Ups & Downs From Star Trek: Discovery 5.5 - Mirrors
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- The one where Rhys points at people.
L'ak's Species Revealed In This Week's Star Trek: Discovery Episode 'Mirrors': whatculture.co...
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Linus playing jazz piano in the final scene definitely deserved an up.
The 'Citris Mash' scene was my favorite of this episode.
An extra up for me was the way Raynor is becoming the Jack O'Neal of Discovery. It made me grin when the science team were getting deep into the nuts and bolts of the technobabble and he was just saying 'I don't care, just figure it out and tell me what to do'. TNG in particular sometimes had this weird habit of every single officer seeming to know huge amounts of super-advanced science that had nothing to do with their actual job, so it's refreshing to have a more straightforward character in there.
It’s Jack O’Neill. ✌️ 2 Ls!!! 😄😄
@@Dave619. Dang it... you beat me to it... just a shame there isn't an emoji with 3 raised fingers. :)
The character knowledge was meant to show the development between “crew” who had only one specialism and “academy officers” whose education is equated to the equivalent of three of todays PhDs. That is how the characters, understanding and background is driven specifically. It is referenced in one of the centre seat episodes discussing the differences in Enterprise and TNG. in ent there is a scientist, engineer but by the time they realised and developed space travel they found the engineer need3d to understand complex physics, the medical doctor needed to understand material chemistry etc.. that and command crew were pulled from ranked backgrounds and not command crew as Archer was trained but specifically Archeology (Picard)😅, or BioScience (Janeway) and Weapon Physics (Sisko) they all had completed multiple PhD level studies in multiple subjects so a bridge crew of five officers could, in theory have 15 different doctorates between them in the latter franchises.. hence how these conversations and solutions work..
when Wesley is pushed back in the academy following the shuttle accident he specifically refers adding a fourth subject matter to his resume so its clear somehow that they have streamlined education in these complexities to a year per doctorate at Academy level
Jack Crusher refers to being a formal medical doctor several times from an off world institution, despite no academy attendance yet, and no historical formal education after his time in England so it is clearly more streamlined, specific and relevant then what we do today.
I've been likening him to Michael Garibaldi, but yeah-O'Neill is definitely a better fit.
@@samwalker8893 I read through some Optometry texts a while back. I remember thinking at the time that you could compress all the actually useful knowledge in them into a 3 month course that any intelligent person should be able to follow. Instead Optometry needs a "gatekeeper" undergrad degree (which serves little purpose except to weed out candidates), and then 4 years on top of that of Optometry school. 8 years of very expensive schooling at for profit schools for something that could consist of 3 months of schooling and a four year on-the-job apprenticeship.
Our higher education system is absurd. Not because you don't learn anything even in the most "useless" undergrad degree (a good student can learn a lot in any system), but because it's technically suppose to be focused on getting people jobs, but it does it in the most round-about back-asswards way possible.
If you intended to train people on specific jobs, most jobs would only need a few months of actual school followed by a long tiered apprenticeship. If you were going to teach people to be better people, or teach them to have a lifelong desire to learn new things on their own - which is the justification I normally hear for the existence of our current system... a four year undergrad degree is an extremely poor and slow way to do that. Very 19th century. Very outdated.
Agree with you completely that it was an Up (and damn well time) that we saw the crew working together to solve a problem. I was starting to wonder why they had so many people on this ship when only 3 or 4 of them actually worked on problems. Surely the 32nd Century would automate the routine, non-problem solving jobs.
Thank you for commemorating John. I know his daughter well and he and Bjo are so important to us and our group.
And an up from me for the Alien shirt on Alien Day.
I worked on DISCO and it was done while SNW was on hiatus after Season 2.
When Rayner says, "why hexagonal?" And Stamets responds, "doesn't matter, it will work." Rayner made a "fair enough" face, since he's the one who doesn't need to know how the cake is boiled.
Because hexagons are the bestagons.
You say they don't do anything with the Enterprise, but I disagree.
In Enterprise and then discussed in Discovery, we have a Prime universe ship, the Defiant, being turned into a Mirror universe superweapon, the epitome of what the Terran Empire was all about.
Now, we have the Enterprise, a Mirror universe ship, has been brought to the Prime universe to do what the Federation was all about, better themselves and become the solution rather than the problem.
