Maybe you should try to make a diy universal test machine. This will take no effort to test the material, remove the speed variable and you could even graph the strain stress curve (giving you a lot of usefull information) if you measure the strain.@@MyTechFun
Perfect!! I am a mechanical engineer academic too and just found your site after a search for PPA-CF. I love your approach and superb results presentation. New subscriber!
@@GeekDetour I don’t discriminate based on the number of fingers, only on the strength of the muscles and the ability to crush a watermelon between ones thighs.
Yes! Please test the filaments in Qidi machines!!! The heated chamber is great on the Q1, but the plus4 is better. Just be aware of the current issue of the heater being blocked if you lower the build plate all the way while printing!
Btw, the temperature resistance for the PET-CF is *after annealing*, if you don't anneal it will fail much earlier exactly as you showed. The same applies to PPA too, but due to the even higher resistance it's less noticeable
@@MyTechFun for PET you just chuck it at 80°, wait two hours, ramp to 120°, then hold there depending on part thickness. If you also do a slow cooldown the parts will warp less
It would be cool to see an "Annealed vs as printed" video, with the typical semicrystalline polymers like PET, PA6, PA12, PPA, PLA, and most importantly PPS
I made the same note. Was reading the Polymaker Fiberon PET-CF TDS the other day and the pre and post printing steps seemed very critical for maximum performance.
Thanks for you work and all the time involved in testing and making videos! I have just ordered 10 spools of Siraya Tech Fibreheart PAHT-CF PPA, so looking forward to your test and hoping for good results!
CLOUGH 42 ran into similar layer adhesion issues with his tests, and Bambu pinned it down to failing to COMPLETELY turn off cooling. Made a huge difference for him. Give it a shot.
I saw the video. I will have another testing with PPA, when I don't use default settings any more (as mentioned in the video, 310°C etc.). There may be small problem with overhangs, if I turn off the part cooling (watch that Benchy in this vid.) But I will give it a try, when I finish the Qidi Plus 4 review.
Thank you I was looking for this specific comment after watching the other video review, which went down the rabbit hole of chasing the missing layer adhesion vs spec 😁
@@MyTechFun as for PA6CF i completely turn off part cooling but give it about 20-30% for bridging and steep overhangs. To be more effective i also 'strecht' the time/length ot the beginning of the colling fan and ending. Basically i tried to shift it 'forwards'. It starts around 2mm sooner than the actual bridge and ends 2mm sooner, so that the spooling up and down of the fan is included for the time the fan is turnd on
What was the chamber temp when printing the ppacf? i saw from other test that it needs to be at lest 50C for it to get close its optimal strength for the z direction and fans completely off, from clough42 newest video this was able to bring the strength in the z direction up by about 40%
I feel like this is a filament where you would really seem some great improvements from printing at 80C plus chamber temps. Understandably though testing that would only appeal to a very niche audience.
I'd love to see this printed at 320C. I'd assume it will have better layer adhesion, but I wonder how other properties will change. That could be an interesting test - printing the same filaments at the minimum, midpoint, and maximum temperatures to measure how it changes the properties of the printed parts.
Looking forward to this video. I don't even know, why, I will not probably buy it never ever. But it is very interesting that you can at home print such engineering materials nowadays.
You should try printing at 320 and anneal the PPA-CF. Then retest. If it ever strikes you, give the PPS-CF from Fiberon(polymaker) a go and compare with the PPA-CF. It’s another ridiculously expensive engineering filament but amazing results, comparable to those you had with the Bambú Lab material. Thanks for the video!!
Thank you, looking forward to more tests with other temperatures. Would also really welcome you testing annealing with this material. I have like 10 engineering materials (mostly nylon-cf's) and this so far is my favorite by far, so strong and so easy to print as well. Only one coming close might be add:north PC-CF, hope you'll get to test that some day. Probably even stronger, but harder to print.
For drying, I recommend a large toaster oven with a metal tray and use aluminum foil to cover the filament on aluminum spools. The aluminum foil and tray block direct absorption of radiation from the heating elements. This minimizes thermal decomposition or hydrolysis. Most toaster oven have a timer, but some allow for continuous heating. An even better solution would use vacuum to reduce the drying temperature, for reduced decomposition/hydrolysis, but high temperature greatly increases the rate of moisture diffusion from the core of the filament. Try PPS next!
Great video. I just bought 1kg of PET-CF, 1kg of PA6-CF, and 0.75kg of PPA-CF which was a lot and I know which ones to use now. For the layer adhesion, other than the high nozzle temp, on the Qidi Plus 4 I would set the chamber temp to 65c as well. Also at 7:41 you can see gaps in the lines which would also cause issues as there is missing material contact.
