That was a very interesting discussion, and I especially like that the Oedipus complex helps us become empathic rather than narcissistic. Also that you don’t need to have a father in the house in order for the Oedipus complex to happen. In my case, I think it was my older sister, who took the role of my deceased father, and that she was more the person that my mother wanted to rely on, similar to auntie Ruth. The one thing I would add is that one of the unrealities that the child may develop is not only that he’s always right and knows everything, but that he is always wrong and knows nothing. This is also equally not realistic, but something that a person can believe to cope with the reality that they simply were not enough at one point, and that need to learn how to be. So either way the ego is malformed, and the consequences for the person are long-term, because they become rigid and fixed in their belief about themselves.
Thank so much!! I am a mother of a 13 years olh boy and he made a strong fixation on me. This really helps me to understand what s going on and help him în a proper way. I didnt had a clue that this is even posibile.
Thank you so much for the nice explanation! I'd be curious to hear you opinion on the Oedipus Complex related to female sexual early development in the light of this century.
While analysis,when patient have their transference,with analyst,it could be so visible on the surface. Thankyou,for your speech. Im from Indian Psychoanalytical Society from India.
So according to this theory, the child of a very caring and devoted mother would be more prone to becoming a narcissist, and the child of a neglectful mother would be more prone to developing empathy ?
If I may jump in for clarification, my understanding of a caring and devoted mother is best IF she is not smothering her child with too much attention and praise, to the point that the child becomes the "golden" child.. Often times, golden children become narcissists. The believe they have it all; when they discover they are lacking, they create a false self to compensate for their feelings of emptiness or shame. The neglectful mother can also raise a narcissistic child or, minimally a neurotic child. Only occasionally will these kids have empathy because empathy is typically learned from caregivers.
The Oedipal Complex is a theory and a metaphor. The theory has been worked over continuously for decades, perhaps culminating in Deleuze and Guattari's "Anti-Oedipus." Klein introduced the stark distinction between the oedipal and the pre-Oedipal phases which only seemed to hinge on the differences in experience of the child, on the imputed differences in the child's 'state of mind.' Taking the perspective of a very young child from the adult view is loaded with attributions. How are we to validate these attributions? One important consideration is methodology: including all the possible variations. For example, what are the social conditions that impinge on the mother-infant attachment? The father, other men and women in the household who may share the child-care activities, there are others outside of the household: neighbors, employers, relatives all of whom have their interests impinging on the mother and her relationship to the child. But, perhaps the most important factor is the sibling(s). The impact of a sibling before or after a child's birth can be stressful but any attribution into the child's feelings or thought - what the child knew when - is speculative. There are many variables to consider. Another important consideration is the environment. Some consider the father the environment of the mother-infant relationship, others consider the mother as the environment of the child. Then there is the environment of the larger family, and the two kinship structures or networks from which the household relations are composed, and above this there is the culture and its historical norms. I hesitate to say law or rules or practices, although these are relevant also. The sentiment structure in the household - the preferential liking and disliking between the parents for each child must be considered at both the individual level and the cultural level. Many cultures prefer the male child over the female, some the reverse. In the US, the fosters tend to prefer their daughters, but this is no universal and instead highly variable. What drives the preferential basis underlying the sentiment structure. Do both parents view the child in the same way, or differentially? What is the perspective of other relatives, some of whom may be child-caretakers like babysitters. What is the cultural norm for parental perspectives upon their children? Larger issues emerge with age: the impacts of local neighborhoods, educational settings, interaction with professionals, like doctors, nurses and social workers, or local psychiatrists, and the pragmatic effects of economics and law enforcement. Reducing the objective situation or totality of social conditions, the historical culture, to the metaphor of 3-in-1 with functional roles carefully defined is a rigid structuralism which contradicts differences in authority relations within the household, between households, within and between neighborhoods, and avoids the question of personality: the development of the child's personality and the impacts of the personalities of siblings and other adults. Who has authority in the family? is a critical question because at this critical point is the dividing point between the mother-infant relation and the so-called autonomy of the child: the change from a relation to the mother to other immediate authorities who may be the father but not merely the father - there are others who exercise authority over the child who tries to negotiate the social contexts without any theory or prior knowledge, perhaps with an enhanced ability to infer, deduce or imitate. Cultural norms are constraints on this learning-negotiating process which entails sexist, racist, and class "values." Thus, the Oedipal Complex seems like a definitive stage of power where certain outcomes are determined by the child's drawing particular conclusions and becomes an Oedipal winner or loser, or foreclosing on the entire matrix and becoming apathetic or avoidant to family and culture. It is important to relate cultural norms to family practices and interpret or draw meaningful observations from varying degrees or opposition or compliance with norms. Defining the norms however is complex because the issues of authority, fusion of kinship structures, and factors like inheritance or wealth are overdetermining. The drama of our lives surely begins in early childhood unaware of the influence of powerful factors.
