Very valid points and well supported. But let's just say that depositing into CPF and investing in Globally diversified ETFs are not mutually exclusive, you could do both as a diversification, albeit lower expected returns. Life is not about min-max-ing every strategy. But most people forgot the emotional factor of investing. Not everyone will have a strong risk appetite in holding through tough times like this. Not trying to convert anyone to believe CPF here and I think if you are comfortable to all-in investing at young age then please go for it. Different strokes for different folks and there are many ways to get to Rome. TLDR: Just do what you like lah, but do understand that just because people have different opinions, doesn't mean anyone is wrong. Be willing to accept opposing viewpoints and have a broader mindset.
Not right and wrong. It about portfolio management. Management both risk and returns. Kelvin is using time and dca to management the stock portfolio while Chris is reducing taxes and also use cpf as safety net to reduce his emotion of market volatility of his investment portfolio. Personally I also use cpf as a safety net also top up to reduce income tax. While I investing and trading stock at the same time. With allocation of 55% investing and 45% trading, cash and cash equivalent
Any logical person will choose investing over putting into CPF. DCA over long term surely beats cpf interests. And no use having 192k in CPF SA when they can't be used to buy anything at all. Say you find a property worth investing or you need a huge sum of money due to medical, having 192k in CPF SA is completely useless. At least investments can be liquidated.
Also be aware of forex risk for those ETFs which are denominated in USD. Some say S27, But super illiquid and elephant bid-ask. I also vested VWRA for long term. Imo, best diversified ETF to hold LT
Good points and rationalisation But value or magic of CPF can only be realised when one turns 55, and oh boy its sheer magic of compounding.... Once we turn 55, we can withdraw everything in SA & OA (in that order) after keeping aside the required FRS in RA. Instead of withdrawing to invest, you can also choose to leave it their to earn interest. CPF is really one of the 'safest tool' available amidst others riskier ones. Its always good to play-around/optimise/exploit the usage of different tools depending on one's risk appetite. Also, money in cpf is shielded to our emotional outbursts...🙂
Hi, If I'm 65 now in 2022 and my OA has 100K , MA has 63K , RA has 200K. And I chose the Basic Plan to draw down my RA. Will that 100K in my CPF OA still earn that 2.5% interest every year after 2022 ? Yes/No
All returns cannot beat inflation. What the use of one million $ in the bank when monthly payout is restricted to two thousand. Currencies have danger of collapse to Zero. Good money chasing bad money. When measure in decades this modern world is highly risky.
Alternatively he may have hit 1m in equities at age 39 and a black swan event will wipe off 30% of his portfolio at age 40 when he is about to encash. And if this happens then what’s next? That’s the risk we are talking abt.
Even if his plans to hit 1M by 40 didn’t materialized due to black swan events and etc, he will still be only 40 and have a long horizon more to wait for equities to go up again compared to CPF payout timeline.
I though Kelvin is going to say not to top-up CPF SA because the $ that is used to top up SA is reserved and cannot be shielded. That's one of the pain points of RSTU SA. Which is why I am considering what Chis (HoneyMoneySG) is saying regarding OA to SA transfer instead; where by these funds won't be reserved and can be shielded. Also considering HDB OA refund so that the $ goes directly to OA instead of voluntary contribution to 3 accounts. Then subsequently OA to SA transfer.
Is the ishares Core S&P 500 UCITS ETF same as the Lion Global Infinity U.S 500 Stock Index Fund? If not, what is the difference between them? So do you sell them a few years later for capital gains?
Hi kelvin saw your interview with boon tee can you do an updated vid on covered calls and things you look out for ensure a highet chance of success in the trade?
Are you still invest using Option Wheel, how is the lesson learned so far. As market has been down since Jan 2022, did you roll or just get yourself assigned and sell Call at lower Delta.
Hi Kelvin, any reason for recommending SWDA (traded in GBP) and not the equivalent IWDA (in USD) when both ETFs tracks the same index and IWDA seems more liquid based on its larger trading volume? Thanks.
hi kelvin, can you also comment whether self-employed or business owners need to pay income tax? i think cpf contribution is mostly relevant to employees as this is about lowering taxation on income tax (which primarily calculates from income earned)...i think SEP and biz owners don't have this, they just need to contribute to medisave if income is above $6000, this i think a portion also goes to medisave for employees.
Hi Kelvin, how would you compare putting money in CPF vs fixed deposit if you are a 65yo person who is still working? How does the flexibility works when it comes to withdrawing the money?
How gov able to generate this kind of interest? How is it affecting us? Definitely not magic. And are you sure you can get your money back? It’s a one way valve.