Have you ever tested a piece of CFK (or some other materials) as a reference? Would be interesting to know, how 3DPrinted materials compare to stuff like CFK, wood, metal, injection molded plastic, etc.
For your Z test what was your chamber temp? An active chamber heater will help with getting better layer adhesion along with the increased nozzle temps. The TDS for that filament list a chamber temps between 50 and 80c. Getting that chamber closer to 80 will give you better isotropic properties, this will also make it stronger in the xy direction too. You can see in you horizontal twist test that the layers separated, which is probably most of the failure mode. Get that plus4 up and running and redo all your engineering filaments. I bet they will all perform better with the actively heated chamber.
I've got the plus4 its a very good printer with a few quirks. The default profiles I find tend to under extrude. Sometimes more flow is needed other times they've been too conservative with temperature. For example ASA had gaps in first layer. After changing bed temperature to 100c and increasing initial layer temperature by 5 c and chamber temperature to 65c it prints exceptionally well. With PLA just increasing flow ratio to 1.00 was sufficient. Materials with abrasives are the worst thiugh so the nozzle is very restrictive. Wood pla needs 1.1 flow ratio. PETG CF needed to increase to 0.98-0.99 to print well.
Great video as always, another person was able to get the exact same Z test strength results as you, but was able to increase it to 59-62 afterwards by turning off "slow printing down for better layer cooling" and chambers temps were in the mid 50's to 60C I can't test this myself until my plus4 gets here in a few days. My X1C motors likes to skip steps when the chamber temps is above 60C.
Could you re-run the tests after annealing the parts to measure the effects? This could help us understand if it's a waste of time or not. Kind of like your filament drying findings.
As for layer adhesion... If you need better layer adhesion you should really go beyond "maximum" printing temperature. For example, there is a lot of difference between printing ABS on 245C and 270C. Of course, fan as low as possible, if not turned off. You can't expect small details or overhangs to be printed beautifuly, but layer adhesion is noticeably increased.
Great testing! I'd bet the PET-CF needs annealing to reach its best specs, though I'm not sure if you did that or not. Definitely looking forward to your Plus4 review! Mine has been fantastic so far and right now I'm printing special PP-GF30 filament at 290C with beautiful results. Only difficulty is build surface, which isn't on Qidi since PP doesn't like top stick to anything except PP.
@@MyTechFun Interesting. It isn't mentioned on the product page at all. A bit misleading to give the specs without the caveat. I was only aware because I just read the Polymaker Fiberon PET-CF17 TDS and it highly encouraged annealing. They at least have a note on it at the bottom of their product page. If you download the Bambu Lab TDS linked near the bottom of the page for their PET-CF, annealing is only mentioned in one spot. The note under Specimen Test reads "All the specimens were printed at the following settings: Nozzle Temperature = 270 °C, Printing Speed = 100 mm/s, Bed Temperature = 80 °C, Infill Density = 100%. All the specimens were annealed and dried at 80 °C for 12 h before testing. And the suggested annealing temperature of models printed with Bambu PET-CF is 80 to 140 °C, and the time is 6 to 12 hours. The annealing effect depends on the annealing temperature, time and the model itself: size, structure, infill and other printing settings; some prints may deform and warp after annealing. When drying the filament and annealing the prints, it‘s required to use an oven that has big enough inside volume and can provides even temperature distribution, such as a blast drying oven (forced-air drying oven), and the filament and prints need to be away from the heater, and a micro-wave oven or kitchen oven is not compatible, otherwise the filament and prints can get damaged."
Use molecular sieves as a desiccant. It is way better than silica gel absorbing the moisture. Vacuum is only helpful for you to make sure that there is no leak in your gaskets.
Since filaments absorb moisture from the air, and you vacuum out most of the air, it stands to reason that less moisture will be absorbed under a vacuum.
I'd be interested to see if you can improve the layer adhesion with an actively heated chamber. Considering the new bambu machine will likely have it, it would be good to know if it is worth it.
Gotta wonder how much of the moisture loss during the drying stage was moisture in the cardboard vs filament directly. I'm not about to suggest despooling an entire spool of this absurdly expensive stuff, but it'd be an interesting topic to explore if the opportunity was there.
I saw the video. I will have another testing with PPA, when I don't use default settings any more (as mentioned in the video, 310°C etc.). There may be small problem with overhangs, if I turn off the part cooling (watch that Benchy in this vid.) But I will give it a try, when I finish the Qidi Plus 4 review.
