Both great bands. Bathory is my favorite band, Venom holds a special place in my heart. I’ll say that Venom invented and started Black Metal. But then Bathory damn perfected it. RIP to Quorthon
Compare 'Born For Burning' to the very awesome Venom track from the Black Metal album, called 'Don't Burn the Witch'. Same riff and pretty much the same lyrical theme.
Although Venom sorta predicted black metal, Bathory were the ones that really started it first imo and have really influenced the genre the most imo. I personally prefer Bathory over venom but venom is pretty good too
Haha nah Quorthon was just a studio musician who stole from venom everything in his early days, venom is a real liveband, so what are you talking about? 😆
Quorthon stole only 2 songs (begining from Teacher's Pet and song Don't burn the witch) from Venom as i remember . And also stole 2 songs from Metallica (Fight Fire with Fire and Outro from For whom the bells toll)
Alexander Teixeira Moreira Ask Jonas Akerlund who truly influenced Bathory. I love Bathory but Quorthon saying he "never knew about venom" when he formed Bathory is BS.
There's no doubt on the first Bathory album there was obvious and probably deliberate influence from Venom all over that album in every song. I don't think Bathory really came into their own until the second album "The Return.....". Quothon took the Venom influence and made something authentic out of it he could call his own. I love Venom's music and find a lot of brilliance in it that most today and back then could not, but the term Black Metal really meant nothing to them back then when they coined it. It's only been in recent years the original members have provided great definition for what it means to them now. But to me Bathory's "The Return....." was the first 100% Black Metal album. The only band that has a release I feel could challenge this is Sodom's "In The Sign Of Evil".
I think it became a term in 1984. Ive seen posters titled "Black metal night" with venom listed as the: "Masterss of Black metal" anyway i also think its really strange how on the interviews ive seen of bathory, every one says that "The Return" was disappointing and called shit. I mean whats wrong with it?
Black Metal became a term in 1982 because Venom's second album was called "Black Metal". And there's nothing really wrong with "The Return....". It's a great album. Back then though it was a VERY acquired taste. A lot of people didn't get it. When the 90's came and Black Metal became a scene though it was considered brilliance looking back on it because it paved the way for everything at that time. Some music is like a fine wine and gets better with age over time.
Let me tell you a little of the "Black Metal" at the time. Back then it was not important, all those bands like Venom, Exiter and Mercyful Fate that were formed on late 70's developed something that were known as Heavy Metal Underground as being more extreme on speed and heavines as well on topics, that in between 1979 and 1981. Many more bands appeared and, in 1982 Venom coined the name Black Metal on their 2nd album. By 1983 and 1984 terms like Speed Metal, Thrash Metal, Death Metal and Black Metal started to be use in order to clarify a little more the style of any band. But again, it was nothing important, the important was that we had heavier bands than Maiden, WASP, Priest, Scorpions, Motley Crue and Plasmatics on that moment. As defined at the time, Death Metal was supoused to be that on which dead, death, dark, and zombie topics were held on the lyrics of the songs accompained with guttural-demonic voices. Hence, at the time Death Metal bands were: Early Sodom, early Bathory and Hellhammer. Then after when Hellhammer took the shape as Celtic Frost, when realeasing Morbid Tales, Noise records declared that Celtic Frost music is Heavy Metal or, perhaps Death Metal. On the other hand, Black Metal were those bands with open Satanic topics. Bands like Venom and Mercyful Fate were inducted on this genre. Even some people categorized Slayer as Black Metal. Possessed was considered Black Metal at the time as well by 1985 and 1986 with Seven Churches and Beyond the Gates. It happened when Screem Bloody Gore by Death was declared to be "Death Metal" and, since Possessed sounded like them (but not to forget Possessed was first and it was Jeff Beccerra who inspired Chuck Shuldinger's vocal style at the begining), Possessed was converted into Death Metal. And, since Sodom, Bathory and Hellhammer/Celtic Frost inspired bands like Mayhem, they were moved to the Black Metal scene. Incredible, the creators of the Black Metal VENOM are not considered as Black Metal now. But do not forget this....BLACK METAL IS VENOM!!!!, there is not other band which is Black Metal, but VEEENNOOOMMM!!!!!
@@antoniorc8795 well Wasp in their early demos were quite heavy ... And extreme . And was darker Demos as Show no mercy and the torture never stops were thrashy . And the vocals of blackie were very agressive . Some Screams , along the stage prescence , influenced Black metal or death metal whatever . Master of disaster in the chorus and At the central part has kind of Scandinavian black metal touch to it . And adding the Sister incarnation with the demos sex drive ... it still more classic heavy metal but there s a darkness and abrasive stuff to it .. and the screaming is to me kind of root of what happen later . (1976-1978 ) where they created all the image stuff 4 years before Venom and stuff . Spikes , Make up , pentragam ...etc .
@@antoniorc8795 but at the end of the day its a Critics or fan matterz . As real musician" styles " are not separate in your mind . For theses bands they were doing just their extension of Heavy metal and stuff .. Thats why every record was different and visionary .. Instead of repetitive codes of followers .
@@Nissardpertugiu you are right, WASP, what a great band....Blackie and Co.really scared many new bands at the time.Yes they were really bizarre at the time they started...no doubt Slayer, Hellhammer, SoDoM,...etc were inspired by WASP
He is right , indeed, however , that hardly obscures the fact that Quorthon was light years ahead of Venom in terms of talent in general , having even created musical styles besides Black Metal which Quorthon is mostly known for and helped pioneer . To me his Viking metal phase ( ´Hammerheart` ) / Robert E. Howard/early Manowar inspired " Blood on ice " classic album / eclectic, classical, experimental " Twilight of the Gods " phase ... even his punk/metal albums and experiments like " Destroyer of worlds" are just as relevant as what he did for Black/thrash ( we often would call Bathory Thrash in the mid/late 80s ). A body of work light years ahead of what Venom have accomplished through their entire career .
