@DaveRat there is something magical about outdoor music where the sound travels and the harshness smoothes out. Almost like it picks up other energy while it travels.
I agree! And one of the complaints I have about modern sound systems is they can be configured to force high frequencies farther. But there can be a beauty to the warmth of far away sound naturally dulling . I love all the complexities
Our house is ten meters from a lake and I love when there's fog and a band plays in the the village on the other side, because something crazy happens with the sound where everything sounds like an Ambient chill-out remix
I used to live about 4kms, in a easterly direction, from an open cut coal mine. On summer nights, with a slight breeze coming in from the west, we could hear the links of the dredger conveyor belts clinking. The power station was behind a hill on the other side of the mine so we couldnt hear that. The inversion layer effect, particularly as the dark soil in the mine held the heat after a sunny day, was enough to sometimes make the clinking loud enough to be intrusive. The dredger were electrically powered BTW so do engine noise.
I read that this effect is causing havoc in some towns in NY/NJ/PA across the Delaware/Hudson Rivers, when people with loud car sound systems are having competitions in the middle of the night, and the people living on the opposite shores of these rivers are complaining about the noise.
this is cool its kinda the opposite effect you showed in the tea light candles crowd temp experiment which makes sense with temp decrease instead of increase.
I too am always observant of sound propagation, etc. Of course the temp as explained ... but it's not just the temp that's at play. - there's essentially nothing to diffract, and diminish the sound energy ... vis-à-vis ground propagation - the viewing position is somewhat ground plane ....so a pressure maxima, right?
Well, the difference is that for the same scenario with very flat unobstructed land, we tend to most often experience the opposite. Wherin the sun heats up the ground and the ground holds the heat and the air is cooler so the sound refracts upwards but is typically not refracted back downward again. Though I don't have a lot of experience with large flat snow covered fields, I believe it's highly probable that the same scenario would exist for cold ground and warmer air as happens over the lake. But sound over water has a unique aspect because of the cooling effect of evaporation and has a different sound than we experience than doing shows in the desert or over a parking lot or other ground planes that hold heat
This reminded me of something else... all that steam during a rocket launch. They pour 300,000 gallons of water to suppress the sound during a launch. Otherwise, it would shatter every window for 30 miles- annnd this is 100% unrelated to the phenomenon discussed in this video, sorry!
Super cool and yes having the water diffuse the sound to prevent damage to the rocket and prevent sound from radiating destructively outward is super interesting
It's tough as the distances are large and the temperature variations can be subtle . But warm ground and cold air will steer the sound upward and reduce the issues ua-cam.com/video/_lB8e9OY0-U/v-deo.html
The fans may be more noisy than the actual issue as they'll be closer and doing the exact same thing. Trying to solve sound issues at a distance is always more expensive and complex than solving them at the source. The issue I believe is around 25 to 35 Hertz that is causing the most problems. To mitigate those frequencies we need structures that are significant in size compared to the wavelength of the frequencies involved. So structures and baffles that are multiples of a 40 ft wavelength in dimension will have minor to moderate impacts And the farther they are from the source the bigger they need to be
You must be playing it loud if it's 6 or 7 miles away, I would have thought your hear a lot at that distance especially with ambient background noise and traffic and other things and being indoors . If you got some boats you could spray fine mist of water making a wall of water that would do it. But Let the people hear the music I'm sure they enjoy it, what is playing?
The wavelength that's causing the issue is around 30 Hz so it's a quite long wavelengths up and around 40 ft in length Boats and mist is not going to change it. To divert sound the obstruction will need to be multiple wavelengths in dimension. So the cause a slight change in the audio we need things that are 120 ft high and wide or bigger. The only way I can look at reducing those frequencies at distance is to reduce the amount of energy in those frequencies radiated in that direction
@@DaveRat don't see why the water wall shouldn't work? I mean it is a dampener they use it at NASA for when rockets take off to dampen the noise, what is a lot more powerful than any sound system. Another way is you could have speakers playing towards the sound source out of phase of the frequencys you want to dissipate/dampen like noise cancelling headphones that should work!
Water on launch pads is used to reflect damaging sound energy away from the rocket. The water is blasted and displaced.and is perpendicular to the the sound source To reflect sound here for the show, creating a blasting and displacing water situation would be louder than the problem we want to solve Also here the water is parallel to the sound sound source and creating a gravity defying silent perpendicula massiver wall of water may prove a challenge beyond current human capabilities As far as creating out of polarity anti sound, due to the inverse square law, that can not work if the sound source and anti source are separated by anything beyond a small distance, typically less than a wavelength Think that through. If sound drops at 6 db per double of distance and the sources are differing distances, then the volume levels of the source and anti sound can only be correct to cancel for a small area, there will never be a "correct volume" that does not make it quieter without also making it louder in that dir xtions at other distances.
