Each player is hooked up to a battery. The longer you take on your turn, the higher we crank up the voltage. If you can't continue your combo due to electricution, you end your turn.
Casual duelist since starter decks Yugi/Kaiba, here. In all my years of playing this game, I've never constructed a side deck. I've also never joined a tourney, so yeah. I like the idea of, "I see the strategy, now. Let's try to overcome it with my resources." As opposed to, "I'll just side in the out." Idk, just seems more fun to me. Regardless, it's not like such a change would actually affect me.
It's why I like master duel. However the point of side decking is so that you can balance the match up. It effects the meta because without side decking it will usually become one dominant deck and decks just to beat that one deck and are just terrible against anything else.
There are some matches that are basically unwinnable. Like back in duelist alliance format in 2014, if you were playing yang zing and you get matched against a shaddoll player, you may as well just sign the match slip and save both of you some time. You're not winning that match. Shaddolls are the perfect counter to everything yang zings want to do. That's where the side deck comes in. If you sided in stuff like phoenix wing wind blast, compulsory evacuation device, and other stuff that's just really good against shaddolls, then that match becomes a hell of a lot less frustrating. You might actually have a chance. That's the actual purpose of the side deck.
This would be amazing if it was realistically possible. Yugioh especially simply has too many pairings where one side side of the table just isn't capable of winning the match without a side board. My mind jumps to Yang Zing and Shadolls as a perfect example. Yang HAS to be able to side in things like PWWB and Compuls to even give the round a chance in that match up, otherwise you're wasting both yours and the other player's time. Side boards are an okay enough solution to most of the balancing issues in yugioh, but it does make time a lot more of an issue and is 110% worth evaluating changing in some capacity.
@hydrotatsumaster but realistically this doesn't work. Ways to deal with 1 deck do nothing to another and if you're in a wider format you can't account for 5 different decks unless it's exactly a format where everything is weak to the same cards which then just means the format is probably a time where every deck is on the same idea for the worse
I honestly wouldn't normally agree with getting rid of side decks, except for the way they function in the modern game. Nowadays, side decks aren't about getting rid of slightly bad cards in a match-up to replace them with functional cards. Now we replace those cards with insane silver bullets that create non-games.
Yeah, I think we are not taking too much time side decking. So getting rid of side decks would probalby not do too much about the time issue. However, I think I would enjoy a world, where people can no longer just side in their floodgates, that just wins them games instantly - or at least they would have to play them always. And then they most likely become bricks. So, yeah, this idea might actually help. No side deck and playing more in-engine, and playing less non-engine.
@@ThaClipKeepahwe still have anti-spell, dimensional barrier, as well as every other obscure floodgate that are just as toxic but not as good as the one’s that were recently hit.
I'd argue the game is in a place where games need more time due to how much Konami have made the game more complex and more combo/recursion orientated. But they won't do that so probably the only solution is to make it more annoying with timed turns which no one wants lol. Can't fix a problem if the makers of the game broke it to begin with and let it get out of control. I do like the idea of bringing down the power level of all decks for the health of the game so this idea of Paul's is pretty good for that reason.
Side decking shouldn't take alot of time as you would also be thinking about adapting your strategies during the round. If people are intentionally taking alot of time to do so, limiting it to 1 minute seems fair.
1 minute isn’t enough. It’s more about what comes out of your deck than what’s coming in because there can be some dead cards in match up’s and you need time to consider that.
In my playgroup, we don't do siding. Your deck is what it is, and pretty much all of us are happier for it. I enjoy that your deck must be more robust to expand your ability to adapt, as opposed to a focused deck that dies without silver bullets. Then again, we play mostly 3+ player free-for-alls where people die to Thunder Crash, so maybe we're not mentally sound people.
This is why I love universus(previously mha card game) once you go to time, the person who goes second always gets the last turn. So if time ends on their turn that is the last turn
What our locals has talked about for time is You are playing for points. Each game is worth 1 point. When time of round is called the game ends immediately. If your still in game 1 it's a draw. If your in game 3 it's a draw, You are then actively trying to play faster to get that second point.
So if I'm understanding correctly, regardless of if someone is up a game or not. If time is called then it's a draw? Ie: if my opponent won G1 and time is called during G2, it's a draw?
@@worthywill9294 No, chess timers don't end up in draws because each player has their OWN timer, rather than a SHARED 45 minute timer. Time will be called when a player LOSES their time. Chess timer is the same mechanic that is being used in Duel Links and Master Duel. Games will be more skillful.
I do think Master duel would serve as a good testing ground to further this idea, having game 2s and 3s while still prohibiting a side deck could prove good results on the health of the game. I think personally it's a good idea that Konami should start to set into motion either by using Master duel or by shortening the side deck even more. Not only would it allow certain cards to come off of being Banned and Limited because they only got on the list due to their power in the side deck, but it would make people play harder and put more thought into the main deck. Also speaking of Master duel, I believe we should enter a universal state of the game. No more divisions based on Konami's regions, no more separation of TCG & OCG, and everyone get cards and pack releases at the same time of availability. This also includes producing a unified banlist for the game.
2 things First as much as I would love a joint banlist I don’t want Konami Japan making it and they definitely will be Second I think we should try altering the side decking rules a little bit differently first also MD needs to maintain a Bo1 format (with missions and rewards) along side Bo3 it’s good for the casual player so have options Only side deck game 2 so you have to prep for both games so you can’t just put in blow outs and board breakers and time cards so you instead have to focus on balancing your deck to suit the opponents deck or shore up your weaknesses like what this mechanic was intended for
@@robertmahiques6218 Konami Japan has this thing where they refuse to properly hit anything because of how casual the game can be in Japan compared to the west block dragon is still legal for example and to justify it they use maxx C as a crutch to not properly hit things It’s a move that doesn’t translate well because the west doesn’t have the same card game culture you don’t have 12 different TCGs going at a time here you really just pick a game and stick with it and these options mean if you kill a deck the player probably won’t buy a new one since they can just move onto the next game like nothing happened
When me and my friends have duel nights, we play Bo3 with no side decks. It works very good for casual friendly games, as blowout cards and floodgates tend to live in the side deck. Having "going second" cards in the main deck also helps to lower the power level and slow down our little format. When we choose our decks, they have to be able to go first or second without the crutches of the side deck. That said, I don't think that removing the side deck would be good for the competitive scene. It might incentivize Konami to make going-second archetypes more like Tenpai, which not many people seem to like.
There is a difference between nobrainpai that literally has a card that says stop interacting with me, I will now use this spreadsheet combo to win and interesting blind second decks like powerspell striker which has a really good yubel matchup at least in masterduel and is not telegraphed or linear at all
The TCG I enjoy playing most is Duel Masters, and in that game there is no side decking. And in my opinion, it leads to some very interesting deck building dynamic where you have to dedicate deck slots to tech against X, but in order to properly assess just how many deck slots it's worth tech-ing, you need to have a reasonable estimate for how much you will be facing against X. So it really rewards knowing the metagame and the environment you play in. There's also the aspect of "how much consistency am I willing to sacrifice off my main game plan in favor of tech cards?". No side decking also allows more deck variety to exist. There are decks that would get absolutely demolished by certain cards, but they can still exist because not every deck can afford to run those counter cards (whereas if sidedecking were allowed, every single player would side deck the counters, hence those decks would become unplayable). There's a reason why in Magic mono-red is so dominant in bo1 but becomes just kind of a "meh" deck in bo3.
Dragon Ball Super has had Best of 1 Pre-Side formats - basically u build 1 big deck that includes ur side-deck, and after seeing the leader ur opponent is playing, u can sideOUT the cards u dont want to run. I know yugioh doesnt have any 1-to-1 Leader cards, but the idea of having a decklist that INCLUDES your answers is definitely a good idea.
A lot of the game is certainly built around side decking but if you adopted some other rules that let you do side decking but within reason then I'd say it would work. Like in Master Duel tournaments it's "swap your entire deck to your second deck" which could be used in lieu of side decking, maybe make it like "only the person who lost at least 1 game in the match can choose to switch" which for one makes it more streamlined and balanced but also means the person ahead a game can't take 5 minutes just looking through his second deck saying, "Hmm, I dunno, it might not be right for this match..." If you're only allowed 2 decks and only the losing player can swap what this also means is that you can play a second deck as a meta call - if your deck is overall solid but loses to one specific bad matchup then you can choose a second deck curated specifically to just that matchup. In game 3 either player can choose to swap to the other deck.
While I agree the YUIGIOH community as a whole would lose there shit if side deck was removed. as a strictly master duel player and former TCG player it seems like TCG players want to be able to cram as much engine and non engine in there deck and not really think about deck building. If you had to worry about not having a side deck it would literally change the game because you have to decided do you want more engine pieces or give up engine pieces for hand traps board breaker etc
If the game goes to time, it should be an automatic draw. Players exploit slow play rules, so if you punish players for playing slow, they’ll either pay more attention or they’ll be disincentivized from slow rolling
But wouldn't that just punish both players regardless of who was slow playing? If anything, it sounds like it would encourage the losing player to slow play.
Maybe implement some kind of timer for each player on the table like on chess matches so judges can measure if somebody was taking their sweet time too much? Each time a turn finishes and ends, and each time a player tries to interrupt the other player's turn to check field/GY/banish and activate effects they'd have to press said timer. I know this would be really hard to implement for Yu-Gi-Oh, or even most if not all TCGs in general, but I think its a start for a good idea.
I think best solution to time and dice roll together, is got to play all 2 format. Each player has to start once. Win both you get 5 points, win 1 you get 3 points, none you get 0 points. Draw gets you 1 point, draw + did not get to play game 2 is 2 points. Its not perfect, but 2 games means more time per game, and getting burned in time in game 2 does not effect game 1 so less impact.
I've never had a side deck so this change is fine for me. Seriously, for those unsure about this proposal, go to a tournament without a side deck and see how that experience impacts your deck building process
In lorcana for Swiss we play a best of 2 no side deck. Both players go first to help eliminate the advantage of going first. Since we have no side deck you have to deck build knowing you will go second. I think it would help a lot if yugioh just got rid of the side deck and forced you to deck build knowing you will always get to go first and second. Would people run a lot of floodgates knowing they have to go first in each match? How many board breakers do they run because they have to go second? I think it opens up deck building for people and archetypes.
not entirely certain of this, but I'd be under the impression that the player who goes first first has the advantage of being able to better prepare for the second game.
Yes but without a side deck I think it lessens it than the advantage you have now when you side deck and play the best of 3 in the current format. This format challenges players to be able to win going second. Since you only play 2 games.
That's interesting for one piece. I don't think it has to be midrange but midrange becomes best overall. Also I don't think you could give yugioh the mulligan.
