People hold rigidly to popularized information. But, perhaps it's one of those things where the end result and difference in feel is so small that there is no effective difference but there an arguable technical difference in that the more you curve, the better cutting you get? Maybe it's not a linear function but rather exponential?
Nice to know that the staff of Shadiversity are still learning and growing. That straight boi looks great for single handed use especially with that distal taper partly making up for the absence of profile taper, pulling the point of balance closer to the guard. Tyranth, I’d particularly like to see you fight with it one handed. While you’re at it replace that pretty flower with a guard like a rondel dagger. Then you’ll have something.
An important thing to notice, Tyranth doesn't move the sheath back, while doing his draw-cut. Compared to Shad, he's pulling back the sheath. To me, those are two different draw cut techniques, because Shad's version draws out the sword faster out of the sheath, than Tyranth's, which also means it doesn't get hindered by the sheath as much. It's a superior technique than holding the sheath in place during the draw-cut.
Shogo was an Iai trainee. Shad and Tyranth should look into Seki Sensei for a more legit weapon handling advice. Seki Sensei pulls the sheath back when doing a draw cut or drawing the sword out in general. So instead of pulling the sword forward, you pull the sheath backward.
@@xdragon2k That is proper technique, but only needed when using a long sword compared to one's arm length. Because modern westerners are often taller than pre modern Japanese, they need longer swords.
I learned that on day one that you remove the saya from the sword, not the other way around.. by turning your hips and pulling the saya back it cuts down drawing time in half. I have never seen any Ryu do it differently.
@@xdragon2k also its all about body manipulation too, cuz their using more than their hands and arms their also using every other part of their body to increase an more effective delivery of faster drawing their swords
I am an Iaijutsu practitioner but also have experience in foil and sabre fencing and have had some initial training in longsword (Fiore dei Liberi). I have been experimenting recently (for a video of my own) with drawing and cutting using a longsword versus katanas (of standard and extra length) and I have some observations. You were doing your draws from a hand held scabbard, but when the swords are worn it does change the mechanics of the draw. When worn in the Japanese manner (saya/scabbard worn inside the obi and the straps of the hakama) the katanas can easily be drawn, and also rotated to change the direction and angle of the draw and cut, however this is virtually impossible with the longsword. When wearing the longsword suspended from a sword belt it is easily drawn, but there are some minor disadvantages: 1. It is a longer reach to grasp the sword and scabbard, which slows down the draw and also telegraphs your intention to your opponent. 2. The cross guard can sometimes get caught in one’s clothing. FYI, technique often used to power cuts when drawing the katana is tenouchi; you should try using that on some of these draw cuts also.
I carry a handgun for personal protection in the US, and I spend a great deal of time practicing drawing my gun, not only quickly but also in different situations (for example, close range retention, one handed only, drawing after being knocked on the ground, etc.) I always liked the katana specifically because of Iaijutsu, which seems unique with Japanese swordsmanship. Always wondered if other sword designs could be as smooth and quick as the katana, because I did notice certain design elements of the katana makes for a smoother draw despite other disadvantages.
I won't say I "train" with both, but I play with both and I was thinking all these same points as I watched this. The harness I made for my longsword is the same as what's done in Todd's Workshop's video on how to make historical ones, instead of using a frog like Shad likes to do, so that could be a difference too. I have also changed my iai technique to what was shown on Let's Ask Seki Sensei and that has greatly improved my draw speed with a katana after I got used to it. Something that is hard to do with a harnessed longsword. I have to say, I love both, but if it came to a zombie apocalypse situation, I would choose the longsword for two main reasons: slightly longer blade length (I say slightly because my katana has a 32" nagasa) and I don't care about cosmetically damaging the longsword, in fact I'm letting my longsword develop patina because I think it looks cool. But I am also comparing a custom $700 katana from Swords of Northshire to a $200 Honshu longsword.
@@shadiversity Ok, as the meme goes: "I never thought i would get this far" Btw ¿Do you remember the first video you did back in the day about solitary towers and how rare they where? Well, I have been trying to make you this question since back then: Did you take into account the chained watchtowers of the Mediterranean Sea?
The draw thing is probably just muscle memory. If you have trained a lot drawing one. the other will feel weird. It just isn't the pattern of movement that you are used to.
As someone with extreme allergies, my eyes itched in sympathy with him. (It's dead of winter and sub freezing temps where I am, and I'm super congested and skin red/itching/burning. But it's year round for me hahaha) I almost think periodic hay fever is worse than year-round allergies because it can be sudden and more unfamiliar discomfort and such.
I used to have horrible hay fever. About 20 years ago, I started taking jiaogulan for my heart. I unexpectedly lost all my symptoms of hay fever. It turns out, they feed jiaogulan to horses to fix hay fever. I still take it and haven't had hay fever since.
Crazy to me that people try and give the katana's curve some mystical property of making it slash/cut better when in reality it's just a byproduct of the differential cooling, as the edge hardening faster than the spine causes the metal to warp. That's all. That's the entire reason it's there. If they had made their swords using a spring treatment oil quench it would have made the blades straight like the one in the video
You can also compensate for the curve depending on the stacked material and cooling method, since the tachi are more significantly curved than the katana. So I’d say the slight curve is still there since it does make drawing more ergonomic and faster, even accounting for tapered long swords.
I have a black belt (nidan) in Bujinkan and have trained in Japan. Please believe me when I say that in battlefield combat, the most lethal way to employ the katana was to thrust with it. Cutting tatami and bamboo was a post-Warring States period thing. Also note, the Japanese equivalent of a cavalry saber was the tachi, which was more curved than a katana and would have been used more for slashing cuts. Also, the most famous ninja, Hattori Hanzo, was a spearman also known as Yari Hanzo (Spear Hanzo).
I’m not sure which Hattori Hanzō you’re referring to. The heads of the Hattori family were all called Hanzō. The Hattori family were originally samurai, distinct from village spies. The primary weapon of samurai is the yari, and since the Hattori were samurai, their main weapon was, of course, the yari.
If I recall correctly to support your claim. Back in the day a 2 inch puncture is lethal from infection/internal bleeding. Such an action requires a lot less effort than a powerful slash and safer.
There was a time when straight bladed katana were fairly common on the battlefield and many samurai actually preferred them. A longer blade with a normal amount of curve was cut shorter which removed around 98% of the curve.
No we have no historical evidence of a straight bladed katana. None. What we have is a double edged straight blade called a Tsurugi. what you are referring to is when the tachi where shortened and it did not make it straight.
There was a Guillotine Blades experiment video from "Know Art" that found some significant difference between edge shape. It is related and maybe interesting to test how that applies to swords. Love your Videos - keep it up
A single edge blade can be similar to an axe with a thick spine and a long taper to the edge. Vs a double edge where there is less simply because if the sword was mirrored exactly for both sides it would be too heavy so they are much thinner and so the angle of the edge is much more narrow.
The more I see katanas compared to other swords the more I believe what truly makes the katana have merit is as a self defense weapon. Not a war sword. Not a duel sword. Nor even a back up weapon. What it is good at is being a reasonable length for carrying day to day. Quick to draw, and being adequate at thrusting and great at slashing. Funnily enough, these are the exact same qualities that we look for in firearms for every day carry(EDC). There are better guns than pistols for sure, but if you are going to carry something all day every day you pick the one that feels comfortable, that you can draw quickly, and can get the job done adequately.
The uchi katana we know as just a katana was the peacetime EDC sword. In war the much larger tachi was common but for mounted samurai the uchi katana made sense as it could be easily drawn if you ran out of arrows or your naginata broke or was lost.
@@mnandeazy34 Exactly. The katana saw a lot more use AFTER the sengoku period (as I understand it). This makes sense because after Tokugawa won there was relative peace. However, this probably would have been an uneasy peace and samurai would still want to be armed day to day, especially if they were once considered an enemy. I'm definitely not an expert on Japanese history though, so I wouldn't mind input on this take, it makes a lot of sense to me though. It would make sense to me that the katana being a great EDC for the time period would then become the symbol of the samurai and be intertwined in the legacy of legendary warriors. After all, post war these samurai were still around, and became more political than martial, but their notoriety would still be remembered from the sengoku period. Whenever you saw these warriors in person you would probably see them wearing a katana and conflate the two together. Imagine seeing Lancelot in person just walking down the street in the medieval period. He wouldn't be holding a spear or poleaxe, they're too big. You'd probably see him wearing a sword and THAT would be the iconic image in your mind anytime you saw him, regardless of what he used on the battlefield (I know Lancelot wasn't real, but the point stands).
