2000 Honda S2000 vs 2022 Porsche 718 Spyder - Head to Head Review!
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- Опубліковано 1 лип 2023
- An S2000 with its top down is one of the most enjoyable driving experiences you can have on a sunny day. But what if you have 5x the budget? Is the 414 hp, 8000 rpm Porsche 718 Spyder really that much more exciting on a winding road?
Check out Jeff's track videos on his 718 Spyder and more: @TurninTrackOut
2000 Honda S2000 mod list:
- Apex VS-5RS 17x9+61
- Hankook RS4 225/45/17 front, 255/40/17 rear
- KW V3
- Mugen suspension bushings
2022 Porsche 718 Spyder Mod List:
Engine:
- BMC Performance Air Filter
- Kline Innovation Valvetronic Cat Back Exhaust (Inconel 625/OPF Link Pipes/Stock Headers)
Suspension:
- DSC Controller (setup by TPC, Tom Chan)
- Swift Springs
- TPC Racing Race-Grade Lower Control Arm Inner
- TPC Racing Front WideTrack Steering Rods
- TPC Racing OFFSET GT4 Adjustable Toe Links
- TPC Thrust Arm Bushings (front and rear)
Other:
- Forgeline 20” wheels with Cup2’s: 255/35/20 fronts, 305/30/20 rears (street setup)
- Forgeline 19” wheels with Goodyear 3r’s: 235/35/19 fronts, 305/30/19 rears (track setup)
- Corner balance
- Rolled rear fenders to fit 305’s
- Aftermarket brake disks
- Ferodo 3.12 brake pads
- Initial setup by TPC with tuning by Turn In Track Out (Speak with Tom Chan, TPC)
- Alekshop used for installation and setup support (Fremont, CA)
Follow me on IG: / zygrene
Email me if you'd like me to review your car: zygrene@gmail.com - Авто та транспорт
Great video and the audio turned out great (my bad for last time). Next time you’ll have to try the track where I think it shows best!!!
What track would that be?
@@dabjabarup to Fenton. I think Sonoma or Thill would be best.
Do you have a list of mods for your 718 somewhere? I’m looking to do some updates on mine
@@Track_Starhe posted it in the description. Let me know if you have any questions.
718 sounds insane on camera can't imagine how much better it sounds in person.
This was just another excuse to film another s2k lol. Aint mad at'cha though lol
Hey man, that was a great video. Thanks for reviewing my S2000. Absolutely agree with your assessment on the steering feel and lack of power (but that's perfect for a novice driver like me, haha). Great video, now I want to be financially irresponsible and get Jeff's spyder!
Obviously that Spyder is in a different league when it comes to performance. One thing that is interesting to ponder is just how well everything on that Porsche will be working come 2045 when it reaches the same age as your car now.
Great video. This wasn’t a fair comparison. Of course the car that’s 4x the price and 15 years newer is going to “win.” Both cars are an awesome collection piece.
@@VirtualGuth That's why the nsx is worth so much even though it's not a "pure" sports car
I’ve been waiting for this comparison! I started with an S2000 now I have a GT4. I was surprised how similar but different they feel. Both amazing cars. Great video!
Seems like Jeff’s spyder is way more engaging than mine because of the mods. My 718 spyder MT doesn’t sound anything like that and I can tell that Jeff’s handling seems more precise and edgier. Granted I don’t track. The S2000 experience seems like my BRZ…not so refined but sooo much fun 👍. Enjoyed watching
Yeah, the mods on Jeff's car are meant to enhance how the car behaves near/at the limit. Not ideal for a mostly street driven car.
The two roadsters I want in my garage (AP2). Always loved the s2k and regret selling mine. Simple car, no fancy electronics, and fun to drive on the streets.
The comparison I never thought I needed
Great review
No doubt you got way more focused and serious in the spyder. That car demands it with its high level of performance. Even my adrenalin kicked in just watching. Thanks for being honest about the S2000's lack of power and steering feel. That was always my impression, but I know its hard for S2000 owners to admit it. PORSCHE, there is no substitute!
Nope, not hard to admit at all. That's my car in the video. Steering feel is a suggestion. And I don't look over at the prius next to me at the stop light, because it'll probably beat me 30-40mph, haha.
haha why hard to admit? it's a well known factor that the S2000 has bad steering feel and a lack of torque (not power, i mean it still makes it's 240hp but compared to a new Boxster Spyder it's down on power yes haha) and most S2000 drivers i know have the spare money to spend on the mods to improve it but not the money for a new Boxster Spyder so the car still has it's niche.