This is surely a very interesting material for more demanding parts. I wish you could do some more extensive testing on the temperature part, creep over several heat cycles, stifness at high temperatures or extended time at elevated temps, since those properties is what makes expensive plastics worth it :) maybe we should donate money so you can buy an industrial oven :)
hmm really interesting, clough42 got higer tensile XY numbers, like almost 60% higher. I think this will be interesting to test in the new QIDI machine too see if there is any difference. BTW can't wait for PET-CF results :)
I already contacted the company, their words: "we are limiting sponsorships to US-based affiliates only". And they didn't changed their mind, even when I told them, that most of my viewers are from US. I am just not curious enough to buy it myself (I can't afford it with so low number of views)
Regarding the moisture change, I keep my most used filaments in Polymaker dry boxes (from PolyDryer), and I was very surprised when the % went from below 10% to 22% in less than a month and even the desiccant changed colour from orange to black. I expected it to be able to keep my spools relatively moisture free for at least a month, but it seems like I have to dry them every time I want to print (if it's a material I print with less than 2x a month), since some materials really should be kept at
@@riba2233 Which value are you even referring to? I can't find one that is either 160 MPA or 120 MPA in QIDI Wiki for said filament. For me, I would like to see actual results. That is why I asked if he tested that specific filament.
Would he nice to see the difference between this and the QiDi PAHT-CF (PPA-CF). The qidi has less overall strength but the layer adhesion seems to be better. Also they have UltraPA which is PPA without fiber reinforcement and shows insane layer adhesion based off of their data sheet.
I see that you are just using the minimum area in the tensile test. Could you share the geometry of the tensile test sample so I can try to get a number for the stress concentration factor? Next to this you might also need to correct for the geometry of the layers. I am really curious how Bambu got their 208 MPa number.
Great video. I'm curious how it compares to Markforged's Onyx. Also, I would love filament storage comparisons! I live in a very hot and humid place, Louisiana, US 🔥💦
I do 1-1.5mm³s flow (Custom-Made Volcano heater block and MicroSwiss CM2 hybrid nozzle) at 0.12mm layer height for mold like parts. 1-1 ratio, remove overlapping, and sometimes go back to Simplify3D as their algorithm narrows extrusion to fill gaps rather than trying to inject into them. Meaning, when I break them to test the print they don't break on the layer lines but rather as if it was molded. At that speed you can avoid part cooling almost completely, as it's terrible for tempering the plastic and layer adhesion Amazing content science man! 🫡
For better layer adhesion it is recommended to print with a nozzle temp as close to 300c as you can get, if not higher, as well as turning off the part cooling fan entirely, even for overhangs. Other youtubers also got better results when they insulated their enclosed printer and annealed the parts at 140c overnight.
This makes me want an active heated chamber xy printer with 350°c+ nozzle temp and 120°c heat bed Maybe that will be Bambu next generation printer? I'm looking forward to the QIDI printer review with this filament 👍🏻😊
Ive printed PPA-CF at 340C in a 110C heated chamber and got around 70% strength in Z vs in XY. I also annealed it. it likes hot it's really not a plastic that should be printed on a Bambu x1c lol. to be fair this was 3dxtech ppa not Bambu
Your testing is greatly appreciated. However, what is missing on youtube is informed mechanical design guidance regarding 1) how to apply these test results to the selection of the right material for fabrication of specific printed parts 2) when should a part be split and made in 2 different materials and 3) how to add common features to mechanical objects to improve the design (fillets on cantilevers, etc). And then having this guidance tested in comparison of with and without these added features. The 3d printing community would benefit from some Mech Eng guidance. No one else is doing this and it is sorely needed.
Slant 3D does some, though they aren't perfect. Functional Print Friday is pretty solid. NeedItMakeIt has def done some interesting testing and guidance on 3D printing for functional uses. Overall agree with you, just giving some suggestions.
ohhh that qidi isn't safe. The PCB that controls the chamber temperature even with the firmware update has a choke that will heat up to over 170 degrees. It's not supposed to get that hot.
Very interesting video. You should have printed right after opening the package. How do you know if the moisture reduction was from the spool or the actual filament? It seems that the spool is some type of cardboard. I'm sure cardboard absorbs humidity as well. Thank you.
@riba2233 I would like to see the results as a comparison to after to see the differences both in print quality and mechanical strength of printing "wet". Of course his "wet" and mine in the Houston area may be very different.