@@Majinlaw mulligan if you're second? Edit: They'd have to hit Tenpai even harder to keep them from being too consistent, but it'd help going second with dealing with oppressive first turns.
I have never liked side decking, I have abused it myself before, not for time but to have three warrior eliminations to counter all hero decks and three copies of shadow imprisoning mirror to counter other decks and all of those years ago that was enough to win locals after knowing what deck everyone is playing. Also on the show such as battle city no one got to side deck and I have always liked the idea of just walking around with one deck that can take on the world. Also a hand trap that can be sent from hand when a card or cards is added to either player's hand. No card added to the hand can be played nor any card with the same name as an added card can be played for the rest of the turn. This as a hand trap or as a rule from say the top 16 onward would change everything.
I have an idea of a new Master Rule: If an effect has a Spell be set on the field from somewhere (Deck, Grave, Hand) it shouldn't be able to be flipped face-up and be activated the same turn. This would slow down a lot of the strongest decks out there, but how is it different from adding it into your hand and activating it from there? But listening to Paul as I type this, I agree, side decking is a variable that can't be controlled, and would force people to run staples that interact with your own deck instead of just theirs
The whole setting spells and traps from the deck was made to get around hand traps like Ash Blossom. Literally a solution to a problem konami made, which itself was meant to be a solution to a supposed problem of too much deck to hand effects.
I feel like Side Decking brings more strategic building to the game. I think it would make more sense to build a Best of One format with a Winners and Losers bracket if we want to remove side decking. Or letting people register multiple decks maybe up to 3. It would be harder thought as with some decks being super expensive it would be hard for people to invest in multiple decks.
Sorry I am a side deck stan. It allow me to have options for game 2 & 3 for rogue strats & it allows more deck creativity because you do not have to have every single out or leave holes. Just increase the clock to 1 hour. Also pairs well with hard stop at time that others have mentioned.
As someone who runs a league with no side decking, I must say I love the idea. For a long time now, all my players have been improving their main deck for matches, which has improved their abilities as players. But I can't speak from a competitive standpoint, some people like the idea of the safety that the side deck provides, and I don't compete in official tournaments anymore, so it won't really affect me.
Side deck phase should be just 2 minute before game restart. So clean setup for 1 minutes, side for 2. Shuffle and cut for 1 minute total of 4 minutes or 8 minutes out of the 45 minutes. Remaining 37 minutes means around 13 minutes per round. Then each player has a total of half the allowed time as a chess timer basis.
A rule change that ive been thinking of is mulligans: Only the going second player is allowed to mulligan. If they do, their opponent is allowed to too. If the going first player does, the going second player draws 1 card. (Then ban both mulcharmy)
@@dere7343 I would allow both players to mulligan but every time you do, you draw 1 less card. So if your starting hand is 5, you call mulligan, re-shuffle and draw 4 cards. Rinse and repeat until you are only left with 1 card.
With my friends we have tried a change in format, we call it Ancient format. No direct attack allowed unless the monster fot that effect or get that effect, no Main phase 2, if a monster is destroyed by effect and sent to graveyard the controller get damage equal to the half of the current attack, allow normal set in face down attack position, one monster attack by turn only
I’ve played a lot of Master Duel and a lot of TCG. I think there’s a a mix that could be a much more fair way to side deck. Instead of removing the side deck, we could have a smaller side deck of maybe 6 or 9 cards. I have ran tournaments with 9 side deck cards, and it’s much more fair because you A) have to choose your cards more carefully and B) have less probability in general to draw those outs. This still allows certain decks to prepare for a terrible matchup, but you have to use the 9 slots wisely.
Lately I’ve been playing some different formats with friends, and we are trying a rule. Before the first turn starts, the going second player is allowed to set traps. However, if they chose to activate a trap turn 1, they don’t get a battle phase in turn 2.
Why not just take the Pokemon approach and have a "3 extra turns at time" rule? When time is called, the current player finishes their turn. Then the 3 turns start with the non-time player getting the first and third turns to try to win, while the time player only has one turn do it. Doing it like this, if it's getting close to time, it's actually on the players to get through their turns as fast as possible since being called on time nets you just one extra turn, while the player not called on time gets TWO extra turns. Honestly, why is YGO operating with rules that would so obviously favour slow play? It's set up to make players play so dishonestly. :\
Heres my hot take how to balance extra deck!! Fusion: leave it as it is. Synchro: limit to 5 per extra deck XYZ: limit to to 5 per extra deck Link: removed from extra (is now on main deck) Pendulum: same as before (add extra pendulum scale) [balanced having extra monster zone and link on main deck]
My biggest change I’d make to the game is not being allowed to surrender. Here’s a little story to back up my point. The year was 2021, the world was JUST coming back from the big pandemic, I’d been playing Yugioh already over 10 years very casually, and I mean like “I summon my blue eyes with no tributes and attack directly for 3000, putting you at 1000 LP” casual. I had a vague idea of competitive yugioh at the end of school (2021 for me), and knew about Dragoon, and I found out where my local card shop was so I bought a deck that was just meant to summon dragoon as fast as possible, and I thought this was crazy, in my head I was thinking “Oh my god, only 4 turns to summon this monster”, I get there and immediately get crushed with the meta. This was my first introduction to meta yugioh and where most people got discouraged, I saw this as “Oh, I need to get better, I need to improve”, and I did, I bought a new deck, I’ve been rocking it since, and I love it. But then I decided I wanted to switch it up, and this was right as master duel was coming out, and I thought I’d build the deck there, test it, then bring it to locals and kick some ass. The project is that I didn’t get a chance to play a single game, cuz the second I got any kind of momentum, my opponent would scoop, the same problem happens with things like YGOPRO, YGO-OMEGA, Dueling Nexus, Duel Links, any online yugioh sim, they surrender the second I make one good move, or if they activate ash and I chain called by, and because I spent 6 hours not being able to actually use the deck and see how it plays, I never got the chance to get better with it until I had to use it in a trial by fire at locals, where unfortunately, people do the same thing
Just put a limit to how many times a player can special summon per turn. Ex: One fusion, one synchro, one xyz and one link summon per turn. Also you can special summon only once from the graveyard and the banished zone. Cards that summon multiple monsters at once count as one like DDR
Here's something we can do. You can make it so that the player who's thinking on resolving a card loses when going into time. No more whose LP is higher.
3 rules: 16k life points to guarantee a fourth turn and a comeback Second player draw 6 cards from the start ( no draw phase for first and second players at the start). So the second player can draw his hand draw from the start. Worst feeling when you draw Nibiru in your draw phase Extra deck from 15 to 10 or 8. Only bring what you need
The only real solution is timed turns; but the big problem is enforcement. Each player would have to remember to start/stop the timer whenever a card is responded to. It might be a necessary evil. 5 minutes should be more than enough to make your plays honestly, although I think you should be able to add like 10 seconds when shuffling.
I’m a boomer who liked the og show and also today mostly a mtg commander player, and have briefly tried to get into the game before giving up because i realized it would be no cheaper than mtg and all decks seem to be too combo and chain focused. I say: i think it would be interesting if yugioh became a singleton card game, meaning you can only have a single copy of each card in your deck. Maybe since its yugioh you should be allowed to have 3 copies of a single monster in your deck and thats it (to reflect kaiba’s blue-eyes in the anime). Singleton formats are good because it makes every match different and you cant rely into playing card A followed by card B in order to realiably play card C on every game. It would make decks less explosive and combo centric and more back and forth between both players, as well as making the real life game feel like its anime counterpart for people who try to get into it from watching the show. Good old “i play monster X in defense position, set two cards down and pass my turn” kind of feel. Of course, for that to be effective, konami would have to control itself in order to not print many tutor like effects, as it would defeat the purpose of singleton. Make them scarce and with a lot of drawbacks, as well as banning any over reliable tutors that might already exist.
Bring out the Chess Clock, Set to ten minutes per round, The first to get Time Over is disqualified from the Match, you DON'T regain time during the round.
This. Opening the possibility for the game to play like MD just means I don't have a chance of clawing back games 2 and 3 with good planning of a side board. I already lose too many coin flips on MD.
Konami needs to make their focus and priorities on Master Duel for their competitive scene. The accessibility, the ease to watch it, the variety in the format (for worlds), the affordability. Master Duel has everything going for it to be a very good premiere eSports card game. I hope next year they really go all out for Ranked and Competitive Master Duel.
Interesting discussion and one that I would say I ultimately agree with. I do feel like side decking usually creates more non games and that players would have to make more meaningful decisions in deck building if they had to decide what answers to what playstyles they wanted to include in their main deck. Great discussion. Time rules as they are currently is one of the factors that has completely destroyed my interested in Yugioh tournaments, mostly playing but also some viewing. All the opportunity for time cheese that benefits from a player milking a clock and having to constantly be on people about slow play because if you don't it can usually be in someone's best interest to slow play. That constant micromanaging that's needed just makes playing less fun to a level that I would just rather not play.
The fact that Respect Play is in this videos thumbnail and was played in Ruxins video of the same day is such a hilarious coincidence for a very obsolete card.
I have a change I am curious how it would effect the game but the turn 2 player can set any spells and traps from there hand and use them during the turn 1 players turn mainly to help with traps being to slow and also to stop unbreakable boards a problem I see is it would make stun decks better and force decks to run more back row removal so they don't get floodgated
I'm not sure about a simple bo3 no side deck (though it'd be a neat experiment, if nothing else), but tbh, a part of me would really like to see master duel's worlds system applied to just a regular tournament. 3v3 teams for a best of nine where all members face off against each player in the other team once, with each person having 2 decks and the team's combined decklists cannot have any cards above the legal amount the only change I'd propose is to remove the shared cards rule, which is really effectively just an excuse for everyone to be able to run the maxx "c" minigame package when applied to md worlds
I just started getting into paper play after not doing so since I was a kid. Was playing master duel before that and enjoying myself so figured why not. Honestly for me, the side deck is an after thought. It saves me a little extra not having to have other cards to side deck, and I’m not actively trying to win a regionals or anything, the store I play at isn’t even an OTS, the power level is quite tame, I don’t think anybody there side decks between duels I’ve built 2 decks so far and neither really has much of a side deck
Freaking bring in the Chess timer rule just like in Duel Links and Master Duel. Chess has been using it for over 140 YEARS. ONE HUNDRED FREAKING FORTY YEARS. This literally kills SLOW players and cheese burn decks. It also gives a new way to win. Giving you a chance to win even if your opponent has a a full board. If they are too slow to build their board, their own timer will kill them..