Returns generated by GIC. So far they are doing well. Failure to get back money means that the government isnt doing well, which everyone wants to avoid
Hmm, I am quite sure I had also raised similar points you presented some time back. 😀 "Topping up" CPF is one of the worst things ever to do. The idea seems to have come about only very recently, within the last couple of years. Now, if it's so good, why was this idea not suggested many years (decades) ago? The answer is obvious if only we think deeper -- the SG government likely realised many will have a difficult time retiring next time. By so called "topping up your CPF" as early as possible (in your 20s or even ridiculously asking your parents to do so when you are younger!) the government try as much as possible to avoid a tricky and difficult case of people complaining life is tough. But actually, it has already become very tough, just that you experience it in smaller bits earlier instead of one BIG BLAST at an older age. If you are relatively young, say in your 20's, don't be too happy that "WOW, I am saving up and earning good interests for the money in my CPF". All or much of that money, either from your working or artificially topping it up yourself, will be wiped out when you purchase a flat lease from HDB next time! The longer you wait, the worse off you will be. The SG government has allowed flat lease prices to balloon to unaffordable levels. Well, they always claim flat leases are always affordable. Of course, provided you store up more cash in your CPF to be wiped out later, or made poorer for a longer time by taking bigger housing loans. All this topping up of your CPF is to ensure you have as much money as possible to be wiped out when you buy that ultra expensive HDB flat lease! Sure, other than (1) wiping out most of your CPF money, you can (2) touch as little as possible the money inside your CPF. But are you willing to be more cash poor by having to fork out more liquidity and getting into longer, bigger debts? Both (1) and (2) are bad but which is worse? You decide. CPF originally started out with the right objective to help people retire comfortable in Singapore. But that has become a big problem ever since the government allowed public housing prices to painfully and exponentially increase as a profiteering exercise on their part. Think about it: If you and your employer have already contributed to your CPF every month for years, isn't that enough? Why should there be a need to additionally top up your CPF? If it's so good, why was this not widely practised 20 years ago when a 5-room HDB flat cost say $200k to lease, versus $800+k (read the recent report!!!) to lease a new 5-room BTO flat? Why should you even need to top up for your kids' or parents' CPF? This is a clear sign the CPF system is breaking, It no longer serves its original purpose properly. I don't know who "Mr Loo" is or if he is working for the government But to claim that one can retire well through putting money in to CPF, that is just propagating the problem that the government has started. (BTW, I think his 1M65 is misleading. 😅)
1M40 or 1M50, investing in a market with extreme volatility may hinder your retirement. You have 1M at 35 but may not be at 40. We should have heard story about people from penny to millionaire, but also stories from millionaire to bankrupt. The higher the risk, the higher the risk. Depends on individual risk appetite. CPF, agree with you that policy will change, for good or worst, depending on the economic situation. If investing in the market has risk, CPF will also have risk. How does the government payout to us if the economy is not good, which likely the same as the market? Anyway, good videos with most point taken.
Don’t bother with that loo dinosaur. Too conservative and suitable only for certain demographics. For the younger crowd with strong earnings, his methods will slow down FIRE.
Very valid points and well supported.
But let's just say that depositing into CPF and investing in Globally diversified ETFs are not mutually exclusive, you could do both as a diversification, albeit lower expected returns. Life is not about min-max-ing every strategy.
But most people forgot the emotional factor of investing. Not everyone will have a strong risk appetite in holding through tough times like this.
Not trying to convert anyone to believe CPF here and I think if you are comfortable to all-in investing at young age then please go for it. Different strokes for different folks and there are many ways to get to Rome.
TLDR: Just do what you like lah, but do understand that just because people have different opinions, doesn't mean anyone is wrong. Be willing to accept opposing viewpoints and have a broader mindset.
Very good points! I think CNA should interview you!
Not right and wrong. It about portfolio management. Management both risk and returns.
Kelvin is using time and dca to management the stock portfolio while Chris is reducing taxes and also use cpf as safety net to reduce his emotion of market volatility of his investment portfolio.
Personally I also use cpf as a safety net also top up to reduce income tax. While I investing and trading stock at the same time. With allocation of 55% investing and 45% trading, cash and cash equivalent
@@ustradingdiary Does it meant Chris is more emotional than Kelvin? Winkwink
@@KelvinLearnsInvesting he already appeared in CnA podcast and got snowflaked lol
Any logical person will choose investing over putting into CPF. DCA over long term surely beats cpf interests. And no use having 192k in CPF SA when they can't be used to buy anything at all. Say you find a property worth investing or you need a huge sum of money due to medical, having 192k in CPF SA is completely useless. At least investments can be liquidated.
Risk : there's a lot you haven't considered & will not. That's why the base has to be CPF first. If you don't have the roots, how to grow the tree.
Just top up 8k yearly to SA and pump the rest to stocks via DCA lor….best of both worlds…..can stop topping up SA once it is max.