@@tracemyersx you can't be sure that 1. They have dried filament after extruding 2. That they packaged it properly in time, not to mention if it doesn't come in mylar bag Sure, sometimes or often it will be ok, but if you are paying 100-200 for a roll then you will dry it. Wet filament can print very poorly, idk if you have ever seen how bad it can get lol
You decided that because it gained 1g after two weeks vacuum storage that you should dry it every time.... test it when "wet" (after storage) to see how much difference it makes....
I accidently annealed a full spool of sunlu pla+ at 70c for 12 hours in a drier. When printing it, it required higher temps to print without skipping. Might be worth testing to see if it retains any temp resistance?
@riba2233 understood. Initially thought no as well since it was rearranging the crystals and remelting to normal pla+. But after using it more, it needs to be printed above 250, tested up to 300 while still printing reasonably well. Being able to print pla at these temps has a noticeable effect on layer adhesion. Not sure if it affects any other properties.
The layer adhesion issue is definitely weaker due to low print temperatures. CNC kitchen showed how *slow and hot* printing can dramatically increase layer adhesion, up to 80% of XY strength. CF materials won't achieve this ratio because of the orientation of the fibers, but it should be much stronger.
Igor, I found quite interesting video about composite of filaments. It's more and more popular to have idex or toolchanger in Open Source society. I would be very interested in some tests performed by you. There are some videos (e.g. ua-cam.com/video/KHlDEiAdkUE/v-deo.html) but none of these available on youtube are with such professional and engineering approach like yours. Btw if anyone would be also interested in such video, please like this comment, that Igor will notice it
Please don't stop doing the shear tests! They are the most useful test!
That was partly a joke, but it convinced me, to buy 500 kg tensile testing machine, not 200 kg (what was my original idea)
Maybe you should try to make a diy universal test machine. This will take no effort to test the material, remove the speed variable and you could even graph the strain stress curve (giving you a lot of usefull information) if you measure the strain.@@MyTechFun
> They [shear] are the most useful test!
Why do you say that?
@@nlkatzIt might just be the most useful test for them.
Perfect!! I am a mechanical engineer academic too and just found your site after a search for PPA-CF. I love your approach and superb results presentation. New subscriber!
15:20 Beyond being an excellent content creator and a very thorough tester, you are also a man of true culture
The girl is SO strong she even has 6 FINGERS - go back at 15:20 and check it out 🤣 ...Now, thinking of it, maybe that's not a problem at all 🤔
@@GeekDetour I don’t discriminate based on the number of fingers, only on the strength of the muscles and the ability to crush a watermelon between ones thighs.
Yes! Please test the filaments in Qidi machines!!! The heated chamber is great on the Q1, but the plus4 is better. Just be aware of the current issue of the heater being blocked if you lower the build plate all the way while printing!
Fantastic information.
Seems like this could be a useful filament for a few build projects...
Oh, and I really like your testing of a material vs many brands. Very useful in guiding my purchase decisions.
I am glad. There will be 2 more. 10x transparent PETG and 8x black ABS. YESSSS, same colors this time :-)
The comparison to PET-CF is exactly what I was hoping for. Thank you! Another very useful video.
You're one of the only people I have ever clicked the bell icon for. Your content, your way, is valuable to me!
Btw, the temperature resistance for the PET-CF is *after annealing*, if you don't anneal it will fail much earlier exactly as you showed. The same applies to PPA too, but due to the even higher resistance it's less noticeable
Oh, on time. Now I have to reprint and anneal a few objects 😂
@@MyTechFun for PET you just chuck it at 80°, wait two hours, ramp to 120°, then hold there depending on part thickness. If you also do a slow cooldown the parts will warp less
It would be cool to see an "Annealed vs as printed" video, with the typical semicrystalline polymers like PET, PA6, PA12, PPA, PLA, and most importantly PPS
I made the same note. Was reading the Polymaker Fiberon PET-CF TDS the other day and the pre and post printing steps seemed very critical for maximum performance.
@@802Garage man, didn't realize so many brands were getting in on the PET-CF trend. Great.
Thanks for you work and all the time involved in testing and making videos! I have just ordered 10 spools of Siraya Tech Fibreheart PAHT-CF PPA, so looking forward to your test and hoping for good results!
Always good to add new filaments to the toolbox for some of us who makes parts for demanding use :)
I am glad that I am not alone :-) Thank you for the support!
Please try unfilled PPA from qidi.
I m pretty sur the CF is killing the layer adhesion.
Best filament tests on youtube 👌🏻
CLOUGH 42 ran into similar layer adhesion issues with his tests, and Bambu pinned it down to failing to COMPLETELY turn off cooling. Made a huge difference for him. Give it a shot.
