_"What's important is not standing by and allowing someone to suffer or die because you do nothing! If you don't get that, then you don't get the first thing about being Spider-Man!"_
The reason 90s Spider-Man wasn't in the movie was because he would point out "Canon Events" are bullshit because he literally met a Spider-Man where everything went right for him, a world where uncle Ben is alive, Jameson likes him and he is married to Gwen Stacy, where he was a bit of a dick especifically because he lacked any big transformative event.
90s yes, but 616 was likely not invited because he raveled his universe by making deals with the devil. Not to mention he started the notion of Peter's life always being miserable.
@@fenrirsrage4609 that or do what Hobbie did or even go as far as proving him wrong to the whole society. That’s what you expect from Otto specifically.
I think 616 Spider-Man would be pissed and ready to attack Miguel once he told him about the Canon Events. He had been suffering ever since one more day, him losing his wife and kid thanks to the Devil, MJ left Peter for Paul, got nerfed so badly he had to beg, Gwen died and came back to judge him, everyone he knows started HATING HIM FOR NO GODDAMN REASON! That man has every right to be pissed.
Maybe because his universe was designed to be tied to the multiverse? Everything that happened to make him spider-man was outside of his control. He didn’t do anything to make the spider leave its universe. He didn't make it bite him. He didn't even create the collider. As a matter of fact, I'd bet eating my hat on universe collapse happening because of Collider/similar devices catastrophically failing in those universes
Since Christopher Daniel Barnes' Spider-Man was the first Spider-Man to defeat the Spot, he should be in Beyond The Spider-Verse for that reason alone.
His Spot wasn’t exactly evil. What he should be in the movies for is that he freaking discovered the Spiderverse. I dunno why he’s not the leader after that.
90s peter was cheesey but man he had some good wisdom and liners sometimes. My favorite was when Doctor Octopus told Peter that a he should learn a perk of power is to break promises to get what you want. And Peter claps back with "Im no longer your student, and theres nothing more you can teach me"
90s spiderman is the best spiderman. He shows empathy, and logic. Both of which 2099 has the least of. 90s spiderman was on point. Miles universe was not in danger. 2099 switched places with his alternate self something miles never did.
@@antyepHe already admitted to that though? He even says him messing with that world's canon is what caused it to vanish, that's why he's so adamant on no one else doing what he did. There's a good chance he's wrong about all this but after seeing what happened, he just doesn't want to take another chance. I don't know where all these "he's actually plotting something evil" ideas came from...
@@antyep Why would he need to say any of that? Miguel says what happened, that watched his other self with his family and only stepped in once he died. Now could he have gone into more detail? Sure, but why would he? He was giving Miles an explanation for the Spider-verse and canon events, not an hour long life story. He said only what he thought was essential. Miguel causing his alternate self to die? That's an assumption that makes him out to be some irreedemable killer, it's highly unlikely given the information we have.
@@megablueflash1816 if this assumption is true and that would make him seem like a irredeemable killer…why would he WANT to mention that detail? Now, this won’t reflect the original Miguel from the comics who is almost worthy to wield Mjölnir. Do you think the Miquel of this movie is worthy?
This is why Peter 1, 2 and 3 ARE NOT in this movie. They would absolutely throw hands with not just Miguel and his crew, but Miles' "friends" too. And it would be a DESERVED beating.
@@UndeadSlayer5 Andrew in particular. He would absolutely NOT fcking stand for the notion that Spider-Man is MEANT to suffer after what he went through.
MANNN I hope that christopher daniel barnes’ spider-man shows up in a prominent role in spiderverse 3, he’s one of the most important spider-men kinda like, ever.
@@proxywolf2006you are right which is why in the spider-girl comics. Peter gets hurt and it’s her cannon event. She takes the mantle from her dad and that universe only has one “spider-man”
The funny thing is, it's literally not Miles' fault. It's Spot's for opening up the wormhole in the first place. He's taking it out on the wrong person and in the worst way.
@@NicoBlack69 Well Miles did save the world but he didn't turn off the machine correctly and if he did turned it off correctly Spot wouldn't been created so in turn Miles still saved the Multiverse from Kingpin but created a Villain even worse
YOU'RE PATHETIC! So that's it? You're afraid to fail - AGAIN?! TOUGH! I've lost more times than i've won, and every damn time i got back up! That's all that matters! When victory is easy, it's cheap! Every fight that's ever been worth fighting has been against adversity! Against a so-called "unbeatable" foe! But there is no such thing! Every enemy has a weakness! You just have to find it! Once! You just have to win ONE TIME! We all have feet of clay. We all fall down. But in us is the spirit! It's not the powers of the SPIDER that makes any of us who we are! It's the will of MAN! So get up! Get up and fight! (c) even Otto Octavius as Spider-Man had more resolve that ASV Miguel
THE 2 SPIDERMEN WHO INSTANTLY CAME TO MY HEAD WHEN I HEARD THE STUPID ARGUMENT/LOGIC MIGUEL HAD Thank you so much for doing this, my biggest issue with that sequel was how nobody, be it Peter or others didn't think of anything to refute him, I just couldn't believe it.
Most of them either know what's wrong and are ready to switch teams once everything goes south like Hobbie, or Miguel most likely plays on their vulnerable cords like he did with Gwen
@@wukongisas9564 I honestly doubt he's "playing on their cords" - it's made quite clear in ATSV, that Miguel and the Spider-Society doesn't actually know how this works - they are basing all their knowledge on an isolated case, that Miguel caused and has nothing but theories to back up. They probably just think it makes sense cosnidering the knowledge they have so far.
It sucks honestly, considering with the inclusion of Insomniac Peter, would imply the rest of the Video Game Peters in some capacity exist, Including the Shattered Dimension/Edge of Time cast, and with that they've already made a similar idea in EOT With Peter getting on Miguel's ass for not wanting to save MJ because "There'd be no Time" and all that extra stuff.