Hey Doctor, This is a question I had a while ago: Is it possible for it to be so unbearable that the child loses his own sense of reality, and only sees the world from another's point of view? So the exact opposite of Donald trump I apologize if this is a stupid question or one that shouldn't be asked in this forum. Thanks.
And it never ends no matter how long the man has been out of the office. Yet Fauci is not a narcissist, no. Not a megalomaniac at all. He is Science! What does this selective projection say about psychoanalysts and psychoanalysis?
I appreciate how the speaker took the theory beyond conservative/traditional models of family life
Really nicely explained; another impressive lecture from the Berlin Psychoanalytic
Thank you so much Vaughan! We are delighted that you enjoy our content!
That was a very interesting discussion, and I especially like that the Oedipus complex helps us become empathic rather than narcissistic. Also that you don’t need to have a father in the house in order for the Oedipus complex to happen. In my case, I think it was my older sister, who took the role of my deceased father, and that she was more the person that my mother wanted to rely on, similar to auntie Ruth. The one thing I would add is that one of the unrealities that the child may develop is not only that he’s always right and knows everything, but that he is always wrong and knows nothing. This is also equally not realistic, but something that a person can believe to cope with the reality that they simply were not enough at one point, and that need to learn how to be. So either way the ego is malformed, and the consequences for the person are long-term, because they become rigid and fixed in their belief about themselves.
Thank so much!! I am a mother of a 13 years olh boy and he made a strong fixation on me. This really helps me to understand what s going on and help him în a proper way. I didnt had a clue that this is even posibile.
That was great. Thanks. Love the bite-size explanation.
Thank you for your comment! Very glad to hear that you enjoyed the video.
Thank you very much for the video! The connections drawn here between the different aspects of Ödipus are incredibly helpful.
many thanks, Rodrigo. great video :-)
Thank you so much for the nice explanation! I'd be curious to hear you opinion on the Oedipus Complex related to female sexual early development in the light of this century.
Excellent presentation. Thanks you.
While analysis,when patient have their transference,with analyst,it could be so visible on the surface.
Thankyou,for your speech.
Im from
Indian Psychoanalytical Society from India.
this was extremely helpful for my essay. Thank You!
Glad it was helpful!
Very clear. Thank you
nicely explained.
Thank you
So nice of you to share support.
So according to this theory, the child of a very caring and devoted mother would be more prone to becoming a narcissist, and the child of a neglectful mother would be more prone to developing empathy ?
If I may jump in for clarification, my understanding of a caring and devoted mother is best IF she is not smothering her child with too much attention and praise, to the point that the child becomes the "golden" child.. Often times, golden children become narcissists. The believe they have it all; when they discover they are lacking, they create a false self to compensate for their feelings of emptiness or shame. The neglectful mother can also raise a narcissistic child or, minimally a neurotic child. Only occasionally will these kids have empathy because empathy is typically learned from caregivers.