Draw cut being cutting from the sheath, and pull cutting are pretty common terms. That said, japanese swordsmanship encompasses a lot of techniques, and even push cutting is employed, so even "pull cutting" would be a misnomer I suppose. There's specific names for all of these things in Japanese that eliminate confusion among practitioners, but Shad has a really mixed audience, so using terms like Nukitsuke is only going to lose people. It's hard to use general terms accessible to everyone and still be clear.
There's a whole martial art which is about drawing the sword from the sheath and cutting because most civilian fights are decided within the first ten seconds when noone is wearing armour
It’s also how most self defense uses with handguns are decided, since you rarely walk around with the gun pre-drawn for moral, legal, and just plain practical reasons. So you have to quickly get that gun out of your holster and into your hand. The vast majority of self defense uses of handguns don’t even involve rounds being fired, as simply drawing the gun gets the bad guy to back off. But you still need to be able to quickly and efficiently draw that gun for that deterrent to work. Also the same reason you always carry with a round in the chamber, since even racking the slide takes too much time and effort in such a critical window.
A slash test on a rounded bundle if leather (maybe wrapped around a plastic barrel or bucket) about torso size would be an interesting test to see if the slash between straight or curved shows different cut characteristics.
I can understand your reasons for the dislike of the lotus tsuba. My two questions are 1.Does it protect the hand of the user any better than the standard smooth katana tsuba? 2. Does it have any ability to catch the opponent's blade allowing blade control where the standard tsuba does not?
Hey Shad, your content over years really got me started through studying about history of swords and other weapons around the world. I was wondering if you’d consider doing a video on the Kyū Guntō (old military sword) and Shin Gunto (new military sword). These were the swords used by the Japanese military before and during World War II, and they seem like cool mix of tradition and modernization at least for the time period they largely used in. Plus, they were basically some of the last swords to be used in large scale in war as recently as WW2. I have seen some notable content discuss them, but I would like your opinion on them.
lets not forget with the Iaido (draw cut), youre supposed to rotate your hips away from the sword at the same time as you are drawing to make the draw even faster and obviously rotation works better with a curved sword opposed to a straight one but id think that this was all formulated AFTER the curve, not "oh this is how we draw out our sword to cut things, lets make a sword that is curved to make it better"
Just to be clear so that nobody gets confused, iaido is a martial art form that encompasses a lot of things, not a move or technique. Specifically cutting from the draw is known as nuki-tsuke or nuki-uchi depending on what it is that you're trying to do.
Dear friends.. Katana curvature was first introduced with Tachi swords, and were mainly distinguished as cavalry swords. The curvature made it easier to draw cut from horseback, aswell as make the swing cutting more effective. Keep in mind that Tachi were longer than Katana, and so its curvature was bigger. Also, remember about about katana drawing techniques, called Kata, which require drawing saya back etc. All of that makes this cuvature more significant than you think and show in this video. Altough great material!
I think the main reason for the straight design is mainly familiarity. Like Shogo said, many people were practicing with shinai at the time so using a straighter sword translates shinai techniques better than with a curved sword.
I agree with Tyranth; curved katanas are better at being katanas than straight katanas. Also, given context, you're not typically going to be needing a super duper strong thrust in order to effectively assassinate someone in robes.
Everytime I get the notification to say a new video has been uploaded. I get so excited to watch. I love the debates on this video i am liking how unbiased it is. Great video again Shad
18:00 the thing you are forgetting in your body mechanics is the fact you are swinging from the shoulder. the shoulder is your pivot point during the cut. (with a single handed draw and cut) thus every cut is a draw cut, because the swing from your shoulder causes every blade to slice, regardless of blade shape, as you pull it through the target. a sword is not an axe.
One thing ive noticed on straight katanas is it's easier to vibrate than a regular katana. An easy way to see this is by holding the sword and taking your fist and bumping the side of the blade down the length of the sword with it to see how much it vibrates. The cool thing, though, is the sword will have a dead spot where it doesn't vibrate at all, and imo that's the best place to cut with, so it doesn't ring your hands. You can't really do that very well with a curved katana though.
the curve makes so much sense to me.. i've used a lot of different kinds of knives in the kitchen, and a round blade feels like it's pushing _itself_ for you. it makes it like a cleaver. Which makes sense for the legends of it chopping up whole people, buuut.. then again, a straight blade has that 'sliding' effect that we've all felt if we accidentally caught our fingers on a straight knife edge and pulled them along. that's also great for cutting deeper... i think it's 'chop vs slice'
Truth be told, the vast majority of japanese swords are more comparable to sabers than cross swords (arming sword, longsword, greatsword). And are more useful on horseback than on your feet. While kenjutsu and other japanese sword arts seen today have existed for centuries, they are more about meditation than military technique. They only somewhat resemble how these swords were used on the battlefield in the Edo period by samurai. The curve in a kitchen blade is so you can roll the cut on a cutting board. The curve on an odachi is to make the arc of the draw from the sheath easier. Neither curve serves the purpose of reducing the force necessary to cut.
Taxidermist doesnt sound like a bad word to me. You r making art from death and make a simulation of life. The interpretation of thing is on other people and their asumptions. Dont let them bother you.
20:34 In defense to the Sakabatō, you're not supposed to draw it with the sharp edge pointing outwards, but towards you, it's an inverse-blade! 😂👊🏼💥...
I always knew the katana wasn't curved enough for the enhanced slicing but I still prefer the slight curve to straight or more aggressively curved swords.
-Hystorical katanas are made from different grades of steel right? Hard on the edge and soft on the spine I seem to remember. Them being clasically curved could very well be simply due to differential thermal contraction stress when they are quenched after forging.- Edit: note to self; watch the full video before commenting lol. But I was close so thats nice
I've always wanted to get a straight katana of equal quality to one of my curved ones, and see their difference on the target. If I could make a suggestion: cutting pool noodles isn't going to give you enough target resistance to make any comparisons off of. You guys need to be cutting soaked and rolled beach mats, tatami, or even cardboard to put up some better target resistance. Cutting from the draw comparison was a nice illustration of the differences, especially illustrating the angle and such. Nice video.
Still depends on the wielder and the thing that you want to cut, not all wooden is the same not always you r gonna cut in the same edge aligment. Previous programs use robots and multiple test to have a deterministic result.
i think something that needs to be explored more is cutting against materials that offer more resistance. i could imagine the curved katana being noticably better here, especially for cuts near the tip of the blade, because the blade is angled to more closely align with the target, allowing it to slice along. i would imagine it to be easier to make a slice with the tip and continue the motion of the cut - a straight edge might feel more resistance in that situation. just to make it clear, the situation i am talking about would be somthing like a vertical/overhead cut downwards, where the tip of the sword slices along the chest of a dummy. I'm not talking about a cut that would get stopped at the shoulders, but one where the motion continues.
Exactly. Hard target cutting is where you're going to see the biggest difference. I've seen demonstrations of straight swords and curved swords on bamboo, and oftentimes the cut is cleaner on the curved one, and the straight sword tends to transmit more shock so you see more breaking and splintering going on. I've always wanted to do the two myself in a side by side to physically feel the difference.
In my own testing with training swords, the slight curve of the katana allows you to slip thrusts around certain guards of your opponent without having to significantly reposition yourself to do so. It also makes certain wrapping parries slightly easier. Certainly not an end-all-be-all, but it is important to understand the advantages and disadvantages of any weapon you might be using.
I have no dislike on japanese swords and find them cool. I still never understood why everyone treats the Katana as curved as a Saber in terms of estimation how well it will cut. Sure, there are some that are curvish, but not as much as I would say "This cuts better because of the curve"
I always suspected that the difference between straight and katana-curved, if there were any, would be extremely minimal at best. And more the result of traditions, aesthetics and the making process. Yet another reason not to take all "facts" about weapons for granted.