Honestly the md timer system helps so much to balance out long drawn out combo decks, i almost never ever faced infernoble despite it being completely full power in md but it was everywhere at locals, and while it’s nowhere near a top deck it’s super easy for them to spend upwards of 10 minutes building a board that cheeses a game 1 win without running specific outs
That will kill some decks I have definitely almost timed out because of the MD timer (zombies) and actually did during the current event because I didn’t know how to play tearlament
That would be a terrible idea. I summon, repsone? *tap* No response *tap* Activate, response? *tap* No response *tap* You'd be tapping that clock no less than 50 times in a single turn across 2 or 3 games in a 9+ round day. It would get old before you even finish the first turn. It works for chess because it's a completely different game.
@@RG_LoneWolfe It works in Duel Links and MD. What's your point? If you are a slow player or it takes you forever to form your lines/boards, you deserve to lose.
I actually like this idea. In theory side decking is supposed to help with going second, but in practice it just leads to a bunch of floodgates being sided going first. There's also one more hidden upside: Yugioh cards are very expensive and having to bring 15 less potentially expensive cards would help a lot with accessibility.
In Hearthstone we play with 3 or 4 different decks ( depending if it Bo3 or Bo5 with a ban) and there is no side decking. If you want to counter a deck you need to build a entire composition around that strategy, instead of just side decking some cards that destroy the opponent's deck.
I think this is an excellent idea. i recently got my best friend to start to play yugioh and we are planning to play with each other in this exact way, best of threes with no side deck. i think you are right that it adds a level of complexity to the deck building that yugioh side decks change.
Now to pick what should change to help with time while being efficient. I know this may seem hard but hear me out. Deck building rules. Doing this based on kind of like speed duel, but assigning cards a power value and limiting a decks power value to a total. This most likely will kill combo but what eats the most time? Combo and it really feels bad sitting there while your opponent can play and you have to sit there.
The funny thing is Konami has done this in the past in cross duel and duelist of the roses. That way you can also increase the power limit of decks for higher events or lower it for others as well as giving a greater challenge for deck building.
I have a idea. Let's put Yu-Gi-Oh under gym rules (same now except a match win condition). Two ways (only have to pick one and win the full match automatically): 1. Win first game and survive second game until either your opponent surrenders or the timer hits zero. 2. Have more LP in either first or third game.
The second option would lead back to the same meta of having to run dog water burn cards or means to gain life to push yourself to win. Something no one likes because life points functionally don't matter in the game at any point outside of do you have 0 or 1
We here at Vanguard only play Bo1 & we have no side deck & it sucks. There are certain matchups where certain cards are needed to even play against but sucks in 99% of other matchups. Removing side decking not only removes a means counter play, it also makes games more luck reliant than it should. it's going to feel like those "I only lost because my opponent drew the exact out to my strategy" kind of deal.
I don't think the time issue and the side deck issue are the same problem really, but I really like the idea of no side deck. Or maybe place limits on the side that you can only have 1 copy of a card in your side. Like you can run 2 ash, but if you feel you need the third you can side it out. Or reduce the size wholesale? Being able to carry 5, 3 of atom bombs to your opponents deck has always seemed a little gross to me. A lot of tourney matches I've won are exclusively because of side decking, and I don't really feel like that was a good representation of player skill or knowledge.
@@romkin1197did you even think before responding? If you go 2nd and start with 6 cards, it not only allows you to potentially draw an extra counter card immediately but it also allows you to scoop instantly if you brick out because you know your opponent has a great board and you arent going to be drawing another card to save yourself. Saves everyone time.
If the game had a higher minimum card limit for decks, that would reduce the need for a side deck by giving players the extra space to include extra cards they normally would put in the sidedeck. The focus on keeping decks as close to 40 cards as possible for maximum efficiency has done more damage than good to the game imo, and this is just one thing in favour of raising the deck limit to 50 or 60 cards.
No side deck would lead to a Pokémon situation and make it so the gaps between decks gets wider for no reason because you can't build around 3-5 decks at once reasonably unless you really want decks to functionally have Poplar plus ash effects on the monsters they'll design to support this. We already saw how rule changes made card design worse like MR4 and in about 3 months links went from you have to actually commit and consider to this is now your easy to make archtype boss that has beneficial arrows and effects that plus you more
I would think that if you win the coin slip it would be much easier to develop a going second strategy and load up your deck with droplets and dark rulers, etc. Which sounds kinda fun.
I could be down with this. It would be cool to see side decking go away entirely, partially because it's a skill I have yet to master. I could also be down for a total change of format, either to best of 1 or best of 5, with a longer or shorter clock to compensate, or more total rounds to compensate
Side deck prevents good deck building,”oh my deck cant deal with this other deck, or oh this card kills this deck” the first case it just means your deck was poorly made with no prevention of what may happen. And the second will deter the use of insta win cards, for example back when abc was used the side was 3 system down, a card that was an auto win againts abc, if you wanna play that card you now risk drawing it on turn one or againts a non machine deck. Yugioh would become so much more varied in the long run, and yes we would pass like a year or two jumping between degenerate stun decks while those cards get banned and cycled off. But im sure quickly we will find a middle ground.
you know what, I like the idea. I also like the idea of only allowing desk swaps too. deck swaps would be create way more interesting and dynamic matches (with a 1 minute time limit to swap decks). tjhis would also allow for more gimmicky decks that only do well with 1 match before they get stomped by side decks. I like the idea! very interesting!
I'm a fan of dropping side decks. But as for other ideas, maybe allow the going second player to set spells and traps at the end of going first player's first end phase. This would mean going first player gets to pop off with monster effects and setup back row, but going second player can trigger traps in their first turn to try to open a window for their monster setup. Might encourage playing more traps without turning them all into imperm-like hand traps
I think I might like this idea, actually... Except for playing against Lab. Also, it actually benefits imperm by setting it in a column where that effect might go off.
They could always adopt the Lorcana best of 2 format wity no side decks which i think would actually be the most balanced. You cant be sacked by a side deck tech in that directly counters your deck, and you dont lose to dice roll. Each players goes first once. If you can't balance out winning going both first and second you tie.
I like it. It would be cool if there were events based around a rule change. Like imagine a tournament where you start with 2000lp or can only have 2 monsters at a time. It would be cool to see the meta of that environment.
Absolutely right. Game 2 feels really unbalanced and unfair when they side in the blow outs against your deck. I think the option is to ban the blow outs like dimensional barrier and shifter, but this works too. BO1 is based
I think that for competitive tournaments, no 2 players should be able to submit the exact same Deck List. That would stop Tier 0 Formats from happening, if you had to run an entirely different and unique deck from all the other competitors.
Time to play my favorite game: "how long into the video will it be until i find a card that this breaks or conflicts with?" EDIT: 2:44 A lot of tech cards pretty much exist to be included in the side deck in a competitive setting (like the Mulcharmies, Evenly Matched, and Ultimate Slayer to name a few), and overall a change like this hurts skill expression since you may have to now fill your deck with cards that might not be good going either first or second (in other words: the OCG/TCG would become Master Duel but IRL, which i guess could be seen as a plus to people who enjoy how that game plays compared to the paper formats). Not to mention that even in a heavily diverse meta like DUNE/AGOV: the side deck felt pretty limited in terms of addressing every deck in the room. This would be an even bigger problem if you gutted side decks in general. I also don't understand how this would fundamentally fix time rules. It shaves off 6 minutes, but its not like people won't find ways to play decks that add on an additional 6 minutes. Have you SEEN how long pendulum decks can summon for during a single turn? True Draco is still a thing that people play in diverse metas (which we ideally want). This feels like a band-aid fix for powercreep, and we'll probably just end up with the same problem in 2-3 years as decks take even longer to play due to stronger grind games. However: i do have a silver bullet solution. A suggestion I heard on Heart of the Cast (one that's more in line with your suggestion) was adopting Lorcana's "Best of 2" ruleset. How this would work is that until players are decided for top cut, you'd play 2 games with no side decking during each round where both players are given a single game to go first. At least this way there would be more incentive to play decks that are good either going first or second, and decks that "need" to explicitly go first or second would have to adapt if they want to be able to consistently 2-0 and remain meta relevant. This would also help reduce the viability of cringe OTK strategies like Gimmick Puppet without having to murder all their cards on the F/L list because FTKs just fundamentally wouldn't be strong enough to make it to top cut. If they HAVE to play a game where they go second, they're just fucked 90% of the time. Meanwhile, a non-gimmicky deck like HEROs still has _SOME_ options for going first even though they're a going second deck, so its not like they'd be dead in a best of 2 environment. They could realistically adapt to a format like this even if they would still be rogue. If anything: this arguably helps HERO to a minor degree because there's no longer a coin toss to worry about until top cut, so HERO players can better build their main decks to account for the best of 2 format (in other words: they'd probably lean more into the new Evil HERO support for going first). But anyways: what this would do is that it would greatly decrease the amount of time that needs to be spent before top cut, which would DRASTICALLY reduce the overall time of in-person events. That way, games in top cut can take however long they need because there'd be a lot more available time now across the entire 2-day event. Not to mention this would make both Master Duel and TCG/OCG players happy because both skill-sets would carry over into this environment. People who play Master Duel would be more likely to make it into top cut, but people who are familiar with the TCG/OCG would really thrive once they're in top cut because they've had a lot more time to get good at side decking. The only other major consequence would be that this would also force tighter main decks like with Paul's suggestion, which like i said earlier is either a good or bad thing depending on who you ask. I really don't care all that much, but I'm sure it would bother some people who enjoy the side decking aspect.
How tf does sacking your opponent with side deck cards in any way constitute skill? Its the most brainless shit a player can do lmao imagine writing a whole novel AND basing it on such a ridiculously stupid take 😂😂😂
@@TheGreatPewpyOne I literally say in my comment that i don't give a shit about having to main deck potentially dead cards (i figure you wrote this before i finished editing my comment since i tend to repeatedly revise them until they better reflect my thoughts), but sure, i'll play devil's advocate. Being able to "sack your opponent" is more of a powercreep issue than it is a fundamental issue with side decking as a whole. You can side deck in a game like Magic the Gathering and it's nowhere near this insane because games of Magic can play across numerous turns. And Magic also has some pretty fucking insane cards that are just complete blowouts, especially in Modern. If you have a problem with blow-outs, then maybe the real complaint you have is that you want to lower the power ceiling of the game across the board (although most people would just call that a skill issue because people already build their decks to play through and/or recover from being hit by cards like Nibiru or Dark Ruler No More or Lava Golem or what have you, and the cards that you can't really play through are constantly getting banned nowadays to account for this design philosophy). If you eliminate the side deck in Yugioh altogether but still have a best of 3 format throughout the entire in-person event: then if a deck like Gimmick Puppet wins the coin toss, they basically win the set if you're in a format where the outs to the top decks in the room don't have enough overlap with Gimmick Puppet (because you realistically wouldn't be running enough hand traps to stop them if you're in a board breaker format). That's where the side deck comes in in that situation: you use it to include tech cards that don't have major overlaps with many decks in the format. Meanwhile in the best of 2 scenario I gave for games until top cut: one-trick FTK decks in general just become unviable period because they wouldn't be able to consistently 2-0. Regardless: neither a best of 3 w/ siding, a best of 3 w/o siding, or a best of 2 w/o siding will help decks that just aren't meta relevant if that's the place where your complaint is coming from. That really only works in best of 1 where you can just straight up steal games you didn't have any business winning, lol. Like, that's perfectly fine for casual games of Yugioh, but that's an awful model for a competitive environment.