It's a mirror, if you think about it. The ISS Enterprise has become a mirror to the USS Defiant. Two ships removed from their universe, becoming exactly what their new universe is supposed to be.
/\ /\ /\ /\ /\
this. 👍🖖
Law of Equivalent Exchanges?
We have not seen or I believe heard about the current Federation starship to have the name "Enterprise". Perhaps the ISS Enterprise gets a similar refit as USS Discovery, and gains a Letter and the "USS Enterprise" designation. Assuming they don't just put her in the museum (next to the Enterprise-D?)
I hope the Starfleet Museum we saw from Star Trek Picard does survive the Burn!
@@jacklai633 should do. The warp engines weren't in use
@@jacklai633exactly that… i expect to see it there next to the ENTIRE rebuilt or resalvaged enterprise line up from 1701 through to 1701-M or whatever they are on…. The fact they were very specific that ONLY engines in use blew.. and that they were creating the museum in cgi for another series would help spread development costs with both features wanting to use it.. i think it further cements picards need for the name drop earlier in the game. The final clue? In picards ready room on the D
Prediction: The I.S.S. Enterprise becomes the training vessel for the Starfleet Academy show.
Ooh that is an excellent suggestion
right because you can learn so much from a 23 rd Century ship from the mirror universe in in the 33. Century
@@TK000Master There's a parallel with how real-world militaries train people there, though. Pilots learn in a glider, then an old, cheap and reliable jet before they're let anywhere near a modern combat aircraft. Most navies also use older ships in drydock to teach cadets, in fact I think the Royal Navy still trains some on sailing ships or at least used to. There's something to be said for teaching the basics on ships with less advanced tech to fall back on/ mess up.
@@Majere613 i agree but not on a 1000 years old ship. Even if brand new. The tech on it is just way to old that it makes sense. At least to me.
@@TK000Master *points to discovery's refit*
Morn was bald because he kept liquid latinum in one of his stomachs, which caused his hair to fall out. ("Who Mourns For Morn?")
Yes yes yes…. So many missed this.. many missed mourn .. he has been spotted in several “starfleet bars” since… Picard, LD and SNW have all shown a mourn at a bar
@@samwalker8893 I suppose it's possible that many Lurians have some equivalent to male pattern baldness. We just happen not to have seen any with a magnificent head of hair.
But my guess is that rather than having missed the fact that Morn's species had hair, the Discovery makeup artists probably tried some wigs on the actors and couldn't make anything work that didn't look absolutely ridiculous. Seriously, think about Morn in a massive enough wig to make his hair as "magnificent" as Quark implied. It's weird lol!
I feel like most of these missed opportunities might not have been missed if they new it was the going to be the last season when the filmed it.
Sean, Raynor and Rhys couldn’t have shared a momentary acknowledgement of their appreciation for the Constitution class because they never actually talked about them. The scene where Raynor tells Rhys he loves the old Connies too was part of a time jump, so it was erased once time went back to normal. The only connection Rhys would have would be his 20 word interview with Raynor. So no meaningful glances required.
I know it's a necessary deployment of narrative handwavium, but I'd have given the trellium down for the crew of the ISS Enterprise leaving behind a fully-fuelled warp capable pod just in case someone needed to make a speedy escape. Might have given it a pass if Burnham hadn't made such a point of saying in dialogue that all the life pods and shuttles were missing and the crew had abandoned ship... which is not how Terrans roll.
The ship didn’t fit through the wormhole mcguffin till they mcguffined it just in time
@@morebaileyskimAnd then suddenly a shuttle magically appeared.
@@richardvinsen2385That was my big down. All the shuttles were gone. How did they get into one to leave the area?
@@jeffs6090 At this point, why are they even talking about tracking them? They don’t have a single clue so is it really a race to beat them to the progenitor tech?
@@jeffs6090 They installed SB equipment into a torpedo shell.
I have my own personal up, on run time 15:34. Notice how Michael is holding her phaser, I've noticed this in Strange New Worlds as well. They got at least some basic gun safety training, and I love that.
