The Harsh Truth About the GOAT Debate
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- Опубліковано 26 бер 2022
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It’s crazy how one person can make a goat debate video better then espn
BETTER!!!!!
Wayyy better dude! It's just wow!
Wao! That’s an explosive analytical opinion. Damn RIGHT!!
Fr😂😂
It's why I dont bother watching Espn...
At least there's no debate that Jxmy is the goat of NBA UA-cam.
Kenny is close dawg don’t sleep
maybe the goat of educating casuals. But if you truly understand the game his channel just scratches the surface of basketball.
@@brendankamikawaji2562 no he’s not the only time he talks about the NBA is on Kenny4real and it’s not as in depth as Jimmy’s videos
*Mike Korzemba enters chat*
Fr
As a foreigner , this mans use of basic english lexicon to convey information effortlessly for me to understand Amazes me. I love you man 🏁
Dude you’re English lexicon is better than most people who speak English as a first language.
@@Katagatamekiller "It appears that my poor grasp of the English language has resulted in me needing to hear simple and succinct statements regarding the GOAT debate for the sport of Basketball." - Foreigner with better English than native English speakers
@@KatagatamekillerExactly 😂
Yeah, I thought the same 👍🏼
@@777wrathand then says "sorry for my bad english"
This was a beautifully made video with so many good points. The best GOAT debate video ever
Sorry, someone made a 30 minute video more in depth about this same type of stuff 4 years ago. MJ vs lebron goat debate so this reminded me of a copy and paste video honestly
ua-cam.com/video/tl3mR6eoEa8/v-deo.html&pp=ygURam9yZGFuIHZzIGxlYnJvbiA%3D
@@user-us2fq3mp5bthe issue is it was made 4 years ago
@@user-us2fq3mp5bvideo name?
For as well made as this video is he leaves out one of the most important metric in this debate and that is level of competition. Glaring mistake in my opinion - you can actually see the difference when you look at the footage. Anyone connected to sports, youth sports knows that coaching is constantly getting better, the pipeline for finding and developing young talent is getting better, and given the money and opportunity that goes along the NBA (credit to MJ for that) the talent, skills, and ability of each new generation of players just gets better and better. LeBron has had to play against much better competition. LeBron had had to continually develop his game and he has which is why his overall value and numbers have remained high, while MJ’s numbers declined. Michael was the ultimate competitor, but LeBron is the greatest player of all time. Think about this if you need more proof - how many times did MJ defend a Center? LeBron’s ability, even into his late thirties, to play all five positions, to guard any player on the court including Centers is not something MJ could do. Another important metric left out of this video and the GOAT debate IMHO. Loved MJ, but LeBron has surpassed him, and that is great for the game.
"ESPN already gives you a DAILY goat debate anyways"- Jxmy. Soooo true man 😂😜
This video was fucking trash!! It added nothing to the overall debate/discussion. It was JUST as bad as the ESPN and Undisputed takes, everybody do yourself a favor and check out uncut hoops video ua-cam.com/video/UwmAEKDhGsk/v-deo.html
This is the best video video I have ever seen about a goat debate without being a whole essay, very impressive, you always surprises and I love your content
Wow you saw a 15 minute video in 7 minutes!
I watched the whole video and it still says 6 mins ago. You just need to refresh
@@elgin_gibbins bro jus got caught in his lie😂😂he jus want the likes like damn bro watch the full video and learn first.
😂😂
Exactly but I think we can all agree the goat is Tyler Herro
This is literally the most insanely well put together youtube video I have ever seen. Production on point!
There are too many factors that would always make the debate unfair for both.
When MJ returned from retirement he was not in shape.
The competitiveness level is different. Different teams, different challenges, different assignments. The list is endless. There is no way this comparison would be fair.
I think is fair to say that each of them is the greatest in their eras.
That’s kinda how I see it, too. Also, unlike most sports, the powers that be in the NBA have never been shy about changing rules to try and make the game more interesting. The game reinvents itself all the time. A style of play (or player) who dominates in one era might be far more (or less) effective if he played 10 or 20 years before or after he actually did. The NBA is so different in 2024 than it was in 1994. Or even 2004. Or 2014.
Well said. But I still do get stuck on championships as a requirement to be the 'greatest'. To never lose a finals and never have one go to a game 7 is, to me, definitive. Bill Russell is Jordan's equal in this regard, for his rings and for his dominance over all-timer Wilt Chamberlain. Jordan overcame the NBA's all-time assist leader and a very good, very deep and well-coached Utah Jazz team.
Missing from this video is an analysis of post-season metrics.
@@pressvinyl4420That’s the thing, everyone can be surpassed in some aspect. Bill Russell is not equal to Jordan in terms of rings, he’s way past him lol
@@pressvinyl4420Different era cant be compared
“People don’t realize how good this kid is. They always focus on his dunking the basketball. If he didn’t dunk the ball, he’d be as great as any player who’s ever played this game.” - Jerry West on Michael Jordan….before Jordan ever stepped on an NBA court.
Game recognizes game
@@chandlerrodgers5415 West also didn’t think Magic would be a good point guard in the nba tbf
@@ki11acam_23 are you really trying to discredit jerry west
@@dkmrap1 is the statement true or not true?
@@jeromegarner7196 doesnt mea anything. q 6'9 pg was unprecedented
Dang I actually noticed how impressed I was with the structure of this video. The most important questions, and the most thorough explanations to them
Same
damn man, you did this brilliantly, you are brilliant, i've never seen your channel before but subscribed off of this, well balanced and just, brilliant
I'd like to see the advanced stats for just each player's first 15 seasons. If we're giving LeBron props for his longevity, we can't knock him for this with his 6+ additional years in the league where, presumably, his stats would start to lower some of these ratings. I still lean Jordan. But Jordan's decision to play fewer years must have had an impact on his advanced stats metrics too. That's what's a bit difficult about this to me. Jordan chose to emphasize, minus his two seasons with the Wizards, quality over quantity. I wonder how these advanced stats would compare taking the same top 15 seasons now that LeBron is at 21 or so.