I definitely see the appeal of a 2 game format. It would give both players a fair playing ground from the start. Honestly, sometimes it feels like the person that goes first in game one has an unfair advantage over all 3 games, even with side decking because both swap out for the perfect counter.
I can get behind the first two chunks, however, realistically I don't think Lorcana's best of 2 would work in yugioh. I personally HATE how MD plays, I only play it when I don't have a way to play paper (I don't enjoy the sims, and most of the people I know have better things to do than run yugioh for 6 hours lol). Anyways, I think Lorcana's format would create a meta game more in line with the OCG and I simply can't agree with a change that's closer to how the OCG works bc I just don't find it fun. I think over all staying in a best of 3 with a side board is just a better game in general. Even if you have a guaranteed round of going first, there are matches you will be incapable of winning without a side board and I don't think that is a problem that should be ABLE to exist on a tournament table.
if Konami could shift the ban list and especially the card design of the game going forward, in such a way that would facilitate no side decking, I would actually be happy to try it out
No side deck probably works, though it's got me wondering about a side deck specific banlist; Like how duel links (iirc?) has the limited list where the limit isn't per name but for the total amount of cards from the list you can put in the deck, making the cards mutually exclusive. The idea of cards that are legal _except_ when ran in the side seems like there could be something to it. In practise it probably won't help much, but it could cut down the amount of silver bullet non-games the side deck currently allows for if those types of cards had to start in your main for game 1 and you can only side them out, not in.
This is my main grip with football (soccer) as much as I love it. Players feigning injury and rolling on the ground after minuscule contact does my head in. Even substitutions, players take ages to to come off the field just to milk the clock of precious minutes. Just zero sportsmanship. Very shady tactics and been the stain on football for a very long time. Time rules in Yugioh has been an issue for years now, hence why Dogwood has been a side deck regular ever since the Trickstar/Spyral meta days. Nothing has changed.
yugioh just needs those duel trial rules that happen on master duel, but make it last for months on end, people are forced to deckbuild around the specific rule both players start with respect play/fusion gate/skull invitation, etc etc.
I honestly would take some inspiration from pokemon and make traps more useful, basically allow the player who play second to set traps before the player who starts first even plays, ofcs the traps must be the ones that he drew on his hand, so if he didn't draw any trap on his first 5 cards he doesn't get to set one, that way he is ready to use the traps when his turn starts, and it could make some nice mindgames with traps that have a graveyard effect, and maybe make the game more back and forth this way, cause let's be honest the game lasts usually 3 turns at most, might as well allow the second player more options, since his only advantage now is that he gets to draw a card, which means nothing, and handtraps just suck because they're boring.
Imagine someome attacking for game 1 second past the timer and getting the loss, but not one player playing a stall deck with LP gaining effects exploiting the tournament rules flaw, having less LP 4 seconds past the timer but getting the win. Disqualifying his opponent for daring to think on what to do with multiple effects choices in GY and hand, being low on timer from previous combos, so risking to lose by it anyways (this before Master Duel added extra seconds *each* turn), when literally rules explain you have right to use the timer on your behalf to think on what to do. Yeah... I'll never play a tournament without recording the duel ever again (and I even read all the rules incouding stalling, sharking, cheating....)
Getting rid of side decking will immediately turn a lot of mechups into istant loss. Instead, i would limit the time of people can spend into side decking. In the rulebook it is said that each player have 3 minutes to side decking, and i would make so that, each players have to side deck at the same time and, if they take more than 3 minutes, they get a penalty. This will avoid the situation we had in last tournament where both players took 5 full minutes to do that and wasted all the time they had. Antoher change i would do is to make so the time is counted only for duelling time. Side decks and calling judges will NOT waste time on the clock. Thia way people cannot waste time by shuffling between rounds or calling a judge. And last thing, using the master duel rules, by changing decks will require players to buy 3 decks instead of 1, and many people can barely affort to build 1 deck. Meaning that, once again, rich people will have an advantage
How to fix Yugioh: - No attacking or special summoning of any kind is allowed in the first three turns of the game - Put every single card in existence on either the limited or semi-limited list, get rid of the restricted list completely - Hostile takeover of Konami and drastically improve the prize support for the TCG And last but not least - Stop short-printing chase cards in every new set and import and integrate the latest OCG powercreep into the TCG at multiple affordable rarities
The only way I’ve seen who goes first and second balanced in any decent way is the coin in Hearthstone. Rogues had a better chance of winning going second with the coin. Give a reward for going second and make cards that can benefit from going second. Also feel like sidedecking should be done before you find out who is going first/second if it changes your strategy that much
With the power creep of YGO, knocking out side decks will also nearly knock out all rogue decks. The idea is fine but not with the cards that exists today. The meta will be whatever can barf out a full board in 1 turn and become a game of rock paper scissors.
I think if we're gonna get rid of the side deck, then we need to change the deck size limit to compensate for it. Change it so you have to play 55-60 cards instead of 40-60. Basically just put your side deck in the main deck. This automatically makes your main deck less consistent, which is a very good thing at this point in the game. You still have 5 slots to play around with, so there's still some decision making in your deck size.
That barely affects consistency for the top decks at all, which are already so consistent they're now running more than 40 cards, while massively screwing over weaker decks. It's a bad idea.
I like the idea of getting rid of the side deck. Like… no, Chad, your Kash/Tear/Purrely/Fiendsmith/Unchained mashup pile didn’t win the match. The Orcust engine you swapped most of that disjointed nonsense out for after game 1 won the match.
It once again goes back to the issue that ygo is too powerful, or more specifically too consistent for its own good. I'd be curious to see how a no-side deck (or at least a reduced side deck) would change deckbuilding in the tcg
Siding is important for bo3. But I wouldn't be too put off using a full other deck. But I believe it will be extra expensive to play the game. Because you wouldn't be able to use cards between decks. Like staples unless you got them again. Konami might love the idea forcing players to buy double the amount of cards needed to play. But on the impact that would have at locals.
Idk how feasible it'd be in a tournament setting but once the 45 minutes run out, the duel continues but each player has exactly 60 seconds to play their turn and have to immediately proceed to the end phase once the timer runs out. There are certain cards that could complicate this rule, like nightmare pain forcing the battle phase comes to mind, but it feels like a better way to finish a duel rather a lame lp burn/gain wincon
That would work in Master Duel because each player has their own timer. If the opponent plays a card and you need to think about a response, you're using up your own time to do so. There's no way this can work in the TCG without introducing chess clocks where the button is pressed each time priority is passed. Otherwise, each second you use thinking about a response, you're using up your opponent's extremely limited time. Not only would that open the doors to even more timer abuse than currently exists with slow playing, but people also genuinely need time to read and identify cards, confirm the game state and think about the best course of action. If I play a card you've never seen before with 10 seconds left on the clock, what do you do? Let it through just to be nice and lose when it turns out to be a game-winning card, negate it without reading and lose when it turns out to not be that important, or read it and effectively end my turn on the spot?
But would that not mean that players bring a going first and a going second deck and "side in" the going second deck when they will go second? It seems to me that this would just end up making the problem worse because now you effectively have a 40 card sideboard for when you go second.
Best of 3 still won't stop the problem of slow play. Since you can't play the whole day or go in overtime that. Tha would be a new problem. Shorting the side deck limited would help. enfoce the time limited in side decking and have time limited in turn would help too.
Each player is hooked up to a battery. The longer you take on your turn, the higher we crank up the voltage. If you can't continue your combo due to electricution, you end your turn.
🤣So Zane GX rules?
@@darryljack6612 exactly! The suspense will be intense!
Im not mad that you propose this.. im mad that you are serious.. or thought of this before me. Either one 😂
Nah man. I’d rather have a energy disk send me to the shadow realm.
Yes I'm down
It involves a loaded revolver, HEAR ME OUT.
We already have gamba decks
You ever seen a Barrel Dragon in real life?
@@StaticLaptop google giant gun
@@MrYuGiOhScape season 0 rules lmao
I’m listening
Casual duelist since starter decks Yugi/Kaiba, here.
In all my years of playing this game, I've never constructed a side deck. I've also never joined a tourney, so yeah.
I like the idea of, "I see the strategy, now. Let's try to overcome it with my resources." As opposed to, "I'll just side in the out." Idk, just seems more fun to me. Regardless, it's not like such a change would actually affect me.
It's why I like master duel. However the point of side decking is so that you can balance the match up. It effects the meta because without side decking it will usually become one dominant deck and decks just to beat that one deck and are just terrible against anything else.
There are some matches that are basically unwinnable.
Like back in duelist alliance format in 2014, if you were playing yang zing and you get matched against a shaddoll player, you may as well just sign the match slip and save both of you some time. You're not winning that match. Shaddolls are the perfect counter to everything yang zings want to do.
That's where the side deck comes in.
If you sided in stuff like phoenix wing wind blast, compulsory evacuation device, and other stuff that's just really good against shaddolls, then that match becomes a hell of a lot less frustrating. You might actually have a chance.
That's the actual purpose of the side deck.
This would be amazing if it was realistically possible. Yugioh especially simply has too many pairings where one side side of the table just isn't capable of winning the match without a side board. My mind jumps to Yang Zing and Shadolls as a perfect example. Yang HAS to be able to side in things like PWWB and Compuls to even give the round a chance in that match up, otherwise you're wasting both yours and the other player's time.
Side boards are an okay enough solution to most of the balancing issues in yugioh, but it does make time a lot more of an issue and is 110% worth evaluating changing in some capacity.
@@GeneralNickles I think he knows the actual purpose of the side deck
@hydrotatsumaster but realistically this doesn't work. Ways to deal with 1 deck do nothing to another and if you're in a wider format you can't account for 5 different decks unless it's exactly a format where everything is weak to the same cards which then just means the format is probably a time where every deck is on the same idea for the worse
I honestly wouldn't normally agree with getting rid of side decks, except for the way they function in the modern game. Nowadays, side decks aren't about getting rid of slightly bad cards in a match-up to replace them with functional cards. Now we replace those cards with insane silver bullets that create non-games.