I was under the impression that back when tachi and katana were made a long time ago that the curve was a result of the quenching process along with the hamon
a curve is best for edge alinement. To me swords with curves were meant as a easy sword to cut with because people did not have to focus on edge alinement in battle; a curved sword basically being a training sword for people that have never fought with a sword. if you put the blade side down, then let the hilt of the sword roll freely in your hand, the weight of the blade will tell you how a sword will prefer to turn in your hand when cutting tougher targets.
I've watched so many videos, and have this seen so many times, but this is the first time, that it occured to me: Shad probably almost singlehandedly finances the pool noodle industry in his area! I kinda wonder, what the people running the shops think, when they see Shad walking up to the register with yet another batch of pool noodles.
I remember people making the same jokes about Paul Harrell (rest in peace) buying the entire stock of large soda bottles at his local store to shoot at on his channel.
Another minimal difference (as many differences seem to be in this video) is that the tip of the straight katana would be a bit faster while cutting because of its straightness and therefore it would feel slightly "longer" for the same amount of material.
Im actually more on shad's point of view, the only benefit i saw worth mentioning was the draw cut, and i don't really care about the draw cuts since i hardly ever attempt them or probably would
The curve of a "normal" katana is a byproduct of the traditional Japanese forging process, not as a specific created shape. The curve was introduced in the traditional forging process from the use of clay to edge harden during a full heat + quench. The clay keeping the core and spine of the blade tempered and soft, but allowing the edge to harden is what also introduces the curve. You mention this, but that quench is what warps the blade into curving upwards. A straight blade goes into the quench, the curved blade comes out. If the curve was introduced in the forging process for a functional reason, smiths would have made a point to aim for a specific curve.
Imo, it's not just a byproduct. Swords during and before the heian period used to be straight. In my interpretation the curve introduced on the tachi was intentional due to how they were used on horseback in those periods, but later the curve never fully went away during the transition to uchigatana as 1) it maybe became a cultural standard for swords to have a curve, 2) the smithing method was established for tachis and carried over to the uchigatana and 3) curve does make the sword easier to draw for iai, which would've been the main usecase for an uchigatana outside of being a status symbol. You can see the counter evolution in the curve as we get further away from tachis and mounted swordsmanship; katanas get shorter and less curved all the way until the Meiji period where you again see straight blades on some police swords. This is speculation based on my own experience in iaido and kobudo.
@@Tunturisorsa It is a byproduct, though. In the same way that many of the resources and materials that we use today are really just byproducts of refining oil. The curve in the blade is introduced in the quench, not the hammer or grinding phase. One thing to keep in mind when it comes to Japanese smithing is their isolationist foreign policy meant that they were limited to their very poor domestic iron and steel production. That's why classical historical Japanese blades had so many folds upon folds, it was an attempt to homogenize the metal. You bring up the Meiji period, and all I have to do is point you to the fact that Japan was able to start upgrading their metalworking via foreign knowledge and materials. The straight blades of the Meiji period are due to the fact that the better European steel making its way onto shore didn't require the differential hardening as much. The entire point of the differential hardening via clay that creates the curve in the metal is to have a hard edge, but attempt to keep the core and spine less brittle. The new imported metalworking techniques and materials were inherently less brittle after quench than the domestic Japanese steel, hence why differential hardening wasn't as common across Europe.
@@ShaggyRogers1 Heian period quite early Japan used straight blades similar to the Chinese Jian. Not the Meiji period. The curve came in with tachis and I agree likely due to horseback combat even though the Yari was likely the main weapon. The curve stayed with katana and could be due to tradition or they liked the design or it could also have been a byproduct of newer forging techniques possibly a mixture of all of it. You've got to remember a katana that has a soft back hard edge will likely curve in quenching, but that's one design other designs had a soft core but an entire outer coating of hard steel and the differential hardness is from outside to inside these would have been forged curved and didn't curve during the quench and there was a large variety of different differentials some were medium on the sides soft back and core and only a hard edge
The thing is they did later on because there are many different swords, a friend of mine has a near straight sword and mine from an earlier period is very curved so they must’ve known what to do to get how much curvature
@@hismajestylordsmenkhare5878 I'm not the one that tried to bring up straight blades in the Meiji period, don't aim that comment at me. My source for all of this are the traditional Japanese smiths themselves. The blade goes into the quench straight, and it comes out curved. The purpose of the quench and the clay that causes the curve has nothing to do with shape, and everything to do with the innate structural integrity of the metal. This is a well documented technique. The curve might be a happy byproduct, but it is a byproduct of their quenching method. Without the clay to differentially heat treat the blade, the blade would come out in the same form it went in just like a European blade.
Well, a curved blade should have better drawing cut capabilities when doing a circular motion, since the straight one will roll over a bigger area, meaning it wont cut as deep. It will be reversed when doing a straight motion, since the curved one will roll over a bigger area. Think of the extremes, in essence its like a saw vs a circular saw. The saw will cut deeper when going straight, while the circular saw will cut deeper when going in a circle.
That's why Tawars and shamshirs are such beastly cutters, but the katana ain't curved enough. The difference is as then figured out here, in a cut in the initial draw.
Plastic foam is more uniform and shows small differences in cutting better. Meat is very soft, it flexes in 3 dimensions and it has varying degrees of density/toughness. Trying to determine subtle differences in cutting would be more difficult with meat. If the purpose of the test is purely testing lethality, transparent body doubles are better than meat because you can see internal damage such as ruptured organs or broken bones without having to do an autopsy. Meat (with bones) is better for testing something less subtle, like seeing if you could chop a pig in half to test whether you could chop a foe in half.
It seems to me that the cutting ratio would change a lot more on a bigger target. Especially a flat, torso-sized target. A pool noodle doesn’t have enough surface area for the curve to make any difference. Try slashing at a flat surface, and see which sword cuts deeper. That being said, I do agree that the curve in the katana probably isn’t enough to do much.
One advantage for the curve : it protects your hands in sparring, because your knuckles end up being further "behind" the blade. I haven't tried this with katana, but I have noticed the difference comparing sabers to straight swords.
Another small advantage that I found was the curved katana has a slight auto angle correction due to its center of gravity being moved back, so for someone a lil more unexperienced the curve could slightly help feel that straight angle.
I've written an essay about this, comparing sabers, with much deeper curves, to straight swords. My ultimate conclusion is that on foot, the curve barly affects cutting capacity. When mounted on a fast horse that can take tight turns, the curve offers greater protection. If you are on a larger horse that needs more space to turn, they were instructed to protect themselves by presenting the point, giving the horse the space it needs to turn.
Don't know why this myth is so often said, especially when you see how impressive some straight bladed European swords can cut. However, pool noodles isn't the best testing medium to compare. I think it would be more interesting to compare with a thick tatami mat maybe with a bamboo core as well. It will be a harder target to cut through and give better comparison when a target is not as easy to get through all the way.
@@morrigankasa570 @morrigankasa570 I have and understand that it is harder to get tatami mats shipped to Australia, however my point still stands, that you cannot tell the limitations of one of these swords compared to the other only using a pool noodle. Although as a JSA student and someone who also has a Hema background, I already know there isn't a big difference between curved and straight blades. But if you want to paint a picture to people, you should use a testing medium that will push the limits more on which each sword is capable of. Pool Noodles and Water bottles only require a sharp enough blade with good edge alignment, and in the case of pool noodles, sufficient cutting speed to avoid the noodle flopping on impact. The sword doesn't need to be a competition level cutter to get through those kinds of targets. Again, I am sure both swords can still get through some thick tatami without issue, but it would be more interesting to compare the two with that kind of cutting medium to drive the point home. If that isn't available than maybe another cutting medium that can add some extra resistance. For most casual people watching this video they won't really be thinking about all of this though, so its not hugely important for the general audience.