@@nocturneastro2539 Haha, The Prius can be a menace if you are not above 6000 rpm and hitting V-tec yo! 😆😆nice that you can appreciate it's strengths, but also honest about it's weaknesses. Those are good traits in a car enthusiast. Porsches have their strengths and weaknesses too, but sometimes they get pretty damn close to perfection. Thanks for sharing your ride for the review!
@@binskee677 I have raced against many S2000's at the track in my days. They are no joke in the corners when set up right and always taken seriously with a good driver. I know all about doing the best with the budget you can afford and working your way up 👍🏼👍🏼
@qikqbn77 no problem, there may be another review of the car with a few more mild modifications that are coming later this year. Focusing on driver's touch points, and maybe additional chassis work. I will not be doing any power mods (kind of no point as I learned the F20C is pretty much maxed out from factory already)
My fave drop top exp was a ND2 w KWs and some aftermarket exhaust (similar to a car you have driven Zygrene in your stock vs modded ND2 video). The steering got much better than the already decent stock and the sound was really good. I enjoy the ND2s breakaway vs the S2000 and as you said, the S2000s steering feel (though direct) is completely numb. Havent driven these rare Porsches but Ive always found new Porsches, including Boxster GTS to have very high limits and a bit of a clinical feel for daily/street smiles.
Hopefully someone figures out how to hack and retune the electric rack in the S2K. The 981s have been hacked not sure on the 982 but they come with the 991 Turbo S rack standard
What mods do you suggest for the S2000's steering rack?
Love your reviews. Would be better if you had exterior shots of the cars driving by or even a pace car to get rear or front shots
How many UA-cam uploads does it take to drive Jeff’s Spyder? ;)
Fenton, where’s the link to the best S2K you’ve driven? Looking for the perfect road and track blend.
ua-cam.com/video/5JrUiMFBK14/v-deo.html
I have an AP2 and my brother has a 718 Spyder (he has a manual gearbox.) We love driving one another’s cars. The ride on his car is so nice and smooth, and the power is intoxicating. But there is simply nowhere in his area where he can wring his car out past 2nd gear. I know it’s been said so much that it’s a cliché, but I enjoy the fact that I can use so much more of my car every day. But without question, the 718 Spyder pulls so many G’s with its outstanding grip, and I know that on the track it would be transcendent.
What’s the front end between 2 cars? Cause 718 has macpherson and s2000 is double wishbone. Can u feel any difference in turn in ability?
Thank you for this - I very reluctantly let my 23 year old S2000 go and replaced it with a 718 Spyder last year. The Spyder is better is every way as it should be but I still miss the S2000 every day. I should never have let it go 😢
Request for the steering mods on Jeff’s Spyder! I own a 981 Boxster S as a daily driver / occasional track car (ND2 for serious track) and wanna see if the mods on the Spyder trickle down to the good ol S model. Great content btw!
He posted it in the description. Let me know if you have any questions.
Would curious of the same S2000 vs a 718 Boxster S/GTS
Why do you have to use the PDK shifter and not paddles? (serious questions, not being sarcastic) - I'm an AP1 guy for last 20 years 8)
718 spyder is the pinnacle of modern lightweight, drop top, sports car. I would still love to add the ap2 to the stable.
Ripping it! The search for the ultimate fun roadster
Previously owning an S2000 and now a C8 Vette, these cars are polar opposites in the power spectrum. Because of that, I now understand why both cars are fun in their own ways.
As much as I loved my S2000, I'm not sure I could go back to 240hp
Good call on keeping the top down on both cars, this is definitely my preferred way to enjoy any roadster. Reality Check: even if I had the skills and the power/handling to do so, I wouldn't be driving at the speeds you're hitting out on public roads. I do enjoy watching you tear it up out on the track though. The performance of the Porsche looked impressive for sure, but personally I would miss the 3rd pedal. For what it's worth, I've seen more than enough videos of S2K drivers that didn't have the ability to keep the car in their own lane out in the twisties - it is obvious that they didn't need any more power.