I played several shows upon big platforms of wood upon the Sea, i noticed all the bass frequencyes disappeared (tons too) after 3/4 meters away from speakers and all the tone Is tiny and s...ty😂. I tried a couple of 18" subs bass-reflex too but nothing changed. Do you think Is water guilt? Or platform guilt? These fireworks were plenty of their bass frequencyes?
Sitting outside in the summer we can hear every word spoken in the boats that putt by. I don’t anyone realizes they are heard by all they pass by! Some interesting conversations!
... I feel like I've been tricked into watching someone's firework video... by taking advantage of my curiosity of these kind of aspects of sound physics you got me to watch your firework video. I can't even watch my own firework videos if I record one... the lack of fidelity in visual & audio, normally just ruins it for me. But by distracting me with curiosity... I actually watched a firework video for more than 10 seconds. What is this magic?
@@DaveRat This is illegal, you're not supposed to say things I agree so profoundly with. Also, I tested this concept out at home. There is a fireplace on the rooftop of my apartment, and I set my phone near the lip and every so often the heat from the fireplace gets blown over the phone speaker (not hot enough to damage phone) the sound propagates differently when a gust of warm air rushes over the phone... almost like I can acoustically hear the profile of the rising heat as though I had an infrared camera or something like that. That was ... a description and a half.
I'd love love talk to you about mitigation and control in a room. Working a venue now where there is insane reverb and generally "too loud". Should I email ya for rates for consulting?
The size of blockades that could have relevant amounts of impact, gets big really fast if you're not fairly close to the source. If you get a several city blocks away the size of a substantial blockade starts to get into needing to be a city block or bigger in size. Though I don't think there's a lot of good data in this region where tests have been done measuring sound at long distances with and without massive floating structures at various distances and sizes. I steered away from this as a potential solution due to the pure complexity and cost factors involved as that avenue seems to give very little bang for the buck or more accurately very little reduction of bang for the buck
Yeah I looked at creating out of polarity sound or other barrier type concepts but trying to solve sound issues at a distance is astronomically larger, more expensive, and more complex than resolving the issues at the source. Kind of like having a fountain of ink in the middle of a white carpeted room. Preventing the ink from getting everywhere is always going to be a hell of a lot easier than trying to clean up the ink once it gets away from you
Absolutely, perhaps exploding cummin curry sauce in the kitchen. Clean up time will be an all day event and permanent stains are all but inevitable and meanwhile enjoy snacks and kicks of the yellow goo to your hearts content
lived on the water all my life. Always thought it was a trip how you could talk to people half a mile away.
Super interesting and not understood as much as it should be
I watched a fireworks show from a boat on lake Michigan, and the sound propagation was surreal. Physics is real life magic.
Sound on the water, FIRE IN THE SKY!!!!
👍👍👍🎛️😄
@DaveRat there is something magical about outdoor music where the sound travels and the harshness smoothes out. Almost like it picks up other energy while it travels.
I agree! And one of the complaints I have about modern sound systems is they can be configured to force high frequencies farther. But there can be a beauty to the warmth of far away sound naturally dulling .
I love all the complexities
Our house is ten meters from a lake and I love when there's fog and a band plays in the the village on the other side, because something crazy happens with the sound where everything sounds like an Ambient chill-out remix
I used to live about 4kms, in a easterly direction, from an open cut coal mine. On summer nights, with a slight breeze coming in from the west, we could hear the links of the dredger conveyor belts clinking. The power station was behind a hill on the other side of the mine so we couldnt hear that. The inversion layer effect, particularly as the dark soil in the mine held the heat after a sunny day, was enough to sometimes make the clinking loud enough to be intrusive. The dredger were electrically powered BTW so do engine noise.
It’s always cool to sit back and learn.
Thanks
Cool cool thank you
you're so wise... thank you for this amazing science.
🤙👍🤙
Interesting topic!
Awesome thank you Franco!
superb, thank for sharing, god bless....
🤙👍😁
I read that this effect is causing havoc in some towns in NY/NJ/PA across the Delaware/Hudson Rivers, when people with loud car sound systems are having competitions in the middle of the night, and the people living on the opposite shores of these rivers are complaining about the noise.