I think my personal Trellium Down was Stamets line: "That's the ISS Enterprise..." umm, that's a bit of a reach considering he only saw the outline of the saucer section of an old constitution-class ship. How would he have immediately known that was what it was. I would have accepted "Is that the Enterprise?" or, better still, no line at all. Just seemed like an unnecessary exposition frying pan in the face...
I think the other down is that the design didn't really need to be the SNW Enterprise. There's still the possibility that there'll be a slight re-design when Kirk takes command (I can forgive the appearance discrepancy between The Cage and Discovery Season 1's finale just as a visual change) but why would the ISS Enterprise be retrofitted to an earlier exterior design post-TOS. But, maybe I'm being picky.
"The Breen Penneys....". Well done on that one 👏 👏 👏
I love that we get a breen as the main bad guys. Sure they feature near the end of DS9 but we don't know a huge amount about them yet (in cannon). I'm glad we didn't get yet another Borg, Klingon or Romulan arc
In season 1 mirror Saru died at the hands of the imperial chef. So the Saru that's referenced here must've been the one that Georgiou saved after being sent back in time the guardian of forever. That means that this Enterprise is from a different mirror universe or the original mirror universe timeline has been altered or it was a different Kelpian after all or the production doesn't really care much about continuity.
And yes, they could've done more with the Enterprise this episode but that doesn't mean they won't in the future. They wouldn't go through the trouble of retrieving the ship only to mothball it, never to be seen again. It's all but certain they will give it the Disco-A treatment and give it a 32c makeover. Plus, Kovic is gonna have a field day with this ship
I was wondering if I had misremembered that. I like the suggestion that Georgio actually did go back though. The episode made it seem like it was some kind of test or something only she experienced meaning she wasn’t back.
It makes *sense* for it to be the ISS Enterprise. It was an old ship by the time they escaped, it was Spock's ship, who made the reforms that led to the eventual end of the Terran Empire, and it's bookends; The ISS Enterprise was the first we saw of the mirror universe, and now, the 32nd century, is the final. (Chronologically at least). Spock would have totally kept the Enterprise around and had/let it be used for refugees. Much easier to grab a ship that's set aside than try to hijack one that's in service.
there was a scene that I didn't get.
wormhole opens, enterprise comes through:
stamets immediately asked, if that is the ISS enterprise.
how would you know to ask something this specific? sure, he recognizes the shape, but it could have any constitution class starship, there were more than just the enterprise.
so how did he sense, that this is specifically the enterprise from the mirror universe?
Hint: Discovery S02
@@coolraul07 there is a huge wormhole, that glows bright white.
therefore he can only see the silhouette of the ship. no chance to read the text on the ship.
::hand waves:: *Tardigrade DNA*
@@GSBarlev does this tive him super vision?
@@robertheinrich2994 My comment was sarcastic, but I could see an explanation that he has superhuman powers of observation when it comes to trans-dimensional shenanigans.
See all Lurian's being bald because Morn was bald is my same issue with the Wadi Chula game in Lower Decks being exactly the same as it was in DS9. Characters talk about when Morn had hair (which he allegedly lost because he swallowed a thousand bricks worth of latinum) and the challenges of the Chula game are clearly chosen by the dice roll.
@@OldManYellsAtClouds that's my bad I could have sworn he said he had to jump to win, but my point still stands about the rooms he runs through.
We shouldn't be surprised, that the bridgecrew helps solving problems. They have done that a lot in Season 4 and 5. The show has gotten so much better at using this crew.
Just remember the opening of Season 4, where the crew gets introduced by assisting Book and Burnham on the planet and solving a problem for them, by throwing around ideas and then executing on it. The problem itself is pretty meaningless on the grand scheme of the season, but it clearly shows the growth of the show. And let me repeat that: This happens within the first 5 minutes of Season 4.
Or the fact, that the entire scientific bubble with the Species Ten-C gets solved behind Burnhams back. She completly relies on Stamets, Saru, Adira an Co, while Burnham is not even on screen.
Stamets and Adira also take centre place in the "what to do with Zora and is she alive" debate, which is a core conflict of the mid season climax. Dr. Culber gets so much to do by just being the emotional anker for the crew.