Can you link the video with the steering upgrades? Nice video!
ua-cam.com/video/5JrUiMFBK14/v-deo.html
I think that this video has me wanting to start out with an s2000 before hopping into a GT4
As you said, it's an "oddball comparison". The Porsche clearly benefits from twenty plus years of technological and engineering advancements, including a 6cyl 414 hp engine. On the other hand, when first introduced, the S2K AP1 was competitive with the Boxster, BMW, and Nissan 350, all 6 cylinders. You are obviously a much better than average driver who can take both of these vehicles to their limits and I respect that. But in truth, while they are both sporty convertibles I feel that's where the comparison should end. I've driven my AP1 for the past 12 years and despite the limitations it still brings a smile when I stretch her out. I also appreciate the fact it is super reliable and even an amateur mechanic like myself can change the plugs. Finally, I like the fact I could now get twice what I paid for her. Cheers
The AP1 handily beat the Boxster when first introduced? Hardly. For as much as it's worth, the Boxster came top in most comparison tests back in the day.
@@flat6croc For the sake of discussion I'll withdraw the "handily". Looking over my copies of Road and Track, Motor Trend and Car and Driver comparison test reports, let's just agree the S2K was competitive with the 1998 Boxster.
@@creightonsmith5333 I'm in the UK and it generally lost to the 986 Boxster in comparison tests on the basis of poor handling and steering. Which isn't to say that's a definitive view. Generally I'd say an early 986 is a better resolved driver's car. That's just an opinion, but I'd say it's certainly a stretch to suggest the S2000 was broadly seen as the better car.
@@flat6croc Poor handling? That's a very odd thing to say about the S2k, especially back when it was introduced.
@@gapplebees Not at all odd. At launch, the S2000 was widely reported to have fairly major handling issues. To quote Autocar magazine "Early cars were criticised for uncommunicative steering and tricky on-limit handling. Accordingly, in 2002 the suspension was tweaked." Obviously opinions will vary on how the car actually handles, but it's a fact that media reviews when the car was launched reported on poor handling.
Such an odd comparison!
But actually perfect for me! After attempting a second Emira test drive and not being able to (this time due to the demo car breaking down), I find myself considering other cars…
I’m now considering an AP2 or used GTS 2.5 PDK. Yeah I know the 4.0 is better but the savings is considerable. Plus, the 2.5 still has all the other perks the 4.0 has.
Ugh, I’m really stuck!
I have a 981 Spyder and live at 6500’ altitude. I think the turbo might be a better choice because I lose about 20% power and a turbo just a has a bit more lag but no power loss.
Like your thinking. Good tuning potential on the turbo….
I test drove the emira and still enjoy my 987 cayman s more which makes me feel kinda crazy
@@ShaanNotShawn really?? Care to share more? I’ve missed out on 2 Emira test drives so I’m living vicariously through others. How did it compare/contrast with your 987?
@@dabjabar I am aware this might sound dumb haha.
So yeah we were ready to put money down on the car if I was blown away by it but, it just didn't.
I think this came down to a few realizations.
Emira styling looks really nice and exotic, but its still not a porsche, or ferarri, mclarren, idk felt like its trying to be something it isn't(kinda feel the same about c8 styling). The test car was even the spec I wanted. Blue with yellow calipers.
I think vs the flat 6 engine(I also have a carnewal GT exhaust mod) the v6 sounds much more tame in comparison. Maybe with an aftermarket exhaust it will sound much better. But revving it out didn't sound nearly as dramatic, and it happens fast with 400hp.
Emira is a better car in the sense that it will eat corners like its nothing and get through a road way more quickly. In the 987s the steering is heavy when loaded up, and more feeling of the curve is transferred to my hands. I guess I thought with the hydraulic steering it would feel similar.
Overall Emira is the better car in speed, acceleration, handling etc but at low speeds I actually have more fun in the cayman just because the Emira was too capable during the test drive. Maybe I would need to be pushing it at 7/10s+ of its ability to appreciate it more. And for that reason, knowing my local roads, 90% of the time the emira would actually be a downgrade for me, for 4-5x the price of my cayman S
Great video. How would you rank this Spyder against your favourite GT3s?
In my ZPI ranking, this Spyder came in half a point below the 991.2 GT3 manual purely because the engine isn't as special.
Spyder is better than GT3. I say that as an owner of both.
Lotus Elise vs spyder? For overall steering feel and driving experience?
Elise is unmatched in steering feel and it's razor sharp on a canyon road, but the Spyder is a more enjoyable road car in 90% of situations.
Is this by Livermore?
The spyder looks tall and really built up at the back when you're sat in it. I imagine that hurts the convertible feeling a lot. Is there any rear visibility?