I think you've solved it. The fastest backup sword perfectly fits its niche. One extra arrow, or life & death with a yari design and practice, focus on quickdraw iaijutsu of samurai, its the only advantage it needs.
so we conclude: Shad and Tyranth think the straight sword is better at thrusting than the gay sword. I call bs on that. The sexual orientation of the sword has nothing to do with how well it thrusts. It's all in how you use it. [may contain stupid humor, not to be taken seriously]
I am glad they also mentioned the Metatron video. I imagine there's a lot of culturally ingrained "knowledge" that is generally accepted because it's from a generally correct and athoritative source. As to why this particular one is common, I have a thought, but it's only supposition, no way for me to validate: The curve was originally an unintended artifact of the differential hardening (it so I understand), though it's later intentional for the form and appearance. I think maybe it's originally an ancient 'bug not feature' your thing. As I said, it's pure supposition, but it seems to fit the circumstances. Though I can see that some would be offended, that is not the intent. I almost see it as something told by the smith to sometime who asked, bit didn't want to explain is from the hardening, but spread, and smiths laufhed to each other but didn't correct. I've vaguely remembered similar origins of a common misconception, I cannot remember which at this moment. The difference in drawing the sword from the sheath is fascinating. (Especially the straight 'katana') I loved this video. Discussions of functionality is always fun.
11:40 my understanding is that the Japanese word "iai" as in the art iaido means drawing the sword from the scabbard and cutting in the same motion. So you could use that to differentiate in the future.
9:31 Not to argue but the pool noodle test isn't really demonstrating slashing it's just cutting and anything that is sharp will cut. Besides he said the katana would be better at it not that a "ninjato" couldn't slash.
... you can easily calculate how much difference the slight curve of the katana makes. We are talking about a couple of 1/100 millimetres in arc length/cutting ratio. A scimitar is a different matter.
I keep having this thought about a way to test the claims about curved swords helping with edge alignment. My hypothesis is that it is not the curve that helps with edge alignment, but rather the fact that the blade is behind the "force line" that you mentioned when talking about thrusts. So the idea is that Tyranth could modify 3 swords. 2 straight, 1 curved: First, give them round handles to make any help with edge alignment extra noticeable. Second, tilt one of the straight blades back from the handle, so that it roughly coincides with the curved sword when held in the hand. Then test all 3 swords on rows of pool noodles or something else that needs good edge alignment. If I'm right, the curved sword and tilted straight sword should perform equally well, and they would both perform better than the normal straight sword.
And the curved tip is better for thrusts under certain circumstances, because the tip is offest from the rest of the blade. It's deceptive, because it means that the tip gets there faster, at least on an upward thrust, into the neck or armpit, for example.
Curved swords of course do offer benefits at cutting softer targets, otherwise they wouldn't exist all over the world in multiple cultures, time periods and locations.
Yes, but from what I remember from a video that Matt did quite a while ago you need a far more aggressive curve than what we see with katanas in order to realize that effect. Think pulwar style of blade, which looks almost silly. The curve of the katana is a byproduct of the hardening process and not a deliberate effort to create a blade that's better at cutting soft targets. And mind you, swords are bad at cutting or stabbing hard targets anyway, so it's kind of redundant as all swords are meant for use against soft targets primarily, with a few exceptions.
Thevslight curve a katana has, have absolutely no influence. I would actually say that a broad European sword with a good profile taper is better just because the angle of attack.
there is a lot of stuff all over the world that just exists because people like how it looks or because that is how it was always done, or tradition... it does not show that it has any benefits...
@@FelixEnder Not when it comes to weapons used in combat which is a life and death matter and also tied with economics, experimental or ceremonial weapons are a tiny exception of that rule which doesn't apply to curved swords.
In combat, those 10 degrees during Iai can mean the difference between life and death. There is a historical trend for the katana being more curved during wartime, and being straighter during peacetime. There is significant documentation that during impromptu duels between samurai and "ninja" where the "ninja would carry wakizashi in katana saya so they could have the speed advantage at that first strike. The curve of the katana is a trend design for a specific tactical advantage. Katana are outstanding weapons either way (when well made) whether straight or curved. My personal preference is for straight blades, as that fits my fighting style better than a curved blade of any type.
I think something more interesting to note would be wear patterns. Imagine slicing a flat stone: a flat blade would wear more at the tip whereas a curved would have more evenly distributed wear. Theres a million implications from that alone, but practically it might make a curved blade more long lived/less frequent maintenance
19:10 Katana's also have a notable advantage on longswords when it comes to draw cuts with their relatively short length, less length is less blade you have to pull out before you can cut
Yeah your point is not the best, considering (like stated above) there is alot of Europeans swords smaller then a longsword or broadsword (both different lengths on average) and those same sword existed before the katana.
The idea that ninja would have a special sword is one of the most ridiculous thing ever. It would be like a spy open carrying a gun that only CIA members have.
You should try to test the difference in draw cuts with the saya/shealth being held in the belt instead of just holding the shealth with your offhand while drawing, you will feel the curve indeed make a difference. As a point of historical accuracy, people drew katanas from their waist belt NOT from the saya held in another hand.
I tested this years ago and noticed no difference. I commented that Shogo's video and nobody believed me.......
Well we believe you sir, and tested it too ^_^
@@shadiversity Would you be interested in testing some boob armour to? yes I am building some.
@@shadiversity Would you be interested in testing some boob armour to?
If I can ask, were you examining the end result when you did the draw cuts or how fast you can do a draw cut? Just curious about this
People hold rigidly to popularized information.
But, perhaps it's one of those things where the end result and difference in feel is so small that there is no effective difference but there an arguable technical difference in that the more you curve, the better cutting you get? Maybe it's not a linear function but rather exponential?
Nice to know that the staff of Shadiversity are still learning and growing.
That straight boi looks great for single handed use especially with that distal taper partly making up for the absence of profile taper, pulling the point of balance closer to the guard. Tyranth, I’d particularly like to see you fight with it one handed.
While you’re at it replace that pretty flower with a guard like a rondel dagger. Then you’ll have something.
Skyrim Guard: Have you seen those warriors from Hammerfell? They have curved swords! CURVED.... SWORDS!
Dang, you got to it before me! Skyrim will never die
Also heard this somewhere in my head and lamented that time someone stole my sweet roll.
I used to be an adventurer like you… but then I TOOK AN ARROW IN THE KNEE
An important thing to notice, Tyranth doesn't move the sheath back, while doing his draw-cut. Compared to Shad, he's pulling back the sheath. To me, those are two different draw cut techniques, because Shad's version draws out the sword faster out of the sheath, than Tyranth's, which also means it doesn't get hindered by the sheath as much. It's a superior technique than holding the sheath in place during the draw-cut.
And as I understand from Japanese swordsmanship, usually how it's done
Shogo was an Iai trainee. Shad and Tyranth should look into Seki Sensei for a more legit weapon handling advice. Seki Sensei pulls the sheath back when doing a draw cut or drawing the sword out in general. So instead of pulling the sword forward, you pull the sheath backward.
@@xdragon2k That is proper technique, but only needed when using a long sword compared to one's arm length. Because modern westerners are often taller than pre modern Japanese, they need longer swords.
I learned that on day one that you remove the saya from the sword, not the other way around.. by turning your hips and pulling the saya back it cuts down drawing time in half. I have never seen any Ryu do it differently.
@@xdragon2k also its all about body manipulation too, cuz their using more than their hands and arms their also using every other part of their body to increase an more effective delivery of faster drawing their swords
I am an Iaijutsu practitioner but also have experience in foil and sabre fencing and have had some initial training in longsword (Fiore dei Liberi). I have been experimenting recently (for a video of my own) with drawing and cutting using a longsword versus katanas (of standard and extra length) and I have some observations. You were doing your draws from a hand held scabbard, but when the swords are worn it does change the mechanics of the draw. When worn in the Japanese manner (saya/scabbard worn inside the obi and the straps of the hakama) the katanas can easily be drawn, and also rotated to change the direction and angle of the draw and cut, however this is virtually impossible with the longsword. When wearing the longsword suspended from a sword belt it is easily drawn, but there are some minor disadvantages:
1. It is a longer reach to grasp the sword and scabbard, which slows down the draw and also telegraphs your intention to your opponent.
2. The cross guard can sometimes get caught in one’s clothing.
FYI, technique often used to power cuts when drawing the katana is tenouchi; you should try using that on some of these draw cuts also.
Well I subbed, looking forward to seeing that video mate
I carry a handgun for personal protection in the US, and I spend a great deal of time practicing drawing my gun, not only quickly but also in different situations (for example, close range retention, one handed only, drawing after being knocked on the ground, etc.)