Well said. Yes, Venom started something, and Quorthon was inspired by Venom's sound and attitude (and not just Venom), but most of Venom albums are something that I will listen to once or twice and forget, while I can listen to most of Bathory albums whenever I want. Venom is more of a hard rock band, nothing too serious.
Actually you are aware that , hahah, even though I never believed him , Quorthon used to say that he´d never even heard Venom before his debut album, that he was influenced by early GBH and other punk bands instead . I find that impossible but yeah, we were used to Quorthon saying the most far fetched s***, contradict himself , like saying he produced an entire movie and somehow the tapes were ruined , the video for ´One road to Asa bay` having been little parts they were able to recover from a 1000 hour footage or whatever he said back then , haha ... so yeah, with Quorthon , you never know ... like when ´Blood on Ice` came out right after Twilight of the Gods ... this guy comes out and says that it was an album he had * created ( that must have confused you, just edited it ) between ´blood, fire, death` and ´ Hammerheart` and chose not to release it cause he was afraid the people who were into Bathory would have disliked it for its obvious early Manowar influences ! Well, listen to that album and tell me it doesn´t sound much more ´sophisticated` / mature than ´Hammerheart` ( even though this last one is my favourite ) . Oh shit, sorry for the long post , most shit you´ve probably read somewhere anyways .
Haha most of it but not all, thanks! :-) Yeah, he was a mystery and still is, but it's still fun trying to decipher everything even years after his death. Apparently he said there were two more videos after "One Rode" but no one knows where there are. I totally agree about "Blood on Ice", that album is so full of ideas and innovation that even the "Nordland" duo sounds simpler (damn, I wish someone released "Nordland 3 - even just the ideas, whatever they had, working tracks, I don't care) and "Blood" and "Hammerheart" are two of my favorites. Yes, "Hammerheart" is more, let's say, legendary, but still I find myself humming "Man of Iron" or "Woodwoman" more often. Apparently he made "Blood" right after "Twilight" but before the release they re-recorded or added some more stuff, he wasn't entirely happy with the original version. Good old Quorthon, I still sometimes read his interviews. Like saying Boss couldn't possibly be his father as Boss was too young (then you see his obituary and realize he lied when he said he was 18 when he recorded the first album) - maybe because one of the Mayhem guys said Quorthon's dad was his producer and wrote all the songs for him - I believe they worked together and bloody hell, if my dad was a label owner and had a studio my music still wouldn't be better than Bathory, haha. Well, Boss is now dead too, but we still have the music. And no matter what he said, we have to admit it was memorable. :-)
Well the thing about Quorthon on not knowing about Venom is even clarified by Jonas °Akerlund. On the other hand, during early 1988, been a teen on that time, I was waiting for the next album from Bathory (after the Under the Sign of the Black Mark, released on 1986). A local radiostation (Rock 101, with a program called Heavy Metal Subterraneo) was dedicated fon an hour to all Underground Metal. And I remember that the radiostation-man said it clear on early 1988 that "it is roumored that there is a comming album from Bathory, it is said it will be called ---The Ice---, and will be released on this year". That is all what he said. On about November 1988, the radiostation presented a song from the new album from Bathory, the song was "For All Those Who Died", but radiostation never mentioned the name of the album, since, according to them, they did not know the name, they just received a tape with that song. By December 1988 I went to aquire the new album, expecting to be called "The Ice", but to my surprise it was called "Blood Fire Death". Remember that on that time internet did not existed and every communication and interchanges were held mainly throughout postmailling. Seems that it may be true that Quorthon had that plan, and I was surprised about 8 years after when "Blood on Ice" was released and knowing a little after that it was supoused to be released by 1988 or 1989.
like a comment said, quorthon denied venom (at some point doing the dumb of their existance claiming that everything he did, started from "zero"), but in an mtv interview he said that in the beginning they were influenced by motorhead and SOME NEWCASTLE BAND, what other band from newcastle do you know that had THAT sound? better tom warrior has said in many occasions welcome to hell taught him the darkness in music, and he did the 3 legendary demos in 1983, one year before the s/t bathory, it almost sounds like its impossible not to be influenced by venom in those years I dont prefer one or another, love both of them, bathory has more good albums and memorable soul-full songs. venom had been a huge influnce in many bands, they were the first to say YES WE ARE IN LEAGUE WITH SATAN and broke that boundary, a lot of extreme material released before the calm album... for me is a tie
I understand that Venom inspired Bathory (and not the other way round), but bragging about that publicly is a bit out of taste, especially if Quorthon is dead. It's not the 1st time that Cronos tries to diminish and ridicule the bands that eventually went bigger than Venom (Bathory, Metallica etc.), I think it's hard for him to swallow the fact that there was a time he and Venom were on top, but later they're fell in oblivion. He can't stand the view of kids he taught and inspired in early 80's being now in much higher rank than he is.
He's not even ridiculing or insulting Quorthon or Bathory has a band. He is just stating a fact that Quorthon did what he did, despite the fact that Quorthon denied several times to ever knowing about Venom's existence. I did not think that he was being rude in anyway. And Bathory was never bigger than Venom. Bathory barely even toured. Go up to the search bar and type in "Bathory live." You're not going to find anything. Venom started a lot of what is big today. The trash metal, death metal, speed metal, black metal they all did first. Bathory, Metallica, Slayer, Death, Mayhem, Celtic Frost, and Pantera just did it better.