I saw the video. I will have another testing with PPA, when I don't use default settings any more (as mentioned in the video, 310°C etc.). There may be small problem with overhangs, if I turn off the part cooling (watch that Benchy in this vid.) But I will give it a try, when I finish the Qidi Plus 4 review.
Thank you I was looking for this specific comment after watching the other video review, which went down the rabbit hole of chasing the missing layer adhesion vs spec 😁
@@MyTechFun can't wait!
@@MyTechFun as for PA6CF i completely turn off part cooling but give it about 20-30% for bridging and steep overhangs. To be more effective i also 'strecht' the time/length ot the beginning of the colling fan and ending. Basically i tried to shift it 'forwards'. It starts around 2mm sooner than the actual bridge and ends 2mm sooner, so that the spooling up and down of the fan is included for the time the fan is turnd on
What setting allows you to ramp the fan speed up early? I was wondering about this for my ASA. I use orca slicer
Dude, your testing protocols and video presentation is absolutely on point and very efficient watching.
Thank you very much, Gus
FYI Qidi and Siraya Tech both have PPA CF filaments now, and way cheaper than Bambu. would be nice to compare them all. Thank you 🙌
also raise3D, it's just more expensive
Raise3d don't deserve any money they're horrible. @@riba2233
Brands should give to him these materials… it’s so expensive 😅
@@Flagazz they do mostly
really like your methodical approach (y)
great video as always man. super informative, love your stuff!
What was the chamber temp when printing the ppacf? i saw from other test that it needs to be at lest 50C for it to get close its optimal strength for the z direction and fans completely off, from clough42 newest video this was able to bring the strength in the z direction up by about 40%
I feel like this is a filament where you would really seem some great improvements from printing at 80C plus chamber temps. Understandably though testing that would only appeal to a very niche audience.
I'd love to see this printed at 320C. I'd assume it will have better layer adhesion, but I wonder how other properties will change. That could be an interesting test - printing the same filaments at the minimum, midpoint, and maximum temperatures to measure how it changes the properties of the printed parts.
Now that was science! Thank you.
desktop materials just get better and better, great for hobbyists. Thanks for the testing
So awesome was waiting for this video! Thank you
Looking forward to this video. I don't even know, why, I will not probably buy it never ever. But it is very interesting that you can at home print such engineering materials nowadays.
You should try printing at 320 and anneal the PPA-CF. Then retest. If it ever strikes you, give the PPS-CF from Fiberon(polymaker) a go and compare with the PPA-CF. It’s another ridiculously expensive engineering filament but amazing results, comparable to those you had with the Bambú Lab material. Thanks for the video!!
Great video, great information.
Thank you, looking forward to more tests with other temperatures. Would also really welcome you testing annealing with this material.
I have like 10 engineering materials (mostly nylon-cf's) and this so far is my favorite by far, so strong and so easy to print as well. Only one coming close might be add:north PC-CF, hope you'll get to test that some day. Probably even stronger, but harder to print.
For drying, I recommend a large toaster oven with a metal tray and use aluminum foil to cover the filament on aluminum spools. The aluminum foil and tray block direct absorption of radiation from the heating elements. This minimizes thermal decomposition or hydrolysis. Most toaster oven have a timer, but some allow for continuous heating.
An even better solution would use vacuum to reduce the drying temperature, for reduced decomposition/hydrolysis, but high temperature greatly increases the rate of moisture diffusion from the core of the filament.
Try PPS next!
I started using Siraya Tech’s PET CF and I love it, great stuff and not too hard on your wallet.
good video, great info, my love the "tapping" test at 200C, looking forward for qidi test with it
I just tested a plus 4, and was genuinely impressed. Excited to see what you think of it.
Looking forward to your test of the Qidi Plus4.
Wow this is an impressive material. The temperature range is super impressive
Great video. I just bought 1kg of PET-CF, 1kg of PA6-CF, and 0.75kg of PPA-CF which was a lot and I know which ones to use now. For the layer adhesion, other than the high nozzle temp, on the Qidi Plus 4 I would set the chamber temp to 65c as well. Also at 7:41 you can see gaps in the lines which would also cause issues as there is missing material contact.
Great test, as always. Thank you!
Can you try annealing the parts in an oven to see if that improves layer adhesion and by how much?
Excellent Video. Please do the storage one too!
Have you ever tested a piece of CFK (or some other materials) as a reference?
Would be interesting to know, how 3DPrinted materials compare to stuff like CFK, wood, metal, injection molded plastic, etc.
The Pa6-cf vs Pa6-gf video does not appear in the Videos section of your page for some reason? but I find it when I google.