A turning point for me was actually season 3, where Detmer had to fly Bookers ship, because she was the most qualified person for the job. That was probably the first time, Captain Burnham had to put "all the eggs" into one of the Bridgecrews basket and just trusted them to solve a sticky situation. In Season 2, she would have piloted that ship herself.
Everyone, that is still claims, that this is the "Michael Burnham, the godchild" Show, clearly stoped watching midway in Season 3. Which is fine, but then don't judge the later seasons, if you haven't watched them.
Damn I'm happy as hell. First heard the word Breen Star Trek generations then finally got to see them on DS9 at last at last we get to see what the breen actually look like and it's cool as shit I thought the moment I saw L'ak in the opener what a cool creation that is. Pretty much everything else in this episode went by the wayside for me I was just totally over the moon about that review.
Great review. I didn’t agree with some of your downvotes but I understood why you did it. I too was hoping for at least a picture of Spock or something just a bit more. This was how I felt last episode when they jumping through time. I really wanted to see Lorca or Ash Tyler.
I figured the record of the mirror universe crew was made not as they were fleeing per se, but right before they abandoned the ship. So: a little bit of time, since getting into the anomaly is at the very least dangerous.
5:02 “coming thick and fast” 😳
My take was that the High Chancellor that attempted reforms WAS Mirror Spock, some time after the events of “Mirror, Mirror”.
I can’t believe I still haven’t figured out where the blues flask came from and what’s in it… Please help me figure this out because this end scene is still remaining so mysterious
One missed opportunity i would say is it's the Discovery/ Strange New Worlds connie. It would have been soo good for it to be the TOS or even canonize the Jeffrey's concept refit. Especially since Picard season 3 had a full set of it. You didn't need to redress the sets much to do it.
Mbenga’s murder wall 😅😂
Stealth Penny's joke. I like it.
Down, Mal and Lok are able to escape via a warp pod. Early in the episode it was stated all of the escape pods had been launched plus why fly the whole ship out when you can use the smaller pod?
I wonder if the reason why the breen allied themselves with the dominion during DS9 is because they felt a sort of kinship with the changelings because of the hole fluid body's thing
27:27 good observation, especially when in DS9 “Who mourns for Morn” Quark observes that the reason Morn is bald is because he stored all the Latinum from the bank robbery in one of his 2 stomachs.
I think Rainer is being groomed to become Commandant of Starfleet Academy. He came in gruff, he's slowly being softened, and they featured Tilly as his muse.
22:01 i was thinking, when they first came across the enterprise, that it would have been epic if it was the Defiant from mirror universe when Cisco found out that it was copied. I mean mutiny, refugees and trying to escape that universe via transporters... All the elements were there but no love for DS9 i guess...😢
What I want to know is what plans Tilly and Dr. Culber were alluding to during the bar scene at the end. Did I miss something said in a previous episode?
Think you're a little rough on these last few. Really enjoyed these 💖
Not sure if it's been corrected already but the signal in sick Bay is a quantum signature, just means it's from the prime universe, not the mirror universe. Wasn't detected based on its organic nature :)
It makes sense that the changelings would trust the Bremen over the cardassians
I think Moll and L'ak are resourceful, but not very smart. If they are hunted by the Breen and the Breen are in a struggle with the Federation, it is only logical to ask for asylum from the Federation. The federation would be delighted to learn more about the mysterious Breen.
I like the callback of rebel Saru but I would have to give a down for how would Burnham know about that? Georgiou left right away and didn't have time to tell her about it
🎯
Interesting......... what I saw on P+ was simply "latinum and long walks on the beach."
Same here. Maybe the version Sean reviewed was a screener before the line was trimmed.
My down is the wormhole in viewscreen. We start the episode with an invisible wormhole; a little technobabble is used so Discovery's viewscreen can see it. And from this point on, the wormhole is visible. Visible in Discovery, visible in the shuttle (even with all the tech failing), and even visible on the ISS Enterprise - without any visible display updates! Down.
As for the breen overreacting, IDK because the dude (L'ak) is basically royalty, so he not only betrayed his whole race and culture, also his family by "mating with a lesser species" and at the same time with the person who has been messing with the dillithyum the breen have been buying.
Thinking inside the tight bucket, that seem to be a big deal.
Just saying, I'm really happy the breen are recieving all of this attention.
Good to see the Breen looking a little less Princess Leia like.