Venom was bigger...but not better. Bathory is better...faster more creative in the song structure. Venom is good...but...to me. I always looked at venom as a more satanic moterhead
eh , i wouldn't look too into it - just by the way Cronos said it was in a humorous manner - i'm sure he has the upmost respect for Quorthon - either way, Venom and Bathory are amazing
Would you fake fans please stop saying that Quorthon copied Venom or got lots of influence from Venom ? I think bathory got some influence from Venom but really not that much.Quorthon said he was just playing punk and Motörhead-type stuff before he founded Bathory. BlackSabbath/Motörhead/G.B.H were actually the bands that influenced him,even including Exploited/Exciter but not Venom.And he used to be a Kiss fan when He was a kid. Why you guys like to force this man to admit things that didn’t happen to him? “I don’t think there are any similarities musically between Venom and Bathory at all. But I do think Black Metal (Venom) - which I heard for the first time three months after we formed Bathory - is one of the best albums ever made because it has genuine feeling. At that time there was no speed or thrash around, so Venom were very unique” -Quorthon
@@LXT43 Venom never played very well in the begining . Bathory was better in that sense , and they did shows in 1983 to 1985 in sweden . After the music changed so much and became almost impossible to play live . Ask Primordial guys , Emperor guys and all the fuckin ... The Bathory Bloodfire , hammerheart ..stuff were very difficult to play live . So they understood why he never toured . Anyway the musical changes and evolution doesnt lie about Bathory . No dismissing about Venom .. but thats true . Sure now Venom is more musical competent .. But not the same .
Bathory name and other similarities aside, the transition from The Rite Of Darkness to Reap Of Evil is a straight ripoff of Buried Alive - Raise The Dead. These few seconds are more proof than anything. That said, I'm a Bathory fan forever while Venom were okay for 2-3 albums max.
Venom are like the black metal version of Possessed. Both killer bands in their own right and planted the seeds for black metal and death metal respectively by having songs with the title of respective genres but to me and countless others - Bathory and Death perfected said aforementioned genres respectively. Only difference being that Chuck straight up said Possessed were the first whereas Quorthon tried badly to cover up the influence - personally I think this would have been down to fear of being sued by Venom and Neat Records and advice from Boss to deny being majorly influenced by Venom. The 80's! What a crazy time eh?!
the influence of venom towards bathory is too strong for me to believe quorthons denial too any riff similarities, album production shares so much in common, lyrics too!
Venom clearly had a some kick more... Venom never was a black metal act despite their lyrics and their Black Metal album; their musical roots were closer to punk and metal. They kept a melodic thread in it, which kept them less niche (therefore more modern). As a matter of fact they still are around and still kick asses.
Their musical roots... Dude you think Venom roots were black metal ? Abaddon is born in 1959, Mantas 1961 , Cronos 1963. They were the first, they can't be influenced and have black metal roots. But they had some ranges of influences growing up in the time they did. As opposite to modern bands that listen 1 type of shit. Others bands such Celtic frost...were influenced by Venom along the way, but their roots weren't extreme metal at all as you think. I spend the new years eve 2019 witb Stephen priestly in Zurich , his first hero idol was Gene Krupa, not black metal.
Pfft. Bathory. Harduh. Every band has an influence but that fucking influence does not come up with the sound the band creates. Whether they want to admit who their influence was doesn't fucking matter. Venom MAY have been part of the influence butt they couldn't possibly create what Bathory has.
Venom is very influential and super important to the birth of extreme metal scene, but I think that musically speaking, Bathory (Quorthon) was on another level, especially from Hammerheart onwards.
@@MikeHunt90731 I prefer the early stuff. When I heard the first record I was sold..My favorite is Under the sign of the black mark.. But a couple of my friends are into the nordic stuff, i've tried but nope i just can't get on board with that.
@@MikeHunt90731They want the satanic shit. But Quorthorn as a song writer increased 10 fold. So did his riffs. Before then, a lot was really Motörhead and Venom inspired. Then he got into Manowar and metallica
venom fueron los pioneros bathory acentuo el sonido duela a quien le duela. adoro a los 2 grupos soy gran fan de ambos pero VENOM fue el inicio del del black metal
Quorthon eventually hated whole black metal scene so he wouldnt care shit about his past records or venom. I mean he was like 17-year old kid at time and lived past it.
Quorthon/Bathory was influenced by Venom as you can see/hear on their first 2 albums... then he developed his own style (In my opinion) on Under the sign and Blood Fire Death... then he was influenced by Manowar and switched to "Viking" I remember reading about that years ago, but he blamed the drummer who was obsessed with Manowar... Bathory was a one man band by then...
He even admitted to it in an interview with MTV if you didn’t know (you can find it on here). He said he was inspired by a “certain Newcastle band” and Venom are originally from Newcastle so there you have it
Ese Cronos se pasa de ridículo. La imagen en el Metal siempre ha sido influencia tras influencia y él creyendose como el maximo dueño, cuando la verdad es que Bathory frente a Venom siempre tuvo mas diversidad musical.
Sinister King Ok cool but they did not have the Black Metal sound. They just had the attitude. Bathory created Folk Metal AND Black Metal. Stay jealous. Venom was just darkened heavy metal if you can even it call it that so to speak.
Most of the people commenting about who invented what never witnessed it to begin with. So, if you weren't there, shut the hell up about things you've just learned from Wikipedia or some millennial FB metal page. Without Venom, there won't be no Bathory and thus any no wave of black metal (the Scandinavian scene, expecially. Quit bullshitting and acting like you've been there.
Both amazing bands in my opinion but Venom became way less consistent when they lost Mantas the first time and they've never really fully recovered from that. Bathory on the other hand basically created true black metal and continued to progress technically and stylistically throughout the years they even created another genre viking metal truly an amazing band.
