The Mystery Roman Object - that Defies Logic
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- Опубліковано 27 чер 2024
- Thanks for joining us this week as we explore why the Roman Dodecahedron has been such a mystery for over 250 years. Do you know what it was used for?
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Usual notices:
1. We are not historians. We enjoy researching and learning, and with that we enjoy sharing our journeys with you. That said, sources for information often listed below with credits.
2. Errors. Whilst we make every attempt to not include any errors, research, and piecing stories together from dozens of sources sometimes leads to one or two. I will note here if any are found:
Credit for assets
Long UK Maps: mapswire.com/maps/united-king...
Filter: Snowman Digital and Beachfront
B-Roll Maps: Google Maps and Google Earth Studio
Maps: National Library of Scotland Maps:
OS Maps. Media License.
Stock Footage: Storyblocks
Music: Storyblocks
Old Map: NLS - www.nls.uk/
Credit for CC Images:
Society Image front: Chemical Engineer
Saalburg Images: I gorinin
Society Inside: Richard Nevell
Society History Day: Philanfrenzy
Dodecahedron 1: corvusfugit dot com
Dodecahedron 2: Okapi07
Dodecahedron 3: Gloumouth1
Dodecahedron 4: Wuselig
Dodecahedron 5: TimeTravelRome
Dodecahedron 6: Romainbehar
Dodecahedron 7: Lokilech
Isocohedron: Kleon3
Sources
corvusfugit.com/2021/02/28/2n...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society...
tinkerings.org/2020/12/25/rom...
www.romandodecahedron.com/the...
tinkerings.org/2020/06/17/rom...
www.independent.co.uk/news/sc...
Chapters:
00:00 - Intro
01:07 - 1739 Hertfordshire
03: 21 - What are they
06:39 - Mapping
07:47 - Why it wasn't use for that.
09:39 - Conclusion - Розваги
Big thanks to William Green (Twitter: @ ShedlyYard ) for making this 3d printed version of the mystery object. Paint supplied by HMG Coatings.
My first thought was some sort of corner hitch for horse straps (or maybe iron bars/tent pegs), but I then wondered why the different sizes of holes. But when you came back to the map, then I thought that the Celtic tribes were much bigger users of chariots and hobby horses than the Romans were. Are there other technologies that were similarly associated with regions that would fit?
I believe it to be a British-Romano Shamanistic instrument. It is a type of Chumpi Khuya Stone that the shaman in Peru use. The spheres on the corners allow the object to move across flat surfaces with ease (around the body).
The dodecahedron shape was seen in a psychedelic hallucination by a shaman who lived back then and who had the knowledge of how to forge metal. He copied what he had seen in a vision.
The shaman would travel and meet other shaman, and inform them of this new instrument they are using; to engage the body’s natural energy system.
The holes in the panels allow energies in and out, depending on how the shaman needs to heal the person he/she is tending to.
See: Chumpi Khuya Stones used by Peruvian Shaman. There is a video on UA-cam on how the Shaman use them. The stones are golf ball to baseball in size. They are carved into 3 dimensional shapes, have sphere nodules, and patterns cut into them.
Ultimately, this is just a guess.
I've always had a theory about what those metal balls are
Your in a siege party or raiders/invaders
1. take object
2. Add a small amount of sheep wool/goat hair thats been soaked in alcohol
3. ignite
4. Load into sling / throw onto flammable roofs.
5. Burn them to the ground from distance.
They would also more than likely be reusable. The metal nubs around outside would give grip
Just a theory, but it fits well in my mind
Different versions, different makers
First thought is that it's a Druid's religious item.
i think it's for measuring serving sizes for spaghetti … or inserting fingers to measure for a ring to be crafted.
It’s either for putting in your tumble dryer to keep your togas fluffy or you fill it with peanut butter and garum to keep the dog amused whilst you pop out to the forum for a while…
I love the garum reference!
🤣
garum and treats and it'll keep the cat interested as well.
It's pretty obvious isn't it 😅
I doubt it, but this is a great explanation! 😂
My personal hypothesis is that they are proof of skill. A literal Masterpiece. If you're a traveling blacksmith seeking work across the northern roman empire how do you prove your skills? You make a standard shape that requires a multitude of different skills and artistry to make.
Absolutely love this Alexander.
Ive thought the same thing. Like a lot of trade guilds still do today. If you look up a "turners cube" or "machinists cube" you'll see the exact same sort of behavior. In thousands of years, people are going to find them and wonder what the heck they were for.
You make a good point Alexander. I don't think you could forge this piece very easily but maybe it could be cast using the lost wax process. I wonder if they know what it was made from and how?
My thought exactly!
Except they are made of bronze, not iron or steel.
I would imagine they made a version of the thing out of beeswax, and then packed oiled fine sand tightly inside of it and around it with a channel for the bronze to be poured in and another channel for it to run out of or breathe as its being poured. Then heat the mold so the molten wax comes out, and then pour in the molten bronze.
I'm assuming that sand casting was a thing back in the western Roman Empire era
I imagine one snake oil merchant and his blacksmith travelling and selling "mysterious objects of great power"
That was my idea as well.
That they where thrown away when they realized they where scammed lol.
Like the theory.
But would there be more of them found?
One day future archeologists will discover a strata of human refuse full of fidget spinners and spend the next 200 years trying to work out their religious significance.