I always liked the katana specifically because of Iaijutsu, which seems unique with Japanese swordsmanship. Always wondered if other sword designs could be as smooth and quick as the katana, because I did notice certain design elements of the katana makes for a smoother draw despite other disadvantages.
I won't say I "train" with both, but I play with both and I was thinking all these same points as I watched this. The harness I made for my longsword is the same as what's done in Todd's Workshop's video on how to make historical ones, instead of using a frog like Shad likes to do, so that could be a difference too. I have also changed my iai technique to what was shown on Let's Ask Seki Sensei and that has greatly improved my draw speed with a katana after I got used to it. Something that is hard to do with a harnessed longsword. I have to say, I love both, but if it came to a zombie apocalypse situation, I would choose the longsword for two main reasons: slightly longer blade length (I say slightly because my katana has a 32" nagasa) and I don't care about cosmetically damaging the longsword, in fact I'm letting my longsword develop patina because I think it looks cool. But I am also comparing a custom $700 katana from Swords of Northshire to a $200 Honshu longsword.
And a bird protest as you are thrusting blades into its tree. "Why are you guys chopping on my home?" LOL
Its Australia where everything's trying to kill you, even 2 blokes with sharp metal sticks are trying to kill your home.
Praised be the algorith!
Hi Shad :D
Hi!
Hi from Finland. Also very well made videos, thanks shad.
@@shadiversity Ok, as the meme goes: "I never thought i would get this far"
Btw ¿Do you remember the first video you did back in the day about solitary towers and how rare they where? Well, I have been trying to make you this question since back then: Did you take into account the chained watchtowers of the Mediterranean Sea?
Praise Algorithmo!
I knew it was only a matter of time before Shad would make any type of response video on Let's ask Shogo
Great vid as always
I am stuck between the straight katana looking cool and cursed.
Just accept it as blursed.
it's a sax now (or maybe you call it seax in English?)
Por que no dos?
to be fair the wrap and fittings on the straight one were way worse looking so i think itd look much better with more standard fittings.
its actually a parody of the mortal blade from sekiro shadows die twice, i honestly don’t mind it.
Shad and Katana Content; a perfect way to start my Monday morning
The draw thing is probably just muscle memory. If you have trained a lot drawing one. the other will feel weird. It just isn't the pattern of movement that you are used to.
Also tachi were more curved but I don't think they were used with iaido......
6:09
Tyranth- "Aaahhhhchoooo"
Shad- "are yuh done?!?!"
Tyranth- "grrr"👁👄👁
😂😂😂
As someone with extreme allergies, my eyes itched in sympathy with him.
(It's dead of winter and sub freezing temps where I am, and I'm super congested and skin red/itching/burning. But it's year round for me hahaha)
I almost think periodic hay fever is worse than year-round allergies because it can be sudden and more unfamiliar discomfort and such.
I used to have horrible hay fever. About 20 years ago, I started taking jiaogulan for my heart. I unexpectedly lost all my symptoms of hay fever. It turns out, they feed jiaogulan to horses to fix hay fever.
I still take it and haven't had hay fever since.
@@Grandwigg As someone from Australia dealing with that hay fever right now from all the wattle .. Yeah I agree.
Crazy to me that people try and give the katana's curve some mystical property of making it slash/cut better when in reality it's just a byproduct of the differential cooling, as the edge hardening faster than the spine causes the metal to warp. That's all. That's the entire reason it's there. If they had made their swords using a spring treatment oil quench it would have made the blades straight like the one in the video
You can also compensate for the curve depending on the stacked material and cooling method, since the tachi are more significantly curved than the katana. So I’d say the slight curve is still there since it does make drawing more ergonomic and faster, even accounting for tapered long swords.
I have a black belt (nidan) in Bujinkan and have trained in Japan. Please believe me when I say that in battlefield combat, the most lethal way to employ the katana was to thrust with it. Cutting tatami and bamboo was a post-Warring States period thing. Also note, the Japanese equivalent of a cavalry saber was the tachi, which was more curved than a katana and would have been used more for slashing cuts. Also, the most famous ninja, Hattori Hanzo, was a spearman also known as Yari Hanzo (Spear Hanzo).
That makes perfect sense. In all forms of sword combat around the world thrusting is just more deadly, more damage to vital organs.
I’m not sure which Hattori Hanzō you’re referring to. The heads of the Hattori family were all called Hanzō. The Hattori family were originally samurai, distinct from village spies. The primary weapon of samurai is the yari, and since the Hattori were samurai, their main weapon was, of course, the yari.
Watanabe Hanzō (Watanabe Moritsuna), who is nicknamed Yari no Hanzō (槍の半蔵, Spear Hanzō)
I've never heard or seen Yari Hanzo in my life.
If I recall correctly to support your claim. Back in the day a 2 inch puncture is lethal from infection/internal bleeding. Such an action requires a lot less effort than a powerful slash and safer.
There was a time when straight bladed katana were fairly common on the battlefield and many samurai actually preferred them. A longer blade with a normal amount of curve was cut shorter which removed around 98% of the curve.
No we have no historical evidence of a straight bladed katana. None. What we have is a double edged straight blade called a Tsurugi.
what you are referring to is when the tachi where shortened and it did not make it straight.
There was a Guillotine Blades experiment video from "Know Art" that found some significant difference between edge shape.
It is related and maybe interesting to test how that applies to swords.
Love your Videos - keep it up
Agreed. That's where I think the "curved blades are better" idea comes from. It's not the arc of the swing, but rather the shear angle.
A single edge blade can be similar to an axe with a thick spine and a long taper to the edge. Vs a double edge where there is less simply because if the sword was mirrored exactly for both sides it would be too heavy so they are much thinner and so the angle of the edge is much more narrow.
Shad: "The fitting on that is dogcrap... If you're interested, we have an affiliate link."
Not really selling it.
Honesty first ^_^
The more I see katanas compared to other swords the more I believe what truly makes the katana have merit is as a self defense weapon. Not a war sword. Not a duel sword. Nor even a back up weapon.
What it is good at is being a reasonable length for carrying day to day. Quick to draw, and being adequate at thrusting and great at slashing.
Funnily enough, these are the exact same qualities that we look for in firearms for every day carry(EDC). There are better guns than pistols for sure, but if you are going to carry something all day every day you pick the one that feels comfortable, that you can draw quickly, and can get the job done adequately.
Which also makes sense, given the katana wasn't the primary weapon of samurai during war...
The uchi katana we know as just a katana was the peacetime EDC sword. In war the much larger tachi was common but for mounted samurai the uchi katana made sense as it could be easily drawn if you ran out of arrows or your naginata broke or was lost.
@@mnandeazy34 Exactly. The katana saw a lot more use AFTER the sengoku period (as I understand it). This makes sense because after Tokugawa won there was relative peace. However, this probably would have been an uneasy peace and samurai would still want to be armed day to day, especially if they were once considered an enemy.
I'm definitely not an expert on Japanese history though, so I wouldn't mind input on this take, it makes a lot of sense to me though.
It would make sense to me that the katana being a great EDC for the time period would then become the symbol of the samurai and be intertwined in the legacy of legendary warriors. After all, post war these samurai were still around, and became more political than martial, but their notoriety would still be remembered from the sengoku period. Whenever you saw these warriors in person you would probably see them wearing a katana and conflate the two together.
Imagine seeing Lancelot in person just walking down the street in the medieval period. He wouldn't be holding a spear or poleaxe, they're too big. You'd probably see him wearing a sword and THAT would be the iconic image in your mind anytime you saw him, regardless of what he used on the battlefield (I know Lancelot wasn't real, but the point stands).
@@brighamfish713 Technically you can also carry slightly longer sword because katana (and its sheat) is curved compared to straight sword.
yeah, hard disagree with that. The wielder determines the effectiveness of the weapon.
A cut on the draw vs. a draw cut would be a correct way to divide the two cuts.
Nice and precise.
Or just call it an iai-slash. Sounds cooler and is still correct
Draw cut being cutting from the sheath, and pull cutting are pretty common terms. That said, japanese swordsmanship encompasses a lot of techniques, and even push cutting is employed, so even "pull cutting" would be a misnomer I suppose. There's specific names for all of these things in Japanese that eliminate confusion among practitioners, but Shad has a really mixed audience, so using terms like Nukitsuke is only going to lose people. It's hard to use general terms accessible to everyone and still be clear.