Quorthon was super petty and childish for not acknowledging Venom in his lifetime. But Clearly, Cronos is super petty and childish for not letting it go a decade after the man passed away. Musicians are the worst. God.
I’ll pick Venom everytime! I would have more respect for Q if he owned up to his influences, but he was a plagiarist. The drawing of the goat on the debut is, in reality, an illustration found in a book by American feminist Erica Jong. The artwork for his “In Memory of”, is a painting by Frank Frazetta, with demon wings added. dennisdread.blogspot.com/2011/05/occult-roots-of-metal-iconography_896.html?m=1 Enough has come to light to make anyone see that you can’t take what Q said as truth. He and Boss tried to create mystique around the Bathory name, maybe? That’s easy to pass off on Scandivanian kids in the 80s, but kids in the UK and N. America had already heard and saw Bathory’s sound and image in Venom! Lastly, Quarthon completely turned his back on and denounced black metal, while Cronos has mostly stayed the same course, without sounding like Cartman!😆
I would have liked to see Venom go in either a more hellhammer style or like Cronos solo album style of 80s metal, the calm before the storm stuff was great. Too bad Prime evil happened. :/ No Cronos no Venom !
Bathory in their early days played a very Venom and Motorhead style speed/thrash metal with harsh vocals, it wasnt to around UTSOTBM when they really progressed and changed from that style, then they progressed further with their BFD album with viking themes, more melody and complexity as well as slower tempos
I've heard it put best like this: Black Sabbath invented heavy metal and Judas Priest perfected it. Venom invented black metal, Bathory took from that and made it what it would eventually become today. Case closed. Venom was the first extreme band I ever got into so they will always hold a special place in my heart. I can't stand Bathory fanboys that deny the magnitude of Venom's influence.
Both great bands. Bathory is my favorite band, Venom holds a special place in my heart. I’ll say that Venom invented and started Black Metal. But then Bathory damn perfected it. RIP to Quorthon
correct take
QUORTHON - LEGEND !
@@KEVIN232100 CRONOS -LEGEND !
Venom invented thrash, black metal and even death metal.
Funny thing is that Quorthon (bathory) denied even hearing about Venom when he formed Bathory. This is obviously untrue.
Yes. It would have been great if He just admitted that Venom had a huge influence on Bathory.
this tells a lot of Quorthon , how it was , or maybe the mastermind behind him, the father.
Compare 'Born For Burning' to the very awesome Venom track from the Black Metal album, called 'Don't Burn the Witch'.
Same riff and pretty much the same lyrical theme.
i think that he said all of this just for joking, knowing how obvious was that how big of an influence was venom in his songs
He did say that he did listen to and loved the Black Metal album. Who wouldn’t right? It’s killer.
Venom were great, Bathory was a progression on from that ..both equally important.
Exactly. I agree.
I agree.
He might have been influenced by venom but bathory kicks so much more ass!!!!
Bathory took the concept and took it to unfathomable heights .
You mean stole it lmao, the later albums were much more original und unstolen material
Venom is ground zero for black metal yes yes
Although Venom sorta predicted black metal, Bathory were the ones that really started it first imo and have really influenced the genre the most imo. I personally prefer Bathory over venom but venom is pretty good too
Holy Moses predicted actually
Venom at the time were pretty much considered Motorhead with darker vocals. Everybody borrows from somebody.
Bathory was a one man army(pretty much). And he still kicks their ass. RIP Quorthon
and thats the fucking thruth
Fuck yea
Haha nah Quorthon was just a studio musician who stole from venom everything in his early days, venom is a real liveband, so what are you talking about? 😆
Quorthon stole only 2 songs (begining from Teacher's Pet and song Don't burn the witch) from Venom as i remember . And also stole 2 songs from Metallica (Fight Fire with Fire and Outro from For whom the bells toll)
@@sinisterking6009 4 songs were stolen, where 2 moments are only intro and outro , while quorthone created almost 200 songs. Why do you lie?
I'd rather go with Bathory, ask all Norwegian scene, which band influenced them the most...
Alexander Teixeira Moreira Ask Jonas Akerlund who truly influenced Bathory. I love Bathory but Quorthon saying he "never knew about venom" when he formed Bathory is BS.
@Sinister King put some respect on Sodoms name
And they will respond... Hellhammer/Celtic Frost.
@Sinister King mayhem was actually a Sepultura song on morbid visions (1986) which is kind of black metal as well
*FUCK NORGAY*
Both bands are great, but let's not kid ourselves, we all know Bathory was copying a lot of what Venom were doing.
There's no doubt on the first Bathory album there was obvious and probably deliberate influence from Venom all over that album in every song. I don't think Bathory really came into their own until the second album "The Return.....". Quothon took the Venom influence and made something authentic out of it he could call his own. I love Venom's music and find a lot of brilliance in it that most today and back then could not, but the term Black Metal really meant nothing to them back then when they coined it. It's only been in recent years the original members have provided great definition for what it means to them now. But to me Bathory's "The Return....." was the first 100% Black Metal album. The only band that has a release I feel could challenge this is Sodom's "In The Sign Of Evil".
I think it became a term in 1984. Ive seen posters titled "Black metal night" with venom listed as the: "Masterss of Black metal"
anyway i also think its really strange how on the interviews ive seen of bathory, every one says that "The Return" was disappointing and called shit.
I mean whats wrong with it?
Black Metal became a term in 1982 because Venom's second album was called "Black Metal". And there's nothing really wrong with "The Return....". It's a great album. Back then though it was a VERY acquired taste. A lot of people didn't get it. When the 90's came and Black Metal became a scene though it was considered brilliance looking back on it because it paved the way for everything at that time. Some music is like a fine wine and gets better with age over time.