The shear tests are amazing. It would be a shame to miss out on them
For your Z test what was your chamber temp? An active chamber heater will help with getting better layer adhesion along with the increased nozzle temps. The TDS for that filament list a chamber temps between 50 and 80c. Getting that chamber closer to 80 will give you better isotropic properties, this will also make it stronger in the xy direction too. You can see in you horizontal twist test that the layers separated, which is probably most of the failure mode. Get that plus4 up and running and redo all your engineering filaments. I bet they will all perform better with the actively heated chamber.
I've got the plus4 its a very good printer with a few quirks.
The default profiles I find tend to under extrude. Sometimes more flow is needed other times they've been too conservative with temperature.
For example ASA had gaps in first layer.
After changing bed temperature to 100c and increasing initial layer temperature by 5 c and chamber temperature to 65c it prints exceptionally well.
With PLA just increasing flow ratio to 1.00 was sufficient.
Materials with abrasives are the worst thiugh so the nozzle is very restrictive.
Wood pla needs 1.1 flow ratio.
PETG CF needed to increase to 0.98-0.99 to print well.
Great video as always, another person was able to get the exact same Z test strength results as you, but was able to increase it to 59-62 afterwards by turning off "slow printing down for better layer cooling" and chambers temps were in the mid 50's to 60C I can't test this myself until my plus4 gets here in a few days. My X1C motors likes to skip steps when the chamber temps is above 60C.
My P1P has the same issue, most annoying.
Could you re-run the tests after annealing the parts to measure the effects? This could help us understand if it's a waste of time or not. Kind of like your filament drying findings.
I would love to see you print the PPS-CF once you get the higher temp printer
So thorough
As for layer adhesion... If you need better layer adhesion you should really go beyond "maximum" printing temperature. For example, there is a lot of difference between printing ABS on 245C and 270C. Of course, fan as low as possible, if not turned off. You can't expect small details or overhangs to be printed beautifuly, but layer adhesion is noticeably increased.
Great testing! I'd bet the PET-CF needs annealing to reach its best specs, though I'm not sure if you did that or not. Definitely looking forward to your Plus4 review! Mine has been fantastic so far and right now I'm printing special PP-GF30 filament at 290C with beautiful results. Only difficulty is build surface, which isn't on Qidi since PP doesn't like top stick to anything except PP.
Several comments mentioned the annealing, but why is it not mentioned in the product page on Bambu Store website?
@@MyTechFun Interesting. It isn't mentioned on the product page at all. A bit misleading to give the specs without the caveat. I was only aware because I just read the Polymaker Fiberon PET-CF17 TDS and it highly encouraged annealing. They at least have a note on it at the bottom of their product page.
If you download the Bambu Lab TDS linked near the bottom of the page for their PET-CF, annealing is only mentioned in one spot. The note under Specimen Test reads "All the specimens were printed at the following settings: Nozzle Temperature = 270 °C, Printing Speed = 100 mm/s, Bed Temperature = 80 °C, Infill Density = 100%. All the specimens were annealed and dried at 80 °C for 12 h before testing. And the suggested annealing temperature of models printed with Bambu PET-CF is 80 to 140 °C, and the time is 6 to 12 hours. The annealing effect depends on the annealing temperature, time and the model itself: size, structure, infill and other printing settings; some prints may deform and warp after annealing. When drying the filament and annealing the prints, it‘s required to use an oven that has big enough inside volume and can provides even temperature distribution, such as a blast drying oven (forced-air drying oven), and the filament and prints need to be away from the heater, and a micro-wave oven or kitchen oven is not compatible, otherwise the filament and prints can get damaged."
Please try keeping it stored in your vacum tupperware but with dessicant inside it to see if there is any difference in the moisture absorbption.
Use molecular sieves as a desiccant. It is way better than silica gel absorbing the moisture. Vacuum is only helpful for you to make sure that there is no leak in your gaskets.
Since filaments absorb moisture from the air, and you vacuum out most of the air, it stands to reason that less moisture will be absorbed under a vacuum.
I'd be interested to see if you can improve the layer adhesion with an actively heated chamber. Considering the new bambu machine will likely have it, it would be good to know if it is worth it.
Did you note the chamber temperature?? I heard these higher temp materials work better at higher chamber temps.
Gotta wonder how much of the moisture loss during the drying stage was moisture in the cardboard vs filament directly. I'm not about to suggest despooling an entire spool of this absurdly expensive stuff, but it'd be an interesting topic to explore if the opportunity was there.
Wonder if you have ever tried PPS. Would love to see it
I will soon. 3 (Bambu, Polymaker and Qidi)
16:50 For a meaningful measurement, use aluminum spools that don't absorb moisture. They can also tolerate higher temperature for drying.
