we talk about in Theology of the Body.
and I am envious of your YT channel name.
I'm grateful Pageau was game. Sexuality is an important topic today. What do you get into with Theology of the Body?
@@DerekJFiedler everything, LOL. You can go to my channel and check out my Theology of the Body playlist for more.
At the crux is the concept that God designed our bodies, particularly in the sexual difference, to be a symbol of who God is (as an eternal, loving community of persons) and to tell the story of the Gospel, our destiny to enter into that community as the Bride of Christ.
The symbolism of Christ as the 7th and perfect man proposing to the Samaritan woman is a concept I also learned from TOB (Theology of the Body).
@@PsychoBible this is actually heretical. bishop luke of syracuse spoke about this. its rooted in paganism. sexuality is a gift of nature, and not a divine gift. saint gregory palamas explains this in the triads.
I want a "Vote Kanye" hoodie more than ever!
:D
1:01:58 Just re-listening and the section about the sabbath and music being the horn without the point really resonated. Thats such an incredible image of recreation.
The conversation almost didn't go that direction. So glad it did ;)
Re-Creation is how I approach each Saturday now, using music and other "point-less" activities.
@@DerekJFiedler Same here. The seventh day is the day of exception and recreation. Its the day on the edge of the week, that is unlike the other days. Jonathan did a video on 666 that initially got me thinking down that path. 666 being an attempt to account for everything. Refusing to allow for the exception to exist on the edge. Like having the week stop at the 6th day, refusing to allow for the seven.
Pageau's 666 video is an excellent one. Reminds me of his brother's book, how he demonstrated what happens when you skip the 7th day (rest, rejuvenation, mystery) with a spiraling image that keeps looping and growing until it runs out of space or fractures under the weight of its mass.
@@DerekJFiedler I’ve yet to read Mathieu’s book. I had tried to order it before but it was sold out. I was able place an order the other day, but it has yet to arrive. Looking forward to finally reading it. Thats an interesting image to ponder. It took me a second to visualize it. An endlessly productive mass growing in size until it fractures under its own weight. Like a tower of babel.
@@06rtm I'm pleased to hear you getting closer to the Language of Creation. When you are ready, you may want to watch my 3 part review taking a deeper look into Matthieu Pageau's book. It may provide you with deeper insights.
And yes, a tower of babel ;)
The adjective to describe the Dr.Who world is Whovian . . .
I'm on team Pageauvian ;) (also it sounds like Jovian)
You are a wise one. Now go into all nations and spread the word.
huge final question and response. awesome.
Haha it seemed like a simple question in the head. Realized the weight of it when I spoke the question about Love and Logos. Then, Pageau answered with precision. Fitting conclusion wouldn't you say?
Wait, were you referring to Pageauian vs. Pageauvian? ;)
@@DerekJFiedler haha actually i wrote that for the question at 1:32:40 about 'how is all this joined together'. but yeah I liked all the 'final' questions ;)
Good interview Derek. Thanks
My pleasure. By the way, Logos, did you get to the last question on Love/Logos? I'd be curious what you think of Pageau's answer.
@@DerekJFiedler challenging Derek.
in buddhism I've seen love being a tool or expression of the beyond the self reality. its an externalsing activity to pour love out.
I can kinda see it but there is a lot in that answer he gave particularly in what it means to act in life
Music is the heartbeat of the cosmos! 🌚☄️❤️💫
Yeeeaaaaa buddddy!!
Glad you dropped in, James.
1:29:35 Very thankful about it being discussed here. It gives me a lot of insight in a world where everything around this subject is confusing. At least to me it always seemed very vague what the truth is about it.
Amazing content, thanks!
You got it!
When JP and you talked about the "handing down" and the echoes, I was waiting for him to say "It's handed down and handed down, and then it's handed back"
So good. Thank you, David.
@@DerekJFiedler It was a very good talk. With regards to my previous comment, I meant it from the perspective of Adam (humanity) being the custodians/caretaker of God's creation with its fulfillment in Christ.