@@JetSetWave thank you so much for bringing up this to the table, as soon as they showed PS4 Peter I paused it and just had that mental breakdown over edge of time spiderman, they didn't put his version in this movie precisely because of this, maybe he will be on Miles team in the sequel
@@antyepHe's probably spying on Miguel for Hobie. Because let's be real that's exactly what spectacular would do and we all know Hobie can build an underground revolution, he just needs an inside man to feed Intel.
@@epicfights7898why do you think most of them would side with Miguel? Realistically speaking Seeonaga is right, a lot of the people would very much be against the whole "You can't save everybody." Thing. They did this similar premise in Spider-Man : Edge of Time, where Peter chastised Miguel for hesitating to take a detour to save MJ, and that he didn't know the first thing about being Spider-Man.
@@JetSetWaveI think you're forgetting that Miguel tried that first, just like every Peter would do. They did try to stop the Incursions while keeping their loved ones and it apparently failed every time. After a while, you come to understand that they just don't have that answer. Miles is being naive, and rightfully so. He's the newbie. Spiderman has always been about sacrifice. This is why he'll sacrifice his relationships, his successes and damn near everything he has to protect the city. He knows better than anyone that sometimes they genuinely can't save everybody. It isn't OOC for the Spiders to accept that they can't save everybody, especially since every member is implied to have gotten their 'Gwen Stacy moment' except Miles and Gwen. They wouldn't be happy with Miguel and they'd be nagging him all the way, but what Miles is doing is selfish. The movie is probably gonna make Miles right because he's the protagonist but what he's doing is risking billions of lives on a whim because he doesn't understand shit, unlike the others who've experienced the failures. This is basically just like NWH and Strange as the antagonist, where we then see Holland's Peter having to come to terms with the same lesson of falling to save everyone. TL;DR: I don't think the Spiders would disagree with Miguel, I think they'd agree while understanding where Miles is coming from. At the end of the day, it's 1 Vs trillions, and Pete or no Pete, a Spidey is gonna take that sacrifice and then proceed to hate themselves.
@@javaughndouglas3641 you're correct and yes that is true about Miles and everything else. I was just mainly referring to most of the Spider-Men completely being against Miguel's train of thought.
Miguel O'Hara: Come on Spider-man from 1048, support me Spider-man (Insomniac): I didn't sacrifice May because I wanted to, it was my only option to save NY, Miles can still save his father.
Miguel O'Hara: "And I'm literally arguing to make a sacrifice because it's the only option as well, and not for no fucking reason at all or hurr durr cause fate. Are the Miguel haters that blinded by their feelings that they can't tell the similarities or listen to the exact logic I give them?!" Seriously, Miguel's logic is sound, if he feels they don't have another safe way or that it would fucking risk universal destruction that kills trillions AGAIN, if they try to test it, then allowing Canon Events to happen because it is the safest bet is literally a sound and moral assessment and not argued for no fucking reason. Utilitarian, logical, focusing on worst-case scenario and options that benefit others and the most ppl, over the few and personal stakes/ one's ego. Miguel's logic is fucking moral and reasonable as fuck and some ppl hate so hard that they twist it into some evil hidden agenda. I slowly lose faith in humanity every time I see it. Seriously.
If we're bringing in 90s Spider-Man, can we bring in 90s Spider-Man 2099? Y'know, the one who would go on to unite humanity as a civilian leader, and even be worthy to lift Mjölnir?
I don't think it's a coincidence that, in the entire Spider Society, there is only one Miguel. I think he keeps it that way on purpose because he knows the one person who can talk him out of it the most and could see through his bs the most would be himself.
That's why I think the Spectacular Spider-man we see in Across the Spider-Verse is a variant because the real Spectacular would never agree with Miguel.
@@MegaHeaf thats probably a version who JUST lost Gwen and/or George, so he's easily manipulated. There was this hypothetical season 3 I seen where he faced the Spot, allowing him to save George, but the new timeline was unstable, forcing him to go back and undo the changes. Maybe that's why he sides with Miguel. I know, not official, but still...
Yes! This is exactly how this would play out. If anyone could tell Miguel how full of it he is, and a reeeeeeally good point was brought up here, it's the guy that has saved the multiverse, lost and found his girlfriend again, and gone through a whoooooole lot of crap!
I think they should've added a scene like this in the final movie, but maybe that would've been a little bit of a spoiler for the reveal. Maybe they can bring back 90's Spider-Man in Beyond the Spider-Verse
My head canon is that 90s Spidey WAS part of the spider society, but got kicked out for speaking his mind. That’s why there’s no references to him when almost everything else is referenced even the most unknown stuff. We know Miguel isn’t above excluding people (MCU Peter for example), and I believe that’s why Andrew and Tobey aren’t part of it either, because he knows they’d never go along with Jeff dying
Technically I don't think it just a case of that unlimited is technically the same person of 90s and the 90s song of it was playing so he technically canonically canon to the 90s
Well technically he could be the same or an alternative variant of the 90s as the theme song form the 90 s was playing in that show in the first episode
I actually believe we see the spider bite from Spider-Man the Animated Series but it's only showing his hand. I do think 90s Spider-Man was a part of this society but was fired. Why would Miguel show footage of universes with Spider-Men that he hasn't recruited unless he knows they would not agree with him. I know someone who created Spectacular along with Josh Keaton thought Spectacular wouldn't agree with Miguel and that creator said it could be a variant. And maybe that is the case with there being 2 or 3 Spider-Man Unlimited's shown.
@@Suii2008Spider-Man Unlimited and the 90s show are definitely not the same universe. Because in Unlimited I think Venom and Carnage are brothers while the 90s show has them as father and son. And just because Unlimited had a scene with the 90s theme doesn't mean they're the same as we saw with the MCU having the 90s X-Men theme and earth 838 having the X-Men theme. I do think your theory about Unlimited being a variant of 90s could be correct. Not trying to be rude, just saying what I think.