Not a lot of difference in the first two Bathory albums, the 3rd one is where they got good.
hmpz36911 everybody was copying venom
Never take sides... most i will say is that Cronos always finds a way to make me laugh with how he uses his facial expressions and what not
Both are the fathers of black metal
Let me tell you a little of the "Black Metal" at the time. Back then it was not important, all those bands like Venom, Exiter and Mercyful Fate that were formed on late 70's developed something that were known as Heavy Metal Underground as being more extreme on speed and heavines as well on topics, that in between 1979 and 1981. Many more bands appeared and, in 1982 Venom coined the name Black Metal on their 2nd album. By 1983 and 1984 terms like Speed Metal, Thrash Metal, Death Metal and Black Metal started to be use in order to clarify a little more the style of any band. But again, it was nothing important, the important was that we had heavier bands than Maiden, WASP, Priest, Scorpions, Motley Crue and Plasmatics on that moment. As defined at the time, Death Metal was supoused to be that on which dead, death, dark, and zombie topics were held on the lyrics of the songs accompained with guttural-demonic voices. Hence, at the time Death Metal bands were: Early Sodom, early Bathory and Hellhammer. Then after when Hellhammer took the shape as Celtic Frost, when realeasing Morbid Tales, Noise records declared that Celtic Frost music is Heavy Metal or, perhaps Death Metal.
On the other hand, Black Metal were those bands with open Satanic topics. Bands like Venom and Mercyful Fate were inducted on this genre. Even some people categorized Slayer as Black Metal. Possessed was considered Black Metal at the time as well by 1985 and 1986 with Seven Churches and Beyond the Gates.
It happened when Screem Bloody Gore by Death was declared to be "Death Metal" and, since Possessed sounded like them (but not to forget Possessed was first and it was Jeff Beccerra who inspired Chuck Shuldinger's vocal style at the begining), Possessed was converted into Death Metal. And, since Sodom, Bathory and Hellhammer/Celtic Frost inspired bands like Mayhem, they were moved to the Black Metal scene. Incredible, the creators of the Black Metal VENOM are not considered as Black Metal now.
But do not forget this....BLACK METAL IS VENOM!!!!, there is not other band which is Black Metal, but VEEENNOOOMMM!!!!!
@@antoniorc8795 Absolute bullshit. Bathory made black metal.
@@antoniorc8795 well Wasp in their early demos were quite heavy ...
And extreme . And was darker
Demos as Show no mercy and the torture never stops were thrashy .
And the vocals of blackie were very agressive .
Some Screams , along the stage prescence , influenced Black metal or death metal whatever .
Master of disaster in the chorus and At the central part has kind of Scandinavian black metal touch to it .
And adding the Sister incarnation with the demos sex drive ... it still more classic heavy metal but there s a darkness and abrasive stuff to it .. and the screaming is to me kind of root of what happen later . (1976-1978 ) where they created all the image stuff 4 years before Venom and stuff .
Spikes , Make up , pentragam ...etc .
@@antoniorc8795 but at the end of the day its a Critics or fan matterz .
As real musician" styles " are not separate in your mind .
For theses bands they were doing just their extension of Heavy metal and stuff ..
Thats why every record was different and visionary ..
Instead of repetitive codes of followers .
@@Nissardpertugiu you are right, WASP, what a great band....Blackie and Co.really scared many new bands at the time.Yes they were really bizarre at the time they started...no doubt Slayer, Hellhammer, SoDoM,...etc were inspired by WASP
Bathory \m/
Tom G Warrior off in the corner...
"TrAsH!"
Shut up if you were not there when it all happened. I love Bathory. But it is obvious that without the mighty Venom there‘d be no Bathory. Sail Hatan!
1:00 I shit myself for a moment there,i thought that was corpsegrinder at first glance
Gran Quorthon, cuál otro señor?! El GRAN QUORTHON que dejó buenísima música y un legado! 🐺
He is right , indeed, however , that hardly obscures the fact that Quorthon was light years ahead of Venom in terms of talent in general , having even created musical styles besides Black Metal which Quorthon is mostly known for and helped pioneer .
To me his Viking metal phase ( ´Hammerheart` ) / Robert E. Howard/early Manowar inspired " Blood on ice " classic album / eclectic, classical, experimental " Twilight of the Gods " phase ... even his punk/metal albums and experiments like " Destroyer of worlds" are just as relevant as what he did for Black/thrash ( we often would call Bathory Thrash in the mid/late 80s ).
A body of work light years ahead of what Venom have accomplished through their entire career .
Well said. Yes, Venom started something, and Quorthon was inspired by Venom's sound and attitude (and not just Venom), but most of Venom albums are something that I will listen to once or twice and forget, while I can listen to most of Bathory albums whenever I want. Venom is more of a hard rock band, nothing too serious.
Actually you are aware that , hahah, even though I never believed him , Quorthon used to say that he´d never even heard Venom before his debut album, that he was influenced by early GBH and other punk bands instead . I find that impossible but yeah, we were used to Quorthon saying the most far fetched s***, contradict himself , like saying he produced an entire movie and somehow the tapes were ruined , the video for ´One road to Asa bay` having been little parts they were able to recover from a 1000 hour footage or whatever he said back then , haha ... so yeah, with Quorthon , you never know ... like when ´Blood on Ice` came out right after Twilight of the Gods ... this guy comes out and says that it was an album he had * created ( that must have confused you, just edited it ) between ´blood, fire, death` and ´ Hammerheart` and chose not to release it cause he was afraid the people who were into Bathory would have disliked it for its obvious early Manowar influences ! Well, listen to that album and tell me it doesn´t sound much more ´sophisticated` / mature than ´Hammerheart` ( even though this last one is my favourite ) .