It's certainly possible however looking at the detail i can't imagine it being easy to make which to me rules out snake oil since it would of had to be sold for rather high value to make anything from it. For them to have lasted so long in such good condition and intricate designs with no wear suggests to me that the objects was of high value and something to be looked after
It's a survey tool for road construction,
If you had four of them, you could place small poles in the holes to form a frame for a tent, with cross members for strength. Then place a canvas over it. That's what I see every time I see one.
It's for the corners of a tent.
Expensive corners you have there.
Beautifully, perfectly made, totally professional and precise corners.
Sorry, it could be used like that quite obviously, but it don't believe it.
But its value with the workmanship...
@@B.Ies_T.Nduhey I did not consider expense. I think you're correct.
@@MadAnthonyI You might be onto something. They aren't finding them by the thousands, so they wouldn't be for the common soldiery. But it was a known fact that high ranking officers had very opulent traveling accommodations, so perhaps this theory isn't wrong, so much as it is just for the elite.
Nice idea but doesn't the icosahedron contradict that though? There's no way you're getting a tent-pole through that and yet...it's clearly a variation on the same kind of object.
@@origaminosferatu3357 not thru it, but a notched end into a hole a couple inches. If you had one in each corner you could have a cubicle shaped frame and the crossbars for strength.
its the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch.They are used for pest control, especially large rabbits.
Be sure to read the instructions!
There were no rabbits in Great Britain at that time.
@@Milamberinx Looks like it worked pretty well then.
@@Milamberinx Yes there was, the Romans brought them over.
Esp white rabbits hiding in caves...
A Roman walks into a bar.
The bartender asks, "What can I get for you?"
The Roman holds up two fingers.
The bartender says, "Five beers coming up..."
don't get it
@@johnduffin9425 The two fingers make a V, which is the Roman numeral for 5.
@@facelessman9224 ahh! Thx u my good homie!
Someone call i ex i i!!
We came, we saw, we got hammered!
The Romans were clearly trolling future archaeologists.
Some of these things will be spotted by Mars rovers next.
Looks like something a blacksmith student would make as a graduation test object.
In their time, it was common practice to shave the edges of coins - ie remove some material. This was so common, that virtually no coins in circulation were full diameter anymore. A way to classify the remaining diameter of metal was needed that could be used to calculate the 'value' of a coin presented - and the person that did the calculating was more often than not - a tax collector. So this is why you see these in places far from Rome, where the paying was being done, and lots of coin shaving was underway.
Low value materials like copper were bigger coins, and high value materials like silver were smaller diameter - thus why you needed lots of sizes, and the reason for the finely made measuring tool - was so you couldn't copy it - ie make a fake.
My thoughts when I first saw it. Measures the shaved coin to determine it's weight roughly.
@@blimm2341But then what are the noddules on the corners for. Plus a much easier and simpler way to see if a coin had been shaved, would be to just compare the coin to an untampered coin.
Why the matched hole diameters on opposing sides though?
@@fafski1199
There were many different types of coins in diameter and thickness. Maybe a piece of leather or metal or string of some type used on the nodules to measure thickness. This was just my first thought on what it might be. I have several ideas listed in the comments of what It could be used for.
That could be done without the elaborate shape of these things.
It's a candle holder. There was no standard width for candles, so variable hole sizes. The nubs are feet, so that it isn't flush with a table, prevents wax seal from forming. Important enough in a world without electricity that they are all over the empire. Unimportant enough to not record them. The ones we have are probably the expensive ones. Certainly there would be lots of different versions made of wood, etc. A couple of the ones which have been recovered have wax residue on them.
The wax residue could have come from being made with lost wax casting method ? My theory is that it was made for sitting on a window sill.
if the holes were meant to hold a candle one would expect the holes on opposite sides of the dodecahedron to be the same size, they're not. and that doesnt explain the existence of the icosahedron, whose holes are tiny.
People in this era tended to use oil lamps. Olive oil works well. But if your out of the places where you can't grow olives...
@@capt.bart.roberts4975 Perhaps candles were used where it was too far north to grow olive oil?
what about the icosahedron though? the holes seem way too small for candles
Yes glad you found that, I lost it last year when I was going for a walk about, thanks.
I’ve said this in a few other videos about this object: The object can only be one thing: A tool to make the one thing everyone needed until guns: Arrows. Or larger ones wound make spears.
- How? Like metal extrusion. Take a straight stick and pull it through the largest openings, then pull it through the next smallest openings. Maybe through the same way a few times. When your are done, you have a smooth straight shaft. The balls on the outside are so you can hold it in your hand with a good grip. Or wedge it in the crux of tree branches. There is really no other explanation. A simple, cheap, but elegant tool to make arrows out of sticks.
But he said there was no sign of wear on the ones found.
Or just a gauge. Dowels would have been used almost universally in millions of long perished items.. including arrows and spears. Maybe arrows were sorted post manufacture into bundles with similar heft and diameters. Archers could then select their preferred weight and achieve consistency when practicing.
No
ooooh, yeah I can see that would explain the different sized holes
How would you resize the holes once they wear out?
It's an old joke among archaeologists: if you can't identify a use for it, then it's a "Cult Object"
Fair
I would love to se beer bottle openers described as such.
And don't forget, when they find absolutely any site with no immediate reason of use, it's 'a place of worship'.
I swear, ancient societies had 15 'places of worship' per square meter... like they never had anything else to do besides hunt for wild pigs and then sacrifice them..
@@rexcatston8412 every place is a place of worship earth is goddess
@@marumiyuhimeThat's not why the places are mis-called holy sites. And it isn't what the sites were used for. Your misplaced pedantry damages the conversation and reveals your immaturity.