Did you see Clough42's approach to reach way better layer adhesion? What do you think?
I saw the video. I will have another testing with PPA, when I don't use default settings any more (as mentioned in the video, 310°C etc.). There may be small problem with overhangs, if I turn off the part cooling (watch that Benchy in this vid.) But I will give it a try, when I finish the Qidi Plus 4 review.
This is surely a very interesting material for more demanding parts. I wish you could do some more extensive testing on the temperature part, creep over several heat cycles, stifness at high temperatures or extended time at elevated temps, since those properties is what makes expensive plastics worth it :) maybe we should donate money so you can buy an industrial oven :)
hmm really interesting, clough42 got higer tensile XY numbers, like almost 60% higher. I think this will be interesting to test in the new QIDI machine too see if there is any difference.
BTW can't wait for PET-CF results :)
James printed with a 60+ degree chamber and I think that makes a difference!
@@Eric_Wolfe-Schulte not for XY. higher temp chamber only improved Z tensile slightly, and turning off cooling fan improved it by a lot
Can we get a comparison test against the new filament Tullomer? Apparently the only place to get it is dynamism at this time.
I contacted the company, we will see if they will reply.
You should try Taulman alloy 910 (nylon alloy)
I already contacted the company, their words: "we are limiting sponsorships to US-based affiliates only". And they didn't changed their mind, even when I told them, that most of my viewers are from US. I am just not curious enough to buy it myself (I can't afford it with so low number of views)
@@MyTechFun That's super weird. May be a tax thing.
@@MyTechFun It's not worth it anyway, poor mechanical properties combines with much warping make for a poor filament.
did you make this moisture drying tests with an empty cardbord spool to see how much water is in the spool?
Subscribed. And I don't even have a 3d printer. haha
Great content, and I love the humour
Regarding the moisture change, I keep my most used filaments in Polymaker dry boxes (from PolyDryer), and I was very surprised when the % went from below 10% to 22% in less than a month and even the desiccant changed colour from orange to black.
I expected it to be able to keep my spools relatively moisture free for at least a month, but it seems like I have to dry them every time I want to print (if it's a material I print with less than 2x a month), since some materials really should be kept at
168 vs 120mpa in specs...
@@riba2233 Which value are you even referring to? I can't find one that is either 160 MPA or 120 MPA in QIDI Wiki for said filament.
For me, I would like to see actual results. That is why I asked if he tested that specific filament.
@@MiChAeLoKGB tensile of course, bambu has much higher rating for some reason
hello, i would like to know if you performe annealing before mechanical test ?
Would he nice to see the difference between this and the QiDi PAHT-CF (PPA-CF).
The qidi has less overall strength but the layer adhesion seems to be better.
Also they have UltraPA which is PPA without fiber reinforcement and shows insane layer adhesion based off of their data sheet.
I think you need to start choosing the thumbnails from now on 😂👍🏼
I see that you are just using the minimum area in the tensile test. Could you share the geometry of the tensile test sample so I can try to get a number for the stress concentration factor? Next to this you might also need to correct for the geometry of the layers. I am really curious how Bambu got their 208 MPa number.
My test objects: www.printables.com/model/465670-mytechfun-test-objects (this is "no hole" version)
Great video. I'm curious how it compares to Markforged's Onyx. Also, I would love filament storage comparisons! I live in a very hot and humid place, Louisiana, US 🔥💦
I do 1-1.5mm³s flow (Custom-Made Volcano heater block and MicroSwiss CM2 hybrid nozzle) at 0.12mm layer height for mold like parts. 1-1 ratio, remove overlapping, and sometimes go back to Simplify3D as their algorithm narrows extrusion to fill gaps rather than trying to inject into them. Meaning, when I break them to test the print they don't break on the layer lines but rather as if it was molded. At that speed you can avoid part cooling almost completely, as it's terrible for tempering the plastic and layer adhesion
Amazing content science man! 🫡
What's the difference between this and polymaker PPA-CF?
There is no polymaker ppa-cf
@@riba2233 ah yeah I was thinking the PPS-CF
@@HeathFoster1 the difference is huge lol, totally different materials
@@riba2233 yeah I know.
For better layer adhesion it is recommended to print with a nozzle temp as close to 300c as you can get, if not higher, as well as turning off the part cooling fan entirely, even for overhangs. Other youtubers also got better results when they insulated their enclosed printer and annealed the parts at 140c overnight.
Can you include visual quality results?
One word: wow!
Have you printed is without any cooling? And also disabled overhang/ bridge cooling?