Here's the thing though. Labrons last seasons are close to his peak seasons. He now scores like 2pts less per game to his career highs. The guy is insane for playing at such a high level at 39. Strangely, Jordan retired at 40, joining the NBA after 3 years in college and retired twice before his final retirement.
Stats are meaningless because they didn’t play against the same players. There’s no controlled variable
Jordan on the Wiz was a DAWG. Go back and check out those games before his injury in the first season.
This makes no sense. Then you should exclude wizards years as well for MJ lol. Again, this is just you stanning hard and panicking. Be fair when you want to exclude years. You can sort advance stats yourself anyways on tons of sites btw
@@MrGigglios First 15 seasons played. MJ's 14th and 15th were his 14th and 15th like LeBron's were his 14th and 15th, he just had a 16th, 17th, 18th, 19th, 20th, 21st... After 15 seasons, MJ was a slightly better scorer. James had a better overall record, more assists/game, more rebounds/game, and twice as many triple doubles. In terms of advanced stats, James had a higher points/shot attempt, higher points/replacement, etc. Still see a slight edge for Jordan in a number of fronts, but you have to look at LeBron's first 15 against Jordan's first 15 as these would inevitably be better than later years. Put another way, each additional year usually brings down the average a bit. Certainly was and would've been the case for Jordan. He chose to retire earlier to have higher average but less total volume for his numbers. His call. Our debate.
Man, this felt like a 4-hour documentary when in reality it was 15 minutes. Keep up the awesome work Jxmy!
Dude if it feels like the video is dragging on than that’s not good.
Yea that’s not a compliment saying it felt longer than what it was but I get what you’re trying to say
@@A5AP_SWEATSHIRT I think he’s trying to say in terms of the amount of content and the amazing formatting of it, not that it dragged on, I guess more so that he was “able to fit 4 hours of content in a 15 minute video” is one way you could interpret it
For real 😂😂
u tripping fym it felt like 4 hours?? it felt like 15 mins
Jimmy… this video is a masterpiece, that last minute and a half literally gave me chills and shivers down my spine. I’ve never been so intrigued by the “G.O.A.T. Talk” like this before. You didn’t once force yourself to answer the big question, “Who is The Greatest of All Time?”, I can tell that you just love basketball and love talking about it.
that last minute gave me chills
Bron plays no def and when he does he taking the easiest assignments. These mind bending feats hes talking about is coming off of being a liability on the def end
I don't agree with how he described their careers, writing subjectively like that you can make either look better and I think he made Lebron look better. Realistically you could have formulated those last 2 minutes to favor MJ's narrative by just phrasing it differently.
Example : Jordan was drafted on a terrible team with crack smokers, but weathered the storm of the Celtics, Pistons and Lakers to take the torch and become the dynasty that nobody could match, he had to retire to give other people the chance to win a ring. Lebron on the other side was drafted to a similarly terrible team, but he escaped the grind and formed 3 super teams whilst 4 rings in more tries.
When lebron gets 6 we can talk... just cause you score points dont make you the greatest
@@splitrivet8956 team sport bozo
Pretty nice video that put different perspective into dissecting the measurement of defining goat. In my opinion you could have added two more. This would be the game itself, which has a big influence to longevity of the career also. And the rivals they had to face to be crowned as the goat. The numbers games also becomes more irrelevant, because the game of basketball changed in those generation and the style also challenge to score changed. Just my 2 cents. Keep up the great work!
Excellent video! By far, 1 of the best I've seen on this topic. 🔥
Okay but it leaves out two important metrics - level of competition (LeBron has had much tougher competition), and overall versatility - ability to play all five positions - clear advantage to LeBron on both, and then add in the fact that he is a much better person - husband, father, teammate, ambassador for the game and for standing up for important issues outside the game, well you know how I feel about this question.
I've never watched NBA and don't know shit about basketball. It is just this guy's incredibly passionate storytelling that keeps me glued to whatever it is that he is talking about. Amazing man, hats off!
what song is this 13;50
@Frank P nah fr cuz like why don’t they watch basketball😂
And that is exactly how I got into basketball. Thank you jimmy
@@retrogaming2899 neither do I. I’m European, so the time difference makes it hard. And I’m a football fan, but love these videos
@@SimonGr8 ah that makes sense you should just watch re runs or something but I understand
Jimmy I have been watching you since 2018 and it never ceases to amaze me how regardless of views, subscribers, or the changing social environment your content is so damn consistent. So cool to see you've reached almost 2 million subscribers! Keep up the good work.
Thank me later💪
ua-cam.com/video/1sDire3XJlU/v-deo.html
Yo bro don't google your name 😂😂
Best video I have seen on the topic. Kudos. Absolutely top shelf.
ua-cam.com/video/tl3mR6eoEa8/v-deo.html&pp=ygURam9yZGFuIHZzIGxlYnJvbiA%3D
This is the GOAT video of the GOAT debate.
The difficulties of this GOAT debate is the fact that each player played in different eras with different rules and rule changes. I have to just appreciate each player for what they did in their individual eras
Plus mj retired early
This is such an easy way out of the GOAT debate, you're side-stepping it and not engaging with the topic at hand.
Just because the GOAT debate is difficult due to differences over different time period, doesn't mean it's impossible nor does it mean the debate is invalid.
@@aldrichemrys he’s right there were way different rules in Jordan’s era the lebrons era for example illegal defense this was a rule that made it strictly man to man there was only one defender in your way another person couldn’t leave his guy to help out that was illegal defense now imagine if lebron only had to blow pass one person
@@aldrichemrys skill set has changed the era of superteams have changed and rules are getting more different as it goes on
@@IHateStroads Exactly, hockey is really the only sport with an “undisputed” GOAT. Even then some believe it would be Mario Lemeiux for similar reasons. Shorter career, injuries, but shined very bright when they were there.
This is the best GOAT debate video ever. And not just because I mostly agree. But I love the way you provide facts and analysis while praising both players because they are AMAZING
Let me guess. You agree with his opinion. What a shocker
Bro Look at the Video by DANGERProductions I like that one even better
@@jsgr5382 You’re silly fam. It’s almost like you didn’t actually read the comment
Lebron and Jordan are equal. It depends on their teammates. Lebrons value grows as his teammates are worse. Jordan is the opposite.