I'm not a maths buff but its interesting to read that Plato was using this dodecahedron shape - 12 sides, 20 vertices, 30 edges - to describe the science and philosophy of the cosmos/universe 400 years earlier than the Roman era. Zodiac (12 astrological signs) also in use by the Romans, each face perhaps corresponds to a sign? Just exploded my own brain looking up about this shape in the history of maths, philosophy etc so I'll leave it there - great vid!
there are other forms of it also used by cabalists the one my mum and dad used had a star of david in the center with 2 end central vertexis like put a 2 6 sided pyrymids together.
I'd be curious to know if the arrangement of the holes by relative size is common across the objects...
Roman version of a clay pigeon for archers.
@@mcfrsn62 I like the way you think!
Well done!
Probably a gambling game that had wooden pegs that fit in the unique sized holes. You role the dodecahedron and the holder of peg that fits the top hole wins the pot. 🎉
This is a good one, but seems overly complicated way to make a dice. But then again sometimes that’s what makes a game fun.
cypher tool! vids 40mins long and 2 weeks old its brill
For telling fortunes. The supplicant asks his question silently. The mage throws the object at their forehead;
whichever knob stuck, that's the answer.
😂
It says "you need a doctor, or better yet a forehead surgeon"
They were relatively rare, so not for a common purpose
Expensive and difficult to make, so not for something mundane
Made in different sizes, with different sized holes, or none at all, so not a precision instrument
Made with different materials, including gold
No symbols or annotations, so likely not a measuring device
No sign of wear, so not overly used
Not found universally in the Roman empire, so either required local resources, or a particular culture
They were not common enough to be mentioned by writers, and not rare and high class enough to be mentioned by writers ...
Rare??? They keep popping up all over the map!
@@ChelleLlewes There are only around 130 in existence ... for a Roman era metal artefact that extremely rare
@@davidioanhedges That's only how many have been found SO FAR. How many are still waiting to be found? Or how many have already been destroyed?
.. so ur sayin its Aliens, got it.
@@ChelleLlewes Compared to many hundreds of thousands of coins or vases, they are rare. We've unearthed a great deal of Roman culture at this point. Not saying there isn't / aren't more, but relatively speaking, they are hardly ubiquitous.
I think that they were so ubiquitous, no one thought to write down an instruction book!
That's the frustr
celts didn't keep written records sooo, more evidence for celtic origin?
Kind of like the extremely popular ancient Egyptian game of Sennet. Everyone knew how to play it, so no one wrote down the rules. So today no one knows them!
Perhaps in the distant future an archeologist will find an old fashioned pencil sharpener and assume it was some instrument of torture!
Well there's also the possibility these things drew some kind of ire. He said they were found in remote fields and dumps. Look at how elaborate that thing is. It had to be VERY costly to make. Who would throw away something so valuable, even if it was useless? For some reason, people got rid of them, in a hurry!
So the history of these things might have been scrubbed from all public records. Whatever they were for, it sorta looks like people grew to despise them! It could have been an unfair law, religious cult, outlawed gambling, the production of illicit materials...
Perhaps what we should be looking for are all laws forbidding items from the time. Look for an item we don't know about. From the law, we could even figure out their purpose.
This is a tool for knitting gloves! I don‘t remember the video of the lady who proofed by making a nice glove using it. Have a search.
...except we've never found any Roman knitted gloves.
He shows that actually, if you blink you might miss it tho.
@j.f.christ8421 AND HOW WOULD WE FIND 1000 YEAR OLD KNITWEAR!?
@@crakkbone8473 What do you mean "how would we find them?" Same way we find everything else! Graves would be good start, we've dug up plenty of those; heaps of clothing but not many knitted gloves...
I could dig up a pair of chopsticks and claim they're for knitting as well. Or vice-versa. I'm in the "people like making weird crap" camp.
@@j.f.christ8421 If you put time into thinking you might conclude that it’s because biodegradable materials don’t tend to last very long?
Btw. Gloves may not survive but the wearing of gloves is documented in correspondences between Roman soldiers, serving in colder regions, and their friends and family back home. Kinda proves that they did wear them eh?
@@hisroyalblueness And if you put in a bit of effort you'd know clothing from the Roman period exists, it didn't all rot away. We have found items made of wool, we have found gloves, but the point is we have not found any knitted woollen gloves.
The fact that the holes are different sizes on each face must be a vital clue to its use. However, they are different on each dodecahedron and are not standardised. One suggestion I saw on another thread is that it's a fancy stand for something, with the knobs acting as feet so that it stands level. This suggestion mentioned that small round-bottomed phials for something valuable like perfume/incense/medicine could be stood on it, using the most appropriately sized hole.
your observation was great! its used for cyphering, different holes correspond to the decoding wheel used to tell what the code was to encode, different faces have different holes which fit only one of the encryption faces with roman alphabet.
I have the best theory ... "Figitus Spinnerus Maximus!"
Fidget spinners where ubiquitous across the world for a solid minute, I imagine they would confound archeologists if found out of context, because they really had no context.
Very good point.
What would defeat any future-archeologists of course, is the sheer mass of our stuff. Just you turn your head, and look at the contents of your room, now imagine just describing it all for the catalogue. Not coming up with the use or uses, not the relationships between the various artifacts . . . just record them all.
All or almost all of it, very very durable, far more durable than any roman artifact could have been.
I've seen people still playing with new fidget spinners in 2024.
Fidget spinners were ritual objects associated with feasting during the winter solstice. Definitely.
Does this thing spin as well?