Yep I could see that being an issue
Yea just happened the other day, everybody couldn't figure out where the noise was coming from bc it sounded like it was over in a nearby park LOL
👍🤙👍
I experiences this temperature-affect while sitting at a campfire. The voices across from me take on a random *phlanging* effect!
🤙👍👍
I just made a post about campfire ! I use a mono music source.
this is cool its kinda the opposite effect you showed in the tea light candles crowd temp experiment which makes sense with temp decrease instead of increase.
I too am always observant of sound propagation, etc.
Of course the temp as explained ... but it's not just the temp that's at play.
- there's essentially nothing to diffract, and diminish the sound energy ... vis-à-vis ground propagation
- the viewing position is somewhat ground plane ....so a pressure maxima, right?
Well, the difference is that for the same scenario with very flat unobstructed land, we tend to most often experience the opposite.
Wherin the sun heats up the ground and the ground holds the heat and the air is cooler so the sound refracts upwards but is typically not refracted back downward again.
Though I don't have a lot of experience with large flat snow covered fields, I believe it's highly probable that the same scenario would exist for cold ground and warmer air as happens over the lake.
But sound over water has a unique aspect because of the cooling effect of evaporation and has a different sound than we experience than doing shows in the desert or over a parking lot or other ground planes that hold heat
This reminded me of something else... all that steam during a rocket launch. They pour 300,000 gallons of water to suppress the sound during a launch. Otherwise, it would shatter every window for 30 miles- annnd this is 100% unrelated to the phenomenon discussed in this video, sorry!
Super cool and yes having the water diffuse the sound to prevent damage to the rocket and prevent sound from radiating destructively outward is super interesting
There's no music in 4th of july fireworks ?
The music that goes with the fireworks is broadcast over the radio so people can tune in to it if they wish
www.bigbear.com/events/annual/4th-of-july/
As much as I hate fireworks, as it is unfair on animals and wildlife, I still think this is some cool science
What techniques would you use to decrease the sound traveling over the water?
I am working on that, at some point I will post info on the successes and/or failures
is it better to have cooler air to stop the sound? or does it even matter?
It's tough as the distances are large and the temperature variations can be subtle .
But warm ground and cold air will steer the sound upward and reduce the issues
ua-cam.com/video/_lB8e9OY0-U/v-deo.html
do you think it could be realistic to use some industrial fans and heaters to diffuse sound spilling out from speaker systems to a body of water?
The fans may be more noisy than the actual issue as they'll be closer and doing the exact same thing.
Trying to solve sound issues at a distance is always more expensive and complex than solving them at the source.
The issue I believe is around 25 to 35 Hertz that is causing the most problems.
To mitigate those frequencies we need structures that are significant in size compared to the wavelength of the frequencies involved.
So structures and baffles that are multiples of a 40 ft wavelength in dimension will have minor to moderate impacts
And the farther they are from the source the bigger they need to be
fun stuff😇
You must be playing it loud if it's 6 or 7 miles away, I would have thought your hear a lot at that distance especially with ambient background noise and traffic and other things and being indoors . If you got some boats you could spray fine mist of water making a wall of water that would do it. But Let the people hear the music I'm sure they enjoy it, what is playing?
The wavelength that's causing the issue is around 30 Hz so it's a quite long wavelengths up and around 40 ft in length
Boats and mist is not going to change it.
To divert sound the obstruction will need to be multiple wavelengths in dimension.
So the cause a slight change in the audio we need things that are 120 ft high and wide or bigger.
The only way I can look at reducing those frequencies at distance is to reduce the amount of energy in those frequencies radiated in that direction
@@DaveRat don't see why the water wall shouldn't work? I mean it is a dampener they use it at NASA for when rockets take off to dampen the noise, what is a lot more powerful than any sound system.
Another way is you could have speakers playing towards the sound source out of phase of the frequencys you want to dissipate/dampen like noise cancelling headphones that should work!
Water on launch pads is used to reflect damaging sound energy away from the rocket. The water is blasted and displaced.and is perpendicular to the the sound source
To reflect sound here for the show, creating a blasting and displacing water situation would be louder than the problem we want to solve
Also here the water is parallel to the sound sound source and creating a gravity defying silent perpendicula massiver wall of water may prove a challenge beyond current human capabilities
As far as creating out of polarity anti sound, due to the inverse square law, that can not work if the sound source and anti source are separated by anything beyond a small distance, typically less than a wavelength
Think that through. If sound drops at 6 db per double of distance and the sources are differing distances, then the volume levels of the source and anti sound can only be correct to cancel for a small area, there will never be a "correct volume" that does not make it quieter without also making it louder in that dir xtions at other distances.
