Long enough to go right through the body of any aggressor, sticking out of the back so long that you are able to hang 5 Pretzels on the blade. This is an old south German advice how long a knife should be. The ammount of Pretzels differs between five and seven.
*How to pronounce Bowie* Use an "oh" sound when your disappointed by one. An "oo" sound when your impressed by one. And, an "ow" sound when your injured by one... |:)
Yeah, honestly I don't think it matters. Who was alive then, that is still alive now, and remembers off hand how to say the name. I've heard it said each way by different people. There was even this french woman I knew some time back who called it Boiw-eh'.
@Oinche Pendejo As I have read it in a few places; Bowie is a Scottish name. And, Supposedly central Texans pronounce it with an 'oo' sound (as in doom) under the idea that this is how the Scottish pronounce the name. One brief article I read Said that it may have been confused by David Jones changing his last name to Bowie (which he did so as not to be confused with the lead singer of the Monkeys). But, I still like my contextual method of pronunciation better :P
***** Does what matter? How to pronounce it? What derivation the name has? How David Bowie Pronounces his name? You addressed all of these things your self. It obviously mattered when you were talking about it. Now it suddenly might not matter? And, this being coincidental with the accuracy of the information you provided being called into question?
This theory is actually supported by early court cases concerning the Second Amendment. Bliss v. Commonwealth (Kentucky) in 1822, though dealt with a gentleman using a sword cane, was passed for the number of people carrying large knives concealed. The opinion of the court states "The act provides, that any person in this commonwealth, who shall hereafter wear a pocket pistol, dirk, large knife, or sword in a cane, concealed as a weapon, unless when traveling on a journey, shall be fined in any sum not less than $100; which may be recovered in any court having jurisdiction of like sums, by action of debt, or on presentment of a grand jury." The case of Aymette v. State (Tennessee) in 1840 specifically mentions Bowie Knives, as Aymette was indicted on a Tennessee law, the case stated that Aymette "did wear a certain bowie knife under his clothes, and keep the same concealed about his person, contrary to the form of the statute." A very good theory that does have some evidence to support it. Bliss v. Commonwealth, 12 Ky. (2 Litt.) 90, 13 Am. Dec. 251 (1822). Aymette v. State, 21 Tenn. (2 Hump.) 154 (1840).
As to length of blade from a utilitarian perspective. The Bowie knife is a magnificient tool as well as a weapon. However, I know from my use of sapmi knives against frozen wood, fish fileting and small game that there is a max length for a knife to be used for skinning/fileting or as a hachette against wood, and especially smaller bush w higher concentrations of rezin. (Thusly good for making a fire in a cold environ). Additionally you can wighdraw and stab much quicker with a shorter blade. (Something one can see easily by watching usrangers basic knife practice). It is a fair trade off, and a modern screamsax in my opinion. Btw thanx for the vids!
A lot of the American made ones (of the period) were often made out of old rasps by blacksmiths so this would also dictate size.The original bull killer that the Bowie was based on was a Spanish knife with a more curved Moorish type blade where the false edge went back almost to the hilt.
Interesting, I havent heard that theory before :) That would make sense, but I'm sure weight and practicality figured in as well. Most of the time you would not be using it for combat but for other tasks so a knife bigger than your example would be quite cumbersome ("firepower vs mobility" and all that). Most likely it was a combination of many factors though.
More than a theory. ANY travel to ANY Central American sub-urban, rural or jungle area will find "many to most" men carrying machetes. Sheathed, or even "bare blade", hang from lanyards strung so the tool (used for grass cutting) are dangling under the armpit.
Quite right, and also so that it didn't protrude when a carrier sat down. I appreciate your insight and depth of knowledge you possess which must have taken many years of dedication and devotion to compile and document. Thank you.
Soldiers are often wearing bowie knives and bajonets/daggers in the manner Matt showed in the video. Only outside of their tactical vests. It is practical for getting in and out of vehicles and when kneeling and it is easy to reach under the right armpit while grapling with the left arm in a left foot forward defensive pose.
Matt: Good video as usual. This is a topic I've been researching myself for the last year or so in so far as I've started training in classical methods of using "big steel". As far as the carry method I think far more common was in the belt or waistband with a "frog" on the sheath. I have several Bowies which are set up this way. Search Bill Bagwell and Panther Concealment with Bowie on UA-cam for more about this method of carry. I also have a 10" Bowie which I had a leather shoulder rig built for but the frog sheath is simply much more comfortable and practical.
ive been to james blacks forging shop where he made the first bowie knife its located outside of hope, Arkansas in the washington state park, ive actually taken classes in the use and concealing of bowies i believe that anyone taking a hit from one will bleed to death or lose body parts from hits, when you line the knife up it is impossible to see the backcut coming so you cannt avoid taking the hit
there is a great book on bowie knives, that you must get. Norm Flayderman's book. There is a lot of contemporary source material re: correspondence and newspaper clippings from the day. He does the best job I have ever seen of the Wostenholm (my favorite) workshop from Sheffield. You would love this if you don't have it. Yes, in studying and also talking to archaeologist friends, most were frame handle from the Sheffield workshops. It allows for easy additions.
I like the looks of the one in the video. Very nice. I recently bought the Condor Undertaker Bowie. Pretty much the sweet spot for size and weight. The comment regarding the ability to draw the knife quickly makes alot of sense to me. If it were used for self defence, I would think that the ability to draw it quickly was a must. Drawing a fifteen inch knife with average length arms may be problematic to do quickly while under the preasure of imminent attack.
Not what I was thinking when you posed the question although not saying I disagree. My thought is that is the max length that the knife can be used when grappling. You need to be able to apply the point when grappled and a too long weapon will not be maneuverable enough. Your last line of defense weapon has to work at that range. I agree with the other posters that as a tool it loses at lot when it gets to be machete length.
Matt, the age of the Bowie knife as a primary backup weapon was probably no more than 40 years, from the 1820's to the Civil War when mass produced repeating handguns became widely available. After that is when you really start seeing the "hunting" bowies, "cowboy" bowies and the very fancy "mens jewelry" mid sized bowies like the knives made in San Fransisco by folks like Michael Price and Will & Finck. There were small concealable VERy fancy "dirks" and such made early on for gents by guys like Samuel Bell, but some of the finest knives of that period like ones made by Daniel Searles, Henry Shiveley, Samuel Bell etc. were quite large. If you look at a Bell dirk and a Bell Bowie, they ar the same design, just very different in size. There has been a fair bit of study lately and some theorize that the bowie fighting techniques were pretty much adapted from existing 18th and 19th Century WMA techniques like French, Spanish and English fencing and Scottish saber techniques. The Scots are where some speculate that "back cut" technique using the clip point came from.
When I was in my early 20s, I carried a Bowie knife pretty much everywhere! it was always interesting to see the reaction of people when they saw it. it is a awesome weapon
There's also another reason Bowie knives are utility/hunting knives, not just weapons. If you try to do any fine work with a sword you'd find it's not exactly easy. So if you were to skin a buffalo with something the size of a saber you'd probably opt for a better knife.
Knifes of that size are usually more bill-like in they operations. Lapland Leuku is one example of such, heavy long blade used for hacking firewoods, preparing poles for tent, hacking fronzen body of reindeer for meat or other things like that (we used to dig pitchy stumps from ground in army with it :) ). They carried and still carry small knife along with it for more precise stuff, preparing foods, carve splinters to start fire, carving campcocks etc. Both Leuku and smaller Puukko are carried in same sheath, which is pretty priceless combination. So Buwie of that size is not utility knife as much as hacking tool. I'd be surprised if someone living out the land would not carry smaller knife along with his Buuwie. And Buuwies design really doesn't seem to be utility knife.
I agree with your theory about size being the limiting factor. Larger knives (Civil War) probably didn't have concealment in mind. I'd rather just have a gladius at that point. If I had to conceal a knife I'd rather use a ka-bar - not an option for much of history lol
I think the luxury Bowie's crafted by artists often with silver were carried by rich or upper class people under theyr jacket and so are relativeled small sized . They were rarely used and are so preserved in pristine condition . The plainer,cheaper ,often bigger bowie's ( around 12" or more) carried for hunting- bushcraft --utility-deffence were used and overused for many years then recicled or throw away so few are left. James Bowie gived his name to a sort of knife that existed before him since the early middle age (north european seax) and had continued to evolved until the end of the 19th century.