If I were a writer, towards the end of the episode, after the ISS Enterprise escapes the anomaly, I would have had Stamets scan the ship. Captain, there is an unusual signal coming from the Enterprise transporter pattern buffer. There's a signal which they beam up. There is goatee Spock, whose first concern is about Scotty, who was in the other transporter buffer. His signal degraded, a mirror of what happened in the TNG episode Relics.
I really hope they visit the mirror universe in STW . That would be so cool.
Totally agree that the ISS Enterprise was a missed opportunity (with the caveat that it might be redeemed if it crops up again later in the series).
Did the Terran crew who made it into the Prime Universe all succumb to the same sickness that affected Mirror Georgiou?
HOW did the 23rd Century ISS Enterprise get into the wormhole realm, if the wormhole was created by the Prime Universe Burn of the 29th Century?
0:39 - When do we get Star Trek: Grudge?
This shocking thought actually jolted me awake but, what if the ISS Enterprise is actually a Trojan Horse, of sorts, where its crew stored their patterns in the transporter buffer in much the same way that Scotty did on the Jenolan in the Next Generation episode, Relics? Goodness knows how devious the Terrans were.
We finally see what the Breen look like under their refrigerator suits. I hope we can take a pick of their home world. I’m happy to see the Discovery crew working together. That has been missing from past episodes. Molly and L’ok have a symbiotic relationship and l’m there for them.
I really loved the episode, I was just hoping they'd resolve the chase part and add a little more variety to the whole thing.
You called Locke being Breen
Ever since Disco jumped to the future I've been waiting to see a 32nd Century Enterprise. Guess we have now.
But yeah, this could have been any SNW-TOS era Constitution. It being the ISS Enterprise has no bearing on the plot.
What if it had been the Defiant.. NCC-1764? A bit of a round trip. Will the ISS Enterprise be able to survive in our universe?
There are actually a lot of scenes of the Discovery crew working together. They've been a well oiled machine for a long time now.
sean needs a hug ... id be happy to give you a hug mate
The breen look like the lovechild of RoboCop and a cylon 😊
While I do understand budget constraints, if they were gonna do the I.S.S. Enterprise, I wish it had been the refit version from the movies. It would have made more sense for the timeline, and it would have been great for us TMP fans. Either that, or have it be the prime universe Enterprise B, which would have been amazing to see and would have finally solved a long standing Star Trek mystery.
I'm hoping for a possible Iss Enterprise refit al the Discovery when it arrived at Star Fleet HQ. Star Fleet could still use more ships.
14:57 Yes! No big speech!
After watching this video and thinking about the episode - could have not made the ship the USS Defiant instead. Would have been a nice throwback to both TOS and ENT and given the ship a trip back to the prime universe
Don’t count out the importance of it being the Enterprise yet. They did salvage the ship, something I wasn’t expecting. Usually in a situation like this, the ship would explode. I think there might be more to the story.
But, yeah, the set and the CGI model were available.
I’d love to see the ISS Enterprise to get a 32nd Century refit
Totally Agree, when the trailer showed the ISS Enterprise I was expecting a larger story based around it, there should have been more throwbacks to the Mirror Universe Spock, as you say, massive missed opportunities
Surprised no mention of the fact that the ISS Enterprise had an incredibly long service life for a starship (2245-2355) based on the Stardate on the altered dedication plaque, and that in DS9 "Crossover", it turns out the Empire had only fallen just over a decade prior.
I wonder if there is a mirror universe version of the Progenitors. Or have they planted the seeds of humanoids on both dimensions but originated in one of them?
The episode said Morn "lost his hair" - they never said where his hair was!
The one down I would give is when the Enterprise was coming out of the wormhole and Stamets says, "Is that the I.S.S. Enterprise?" How did he know it was the I.S.S. Enterprise and not just any constitution class ship from just looking at it on the viewscreen. Maybe I missed something but ya, that didn't feel right. Also when they talk about Saru, wasn't Saru killed when the discovery crew went over to the mirror universe? I thought Emperor Georgiou and Burnham ate part of him...
That was a different one. Saru became the Emperor's personal servant instead.
A fitting choice of Latium up!
I have a down you missed: in DS9 they said the Breen had no blood...yet when Lak gets stabbed...he has blood.