Oh shit, sorry for the long post , most shit you´ve probably read somewhere anyways .
Haha most of it but not all, thanks! :-) Yeah, he was a mystery and still is, but it's still fun trying to decipher everything even years after his death. Apparently he said there were two more videos after "One Rode" but no one knows where there are. I totally agree about "Blood on Ice", that album is so full of ideas and innovation that even the "Nordland" duo sounds simpler (damn, I wish someone released "Nordland 3 - even just the ideas, whatever they had, working tracks, I don't care) and "Blood" and "Hammerheart" are two of my favorites. Yes, "Hammerheart" is more, let's say, legendary, but still I find myself humming "Man of Iron" or "Woodwoman" more often. Apparently he made "Blood" right after "Twilight" but before the release they re-recorded or added some more stuff, he wasn't entirely happy with the original version. Good old Quorthon, I still sometimes read his interviews. Like saying Boss couldn't possibly be his father as Boss was too young (then you see his obituary and realize he lied when he said he was 18 when he recorded the first album) - maybe because one of the Mayhem guys said Quorthon's dad was his producer and wrote all the songs for him - I believe they worked together and bloody hell, if my dad was a label owner and had a studio my music still wouldn't be better than Bathory, haha. Well, Boss is now dead too, but we still have the music. And no matter what he said, we have to admit it was memorable. :-)
Absolutely !
Well the thing about Quorthon on not knowing about Venom is even clarified by Jonas °Akerlund.
On the other hand, during early 1988, been a teen on that time, I was waiting for the next album from Bathory (after the Under the Sign of the Black Mark, released on 1986). A local radiostation (Rock 101, with a program called Heavy Metal Subterraneo) was dedicated fon an hour to all Underground Metal. And I remember that the radiostation-man said it clear on early 1988 that "it is roumored that there is a comming album from Bathory, it is said it will be called ---The Ice---, and will be released on this year". That is all what he said. On about November 1988, the radiostation presented a song from the new album from Bathory, the song was "For All Those Who Died", but radiostation never mentioned the name of the album, since, according to them, they did not know the name, they just received a tape with that song. By December 1988 I went to aquire the new album, expecting to be called "The Ice", but to my surprise it was called "Blood Fire Death". Remember that on that time internet did not existed and every communication and interchanges were held mainly throughout postmailling. Seems that it may be true that Quorthon had that plan, and I was surprised about 8 years after when "Blood on Ice" was released and knowing a little after that it was supoused to be released by 1988 or 1989.
Venom coined the term Black metal but it was Bathory that pioneered the music. Huge fan of both bands either way what ever you wanna call them
like a comment said, quorthon denied venom (at some point doing the dumb of their existance claiming that everything he did, started from "zero"), but in an mtv interview he said that in the beginning they were influenced by motorhead and SOME NEWCASTLE BAND, what other band from newcastle do you know that had THAT sound? better tom warrior has said in many occasions welcome to hell taught him the darkness in music, and he did the 3 legendary demos in 1983, one year before the s/t bathory, it almost sounds like its impossible not to be influenced by venom in those years
I dont prefer one or another, love both of them, bathory has more good albums and memorable soul-full songs. venom had been a huge influnce in many bands, they were the first to say YES WE ARE IN LEAGUE WITH SATAN and broke that boundary, a lot of extreme material released before the calm album... for me is a tie
The only newcastle band with that type of similar music than Venom was Atomkraft
I understand that Venom inspired Bathory (and not the other way round), but bragging about that publicly is a bit out of taste, especially if Quorthon is dead. It's not the 1st time that Cronos tries to diminish and ridicule the bands that eventually went bigger than Venom (Bathory, Metallica etc.), I think it's hard for him to swallow the fact that there was a time he and Venom were on top, but later they're fell in oblivion. He can't stand the view of kids he taught and inspired in early 80's being now in much higher rank than he is.
Bathory were never "bigger" than Venom.
“a bit out of taste”. Well in is Venom. What else would you expect
He's not even ridiculing or insulting Quorthon or Bathory has a band. He is just stating a fact that Quorthon did what he did, despite the fact that Quorthon denied several times to ever knowing about Venom's existence. I did not think that he was being rude in anyway. And Bathory was never bigger than Venom. Bathory barely even toured. Go up to the search bar and type in "Bathory live." You're not going to find anything. Venom started a lot of what is big today. The trash metal, death metal, speed metal, black metal they all did first. Bathory, Metallica, Slayer, Death, Mayhem, Celtic Frost, and Pantera just did it better.
Venom was bigger...but not better. Bathory is better...faster more creative in the song structure. Venom is good...but...to me. I always looked at venom as a more satanic moterhead
eh , i wouldn't look too into it - just by the way Cronos said it was in a humorous manner - i'm sure he has the upmost respect for Quorthon - either way, Venom and Bathory are amazing
Would you fake fans please stop saying that Quorthon copied Venom or got lots of influence from Venom ? I think bathory got some influence from Venom but really not that much.Quorthon said he was just playing punk and Motörhead-type stuff before he founded Bathory. BlackSabbath/Motörhead/G.B.H were actually the bands that influenced him,even including Exploited/Exciter but not Venom.And he used to be a Kiss fan when He was a kid. Why you guys like to force this man to admit things that didn’t happen to him?