Yeah, I think we are not taking too much time side decking. So getting rid of side decks would probalby not do too much about the time issue. However, I think I would enjoy a world, where people can no longer just side in their floodgates, that just wins them games instantly - or at least they would have to play them always. And then they most likely become bricks. So, yeah, this idea might actually help. No side deck and playing more in-engine, and playing less non-engine.
The good floodgates are gone.....
@@ThaClipKeepahwe still have anti-spell, dimensional barrier, as well as every other obscure floodgate that are just as toxic but not as good as the one’s that were recently hit.
@@shitaishiro I said the good ones n d barrier doesn't count
Apparently D barrier doesn't count
I'd argue the game is in a place where games need more time due to how much Konami have made the game more complex and more combo/recursion orientated. But they won't do that
so probably the only solution is to make it more annoying with timed turns which no one wants lol. Can't fix a problem if the makers of the game broke it to begin with and let it get out of control.
I do like the idea of bringing down the power level of all decks for the health of the game so this idea of Paul's is pretty good for that reason.
but how much time? extra 15mins?
At least add the 6 minutes for sideboards.
@@cybzer0560 yeah basicly.
@@digitalstatictv any extra time would help. But the games themselves are begging for more for that 3rd match.
Side decking shouldn't take alot of time as you would also be thinking about adapting your strategies during the round.
If people are intentionally taking alot of time to do so, limiting it to 1 minute seems fair.
1 minute isn’t enough. It’s more about what comes out of your deck than what’s coming in because there can be some dead cards in match up’s and you need time to consider that.
In my playgroup, we don't do siding. Your deck is what it is, and pretty much all of us are happier for it. I enjoy that your deck must be more robust to expand your ability to adapt, as opposed to a focused deck that dies without silver bullets.
Then again, we play mostly 3+ player free-for-alls where people die to Thunder Crash, so maybe we're not mentally sound people.
This is why I love universus(previously mha card game) once you go to time, the person who goes second always gets the last turn. So if time ends on their turn that is the last turn
What our locals has talked about for time is
You are playing for points. Each game is worth 1 point.
When time of round is called the game ends immediately. If your still in game 1 it's a draw. If your in game 3 it's a draw,
You are then actively trying to play faster to get that second point.
That sounds like a decent way to address a slow play problem, at least.
Also, "you're".
We got the same ruling in our OTS. When timer gets called the game is stopped. No more combo to cheese and burn your opponent or gain LP.
So if I'm understanding correctly, regardless of if someone is up a game or not. If time is called then it's a draw?
Ie: if my opponent won G1 and time is called during G2, it's a draw?
@@worthywill9294 No, chess timers don't end up in draws because each player has their OWN timer, rather than a SHARED 45 minute timer. Time will be called when a player LOSES their time. Chess timer is the same mechanic that is being used in Duel Links and Master Duel. Games will be more skillful.
@@worthywill9294 OP specifically addressed game 1 and game 3, NOT game 2.
I do think Master duel would serve as a good testing ground to further this idea, having game 2s and 3s while still prohibiting a side deck could prove good results on the health of the game. I think personally it's a good idea that Konami should start to set into motion either by using Master duel or by shortening the side deck even more. Not only would it allow certain cards to come off of being Banned and Limited because they only got on the list due to their power in the side deck, but it would make people play harder and put more thought into the main deck.
Also speaking of Master duel, I believe we should enter a universal state of the game. No more divisions based on Konami's regions, no more separation of TCG & OCG, and everyone get cards and pack releases at the same time of availability. This also includes producing a unified banlist for the game.
2 things
First as much as I would love a joint banlist I don’t want Konami Japan making it and they definitely will be
Second I think we should try altering the side decking rules a little bit differently first also MD needs to maintain a Bo1 format (with missions and rewards) along side Bo3 it’s good for the casual player so have options
Only side deck game 2 so you have to prep for both games so you can’t just put in blow outs and board breakers and time cards so you instead have to focus on balancing your deck to suit the opponents deck or shore up your weaknesses like what this mechanic was intended for
@@jmurray1110 what's wrong with Konami Japan making the ban list?
@@robertmahiques6218 Konami Japan has this thing where they refuse to properly hit anything because of how casual the game can be in Japan compared to the west block dragon is still legal for example and to justify it they use maxx C as a crutch to not properly hit things
It’s a move that doesn’t translate well because the west doesn’t have the same card game culture you don’t have 12 different TCGs going at a time here you really just pick a game and stick with it and these options mean if you kill a deck the player probably won’t buy a new one since they can just move onto the next game like nothing happened
When me and my friends have duel nights, we play Bo3 with no side decks. It works very good for casual friendly games, as blowout cards and floodgates tend to live in the side deck. Having "going second" cards in the main deck also helps to lower the power level and slow down our little format. When we choose our decks, they have to be able to go first or second without the crutches of the side deck.
That said, I don't think that removing the side deck would be good for the competitive scene. It might incentivize Konami to make going-second archetypes more like Tenpai, which not many people seem to like.
There is a difference between nobrainpai that literally has a card that says stop interacting with me, I will now use this spreadsheet combo to win and interesting blind second decks like powerspell striker which has a really good yubel matchup at least in masterduel and is not telegraphed or linear at all
The TCG I enjoy playing most is Duel Masters, and in that game there is no side decking.
And in my opinion, it leads to some very interesting deck building dynamic where you have to dedicate deck slots to tech against X, but in order to properly assess just how many deck slots it's worth tech-ing, you need to have a reasonable estimate for how much you will be facing against X. So it really rewards knowing the metagame and the environment you play in. There's also the aspect of "how much consistency am I willing to sacrifice off my main game plan in favor of tech cards?".
No side decking also allows more deck variety to exist. There are decks that would get absolutely demolished by certain cards, but they can still exist because not every deck can afford to run those counter cards (whereas if sidedecking were allowed, every single player would side deck the counters, hence those decks would become unplayable). There's a reason why in Magic mono-red is so dominant in bo1 but becomes just kind of a "meh" deck in bo3.
No local store that I know host tournaments for duel masters, that game is more popular in Japan
Dragon Ball Super has had Best of 1 Pre-Side formats - basically u build 1 big deck that includes ur side-deck, and after seeing the leader ur opponent is playing, u can sideOUT the cards u dont want to run. I know yugioh doesnt have any 1-to-1 Leader cards, but the idea of having a decklist that INCLUDES your answers is definitely a good idea.
A lot of the game is certainly built around side decking but if you adopted some other rules that let you do side decking but within reason then I'd say it would work. Like in Master Duel tournaments it's "swap your entire deck to your second deck" which could be used in lieu of side decking, maybe make it like "only the person who lost at least 1 game in the match can choose to switch" which for one makes it more streamlined and balanced but also means the person ahead a game can't take 5 minutes just looking through his second deck saying, "Hmm, I dunno, it might not be right for this match..."
If you're only allowed 2 decks and only the losing player can swap what this also means is that you can play a second deck as a meta call - if your deck is overall solid but loses to one specific bad matchup then you can choose a second deck curated specifically to just that matchup. In game 3 either player can choose to swap to the other deck.
While I agree the YUIGIOH community as a whole would lose there shit if side deck was removed. as a strictly master duel player and former TCG player it seems like TCG players want to be able to cram as much engine and non engine in there deck and not really think about deck building. If you had to worry about not having a side deck it would literally change the game because you have to decided do you want more engine pieces or give up engine pieces for hand traps board breaker etc
Would make board breakers kinda sucky when you cant reliably only play them when you know you go second
*their not there
There is a use word for there are side deck cards used for the time rules but players can use burn cards its their choice.
If the game goes to time, it should be an automatic draw. Players exploit slow play rules, so if you punish players for playing slow, they’ll either pay more attention or they’ll be disincentivized from slow rolling
But wouldn't that just punish both players regardless of who was slow playing? If anything, it sounds like it would encourage the losing player to slow play.
@@silverwolf9396should be a rule if your behind already and you intentionally slow play to a draw you would lose instead
@@emobassist that would require each table to have a judge. That'd cost way to many resources to have basically personal judges.
This encourages the losing player to slow play as a draw means it'll mean the other player can lose in the bubble
Maybe implement some kind of timer for each player on the table like on chess matches so judges can measure if somebody was taking their sweet time too much? Each time a turn finishes and ends, and each time a player tries to interrupt the other player's turn to check field/GY/banish and activate effects they'd have to press said timer. I know this would be really hard to implement for Yu-Gi-Oh, or even most if not all TCGs in general, but I think its a start for a good idea.
I think best solution to time and dice roll together, is got to play all 2 format. Each player has to start once. Win both you get 5 points, win 1 you get 3 points, none you get 0 points. Draw gets you 1 point, draw + did not get to play game 2 is 2 points. Its not perfect, but 2 games means more time per game, and getting burned in time in game 2 does not effect game 1 so less impact.
I've never had a side deck so this change is fine for me. Seriously, for those unsure about this proposal, go to a tournament without a side deck and see how that experience impacts your deck building process
In lorcana for Swiss we play a best of 2 no side deck. Both players go first to help eliminate the advantage of going first. Since we have no side deck you have to deck build knowing you will go second. I think it would help a lot if yugioh just got rid of the side deck and forced you to deck build knowing you will always get to go first and second. Would people run a lot of floodgates knowing they have to go first in each match? How many board breakers do they run because they have to go second? I think it opens up deck building for people and archetypes.
not entirely certain of this, but I'd be under the impression that the player who goes first first has the advantage of being able to better prepare for the second game.
Yes but without a side deck I think it lessens it than the advantage you have now when you side deck and play the best of 3 in the current format. This format challenges players to be able to win going second. Since you only play 2 games.
@@Majinlaw provided you're playing a midrange deck you can better mold your hand for. One Piece runs Bo1 and being able to mulligan for matchups
That's interesting for one piece. I don't think it has to be midrange but midrange becomes best overall. Also I don't think you could give yugioh the mulligan.
@@Majinlaw mulligan if you're second?
Edit: They'd have to hit Tenpai even harder to keep them from being too consistent, but it'd help going second with dealing with oppressive first turns.
I have never liked side decking, I have abused it myself before, not for time but to have three warrior eliminations to counter all hero decks and three copies of shadow imprisoning mirror to counter other decks and all of those years ago that was enough to win locals after knowing what deck everyone is playing. Also on the show such as battle city no one got to side deck and I have always liked the idea of just walking around with one deck that can take on the world. Also a hand trap that can be sent from hand when a card or cards is added to either player's hand. No card added to the hand can be played nor any card with the same name as an added card can be played for the rest of the turn. This as a hand trap or as a rule from say the top 16 onward would change everything.