He was Probably kicked by Miguel from the "Spiderverse", But he Has His own group of Spidermans thanks to Madam Web, So thats not a big problem At all, He probably dont even Know what is Happening with miles XD
Hoenstly, I don't blame this version of Miguel (Yes I say "this version" because Edge of Time and Shattered Dimensions Miguel exist (also Ultimate Spider-Man Miguel)) for giving up the Spider-Man code. He watched a variant of his world and family collapse and vanished before his very eyes, so his depressed view of the multiverse and canon events are reasonable. But that doesn't make him right.
0:58 It was funny hearing that coming from 90's spider-man when his voice actor actually voiced miguel in Edge of Time and got that same lecture from Josh Keaton's spidey, lol
He's got Miguel dead to rights here; if what happened on Miguel's world happened everywhere when canon is disrupted, then Earth 42 would have vanished long before Myles got there. There's definitely something Miguel isnt telling the other Spidermen.
This is actually so damn true and should've been used hopefully they'll do something similar in beyond the Spider-Verse. Spider-Man is always supposed to do the right thing never stand by and just let bad things no matter what.
@@milesbradshaw6643not necessarily. An antagonist is someone who opposes the protagonist but they’re not evil. Miguel wants to make sure history doesn’t repeat itself and another world is erased by the distribution of canon events. Miles wants to save every world and everyone. They both have good intentions but how they go about it differs and they don’t agree with each other.
@@MidnightShadowStrikerwhat he means is we don't like the only mainstream version of him atm being depicted like this, for someone that likes the charactee in the comics, seeing the fandom on mass saying he doesn't deserve to be spider-man is descouraging.
@@Mr.Maguro that I understand and I agree. I know a little about Miguel before this movie and it’s kinda sad to see so many ppl misunderstand him and pin him as the bad guy
Damn 90s is really calling him out on his logic and is even putting him into a corner that he can’t even say anything and like how he quoted edge of time spider man
I got the fortune cookie reference lol. Please tell me this is setting up an EoT Miguel and ATSV Miguel showdown, complete with a joke about how EoT's voice sounds like "That Preachy Do Gooder Animated Series Spider-Man."
Funny how if the 90s spiderman would have had madamweb to show Miguel hes wrong and that hes right. But also remember that theres a spiderman that got everything they would ever want, ubcle ben is alive, is dating gwen and is an owner if a great company. Miguel seems to have cherry picked the spiders that fit his idea
I agree being spider man do not mean let somebody die I think Miguel need to understand that I do not think he have the right to call him self spider man
@@animeking1357 In spiderman the animated series the sensors would never let spiderman punch anyone so he could only wrestle and kick. Dont ask me why Batman got away with punching joker silly in his show.
the Unique Spider-Man, Whose Sony does not have the Rights to because he belongs to the Universe of the X-Men Animated Series, The Spider-man from the 90s, and also the only one who didn't appear in the Spider-verse due to a Blessing.
I only have one question….WHY WASN’T 90s SPIDERMAN IN THE MOVIE!? I’m serious it’s been annoying me since the Miles Morales films started. I understand that Disney or Sony or whoever may not want him there but if you’re doing X-Men 97 at least throw us a bone!
I understand Miguel not taking the risk cuz of one person as he is traumatized and it's not his mindset but cmon anyone of those peters could have experimented and actively helped miles out themselves to prove Miguel may have not been completely correct, Peter are smart enough
Fr Miguel is kind of arrogant in the comics but he is way closer to being Spider-Man imo, he still bust his ass to save whole timeline and he is funnier
If Edge of Time Miguel (literally voiced by 90s Spidey) came in and kicked SV Miguel around for not getting Spider-Man, then Across becomes 10/10 to me. Otherwise, it'll be a 8 or 9 and say they should've used Superior Spidey instead.
@@dylansharp8471 How can uncle Ben's and Stacy's deaths be canon events if Iron Spider is married to Gwen Stacy and his uncle Ben is alive and well in his timeline? Tobey's Gwen is alive, we can assume Tom's is too. So that basically shows that "canon events" are bogus that the movie used to force you to sympathize with O'Hara (who himself is a bastardized version of the character already). And if you're asking about 90's Spiderverse then it's because the whole idea of multiple Spider-Men was introduced in the 90's animated series where the point was to show that Peter grew through the series.
@@dylansharp8471I have the theory that both Miguel and Miles are right and wrong about the Canon Events at the same time. All the examples you did was done by the same people of the same universe, it was Tobey's Peter who saved his Gwen Stacy. It was the 90s rich Peter who catche the thief and let Ben alive. But in the otherhand, Miguel O'Hara disrupt a canon event by intervining in an universe that wasn't his. It would be way different if instead of Tobey's Peter saving Gwen Stacy a portal appear and Andrew's Peter saved her instead. This theory was futher confirmed after George Stacy of Earth-65 quit form being a police officer it was HIS decicion inspired by HIS Gwen. We can still have INDIRECT outside help. Such as Miles Morales helping Peter B. Parker to become a dad or Gwen's departoure to his universe make George Stacy to quit his job. If Miles wanted to help Pavitr he could focus on the bus and let Pavitr just focus to save Inspector Singh since that wouldn't mess with the Canon. I think that Gwen discovered that and that Miguel qould discover that too. Making saving Jefferson Davis' all in Miles' shoulders now.
_"What's important is not standing by and allowing someone to suffer or die because you do nothing! If you don't get that, then you don't get the first thing about being Spider-Man!"_
☝🏿-Peter Parker(Edge of Time)
*Spider-Man
And that's what I call a reference
@@darkarrow3683/comic Peter since his bio is 616 Spider-Man
@@kingjoker8399I mean he is 616 Spidey. Also he’s Josh Keaton so yeah, even more Spectacular.