@@uncletiggermclaren7592 What do you own that's more durable than bronze? 🤨
I suppose my crockery and glassware might last 2000 years, with a lot of luck, but that stuff isn't modern.
Interesting story about the objects. Getting a replica made is a great prop for showing the size and form of at least one of the objects.
Thanks Eric
My hypothesis for what its worth is its a game, something similar to dice, where you would put a ball of a certain size in side, and roll it and the winner would be whoever rolled it and the ball came out the bottom, great video, got he thinking :)
cypher tool. army use strictly, hence why no mentions of it anywhere. a guy put together a brilliant video on it 40mins long and 2 weeks old
They've always reminded me of those knitting dollies that we played with a school when I was a mere whippersnapper!
I think that's an important consideration, as lots of features point to its use for that purpose. But. Why not across the Roman empire.
I thought it had been settled that's what they are.
@@ensignphil not to my knowledge.
@@pwhitewickmaybe if used with whool it was present only
in the colder parts of the empire…
@@pwhitewick To me this seems like people want this to be less mundane than it is, forgetting the sound principle of Occam's razor.
I can hear Francis Pryor saying "definitely ritual".
oh those time-team vibes 😂
Oh how I miss Francis prior appearing, added extra passion to a subject. 😊😊
I agree, Frances always said something was either religious or ritualistic. Man I miss the old original Time Team!
I heard him saying that as well!
If they don't have a clue, it's always religious or ritualistic..
I like the tool for making metal jewelry chains explanation. The demo is convincing. As a child I was constantly doing french knitting.
They've figured out what these are. They determine they were used for candles but not a candle holder. It was more like a life extender. It would be inserted over the flame of the candle creating a reservoir for the candle wax to sit in extending the life of the candle. Candles come in different sizes explaining the different size holes. Additionally it acted as a decorative ornament casting lighting effects on the wall. In Roman times wax candles are hard to come by and I believe were somewhat expensive creating the need to extend the life of a candle as long as possible
and I seem to recall they burned oil lamps more than candles in Italy, so probably why there weren't many found there. It very well could be a candle follower.
no its a cypher tool.
the Platonic Greeks thought the dodecahedron was a "secret" shape
“The dodecahedron was not widely taught,” said Gilbert. “It is the pure, spiritual lifeforce, and people were told to keep it hidden,........"
yes correct its still used by cabalists
I had thought of this as well glad to see someone else knows this
@@Luna-oo3fl polyhedrals are the life blood of a table top gamer
@@marumiyuhime I showed my wife and she said, It's what we use in knitting!
nice theory, but why have we not found any in Greece?
Rule number 1 in dodecahedron club?
Never explain anyhing about it so that the money never stops... Trust me, everyone is going to get rich, and laid!
Dodecahedron club for life! People are going to be so amazed a couple thousand years from now.
It's for knitting gloves. Google "knitting with a roman dodecahedron" scientists and archeologists were trying too hard thinking it was some wild religious object or something, but its just a common tool used by roman homemakers.
They used them to make magical gloves. That gave the wearer unlimited power to work in cold weather.
If you had a glass/crystal ball that was larger than the holes, you could place the ball over the hole (so it does not fall through). It would make a great fire starter or a microscope. Move the glass ball to other holes so its sits lower or higher to focus. You keep the glass ball inside the dodechedron for safe keep (through the largest hole). Trouble with my theory is that I guess no crystal clear balls have ever been found.
Oooo! That's a new theory! I like it. 👍🏻
The Romans didn't have the ability to produce clear glass, that was invented much later.
That's very interesting... They certainly had great glass-works, and definitely knew about magnification as they were making corrective-glasses 2,000 years ago.
6 different magnifications in a protected sphere is genius!
@@njones420 Thank you for that information, I had no idea that they could make corrective glasses that long ago. Wow they were clever!
@@Inoxx44 Weirdly, I found some Roman glass last weekend while doing some metal-detecting...first time I've found some, so did some research.
It's just a little green and blue glass-vessel which was sadly smashed, but the glass itself is very impressive.
My unsupported opinion: it was used in some kind of gambling activity.
Yes, I have always thought that too. It's shape means it could bounce unpredictably, which is perfect for a flutter Perhaps it was bounced off a wall and where it fell mattered. I've watched my son throw his similarly shaped balls (not quite dodecahedrons), and it's design provides the necessary challenge in catching it.
@@PrincipledUncertainty Gambling is my guess too though I lean to the idea that it was some sort of tally device.
Was gambling not allowed in Italy ?
@@cwill2065 Only Texas hold 'em!
Gambling or a game to keep active.
Very interesting video Paul. Enjoy watching
A navigation device? Get alignment of specific holes and specific stars and you could tell the direction. Extremely important outside Italy in non-Roman territories.
I have never seen this before, but looking at it, it looks like a great tool for sticking on a post and using the balls to loop strings around for repeatable angles in construction.
I showed my wife and she said, It's what we use in knitting!
Well, it's not though, is it?
@@beaudilecaliste6545 i can tell you're british
@@beaudilecaliste6545
Correct, it's not.
The differently sized holes wouldn't make differently sized knitted fingers for gloves, because the pegs would still be at the same distance, and that's what controls how big the knitted tube turns out.
It was used to resize & straighten timber for Arrows.
its a calender. When you are far away from the head quarters as a scout, you can lose track of date. But this 12-sided tool can tell you the actual date. Deducting the date of missions start, you can tell for how long your have been away and calculate an approximation of distances, you can map, you can tell how long it takes to get back home
its a cypher tool.