I do a hybrid. Hopefully a 50-30-20 ratio in property, equities and cpf eventually
Also be aware of forex risk for those ETFs which are denominated in USD. Some say S27, But super illiquid and elephant bid-ask. I also vested VWRA for long term. Imo, best diversified ETF to hold LT
Good points and rationalisation
But value or magic of CPF can only be realised when one turns 55, and oh boy its sheer magic of compounding....
Once we turn 55, we can withdraw everything in SA & OA (in that order) after keeping aside the required FRS in RA. Instead of withdrawing to invest, you can also choose to leave it their to earn interest.
CPF is really one of the 'safest tool' available amidst others riskier ones. Its always good to play-around/optimise/exploit the usage of different tools depending on one's risk appetite.
Also, money in cpf is shielded to our emotional outbursts...🙂
Hi,
If I'm 65 now in 2022 and my OA has 100K , MA has 63K , RA has 200K. And I chose the Basic Plan to draw down my RA.
Will that 100K in my CPF OA still earn that 2.5% interest every year after 2022 ? Yes/No
All returns cannot beat inflation.
What the use of one million $ in the bank when monthly payout is restricted to two thousand. Currencies have danger of collapse to Zero. Good money chasing bad money. When measure in decades this modern world is highly risky.
The returns mentioned in the broad based ETFs are in long term and it could be easily more than 10yrs. This might affect ur plan to hit 1M by 40 too.
Alternatively he may have hit 1m in equities at age 39 and a black swan event will wipe off 30% of his portfolio at age 40 when he is about to encash. And if this happens then what’s next?
That’s the risk we are talking abt.
Even if his plans to hit 1M by 40 didn’t materialized due to black swan events and etc, he will still be only 40 and have a long horizon more to wait for equities to go up again compared to CPF payout timeline.
@@jessicayuklenglow3892 that’s true. Then we can say 计划赶不上变化！
Non related question
Is the shirt you wearing is uniqlo?
I though Kelvin is going to say not to top-up CPF SA because the $ that is used to top up SA is reserved and cannot be shielded. That's one of the pain points of RSTU SA. Which is why I am considering what Chis (HoneyMoneySG) is saying regarding OA to SA transfer instead; where by these funds won't be reserved and can be shielded. Also considering HDB OA refund so that the $ goes directly to OA instead of voluntary contribution to 3 accounts. Then subsequently OA to SA transfer.
Hi Kelvin, can you do a video on advising us what to do if we are already maxed our SA? Any other way to still get tax relief?
Do SRS top-up. $15,300 max per year tax relief. Make sure you invest the SRS $ also and don't leave it in there like a lazy bum bum.
Do vc topup for your parents/spouse
Is the ishares Core S&P 500 UCITS ETF same as the Lion Global Infinity U.S 500 Stock Index Fund? If not, what is the difference between them? So do you sell them a few years later for capital gains?
Hi kelvin saw your interview with boon tee can you do an updated vid on covered calls and things you look out for ensure a highet chance of success in the trade?
Are you still invest using Option Wheel, how is the lesson learned so far. As market has been down since Jan 2022, did you roll or just get yourself assigned and sell Call at lower Delta.
Which brokerage account do you use to buy the etfs?
Well said. not good to depend on CPF to keep our $ for retirement coz policy changes.
How about for self-employed individuals? Should they max out their CPF?
Why must touch the cpf $ ? Cpf is meant for retirement. I really don’t understand people always want to think of using the money there.
Touching cpf lets me invest more cash, so i can retire earlier
True, maybe they use our cpf invest in ETFs also lol
Hahaha so true
Cpf is invested in global diversified funds
So basicly samething.
Thank you for sharing
Can you do a review of Infinity U.S. 500 Stock Index fund? I believe this is where mr 1m65 invest part of his cpf also.
When u r able to take out your cpf you will realize then who juices who liao.
Hi Kelvin, any reason for recommending SWDA (traded in GBP) and not the equivalent IWDA (in USD) when both ETFs tracks the same index and IWDA seems more liquid based on its larger trading volume? Thanks.
Withholding tax for US stocks
can you recommend the platform that you use to invest in cspx?
Use ibkr
@@KelvinLearnsInvesting are you able to have a guide on the charges as I believed IBKR’s charges is pretty steep as compared to other platforms.
hi kelvin, can you also comment whether self-employed or business owners need to pay income tax? i think cpf contribution is mostly relevant to employees as this is about lowering taxation on income tax (which primarily calculates from income earned)...i think SEP and biz owners don't have this, they just need to contribute to medisave if income is above $6000, this i think a portion also goes to medisave for employees.
Can top up cpf to reduce income tax for self employ.