“I don’t think there are any similarities musically between Venom and Bathory at all. But I do think Black Metal (Venom) - which I heard for the first time three months after we formed Bathory - is one of the best albums ever made because it has genuine feeling. At that time there was no speed or thrash around, so Venom were very unique” -Quorthon
U can't fuck w/ Venom come on!! Black Metal title of one of their album says it all 🤘🏻rip Quorthon & props 2 bathory nevertheless
Great video! Have more from this press conference?
Quorthon took a lot of influence from Venom, but in the end he managed to do so much better music than Venom
better according to whom? Venom played thousands of concerts while bathory never played a single concert. That proves Venom had the better music.
@@LXT43 Venom never played very well in the begining .
Bathory was better in that sense , and they did shows in 1983 to 1985 in sweden .
After the music changed so much and became almost impossible to play live .
Ask Primordial guys , Emperor guys and all the fuckin ...
The Bathory Bloodfire , hammerheart ..stuff were very difficult to play live .
So they understood why he never toured .
Anyway the musical changes and evolution doesnt lie about Bathory .
No dismissing about Venom .. but thats true .
Sure now Venom is more musical competent ..
But not the same .
@@Nissardpertugiu What was he doing in Portugal? Was he giving a concert there? he was there with the Hammerheart album
@@madq5014 a promo tour for hammerheart
@@LXT43 you are kidding right? You are high right? Venom were garbage compared to Quorthons music
Quorthon es Quorthon....
Bathory por siempre
Hail Bathory Hail Venom Unforgettable Bands
Quorthon/Bathory was inspired by Venom and clearly a massive fan.
If there was no Bathory their would be no second wave black metal that’s for sure
I won't deny Venom's importance in influencing black metal. But to me, their music sucks compared to Bathory's. Bathory all the way! Hails!
Bathory name and other similarities aside, the transition from The Rite Of Darkness to Reap Of Evil is a straight ripoff of Buried Alive - Raise The Dead. These few seconds are more proof than anything.
That said, I'm a Bathory fan forever while Venom were okay for 2-3 albums max.
But isn't that only the first few lyrics that are similar with buried alive? The song itself sounds nothing like Buried alive though.
I like Venom 1987-1992 albums.
Its a great evolution and its different.
There s great musical parts in it too.
Cast in stone is a great record to me
Venom however swings better than Bathory
Venom are like the black metal version of Possessed. Both killer bands in their own right and planted the seeds for black metal and death metal respectively by having songs with the title of respective genres but to me and countless others - Bathory and Death perfected said aforementioned genres respectively. Only difference being that Chuck straight up said Possessed were the first whereas Quorthon tried badly to cover up the influence - personally I think this would have been down to fear of being sued by Venom and Neat Records and advice from Boss to deny being majorly influenced by Venom. The 80's! What a crazy time eh?!
the influence of venom towards bathory is too strong for me to believe quorthons denial
too any riff similarities, album production shares so much in common, lyrics too!
Did the one guy say there was a rivalry between them and Abbath?
Both are great band’s
el otro señor...
como si fuera cualquier persona el "otro señor"
ElLocoJurgen
Eso mismo pensé!!! Quorthon es legado!!!
Vieja pendeja
Pinche mojigata igualada
Venom clearly had a some kick more... Venom never was a black metal act despite their lyrics and their Black Metal album; their musical roots were closer to punk and metal. They kept a melodic thread in it, which kept them less niche (therefore more modern). As a matter of fact they still are around and still kick asses.
Their musical roots...
Dude you think Venom roots were black metal ?
Abaddon is born in 1959, Mantas 1961 , Cronos 1963.
They were the first, they can't be influenced and have black metal roots.
But they had some ranges of influences growing up in the time they did.
As opposite to modern bands that listen 1 type of shit.
Others bands such Celtic frost...were influenced by Venom along the way, but their roots weren't extreme metal at all as you think.
I spend the new years eve 2019 witb Stephen priestly in Zurich , his first hero idol was Gene Krupa, not black metal.
Bathory kicks ass
Pfft. Bathory. Harduh. Every band has an influence but that fucking influence does not come up with the sound the band creates. Whether they want to admit who their influence was doesn't fucking matter. Venom MAY have been part of the influence butt they couldn't possibly create what Bathory has.
A Venom and Bathory concert would have been legendary
I would go for venom because
1. I love them
2. They influenced almost every band that i love like Slayer and Metallica
Venom is very influential and super important to the birth of extreme metal scene, but I think that musically speaking, Bathory (Quorthon) was on another level, especially from Hammerheart onwards.
Of course Quorthon knew about Venom..But Bathory turned out to alot better than venom, but they were pretty good too the first 3-4 records..
The Nordic metal albums is where Quorthons true genius was
@@MikeHunt90731 I prefer the early stuff. When I heard the first record I was sold..My favorite is Under the sign of the black mark.. But a couple of my friends are into the nordic stuff, i've tried but nope i just can't get on board with that.
@@victorwho744 I don't understand why not? The music progressed so much from a blur of noise to actual beautiful harmony and melody.
@@MikeHunt90731They want the satanic shit. But Quorthorn as a song writer increased 10 fold. So did his riffs. Before then, a lot was really Motörhead and Venom inspired. Then he got into Manowar and metallica
@@outis439-A Quorthon invented 2 genres hands down
venom fueron los pioneros bathory acentuo el sonido duela a quien le duela. adoro a los 2 grupos soy gran fan de ambos pero VENOM fue el inicio del del black metal
How come Cronos writes with his left hand?? And plays bass with the right one!
Maybe he is ambidextrous.
@@someshkadam2441 Probably. :)
You know damn well Cronos has way more stories than that...
Quorthon eventually hated whole black metal scene so he wouldnt care shit about his past records or venom. I mean he was like 17-year old kid at time and lived past it.
legend vs legend
HUHH MAN IT WAS IN MY CITY FROM COLOMBIA AND I DIDNT EVEN REALESE ABOUT IT
BATHORY !!!!