90s Spider man is actually speaking facts
They will soon see those facts be speaketh in BTSV
That’s exactly what I’ve been saying ever since the movie came out
Indeed he is
90’s is the og and he is 100 percent right
Ture he was making facts
The reason 90s Spider-Man wasn't in the movie was because he would point out "Canon Events" are bullshit because he literally met a Spider-Man where everything went right for him, a world where uncle Ben is alive, Jameson likes him and he is married to Gwen Stacy, where he was a bit of a dick especifically because he lacked any big transformative event.
Yeah, that's one of the biggest counters against the "Canon Events" situation. He, like you said, met the Spider-Man from where everything went right.
And this is why 90’s and likely 616 Prime Peter Parker never joined the society, because they’d call Miguel out
90s yes, but 616 was likely not invited because he raveled his universe by making deals with the devil. Not to mention he started the notion of Peter's life always being miserable.
@@antyep ok yeah I can see that.
Honestly yeah i def feel like Miguel chose to not go after certain Spider-men because he has a feeling they wouldn't join his Society.
@@fenrirsrage4609 that or do what Hobbie did or even go as far as proving him wrong to the whole society. That’s what you expect from Otto specifically.
I think 616 Spider-Man would be pissed and ready to attack Miguel once he told him about the Canon Events. He had been suffering ever since one more day, him losing his wife and kid thanks to the Devil, MJ left Peter for Paul, got nerfed so badly he had to beg, Gwen died and came back to judge him, everyone he knows started HATING HIM FOR NO GODDAMN REASON!
That man has every right to be pissed.
It’s funny because 90’s Spidey is the voice of Miguel in Edge of Time. So he’s talking to
Himself
And he is also the voice of spiderman noir in shattered dimensions I think.
90’s Spider-Man’s actually speaking the truth. If Miles is an anomaly, why HASNT his universe fallen apart?
Maybe because his universe was designed to be tied to the multiverse? Everything that happened to make him spider-man was outside of his control. He didn’t do anything to make the spider leave its universe. He didn't make it bite him. He didn't even create the collider.
As a matter of fact, I'd bet eating my hat on universe collapse happening because of Collider/similar devices catastrophically failing in those universes
Since Christopher Daniel Barnes' Spider-Man was the first Spider-Man to defeat the Spot, he should be in Beyond The Spider-Verse for that reason alone.
His Spot wasn’t exactly evil. What he should be in the movies for is that he freaking discovered the Spiderverse. I dunno why he’s not the leader after that.
That's why he wasn't in the movie cause he'll speak facts and logic to Miguel and the story would've ended much quicker
Nah it wouldnt cuz Miguel wouldn't listen. But TAS would side with Gwen to help Miles.
@@antyepMiguel definitely would listen, because he’s a traumatized man who needs help to wake up.
To be fair, by that logic, neither would Spectacular. But hey, he’s still there
90s peter was cheesey but man he had some good wisdom and liners sometimes. My favorite was when Doctor Octopus told Peter that a he should learn a perk of power is to break promises to get what you want. And Peter claps back with "Im no longer your student, and theres nothing more you can teach me"
90s spiderman is the best spiderman. He shows empathy, and logic.
Both of which 2099 has the least of. 90s spiderman was on point. Miles universe was not in danger. 2099 switched places with his alternate self something miles never did.
Kingpin did the same thing in Miles universe! Miguel, why are you doing a Scarlet Witch?
"Where'd you get that? A fortune cookie?"
"From my uncle."
💀
Oooooooo, that would've been clean
I think Miguel's just too scared to admit he might be WRONG
I think he's just using Miles to cover up his crimes. He tried to steal the life of another Miguel which is likely why that universe got destroyed.
@@antyepHe already admitted to that though? He even says him messing with that world's canon is what caused it to vanish, that's why he's so adamant on no one else doing what he did.
There's a good chance he's wrong about all this but after seeing what happened, he just doesn't want to take another chance. I don't know where all these "he's actually plotting something evil" ideas came from...
@@megablueflash1816 yeah but he left out a lot of specifics. Did he even cause that Miguel to die? Was he even a Spider-Man?
@@antyep Why would he need to say any of that? Miguel says what happened, that watched his other self with his family and only stepped in once he died.
Now could he have gone into more detail? Sure, but why would he? He was giving Miles an explanation for the Spider-verse and canon events, not an hour long life story. He said only what he thought was essential.
Miguel causing his alternate self to die? That's an assumption that makes him out to be some irreedemable killer, it's highly unlikely given the information we have.
@@megablueflash1816 if this assumption is true and that would make him seem like a irredeemable killer…why would he WANT to mention that detail?
Now, this won’t reflect the original Miguel from the comics who is almost worthy to wield Mjölnir. Do you think the Miquel of this movie is worthy?
This is why Peter 1, 2 and 3 ARE NOT in this movie. They would absolutely throw hands with not just Miguel and his crew, but Miles' "friends" too. And it would be a DESERVED beating.
Given how Miguel called Peter 1 a little nerd, I think he would WANT to mop Miguel for both the insult and the fact that it’s all wrong
Yeah they would’ve taken them all down. They would see the bullshit for what it is.
I bet Andrew Garfield and Toby would have been pissed
@@UndeadSlayer5 Andrew in particular. He would absolutely NOT fcking stand for the notion that Spider-Man is MEANT to suffer after what he went through.
@@TheRibottoStudios imagine a spiderverse civil war
The 90s Spider-Man brings a good point about it to be Spider-Man way.
And the fact Miles has been Spider Man for a year
MANNN I hope that christopher daniel barnes’ spider-man shows up in a prominent role in spiderverse 3, he’s one of the most important spider-men kinda like, ever.
Now, can't wait for Miguel to hear words from the OG Madame Web (not the copycat from this year)...
but she is hot
@@JeffreyDahmerTheGoat but she is boring
We don’t talk about that film.
@@MMZERO9 I know, that's why I said it's a copycat (rip-off).