@@theotherview1716 they are not equal. Jordan is better he can fit in more systems. You can plug him into any situation and they will have some form of success and his production won’t fluctuate.
Well made video. Couldn't agree more. The results are still pending!
When I think of the “best” of anything, I base my opinion on when the player was at their greatest in athletic performance. Staging one player against another. Otherwise there are too many variables.
This also might not be fair.
In MMA for instance, Anderson Silva had the best prime, but most people don't consider him the GOAT because he lost many fights outside his prime, they tend to answer Jon Jones.
Same thing with Ali vs Tyson.
The best unheard of stat for Jordan is leading the league in scoring and making all defensive first team in the same season. He did that 9 times! For Bron taking that 07 cavs team to the finals is an underrated achievement. Jordan never took a bad team to the finals. Both players have done things the other hasn’t. Let’s all appreciate the greats while we still can.
J Mendez Magic took His team to the Finals His rookie yr, started at center, won final's MVP, Kareem didn't play cause He was hurt. And your acting like Lebron losing is impressive.
Jordan early in His career faced more top 50 legends than any current player. And when He faced them He dropped record numbers like 63pts vs The Celtics (The Champs) in 86'.
Lebron is only relevant cause the league is watered down.
@@SwaggerLikeUz u acting like magic carried the lakers through the whole playoffs by hisself with a roster full of bums. kareem in the playoffs before getting hurt was putting 32 pts 12 rebounds 3 asts along with 3 blocks. no one is saying lebron losing is impressive but are talking about how he brought a team full of make a wish kids to the finals. The argument about how jordan faced more top 50 players is ain’t really effective since none of these current players really faced any top 50 players. Not only that the 63 pts jordan dropped against the celtics ended up in a loss. now i’m not saying it’s not impressive but if you arguing about lebron’s 2007 run not being impressive since he loss in the finals, then you can say the same about the 63 pts which are both dumb. saying lebron is only relevant cause he plays in a “watered down league” is retarded. so going against the dynasty warriors dynasty spurs big 3 celtics bulls led by mvp d rose just to name a few is watered down. come on now pls tell me how the league is watered down.
Edit: forgot to say how he had to go against the orlando magic led by superstar dwight howard who was winning 3 straight dpoys and the detroit pistons who at the time were contenders
@@SwaggerLikeUz bro just hating at this point 😭, they both the goats. One dominated the most talented basketball era ever, the other won every final he was playing so stop being a child
@@SwaggerLikeUz imagine being this mad that someone complemented lebron.
Grow up bruh.
was a weak East.
Literally one of the best vids by Jimmy that he's ever done. Just magnificent.
Makes me realize that Michael Jordan is the Usain Bolt of the NBA and LeBron is the Eliud Kipchoge. Both are masters of their thing, Michael at a fast unbeatable career at the fastest level, LeBron at sustained excellence. I’ve been done with the GOAT debates since Kobe passed, I’ve learned to just appreciate the greatness we get to watch live while it’s happening instead of fighting and reducing one side or the other.
@@SoDakZak well said brother
it's the music for me
let’s get a pt.2 sometime JH
Great Video. One thing I would mention is pressure. Lebron was on magazines at 17 and named greatest prospect ever, and told you better be great or else. He met all that and more.
I'm legit tired of the debate. But this was an amazing breakdown. Actually made me care again 😂
Immediate sub...
I like them both, they’ll always be at the top for me. Plumbers, Mickey Mouse ring, Soft, needed Pippen. I don’t care at this point, you can’t doubt they’re both the best at what they do
You weren’t already subbed? Shame on you.
Jk. Btw.
YOU WEREN’T ALREADY SUBBED?
You weren’t already subbed???
Alex Caruso vs Brian Scalabrine
The real GOAT debate
😂😂
fax
Put some respek on my boy Mamba
Bald Mamba Vs White Mamba
@@franz4044 Bald Mamba vs White Mamba vs Red Mamba
Wow thank u that was really a joy 2 watch
This video was absoloutely incredible brother !
This was so well crafted I almost shed a tear. Good stuff Jxmy
Hold your tear yet. Try this one: ua-cam.com/users/DANGERProductions2020
I wish these videos would factor in an in-depth discussion about teammates, strength of era, coaching etc. factors outside of individual play/accolades because all of that goes into the success a player has, too. Unseen or not. I’m really glad you touched on it. I appreciate that.
All sports improve every decade.
I highly suggest you watch this video then, it's more in-depth then this hogwash tbh. ua-cam.com/video/UwmAEKDhGsk/v-deo.html
He’s done videos on the most difficult championships, which correlates to the Era’s topic you mentioned.
If all of that is put into perspective then kobe is the greatest
Exactly, ultimately there are things that will forever haunt LeBron's GOAT debate regardless of what stats he finishes with.
1. His meltdown against Dallas.
2. Having a LOSING record in the finals - yes this matters and don't give me he faced a super team take since LeBron created multiple super teams and Harden did more against said super team. I mean thank God for the fake bubble championship which jmx has placed as one of the easiest championships of all time otherwise....
3. He ran and created multiple super teams to stack the deck.
4. LeBron's longevity is great but modern medicine/diet and rule changes and scheduling helped out with that a lot.
5. LeBron's scoring while great would not be as high without the 3 sec rule, just imagine if all his career a Gorbert or Giannis or Embiid could just wait in the paint as long as they want for LeBron to drive.
6. LeBron's offense might be great in year 19 but his defense is terrible, he is basically stat padding at this point.
7. LeBron is about to miss the playoffs with a super team he built AND with the affordance of a play in tournament when he is supposedly still in his prime and a top 10 player.
8. Free throw shooting and other holes/intangibles in is game like not having a killer instinct.
Thanks for clarifying this
Domination is the answer. Jordan was completely unstoppable with his team. Unprecedented in any sport.
for me its the killer mentality, win or die trying... thats the 1 thing missing in lebron.
Last time I checked the best team ever with the best winning record was GSW, so now curry is the goat?
Or does LeBron become the goat for stopping the best team?
@@c.i.j.5457did gsw 3peated twice? Did Curry win every final he was in? Well there you've your answer. No.
@@c.i.j.5457best winning record and lost the finals? Are you trying to embarrass yourself?