Quorthon/Bathory was influenced by Venom as you can see/hear on their first 2 albums... then he developed his own style (In my opinion) on Under the sign and Blood Fire Death... then he was influenced by Manowar and switched to "Viking"
I remember reading about that years ago, but he blamed the drummer who was obsessed with Manowar... Bathory was a one man band by then...
bathory for sure
do i see corpse grinder
Venom invented it, Bathory perfected it. But whenever Quorthon said he wasn't inspired by Venom, he was clearly lying
He even admitted to it in an interview with MTV if you didn’t know (you can find it on here). He said he was inspired by a “certain Newcastle band” and Venom are originally from Newcastle so there you have it
The question is Venom or Bathory ? CELTIC FROST only !!! Ugh!
0:43
Ese Cronos se pasa de ridículo. La imagen en el Metal siempre ha sido influencia tras influencia y él creyendose como el maximo dueño, cuando la verdad es que Bathory frente a Venom siempre tuvo mas diversidad musical.
naaah bathory of course kicks venom's ass. he's talking about fashion. musically bathory was heavier and more influential in folk and black metal.
Bathory ripped off Venom's song titles and riffs. Both bands are great but you can't compare a real band like Venom with a studio band like Bathory.
It was a well known fact back then, Bathory ripped off Venom like crazy. Studio 'band' indeed.
Sinister King Ok cool but they did not have the Black Metal sound. They just had the attitude.
Bathory created Folk Metal AND Black Metal. Stay jealous. Venom was just darkened heavy metal if you can even it call it that so to speak.
Bathory's debut album has so much Venom plagiarism lyrically that it's almost comedic
I love Bathory but Venom is GOD!
Most of the people commenting about who invented what never witnessed it to begin with. So, if you weren't there, shut the hell up about things you've just learned from Wikipedia or some millennial FB metal page.
Without Venom, there won't be no Bathory and thus any no wave of black metal (the Scandinavian scene, expecially. Quit bullshitting and acting like you've been there.
Both amazing bands in my opinion but Venom became way less consistent when they lost Mantas the first time and they've never really fully recovered from that. Bathory on the other hand basically created true black metal and continued to progress technically and stylistically throughout the years they even created another genre viking metal truly an amazing band.
what are you 14? lol
Bathory >>>>>>>>>>
Not a very good argument 😂
Bathory+Sarcófago.
Cronos es una leyenda viva, por desgracía Quorthon no tuvo tanta suerte.
Quorthon was super petty and childish for not acknowledging Venom in his lifetime. But Clearly, Cronos is super petty and childish for not letting it go a decade after the man passed away. Musicians are the worst. God.
He answered a question, he didn't just start complaining out of nowhere.
No Venom, No Bathory. No Bathory, still plenty of VENOM! At this point in time there's two Venoms, no Bathories.
Bathory is more influential Einstein 🤣
I’ll pick Venom everytime! I would have more respect for Q if he owned up to his influences, but he was a plagiarist.
The drawing of the goat on the debut is, in reality, an illustration found in a book by American feminist Erica Jong.
The artwork for his “In Memory of”, is a painting by Frank Frazetta, with demon wings added.
dennisdread.blogspot.com/2011/05/occult-roots-of-metal-iconography_896.html?m=1
Enough has come to light to make anyone see that you can’t take what Q said as truth.
He and Boss tried to create mystique around the Bathory name, maybe?
That’s easy to pass off on Scandivanian kids in the 80s, but kids in the UK and N. America had already heard and saw Bathory’s sound and image in Venom!
Lastly, Quarthon completely turned his back on and denounced black metal, while Cronos has mostly stayed the same course, without sounding like Cartman!😆
Bathory=black metal
Venom=Motörhead metal(copycat)🤣
@@grim9403 How many live shows did daddy’s boy play?
Did he even play or sing on these albums? No one really knows…
@@tojorozombie Venom=satanic motörhead🤣
Bathory=black metal
@@grim9403 yeah, you said that already?
@@tojorozombie I said Bathory is better
Bathory foi muito mais superior. Venom foi mais marketing.
I would have liked to see Venom go in either a more hellhammer style or like Cronos solo album style of 80s metal, the calm before the storm stuff was great. Too bad Prime evil happened. :/
No Cronos no Venom !
You kidding ? ABADDON ripps on Prime evil
Mantas too
@@Nissardpertugiu yeah.... sure he did
Venom Black fucking metal
BATHORY .Black metal
VENOM. Motorhead metal
Venom never play Black Metal , Bathory always in early days.no more comments .
Bathory in their early days played a very Venom and Motorhead style speed/thrash metal with harsh vocals, it wasnt to around UTSOTBM when they really progressed and changed from that style, then they progressed further with their BFD album with viking themes, more melody and complexity as well as slower tempos
finally, a fact
When you first create black metal , its obvious you don't start to play it as it didnt have archetype for that
Use your head a second
Quorthon el verdadero padre del black metal!
If venom doesn't Exist , bathory is a glam rock now🤡
Bathory is heavier than Venom.
I've heard it put best like this: Black Sabbath invented heavy metal and Judas Priest perfected it. Venom invented black metal, Bathory took from that and made it what it would eventually become today. Case closed.
Venom was the first extreme band I ever got into so they will always hold a special place in my heart. I can't stand Bathory fanboys that deny the magnitude of Venom's influence.
what is this arguing bullshit? both are awesome and in my top 5 favourite bands
Una leyenda viva
I'd rather go with Bathory, ask all Norwegian scene, which band influenced them the most...