3:20 - It sounds like (!) you 'synced' up the delayed sound to match the video!
Yes, he told us at 1:24 that that's what he did, when he added the word "synced" in the picture.
Thank you and exactly
@@theclearsounds3911 Hmm. I missed that!
@@dhpbear2 It wasn't up there very long. Maybe you blinked! 😀
Hi Dave I think this video will be interesting to you. ua-cam.com/video/1t4I1xJZz3/v-deo.html
Can you do sound test for this kind of speaker
I played several shows upon big platforms of wood upon the Sea, i noticed all the bass frequencyes disappeared (tons too) after 3/4 meters away from speakers and all the tone Is tiny and s...ty😂. I tried a couple of 18" subs bass-reflex too but nothing changed. Do you think Is water guilt? Or platform guilt? These fireworks were plenty of their bass frequencyes?
Sitting outside in the summer we can hear every word spoken in the boats that putt by. I don’t anyone realizes they are heard by all they pass by! Some interesting conversations!
Interesting and yes
Awesome topic dude
Cool cool thank you Manny
You (Dave) are awe sum.
For a cheap thrill, sit on the other side of a campfire with a mono speaker on other side. Amazing effects phasing and stereo effects. Best at night.
Awesome. My recommendations are great right now.
High quality video on an interesting topic. Not the typical junk that appears on my feed
... I feel like I've been tricked into watching someone's firework video... by taking advantage of my curiosity of these kind of aspects of sound physics you got me to watch your firework video.
I can't even watch my own firework videos if I record one... the lack of fidelity in visual & audio, normally just ruins it for me. But by distracting me with curiosity... I actually watched a firework video for more than 10 seconds.
What is this magic?
Fun and the fireworks don't matter, it's all about the sound
@@DaveRat This is illegal, you're not supposed to say things I agree so profoundly with.
Also, I tested this concept out at home. There is a fireplace on the rooftop of my apartment, and I set my phone near the lip and every so often the heat from the fireplace gets blown over the phone speaker (not hot enough to damage phone) the sound propagates differently when a gust of warm air rushes over the phone... almost like I can acoustically hear the profile of the rising heat as though I had an infrared camera or something like that.
That was ... a description and a half.
Dave, I always enjoy the wealth of knowledge from you!
I'd love love talk to you about mitigation and control in a room. Working a venue now where there is insane reverb and generally "too loud". Should I email ya for rates for consulting?
Yep, love fireworks on the water. The sound.
very interesting...
🤙👍🤙
i wonder if you could use barges as anti-nodes
The size of blockades that could have relevant amounts of impact, gets big really fast if you're not fairly close to the source.
If you get a several city blocks away the size of a substantial blockade starts to get into needing to be a city block or bigger in size.
Though I don't think there's a lot of good data in this region where tests have been done measuring sound at long distances with and without massive floating structures at various distances and sizes.
I steered away from this as a potential solution due to the pure complexity and cost factors involved as that avenue seems to give very little bang for the buck or more accurately very little reduction of bang for the buck
This makes me want to load out! 😂
👍🤙👍
Large flat boats with diffusion towers to help with sound control. Maybe impractical or maybe some opposition from residents for being an "eyesore".
Yeah I looked at creating out of polarity sound or other barrier type concepts but trying to solve sound issues at a distance is astronomically larger, more expensive, and more complex than resolving the issues at the source.
Kind of like having a fountain of ink in the middle of a white carpeted room.
Preventing the ink from getting everywhere is always going to be a hell of a lot easier than trying to clean up the ink once it gets away from you
Is this 'Ink' you speak of ...edible ? ; )
Absolutely, perhaps exploding cummin curry sauce in the kitchen. Clean up time will be an all day event and permanent stains are all but inevitable and meanwhile enjoy snacks and kicks of the yellow goo to your hearts content
"Sound over water...A fire in the sky"
Thank you Deep Purple. 🙂
The show coming up is Portolaaaaaa! 😭🥹
Love this!
Great Video. 😃👍♥️
👍🤙👍
Could you do a video on the beringer x32?
Here is one, also I have a playlist with a bunch more
ua-cam.com/video/aKfhsPhZPmM/v-deo.html