I'm glad you're not obsessing too much about how to pronounce it. Where I live--in the Ohio River valley, you'll hear both pronunciations as we have northerners and southerners in equal proportions around here. They're quite common and some people still carry them concealed. Of course, the practice is frowned upon in the hospitals that I work with ;-)
A lot of times they would just stick them down through their belt they didn't have a retention strap because they just had the little that stuck out to keep it from sliding all the way down
I have and swear by my Bowie Knife, you maybe right about the pit to hip length thing but I always wear it on my hip with it tied down to my thigh, which is also a great place where the length does not get in the way and is also hidden by a great coat or duster.
Interesting video, Although there was some variety in the size of some of the historic Bowies which date all the way back to when James Bowie was alive such as 'Bowie No 1' (20 overall inches) and the Musso Bowie (19 overall inches) on display at the Arkansas History museum both of which date from the 1830's and are monster sized Bowie knives as well as some others. The UA-cam video (Bowie Knife 1820-1870) gives an interesting display of various Bowies from this era and their history.
13BRAVO REDLEG I have yet to purchase or acquire the “ D “ guard model . I’m on another mission now . ( hope you come over to Subscribe and check out my collection). Thanh’s 🤠
I want one of those. Both an antique as a display piece and a form of hard asset to pass down to my future kids, and a practical reproduction in case I want to do some tatami cutting.
As someone that regularly carries a bowie concealed, I can say that yes Matt you are correct, but not because it becomes too hard to conceal, it's because if you sit and the point of the sheathe is below your hip, it hits whatever you've sat on. Which, if the bowie is too long, will jam up into your arm pit. And yes, I've had it happen, and no, it does not feel good at all. Quite painful in fact.
You're probably essentially correct on the blade length issue. Bowie knives, however, were never used as utility or hunting knives. They were strictly fighting knives. A frontiersman carrying a large fighting knife would have carried at least one other (and possibly two or three) smaller knives for gutting and skinning animals, eating, and various other chores. "Bowie knives" and earlier large fighting knives were, and still are, far too clumsy for general camp and trail utility use. Instead, in the days of single-shot muzzle loading firearms, such large knives were the backup weapons that never ran out of ammunition.
Since Jim Bowie died in 1836 at the Alamo and his knife fame came from the 1820's in Louisiana, mostly from the Sandbar Fight (which he didn't start - he was observing a duel - and only participated in after he was attacked) you need to revise your comments about when and where it was commonly worn. Now American men still commonly carry knives. I have three on me right now. Predominantly they are used as tools. I have carried a smaller Bowie knife on occasion for self protection. The penalties are far fewer than carrying aconcealed firearm in my atate, though like most I've done that too on several occasions. The full size Bowie knives started being phased out post-Civil War as repeating cartridge pistols became common. Also as magazine fed cartridge rifles became common too. The ability to have many shots, along with the ease of reloading and carrying sufficient amounts of amnunition, made full scale knife fighting relatively rare. Wars always being the Bowie back into popularity. I'm just old enough to remember much older boys getting presentation Bowies, often custom made and paid for by a group of relatives and friends, given as a gift before someone went off to Vietnam. The Randall knives of that period are collector's items. It's been revived since the First Gulf War. The classic Bowie was 9-1/2 inches long and 1-1/2 inches wide at the hilt. There is always a sharp false edge and point. That's on the large end of practical for a hunting; fighting and utility knife. It wouldn't be too heavy for everyday carry with a sturdy belt and/or suspenders. It could also be carried in a deep pocket or a sash. As could a pistol.
N Arries yes most seem to be carried openly. It has a deterrent effect when carried openly and is more comfortable. Unlike the UK we have a long standing weapons culture here. You can carry a sword, spear, and Bowie of any size u wish in Texas and Louisiana.
@@deannorris5662 Open carry wasn't for a deterrent. It was because it was required by law in many places especially the south. If you look at period articles people thought only criminals carried concealed because they were hiding something. Places like California and some States in the south(some have changed recently) still require open carry of large knives from 5 to sword inches long because they are seen as weapons.
Also sparring with them is really fun and I have worked with tomahawk and Bowie knife sparring and it's a really unique experience. It's really hard to find decent tomahawk techniques and Native American martial arts is very limited.
What was the book title you were reading that mentioned wearing them high like that? I’m from the Kentucky area and that IS an old tradition among Appalachian folks when toting a Bowie knife. Would REALLY like to read the text that mentions it!!!
It is interesting to discuss and sport theories as to how bowies were carried in the 19th century. What might be considered actually factual, would be photos with matching pedigree, provenance, and stories about whom might be wearing them.
As someone who has carried a Bowie knife that way, I suspect you're correct. Some Bowie knives are longer. I've seen quite a few around fourteen inches, and a fair number out to sixteen inches. I think this is because there were huge regions of America where there were no rules at all, and very little law. Often no law, and no place for hundreds of miles where you couldn't carry whatever you wanted to carry. I've seen shoulder rigs for these longer knives where the knife was carried perpendicular to the body, and others where the knife was carried on the side, canted like a long sword, and pulled with a cross draw. Handguns were carried in similar fashion where large handguns were carried opening on the plains and the wilderness, and even in many boomtowns, but pocket guns were carried where handguns were either frowned upon, or were actually illegal within city limits.
Yup Huge Fricken Knife. Used to be a Bowie fan boy and have owned my share but tastes change and lets face it it's all about taste, you could definitely have an argument on which knife is better Bowie v Tanto style and ad nauseam. For me now it's about the quality of the steel and how it holds an edge and if its right for the task rather than just aesthetics. Anywho that's a huge fricken knife.
That's a shoulder holster position. It's not a "concealed carry position." Shoulder holsters just so happen to be easily covered by jackets (the buttons, folds, and opening were all designed to enable weapon access), but they are "open carry" holsters. Some designs have jacketed/concealed wear more in mind than others, like Galco's Miami FBI Classic 2. It's even black, most holsters are made of handsome leather to look flashy, not a concealment trait. A true "concealed carry" position is on the belt at the 4 o clock position worn in an inside the waistband (IWB) holster and covered by a shirt and perhaps a jacket. That position and mode of carry is designed to hide the pistol with minimal clothing and keep it retained at the expense of comfort and rapid access and has little applicability elsewhere. And outside the waistband holster (OWB) would be much more practical, could still be slightly concealed by a shirt and or jacket, but is much more comfortable and easier access while only being only slightly more exposed to hostile grab attempts. A duty holster on a duty belt (cowboy style) like modern police wear is the most comfortable, most rapid access, least concealed and most vulnerable to being taken away. I can wear my shoulder holster hunting, hiking, at home, or out to a fancy dinner (and I do!). Carrying IWB at 4 o clock under a shirt is not a great way to hike or hunt; its for fancy dinner, your day job, or covert work. OWB is how you hike, hunt, and do uniformed duty. It sure would be nice if the only people I had to hide my guns from were bad guys...
I think is a rule we could basically say that the larger Bowie knives exist in places where men wore them on their pistol belt exposed. Even things like the muso buoy make a lot more sense in the context of using it during warfare, Or in places where everybody went about armed.