The year is 4024... Archeologists discover a strange spinning triangular device and start making theories on what it was used for.
A tree? In Romford?
That DOES defy logic!
Haha...
Hainault Forest and Bedfords Park are near Romford. Lots of trees in those two.
I've seen plane trees in Romford! There was one in my mates front garden.
@@jimroberts3009 And Epping Forest!
There *was* a tree in Romford but it got dug up, weren't you guys watching the video?
Its for knitting gloves. Some of them show signs of wear that are consistent with repeated threading of yarn and using needles. Their overwhelming presence in domestic contexts, particularly in regions where wool and textile production were common, supports this theory. The multifunctional nature of the dodecahedron would make it a valuable tool for knitters, as it combines several functions into one object: tension control, size measurement, and shaping.
1) Starting the Glove: The knitter could start by threading the yarn through one of the smaller holes to create the fingers of the glove. This would ensure that the fingers are uniformly narrow and consistent in size.
2) Knitting the Palm: As the knitter progresses to the palm, they might use a larger hole to allow for a wider section, maintaining the appropriate tension and shape.
3) Finishing the Cuff: For the cuff, the knitter could use one of the larger holes, ensuring that it fits snugly around the wrist.
That theory has been thoroughly disproven, knitting wouldn't be invented for another 1000 years. The holes would also not have any effect on the size because the pegs are evenly spaced.
I've always thought it looked like some kind of knitting implement or rope loom
@@andri3012 don't be so sure. The portability of knitting seems inevitable to predate looms.
Before (or elsewhere from) knitting with needles, yarns were knit together in a technique called nallbinding in Scandinavia.
@@user-pt3gi5ul2e It's not me that sure. It's historians that are sure.
Pondering this mystery is fun as heck, can't stop thinking about it, Paul 5* review
I think it's a game that uses different sized balls, possibly made of wood, where each player starts with a combination of different sized balls. The purpose is to get rid of all your balls. The holes are of different sizes where bigger balls will not go through smaller holes, but any ball smaller than the hole on top will go through. After each player either puts a ball in the hole or doesn't because all he has left are balls too big, they role the whole object one side over with a choice to roll it in either of 5 directions. It's not rolled like a dice, but tipped into one of 5 different locations in a effort to stymie and opponent or get where your next turn has a chance of you getting rid of more balls.
I think it was a game (gambling) piece as well but for coins. Could be that "balls" represented coins (or other monies), like gambling chips in Vegas represent monies. Many were found in stashes of coins.
That sounds feasible to me. Cx
Then why the nubs? Why wooden balls? (besides making it fit the theory better because no balls have been found).
@@BeyondEcstasy I thought wooden balls because they would disintegrate over time, as like you say, no balls were found. Having nubs could possibly make it more stable, or maybe there's an aspect to the game where if your ball lands in the hole below you get more points. If there were no nubs the balls wouldn't easily get caught in the lower holes and would bounce out. Maybe the balls were made of metal and people just never found any near the object because people preferred putting them in their pockets than the thing itself?
But if it’s a game why haven’t they been found in Rome
Tedious how the archealogical group runs to "religious item" for everything they can't find a use for. Makes me think of Arthur Weasley asking "what, exactly, is the function of a rubber duck?" and expecting Harry Potter to reply: " It's a religious artifact"
Indeed. For those who worship Ernie of Sesame Street.
🚽 That will be the leading fossil of our age in far future, probably another religious artifact then.
Man I love this guy and his love for history.
Thank for presenting the mystery. Would love to have that time machine to go back and find out.
I believe they were ranging devices. If you match the hole to the size of the object in the distance you could estimate how far away it was.
I was thinking along those lines, but then why do they all have the balls attached? it would do the ranging task without those.
Perhaps the balls allowed the user to hang the object from a string, and each know is located so that a certain pair of whole aligns with the horizon. ???
@@dfjtobin I think there are also a few examples with no holes in them, can't rangefind if you can't see through it.
For this to work the holes would need to be precisely calibrated and some sort of scale would be present. Neither is the case. There are far simpler primitive rangefinders that can be made without messing about with bronze dodecahedrons.
Wouldn't they be more consistent then? And also that only works if you know exactly how large the object you're looking at is and these have never been found together with the land surveying tools we know the Romans used.
perfect for making perfect angles, carpenter or architect's tool. if you're building a temple or palace type structure just stick a dowel in the right size hole and set it against a surface to check or mark the angles. building a bridge or aquaduct or anything else that needs to be precise for the engineering to work, it could save the whole project from failure.
M3galotherium - You're just saying that to tease us - you don't really believe that , do you?
You would expect to find one of those in Rome then.
Hey, these are memory aids. They're literal maps. The tools that memory sports competitors use today to memorize many decks of cards in short amounts of time were extremely widespread in ancient Rome. One of these techniques was to use a physical object of some sort; often, a loop of string, prayer beads, or whatever. In this case, I believe an example use is as follows: You tie one end of a LOOP of string around a knob, then there is a particular manner of weaving it between posts to represent decisions, left/right directions, distance, and so on. You can also tie in other loops of string or beads into such an arrangement on the fly to create a written record of the events that transpired on a journey. These are massive advantages for navigators on overland journeys, since the weather or time of day might not allow you to read a map or take notes. But you can tie a knot anywhere.
These Dodecahedrons appear to be either a calibrator or an encryption device.
I am more inclined towards a calibrator to determine the quality of something. For example, they could place an olive and see whether it is large or not, and whether it is large enough.
Why was it used only in the northern Celtic regions? Because olives there are not a local plant variety and the locals do not know what they should grow like.