Bro of course self employed need to pay income tax.. You think government so nice to you ah
For self employed, $37,740 + $8000 tax relief for topping up CPF. And another $15300 tax relief to top up SRS
Yeah, not topping up... because policy changes are uncertain. I rather depend on myself.
Hi Kelvin, how would you compare putting money in CPF vs fixed deposit if you are a 65yo person who is still working?
How does the flexibility works when it comes to withdrawing the money?
Instead of put in FD, buy ssb. You can withdraw with only SGD 2 charge
If CPF rate needs to be decrease, then chances your ETFs would have collapsed.
Kevin can invest in coe? Cos now to the moooooooo
Kelvin, do u mean 1M in cash or 1M include CPF & SRS? Anyway, good target.
In cash, I’m treating as though cpf doesn’t exist
Good plan
How gov able to generate this kind of interest? How is it affecting us? Definitely not magic. And are you sure you can get your money back? It’s a one way valve.
Returns generated by GIC. So far they are doing well. Failure to get back money means that the government isnt doing well, which everyone wants to avoid
Noooooooo,,,,,,We top up CPF ! I suppose everyone case is different !
25 million by 18 years old lah
Hi Kelvin, I received an email from you but it looks fake as I do not think you can guess my email address from here, or can you?
Definitely not from me! Dont reply that guy
Safe is not safe
Kelvin burning boomers be like "if you're an old ah pek in your 50s.."
I'm also an old ah pek in my 30s :(
Hmm, I am quite sure I had also raised similar points you presented some time back. 😀
"Topping up" CPF is one of the worst things ever to do. The idea seems to have come about only very recently, within the last couple of years.
Now, if it's so good, why was this idea not suggested many years (decades) ago?
The answer is obvious if only we think deeper -- the SG government likely realised many will have a difficult time retiring next time. By so called "topping up your CPF" as early as possible (in your 20s or even ridiculously asking your parents to do so when you are younger!) the government try as much as possible to avoid a tricky and difficult case of people complaining life is tough. But actually, it has already become very tough, just that you experience it in smaller bits earlier instead of one BIG BLAST at an older age.
If you are relatively young, say in your 20's, don't be too happy that "WOW, I am saving up and earning good interests for the money in my CPF". All or much of that money, either from your working or artificially topping it up yourself, will be wiped out when you purchase a flat lease from HDB next time! The longer you wait, the worse off you will be.
The SG government has allowed flat lease prices to balloon to unaffordable levels. Well, they always claim flat leases are always affordable. Of course, provided you store up more cash in your CPF to be wiped out later, or made poorer for a longer time by taking bigger housing loans.
All this topping up of your CPF is to ensure you have as much money as possible to be wiped out when you buy that ultra expensive HDB flat lease!
Sure, other than (1) wiping out most of your CPF money, you can (2) touch as little as possible the money inside your CPF. But are you willing to be more cash poor by having to fork out more liquidity and getting into longer, bigger debts? Both (1) and (2) are bad but which is worse? You decide.
CPF originally started out with the right objective to help people retire comfortable in Singapore. But that has become a big problem ever since the government allowed public housing prices to painfully and exponentially increase as a profiteering exercise on their part.
Think about it: If you and your employer have already contributed to your CPF every month for years, isn't that enough? Why should there be a need to additionally top up your CPF? If it's so good, why was this not widely practised 20 years ago when a 5-room HDB flat cost say $200k to lease, versus $800+k (read the recent report!!!) to lease a new 5-room BTO flat?
Why should you even need to top up for your kids' or parents' CPF? This is a clear sign the CPF system is breaking, It no longer serves its original purpose properly.
I don't know who "Mr Loo" is or if he is working for the government But to claim that one can retire well through putting money in to CPF, that is just propagating the problem that the government has started. (BTW, I think his 1M65 is misleading. 😅)
cpf is not risk free ..
1M40 or 1M50, investing in a market with extreme volatility may hinder your retirement. You have 1M at 35 but may not be at 40. We should have heard story about people from penny to millionaire, but also stories from millionaire to bankrupt. The higher the risk, the higher the risk. Depends on individual risk appetite.
CPF, agree with you that policy will change, for good or worst, depending on the economic situation. If investing in the market has risk, CPF will also have risk. How does the government payout to us if the economy is not good, which likely the same as the market?
Anyway, good videos with most point taken.
cpf is NOT risk free.
Wah, you not scared cpf go after you.
good morning
50% of my pot in spy leaps
Hehe kelvin gor gor
Hi
times is changing rapidly .....the new narrative is How to reduce lifespan in 9-6 and live off portfolio haha 😂
👍
First to like :)
Don’t bother with that loo dinosaur. Too conservative and suitable only for certain demographics. For the younger crowd with strong earnings, his methods will slow down FIRE.