Interesting info, and I'm guessing your theory is correct. Something to note about concealed carry in America: Shoulder holsters used to be a common way to carry by detectives, and once civilian concealed carry became more common, many simply took the cue from existing shoulder rigs that cops used and started using them in civilian contexts. However, these days shoulder carry has fallen out of favor in America due to changes in common clothing and advances in training methods. Nowadays concealed pistols are almost always carried on the belt in some form, either inside or outside the waistband. Nowadays wearing jackets all the time is far less common, so you can't get away with a shoulder rig, which is only concealed until you take off your jacket. Most people carry on the belt with the pistol inside the waistband, which allows you to conceal the pistol under just a slightly loose shirt (usually untucked, but there are deep-concealment 'tuckable' holsters for tucked in shirts). It's less socially acceptable to keep your jacket on indoors these days, so your pistol has to go under something that you CAN legitimately keep on without being rude or causing people to ask questions. The second reason is training and safety. When drawing from a belt holster with the barrel pointed down, the draw motion keeps the pistol pointed down at the ground until you rotate it up towards you target and extend your arms outward. With a cross-body shoulder rig, you 'sweep' your muzzle across a 180 degree horizontal arc to the side, and the weapon is pointed at your arm, and sweeping any other person standing to the side. This is both a slower draw stroke and is less safe, as it is distinctly possible that when drawing under stress you may accidentally snatch the trigger, and if you do that at just the wrong moment you could shoot yourself in the arm or shoot your friend next to you. Just some notes on the evolution of gear and training. It's cool to try and think about changes in modern techniques like you examine the historical contexts of things like 19th century bowie knives. Cool mental exercise! :D
This is a perfectly reasonable inference, just as long as one remembers that it's not the *only* factor influencing knife size. Other points made in these comments, such as length's effect on practical usage as a camp tool, are also valid. This hypothesis also explains the seemingly contradictory fact of the giant, Civil War Bowies that you mention, because conditions of open warfare do NOT require concealment, allowing for the carry of larger weapons. (This was especially true on horseback, with some cavalry troops discarding sabers for large knives.) On the other hand, I'd like to point out that this is not the only way knives were carried: comments attributed to Wyatt Earp and other sources, plus pictorial evidence, make note of Bowies being carried behind the hip, at the side on the belt, and even around the neck (these presumably being smaller ones).
His name would have been pronounced both ways depending on where he was at the time. The knife design has evolved over the years and few resemble the original description. today it is more of a wide bladed riflemans knife. Actually that design happened by the time of the American Civil War. Many even looking at pictures mistake the rifleman knife for a Bowie. Shively/Perkins Bowie is the closest to the original. www.tamu.edu/faculty/ccbn/dewitt/adp/history/bios/bowie/knife_like_bowies.html has great information. The Bowie was made as a fighting knife. Rezin gave it to his brother so he would never be unarmed.
The Bowie family, though James was born upriver in Tennessee, was from Louisiana and of French descent. Bowie himself spoke English; French and Spanish as native languages. His wife and the relatives he lived with all spoke Spanish. The correct pronunciation is "BOO-E" as anyone from Louisiana or East Texas would be happy to teach you. Forcefully if necessary.
The clip point was a Western style, meant for fighting and utility. The Midwest “frontier” bowie had a sweeping drop point, and a belly for chopping. You’ll see a perfect example in the horror movie Wolf Creek.
I'm going to dig into my books incase there's something. But I thought they were also often forged from Farrier rasps and as a Smith you can only draw steel out so far without welding on more
One thing that bears remembering, and may have already been mentioned, is that Jim Bowie lived in early 19th Century Mississippi and Louisiana, and was a gambler. As a gambler, having a dedicated fighting knife is a pretty good idea in case a disagreement regarding money turns ugly, but beyond the obvious concerns of whether you can carry a weapon (and though Bowie knives make excellent tool knives, it WAS designed specifically for knife-fighting), there's another major benefit of concealment: surprise. By having a concealed weapon, your opponent, or potential opponent, is unaware of where you carry your weapon, even if they suspect that you are, in fact, armed. That's not something to be ignored. Plus, gamblers don't just get into fights in self-defense or in the course of arguments. Sometimes the person with a concealed weapon is the "bad guy", and might well be intending to ambush a person. Finally, concealing a weapon potentially avoids instigating or escalating an argument, just as openly carrying a weapon can potentially deter a fight. All of these things are important to remember when thinking about the design of anything, not just the specific case of Bowie knives. P.S. - Large Civil War-era type Bowie knives, often with knuckle bows, such as those carried by some Confederate soldiers were different largely because they were intended for a context of open warfare, where concealment is much less useful, and a large knife or small machete, with a guard for protecting the hand (which often doubled as a sort of bronze knuckle) has very real advantages over a civilian-type knife.
Check the length of wing chun butterfly swords, size depends on the size between elbow and wrist of each person, that is the correct information, but us always you carry or fight with whatever is easiest to find.
Most larger 12+in.,Bowies were worn to the side, however most Bowies were not massive knives and simply were carried tucked in the waistband of trousers.
Cross-draw holsters that hang under your armpit are not especially popular due to the difficulty in re-holstering the pistol, which requires you to secure a fastener of some kind. Also, when you draw a pistol from a holster like this, you sweep a large, potentially unsafe area with the barrel of the weapon. They are almost never allowed at public firearms ranges for this reason.
I'm not sure how accurate of an account wikipedia presents on the sandbar fight, but it is a really interesting description. The fight shows how oddly things can turn out when early period weapons are involved. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandbar_Fight
"bowie knife" was a pretty widely used term throughout the 19th century in america .. it was even used sometimes to describe folding knives .. the idea that it is a large clip point knife with a double guard was something that evolved in the 20th century .. the fact is that nobody even knows for sure what the knife looked like that Bowie carried .. it would have to be something that looked like it would be good for combat or fighting , thats about it ..
the majority of Bowie knives are actually worn on the belt or through sash. the sheath would actually have a frog on it to hold it in place. watch Lynn Thompson in his videos talking about the Nachez bowie Bill bagwells videos and writings on them
I do bushcraft and camping and I use to carry big knives but i think carring a knife in that way could be dangerous, because of if you fall you could broke your ribs
In the 1800's northerners complained about the overt "knife flourishing" of southern college students. Of course prominent display was common on the American South, particularly after Jim Bowie was estate as a frontier legend. Look at the photographs and tintypes of new southern recruits for the American Civil War. Public display was the point. Frances Trollope describes the environment amusingly in the 1832 travel diary Domestic Manners of the Americans, if you want a European perspective.
I can believe that. Surely, not everybody who lived back then was a total Clint Eastwood in a fight. However, I’ll bet a whole lot of people were skinning game, carving wood, trimming fishing line, slicing bread, chopping vegetables, opening envelopes, or opening tins of food.
I would like to do a Scheffield version with the half horse , half alligator. Doing a lot of research. Appreciate the video. I was figuring on from hip to knee so if I was carrying it on my hip, if I took a knee, the point would not touch the ground.
Love these videos Matt, the bowie is by far my favorite personal defense weapon of any time period, and the legendary name that with which it got its never ceases to amaze me. I am some what of a knife smith, I'm no brilliant craftsman as of yet, only maybe half a year under my belt, and the next personal project I intend to undertake is a bowie knife made as traditionally as I can get it, and I was wondering if you had any resources you could reccomend that might help in my quest to make myself both a bowie as you were holding there, and an arkansas toothpick, the knife that become synonymous with dueling? either way, thanks for the information Matt, take care.
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I was thinking it might be thigh length that was the limiter. Anything longer than your thigh will get in the way while you do manual labour. You don't wear a sword while labouring, you do wear a knife while labouring. I suspect that is the difference.
How do you, as a Texan, say the name Bowie? Does it rhyme with Louie, or snowy? Or do you say it differently depending on if you are talking about the Alamo hero, or the British rock star? According to a dialect survey from Joshua Katz’s North Carolina State University, Texans are among the only Americans to still rhyme Bowie with gooey, though the portion of us who do appears to be shrinking as Ziggy Stardust’s fame eclipses that of Texas’s own James. It's called a Boo-ie knife. What do British pristine in calling it a Bow-ie knife? If get David Bowie was important to you but it still doesn't change the historicity of the proper Surname of Bowie belonging to the famous Jim Bowie. Plenty of historical references to the proper pronunciation to the name. Laziness is all I can attribute this to.
The commercially sold clip-blade knife is "Bowie" like the old glam-boy. The dead Alamo hero is "Boo-ie", ultimately derived from the Welsh & Gaelic pronunciation of "w' as literal "double-u". Fun fact: Bowies and other fighting knives of a similar size as shown were legally prohibited from concealed carry under a coat or jacket as you have demonstrated in many states prior to the Civil War. Those laws are still on the books today, undeterred by the proliferation of pocket-sized and legal concealed-carry pistols from 1850 to the present. :)
most seem to be carried openly. It has a deterrent effect when carried openly and is more comfortable. Unlike the UK we have a long standing weapons culture here. You can carry a sword, spear, and Bowie of any size u wish in Texas and Louisiana.