I mean, I'd just call it quickdraw. Same principle as revolvers really.
or you know, the Japanese word "Iaido" ROFL
There's a whole martial art which is about drawing the sword from the sheath and cutting because most civilian fights are decided within the first ten seconds when noone is wearing armour
At some point I need to learn some iado, yeah
It’s also how most self defense uses with handguns are decided, since you rarely walk around with the gun pre-drawn for moral, legal, and just plain practical reasons. So you have to quickly get that gun out of your holster and into your hand.
The vast majority of self defense uses of handguns don’t even involve rounds being fired, as simply drawing the gun gets the bad guy to back off. But you still need to be able to quickly and efficiently draw that gun for that deterrent to work.
Also the same reason you always carry with a round in the chamber, since even racking the slide takes too much time and effort in such a critical window.
A slash test on a rounded bundle if leather (maybe wrapped around a plastic barrel or bucket) about torso size would be an interesting test to see if the slash between straight or curved shows different cut characteristics.
Here is the usual full support for channel growth.
I can understand your reasons for the dislike of the lotus tsuba. My two questions are 1.Does it protect the hand of the user any better than the standard smooth katana tsuba? 2. Does it have any ability to catch the opponent's blade allowing blade control where the standard tsuba does not?
Hey Shad, your content over years really got me started through studying about history of swords and other weapons around the world. I was wondering if you’d consider doing a video on the Kyū Guntō (old military sword) and Shin Gunto (new military sword). These were the swords used by the Japanese military before and during World War II, and they seem like cool mix of tradition and modernization at least for the time period they largely used in. Plus, they were basically some of the last swords to be used in large scale in war as recently as WW2. I have seen some notable content discuss them, but I would like your opinion on them.
lets not forget with the Iaido (draw cut), youre supposed to rotate your hips away from the sword at the same time as you are drawing to make the draw even faster and obviously rotation works better with a curved sword opposed to a straight one
but id think that this was all formulated AFTER the curve, not "oh this is how we draw out our sword to cut things, lets make a sword that is curved to make it better"
I agree 100% with everything you just said
Just to be clear so that nobody gets confused, iaido is a martial art form that encompasses a lot of things, not a move or technique. Specifically cutting from the draw is known as nuki-tsuke or nuki-uchi depending on what it is that you're trying to do.
@@larquefausse3623 fair enough
Dear friends.. Katana curvature was first introduced with Tachi swords, and were mainly distinguished as cavalry swords. The curvature made it easier to draw cut from horseback, aswell as make the swing cutting more effective. Keep in mind that Tachi were longer than Katana, and so its curvature was bigger. Also, remember about about katana drawing techniques, called Kata, which require drawing saya back etc. All of that makes this cuvature more significant than you think and show in this video.
Altough great material!
14:48 - I like how Shad took the noodle with him in order to hide that failed horizontal cut lol
I think the main reason for the straight design is mainly familiarity. Like Shogo said, many people were practicing with shinai at the time so using a straighter sword translates shinai techniques better than with a curved sword.
I agree with Tyranth; curved katanas are better at being katanas than straight katanas. Also, given context, you're not typically going to be needing a super duper strong thrust in order to effectively assassinate someone in robes.
exactly, hacking down peasants and farmers is efficient using a katana lol
1:53 anyone else watching Shad repeatedly dip his sleeve in the water?
Thats funny 😂 thanks
Everytime I get the notification to say a new video has been uploaded. I get so excited to watch. I love the debates on this video i am liking how unbiased it is. Great video again Shad
I commented on the curve being part of the heat treat before finishing the vid then Shad said it right after. 🤣
That curve is such small angle, i do not expect it to be noticeably better in cutting.
18:00
the thing you are forgetting in your body mechanics is the fact you are swinging from the shoulder.
the shoulder is your pivot point during the cut. (with a single handed draw and cut)
thus every cut is a draw cut, because the swing from your shoulder causes every blade to slice, regardless of blade shape, as you pull it through the target.
a sword is not an axe.
Or the wrist, or the hips, etc. Same idea
One thing ive noticed on straight katanas is it's easier to vibrate than a regular katana. An easy way to see this is by holding the sword and taking your fist and bumping the side of the blade down the length of the sword with it to see how much it vibrates. The cool thing, though, is the sword will have a dead spot where it doesn't vibrate at all, and imo that's the best place to cut with, so it doesn't ring your hands. You can't really do that very well with a curved katana though.
Tyranth saw that edging opening and he took it
the curve makes so much sense to me.. i've used a lot of different kinds of knives in the kitchen, and a round blade feels like it's pushing _itself_ for you. it makes it like a cleaver. Which makes sense for the legends of it chopping up whole people, buuut.. then again, a straight blade has that 'sliding' effect that we've all felt if we accidentally caught our fingers on a straight knife edge and pulled them along. that's also great for cutting deeper... i think it's 'chop vs slice'
Truth be told, the vast majority of japanese swords are more comparable to sabers than cross swords (arming sword, longsword, greatsword). And are more useful on horseback than on your feet. While kenjutsu and other japanese sword arts seen today have existed for centuries, they are more about meditation than military technique. They only somewhat resemble how these swords were used on the battlefield in the Edo period by samurai.
The curve in a kitchen blade is so you can roll the cut on a cutting board. The curve on an odachi is to make the arc of the draw from the sheath easier. Neither curve serves the purpose of reducing the force necessary to cut.
@@RealLifeIronMan well i guess that makes sense but man it feels harder to draw to me.
I don't like telling people I’m a taxidermist, so when they ask, "What do you do for a living?” I reply.
“Oh, you know stuff."
You create 'naturalistic decor'.
Taxidermist doesnt sound like a bad word to me. You r making art from death and make a simulation of life. The interpretation of thing is on other people and their asumptions. Dont let them bother you.
20:34 In defense to the Sakabatō, you're not supposed to draw it with the sharp edge pointing outwards, but towards you, it's an inverse-blade! 😂👊🏼💥...
'Tsuba is a fantasy flower thing', you say? It's clearly a Lotus Flower!
I chuckled when they called them fantasy flowers. Do they think lotus blossoms aren't real? 😅
Another excellent video. My impression from watching your tests is that it may ultimately boil down to the feel of it and one's preference.
Shad finding that longsword is the best katana. Queue next drama in the sword community. lol
I always knew the katana wasn't curved enough for the enhanced slicing but I still prefer the slight curve to straight or more aggressively curved swords.
-Hystorical katanas are made from different grades of steel right? Hard on the edge and soft on the spine I seem to remember. Them being clasically curved could very well be simply due to differential thermal contraction stress when they are quenched after forging.- Edit: note to self; watch the full video before commenting lol. But I was close so thats nice
I've always wanted to get a straight katana of equal quality to one of my curved ones, and see their difference on the target. If I could make a suggestion: cutting pool noodles isn't going to give you enough target resistance to make any comparisons off of. You guys need to be cutting soaked and rolled beach mats, tatami, or even cardboard to put up some better target resistance. Cutting from the draw comparison was a nice illustration of the differences, especially illustrating the angle and such. Nice video.
I think you missed an opportunity to do a reaction to Megatron reacting to shogo.😢
Megatron lol
@turinmormegil7715 i didn’t even catch that autocorrect
@@slurringscot954 what? I thought it was sarcasm lol
9:35 I’d like to see how they compare against something harder and meatier like a pig carcass or a side if beef.
I agree, a more difficult target would make a small difference more visible
Still depends on the wielder and the thing that you want to cut, not all wooden is the same not always you r gonna cut in the same edge aligment. Previous programs use robots and multiple test to have a deterministic result.
I love how there's no bullshit. 👍
i think something that needs to be explored more is cutting against materials that offer more resistance. i could imagine the curved katana being noticably better here, especially for cuts near the tip of the blade, because the blade is angled to more closely align with the target, allowing it to slice along. i would imagine it to be easier to make a slice with the tip and continue the motion of the cut - a straight edge might feel more resistance in that situation.
just to make it clear, the situation i am talking about would be somthing like a vertical/overhead cut downwards, where the tip of the sword slices along the chest of a dummy. I'm not talking about a cut that would get stopped at the shoulders, but one where the motion continues.