Dodecahedrons are supposedly a tool for assessing the quality and classification of olives in the northern regions. It was used, for example, by merchants, officials and landowners. There is a possibility that they were made for each region, taking into account the local climate. The Romans could well have understood that the size of olives in Italy would be larger than in Britain. In the southern regions there was simply no need for such an assessment.
What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?
The aqueduct?
That's hilarious!
yes, of course, everyone knows the romans built the aqueduct. but besides the aqueduct, What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?@@FakeSchrodingersCat
Romanes eunt domus!
Healthcare?
Wow! They played D&D in the Roman Empire?!?!
Apparently so
catacvmbae et dracones
Maybe it was a simple means for measuring coins made of precious metals, to determine their true value. Virtually all coins of precious metals were shaved and clipped. It was a form of forgery.
I like the religious idea, if you put a candle down and place the dodecahedron over it you would get nice patterns on the walls!
So why aren't the holes shaped like Jesus?
@@Clavers1369 Dogs already have those.
What if you coated some cloth with tar, inserted it through a hole until the inside was filled, lit it on fire and launched it into a village of wood and straw dwellings?
My Grandmother had a small brass one of these but no knobs, I don't know what the game was but she said it was for playing a game.
Pretty straight forward. Its a gatherer for wooden poles to support tenting - a rain cover. The small 'balls' could be for ties - down ropes. What did roman soldiers do when ir rained? Carry on marching? No. They wanted fast, easy to assemble rain covers. Highly likely that the objects could have been linked with wooden poles to create a bigger shelter. Easy to make different sizes and simple to use. A universal shape.
why would all the holes be different sizes then? why do none of them show signs of wear? as one would expect if they were subjected to strong forces like wind blowing against a tent and putting stress on the wooden poles in the holes and the string tied around the balls?
@@Hephera those were the sales reps samples
What a load of Balls….
Way too expensive an object to be for work-a-day task like that. This is master metal casting, not mass production.
They would have found millions of them if that was the case.
I feel similar to Alexander below. Given that there is only one per location and there tends to be usually one smithy in the village, that it was made for use by a blacksmith, but not as a masterpiece. Could it be a gauge? For the thickness of things like nails or spear shafts?
Possibly for sorting arrow shafts. Romans shipped arrowheads by the barrel, then fitted shafts as needed. Cut branches from coppiced trees will have all ranges of diameters. The arrowheads were cast in bronze in different sizes. A gauge is needed to conveniently sort and cut branches for fitting to the heads / selecting the correct head for the branch.
There is one report of one found with a batch of arrowheads.
Larger dodecahedron for larger diameter tools/spear shafts?
The icosahedron with small holes a copy of the gauge approach but for some other purpose altogether
@@quesoestbonne Wouldn't that require the holes facing each other to be of the same size?
If that's the case why are the knobs on it, assuming they're heat welded on, that's a lot of effort for decorative knobs
Obviously not.
@@jakedee4117 no need to push the whole shaft through, only the end needs measuring
Excellent video Paul. The fact that keeps coming back to me with these objects is that they are not simple, not trivial to make. whatever they were made for must have been important and worth significant investment. Sorry, that's as far as my insight goes, I still can't imagine what prompted that level of commitment!
It's a drilling aide, or a guide for marking center points. The balls on the end raise it above the material beneath, so that the worker can visually verify the position of the bit before committing to the drill point. There was probably also a horizontal rule tool to verify the drill was equidistant at three points.
It looks like it’s designed so that if it’s thrown or rolled, the object would always stop with a face up. It may have been something similar to dice… or something meant to always be level. The Romans were known to spend a lot of time on games and recreation, so anyway… that’s what the object looks like it has a design for.
Ya it reminds me of a caltrop, which the Romans were probably overly fond of
But the differing sized holes would mean that the side with the smallest hole, thus most mass, would tend to be landed on the most. Sort of like 'loaded' dice.
@@gillie-monger3394 and yet, they don't show much wear from being rolled and we don't find broken ones... nor is there a 'scoring' system. I can't see the 'game' angle.
Put a ball in it and roll. If the largest hole is at the bottom the ball drops out. Winner/loser is result. Well maybe 🤔
@@Ripper218 😊 my thought too. Gambling game. 1 in 12 chance the ball drops out.
If the ball was smaller (say fitted in 2nd from largest hole) then 1 in 6 chance etc. Balls made from wood would not necessarily have survived, so a missing component.
What came to my mind was a portable or traveling candle holder. Candles were handmade and came in various diameters. You find the hole that best matches your current candle. Being metal it is heavy and will not burn or turn over easily. As for the one with many more sides and tiny holes, it could easily be for something else and unrelated.
My personal theory is that they are a blacksmith's demonstration piece.
The smaller it is, the more skilled the smith. Shows the potential customer how talented the smith is.
I do like this theory
You had to make the object in hard wax, pack it into 'sand ', melt the wax out, and then pour in 1700 deg. bronze. . Remove the cast object and polish it. No blacksmith anywhere near it.
@@kkarllwt Okay, I accept the pedantry. The.. metalworker? The forge artist?
Not sure it's particularly pertinent to my theory.
Im thinking they are a tool of some kind that were kept safe due to not much wear and tear. Since there have been so many found, it may have been a specialty tool made specifically for that one job. And, when the job was done, it was discarded.
Thank you for this video about this mysterious object.