Though as I'm sure you know, that's a very recent change in Texas law - Bowie knives were forbidden to carry until a couple of years ago, precisely because of their use in crime in the 19th century.
scholagladiatoria very true, 1871 was the year, I believe. It’s great to have our rights back. I don’t think Louisiana ever banned swords and knives, though they did ban daggers and sword canes...dagger ban was recently lifted.
While I have you here, I’m sure your aware of the Musso Bowie discovered by Joseph Musso and the basis for the 2004 Alamo Bowie Knife. It’s an awesome weapon and it’s balance, weight, and length are such that can be wielded almost like a saber...I suppose it is very close to a falchion though I’ve never handled one. If you care to acquire a Musso of your own, a very inexpensive and exceptionally high quality repro is available from a Pakistani Smith, Gulzar Ahmed who sells on eBay under “ursacraftsman1”. I own 2 of his Musso and they are both brilliant. Great attention to detail, durability, and balance. Blade is properly hardened and comes very very sharp. I’ve cut into dried bamboo many times with no perceptible loss in edge. I acquired mine for $250. I think we would all love to see your impressions of them and if it weren’t for the UKs import laws I would gladly send you one of mine. Cheers!!
Check out Bill Bagwells Hells Bells Bowies. Great custom forged blades and are fighters. Jim Keating as to some is known as The Godfather of bringing back the Bowie as a fighting knife. It's techniques are modified saber.
Several notes from your american audience, First it's pronounced buoy knife bow e knife, you said this in video but just to confirm Second I like your theory but in actually most people carried concealed firearms, the max length of a Bowie knife has to do with riding horses, Bowie knives were indeed worn on the hip usually on the off hand side(the opposite side of the pistol) and you did not want the end of the blade to be to close to your knee because it would be a constant annoyance while riding a horse through brush. If you look at the length from your belt to your knee you'll see what I'm talking about. Third in America in the 1800's when you conceal a knife you put it in the waist band of your pants in the back going in a diagonal direction across your back with the handle on your strong side, the knife shoulder holster rigs are a recent invention.
The pronunciation seems largely dependent on location, since here in the Midwest I've only heard it pronounced bow-ee and have never heard it as bouy until this video.
sem dijkstra lol he obviously knows what he’s talking abt? Most carried them tucked across the back as in...can’t sit down without removing? Guy talks as if he was there.
Hmm... It looks more like a "small of the back" type knife. Might mount it diagonally with the handle pointing toward your strong hand. Deploying something that big from an under-arm position may be somewhat awkward.
I think it's a case of Horses for Courses? A Mississippi riverboat gambler would not have the size of knife to fight a Bear, and a Frontiersman, wouldn't have any use for a knife that was too costly to lose in the woods! As for going into battle, you 're supposed to bel carrying weapons!
Matt like the theory sounds good I would like to add that another factor is going to be weight, look at police officers side arms they never were a very large size as they can get heavy after some hours. This was one of the factors in Bill Jordan (US Border Patrol) pushing for a 357 magnum on a slightly smaller K frame revolvers from the larger N frame for duty weapons.
Look here partner. The Bowie knife is a classic piece of American culture, and plus you don't say shotgun, he's a scattergun. And yes in Texas New Mexico and Old Mexico you find a lot of a giant-sized Bowie knives. I understand you started practicing with some of these knives, which is good. It's a great fighting style to learn if you really want to learn how to fight with a Bowie knife incorporate a tomahawk with it. Not a hatchet not a war axe, but tomahawk. The term meaning to strike
That doesn't mean that's proper. It is 'boo-ie', if you go by how his last name is supposed to be pronounced and how the historical, Celtic, name is pronounced.
Yes, it fits right under the arm, but that's actually coincidence. The real reason for the length is utilitarian. Longer and it's basically a short messer, and pretty unwieldy for anything other than fighting (and not terribly well suited for that either). Shorter and it won't handle medium to heavy utilitarian duties (and the fighting advantage is lost). It's an all-around tool/weapon, not a short sword, regardless of the legend or what it became after the big companies started making them. Too, one has to be pretty skinny to be able to conceat a 10 to 12 inch long, 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 inch wide blade bowie (or anything else that size) under the armpit. Most guys (especially back then) have/had the old spare tire thing going on. The idea that frontiersmen and city types, noblemen and dashing cavalry officers all looked like slim hollywood types (HA!) or people who worked out every day at the local gym is a laughable fiction. The paradigm for "fitness" and diet back then was totally different from what it is today, thus people tended to be a lot chunkier, especially after they'd left their teens or early twenties. "What does that have to do with comcealing a blade?" you ask. Simple. The tip of the blade, rather than tucking in close to the body core, on a realistically-built man of the 19th century would in fact stick out at a rather funny angle, not only making a weird-looking bulge, but also a really unsightly-looking telltale ridge running from waist to arnpit. The bulkier fabrics of the day would have exacerbated, rather than muted, the effect. The overall effect would be to make one look decidedly lopsided. So, nice theory, but not really terribly likely, IMHO.
The one shown in the video strikes me as excessively wide for its length and shape. What kind of benefits does that blade shape have over one with a slightly thinner body or a more severe clip point?
It appears to me that it could be slightly more useful for chopping/cutting into flesh thanks to the broadness of the blade. That's my only guess, though.
You should make a video regarding legislation on Bowie knives. In that the legislation rarely describes what it's writers considered a Bowie knife to be. Causing good people to get in trouble for carrying generic clip point utility knives like the ka-bar or sog seal pup. Which are not technically Bowie knives but are often misclassified as such.
_"It must be long enough to use as a sword, sharp enough to use as a razor, wide enough to use as a paddle, and heavy enough to use as a hatchet."_ ;)
SAsgarters Musso Bowie - 13.5 in blade. Dated to the 1830s
Long enough to go right through the body of any aggressor, sticking out of the back so long that you are able to hang 5 Pretzels on the blade.
This is an old south German advice how long a knife should be. The ammount of Pretzels differs between five and seven.
@@kongandbasses8732 my instructor taught split them from the neck to the balls
Today 3-9 inch blade is ideal for camping
*How to pronounce Bowie*
Use an "oh" sound when your disappointed by one. An "oo" sound when your impressed by one. And, an "ow" sound when your injured by one... |:)
Nice :-)
Yeah, honestly I don't think it matters. Who was alive then, that is still alive now, and remembers off hand how to say the name. I've heard it said each way by different people. There was even this french woman I knew some time back who called it Boiw-eh'.
@Oinche Pendejo
As I have read it in a few places; Bowie is a Scottish name. And, Supposedly central Texans pronounce it with an 'oo' sound (as in doom) under the idea that this is how the Scottish pronounce the name.
One brief article I read Said that it may have been confused by David Jones changing his last name to Bowie (which he did so as not to be confused with the lead singer of the Monkeys).
But, I still like my contextual method of pronunciation better :P
*****
Does what matter? How to pronounce it? What derivation the name has? How David Bowie Pronounces his name?
You addressed all of these things your self. It obviously mattered when you were talking about it. Now it suddenly might not matter? And, this being coincidental with the accuracy of the information you provided being called into question?
***** That depends on what your definition of the word "is" is.
This theory is actually supported by early court cases concerning the Second Amendment. Bliss v. Commonwealth (Kentucky) in 1822, though dealt with a gentleman using a sword cane, was passed for the number of people carrying large knives concealed. The opinion of the court states "The act provides, that any person in this commonwealth, who shall hereafter wear a pocket pistol, dirk, large knife, or sword in a cane, concealed as a weapon, unless when traveling on a journey, shall be fined in any sum not less than $100; which may be recovered in any court having jurisdiction of like sums, by action of debt, or on presentment of a grand jury."