More than likely this is the result of modern regulations, which have changed quite a bit over the years. As an example, this is also noticeable when you look at photos of the NA vs ND Miata shot from the rear. By comparison, the latest version of the car looks like it was placed in a large trash compacter and scrunched upward. Can't really blame it on the designers as they have to work within the rules they face at any given time.
Rear visibility is good. I used to own a 718 Spyder
I'm bias in that I'm a sucker for the underdog, and a more analog driving experience that's unmolested by electronic enhancements. That said, Porsche does an amazing job at delivering the "razor's edge persuasion" you describe. For me, there is no greater satisfaction than building an underdog that is a giant killer. Out performing a sports car that's 4X the price is winning on a whole other level. Do it once and you're addicted, so be forewarned.
Then get a 986?
@@ldgvh7210 yea better not, if you want to build, the S2000 platform has much more potential, a better base and especially a huge aftermarket + it's reliable and easy to work on. And handles boost on stock engine very well etc. etc.
The simpler design of the S2000 makes it more of an honest, raw driving experience. This was a great comparison video, though I'd like to see a pure stock version of each car compared. The Porche would still have 22 years of technological refinement in it's favor, but I think the comparison would be closer.
Love your videos mate! I own a Spyder and I use it as it deserves... Can I ask a question: why would you turn the TC+ESP off in someone else's car for some road driving? Is it really worth the risk? You're not powersliding, so... Why? Just curious as I don't feel that need. Cheers from Italy and keep up the good work.
I might not be doing big slides but I do enjoy feeling the car move around a bit. Some TC/ESC systems are overly intrusive and cut power too aggressively.
Love the Honda S2000
Been an S2000 Owner for 5 Years now have daily driver it. And The Porsche 718 Spyder is definitely going to be the replacement one day.
The Honda S2000 was the everyman's toy that could pull daily driver duties if need be. A shame they discontinued it rather than develop it further after maybe taking a breather. Mazda's modernized MX-5 is good but more competition in this price range is always beneficial
Didn’t realise the S2000 was so heavy it feels like you’re in a an empty can of four loco when you start the engine.
Lol that's a pretty accurate description TBH
When are you going to compare Porsche GT4 RS with a Miata, I can’t wait for that video!!
Why bother? Miata Is Always The Answer
Disagree on the s2000 has the best manual transmission ever built. What about the second gear syncros?
Add some boost like 300 more to the s2000 and itll rock that porsche. i have about 650 in mine 285 18x11 square and its a totally different car
13:54 Did you forget ? Lol
Man I need a porche question is will an older cayman s do the trick 🤔
it definitly will! Just leave some money aside for the repairs and the cylinder linings etc.
Cayman S is a great car, but maintenance is a pain
@@Zygrene appreciate the insight, which would model would you recommend for around 50-60k range
@@Erkkremlinklum981. But if it must be a 987 get the dot 2. And beef up that AOS and water bottle from the start. Those failing on track will be expensive. I had that issue and if you see when zygrene has his cayman he has the same as well. Promptly sold his shortly after fixing it
@@CubanDre good to know man thanks 👍🏻
Hey guys, don't bash each other. If you like te S2000, ok? If you like the Porsche, also ok. It's a comparison, both cars are great, they have there own 'market', so it's OK; I have one of the 2, and I love it. No need yo say more ....
Better comparison would have been a 981 Spyder. Sounds much better than the 718 and 300lbs lighter.
You are driving 2 of the best driver’s car lol
Just watched this video again. Why not compare the Porsche with a McLaren?
718 Spyder is the best sports car ever made.
You need to drive a 124 Spider.
He's already driven a Miata. Same thing
124 Spider sounds fun but haven't found one to review
@@Unicornpirate powertrain is completely different
as a former S2000 owner and current 981 GT4 owner the GT4/spyder just does everything on 11 but IMO its not $80k better. a 981 Spyder would have been a better comparison since it only came with a manual, has a shorter ratio steering rack (than the GT4 and newer Sypder) and has the 3.8l flat 6.
Agreed the 981 Spyder is a better comparison, it’s also 300lbs lighter than the 718.
Reviewing moded cars is always problematic. And two cars that far apart in age are apples and oranges, especially if comparing cost. But thanks for the video.
Slowly turning to Porsche stan, but honestly there making the best cars around just not friendly for the wallet.