I didn't think I would miss the klingons more than the breen under the hood reveal. Ah but sean this is the iss enterprise not the iss enterprise-A.
I think they intend to do something with the ISS Enterprise. Either with the end of the show or with "Starfleet Academy."
Thank god that this is the last year.
Moll looks great, like one of the characters from Farscape. Cheers from the Pacific West Coast of Canada.
Definitely the best episode so far this season
I hope Dettmer and Owosekun are wearing EV suits while they pilot the Enterprise back in case it pulls a Georgiou and starts losing molecular cohesion.
I wonder would they bring back the ISS Enterprise in the academy show as a training ship for the cadets? Like a Refit Neo Constitution Class 2 in the 32nd Century?
Would have nice to see an ISS Enterprise D. or any Galaxy Class ship. they had the set already made so they could have gotten a little more use for their money. and we would have got to see how the minor version looked.
What bothers me is Dr. Cho: The discovery of the progenitor with Pikard, and the subsequent research group, is a hundred years after the original Enterprise. Was there some time slippage, or was Cho very long lived, or was the ISS Enterprise (no-letter) diverged from Prime and not destroyed or refit and continued in use for a long time?
Also, Cho was a Branch Admiral but also a working researcher?
Think about it, tho. Mirror Spock's reforms rise and fall, and THEN this ship brings children over. And yeah, admirals can still be working researchers, just ask head of Starfleet Medical Admiral Crusher (at the end of Picard). Who's gonna say they can't? They're still scientists, even as admirals. ESPECIALLY on a high-security operation like this, you want upper ranks, and the higher standard of care means people live ably beyond their first century.
That's what I thought. Jinaal said when they discovered it, it was during the Dominion War, then they hid the pieces. Wouldn't Dr. Cho be dead long before the Dominion War?
I don't like how before the enterprise is even out of the rift, they ask if it's the enterprise. The markings weren't visible yet. That was a huge down imo
In terms of referencing goatie-Spock, this is where Lower Decks would've NAILED it. Oh, man, they would've gone off on the whole thing. Ashame.
I was really hoping it might be a Terran enterprise D using the set from Picard. Given that we are using a TNG storyline and Picard’s picture has been used.
Im calling it - The ISS Enterprise is refitted as USS Enterprise-A and becomes the next ship when disco is eventually left to sleep,
maybe Rayner as captain if burnham goes with booke?
Itd be a good story arc ending, and leave us open to an upgraded enterprise series in the future :D
I actually like this episode.
Morn lost his hair, because he was hiding latinum in one of his stomachs. Quark mentioned when Morn shows him the latinum. DS9 S06E12 "Who Mourns for Morn?"
we've seen beardy spock already in this series.
Aren't Christmas Puddings "boiled cakes"?
17:10 He actually killed two of them which were the guards and wounded the third one which was his uncle (?).
A Lurian's natural hairstyle should be a beehive.
I feel like the ISS Enterprise will have some sort of use in the next series as well?... feels like setup
Wouldn't it be funny if the first time we say the ISS Enterprise there was a debris field in front of the saucer section that kinda looked like a goatee? :)
I am not 100% sure but I think that the New Chancellor mentioned in the Plaque that was assassinated, was Spock.
That was what I took from that as well!
Same
When the Enterprise came through the wormhole and there was almost a reverse shockwave, I was positive that either everything or some crew would become their mirror universe counterparts.
We've seen that wormhole before....in TNG when Picard's double showed up. Very similar visually. You will REGRET the Enterpise down, did you even watch DS9? They find a ship and give it to Starfleet, and later an episode USING that ship. I say she will return and they WILL do something with it. Mirror episode maybe...
Is Rhys going to get a bigger part? He’s saved the day twice now.
We’re just going to ignore that there were no shuttles, etc on the Enterprise but the dynamic duo managed to find a warp capable craft at the last minute?
You think they may do a mirror universe episode in strange new worlds ? 🤔🤔🤔
I was surprised that two characters, both non-Starfleet, could figure out how to hot wire/circumvent 1000 year old technology so quickly. Take someone today and see if they can figure out a computer from the 1950's or 1960's... I don't think it would be be made to do what you want quickly.