This conversation got me thinking too. Miguel said miles is the first anomaly yet. How come his reality is not falling apart? 🤔
Heres another question, if peters daughter only existed because of miles than isnt she herself also an anomaly?
Also to answer your question, i think if theres too many anomaly changes than everything begins to fall apart
It's a common theory that by losing his own uncle, Miles more or less corrected being an anomaly.
@@proxywolf2006you are right which is why in the spider-girl comics. Peter gets hurt and it’s her cannon event. She takes the mantle from her dad and that universe only has one “spider-man”
90s Peter would have thrown hands at the “fortune cookie” comment!
He would have done more than thrown hands he would've folded miguel's clothes with him still in them
Except 90's Spiderman was forbidden from punching
@@jonnyjonjo😂😂😂Gotdang
The Spider Society should be thankful that 90s Spider-Man took off the black suit, Miguel would be cooked
90’s Spider-Man will always be the best Spider-Man.
Amen to that
Standby for triggered SSM 'fans'.
@@AndreNitroX
Nice 👌
You know... i never thought about it but he is right on another level:
A spiderman who starts ignoring the little guy is kind of a shit spiderman
The funny thing is, it's literally not Miles' fault. It's Spot's for opening up the wormhole in the first place. He's taking it out on the wrong person and in the worst way.
@@NicoBlack69 Though Miles created the Spot to begin with but yes
@@shaneokeley825 did Miles tell him to build the machine?
@@NicoBlack69 No it's because Miles blew up the machine at the end of his final battle with Kingpin and Spot was infused with it's energy source
@@shaneokeley825 so because "Spot" didn't have a fuckin spine, it's Miles' fault? For saving the world?
@@NicoBlack69 Well Miles did save the world but he didn't turn off the machine correctly and if he did turned it off correctly Spot wouldn't been created so in turn Miles still saved the Multiverse from Kingpin but created a Villain even worse
YOU'RE PATHETIC! So that's it? You're afraid to fail - AGAIN?! TOUGH! I've lost more times than i've won, and every damn time i got back up! That's all that matters! When victory is easy, it's cheap! Every fight that's ever been worth fighting has been against adversity! Against a so-called "unbeatable" foe! But there is no such thing! Every enemy has a weakness! You just have to find it! Once! You just have to win ONE TIME!
We all have feet of clay. We all fall down. But in us is the spirit! It's not the powers of the SPIDER that makes any of us who we are! It's the will of MAN! So get up! Get up and fight! (c) even Otto Octavius as Spider-Man had more resolve that ASV Miguel
THE 2 SPIDERMEN WHO INSTANTLY CAME TO MY HEAD WHEN I HEARD THE STUPID ARGUMENT/LOGIC MIGUEL HAD
Thank you so much for doing this, my biggest issue with that sequel was how nobody, be it Peter or others didn't think of anything to refute him, I just couldn't believe it.
Most of them either know what's wrong and are ready to switch teams once everything goes south like Hobbie, or Miguel most likely plays on their vulnerable cords like he did with Gwen
@@wukongisas9564
I honestly doubt he's "playing on their cords" - it's made quite clear in ATSV, that Miguel and the Spider-Society doesn't actually know how this works - they are basing all their knowledge on an isolated case, that Miguel caused and has nothing but theories to back up.
They probably just think it makes sense cosnidering the knowledge they have so far.
It sucks honestly, considering with the inclusion of Insomniac Peter, would imply the rest of the Video Game Peters in some capacity exist, Including the Shattered Dimension/Edge of Time cast, and with that they've already made a similar idea in EOT
With Peter getting on Miguel's ass for not wanting to save MJ because "There'd be no Time" and all that extra stuff.
@@JetSetWave thank you so much for bringing up this to the table, as soon as they showed PS4 Peter I paused it and just had that mental breakdown over edge of time spiderman, they didn't put his version in this movie precisely because of this, maybe he will be on Miles team in the sequel
Bro PLEASE Sony, make 90’s spider man join Miles’s side
FRIGGIN make Spectacular join his side! Total BS he didn't, despite whatever happened to him that made him do otherwise.
@@antyepHe's probably spying on Miguel for Hobie. Because let's be real that's exactly what spectacular would do and we all know Hobie can build an underground revolution, he just needs an inside man to feed Intel.
@@Smashboi76 I hope so. A lot of people are angry at how he’s portrayed
@@antyep what I suggested does make sense for spectacular, let's hope it's what's actually going on
@@Smashboi76 given the crap with what’s happening with Sony, I hope so.
It's true that Spider-Man can't save everyone but that doesn't give you an excuse to not even be willing to try.
It would be a real treat if they had Barnes’s Spider-Man be one of the main characters in beyond the spider verse
Edge of time miguel: ight seriously, how can he be one of my variants
In reality, a very large portion of the spider society would 100% be against Miguel and would definitely help Miles.
*side with Miguel :)
@@epicfights7898why do you think most of them would side with Miguel?
Realistically speaking Seeonaga is right, a lot of the people would very much be against the whole "You can't save everybody." Thing.
They did this similar premise in Spider-Man : Edge of Time, where Peter chastised Miguel for hesitating to take a detour to save MJ, and that he didn't know the first thing about being Spider-Man.
@@JetSetWaveI think you're forgetting that Miguel tried that first, just like every Peter would do. They did try to stop the Incursions while keeping their loved ones and it apparently failed every time. After a while, you come to understand that they just don't have that answer. Miles is being naive, and rightfully so. He's the newbie.
Spiderman has always been about sacrifice. This is why he'll sacrifice his relationships, his successes and damn near everything he has to protect the city. He knows better than anyone that sometimes they genuinely can't save everybody. It isn't OOC for the Spiders to accept that they can't save everybody, especially since every member is implied to have gotten their 'Gwen Stacy moment' except Miles and Gwen. They wouldn't be happy with Miguel and they'd be nagging him all the way, but what Miles is doing is selfish. The movie is probably gonna make Miles right because he's the protagonist but what he's doing is risking billions of lives on a whim because he doesn't understand shit, unlike the others who've experienced the failures. This is basically just like NWH and Strange as the antagonist, where we then see Holland's Peter having to come to terms with the same lesson of falling to save everyone.