I have an idea of a new Master Rule:
If an effect has a Spell be set on the field from somewhere (Deck, Grave, Hand) it shouldn't be able to be flipped face-up and be activated the same turn.
This would slow down a lot of the strongest decks out there, but how is it different from adding it into your hand and activating it from there?
But listening to Paul as I type this, I agree, side decking is a variable that can't be controlled, and would force people to run staples that interact with your own deck instead of just theirs
I second this, also make ALL CARDS once per turn effects IDC what it is.
Didn't realize amazoness and war rocks were a strong deck
The whole setting spells and traps from the deck was made to get around hand traps like Ash Blossom. Literally a solution to a problem konami made, which itself was meant to be a solution to a supposed problem of too much deck to hand effects.
I feel like Side Decking brings more strategic building to the game. I think it would make more sense to build a Best of One format with a Winners and Losers bracket if we want to remove side decking. Or letting people register multiple decks maybe up to 3. It would be harder thought as with some decks being super expensive it would be hard for people to invest in multiple decks.
Speaking as a strategist, that is very true 👍 👌
Sorry I am a side deck stan. It allow me to have options for game 2 & 3 for rogue strats & it allows more deck creativity because you do not have to have every single out or leave holes. Just increase the clock to 1 hour. Also pairs well with hard stop at time that others have mentioned.
Sounds like you’re playing a top deck, which means you’re not worried about rogue strats
@@DemonBoy247365 no you are just assuming.
As someone who runs a league with no side decking, I must say I love the idea. For a long time now, all my players have been improving their main deck for matches, which has improved their abilities as players.
But I can't speak from a competitive standpoint, some people like the idea of the safety that the side deck provides, and I don't compete in official tournaments anymore, so it won't really affect me.
Loved the suggestion. When we learn to play with your friends you build your deck to go either first or second. The same was true for older yugioh.
Disqualify both players. That would definitely speed things up.
I'm taking both of us to the shadow realm! *Slams swords of revealing light*
I know this is probably a joke, but if this was the case the losing player would stall
@@mimivrc4148 Self Destruction was legal at some point.
Side deck phase should be just 2 minute before game restart. So clean setup for 1 minutes, side for 2. Shuffle and cut for 1 minute total of 4 minutes or 8 minutes out of the 45 minutes. Remaining 37 minutes means around 13 minutes per round. Then each player has a total of half the allowed time as a chess timer basis.
A rule change that ive been thinking of is mulligans:
Only the going second player is allowed to mulligan. If they do, their opponent is allowed to too. If the going first player does, the going second player draws 1 card. (Then ban both mulcharmy)
@@dere7343 I would allow both players to mulligan but every time you do, you draw 1 less card. So if your starting hand is 5, you call mulligan, re-shuffle and draw 4 cards. Rinse and repeat until you are only left with 1 card.
With my friends we have tried a change in format, we call it Ancient format.
No direct attack allowed unless the monster fot that effect or get that effect, no Main phase 2, if a monster is destroyed by effect and sent to graveyard the controller get damage equal to the half of the current attack, allow normal set in face down attack position, one monster attack by turn only
Each player play with a timer just like chess. EZ! done!
I’ve played a lot of Master Duel and a lot of TCG. I think there’s a a mix that could be a much more fair way to side deck. Instead of removing the side deck, we could have a smaller side deck of maybe 6 or 9 cards. I have ran tournaments with 9 side deck cards, and it’s much more fair because you A) have to choose your cards more carefully and B) have less probability in general to draw those outs. This still allows certain decks to prepare for a terrible matchup, but you have to use the 9 slots wisely.
Lately I’ve been playing some different formats with friends, and we are trying a rule. Before the first turn starts, the going second player is allowed to set traps. However, if they chose to activate a trap turn 1, they don’t get a battle phase in turn 2.
Why not just take the Pokemon approach and have a "3 extra turns at time" rule?
When time is called, the current player finishes their turn. Then the 3 turns start with the non-time player getting the first and third turns to try to win, while the time player only has one turn do it.
Doing it like this, if it's getting close to time, it's actually on the players to get through their turns as fast as possible since being called on time nets you just one extra turn, while the player not called on time gets TWO extra turns.
Honestly, why is YGO operating with rules that would so obviously favour slow play? It's set up to make players play so dishonestly. :\
Yugioh used to do this but the three turns often would take an extra 20 or 30 minutes. This added hours to an eight round Yugioh tournament.
Heres my hot take how to balance extra deck!!
Fusion: leave it as it is.
Synchro: limit to 5 per extra deck
XYZ: limit to to 5 per extra deck
Link: removed from extra (is now on main deck)
Pendulum: same as before (add extra pendulum scale) [balanced having extra monster zone and link on main deck]
My biggest change I’d make to the game is not being allowed to surrender. Here’s a little story to back up my point. The year was 2021, the world was JUST coming back from the big pandemic, I’d been playing Yugioh already over 10 years very casually, and I mean like “I summon my blue eyes with no tributes and attack directly for 3000, putting you at 1000 LP” casual. I had a vague idea of competitive yugioh at the end of school (2021 for me), and knew about Dragoon, and I found out where my local card shop was so I bought a deck that was just meant to summon dragoon as fast as possible, and I thought this was crazy, in my head I was thinking “Oh my god, only 4 turns to summon this monster”, I get there and immediately get crushed with the meta. This was my first introduction to meta yugioh and where most people got discouraged, I saw this as “Oh, I need to get better, I need to improve”, and I did, I bought a new deck, I’ve been rocking it since, and I love it. But then I decided I wanted to switch it up, and this was right as master duel was coming out, and I thought I’d build the deck there, test it, then bring it to locals and kick some ass. The project is that I didn’t get a chance to play a single game, cuz the second I got any kind of momentum, my opponent would scoop, the same problem happens with things like YGOPRO, YGO-OMEGA, Dueling Nexus, Duel Links, any online yugioh sim, they surrender the second I make one good move, or if they activate ash and I chain called by, and because I spent 6 hours not being able to actually use the deck and see how it plays, I never got the chance to get better with it until I had to use it in a trial by fire at locals, where unfortunately, people do the same thing
Just put a limit to how many times a player can special summon per turn.
Ex:
One fusion, one synchro, one xyz and one link summon per turn.
Also you can special summon only once from the graveyard and the banished zone.
Cards that summon multiple monsters at once count as one like DDR
Here's something we can do. You can make it so that the player who's thinking on resolving a card loses when going into time. No more whose LP is higher.
3 rules:
16k life points to guarantee a fourth turn and a comeback
Second player draw 6 cards from the start ( no draw phase for first and second players at the start). So the second player can draw his hand draw from the start. Worst feeling when you draw Nibiru in your draw phase
Extra deck from 15 to 10 or 8. Only bring what you need
The only real solution is timed turns; but the big problem is enforcement. Each player would have to remember to start/stop the timer whenever a card is responded to. It might be a necessary evil. 5 minutes should be more than enough to make your plays honestly, although I think you should be able to add like 10 seconds when shuffling.
I’m a boomer who liked the og show and also today mostly a mtg commander player, and have briefly tried to get into the game before giving up because i realized it would be no cheaper than mtg and all decks seem to be too combo and chain focused.
I say: i think it would be interesting if yugioh became a singleton card game, meaning you can only have a single copy of each card in your deck. Maybe since its yugioh you should be allowed to have 3 copies of a single monster in your deck and thats it (to reflect kaiba’s blue-eyes in the anime). Singleton formats are good because it makes every match different and you cant rely into playing card A followed by card B in order to realiably play card C on every game. It would make decks less explosive and combo centric and more back and forth between both players, as well as making the real life game feel like its anime counterpart for people who try to get into it from watching the show. Good old “i play monster X in defense position, set two cards down and pass my turn” kind of feel.
Of course, for that to be effective, konami would have to control itself in order to not print many tutor like effects, as it would defeat the purpose of singleton. Make them scarce and with a lot of drawbacks, as well as banning any over reliable tutors that might already exist.
Bring out the Chess Clock,
Set to ten minutes per round,
The first to get Time Over is disqualified from the Match,
you DON'T regain time during the round.
some of us hate sacky a$$ master duel and dont want to just lose because now we have to pack our decks with more garbage that may or may not come up.
This. Opening the possibility for the game to play like MD just means I don't have a chance of clawing back games 2 and 3 with good planning of a side board. I already lose too many coin flips on MD.
Konami needs to make their focus and priorities on Master Duel for their competitive scene. The accessibility, the ease to watch it, the variety in the format (for worlds), the affordability. Master Duel has everything going for it to be a very good premiere eSports card game. I hope next year they really go all out for Ranked and Competitive Master Duel.
Interesting discussion and one that I would say I ultimately agree with. I do feel like side decking usually creates more non games and that players would have to make more meaningful decisions in deck building if they had to decide what answers to what playstyles they wanted to include in their main deck. Great discussion.
Time rules as they are currently is one of the factors that has completely destroyed my interested in Yugioh tournaments, mostly playing but also some viewing. All the opportunity for time cheese that benefits from a player milking a clock and having to constantly be on people about slow play because if you don't it can usually be in someone's best interest to slow play. That constant micromanaging that's needed just makes playing less fun to a level that I would just rather not play.
The fact that Respect Play is in this videos thumbnail and was played in Ruxins video of the same day is such a hilarious coincidence for a very obsolete card.
I have a change I am curious how it would effect the game but the turn 2 player can set any spells and traps from there hand and use them during the turn 1 players turn mainly to help with traps being to slow and also to stop unbreakable boards a problem I see is it would make stun decks better and force decks to run more back row removal so they don't get floodgated
I'm not sure about a simple bo3 no side deck (though it'd be a neat experiment, if nothing else), but tbh, a part of me would really like to see master duel's worlds system applied to just a regular tournament. 3v3 teams for a best of nine where all members face off against each player in the other team once, with each person having 2 decks and the team's combined decklists cannot have any cards above the legal amount
the only change I'd propose is to remove the shared cards rule, which is really effectively just an excuse for everyone to be able to run the maxx "c" minigame package when applied to md worlds
I just started getting into paper play after not doing so since I was a kid. Was playing master duel before that and enjoying myself so figured why not.