The case of Aymette v. State (Tennessee) in 1840 specifically mentions Bowie Knives, as Aymette was indicted on a Tennessee law, the case stated that Aymette "did wear a certain bowie knife under his clothes, and keep the same concealed about his person, contrary to the form of the statute."
A very good theory that does have some evidence to support it.
Bliss v. Commonwealth, 12 Ky. (2 Litt.) 90, 13 Am. Dec. 251 (1822).
Aymette v. State, 21 Tenn. (2 Hump.) 154 (1840).
It sucks they were already infringing on the 2nd in that time, but its very good, and interesting history you brought to the video !
$100 fine in 1822 adjusted for inflation today: $2,457.30
As with today these statutes are of doubtful constitutionality and I wonder if any of them held up in court or were regularly applied.
As to length of blade from a utilitarian perspective. The Bowie knife is a magnificient tool as well as a weapon. However, I know from my use of sapmi knives against frozen wood, fish fileting and small game that there is a max length for a knife to be used for skinning/fileting or as a hachette against wood, and especially smaller bush w higher concentrations of rezin. (Thusly good for making a fire in a cold environ). Additionally you can wighdraw and stab much quicker with a shorter blade. (Something one can see easily by watching usrangers basic knife practice). It is a fair trade off, and a modern screamsax in my opinion. Btw thanx for the vids!
A lot of the American made ones (of the period) were often made out of old rasps by blacksmiths so this would also dictate size.The original bull killer that the Bowie was based on was a Spanish knife with a more curved Moorish type blade where the false edge went back almost to the hilt.
Interesting, I havent heard that theory before :) That would make sense, but I'm sure weight and practicality figured in as well. Most of the time you would not be using it for combat but for other tasks so a knife bigger than your example would be quite cumbersome ("firepower vs mobility" and all that).
Most likely it was a combination of many factors though.
More than a theory. ANY travel to ANY Central American sub-urban, rural or jungle area will find "many to most" men carrying machetes. Sheathed, or even "bare blade", hang from lanyards strung so the tool (used for grass cutting) are dangling under the armpit.
Quite right, and also so that it didn't protrude when a carrier sat down.
I appreciate your insight and depth of knowledge you possess which must have taken many years of dedication and devotion to compile and document. Thank you.
Soldiers are often wearing bowie knives and bajonets/daggers in the manner Matt showed in the video. Only outside of their tactical vests.
It is practical for getting in and out of vehicles and when kneeling and it is easy to reach under the right armpit while grapling with the left arm in a left foot forward defensive pose.
Matt: Good video as usual. This is a topic I've been researching myself for the last year or so in so far as I've started training in classical methods of using "big steel". As far as the carry method I think far more common was in the belt or waistband with a "frog" on the sheath. I have several Bowies which are set up this way. Search Bill Bagwell and Panther Concealment with Bowie on UA-cam for more about this method of carry. I also have a 10" Bowie which I had a leather shoulder rig built for but the frog sheath is simply much more comfortable and practical.
i have the bagwell hells belle in a southern comfort sheath very fast11.14 inches long
ive been to james blacks forging shop where he made the first bowie knife its located outside of hope, Arkansas in the washington state park, ive actually taken classes in the use and concealing of bowies i believe that anyone taking a hit from one will bleed to death or lose body parts from hits, when you line the knife up it is impossible to see the backcut coming so you cannt avoid taking the hit
there is a great book on bowie knives, that you must get. Norm Flayderman's book. There is a lot of contemporary source material re: correspondence and newspaper clippings from the day. He does the best job I have ever seen of the Wostenholm (my favorite) workshop from Sheffield. You would love this if you don't have it. Yes, in studying and also talking to archaeologist friends, most were frame handle from the Sheffield workshops. It allows for easy additions.
I like the looks of the one in the video. Very nice. I recently bought the Condor Undertaker Bowie. Pretty much the sweet spot for size and weight. The comment regarding the ability to draw the knife quickly makes alot of sense to me. If it were used for self defence, I would think that the ability to draw it quickly was a must. Drawing a fifteen inch knife with average length arms may be problematic to do quickly while under the preasure of imminent attack.
Not what I was thinking when you posed the question although not saying I disagree.
My thought is that is the max length that the knife can be used when grappling. You need to be able to apply the point when grappled and a too long weapon will not be maneuverable enough. Your last line of defense weapon has to work at that range.
I agree with the other posters that as a tool it loses at lot when it gets to be machete length.
Short and to the point. Good job!
Bowie Knives were also worn openly and seen as fashionable. Some were ornately decorated
Correct ! it depended on whos area you were in much like today !
Matt, the age of the Bowie knife as a primary backup weapon was probably no more than 40 years, from the 1820's to the Civil War when mass produced repeating handguns became widely available. After that is when you really start seeing the "hunting" bowies, "cowboy" bowies and the very fancy "mens jewelry" mid sized bowies like the knives made in San Fransisco by folks like Michael Price and Will & Finck. There were small concealable VERy fancy "dirks" and such made early on for gents by guys like Samuel Bell, but some of the finest knives of that period like ones made by Daniel Searles, Henry Shiveley, Samuel Bell etc. were quite large. If you look at a Bell dirk and a Bell Bowie, they ar the same design, just very different in size. There has been a fair bit of study lately and some theorize that the bowie fighting techniques were pretty much adapted from existing 18th and 19th Century WMA techniques like French, Spanish and English fencing and Scottish saber techniques. The Scots are where some speculate that "back cut" technique using the clip point came from.
When I was in my early 20s, I carried a Bowie knife pretty much everywhere! it was always interesting to see the reaction of people when they saw it. it is a awesome weapon
There's also another reason
Bowie knives are utility/hunting knives, not just weapons. If you try to do any fine work with a sword you'd find it's not exactly easy. So if you were to skin a buffalo with something the size of a saber you'd probably opt for a better knife.
Knifes of that size are usually more bill-like in they operations. Lapland Leuku is one example of such, heavy long blade used for hacking firewoods, preparing poles for tent, hacking fronzen body of reindeer for meat or other things like that (we used to dig pitchy stumps from ground in army with it :) ).
They carried and still carry small knife along with it for more precise stuff, preparing foods, carve splinters to start fire, carving campcocks etc. Both Leuku and smaller Puukko are carried in same sheath, which is pretty priceless combination.
So Buwie of that size is not utility knife as much as hacking tool. I'd be surprised if someone living out the land would not carry smaller knife along with his Buuwie. And Buuwies design really doesn't seem to be utility knife.
Give me a buffalo and a saber and ill see what i can do
The Sheffield-made Bowie knife is the most practical knife for dressing big game.
I agree with your theory about size being the limiting factor. Larger knives (Civil War) probably didn't have concealment in mind. I'd rather just have a gladius at that point. If I had to conceal a knife I'd rather use a ka-bar - not an option for much of history lol
I think the luxury Bowie's crafted by artists often with silver were carried by rich or upper class people under theyr jacket and so are relativeled small sized . They were rarely used and are so preserved in pristine condition . The plainer,cheaper ,often bigger bowie's ( around 12" or more) carried for hunting- bushcraft --utility-deffence were used and overused for many years then recicled or throw away so few are left. James Bowie gived his name to a sort of knife that existed before him since the early middle age (north european seax) and had continued to evolved until the end of the 19th century.
Ragbir Singh Von Tempsky broke his signature 11" blade and ground it down resulting in a 7 1/2" blade. He preferred the shorter, reportedly.
I'm glad you're not obsessing too much about how to pronounce it. Where I live--in the Ohio River valley, you'll hear both pronunciations as we have northerners and southerners in equal proportions around here. They're quite common and some people still carry them concealed. Of course, the practice is frowned upon in the hospitals that I work with ;-)
In terms of knives Matt, do you know much about the USMC KA - BAR knife? Is it something you'd rate well and want to add to your collection?
A lot of times they would just stick them down through their belt they didn't have a retention strap because they just had the little that stuck out to keep it from sliding all the way down
I have and swear by my Bowie Knife, you maybe right about the pit to hip length thing but I always wear it on my hip with it tied down to my thigh, which is also a great place where the length does not get in the way and is also hidden by a great coat or duster.