TL;DR: I don't think the Spiders would disagree with Miguel, I think they'd agree while understanding where Miles is coming from. At the end of the day, it's 1 Vs trillions, and Pete or no Pete, a Spidey is gonna take that sacrifice and then proceed to hate themselves.
@@javaughndouglas3641 you're correct and yes that is true about Miles and everything else. I was just mainly referring to most of the Spider-Men completely being against Miguel's train of thought.
@@javaughndouglas3641Gwen did have her “Gwen Stacy” moment with her fight with Peter when he was the Lizard.
Heck not even real Spectacular Spiderman would join Miguel. He would see Miguel is just saying bullshit and reaching to absurd conclusions.
Edge of Time Spider-Man getting de-ja vu is such a nice callback to his speech to Miguel in his game.
Miguel O'Hara: Come on Spider-man from 1048, support me
Spider-man (Insomniac): I didn't sacrifice May because I wanted to, it was my only option to save NY, Miles can still save his father.
1048 Peter made a choice to sacrifice his aunt don't take that from him
Miguel O'Hara: "And I'm literally arguing to make a sacrifice because it's the only option as well, and not for no fucking reason at all or hurr durr cause fate. Are the Miguel haters that blinded by their feelings that they can't tell the similarities or listen to the exact logic I give them?!"
Seriously, Miguel's logic is sound, if he feels they don't have another safe way or that it would fucking risk universal destruction that kills trillions AGAIN, if they try to test it, then allowing Canon Events to happen because it is the safest bet is literally a sound and moral assessment and not argued for no fucking reason.
Utilitarian, logical, focusing on worst-case scenario and options that benefit others and the most ppl, over the few and personal stakes/ one's ego. Miguel's logic is fucking moral and reasonable as fuck and some ppl hate so hard that they twist it into some evil hidden agenda. I slowly lose faith in humanity every time I see it. Seriously.
Lore accurate 90’s spider-man
The 90s VA played Miguel in edge of time
And Noir in Shattered Dimensions
90s spiderman would teach Miguel the true value of being spiderman
Good morals
You mean like being willing to accept that death is a part of life, and not destroy entire dimensions to save one person
@@gentlemancharmander4411
Exactly
That would explain why he wasn't in the movie. That and writers just couldn't make a good script without making Miguel look like a villain.
Best part is, TAS spiderman actually has Spiderverse experience before Miguel ever did, another reason to hope hes in BTSV
Spiderverse experience?! He DISCOVERED the Spiderverse dude!
@@antyep You're right, My Bad.
These 2 spider-men wouldn't even bother being in the same organization as Miguel. He clearly disgusts them
90s Spider-Man made a voiceless cameo in the new X-Men 97 series! HE MIGHT COME BACK SOON ENOUGH!!!
I hope they continue his series, it was low-key better than X-Men TAS.
When the 90s Spiderman is better than Spectacular Spiderman.
As of right now? Sadly yes...
Hey, he's older and more experienced
He always was.
yep 1994 Spiderman would had sided with Miles in a heartbeat.
Nope this Spider-Man It's not even mentioned by spider-verse, and I'm sorry about that but it was better that way.
@@Miranha-SupremoV17that kind of sucks.
@@darthkurland for what, From what we know, Spider-Man from the 90s was more popular in Latin America than elsewhere.
Love to see 90's Spiderman setting Miguel straight!
If we're bringing in 90s Spider-Man, can we bring in 90s Spider-Man 2099? Y'know, the one who would go on to unite humanity as a civilian leader, and even be worthy to lift Mjölnir?
I don't think it's a coincidence that, in the entire Spider Society, there is only one Miguel. I think he keeps it that way on purpose because he knows the one person who can talk him out of it the most and could see through his bs the most would be himself.
Fun Fact: Edge Of Time Spider-Man 2099 Have the Same VA than the Spider-Man TAS
Same with Noir Spider-Man in Shattered Dimension
0:41
>90s Peter poses question
>Edge of Time Peter: [great responsibility stare]
I am actually going to meet Daniel J Barnes in a few weeks at MOMOCON, I can't wait
That’s so cool
0:59 I feel like SO MANY variations of Spider Man would agree and call Miguel out!
That's why I think the Spectacular Spider-man we see in Across the Spider-Verse is a variant because the real Spectacular would never agree with Miguel.
@@MegaHeaf thats probably a version who JUST lost Gwen and/or George, so he's easily manipulated. There was this hypothetical season 3 I seen where he faced the Spot, allowing him to save George, but the new timeline was unstable, forcing him to go back and undo the changes. Maybe that's why he sides with Miguel. I know, not official, but still...
Literally why Tobey Maguire, Neil Patrick Harris, and Andrew Garfield were not in the movie. They all would have said thing as Chris Barnes Spidey.
Fuck it let's come full circle EDGE OF TIME O'HARA confronting himself
Hell yeah that'd rock
I agree
We need the earth’s mightiest hero spiderman
This has no right being this good, well freaking done.
Yes! This is exactly how this would play out. If anyone could tell Miguel how full of it he is, and a reeeeeeally good point was brought up here, it's the guy that has saved the multiverse, lost and found his girlfriend again, and gone through a whoooooole lot of crap!
THAT'S THE GOAAAAAAAT!!!! THE GREATEST SPIDER-MAN ADAPTATION!!!!