S2000 is very reliable, unlike the Porsche
The S2000 steering feel really is a shame. I wish there was an equivalent to the S2K with good steering. AFAIK the only option is a k swapped Miata. Porsche limits are too high and doesn’t rev as high.
Gt4Rs or Spyder rs then
The steering really is a shame, but the car still gives enough feedback over the chassis to even it out, especially with bucket seats. Steering can be improved and it's not too expensive
@@porschegt2346 haha as if anyone can buy them xD, i've driven shotgun on a GT4 RS and it's a monster, almost a real racecar with number plates but it costs 10x the amount of a S2000 IF porsche is willing to sell you one because here they will only sell cars like that to people who have some Porsche history or are willing to take it to the track ...
@@binskee677 what can be done to improve the steering? Bushings?
@@TT92348 the easiest fix is to buy a Elise :) jokes aside, i would start with a decent alignment, a square setup helps a lot imo. Try out removing the EPS fuse. Then suspension and rack bushings helps but can also be too much for some. If the car is lowered, make sure to do all the roll center corrections/bump steer spacer/ diff spaceres). What helped me was swapping out the stock stering wheel with a smaller radius Momo wheel (320mm instead 350mm). Then there are more extreme measures like swapping the rack, doable but not so easy, the FD RX7 rack goes in i think, but you have to figure out the hydrolics etc.
I mean compared to a hydrolic steering the S2000's steering is bad but for a electronic steering it's actually very good and is a improved version of what was in the NSX.
AnguS2000
I see what you did there 😉. Nicely done!
Poor s2000 it looks beat lol 😂
It does. Before the video, the front took on a random freeway debris. Basically unavoidable (or I could try to dodge it and risk hitting the car on the next lane). The car does have new OEM panels on the way and a few bonus upgrades on the way as well.
718 period,,,, just no comparison............
just for the automatic transmission......NO and NO
How can you even think tmyou can compare an s2000 to a porsche' 718? It just doesn't make sense. The price is way tooooo different. That means a lot. Can be only taken as a joke.
it's the whole point of this channel haha he compares everything to the s2000 if it makes sense or not, it's entertainment for S2000 fanboys ;)
@@binskee677 ops.. i did not know . Then i am sorry.
@@lucianolucidi8624 haha no worries :)
The S2000 is NOT a car that you drive like a soccer mom with the hands at 10 & 2... Come on bro, ... Embarrassing!
s2k wins in the sound dept.
i have an S2000 and no the Spyder sound muuuuuuuch better even in stock form (without OPF)
@@binskee677 Sounds like you need a new car. I have a flat six cayman, shall we swap?
@@hammychan1 no thanks i would only swap with the spyder or the GT4, regarding the rest yea, the S2k with an exhaust like mine sounds better!
@@binskee677 Damn, you just missed out on a Gt4, too bad bro
@@hammychan1 man i said i would swap it for a GT4 ... give me that GT4 i'll send you the S with 20k worth of sweet and rare parts partially sourced directly from Japan and a built NA engine with around 265hp to the wheels instantly! haha (i will regret it in th end though but whatever haha i would do it!)
Boxsters of all generations will absolutely shit all over an S2000, you can't compare a front engined jap roadster to what is essentially a mid engine continuation of the spirit of the 911 in the 60's. The only downside is the maintenance costs associated with the mid engine configuration...
the S2000 is mid engined too ... literally proven that you don't know anything about this jap roadster ... prejudices won't help you much in life ;)
And yet I’d still get the S2000 because it’s cooler 😎 n u don’t see them much like Porsche’s
The S2000 shit on the Boxster in the 2000s. You owe much of the growth of the Boxster in the earlier years to the S2000. Go look at some of the early reviews. The Boxster had a a pathetic 200hp motor. It wasn't until a Boxster S came out that it started to be able to keep up at all with the S2000...for a ton more money. By the way, the S2000 may be front engine but it’s a front mid. Honda threw all kinds of Motorsport technology at it.
@@trletts and the design and interior was really ugly in the Boxster.
@@binskee677 Front-midship is not the same as a true mid-engine car, like a Boxster, where the driver sits forward of the engine. Yes, you have a lower polar moment, similar to an MR, but the weight balance front to rear is completely different (around 50-50 for FM, compared to around 45-55 for MR). It's kinda funny that S2k tryhards want to make this claim. You never hear this type of thing from Miata, RX-7, or Nissan FM (350z, G35, etc) drivers, which have the exact same arrangement (front-engine behind the front axle) as the S2k.