Exactly. Hard target cutting is where you're going to see the biggest difference. I've seen demonstrations of straight swords and curved swords on bamboo, and oftentimes the cut is cleaner on the curved one, and the straight sword tends to transmit more shock so you see more breaking and splintering going on. I've always wanted to do the two myself in a side by side to physically feel the difference.
I have heard that isn't needed with short swords, or normal katanas if the swordsman is tall.
In my own testing with training swords, the slight curve of the katana allows you to slip thrusts around certain guards of your opponent without having to significantly reposition yourself to do so. It also makes certain wrapping parries slightly easier. Certainly not an end-all-be-all, but it is important to understand the advantages and disadvantages of any weapon you might be using.
12:44 That cut is amazing. I see why it has a reputation for lethality.
I have no dislike on japanese swords and find them cool. I still never understood why everyone treats the Katana as curved as a Saber in terms of estimation how well it will cut. Sure, there are some that are curvish, but not as much as I would say "This cuts better because of the curve"
I always suspected that the difference between straight and katana-curved, if there were any, would be extremely minimal at best. And more the result of traditions, aesthetics and the making process. Yet another reason not to take all "facts" about weapons for granted.
I was under the impression that back when tachi and katana were made a long time ago that the curve was a result of the quenching process along with the hamon
Oh cool they did bring that up :-)
a curve is best for edge alinement. To me swords with curves were meant as a easy sword to cut with because people did not have to focus on edge alinement in battle; a curved sword basically being a training sword for people that have never fought with a sword.
if you put the blade side down, then let the hilt of the sword roll freely in your hand, the weight of the blade will tell you how a sword will prefer to turn in your hand when cutting tougher targets.
I've watched so many videos, and have this seen so many times, but this is the first time, that it occured to me: Shad probably almost singlehandedly finances the pool noodle industry in his area!
I kinda wonder, what the people running the shops think, when they see Shad walking up to the register with yet another batch of pool noodles.
We buy their entire stock regularly ^_^
I remember people making the same jokes about Paul Harrell (rest in peace) buying the entire stock of large soda bottles at his local store to shoot at on his channel.
Shad is comparing videos with fellow sword channels and that is always good.
I love how shad has to slam dunk the katana in the sheath every time. 😂
Another minimal difference (as many differences seem to be in this video) is that the tip of the straight katana would be a bit faster while cutting because of its straightness and therefore it would feel slightly "longer" for the same amount of material.
Im actually more on shad's point of view, the only benefit i saw worth mentioning was the draw cut, and i don't really care about the draw cuts since i hardly ever attempt them or probably would
18:00 this might be my favourite shad moment ever lmao I love his face lmao, knew exactly what he was thinking.
The curve of a "normal" katana is a byproduct of the traditional Japanese forging process, not as a specific created shape. The curve was introduced in the traditional forging process from the use of clay to edge harden during a full heat + quench. The clay keeping the core and spine of the blade tempered and soft, but allowing the edge to harden is what also introduces the curve. You mention this, but that quench is what warps the blade into curving upwards.
A straight blade goes into the quench, the curved blade comes out. If the curve was introduced in the forging process for a functional reason, smiths would have made a point to aim for a specific curve.
Imo, it's not just a byproduct. Swords during and before the heian period used to be straight. In my interpretation the curve introduced on the tachi was intentional due to how they were used on horseback in those periods, but later the curve never fully went away during the transition to uchigatana as
1) it maybe became a cultural standard for swords to have a curve,
2) the smithing method was established for tachis and carried over to the uchigatana and
3) curve does make the sword easier to draw for iai, which would've been the main usecase for an uchigatana outside of being a status symbol.
You can see the counter evolution in the curve as we get further away from tachis and mounted swordsmanship; katanas get shorter and less curved all the way until the Meiji period where you again see straight blades on some police swords.
This is speculation based on my own experience in iaido and kobudo.
@@Tunturisorsa It is a byproduct, though. In the same way that many of the resources and materials that we use today are really just byproducts of refining oil. The curve in the blade is introduced in the quench, not the hammer or grinding phase.
One thing to keep in mind when it comes to Japanese smithing is their isolationist foreign policy meant that they were limited to their very poor domestic iron and steel production. That's why classical historical Japanese blades had so many folds upon folds, it was an attempt to homogenize the metal.
You bring up the Meiji period, and all I have to do is point you to the fact that Japan was able to start upgrading their metalworking via foreign knowledge and materials. The straight blades of the Meiji period are due to the fact that the better European steel making its way onto shore didn't require the differential hardening as much. The entire point of the differential hardening via clay that creates the curve in the metal is to have a hard edge, but attempt to keep the core and spine less brittle. The new imported metalworking techniques and materials were inherently less brittle after quench than the domestic Japanese steel, hence why differential hardening wasn't as common across Europe.
@@ShaggyRogers1 Heian period quite early Japan used straight blades similar to the Chinese Jian. Not the Meiji period. The curve came in with tachis and I agree likely due to horseback combat even though the Yari was likely the main weapon. The curve stayed with katana and could be due to tradition or they liked the design or it could also have been a byproduct of newer forging techniques possibly a mixture of all of it. You've got to remember a katana that has a soft back hard edge will likely curve in quenching, but that's one design other designs had a soft core but an entire outer coating of hard steel and the differential hardness is from outside to inside these would have been forged curved and didn't curve during the quench and there was a large variety of different differentials some were medium on the sides soft back and core and only a hard edge
The thing is they did later on because there are many different swords, a friend of mine has a near straight sword and mine from an earlier period is very curved so they must’ve known what to do to get how much curvature
@@hismajestylordsmenkhare5878 I'm not the one that tried to bring up straight blades in the Meiji period, don't aim that comment at me.
My source for all of this are the traditional Japanese smiths themselves. The blade goes into the quench straight, and it comes out curved. The purpose of the quench and the clay that causes the curve has nothing to do with shape, and everything to do with the innate structural integrity of the metal.
This is a well documented technique. The curve might be a happy byproduct, but it is a byproduct of their quenching method. Without the clay to differentially heat treat the blade, the blade would come out in the same form it went in just like a European blade.
Really makes you think. Thanks for making this video.
Well, a curved blade should have better drawing cut capabilities when doing a circular motion, since the straight one will roll over a bigger area, meaning it wont cut as deep. It will be reversed when doing a straight motion, since the curved one will roll over a bigger area. Think of the extremes, in essence its like a saw vs a circular saw. The saw will cut deeper when going straight, while the circular saw will cut deeper when going in a circle.
That's why Tawars and shamshirs are such beastly cutters, but the katana ain't curved enough. The difference is as then figured out here, in a cut in the initial draw.
Fun discussion! I've heard the term "slice" to refer to a pull or push cut, which is a useful distinction as opposed to "draw cut."
I’d argue that slashing foam and cutting through meat aren’t quite the same.
I’d be curious to see how they perform on an actual carcass.
Plastic foam is more uniform and shows small differences in cutting better. Meat is very soft, it flexes in 3 dimensions and it has varying degrees of density/toughness. Trying to determine subtle differences in cutting would be more difficult with meat.
If the purpose of the test is purely testing lethality, transparent body doubles are better than meat because you can see internal damage such as ruptured organs or broken bones without having to do an autopsy.
Meat (with bones) is better for testing something less subtle, like seeing if you could chop a pig in half to test whether you could chop a foe in half.
I like this, great video and love the information 👍
It seems to me that the cutting ratio would change a lot more on a bigger target. Especially a flat, torso-sized target. A pool noodle doesn’t have enough surface area for the curve to make any difference. Try slashing at a flat surface, and see which sword cuts deeper. That being said, I do agree that the curve in the katana probably isn’t enough to do much.
One advantage for the curve : it protects your hands in sparring, because your knuckles end up being further "behind" the blade. I haven't tried this with katana, but I have noticed the difference comparing sabers to straight swords.
Another small advantage that I found was the curved katana has a slight auto angle correction due to its center of gravity being moved back, so for someone a lil more unexperienced the curve could slightly help feel that straight angle.