The Oedipal Complex is a theory and a metaphor. The theory has been worked over continuously for decades, perhaps culminating in Deleuze and Guattari's "Anti-Oedipus." Klein introduced the stark distinction between the oedipal and the pre-Oedipal phases which only seemed to hinge on the differences in experience of the child, on the imputed differences in the child's 'state of mind.' Taking the perspective of a very young child from the adult view is loaded with attributions. How are we to validate these attributions? One important consideration is methodology: including all the possible variations. For example, what are the social conditions that impinge on the mother-infant attachment? The father, other men and women in the household who may share the child-care activities, there are others outside of the household: neighbors, employers, relatives all of whom have their interests impinging on the mother and her relationship to the child.
But, perhaps the most important factor is the sibling(s). The impact of a sibling before or after a child's birth can be stressful but any attribution into the child's feelings or thought - what the child knew when - is speculative. There are many variables to consider.
Another important consideration is the environment. Some consider the father the environment of the mother-infant relationship, others consider the mother as the environment of the child. Then there is the environment of the larger family, and the two kinship structures or networks from which the household relations are composed, and above this there is the culture and its historical norms. I hesitate to say law or rules or practices, although these are relevant also. The sentiment structure in the household - the preferential liking and disliking between the parents for each child must be considered at both the individual level and the cultural level. Many cultures prefer the male child over the female, some the reverse. In the US, the fosters tend to prefer their daughters, but this is no universal and instead highly variable. What drives the preferential basis underlying the sentiment structure. Do both parents view the child in the same way, or differentially? What is the perspective of other relatives, some of whom may be child-caretakers like babysitters. What is the cultural norm for parental perspectives upon their children? Larger issues emerge with age: the impacts of local neighborhoods, educational settings, interaction with professionals, like doctors, nurses and social workers, or local psychiatrists, and the pragmatic effects of economics and law enforcement.
Reducing the objective situation or totality of social conditions, the historical culture, to the metaphor of 3-in-1 with functional roles carefully defined is a rigid structuralism which contradicts differences in authority relations within the household, between households, within and between neighborhoods, and avoids the question of personality: the development of the child's personality and the impacts of the personalities of siblings and other adults. Who has authority in the family? is a critical question because at this critical point is the dividing point between the mother-infant relation and the so-called autonomy of the child: the change from a relation to the mother to other immediate authorities who may be the father but not merely the father - there are others who exercise authority over the child who tries to negotiate the social contexts without any theory or prior knowledge, perhaps with an enhanced ability to infer, deduce or imitate. Cultural norms are constraints on this learning-negotiating process which entails sexist, racist, and class "values." Thus, the Oedipal Complex seems like a definitive stage of power where certain outcomes are determined by the child's drawing particular conclusions and becomes an Oedipal winner or loser, or foreclosing on the entire matrix and becoming apathetic or avoidant to family and culture. It is important to relate cultural norms to family practices and interpret or draw meaningful observations from varying degrees or opposition or compliance with norms. Defining the norms however is complex because the issues of authority, fusion of kinship structures, and factors like inheritance or wealth are overdetermining. The drama of our lives surely begins in early childhood unaware of the influence of powerful factors.
i clicked thinking it was vsauce
Hey Doctor,
This is a question I had a while ago:
Is it possible for it to be so unbearable that the child loses his own sense of reality, and only sees the world from another's point of view?
So the exact opposite of Donald trump
I apologize if this is a stupid question or one that shouldn't be asked in this forum. Thanks.
What would Freud say about Trump derangement syndrom and Trump obsession?
....Projecting into Trump...so reductionist
And it never ends no matter how long the man has been out of the office. Yet Fauci is not a narcissist, no. Not a megalomaniac at all. He is Science! What does this selective projection say about psychoanalysts and psychoanalysis?
This topic should be politically neutral
sorry, your opinion.