I've spent the last week obsessed with this and my conclusion is that it was a land surveying tool used and designed by the druids. Look at the paper written by Willem A Jorg last year. Only theory I've found that has no major flaws. And no it wasn't for knitting gloves 😂
Interesting. Druids being a synonym for technician.
Indulge me and have a look at the several youtube channels showing socks and gloves being easily knitted on these. The holes suit several finger sizes including thumbs. The other one shown with 25 sides throws doubt on this theory of course.
@@teeanahera8949 Yes I've seen them. That's one of the theories that has too many major flaws to consider.
@@teeanahera8949 Those if my memory is working are called Matabas, and are described in Jewish Cabbalistic Rites.
I'm talking about the icosohedron.
Thank You for this History lesson.
I've been thinking about this for a while now. I think it's a game. It might have come with 12 (wooden?) discs the same size as the holes. The discs would be divided up between the players. Each player would drop a disc into a (larger) hole, then turn the dodecahedron once to an adjacent SMALLER side, so the disc doesn't fall out. Each player then takes a turn dropping a disc into the dodecahedron and turning it, the object of the game being to get rid of all of one's discs first. If a player doesn't have a disc that will fit, he/she tries to turn the dodecahedron to a side that the other players can't use, while not allowing any of the discs already in there to fall out - if any do fall out, that player is stuck with those discs. The winner is the one to get rid of all their discs first. If the discs are made of thin wood, it's no wonder they wouldn't have survived. Anyways, it's a theory!
Absolutely fascinating. Leaves me wondering what on earth they could have been used for. Great video as usual
What stands out to me from the distribution map is that the majority were found in areas where lots of troops were present - in other words near the European borders of the Empire. I think it's therefore likely that it is connected, if only tangentially, to soldiering.
Something else to note is the specific time period these were supposed to date from - around the 2nd to the 4th cemtury. This would seem to belie the claim that they are of Celtic origin as we would expect to have found examples dating significantly earlier than that.
During this period, Mithraism became popular with the army before being largely supplantes by Christianity. One could speculate a potential link here.
@@scottgoodman8993 I never suggested they weren't stationed elsewhere.
You're ignoring what I pointed out though - if these are Celtic in origin then we would expect to have found examples that predate the 2nd century. And by the 4th century, the inhabitants of Gaul and Illyria had a very strongly Romanized culture, so it seems very improbable that such artifacts would continue being made.
Furthermore, we would also expect to have found them in regions populated by Celts outside the Roman Empire.
Furthermore, there is a huge geographical distribution - from Northern Britain to the Danubian frontier. The Celts living in these places did not have a single material culture and there's no reason to expect them to have produced such similar objects. If this were so, then we could also have expected to find them in Iberia and Northern Italy, where Celts also settled, and we haven't.
@@scottgoodman8993 Incomprehensible, try again.
I agree. read my comment bacsi8337
@@patavinity1262 That would depend on when the dodecahedron developed and for how long it persisted. It is quite possible that it developed in a Romano-Celtic context, spread through those trade networks for a short time and then disappeared.
My current hypothesis is for less than a century, 4-5th CE
The Romans were road builders and surveyors they used precision instruments for sightings…Especially the military…
Possible uses:
-Dowel making/measuring
-knot tightening/rope binding/measuring
-coin measuring
-surveying distance
-testicle measuring for studding out animals
-delicacy food measuring
-angle finder
-jewel measuring
-magnifier (with glass on multiple sides)
Wow, how different can you get. Fascinating enigma
Can I please throw my two peneth worth in favour of the glove making tool.
1. Experimental Archaeology has shown they do work for that purpose.
2. The distribution. Oh look does that maybe match the colder bits of the Empire where gloves would be most valuable?
3. They are too ornamental to be mundane. Craftspeople like to have good looking varients of their tools. That is true now so why would it not be true then.
4. There should be more of then. Maybe the majority were made of less durable materials so have perished, the ones we have left are the 'high class' ones. (see point 3)
5. Possible celtic origins as another explanation for the distribution. Not mutually exclusive with point 2. Maybe they were, maybe the pre-Roman o es were made of perishable material. The romans bring improved metal working and metal versions get made.
6. The icosahedron. This could be a tool for a similar task, hence same solution. However it doesn't have to be exactly the same task. It could be a prototype for an attempt at a new versions. It could be someone attempting to replicate the dodecahedron from a bad descriptio. That's just the explanations I san come up with off the top of my head.
willy warmers?
Glove making. That's an intriguing hypothesis. Various hole sizes for finger sizes. Yarn would remain organized as it was wrapped around the knobs and brought in to be woven into form. Off the top of my head, I would think that rods of various sizes would work better: weaving around a rod seems an easier task than maintaining a diameter defined by a hole through which it passes, but I would have to see it being used. I have read a lot about expeditions, mainly in the exploration of North America, and have often read about the amount of time the men spent repairing boots, darning socks and patching other articles of clothing. A jig which someone could use to make gloves that fit well and could be worn while working would be handy, indeed. It would be interesting to see how the fingers would then be attached to the rest of the glove and how, in fact, that part would be fashioned. Definitely a leading hypothesis in my mind at this point.
As good or if not better than my ideas.
@@daveberry2177 The Romans would defo go there!
But then the size should be roughly the same but we've found that giant one, unless you're suggesting the Romans were making woolen gloves for giants that seems like it kills the theory dead. I guess you could claim that this was also just a failed attempt to make one but at this point you're throwing away a lot of evidence to fit your theory.
There's also the minor issue that the earliest evidence of knitting comes from the 11th century, if we really stretch our definition we can at most go back to the 2nd century in Roman Egypt, but that's not anywhere near where these objects were found. Just because something is common today doesn't mean you can assume it has always been common.