Interesting video, Although there was some variety in the size of some of the historic Bowies
which date all the way back to when James Bowie was alive such as 'Bowie No 1' (20 overall inches)
and the Musso Bowie (19 overall inches) on display at the Arkansas History museum
both of which date from the 1830's and are monster sized Bowie knives as well as some others.
The UA-cam video (Bowie Knife 1820-1870) gives an interesting display of various Bowies from this era and their history.
Confederate Bowie's are my favorite! Especially the D guard models.
13BRAVO REDLEG I have yet to purchase or acquire the “ D “ guard model .
I’m on another mission now .
( hope you come over to Subscribe and check out my collection).
Thanh’s 🤠
I want one of those. Both an antique as a display piece and a form of hard asset to pass down to my future kids, and a practical reproduction in case I want to do some tatami cutting.
Man, I love that thing. 80£ for a one off, custom made knife in high carbon steel is a pretty sweet deal too.
As someone that regularly carries a bowie concealed, I can say that yes Matt you are correct, but not because it becomes too hard to conceal, it's because if you sit and the point of the sheathe is below your hip, it hits whatever you've sat on. Which, if the bowie is too long, will jam up into your arm pit. And yes, I've had it happen, and no, it does not feel good at all. Quite painful in fact.
You're probably essentially correct on the blade length issue. Bowie knives, however, were never used as utility or hunting knives. They were strictly fighting knives. A frontiersman carrying a large fighting knife would have carried at least one other (and possibly two or three) smaller knives for gutting and skinning animals, eating, and various other chores. "Bowie knives" and earlier large fighting knives were, and still are, far too clumsy for general camp and trail utility use. Instead, in the days of single-shot muzzle loading firearms, such large knives were the backup weapons that never ran out of ammunition.
You should see some of the people using Bowie knives for wood crafts. You wouldn't use the word clumsy when you describe them.
Since Jim Bowie died in 1836 at the Alamo and his knife fame came from the 1820's in Louisiana, mostly from the Sandbar Fight (which he didn't start - he was observing a duel - and only participated in after he was attacked) you need to revise your comments about when and where it was commonly worn. Now American men still commonly carry knives. I have three on me right now. Predominantly they are used as tools. I have carried a smaller Bowie knife on occasion for self protection. The penalties are far fewer than carrying aconcealed firearm in my atate, though like most I've done that too on several occasions. The full size Bowie knives started being phased out post-Civil War as repeating cartridge pistols became common. Also as magazine fed cartridge rifles became common too. The ability to have many shots, along with the ease of reloading and carrying sufficient amounts of amnunition, made full scale knife fighting relatively rare. Wars always being the Bowie back into popularity. I'm just old enough to remember much older boys getting presentation Bowies, often custom made and paid for by a group of relatives and friends, given as a gift before someone went off to Vietnam. The Randall knives of that period are collector's items. It's been revived since the First Gulf War.
The classic Bowie was 9-1/2 inches long and 1-1/2 inches wide at the hilt. There is always a sharp false edge and point. That's on the large end of practical for a hunting; fighting and utility knife. It wouldn't be too heavy for everyday carry with a sturdy belt and/or suspenders. It could also be carried in a deep pocket or a sash. As could a pistol.
What sources did you use to make this video? I have a book by Dwight McClemore that suggests they were carried openly.
N Arries yes most seem to be carried openly. It has a deterrent effect when carried openly and is more comfortable. Unlike the UK we have a long standing weapons culture here. You can carry a sword, spear, and Bowie of any size u wish in Texas and Louisiana.
@@deannorris5662 Open carry wasn't for a deterrent. It was because it was required by law in many places especially the south. If you look at period articles people thought only criminals carried concealed because they were hiding something. Places like California and some States in the south(some have changed recently) still require open carry of large knives from 5 to sword inches long because they are seen as weapons.
Very nice example Sir !
Also sparring with them is really fun and I have worked with tomahawk and Bowie knife sparring and it's a really unique experience. It's really hard to find decent tomahawk techniques and Native American martial arts is very limited.
What was the book title you were reading that mentioned wearing them high like that?
I’m from the Kentucky area and that IS an old tradition among Appalachian folks when toting a Bowie knife. Would REALLY like to read the text that mentions it!!!
That's good to know because the max length I can fit in my current forge is about an 11 inch blade.
A Great book on the Bowie Knife is by Norm Flayderman. On page 3473 1/2 feet long beauty..Made in 1860 by the Beaver Falls Cutlery works.
It is interesting to discuss and sport theories as to how bowies were carried in the 19th century.
What might be considered actually factual, would be photos with matching pedigree, provenance, and stories about whom might be wearing them.
As someone who has carried a Bowie knife that way, I suspect you're correct. Some Bowie knives are longer. I've seen quite a few around fourteen inches, and a fair number out to sixteen inches. I think this is because there were huge regions of America where there were no rules at all, and very little law. Often no law, and no place for hundreds of miles where you couldn't carry whatever you wanted to carry.
I've seen shoulder rigs for these longer knives where the knife was carried perpendicular to the body, and others where the knife was carried on the side, canted like a long sword, and pulled with a cross draw.
Handguns were carried in similar fashion where large handguns were carried opening on the plains and the wilderness, and even in many boomtowns, but pocket guns were carried where handguns were either frowned upon, or were actually illegal within city limits.
any thoughts on the 'spartan cleaver' from the frank miller movie 300, it's essentially a bowie knife crossed with a falcata....
matt eastons professional definition of a bowie: "a huge freakin knife". lol
Yup Huge Fricken Knife. Used to be a Bowie fan boy and have owned my share but tastes change and lets face it it's all about taste, you could definitely have an argument on which knife is better Bowie v Tanto style and ad nauseam. For me now it's about the quality of the steel and how it holds an edge and if its right for the task rather than just aesthetics. Anywho that's a huge fricken knife.
That's a shoulder holster position. It's not a "concealed carry position." Shoulder holsters just so happen to be easily covered by jackets (the buttons, folds, and opening were all designed to enable weapon access), but they are "open carry" holsters. Some designs have jacketed/concealed wear more in mind than others, like Galco's Miami FBI Classic 2. It's even black, most holsters are made of handsome leather to look flashy, not a concealment trait.
A true "concealed carry" position is on the belt at the 4 o clock position worn in an inside the waistband (IWB) holster and covered by a shirt and perhaps a jacket. That position and mode of carry is designed to hide the pistol with minimal clothing and keep it retained at the expense of comfort and rapid access and has little applicability elsewhere. And outside the waistband holster (OWB) would be much more practical, could still be slightly concealed by a shirt and or jacket, but is much more comfortable and easier access while only being only slightly more exposed to hostile grab attempts. A duty holster on a duty belt (cowboy style) like modern police wear is the most comfortable, most rapid access, least concealed and most vulnerable to being taken away.
I can wear my shoulder holster hunting, hiking, at home, or out to a fancy dinner (and I do!). Carrying IWB at 4 o clock under a shirt is not a great way to hike or hunt; its for fancy dinner, your day job, or covert work. OWB is how you hike, hunt, and do uniformed duty. It sure would be nice if the only people I had to hide my guns from were bad guys...
I think is a rule we could basically say that the larger Bowie knives exist in places where men wore them on their pistol belt exposed. Even things like the muso buoy make a lot more sense in the context of using it during warfare, Or in places where everybody went about armed.
Interesting info, and I'm guessing your theory is correct.
Something to note about concealed carry in America:
Shoulder holsters used to be a common way to carry by detectives, and once civilian concealed carry became more common, many simply took the cue from existing shoulder rigs that cops used and started using them in civilian contexts.
However, these days shoulder carry has fallen out of favor in America due to changes in common clothing and advances in training methods. Nowadays concealed pistols are almost always carried on the belt in some form, either inside or outside the waistband.
Nowadays wearing jackets all the time is far less common, so you can't get away with a shoulder rig, which is only concealed until you take off your jacket. Most people carry on the belt with the pistol inside the waistband, which allows you to conceal the pistol under just a slightly loose shirt (usually untucked, but there are deep-concealment 'tuckable' holsters for tucked in shirts). It's less socially acceptable to keep your jacket on indoors these days, so your pistol has to go under something that you CAN legitimately keep on without being rude or causing people to ask questions.