@@davidb4020 Nicely said. Adam, Son's of Adam, the Last Adam (Christ).
Discussion of a Bach Fuge at around 9:00 is similar to the ideas in Goedel Escher Bach by Douglas Hofstadter
Does Hofstadter make a case for emergence and emanation in his book?
the symbolism of "game stop" and "robin hood" could not have been more on point.
Can't make this stuff up better if we had tried. Symbolism happens. Glad the breakdown was helpful for you.
Great conversation!
God speed and God bless.
Thank you! You too! Glad you subscribed.
@@DerekJFiedler
It was supposed to say "conversation" of course haha.
Amazing as always
Couldn't contain my laughter at "Saint Lewis" 😂
Funny you commenting on this now. Richard Rohlin and I revisited this moment in a recent podcast.
What was your favorite insight and why?
I enjoyed the explanation of how the warnings of Peterson via 2016 have now come to pass as we have entered the next level of the breakdown. I also really loved the bit about contraception and how that principle of recreation at the expense of procreation manifests itself all throughout society. I had just been re-listening to the Pageaus discussing the story of Sodom and Gomorrah with Jordan Peterson, so the conversations tied in together quite nicely.
So true, George. Nice way of summarizing contraception as the excess of re-creation > pro-creation.
The story of Lot is an inverted Abraham exodus story, like the pattern in the wrong direction. Roberts lays it out nicely in Echoes of Exodus.
@@DerekJFiedler I’ll have to add it to the reading list. Mathieu Pageau explains how the problem of Sodom was the problem of wasting your seed, and all the ripple effects that come along with overemphasizing recreation. Abrahams wife becoming pregnant is meant to directly contrast with whats occurring in Sodom. Hearing Jonathan delve into that a little more was perfect timing.
@@06rtm Sweet. Yes, Definitely do. Alastair Roberts plans to join the podcast in the near future to carry the conversation even further.
Saving the seed
Considering all the flood and water crossing examples, what's the symbolism of Jonathan getting flooded out of his house?
As it turned out, renewal/re-creation
Mark Vernon's book on Dante's Divine Comedy gets right to the heart of this sexuality thing. EROS ... that leads us to the Divine
Thanks for sharing!
01:46:16 - Let's settle this: "Pageauian" or "Pageauvian"?
What say you? There can only be one...
*Don't forget to support the channel by clicking the "subscribe" and "👍" buttons :)
Why not "Pageauan"?
Ooo we can ad "Pageauan" to the mix too. Reminds me of "Padawan" from Star Wars.
Pageauvian has a better ring to it.
Pageauvan
the confusion increases
@@FourOf92000 😂
Great content
Glad you dropped in, George.
@@DerekJFiedler Thrilled to see you two talk
Look at this spelled out: Pageauian. Ack. Five vowels in a cluster. Imagine the reader {American} with no sense of French, or Francois.
Think about Pageauvian -- wrong form for English -- sounds better, maybe, but too close a rhyme to Jovian, which would be "of Jupiter," which would also mean "of Zeus." Seems unChristian.
How about Pageauic --which is uncommon, but does occur as an English form. Also, rhymes with heroic, and for some of us, Jonathan is a hero.
Awesome conversation. Derek draws the laughter out of Jonathan, which is a pleasure to see.
Incredible conversation. You know, I’m surprised that the simpler “Pageauan” hasn’t taken off.
It's because of the noble work of those advocating for "Pageauvian"
#PageauvianForever
(Not an actual hashtag at the moment)
I'm glad you enjoyed the convo.
In mirroring Elijah, Elisha also performed double the number of miracles as Elijah did...a validation of receiving a double portion (or "scoop" as Jonathan called it) of Elijah's spirit.
Love it. Thanks BB Smith
St. LEWIS .....Yeah.....🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽🙏🏽
Galatians were Gauls/Celts, but from Central Anatolia.