Honestly for me, the side deck is an after thought. It saves me a little extra not having to have other cards to side deck, and I’m not actively trying to win a regionals or anything, the store I play at isn’t even an OTS, the power level is quite tame, I don’t think anybody there side decks between duels
I’ve built 2 decks so far and neither really has much of a side deck
Freaking bring in the Chess timer rule just like in Duel Links and Master Duel. Chess has been using it for over 140 YEARS. ONE HUNDRED FREAKING FORTY YEARS. This literally kills SLOW players and cheese burn decks. It also gives a new way to win. Giving you a chance to win even if your opponent has a a full board. If they are too slow to build their board, their own timer will kill them..
Honestly the md timer system helps so much to balance out long drawn out combo decks, i almost never ever faced infernoble despite it being completely full power in md but it was everywhere at locals, and while it’s nowhere near a top deck it’s super easy for them to spend upwards of 10 minutes building a board that cheeses a game 1 win without running specific outs
That will kill some decks I have definitely almost timed out because of the MD timer (zombies) and actually did during the current event because I didn’t know how to play tearlament
That would be a terrible idea.
I summon, repsone? *tap*
No response *tap*
Activate, response? *tap*
No response *tap*
You'd be tapping that clock no less than 50 times in a single turn across 2 or 3 games in a 9+ round day. It would get old before you even finish the first turn. It works for chess because it's a completely different game.
@@RG_LoneWolfe It works in Duel Links and MD. What's your point? If you are a slow player or it takes you forever to form your lines/boards, you deserve to lose.
@@jmurray1110 It will kill some decks? Maybe? But this change is targeted towards SLOW players, cheese burns/LP gain..
I actually like this idea. In theory side decking is supposed to help with going second, but in practice it just leads to a bunch of floodgates being sided going first.
There's also one more hidden upside: Yugioh cards are very expensive and having to bring 15 less potentially expensive cards would help a lot with accessibility.
In Hearthstone we play with 3 or 4 different decks ( depending if it Bo3 or Bo5 with a ban) and there is no side decking. If you want to counter a deck you need to build a entire composition around that strategy, instead of just side decking some cards that destroy the opponent's deck.
I think this is an excellent idea. i recently got my best friend to start to play yugioh and we are planning to play with each other in this exact way, best of threes with no side deck. i think you are right that it adds a level of complexity to the deck building that yugioh side decks change.
You're suggesting Master Duel where you have a chance. I've been wanting that since day 9 of Master Duel
I completely agree, I like having to make compromises in deck building and not being able to side blowouts.
Now to pick what should change to help with time while being efficient. I know this may seem hard but hear me out. Deck building rules. Doing this based on kind of like speed duel, but assigning cards a power value and limiting a decks power value to a total. This most likely will kill combo but what eats the most time? Combo and it really feels bad sitting there while your opponent can play and you have to sit there.
The funny thing is Konami has done this in the past in cross duel and duelist of the roses. That way you can also increase the power limit of decks for higher events or lower it for others as well as giving a greater challenge for deck building.
I have a idea. Let's put Yu-Gi-Oh under gym rules (same now except a match win condition). Two ways (only have to pick one and win the full match automatically):
1. Win first game and survive second game until either your opponent surrenders or the timer hits zero.
2. Have more LP in either first or third game.
The second option would lead back to the same meta of having to run dog water burn cards or means to gain life to push yourself to win. Something no one likes because life points functionally don't matter in the game at any point outside of do you have 0 or 1
We here at Vanguard only play Bo1 & we have no side deck & it sucks. There are certain matchups where certain cards are needed to even play against but sucks in 99% of other matchups. Removing side decking not only removes a means counter play, it also makes games more luck reliant than it should. it's going to feel like those "I only lost because my opponent drew the exact out to my strategy" kind of deal.
I don't think the time issue and the side deck issue are the same problem really, but I really like the idea of no side deck. Or maybe place limits on the side that you can only have 1 copy of a card in your side.
Like you can run 2 ash, but if you feel you need the third you can side it out. Or reduce the size wholesale?
Being able to carry 5, 3 of atom bombs to your opponents deck has always seemed a little gross to me. A lot of tourney matches I've won are exclusively because of side decking, and I don't really feel like that was a good representation of player skill or knowledge.
How about the player going second doesn’t get a draw phase either and instead starts with 6 cards in their hand?
No reason to make a change like that when the end result is still the same.
@@romkin1197did you even think before responding? If you go 2nd and start with 6 cards, it not only allows you to potentially draw an extra counter card immediately but it also allows you to scoop instantly if you brick out because you know your opponent has a great board and you arent going to be drawing another card to save yourself.
Saves everyone time.
@@zacwoods You clearly don't think.
Again nothing changes.
@@romkin1197
You were literally just told what changes. If you don't understand I can try and explain it to you
@@coranbaker6401 It still wouldn't change anything.
If the game had a higher minimum card limit for decks, that would reduce the need for a side deck by giving players the extra space to include extra cards they normally would put in the sidedeck.
The focus on keeping decks as close to 40 cards as possible for maximum efficiency has done more damage than good to the game imo, and this is just one thing in favour of raising the deck limit to 50 or 60 cards.
No, I love side decks. I be side decking board breakers for going second
No side deck would lead to a Pokémon situation and make it so the gaps between decks gets wider for no reason because you can't build around 3-5 decks at once reasonably unless you really want decks to functionally have Poplar plus ash effects on the monsters they'll design to support this.
We already saw how rule changes made card design worse like MR4 and in about 3 months links went from you have to actually commit and consider to this is now your easy to make archtype boss that has beneficial arrows and effects that plus you more
I would think that if you win the coin slip it would be much easier to develop a going second strategy and load up your deck with droplets and dark rulers, etc. Which sounds kinda fun.
Side decking is THE most toxic it's ever been in memory. Everyone is playing thrusts, D barrier, DDG, other floods like skill drain, mulcharmys.
I could be down with this. It would be cool to see side decking go away entirely, partially because it's a skill I have yet to master. I could also be down for a total change of format, either to best of 1 or best of 5, with a longer or shorter clock to compensate, or more total rounds to compensate
Side deck prevents good deck building,”oh my deck cant deal with this other deck, or oh this card kills this deck” the first case it just means your deck was poorly made with no prevention of what may happen. And the second will deter the use of insta win cards, for example back when abc was used the side was 3 system down, a card that was an auto win againts abc, if you wanna play that card you now risk drawing it on turn one or againts a non machine deck. Yugioh would become so much more varied in the long run, and yes we would pass like a year or two jumping between degenerate stun decks while those cards get banned and cycled off. But im sure quickly we will find a middle ground.
you know what, I like the idea. I also like the idea of only allowing desk swaps too. deck swaps would be create way more interesting and dynamic matches (with a 1 minute time limit to swap decks).
tjhis would also allow for more gimmicky decks that only do well with 1 match before they get stomped by side decks. I like the idea! very interesting!
I'm a fan of dropping side decks. But as for other ideas, maybe allow the going second player to set spells and traps at the end of going first player's first end phase. This would mean going first player gets to pop off with monster effects and setup back row, but going second player can trigger traps in their first turn to try to open a window for their monster setup. Might encourage playing more traps without turning them all into imperm-like hand traps
I think I might like this idea, actually...
Except for playing against Lab.
Also, it actually benefits imperm by setting it in a column where that effect might go off.
They could always adopt the Lorcana best of 2 format wity no side decks which i think would actually be the most balanced. You cant be sacked by a side deck tech in that directly counters your deck, and you dont lose to dice roll. Each players goes first once. If you can't balance out winning going both first and second you tie.
Just set a timer. Player who has used the most time of the 45 then loses if they game hasn’t finished
I like it. It would be cool if there were events based around a rule change. Like imagine a tournament where you start with 2000lp or can only have 2 monsters at a time. It would be cool to see the meta of that environment.
Absolutely right. Game 2 feels really unbalanced and unfair when they side in the blow outs against your deck. I think the option is to ban the blow outs like dimensional barrier and shifter, but this works too. BO1 is based
I think that for competitive tournaments, no 2 players should be able to submit the exact same Deck List. That would stop Tier 0 Formats from happening, if you had to run an entirely different and unique deck from all the other competitors.
Time to play my favorite game: "how long into the video will it be until i find a card that this breaks or conflicts with?"
EDIT: 2:44 A lot of tech cards pretty much exist to be included in the side deck in a competitive setting (like the Mulcharmies, Evenly Matched, and Ultimate Slayer to name a few), and overall a change like this hurts skill expression since you may have to now fill your deck with cards that might not be good going either first or second (in other words: the OCG/TCG would become Master Duel but IRL, which i guess could be seen as a plus to people who enjoy how that game plays compared to the paper formats). Not to mention that even in a heavily diverse meta like DUNE/AGOV: the side deck felt pretty limited in terms of addressing every deck in the room. This would be an even bigger problem if you gutted side decks in general.
I also don't understand how this would fundamentally fix time rules. It shaves off 6 minutes, but its not like people won't find ways to play decks that add on an additional 6 minutes. Have you SEEN how long pendulum decks can summon for during a single turn? True Draco is still a thing that people play in diverse metas (which we ideally want). This feels like a band-aid fix for powercreep, and we'll probably just end up with the same problem in 2-3 years as decks take even longer to play due to stronger grind games.
However: i do have a silver bullet solution. A suggestion I heard on Heart of the Cast (one that's more in line with your suggestion) was adopting Lorcana's "Best of 2" ruleset.
How this would work is that until players are decided for top cut, you'd play 2 games with no side decking during each round where both players are given a single game to go first. At least this way there would be more incentive to play decks that are good either going first or second, and decks that "need" to explicitly go first or second would have to adapt if they want to be able to consistently 2-0 and remain meta relevant. This would also help reduce the viability of cringe OTK strategies like Gimmick Puppet without having to murder all their cards on the F/L list because FTKs just fundamentally wouldn't be strong enough to make it to top cut. If they HAVE to play a game where they go second, they're just fucked 90% of the time. Meanwhile, a non-gimmicky deck like HEROs still has _SOME_ options for going first even though they're a going second deck, so its not like they'd be dead in a best of 2 environment. They could realistically adapt to a format like this even if they would still be rogue. If anything: this arguably helps HERO to a minor degree because there's no longer a coin toss to worry about until top cut, so HERO players can better build their main decks to account for the best of 2 format (in other words: they'd probably lean more into the new Evil HERO support for going first).
But anyways: what this would do is that it would greatly decrease the amount of time that needs to be spent before top cut, which would DRASTICALLY reduce the overall time of in-person events. That way, games in top cut can take however long they need because there'd be a lot more available time now across the entire 2-day event. Not to mention this would make both Master Duel and TCG/OCG players happy because both skill-sets would carry over into this environment. People who play Master Duel would be more likely to make it into top cut, but people who are familiar with the TCG/OCG would really thrive once they're in top cut because they've had a lot more time to get good at side decking. The only other major consequence would be that this would also force tighter main decks like with Paul's suggestion, which like i said earlier is either a good or bad thing depending on who you ask. I really don't care all that much, but I'm sure it would bother some people who enjoy the side decking aspect.