The second reason is training and safety. When drawing from a belt holster with the barrel pointed down, the draw motion keeps the pistol pointed down at the ground until you rotate it up towards you target and extend your arms outward. With a cross-body shoulder rig, you 'sweep' your muzzle across a 180 degree horizontal arc to the side, and the weapon is pointed at your arm, and sweeping any other person standing to the side. This is both a slower draw stroke and is less safe, as it is distinctly possible that when drawing under stress you may accidentally snatch the trigger, and if you do that at just the wrong moment you could shoot yourself in the arm or shoot your friend next to you.
Just some notes on the evolution of gear and training. It's cool to try and think about changes in modern techniques like you examine the historical contexts of things like 19th century bowie knives. Cool mental exercise! :D
This is a perfectly reasonable inference, just as long as one remembers that it's not the *only* factor influencing knife size. Other points made in these comments, such as length's effect on practical usage as a camp tool, are also valid.
This hypothesis also explains the seemingly contradictory fact of the giant, Civil War Bowies that you mention, because conditions of open warfare do NOT require concealment, allowing for the carry of larger weapons. (This was especially true on horseback, with some cavalry troops discarding sabers for large knives.)
On the other hand, I'd like to point out that this is not the only way knives were carried: comments attributed to Wyatt Earp and other sources, plus pictorial evidence, make note of Bowies being carried behind the hip, at the side on the belt, and even around the neck (these presumably being smaller ones).
His name would have been pronounced both ways depending on where he was at the time. The knife design has evolved over the years and few resemble the original description. today it is more of a wide bladed riflemans knife. Actually that design happened by the time of the American Civil War. Many even looking at pictures mistake the rifleman knife for a Bowie. Shively/Perkins Bowie is the closest to the original. www.tamu.edu/faculty/ccbn/dewitt/adp/history/bios/bowie/knife_like_bowies.html has great information. The Bowie was made as a fighting knife. Rezin gave it to his brother so he would never be unarmed.
The Bowie family, though James was born upriver in Tennessee, was from Louisiana and of French descent. Bowie himself spoke English; French and Spanish as native languages. His wife and the relatives he lived with all spoke Spanish. The correct pronunciation is "BOO-E" as anyone from Louisiana or East Texas would be happy to teach you. Forcefully if necessary.
The clip point was a Western style, meant for fighting and utility. The Midwest “frontier” bowie had a sweeping drop point, and a belly for chopping. You’ll see a perfect example in the horror movie Wolf Creek.
I'm going to dig into my books incase there's something. But I thought they were also often forged from Farrier rasps and as a Smith you can only draw steel out so far without welding on more
Beautiful knife! Looks new. Maker? source?
From the days when fencing was still used as a way of life.
One thing that bears remembering, and may have already been mentioned, is that Jim Bowie lived in early 19th Century Mississippi and Louisiana, and was a gambler.
As a gambler, having a dedicated fighting knife is a pretty good idea in case a disagreement regarding money turns ugly, but beyond the obvious concerns of whether you can carry a weapon (and though Bowie knives make excellent tool knives, it WAS designed specifically for knife-fighting), there's another major benefit of concealment: surprise.
By having a concealed weapon, your opponent, or potential opponent, is unaware of where you carry your weapon, even if they suspect that you are, in fact, armed. That's not something to be ignored. Plus, gamblers don't just get into fights in self-defense or in the course of arguments. Sometimes the person with a concealed weapon is the "bad guy", and might well be intending to ambush a person.
Finally, concealing a weapon potentially avoids instigating or escalating an argument, just as openly carrying a weapon can potentially deter a fight.
All of these things are important to remember when thinking about the design of anything, not just the specific case of Bowie knives.
P.S. - Large Civil War-era type Bowie knives, often with knuckle bows, such as those carried by some Confederate soldiers were different largely because they were intended for a context of open warfare, where concealment is much less useful, and a large knife or small machete, with a guard for protecting the hand (which often doubled as a sort of bronze knuckle) has very real advantages over a civilian-type knife.
Check the length of wing chun butterfly swords, size depends on the size between elbow and wrist of each person, that is the correct information, but us always you carry or fight with whatever is easiest to find.
Most larger 12+in.,Bowies were worn to the side, however most Bowies were not massive knives and simply were carried tucked in the waistband of trousers.
Friendly greetings from Brazil. I really enjoy your videos, you could answer me who is the manufacturer of this beautiful Bowie knive?
Grateful.
Cross-draw holsters that hang under your armpit are not especially popular due to the difficulty in re-holstering the pistol, which requires you to secure a fastener of some kind. Also, when you draw a pistol from a holster like this, you sweep a large, potentially unsafe area with the barrel of the weapon.
They are almost never allowed at public firearms ranges for this reason.
I enjoyed your clip. Thank you.
I like your view to this topic!
Thanks for sharing .
I'm not sure how accurate of an account wikipedia presents on the sandbar fight, but it is a really interesting description. The fight shows how oddly things can turn out when early period weapons are involved. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandbar_Fight
"bowie knife" was a pretty widely used term throughout the 19th century in america .. it was even used sometimes to describe folding knives .. the idea that it is a large clip point knife with a double guard was something that evolved in the 20th century .. the fact is that nobody even knows for sure what the knife looked like that Bowie carried .. it would have to be something that looked like it would be good for combat or fighting , thats about it ..
Remember many of 'Bowie"carriers hunted ,skinned or process ed Buffalo. You need a huge sharp knife
the majority of Bowie knives are actually worn on the belt or through sash. the sheath would actually have a frog on it to hold it in place. watch Lynn Thompson in his videos talking about the Nachez bowie Bill bagwells videos and writings on them
I do bushcraft and camping and I use to carry big knives but i think carring a knife in that way could be dangerous, because of if you fall you could broke your ribs
always great information, thanks
In the 1800's northerners complained about the overt "knife flourishing" of southern college students. Of course prominent display was common on the American South, particularly after Jim Bowie was estate as a frontier legend. Look at the photographs and tintypes of new southern recruits for the American Civil War. Public display was the point.
Frances Trollope describes the environment amusingly in the 1832 travel diary Domestic Manners of the Americans, if you want a European perspective.
I heard that Bowie knives were more often used as a tool rather than a weapon.
I can believe that. Surely, not everybody who lived back then was a total Clint Eastwood in a fight. However, I’ll bet a whole lot of people were skinning game, carving wood, trimming fishing line, slicing bread, chopping vegetables, opening envelopes, or opening tins of food.
I would like to do a Scheffield version with the half horse , half alligator. Doing a lot of research. Appreciate the video. I was figuring on from hip to knee so if I was carrying it on my hip, if I took a knee, the point would not touch the ground.
That SOB flaps against the knee
The ability to draw it quickly would also determine the length.
Thank you.
Anyone knows what model Bowie is that? It doesn't seem antique to me, but who knows... I'll be happy to own that exact knife.
Love these videos Matt, the bowie is by far my favorite personal defense weapon of any time period, and the legendary name that with which it got its never ceases to amaze me. I am some what of a knife smith, I'm no brilliant craftsman as of yet, only maybe half a year under my belt, and the next personal project I intend to undertake is a bowie knife made as traditionally as I can get it, and I was wondering if you had any resources you could reccomend that might help in my quest to make myself both a bowie as you were holding there, and an arkansas toothpick, the knife that become synonymous with dueling? either way, thanks for the information Matt, take care.
Kyle Bates Great Comment !
I just want to invite you over to my channel .
Doing mostly Bowie knife reviews . I’m not a pro but I am having a good time .
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That first joke cracked me up!
I was thinking it might be thigh length that was the limiter. Anything longer than your thigh will get in the way while you do manual labour. You don't wear a sword while labouring, you do wear a knife while labouring. I suspect that is the difference.
Interesting hypothesis! I'm just off to try my 11" Bowie for size!
Just ordered the spyderco respect at about 8 inch blade i think thats decent for now a days
Love that knife, any idea where I can buy one?