“i’m gonna go home… you know to that wife that I have, how do you like that Miguel?”
right in the bolas
Eeeeeeeh. Not the right thing to say here
Yeah too far too far
0:44 facts! Miguel listen to TAS Peter he knows what he’s talking about
This is actually a very cool dynamic, makes me appreciate 90s spiderman and ATSV Miguel a lot more
I think they should've added a scene like this in the final movie, but maybe that would've been a little bit of a spoiler for the reveal. Maybe they can bring back 90's Spider-Man in Beyond the Spider-Verse
My head canon is that 90s Spidey WAS part of the spider society, but got kicked out for speaking his mind. That’s why there’s no references to him when almost everything else is referenced even the most unknown stuff. We know Miguel isn’t above excluding people (MCU Peter for example), and I believe that’s why Andrew and Tobey aren’t part of it either, because he knows they’d never go along with Jeff dying
Technically I don't think it just a case of that unlimited is technically the same person of 90s and the 90s song of it was playing so he technically canonically canon to the 90s
Well technically he could be the same or an alternative variant of the 90s as the theme song form the 90 s was playing in that show in the first episode
I actually believe we see the spider bite from Spider-Man the Animated Series but it's only showing his hand. I do think 90s Spider-Man was a part of this society but was fired. Why would Miguel show footage of universes with Spider-Men that he hasn't recruited unless he knows they would not agree with him. I know someone who created Spectacular along with Josh Keaton thought Spectacular wouldn't agree with Miguel and that creator said it could be a variant. And maybe that is the case with there being 2 or 3 Spider-Man Unlimited's shown.
@@Suii2008Spider-Man Unlimited and the 90s show are definitely not the same universe. Because in Unlimited I think Venom and Carnage are brothers while the 90s show has them as father and son. And just because Unlimited had a scene with the 90s theme doesn't mean they're the same as we saw with the MCU having the 90s X-Men theme and earth 838 having the X-Men theme. I do think your theory about Unlimited being a variant of 90s could be correct. Not trying to be rude, just saying what I think.
I'm genuinely curious why he was the only major Spider-Man left out of these films. Does anyone know why?
Miguel was cherry picking spideys that also believe his morals.
I am sure he will be in beyond the spider-verse
Maybe it has something to do with the cameo in X-Men 97? 🤔
Maybe he might play a major role in btsv so they’ll surprise us
@@minicle426most likely
90s Peter would be the leader dude was the og spider verse aka spider wars
I feel like he WILL cameo but I feel like his main concern rn is finding Mary-Jane after Green Goblin teleported her across the multi-verse.
@@TECH097 About that... Watch X-Men 97's Episode 10 to see what he's been upto.
@@hrickthegeek Oh I figure he'd be brought back lol Just a matter of it seems like there's more to his story haha
He was Probably kicked by Miguel from the "Spiderverse", But he Has His own group of Spidermans thanks to Madam Web, So thats not a big problem At all, He probably dont even Know what is Happening with miles XD
Hoenstly, I don't blame this version of Miguel (Yes I say "this version" because Edge of Time and Shattered Dimensions Miguel exist (also Ultimate Spider-Man Miguel)) for giving up the Spider-Man code. He watched a variant of his world and family collapse and vanished before his very eyes, so his depressed view of the multiverse and canon events are reasonable.
But that doesn't make him right.
0:58 It was funny hearing that coming from 90's spider-man when his voice actor actually voiced miguel in Edge of Time and got that same lecture from Josh Keaton's spidey, lol
I think you meant edge of time
@@ty-ray1307 oh yeah, my bad
He's got Miguel dead to rights here; if what happened on Miguel's world happened everywhere when canon is disrupted, then Earth 42 would have vanished long before Myles got there. There's definitely something Miguel isnt telling the other Spidermen.
Or he simply doesn't know and assumes way too much to cope with his stupid decisions
@@tabkg5802 I mean x men 97 with cable just show you he tried to mess with a fix point and it never worked imagine what would happen if he did do it.
Naruto said it best
WHO ARE *YOU* TO DECIDE SOMEONE ELSES FATE
I wish he was. Bring Christopher Daniel Barnes into the spider verse!
90's Spider-Man would have just called up Madame Web and The Beyonder and fix this mess in minutes.
It's too bad that Spiderman TAS Spiderman wasn't in this movie.
Hopefully he’ll make an appearance in Beyond the Spider-verse. Would love to hear Daniel Barnes as Peter again
This is actually so damn true and should've been used hopefully they'll do something similar in beyond the Spider-Verse. Spider-Man is always supposed to do the right thing never stand by and just let bad things no matter what.
The truth is, what bothers me the most is that they have portrayed Miguel as a villain.
No, they portrayed him as an antagonist.
@@ItsKeysama And antagonists aren't always villains.
@@milesbradshaw6643not necessarily. An antagonist is someone who opposes the protagonist but they’re not evil. Miguel wants to make sure history doesn’t repeat itself and another world is erased by the distribution of canon events. Miles wants to save every world and everyone. They both have good intentions but how they go about it differs and they don’t agree with each other.
@@MidnightShadowStrikerwhat he means is we don't like the only mainstream version of him atm being depicted like this, for someone that likes the charactee in the comics, seeing the fandom on mass saying he doesn't deserve to be spider-man is descouraging.
@@Mr.Maguro that I understand and I agree. I know a little about Miguel before this movie and it’s kinda sad to see so many ppl misunderstand him and pin him as the bad guy
Shattered Dimensions Peter and 90’s Peter teaming up is FUCKING goated. I damn near climaxed.
It's Edge Of Time Spidey
@@kamil.p5134 Yeah I know but they’re in the same series.
Cringe
Damn 90s is really calling him out on his logic and is even putting him into a corner that he can’t even say anything and like how he quoted edge of time spider man
90’s Spidey was golden
I got the fortune cookie reference lol.
Please tell me this is setting up an EoT Miguel and ATSV Miguel showdown, complete with a joke about how EoT's voice sounds like "That Preachy Do Gooder Animated Series Spider-Man."
We need one where Miguel just meets other versions of himself, watch them either agree or disagree with what he’s doing
You mean Edge of Time Miguel O'Hara?