How tf does sacking your opponent with side deck cards in any way constitute skill? Its the most brainless shit a player can do lmao imagine writing a whole novel AND basing it on such a ridiculously stupid take 😂😂😂
@@TheGreatPewpyOne I literally say in my comment that i don't give a shit about having to main deck potentially dead cards (i figure you wrote this before i finished editing my comment since i tend to repeatedly revise them until they better reflect my thoughts), but sure, i'll play devil's advocate.
Being able to "sack your opponent" is more of a powercreep issue than it is a fundamental issue with side decking as a whole. You can side deck in a game like Magic the Gathering and it's nowhere near this insane because games of Magic can play across numerous turns. And Magic also has some pretty fucking insane cards that are just complete blowouts, especially in Modern. If you have a problem with blow-outs, then maybe the real complaint you have is that you want to lower the power ceiling of the game across the board (although most people would just call that a skill issue because people already build their decks to play through and/or recover from being hit by cards like Nibiru or Dark Ruler No More or Lava Golem or what have you, and the cards that you can't really play through are constantly getting banned nowadays to account for this design philosophy).
If you eliminate the side deck in Yugioh altogether but still have a best of 3 format throughout the entire in-person event: then if a deck like Gimmick Puppet wins the coin toss, they basically win the set if you're in a format where the outs to the top decks in the room don't have enough overlap with Gimmick Puppet (because you realistically wouldn't be running enough hand traps to stop them if you're in a board breaker format). That's where the side deck comes in in that situation: you use it to include tech cards that don't have major overlaps with many decks in the format.
Meanwhile in the best of 2 scenario I gave for games until top cut: one-trick FTK decks in general just become unviable period because they wouldn't be able to consistently 2-0.
Regardless: neither a best of 3 w/ siding, a best of 3 w/o siding, or a best of 2 w/o siding will help decks that just aren't meta relevant if that's the place where your complaint is coming from. That really only works in best of 1 where you can just straight up steal games you didn't have any business winning, lol. Like, that's perfectly fine for casual games of Yugioh, but that's an awful model for a competitive environment.
I definitely see the appeal of a 2 game format. It would give both players a fair playing ground from the start.
Honestly, sometimes it feels like the person that goes first in game one has an unfair advantage over all 3 games, even with side decking because both swap out for the perfect counter.
I can get behind the first two chunks, however, realistically I don't think Lorcana's best of 2 would work in yugioh. I personally HATE how MD plays, I only play it when I don't have a way to play paper (I don't enjoy the sims, and most of the people I know have better things to do than run yugioh for 6 hours lol). Anyways, I think Lorcana's format would create a meta game more in line with the OCG and I simply can't agree with a change that's closer to how the OCG works bc I just don't find it fun. I think over all staying in a best of 3 with a side board is just a better game in general. Even if you have a guaranteed round of going first, there are matches you will be incapable of winning without a side board and I don't think that is a problem that should be ABLE to exist on a tournament table.
if Konami could shift the ban list and especially the card design of the game going forward, in such a way that would facilitate no side decking, I would actually be happy to try it out
No side deck probably works, though it's got me wondering about a side deck specific banlist; Like how duel links (iirc?) has the limited list where the limit isn't per name but for the total amount of cards from the list you can put in the deck, making the cards mutually exclusive. The idea of cards that are legal _except_ when ran in the side seems like there could be something to it. In practise it probably won't help much, but it could cut down the amount of silver bullet non-games the side deck currently allows for if those types of cards had to start in your main for game 1 and you can only side them out, not in.
My friends told me about how people will slow play and the infamous “Cowboy for game.” Meta.
This is my main grip with football (soccer) as much as I love it. Players feigning injury and rolling on the ground after minuscule contact does my head in.
Even substitutions, players take ages to to come off the field just to milk the clock of precious minutes. Just zero sportsmanship.
Very shady tactics and been the stain on football for a very long time.
Time rules in Yugioh has been an issue for years now, hence why Dogwood has been a side deck regular ever since the Trickstar/Spyral meta days. Nothing has changed.
yugioh just needs those duel trial rules that happen on master duel, but make it last for months on end, people are forced to deckbuild around the specific rule
both players start with respect play/fusion gate/skull invitation, etc etc.
I honestly would take some inspiration from pokemon and make traps more useful, basically allow the player who play second to set traps before the player who starts first even plays, ofcs the traps must be the ones that he drew on his hand, so if he didn't draw any trap on his first 5 cards he doesn't get to set one, that way he is ready to use the traps when his turn starts, and it could make some nice mindgames with traps that have a graveyard effect, and maybe make the game more back and forth this way, cause let's be honest the game lasts usually 3 turns at most, might as well allow the second player more options, since his only advantage now is that he gets to draw a card, which means nothing, and handtraps just suck because they're boring.
Imagine someome attacking for game 1 second past the timer and getting the loss, but not one player playing a stall deck with LP gaining effects exploiting the tournament rules flaw, having less LP 4 seconds past the timer but getting the win.
Disqualifying his opponent for daring to think on what to do with multiple effects choices in GY and hand, being low on timer from previous combos, so risking to lose by it anyways (this before Master Duel added extra seconds *each* turn), when literally rules explain you have right to use the timer on your behalf to think on what to do.
Yeah... I'll never play a tournament without recording the duel ever again (and I even read all the rules incouding stalling, sharking, cheating....)
Getting rid of side decking will immediately turn a lot of mechups into istant loss. Instead, i would limit the time of people can spend into side decking.
In the rulebook it is said that each player have 3 minutes to side decking, and i would make so that, each players have to side deck at the same time and, if they take more than 3 minutes, they get a penalty.
This will avoid the situation we had in last tournament where both players took 5 full minutes to do that and wasted all the time they had.
Antoher change i would do is to make so the time is counted only for duelling time. Side decks and calling judges will NOT waste time on the clock.
Thia way people cannot waste time by shuffling between rounds or calling a judge.
And last thing, using the master duel rules, by changing decks will require players to buy 3 decks instead of 1, and many people can barely affort to build 1 deck. Meaning that, once again, rich people will have an advantage
How to fix Yugioh:
- No attacking or special summoning of any kind is allowed in the first three turns of the game
- Put every single card in existence on either the limited or semi-limited list, get rid of the restricted list completely
- Hostile takeover of Konami and drastically improve the prize support for the TCG
And last but not least
- Stop short-printing chase cards in every new set and import and integrate the latest OCG powercreep into the TCG at multiple affordable rarities
The anime solved this in episode 2 of Duel Monsters. Timed duels and the loser has their Grandpa's soul taken if they lose to time.
I’d argue limiting the number of effects per phase would be a better balance.
The only way I’ve seen who goes first and second balanced in any decent way is the coin in Hearthstone. Rogues had a better chance of winning going second with the coin. Give a reward for going second and make cards that can benefit from going second.
Also feel like sidedecking should be done before you find out who is going first/second if it changes your strategy that much
I believe you are correct. Deck building is better if you don’t have to rely on side decking.
Instead of 45 min game, each player has 20minutes to win.
With the power creep of YGO, knocking out side decks will also nearly knock out all rogue decks.
The idea is fine but not with the cards that exists today. The meta will be whatever can barf out a full board in 1 turn and become a game of rock paper scissors.
I think if we're gonna get rid of the side deck, then we need to change the deck size limit to compensate for it. Change it so you have to play 55-60 cards instead of 40-60.
Basically just put your side deck in the main deck.
This automatically makes your main deck less consistent, which is a very good thing at this point in the game. You still have 5 slots to play around with, so there's still some decision making in your deck size.
55 is such a weird number, I feel like 50-60 cards is fair enough
That barely affects consistency for the top decks at all, which are already so consistent they're now running more than 40 cards, while massively screwing over weaker decks. It's a bad idea.
Also there are some real room temperature IQ takes in these comments lmao
It's a team APS comment section what do you expect?
@@Honest_Mids_Masher a few reasonable ideas, but i guess I have too much faith in other people.
I like the idea of getting rid of the side deck. Like… no, Chad, your Kash/Tear/Purrely/Fiendsmith/Unchained mashup pile didn’t win the match. The Orcust engine you swapped most of that disjointed nonsense out for after game 1 won the match.
It once again goes back to the issue that ygo is too powerful, or more specifically too consistent for its own good. I'd be curious to see how a no-side deck (or at least a reduced side deck) would change deckbuilding in the tcg
Siding is important for bo3. But I wouldn't be too put off using a full other deck. But I believe it will be extra expensive to play the game. Because you wouldn't be able to use cards between decks. Like staples unless you got them again. Konami might love the idea forcing players to buy double the amount of cards needed to play. But on the impact that would have at locals.
Idk how feasible it'd be in a tournament setting but once the 45 minutes run out, the duel continues but each player has exactly 60 seconds to play their turn and have to immediately proceed to the end phase once the timer runs out. There are certain cards that could complicate this rule, like nightmare pain forcing the battle phase comes to mind, but it feels like a better way to finish a duel rather a lame lp burn/gain wincon
It might sound interesting, but I suspect that as a matter of enforcement, it would be a nightmare.
That would work in Master Duel because each player has their own timer. If the opponent plays a card and you need to think about a response, you're using up your own time to do so.
There's no way this can work in the TCG without introducing chess clocks where the button is pressed each time priority is passed. Otherwise, each second you use thinking about a response, you're using up your opponent's extremely limited time. Not only would that open the doors to even more timer abuse than currently exists with slow playing, but people also genuinely need time to read and identify cards, confirm the game state and think about the best course of action. If I play a card you've never seen before with 10 seconds left on the clock, what do you do? Let it through just to be nice and lose when it turns out to be a game-winning card, negate it without reading and lose when it turns out to not be that important, or read it and effectively end my turn on the spot?
But would that not mean that players bring a going first and a going second deck and "side in" the going second deck when they will go second?
It seems to me that this would just end up making the problem worse because now you effectively have a 40 card sideboard for when you go second.
Side deck is not the problem, problem is ending the duel. There should be just extra turn for opponents and it would just fix the issue.
honestly a great idea!! but remember CERTAIN ppl crying cuz they couldnt auto win with their side deck. (they havent won since)
Best of 3 still won't stop the problem of slow play. Since you can't play the whole day or go in overtime that. Tha would be a new problem.
Shorting the side deck limited would help. enfoce the time limited in side decking and have time limited in turn would help too.
i played duelingbook for the first time yesterday and people have very bad behavior there
It's no different than real life.