Damn now I need to see a video of drawcuts but with longswords
I've written an essay about this, comparing sabers, with much deeper curves, to straight swords. My ultimate conclusion is that on foot, the curve barly affects cutting capacity. When mounted on a fast horse that can take tight turns, the curve offers greater protection. If you are on a larger horse that needs more space to turn, they were instructed to protect themselves by presenting the point, giving the horse the space it needs to turn.
unexpectedly informative video. Interesting conclusions about "draw cuts"
LOL a side Shabbard would solve that draw cut issue differences, hehe.
Don't know why this myth is so often said, especially when you see how impressive some straight bladed European swords can cut. However, pool noodles isn't the best testing medium to compare. I think it would be more interesting to compare with a thick tatami mat maybe with a bamboo core as well. It will be a harder target to cut through and give better comparison when a target is not as easy to get through all the way.
If you watched ALL of Shad's content then you would understand why they use Pool Noodles.
@@morrigankasa570 @morrigankasa570 I have and understand that it is harder to get tatami mats shipped to Australia, however my point still stands, that you cannot tell the limitations of one of these swords compared to the other only using a pool noodle. Although as a JSA student and someone who also has a Hema background, I already know there isn't a big difference between curved and straight blades. But if you want to paint a picture to people, you should use a testing medium that will push the limits more on which each sword is capable of. Pool Noodles and Water bottles only require a sharp enough blade with good edge alignment, and in the case of pool noodles, sufficient cutting speed to avoid the noodle flopping on impact. The sword doesn't need to be a competition level cutter to get through those kinds of targets. Again, I am sure both swords can still get through some thick tatami without issue, but it would be more interesting to compare the two with that kind of cutting medium to drive the point home. If that isn't available than maybe another cutting medium that can add some extra resistance. For most casual people watching this video they won't really be thinking about all of this though, so its not hugely important for the general audience.
Lotta talk about "tip" in this video talking about whether something being straight is better or not. Auspicious.
I do really love ALL Shadiversity videos!!!! ❤
I think you've solved it. The fastest backup sword perfectly fits its niche. One extra arrow, or life & death with a yari design and practice, focus on quickdraw iaijutsu of samurai, its the only advantage it needs.
Not forgetting it may still get caught less when used on horseback like a sabre*
Shout out to Bushido Blade, lol
so we conclude: Shad and Tyranth think the straight sword is better at thrusting than the gay sword.
I call bs on that. The sexual orientation of the sword has nothing to do with how well it thrusts. It's all in how you use it. [may contain stupid humor, not to be taken seriously]
Now yall need to make a slightly curved long sword and do the same tests
You mean a kriegsmesser or falchion? They have done that already
@@Xirque666not the same at all, neither of those shitty ass swords are double edged
No! Make it double edged though 🤔
A double edged falchion sounds weird, but i wonder how a curve would affect the false edge cuts, idk just a thought.
awesome tests Shad,i love that sekiro straight katana,you should do more game swords tests and comparisons to real swords
I am glad they also mentioned the Metatron video.
I imagine there's a lot of culturally ingrained "knowledge" that is generally accepted because it's from a generally correct and athoritative source.
As to why this particular one is common, I have a thought, but it's only supposition, no way for me to validate:
The curve was originally an unintended artifact of the differential hardening (it so I understand), though it's later intentional for the form and appearance. I think maybe it's originally an ancient 'bug not feature' your thing.
As I said, it's pure supposition, but it seems to fit the circumstances.
Though I can see that some would be offended, that is not the intent.
I almost see it as something told by the smith to sometime who asked, bit didn't want to explain is from the hardening, but spread, and smiths laufhed to each other but didn't correct.
I've vaguely remembered similar origins of a common misconception, I cannot remember which at this moment.
The difference in drawing the sword from the sheath is fascinating. (Especially the straight 'katana')
I loved this video.
Discussions of functionality is always fun.
11:40 my understanding is that the Japanese word "iai" as in the art iaido means drawing the sword from the scabbard and cutting in the same motion. So you could use that to differentiate in the future.
9:31 Not to argue but the pool noodle test isn't really demonstrating slashing it's just cutting and anything that is sharp will cut. Besides he said the katana would be better at it not that a "ninjato" couldn't slash.
... you can easily calculate how much difference the slight curve of the katana makes. We are talking about a couple of 1/100 millimetres in arc length/cutting ratio. A scimitar is a different matter.
I keep having this thought about a way to test the claims about curved swords helping with edge alignment.
My hypothesis is that it is not the curve that helps with edge alignment, but rather the fact that the blade is behind the "force line" that you mentioned when talking about thrusts.
So the idea is that Tyranth could modify 3 swords. 2 straight, 1 curved: First, give them round handles to make any help with edge alignment extra noticeable. Second, tilt one of the straight blades back from the handle, so that it roughly coincides with the curved sword when held in the hand. Then test all 3 swords on rows of pool noodles or something else that needs good edge alignment. If I'm right, the curved sword and tilted straight sword should perform equally well, and they would both perform better than the normal straight sword.
19:42 ah yes, feel the tip.
And the curved tip is better for thrusts under certain circumstances, because the tip is offest from the rest of the blade. It's deceptive, because it means that the tip gets there faster, at least on an upward thrust, into the neck or armpit, for example.
Curved swords of course do offer benefits at cutting softer targets, otherwise they wouldn't exist all over the world in multiple cultures, time periods and locations.
It depends on how much of a curve it has. if it is only slightly curved, well, you can see the results in this video.
Yes, but from what I remember from a video that Matt did quite a while ago you need a far more aggressive curve than what we see with katanas in order to realize that effect. Think pulwar style of blade, which looks almost silly.
The curve of the katana is a byproduct of the hardening process and not a deliberate effort to create a blade that's better at cutting soft targets. And mind you, swords are bad at cutting or stabbing hard targets anyway, so it's kind of redundant as all swords are meant for use against soft targets primarily, with a few exceptions.
Thevslight curve a katana has, have absolutely no influence. I would actually say that a broad European sword with a good profile taper is better just because the angle of attack.
there is a lot of stuff all over the world that just exists because people like how it looks or because that is how it was always done, or tradition...
it does not show that it has any benefits...
@@FelixEnder Not when it comes to weapons used in combat which is a life and death matter and also tied with economics, experimental or ceremonial weapons are a tiny exception of that rule which doesn't apply to curved swords.
Today I learned that Shad knew what edging is. Well done, Oz.
In combat, those 10 degrees during Iai can mean the difference between life and death. There is a historical trend for the katana being more curved during wartime, and being straighter during peacetime. There is significant documentation that during impromptu duels between samurai and "ninja" where the "ninja would carry wakizashi in katana saya so they could have the speed advantage at that first strike. The curve of the katana is a trend design for a specific tactical advantage. Katana are outstanding weapons either way (when well made) whether straight or curved.
My personal preference is for straight blades, as that fits my fighting style better than a curved blade of any type.
Okay. Im here. Im watching. But i really enjoy the look of a straight katana vs a curved one
Take note: Shad is willing to accept reality @5:21 😆 (just razzin' ya, mate)
I think something more interesting to note would be wear patterns. Imagine slicing a flat stone: a flat blade would wear more at the tip whereas a curved would have more evenly distributed wear. Theres a million implications from that alone, but practically it might make a curved blade more long lived/less frequent maintenance
19:10 Katana's also have a notable advantage on longswords when it comes to draw cuts with their relatively short length, less length is less blade you have to pull out before you can cut
When you put bastard swords into the mix, or an arming sword, then your point is lost...
Yeah your point is not the best, considering (like stated above) there is alot of Europeans swords smaller then a longsword or broadsword (both different lengths on average) and those same sword existed before the katana.
Gladius or Spatha or "Viking Swords"!
The idea that ninja would have a special sword is one of the most ridiculous thing ever. It would be like a spy open carrying a gun that only CIA members have.
You should try to test the difference in draw cuts with the saya/shealth being held in the belt instead of just holding the shealth with your offhand while drawing, you will feel the curve indeed make a difference. As a point of historical accuracy, people drew katanas from their waist belt NOT from the saya held in another hand.
interesting video! Thanks for making it
Curved. I would like to learn to do that amazing drawcut.