@@highvoltage1842 well to me it just seems that you guys don’t see the difference between a unstoppable team and an unstoppable player 😂
MJ bot bounced in the first round 3 times and even got swept twice, here you call him unstoppable? 🤥
Let’s not forget he got eliminated from the playoffs without reaching the finals 6 years in a row 🫢
Meanwhile LeBron ( in his 4th season) took the cavs to the finals with the other members of his starting 5 being, zyndrunas ilgauskas, Drew Gooden, Larry Hughes and Eric Snow.
He then returned to the finals in 2011 and stayed there for another 7 years in a row.
Different teams, GMs & Coaches but he kept coming back, meaning he is an unstoppable player.
Jordan never made it to the finals with a bad team, he was just lucky his GM and Coach helped building an unstoppable team around him.
Best analysis of the GOAT debate between these two legends that I have ever seen or heard. Loved the explanation of how you view "the best player" and "the greatest player" differently. And the usage of Chamberlain and Russell could not have been done better. First time watching your work. SUBSCRIBED.
if thats your first time then you're spoiled my friend. you found the best nba content there is period. just watch the videos
@@youngerudit2524 😵💫🥱🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
Lebron is by far the GOAT.. Jordan played for a long ass time.. 18 or 19 years. He only made all NBA 11 times Jordan spent half of his career losing year after year after year in the very first round And wasn’t even making the all NBA list until he got Scottie pippen this guy is literally bringing up “advanced stats” like PER boban marjonovic has the highest PER of all time those advanced stats are useless You could be efficient in 10 minutes and have super high advanced stats Real stats matter Like points per game, assists per game, blocks, rebounds All that random shit like PER and VORP are for nerdy analytics guys. Analytics ruin the nba lol. They use like fractions and try to determine the best player by advanced metrics that aren’t even real life. Boban has the best advanced stats that exist And teams don’t even want him. Jordan played till he was 39. Lebrons 38. Jordan entered the league at 20 Lebron entered at 18. In Jordan’s era zone defense wasn’t even allowed Everyone had to be “man covered” one on one. Zone defense is what ALL teams use today and is far superior, guys like lebron and Giannis could score 59 a game back then with man defense. Zone defense became allowed after shaq Because the rules Jordan played with made shaq too OP Shaquille O’Neal made the NBA allow a bunch of other forms of defense. Because nobody could one on one stop Shaquille O’Neal And they’ve stayed ever since. Dudes like lebron, Giannis and shaq would have even better numbers than they do if they played with the same rules as Jordan, and wilt and magic and all those guys. That’s something nobody talks about. You had to man check. Then shaq came and there was literally no way to stop him so they changed the rules. The NBA changes the rules FOR Jordan to make it easier for him. And they changed the rules for shaq to make it harder for him. That’s why I think shaq is a top 4 player all time. Lebron would’ve been the same way. Unstoppable, Lebron is better than Jordan by far and has better stats and is just overall greater he’s the goat
@@youngerudit2524 Yeah bro I like what he's putting down here. And I will stay tuned in. Thanks.
@@Bandofthehawk00 just no... if all ppl on the planet has to choose wich player u want to watch... 99% would watch jordan again instead of lebron... thats a fact and thats the reason why he is the goat... in 100 years, every man, child, woman on the planet will know michael jordan... for sure. the influence that he have is untouchable and he was the best basketball player by far... longevity doesnt beat killer instinct and influence!
This channel is without a doubt, the best basketball channel on UA-cam. Jimmy goes into such detail and has such convincing arguments that he could probably convince all of us that Brian Scalabrine is the GOAT. Keep up the good work and keep making the best basketball videos on UA-cam!
Edit: jeez people are getting so mad over me complimenting someone, like calm down.
Well, he's called the white mamba for a reason
Factual statement.
You should check out legend of winning too, he’s pretty informative on basketball
You've never watched thinking basketball then.
I don't really get why he doesn't have more subs, he definitely deserves more.
We done with the 90s 🤣🤣. I hope he makes a new vid on this trend.
He did and he said again mj is the goat
Never done with the 90s! 80s & 90s were TOUGH! I’ve seen most of the greats play live and I’ve never seen anyone better than MJ if you take everything in consideration! I don’t care if LBJ gets 10 rings, if I’m starting a team MJ is #1 period! And I’ll say again, you all should be ashamed for not mentioning Kobe
Remember when Kareem’s scoring record was looked at as unbreakable? Well the guy who broke it is having an All-NBA caliber season and still averaging 25/7/7 as a 39 year old in year 21… as a pass first player. Not to mention, he won a ring and Finals MVP at age 35 in year 17. He did this all as an underdog too, something Jordan never was considering his team and coach he had throughout his career. I’m pretty confident in my opinion on the best player of all time.
LeBron only won 1 finals (16 and god damn that was great to watch) as the underdog. And you can’t blame Jordan for not being the underdog because he won as the overdog hard to win as the underdog when you’re too good to be the underdog
I had no idea what a masterpiece was until I saw this video. So well produced and explained, I really appreciated every second of it. My kind regards.
Thank me later💪
ua-cam.com/video/1sDire3XJlU/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/tl3mR6eoEa8/v-deo.html
Far better video on the same topic
Facts
@@asyetundetermined thanks, I'll watch it
I gotta hand it to you, this was a very compelling video. You did a great job of making your case and staying objective. I'm impressed.
Great vid. MJ doesn’t get enough credit for having the skill to fit his game within a team concept, Bulls have 5 of the 15 most dominant seasons ever cuz of it and arguably team dominance is the most important metric to the extent you can control for variables like help and competition. Also MJs lead in steals is underrated I think. There’s a good 538 article on how important steals are.
I’m here because someone commented this video to me. I understand all convincing arguments but for me it will always be MJ the GOAT. He’s responsible for my love for basketball. As a kid I was convinced he was flying when he got in the mode for dunks. I really love to rewatch games from the amazing Bulls eras. Thinking about the personal issues that happened to MJ and his absence while training for baseball for 18 months but still coming back and winning 3 titles again - that’s GOAT material for me and lot of human respect from my side! So the answer is pretty clear for me - it also depends in which era you grew up or felt most invested in.