Do you know what I say insomniac Spider-Man would be on the side of miles because he has a miles
Ironic, since in Edge of time, Miguel is voiced by the same voice actor that voices Spider-Man from the 90s
90s Spidey needs to get the Symbiote and talk to Miguel
MIGUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEL GET BACK HERE MIGUEL
*"I'LL CHASE YOU TO THE ENDS OF THE EARTH!"*
Shit, he doesn't even NEED the symbiote. It'll just make it happen faster.
We need Edge of Time Miguel interacting with Spider-Verse Miguel
..Holy cow I literally thought that was the legit VA from the original 90's!!
This feels like a deleted scene. Probably mesnt to be a post-credit scene.
Ikr it feels like it would fit so well
I would like to see him in the art style of spider verse
I think his art style wouldn't be 3D tbh
@@SupermodelGaming would like to see it though
Funny how if the 90s spiderman would have had madamweb to show Miguel hes wrong and that hes right.
But also remember that theres a spiderman that got everything they would ever want, ubcle ben is alive, is dating gwen and is an owner if a great company. Miguel seems to have cherry picked the spiders that fit his idea
I forgot about the iron spider. Yeah. 90s spider should have used that as an example.
@@kristiankepley5944i think ypu mean silver spider
You know, I'm curious of other versions of Miguel would agree with this one, or would any of them call him out?
Yeah absolutely. Edge of time miguel would after the game ends. He literally got taught the same lesson.
I agree being spider man do not mean let somebody die I think Miguel need to understand that I do not think he have the right to call him self spider man
Would have been fun if Miguel was like "what do you know? You can't even punch anyone in your universe!"
But I can throw and kick
"True, but last time I checked, we aren't in my universe right now."
Wait what?
@@animeking1357 In spiderman the animated series the sensors would never let spiderman punch anyone so he could only wrestle and kick. Dont ask me why Batman got away with punching joker silly in his show.
@@chief664 I don't think I ever noticed this. I gotta go watch more episodes.
the Unique Spider-Man, Whose Sony does not have the Rights to because he belongs to the Universe of the X-Men Animated Series, The Spider-man from the 90s, and also the only one who didn't appear in the Spider-verse due to a Blessing.
If you can’t save one person then you don’t know what the first thing spider-Man is about!🗣️🔥🔥
Yes finally Peter Parker calling out Miguel on this dumb argument it’s the whole reason why Across the Spider Verse plot doesn’t work.
I only have one question….WHY WASN’T 90s SPIDERMAN IN THE MOVIE!? I’m serious it’s been annoying me since the Miles Morales films started. I understand that Disney or Sony or whoever may not want him there but if you’re doing X-Men 97 at least throw us a bone!
They're tired.
He would have pointed out Canon Events are BS due to the Perfect Spider-Man in that one saga
0:51 that’s what I’m saying
With the Voice Talent of
Christopher Daniel Barnes
Oscar Isaac
&
Josh Keaton
He better be in the last movie.
I understand Miguel not taking the risk cuz of one person as he is traumatized and it's not his mindset but cmon anyone of those peters could have experimented and actively helped miles out themselves to prove Miguel may have not been completely correct, Peter are smart enough
I am pretty sure that real Miguel O'Hara would have found another way. But this one doesn't. He is completely short minded.
Fr Miguel is kind of arrogant in the comics but he is way closer to being Spider-Man imo, he still bust his ass to save whole timeline and he is funnier
Web of Shadows spider man plz
If Edge of Time Miguel (literally voiced by 90s Spidey) came in and kicked SV Miguel around for not getting Spider-Man, then Across becomes 10/10 to me. Otherwise, it'll be a 8 or 9 and say they should've used Superior Spidey instead.
This is like an actual scene from a show/movie.
TAS Spidey would destroy Miguel
Are you sure about that
He would definitely web at him
*I'LL CHASE YOU TO THE END OF THE EARTH!!!!!*
- 90's Animated Spider-Man
The fact that the very first Spiderverse, 90's spiderverse, completely contradicts ATSV, making the whole conflict meaningless is very funny to me.
Come again?
@@dylansharp8471 How can uncle Ben's and Stacy's deaths be canon events if Iron Spider is married to Gwen Stacy and his uncle Ben is alive and well in his timeline? Tobey's Gwen is alive, we can assume Tom's is too. So that basically shows that "canon events" are bogus that the movie used to force you to sympathize with O'Hara (who himself is a bastardized version of the character already). And if you're asking about 90's Spiderverse then it's because the whole idea of multiple Spider-Men was introduced in the 90's animated series where the point was to show that Peter grew through the series.
@@dylansharp8471I have the theory that both Miguel and Miles are right and wrong about the Canon Events at the same time. All the examples you did was done by the same people of the same universe, it was Tobey's Peter who saved his Gwen Stacy. It was the 90s rich Peter who catche the thief and let Ben alive. But in the otherhand, Miguel O'Hara disrupt a canon event by intervining in an universe that wasn't his. It would be way different if instead of Tobey's Peter saving Gwen Stacy a portal appear and Andrew's Peter saved her instead. This theory was futher confirmed after George Stacy of Earth-65 quit form being a police officer it was HIS decicion inspired by HIS Gwen. We can still have INDIRECT outside help. Such as Miles Morales helping Peter B. Parker to become a dad or Gwen's departoure to his universe make George Stacy to quit his job. If Miles wanted to help Pavitr he could focus on the bus and let Pavitr just focus to save Inspector Singh since that wouldn't mess with the Canon. I think that Gwen discovered that and that Miguel qould discover that too. Making saving Jefferson Davis' all in Miles' shoulders now.
For me the 90s Spidey is the godfather of modern Spider-Man media
because he basically change the scene. Symbiote, doc ock and even the "Spider Verse"
@@Rage_Templar Spectacular maybe the best Spidey show, but 90s is the godfather indeed. Respect!
"Where'd you get that, a fortune cookie?"
No, Miguel. He got it from knowing how to be Spider-Man
All wisdom is based on experience. Even if it's corny.