Have you tested / will you test Polymaker’s Fiberon PPS-CF?
Yes I will. Qidi, Bambulab and Polymaker pps
This makes me want an active heated chamber xy printer with 350°c+ nozzle temp and 120°c heat bed
Maybe that will be Bambu next generation printer?
I'm looking forward to the QIDI printer review with this filament 👍🏻😊
Expensive in this case means its half the price of the competitors. Would be interesting to compare it to them.
Not really half, raise 3d is 280 per kg this one is 208
That is one expensive Benchy!
Do you guys really really run your oven all night to dry your PA filament ? That's a crazy electricity bill :(
Ive printed PPA-CF at 340C in a 110C heated chamber and got around 70% strength in Z vs in XY. I also annealed it. it likes hot it's really not a plastic that should be printed on a Bambu x1c lol. to be fair this was 3dxtech ppa not Bambu
Your testing is greatly appreciated. However, what is missing on youtube is informed mechanical design guidance regarding 1) how to apply these test results to the selection of the right material for fabrication of specific printed parts 2) when should a part be split and made in 2 different materials and 3) how to add common features to mechanical objects to improve the design (fillets on cantilevers, etc). And then having this guidance tested in comparison of with and without these added features. The 3d printing community would benefit from some Mech Eng guidance. No one else is doing this and it is sorely needed.
Slant 3D does some, though they aren't perfect. Functional Print Friday is pretty solid. NeedItMakeIt has def done some interesting testing and guidance on 3D printing for functional uses. Overall agree with you, just giving some suggestions.
ohhh that qidi isn't safe. The PCB that controls the chamber temperature even with the firmware update has a choke that will heat up to over 170 degrees. It's not supposed to get that hot.
Love yhe sheer test. But could be done with a press.
I have a 1t chain hoist (scale is 500kg max), but I didn't know that it will be so strong.
Please compare it with PET-CF
I already did. It was almost the next video
The pet has to be annealed to reach 200C
Carbon fiber, is it safe?
yes, it is
Very nice, but the price...
Very interesting video. You should have printed right after opening the package. How do you know if the moisture reduction was from the spool or the actual filament? It seems that the spool is some type of cardboard. I'm sure cardboard absorbs humidity as well. Thank you.
No, you should never do that with serious materials
@riba2233 I would like to see the results as a comparison to after to see the differences both in print quality and mechanical strength of printing "wet". Of course his "wet" and mine in the Houston area may be very different.
@@tracemyersx you can't be sure that 1. They have dried filament after extruding
2. That they packaged it properly in time, not to mention if it doesn't come in mylar bag
Sure, sometimes or often it will be ok, but if you are paying 100-200 for a roll then you will dry it. Wet filament can print very poorly, idk if you have ever seen how bad it can get lol
You decided that because it gained 1g after two weeks vacuum storage that you should dry it every time.... test it when "wet" (after storage) to see how much difference it makes....
Cost? Layer adhesion?
Bingo
$150-160usd and and to improve layer adhesion needs a heated chamber to ~50c and NO FANS for cooling
I accidently annealed a full spool of sunlu pla+ at 70c for 12 hours in a drier. When printing it, it required higher temps to print without skipping. Might be worth testing to see if it retains any temp resistance?
ofc it doesn't. you change it's structure when remelting.
@riba2233 understood. Initially thought no as well since it was rearranging the crystals and remelting to normal pla+. But after using it more, it needs to be printed above 250, tested up to 300 while still printing reasonably well. Being able to print pla at these temps has a noticeable effect on layer adhesion. Not sure if it affects any other properties.
Too expensive for me, unless I was making a replacement part that was more expensive to purchase.
yes down side is its kak expensive
I'd love to print that, but, that stuff is pricy! 😮
The only three factors that really matter at all are layer adhesion, temperature resistance and creep.
No
The layer adhesion issue is definitely weaker due to low print temperatures. CNC kitchen showed how *slow and hot* printing can dramatically increase layer adhesion, up to 80% of XY strength. CF materials won't achieve this ratio because of the orientation of the fibers, but it should be much stronger.
Of course it has a weak point, that is its price. Wait, that seems to be my weak point.😅
To get the strongest results it has to have no fan
Engine parts
Igor, I found quite interesting video about composite of filaments. It's more and more popular to have idex or toolchanger in Open Source society. I would be very interested in some tests performed by you. There are some videos (e.g. ua-cam.com/video/KHlDEiAdkUE/v-deo.html) but none of these available on youtube are with such professional and engineering approach like yours.
Btw if anyone would be also interested in such video, please like this comment, that Igor will notice it