But yeah, LeBron is also a pleasure for the eyes! But I’m a Celtic, so it’s MJ for me - no questions asked.
For me, I will always be grateful to MJ and the Bulls to enflame my love for this amazing sport and end my national curse (you need to be a football/soccer fan). No! I was able to be myself and love a sport that not the majority of my country consumes.
Same take here
@@quentin8330 thank you, Quentin ✌️
It's your opinion. My opinion for the GOAT is LBJ....so meaning, there should be no argument of who's the GOAT in the NBA because the argument of who's the GOAT is SUBJECTIVE. . . .
@@ericjohnorenciada5062 that’s why I said “but FOR ME it will always be MJ”.
"The race to become the goat, has become a marathon." I agree
BAAARS
Tbf how do we hold it against lebron for being so good for so long? Like shouldnt that contribute majorly to whos more great. Not really fair to criticize someone for not retiring after 13 years and not having 6 rings. Like you want them to just give up?
@@calebreeve4397 No.. if so then Kareem is the GOAT.
He just needs to pass Kareem tbh
@@ferchango6359 Kareem averaged 14 ppg in his 19th season lebron is averaging 30….
This mans whole youtube channel is just pure perfection. The amount of work, time, thought put into these videos is unbelievable.
The Best One Can Ever Be Is In "THE DISCUSSION".... because... "THE DISCUSSION" will FOREVER BE!
Greatness isnt a stat. Thats the problem. Jordan made the entire planet watch the nba and this was pre internet, pre social media. He made the nba part of the global culture like nobody before him and it was because of his greatness. You only get to do that once.
I am not a huge basketball fan, it's crazy how this man makes me stare at the screen (without blinking) with nothing but a few charts and a couple of video highlights.
The production is great, don't get me wrong, but to pull me in like this... you're like a wizard, dude.
Your well constructed story telling and documentary-esque narration is out of this world.
Lol ok (without blinking)
@@MultiSneakerLover it was strangely worded. I will take the L
@@Tkokat don't worry about him, he's trying to gatekeep basketball lol. I also never cared about basketball, but Jimmy's videos and editing has me hookeddd
Hell of a video man, the research is always spot on
Can’t wait for another “sent into the shadow realm” video
Great vid best by far, but u left out a couple key elements such as how physical the NBA was in the 80/90s aswell as mentality of both guys.
Wow. Great video. You convinced me to at least give LeBron a second look! But if you asked me who I'd want on my team, I'd pick prime Michael for sure.
This was an absolute masterpiece Jxmy. Over the years I’ve had countless GOAT debates with my friends, and things tend to get heated which leads to a more emotion based debate. This video broke down the argument in such a concise and articulate way, and I couldn’t agree with you more.
You know Jimmy is good when his videos literally change the way people (including other UA-camrs) see basketball. Take your crown King Jimmy 👑
Jesus Christ is the truth reach out
My fault
nah we love the game. jimmy just researches wat we wont take the time too. he doesnt change the way i see the game he just spits facts.
Get Jimmy’s jimmy out of your jaw bro goddamn😹 nigga said “ king jimmy “😹
@@zjclipz8525 You a real 1 man✌️
Please do a video on which players in history are the statistically 'the most clutch'
This was an amazing video bro
Jimmy has a future in writing. This is one of my favorite videos on the channel as of late and probably the best goat debate video I’ve ever watched 👏🏻
Thank me later💪
ua-cam.com/video/1sDire3XJlU/v-deo.html
Too many assumptions. For example assuming the Bulls couldn't have won a 4th straight when he retired the first time after MJ finished those finals averaging 41ppg. Stick to the facts and not assuptions. You wanna see a great breakdown? Watch "Jordan vs Lebron, The Best GOAT Comparison". Strictly based on facts, not assumptions.
@@luisvergara6502 did you watch last dance ??
A future? Bro he's already doing it lol.
@@TheWancer Yes, what about it?
This was the best video I’ve seen ever. The work put into this is phenomenal and I really enjoyed every second of it.
I was genuinely sad when I looked down and saw there was only one minute left I wanted this to be a 40 min doc
@@KCJbomberFTW same
Bro that ending was so fire
This guy is one of the most unbiased NBA UA-camr ive ever seen.
😂
Jordan had an aura about him that screamed greatness.
Lebron needs to get reincarnated and do better than MJ to be the GOAT
I have no idea how you aren’t on a major sports network. Your work is so consistent and well put together.
Thats why he isn’t.
@@chickenwing43 😭 you're not wrong
Well for starters i doubt ESPN would hire a guy to do 15 minutes of goat debate. I doubt they'd hire a guy to do 15 SECONDS of goat debate. Just yell out lebron's the goat for 30 seconds then go to commercial
@@212mochaman bro every day they dedicate 5 to 10 mins debating the goat. what espn are you watching???
@@theconman5540 I'm not. Lesson learnt
This is a very accurate in OnPoint video I would agree that that you have made very valid points in this video and yes this is better than what ESPN has as far as the debate
Being almost as good as Michael Jordan for 20 years still doesn't make you better than Michael Jordan. IDC if James averages 25/7/7 from now till he's 50. There's never been a version of him; not at 19, not at 26, and not at 38 that has ever been as dominant, intimidating, or unbeatable as MJ was during his peak years with the Bulls. You don't get to be the GOAT when no one has ever been afraid to play you.
toronto raptors😅
let’s just appreciate how much time jimmy takes to make these entertaining videos for us💯
Jesus Christ is the truth reach out
Like begger
@Wow 🅥 Jesus Christ is the truth reach out
@@ElegyVio fake sky man 😭
bot
The best take on this debate I’ve seen. Absolutely crushing every single point. Thank you Jimmy!!!!!!!
Two years later, LeBron hasn't stopped putting up all NBA numbers
Hasn’t stopped losing either lol
Something to consider, while stats are one thing, it is measured against a changing skillset. If you look at any sport there seems to be a progression to it where each generation is typically better than the last because they build on the knowledge of previous generations. i think skateboarding is a good and clear example of this. the field that Labron plays against is more skilled than those of MJ's. I feel like this is another really good argument for just how impressive Labron is.
i suppose you could argue it's a mature enough sport this isnt the case here, or that the teams are getting less skilled due to other forces, but it's hard to know when you cant face an old team against a new one.