Ever noticed how the Bowie knife looks a lot like a smaller version of the German Messer? Which is a old Germanic blade style.
How do you, as a Texan, say the name Bowie? Does it rhyme with Louie, or snowy? Or do you say it differently depending on if you are talking about the Alamo hero, or the British rock star?
According to a dialect survey from Joshua Katz’s North Carolina State University, Texans are among the only Americans to still rhyme Bowie with gooey, though the portion of us who do appears to be shrinking as Ziggy Stardust’s fame eclipses that of Texas’s own James.
It's called a Boo-ie knife. What do British pristine in calling it a Bow-ie knife? If get David Bowie was important to you but it still doesn't change the historicity of the proper Surname of Bowie belonging to the famous Jim Bowie. Plenty of historical references to the proper pronunciation to the name. Laziness is all I can attribute this to.
The commercially sold clip-blade knife is "Bowie" like the old glam-boy. The dead Alamo hero is "Boo-ie", ultimately derived from the Welsh & Gaelic pronunciation of "w' as literal "double-u".
Fun fact: Bowies and other fighting knives of a similar size as shown were legally prohibited from concealed carry under a coat or jacket as you have demonstrated in many states prior to the Civil War. Those laws are still on the books today, undeterred by the proliferation of pocket-sized and legal concealed-carry pistols from 1850 to the present. :)
most seem to be carried openly. It has a deterrent effect when carried openly and is more comfortable. Unlike the UK we have a long standing weapons culture here. You can carry a sword, spear, and Bowie of any size u wish in Texas and Louisiana.
Though as I'm sure you know, that's a very recent change in Texas law - Bowie knives were forbidden to carry until a couple of years ago, precisely because of their use in crime in the 19th century.
scholagladiatoria very true, 1871 was the year, I believe. It’s great to have our rights back. I don’t think Louisiana ever banned swords and knives, though they did ban daggers and sword canes...dagger ban was recently lifted.
While I have you here, I’m sure your aware of the Musso Bowie discovered by Joseph Musso and the basis for the 2004 Alamo Bowie Knife. It’s an awesome weapon and it’s balance, weight, and length are such that can be wielded almost like a saber...I suppose it is very close to a falchion though I’ve never handled one. If you care to acquire a Musso of your own, a very inexpensive and exceptionally high quality repro is available from a Pakistani Smith, Gulzar Ahmed who sells on eBay under “ursacraftsman1”. I own 2 of his Musso and they are both brilliant. Great attention to detail, durability, and balance. Blade is properly hardened and comes very very sharp. I’ve cut into dried bamboo many times with no perceptible loss in edge. I acquired mine for $250. I think we would all love to see your impressions of them and if it weren’t for the UKs import laws I would gladly send you one of mine. Cheers!!
Check out Bill Bagwells Hells Bells Bowies. Great custom forged blades and are fighters. Jim Keating as to some is known as The Godfather of bringing back the Bowie as a fighting knife. It's techniques are modified saber.
Several notes from your american audience,
First it's pronounced buoy knife bow e knife, you said this in video but just to confirm
Second I like your theory but in actually most people carried concealed firearms, the max length of a Bowie knife has to do with riding horses, Bowie knives were indeed worn on the hip usually on the off hand side(the opposite side of the pistol) and you did not want the end of the blade to be to close to your knee because it would be a constant annoyance while riding a horse through brush. If you look at the length from your belt to your knee you'll see what I'm talking about.
Third in America in the 1800's when you conceal a knife you put it in the waist band of your pants in the back going in a diagonal direction across your back with the handle on your strong side, the knife shoulder holster rigs are a recent invention.
i agree, good thinking. you obviously know what you are talking about
The pronunciation seems largely dependent on location, since here in the Midwest I've only heard it pronounced bow-ee and have never heard it as bouy until this video.
But peaple would ride with sabers and that's a hell of alot longer then the bowi
sem dijkstra lol he obviously knows what he’s talking abt? Most carried them tucked across the back as in...can’t sit down without removing? Guy talks as if he was there.
So what would an under the jacket bowie knife sheath/scabbard look like and how is it attached?
More likely worn upside down.
The traditional technique was to present the blade point up.
Hmm... It looks more like a "small of the back" type knife. Might mount it diagonally with the handle pointing toward your strong hand. Deploying something that big from an under-arm position may be somewhat awkward.
I think it's a case of Horses for Courses? A Mississippi riverboat gambler would not have the size of knife to fight a Bear, and a Frontiersman, wouldn't have any use for a knife that was too costly to lose in the woods!
As for going into battle, you 're supposed to bel carrying weapons!
First time running into this video, like the video would like to know what is the name of the knife.
Funny, in my 20s I did carry a bowie that way. Only problem was making a way to carry it.
Matt like the theory sounds good I would like to add that another factor is going to be weight, look at police officers side arms they never were a very large size as they can get heavy after some hours. This was one of the factors in Bill Jordan (US Border Patrol) pushing for a 357 magnum on a slightly smaller K frame revolvers from the larger N frame for duty weapons.
Look here partner. The Bowie knife is a classic piece of American culture, and plus you don't say shotgun, he's a scattergun. And yes in Texas New Mexico and Old Mexico you find a lot of a giant-sized Bowie knives. I understand you started practicing with some of these knives, which is good. It's a great fighting style to learn if you really want to learn how to fight with a Bowie knife incorporate a tomahawk with it. Not a hatchet not a war axe, but tomahawk. The term meaning to strike
Yoy could have something there. Many state laws against "concealed weapons" in the US specifically list "bowie knives" by name.
thats really interesting. i never thought of that. makes sense.
I always heard it pronounce like Bow-ie, and I live in the city he called home the last ten years of his life
That doesn't mean that's proper. It is 'boo-ie', if you go by how his last name is supposed to be pronounced and how the historical, Celtic, name is pronounced.
Your original pronunciation was correct, it's an American knife, and we usually say things with a short O rather than a long O
I have my concealed pistol on my hip, but under the arm would work when it gets colder.
Yes, it fits right under the arm, but that's actually coincidence. The real reason for the length is utilitarian. Longer and it's basically a short messer, and pretty unwieldy for anything other than fighting (and not terribly well suited for that either). Shorter and it won't handle medium to heavy utilitarian duties (and the fighting advantage is lost). It's an all-around tool/weapon, not a short sword, regardless of the legend or what it became after the big companies started making them.
Too, one has to be pretty skinny to be able to conceat a 10 to 12 inch long, 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 inch wide blade bowie (or anything else that size) under the armpit. Most guys (especially back then) have/had the old spare tire thing going on. The idea that frontiersmen and city types, noblemen and dashing cavalry officers all looked like slim hollywood types (HA!) or people who worked out every day at the local gym is a laughable fiction. The paradigm for "fitness" and diet back then was totally different from what it is today, thus people tended to be a lot chunkier, especially after they'd left their teens or early twenties.
"What does that have to do with comcealing a blade?" you ask. Simple. The tip of the blade, rather than tucking in close to the body core, on a realistically-built man of the 19th century would in fact stick out at a rather funny angle, not only making a weird-looking bulge, but also a really unsightly-looking telltale ridge running from waist to arnpit. The bulkier fabrics of the day would have exacerbated, rather than muted, the effect. The overall effect would be to make one look decidedly lopsided.
So, nice theory, but not really terribly likely, IMHO.
The one shown in the video strikes me as excessively wide for its length and shape. What kind of benefits does that blade shape have over one with a slightly thinner body or a more severe clip point?
It appears to me that it could be slightly more useful for chopping/cutting into flesh thanks to the broadness of the blade. That's my only guess, though.
You should make a video regarding legislation on Bowie knives. In that the legislation rarely describes what it's writers considered a Bowie knife to be. Causing good people to get in trouble for carrying generic clip point utility knives like the ka-bar or sog seal pup. Which are not technically Bowie knives but are often misclassified as such.
You'd think Ziggy Stardust could just hire some body guards...
Cool video. To the point
Normal cc for bowie was in belt w/frog used to stabilize rig.....anyone have info on Compass bowies?....i have a really nice one