How interesting. Thanks for sharing, Ander. Was it that Gual groups migrated to Central Anatolia?
@@DerekJFiedler Yes, the Gauls tried to invade Greece in 279 BC but failed, then they moved to settle Central Anatolia. Their culture was still very much alive at the time of the apostles, and their Celtic lenguage survived at least until the Vth century AD.
@@anderaristondo1259 some of my family were Greek speaking Galatians that fled Anatolia during the genocide. Their Greek was distinct from other forms of Greek to the point of being unintelligible and they were all tall and fair.
@@DaFooling Nice to know that descendants of old Galatians are still around.
Bible, Escher, Bach - The Eternal Golden Fleece
I have an Ezekiel too! He’s 19. 🙂
1:14:35-1:14:52 this part made me laugh out loud
😂 Glad you had a good laugh.
The Ontology of Love with Roger Scruton on youtube also talks about the attentiveness of love.
Thank you for the lead. I will check it out. Intriguing title: ontology as the study of being + Love the great bonding agent.
Roger Scruton appears like he was zapped by electricity before starting the day. Is this the video you are referring to, Laura? - ua-cam.com/video/hPAFBZvYfLU/v-deo.html
@@DerekJFiedler Yes that is is the one. I think his brain was so active that it electrified his hair -- absolutely!
@@DerekJFiedler That's the one!
Epic.
If you want more on Music, Sexuality and the Bible, watch my conversation with *Alastair Roberts* -- ua-cam.com/video/FIvA4kV_Uqs/v-deo.html
Feeling like we need a few brute forces for Chaos to handle some of the dirty work piling up 2 day
a m a z i n g
We will have Caesar!
1:26:02 Same lol..... oof
LOL! Glad I'm not the only one, Lisa.
@@DerekJFiedler Same, I luckily didn't have to hold my tongue. I was alone
30
People need some practice to make good children. The work gets done best when your having fun doing it.
100%
28:02
Anyone on here check-out/study ACIM?
Play games, do pointless things, listen to music.......
but on the sabbath
It's how we roll. Our family does point-less activities to complete the day and to close the week.
The sound is terrible in this one :(
song of songs is not about sexuality at all. read saint gregory of nyssa
Christòs anéstē, Derek! "Pageauian" and "Pageauvian" are both fine [cp. "Rousseauian" (common) and "Rousseauvian" (rare)]. Now, if you want to go full Latin, I believe "Pageau" derives from French "page" (= pageboy), which is from Latin "pagius," and French "-eau" (male diminutive suffix), which is from Latin "-ellus". (Jonathan will have to ask his grandparents to confirm...)[Incidentally "pagius" ultimately derives from Greek "paidíon" (= boy, lad, young manservant), well... because everything ultimately derives from Greek.] [The surname would be "Pagiellus," if it were actually attested in Latin; it is not.] Thus "Pagiellian" [cp. "Roussel(l)ian" (very rare)] is my official nomination for adjective. Keep up the good work, Derek!
This is fantastic! I am blessed by your thorough etymological analysis. I will have to take your "Pagiellian" offering into consideration.
🌚☄️❤️💫
What is Jonathan drinking the whole time?! LOL
That's a big bottle
Sparkling water. Perrier.
@@bethanyfiedler-riddle4521 thanks, LOL
He's swigging the holy water.
What about facial condoms?
The monarchist has a _VOTE_ sweatshirt 🤔
🤣
May be a silly question but what’s your thoughts on pets and heaven? Is there dogs in heaven? Dogs and cats? Would be nice.
It's a good question. I would agree with C.S. Lewis in his book Problem of Pain. Here's a good summary - www.intellectualtakeout.org/blog/do-animals-go-heaven-cs-lewis-answer-might-surprise-you/
I hope it helps.
@@DerekJFiedler Thanks Derek, just lost my little best friend so I guess I'm just looking for answers. I love when you talk music with your guest too, and how they reveal the obvious cosmic structures in it.
Keep it up!