I'm sure people have made this argument before, but it occurred to me while watching, i dont keep up with this stuff.... just down a rabbit hole atm.
This is without a shadow of a doubt the GOAT video on UA-cam made on the nba goat debate! Take a bow brother, you couldn’t have made a better video!
"When does the longevity of Lebron's brilliance simply outmatch the slightly greater, but much shorter brilliance, of Michael?"
The perfect way to sum it all up, amazing vid as always jxmy
Never!
🙄
@@karlhungus2590 stop lyin to ya self😁
Slightly better . You must not check Mj stats
It can't unfortunately. He's loss too much
There’s no debate. The only ones debating are the ones that have no idea.
100% agree, only true fans understand that MJ is the GOAT.
So did either of you actually watch the video or nah?
@@rocklemillion8041 Bro i'm trolling out here I could not give less of a fuck who anyone think the GOAT of anything is.
At this point LeBron and MJ are in different GOAT categories that can no longer be compared. Their goat worthy achievements are so divergent from eachother its pointless to argue them against eachother
The question that fans should be asking is "Why is MJ the barometer for greatness?". This is a question that is rarely asked and should be explored more deeply, it goes waaaaayyyyy beyond the stats and accolades.
Yep. This is a good video about this ua-cam.com/video/tl3mR6eoEa8/v-deo.html
theres a reason hes called black jesus, because he was like a demigod, i want ja morant to be that mythical as well but noone every exceeds mj, and he wasnt even trying to beat records by padding.
I think it’s because he was the first player who reached that magnitude. The new guy will be compared to the older guy.
But I get what you’re saying because the conversation is “how can LeBron reach MJ in [insert career accolade in here].”
MJ has the aura of a winner, he's got the kind of personality that only the likes of Maradona have. The kind of rare people that will never lose a final if they are put in that position they will make sure they win.
Leadership
Something interesting to note about longevity is: Lebron was the same age as mj when they won their last championships
Except lebron didn’t retire for 3 years and came into the nba way earlier so he played way more minutes lmao
Ugh. It's not ur fault @Vinsent Keefer. But I can already see where this is going
@@yahiakamel2747 not Lebron’s fault that he didn’t have a gambling addiction
@@yahiakamel2747 and how is that relevant to what he said?
Is your Russ picture ironic?
If there were 7 billion Jordan fans in the world, I would be one of them.
If there were 100 million Jordan fans in the world, I would be one of them.
If there were 10 million Jordan fans in the world, I would still be one of them.
If there were a hundred Jordan fans in the world, I would still be one of them.
If there was one Jordan fan in the world, that person would probably be me.
If there isn't a single Jordan fan in the world, then I'm not in the world.
Wanna be considered the GOAT? Become the best, win titles, go and play another sport for a few years and be good at it. Come back and win a few more titles whilst being objectively the best.
Jordan GOAT with the stress on the AT. Great video by the way, very interesting take on the debate.
Jordan was ass at baseball??
Would love to see a statistic approach with differences between their respective eras of playing. How difficult (by effort and technique) it was to be able to score each game with the defensive skilled opponents of their time. What could the stats say when you switch their eras?
Era doesn’t matter, better is better
I beleieve they won’t do it since it will clearly tell that MJ is superior in many ways. A content, like this, will make it boring.
The end of bench guy of the modern era would be a superstar in the Jordan era. The players are way way way way better now.
imagine this? Jordan stats started from 18 years old like lebrons? then didnt retire for 2 years and then didnt retire for a further 3 years he would have 8 more years added onto his carreer plus he lost a season due to injuries but he got injuried. so adding 8 more prime years to jordan and he would have won more championships more mvps more scoring titles. lebron would have nothing on him at all by 37 years old 19 years into his career. plus jordan played for the love of winning and lebrons is playing for all achievements and to be the goat and plays the most minutes in garbage time then any other player in history just because he wants to play against the worse players to get his stats up. comparing jordan with lebrons is like comparing traditional made spaghetti to tin spaghetti no comparision.
@@davo23452345 we can keep imaging fact of the matter is Jordan career is already over no point in contemplating what if
Love how you can breakdown the nuances of the conversation in a simple manner, and even give relevant examples.
It’s very simple. Jordan was more clutch and a better scorer Lebron is a better at everything else and makes his teams better
A few additional things. When Jordan retired the first time the bulls still won 50 plus games without him and almost made the finals except for one bad call vs the Knicks
Meantime when Lebron left the cavs twice they went from 60 wins to 19 after he left. So he was Personally responsible for 40 more wins. Thts insane
Lebrons legacy is hurt with the spurs and mavs loss in the finals however the warrior team that won 70 games and Lebron beat is by far a much better team than any teams Jordan faced in the finals
In conclusion. For one game. U take Jordan. For a season u take Lebron and if u think Kobe is on the level of these two guys u should be banned from ever talking about basketball
The "accolades" of dpoy etc. Is a shit argument because those are popularity contests and LeBron has been snubbed on numerous occasions in order to protect Jordan's legacy its glaringly obvious 🤦♂️🤷♂️
@@pepironi992 I agree, Lebron played against the 2 best teams in NBA history... Spurs and Warriors, If Jordan faced a team even half as good as those two, his career wouldve been extremely diferent.
@@IHateStroads jordan wouldve won it a 6th and 7th time in 92 and 93 he led the league in scoring and steals but the media didn't want him to get it either so that point is gone
This video lacks nuance and context. U can't talk about who's the best when they played in different eras. Least U can do is compare their eras and the competition they faced to win rings. Lebron has clearly played in the most skilled era and faced some of the greatest NBA dynasties ever assembled. MJ won 10 scoring title in his era, scoring more than 30 ppg in his prime. Lebron has only 1, maybe 2 this season. That's how Jxmy presented his stats in this video. But it's apple to oranges: Would MJ win 10 scoring titles in an era with Harden, KD, Kobe, Steph ??? Would MJ win has many rings in an era with Kobe & Shaq? Spurs Dynasty? Warriors Dynasty ? Big 3 Celtics ? MJ had similar Dynasties when he came to the league but couldn't beat them: Bird's Celtics or Magic's Lakers until they got old. Also Jxmy shows a graphs of their stats where MJ has 15 seasons and Lebron 18 seasons, completely irrelevant and pointless since Lebron has played more season...? All this to bring longevity? Lebron will be the all time scoring leader in less seasons and less games AND less figure attempts than Kareem. This is the context you need to bring when u do comparisons. Otherwise u resume everything to numbers and it's meaningless; u can make ur first NBA finals win and retire with the best numbers to have the greatest numbers ever. Compare the players era, their talent, their competition AND the stats.
2 years later…..Lebron still isn’t the goat
You got me in the first minute. Most NBA players DO NOT peak in their mid 20's. False statement to make the subject matter seem more amazing.
THE BEST video I have ever watched concerning the GOAT debate. You cover every important aspect while remaining unbiased and accurate. Simply just amazing.
He ignored several important aspects.
This is the best Goat debate video where actual research was done
Jordan vs Lebron - The Best GOAT Comparison
ua-cam.com/video/tl3mR6eoEa8/v-deo.html
DANGERProductions
this is the best i've seen ua-cam.com/video/tl3mR6eoEa8/v-deo.html
Unbiased haha stop bro
I feel cause Micheal Jordan has Jordan brand people see him as more of a goat subconsciously
@@brandonyo5718 No, if you were around when he played you would realise he's the GOAT. The only one's who consider the failure that is Lebron James the GOAT are people who never existed when Jordan played. How a player who has only won 4 championships in 19 seasons can be considered even top 5 is hilarious
This video is one of the most beautiful things I’ve ever seen. The production value, the script, the editing, the content and argument itself is incredible. No debate that Jxmy is the GOAT of basketball youtube
Excellent video. But when discussing Lebron's longevity, shouldn't we discuss the advancements in sports medicine over the years? On a different subject, would love to see you do a similar video on CR7 vs. Messi.
The title conversation also tells us relatively little about winning overall. The Lakers won the same number of titles as the Spurs during Kobe's years, but were sometimes awful while the Spurs made the playoffs 23 years in a row. The fact that we only talk about titles seriously downplays the excellence of guys like Duncan who were superb winners year after year. Jordan's 6 rings are insane, of course, but let's not forget that Lebron was a conference champion almost a decade in a row and then won another title with LA. Saying "Jordan never lost in the finals" is serious spin, making it sound like getting to the finals = losing when it means the exact opposite. Lebron compares just fine to Jordan's record, which for all its greatness had losing seasons before and after the dynasty years.
Why not talk about how Jordan had 5 60 win seasons in the 90’s compared to LeBrons 3 in 20+ yrs
How about the fact that Jordan has a higher regular season win percentage. The problem your facing is that Jordan had 11 full seasons in Chicago and won 6 chips. That includes his rookie year which as the 3rd pick you can’t blame him (nor LeBron as the 1st pick) for not winning it
I love your detailed analysis of the goat debate! This is statistically the best I have seen/heard! Great job!
Very true. So many people take a super casual approach and just nitpick stuff to back up their guy. This was a very objective breakdown.
He left out so many factors. Quality of opponents. Health of teammates and opponents, coaching. This was avg at best
@@jsgr5382 then you do better
@@gaoshanr If I knew how to make videos I would make a better video. Still waiting for a video that talks about MJ teammates health vs lebrons teammates health. MJ coaching vs lebrons coaching. The fact the Knicks (and Pacers) were so overated and basically the only challenge in the east and people talk about LeBrons east but mjs was worse. The fact MJ played in a man to man , no zone , illegal defence era which anyone who knows basketball is much much easier to score and suited MJ talents as a slasher. The fact MJ's era avg the most free throws ever and you couldn't breathe on MJ. LeBron gets the Shaq treatment cause he's too strong. He didn't mention the many other analytics categories that lebron leads over mj. Took only the basic ones that favour MJ. The fact the 90's era the bulls dominated cane after 2 expansion eras with all the super teams gone. LeBron went through super teamadter super team, literally one after another. In their prime. The fact MJ never guards the best players , isn't responsible for playmaking or rebounding. All he had to was score.
Then there's the off the court stuff. MJ is a degenerate bum. LeBron is annoying but a saint compared to MJ. Just a far better human being. Things that should be mentioned. He left out all that and more and I didn't stop while typing this to even think. I'll bet I could think of many more things. This was biased cause he knows most of his audience or sheep like jordanites and he'll get clicks and praise
@williamgibson If you liked this one you should definitely look up LeBron Vs Jordan The GOAT debate Trust me that video is almost at 15 million view and is the best comparison anyone has ever seen. Funny story it's the only video on that channel lol
Hands down the best interpretation of the goat debate I’ve ever seen. You sir deserve to be a full time journalist covering whatever sport you choose. Kudos.
He's great doing this. Fk journalism
lol makes bank from these videos. what makes him not journalist at this point? lmao
Lol he's making 5x what he would make doing journalism
This video was fucking trash!! It added nothing to the overall debate/discussion. It was JUST as bad as the ESPN and Undisputed takes, everybody do yourself a favor and check out uncut hoops video ua-cam.com/video/UwmAEKDhGsk/v-deo.html
Forgot to mention the difference in level of competition and athleticism that Lebron plays against vs MJ played against in the past
best goat debate video ive ever seen
Man you are so good at this Jxmy, Top 5 talent on UA-cam hands down
same for you youre the goat of posting highlights
🐐 🤝 🐐
Game recognize game. Goat x Goat shit right here.
🐐🤝🐐
Top 5 is an exaggeration
Man this is a really in-depth analysis on this debate. Never thought about the “longevity” side of things
Really? You never thought about that? That is a key factor in why Lebron is the goat in my opinion. He is the greatest pure basketball player of all time. Yes Jordan could score better, but that’s one piece of being a basketball player.
Bruh how
Bruh what
@@ZroBangerz what about defense though, you have to take that into account as well
@@Thomson07 lebron isnt bad on defense, if he wanted to he prolly could of got a couple of dpoys but towards the end of the miami stint he got lazy on d. jordan didnt have to guard the best player on the opposing team for all 6 of his rings lebron is normally always guarding the best opposing player. another argument for the defensive side of basketball is that the players are just getting better and harder to guard, theres not many people that find new ways to defend people but theres always new offensive moves and ways to look at offense popping up
boy oh boy where do I even begin my glorious King LeBron my Pooky bear my heart has been captivated by your greatness since the very first
Glimpse your commanding presence on the court striking fear in the eyes of opponents with your fluid movements impeccable finess around the rim and that breathtaking jump shot it's like witnessing Art In
Motion I would move Heaven and Earth to ensure time never brings about your retirement despite facing challenges in your upbringing your unwavering determination and resilience have alwaysshown through beyond the confines of the Court you epitomize dedication as a loving husband and father embodying the essence of paternal care
effortlessly the mere thought of your eventual departure evokes a whirlwind of emotions I'd willingly sacrifice anything to see the Brilliance of Your Smile you've gifted me boundless joy and on occasion heartache each moment etched deeply in mysoul I vividly recall the emotional role R coaster when you left Cleveland a piece of my heart fractured yet tears of sheer Joy flowed witnessing your triumphant moments especially that Unforgettable Championship victory in Miami a testament to your undeniable greatness as my illustrious King your return to Cleveland was a celebration of loyalty and dedication a testament to your unwavering commitment the challenges of 2015 were eclipsed by the historic Triumph of 2016 a testament to your unyielding Spirit the tears that flowed when you exclaimed Cleveland this is for you resonated with a world forever changed by your remarkable talent and let's not forget your incredible achievement with the Los Angeles Lakers in 2020 solidifying your legacy as one of the greatest to ever grace the game As Time Marches forward your legacy only grows stronger solidifying your status as the ultimate goat my cherished goat my glorious King LeBron
The fact it’s even a debate against the Bron Star, means Jordan is the true sun. Jordan came back from baseball, he was already goat.
Not without pippen
@@ChristianETagliabue..🤡
LeBron’s greatness is unquestionable. Having the privilege of watching Micheal Jordan growing up as well as LeBron more recently, there is an intangible difference between them. If Jordan’s competitors didn’t play to his level of intensity on any given night, their chances of winning were slim. His competitiveness and intensity demanded that not only his opponents, but also his teammates elevate their level of play or else it was his game. The outcome of the game would be determined by him. Nobody has ever been able to match that. Kobe was close and Lebron dominates in a different way. Again, it’s an intangible thing. Advanced metrics, data sets or statistics can’t quantify it.
Yeah he had that special aura. It's hard to quantify and I'm a big science and numbers guy. But there was something about him. You just couldn't bet against him.
I think that also contributed to his almost mythical status. We as humans love the supernatural, the non explainable, the mysterious and mythical.
Jordan somehow encapsulates all of that. Kobe was the only one who came close to that since then but he had too many human flaws and also as a player.
But since Kobe did came close to it his death felt so surreal. Because he also appeared larger than life.
LeBron is special but he just doesn't have that aura. He always looks and feels beatable somehow.
Part of what makes MJ the goat in my eyes was his character. People want to compare stats, attributes, athletic ability and championships. No one ever compares their character. Lebron self-proclaiming himself as the goat ends the debate real quick for me, personally.
Lebron the goat IMO Bc he can last so long and can still be a top 10-5 player
@@iliketurtles7782 MJ was top 10 in scoring and won 32 of the 60 games he played in when he was 38/39. He had kwame Brown and Ty Lue to work with that season. A much younger Kobe proved that's not an easy task. LeBron was 36/37 this season. MJ was also trending upward after starting slow from not playing professionally and entering the MVP race before getting hurt. After the slow start, he was averaging almost 30 before getting hurt. He was 9th in the league in scoring and climbing. His first year in Washington is overlooked because he started slow and got injured and he fell off the next year when he was 40. But for those 60 games he took a bad team to a winning record. So despite what Jimmy has no evidence for, there's actual proof he would've won on a bad team. Considering he actually did it... 2 years older than LeBron was this season at that.
@Zoo Keeper you don’t even think he’s top 10…
Looking forward to 5 years from now when you do a 10 year anniversary of your first (goat) video. You could just make it an every 5 year discussion. Maybe someone else will be on the radar in 5. Either way, great video as always
U never know if giannis jokic or Joel will be in the discussion in 5-10 years
@@iliketurtles7782 Joel won’t be
@@StarsThen I said u never know
@@iliketurtles7782 but we kinda do
@@StarsThen why not? He's way more skilled unlike that fraud giannisattackyouranklessothaticanwinaneasyring.
One day we’ll let this debate go. One day.🤦🏾
I honestly, kindheartedly hope we will never do. What would be the fun in life then
Not a big basketball fan but I do love videos like this. Who does the “eye test” favor ?
Mike
That was without a doubt one of the best basketball short films I've ever seen. Yes, films. This is the best take on a nuanced Goat debate that I've ever seen. Congrats, and thank you for this humble offering for basketball heads around the world.
Imo this video ua-cam.com/video/UwmAEKDhGsk/v-deo.html is overall better and more in depth, it's worth checking out.
completely agree. a masterpiece
@@brandonbuller2471 naw mate that video was trash and added NOTHIN to the discussion. Go check out Uncut Hoops video, now that's a in-depth and a must watch tbh.
@@CreamPieSundays bruh just give it up bro
@@TheNegationist naw I can't mate, people need a real in-depth video. The maker shit on ESPN while giving the SAME EXACT talking points. At least UnCut hoops gives you a REAL IN-DEPTH video, this shit was under garbage.
I cannot get over how good your videos are. It's so consistent, I know that every single moment I spend watching your videos is a well spent one. I love the fact-based videos, stats are truly king.
One thing! Just one thing! Please tell IT to me: WHY tf do I have so many fans even though no UA-camr is unprettier than I am? WORLDWIDE!!!! WHY??? Tell me, dear matt
Couldn't of said it better. I truly enjoy these videos.
It’s not a debate at all. Lebron is nowhere near that level. He’s just a smaller and weaker version of Giannis. He doesn’t have any skill and he is more known for losing than winning.
The best video I have ever seen in youtube 😊