This is really quite informative and interesting, thank you :)
Well thank you 😊
@@pwhitewick And thank you sir, you've managed to drag me away from the damned election. I needed it. Would a metallurgical analysis help, you could then identify were the materials were mined.
In early America, there were thin metal measuring trays with various vertical slots designed to measure the exact thickness of gold coinage of various denominations. A coin was passed through a slot to determine an exact fit...to ensure its original thickness.
i remember that a granny in some eastern earopean country apparantly didn't realise the confusion and got something similar from her cupboard (apparantly it's for either embroidery or knitting)
I thought it was a knitting/Crochet Too. For making Golves, Scarves, Vests, Pants etc... Anywhere where you might need Warm Clothing.
My guess would be that it's a combination of two. A game that is played by attaching string or rope to the object and attempting to wind it across the pegs and holes towards a certain objective. Could be a solitaire sort of thing or oppositional with two people taking turns.
My thought…hard to even tell without having it in my hand… But what if you look through those holes? Could it be some sort of rangefinder? If you look through the holes you get perspective that gives you an idea of distance. And the 20 sided one with the smaller holes would be for longer distances? This would make it some sort of surveying tool. Suppose an apprentice with a standard sized stick runs into the distance. When the stick fills the diameter of a specific hole, you would have a very good idea of yardage. I’d even venture a guess that if you know the right standard size stick, you would get 10 evenly graduated distances (50’, 100’, 150’, etc) ? At least that would explain why there is no wear on it and why there is not a whole bunch of them lying around.
I agree with the theory that if it was a game or even a candleholder… That would be something much more common and we would find more of them.
That's a mouse spaceship. Or a Pole Gauge. Forget the other one. That's for sewing needles.
The big problem I find with the knitted glove theory is why have 12 different sized holes that increment by such a small amount? knitted gloves expand more than the size difference so having sets of holes that are the same size would be more beneficial in that you could make 2 at once. 12 holes also doesn't make much sense with 5 fingers and for something to be used practically they are far too intricate. I think the possibility of them being a form of calendar could be valid, the only ones who would need them would be officials which explains how uncommon they are but doesn't explain why they aren't in Italy.
I can't fit my fingers in any of them. That could be a problem.
The size of a knit tube is controlled by how many and how far apart the pegs are, not how big of a hole you stuff the knit finger down after it's knit.
Hi Paul, a fantastic tale to tell on a fantastic agger!!
Clearly this is the insides of a Roman Rubrics cube, where are the coloured faces? Well after discovering that nothing worked, nothing turned they took a hammer to them ....... at least that's what happened to my Rubrics cube anyway .....
I wonder if we will ever find out. Great subject and really well presented. All the best!!
how does this guy only have 121k subs, such great quality!
❤️❤️
Line up two holes and look through them (smaller hole closest) ,then by placing an eye so that the circumferences of the holes match, you have a fixed angle of view. If you look at a standard staff in the distance, and try various combinations of holes, you can determine the distance. So it's a surveying tool.
Looks like it could be a blacksmiths version of a 3d printed benchy
New video from Paul? Let's go!
Weyhey
@@pwhitewick Apparently Wayhey translates as weyhey!
I don't know what it is, but it works as a stand for the little round-bottomed Roman glass perfume bottles. They sit in the holes and the stand holds them upright to prevent leaking. Different sized holes for different sized bottles.
I have a replica one and - although I've seen the videos and other information - if you do use them for knitting, they make very lacy gloves with wide gaps in the fabric, so I don't think gloves are made using this if warmth is the goal. (I love all sorts of yarn gadgets so it would be great if it was for gloves!) If you try to use a thicker yarn, it's nearly impossible to get two loops to stay on as you work.
I think it is important to notice that the sum of two opposite holes diameters is constant (1 is opposite 12, 2 opposite 11, 3 opposite 10 etc.). The dodecahedron has (obviously) 12 faces.
Considering the Romans used the dodecimal numeration system (base 12), while the Celts used the vigesimal numeration system (base 20), I would say that it is a conversion device used to facilitate calculus from one numeration system to another.
I think its a rolling foot massager passed between soldiers and dropped , or kept as would any minor momento of service :)
Approved.
they would show wear.
Great video, Paul! I just asked Google how many Roman gods/goddesses there were, and it said 12! (Although there were actually a lot more than that, but 12 major ones)
Oooh I see the logic there. I wonder how many Celtic gods there were!
also the celts had definitely more than twelve gods, but their importance varied from tribe to tribe - and at the time of origin of these objects (second to fourth century) theyve been all merged by roman religion ("gallo-roman culture").
@@pwhitewick Dozens! Think of Pratchett's book 'Small Gods'.
If I had to guess i'd say these Roman Dodecahedron's were used for measuring the width of poles holding spears/arrowheads as different armies the Romans fought across Europe had different Armor countermeasures. The circles were used for a quick battlefield measurement of what would be the most effective weaponry used by the Romans depending on their location and who they were up against.
Put some wet clay in the middle, sticks in all the holes. Leave it to set. Now you have a device that can measure the same distance in any direction as well as make triangulation points.
But why the different sized holes?
@@750triton I've been thinking about this a little further...and it could be used for creating maps and/or transposing to different scales. No idea about holes, maybe for sight lines of points of interest. Maybe it is an early interpretation of a compass.
The small painted wooden ball that was inside has rotted away.......
Ahhhhh... maybe
Well, if it were not for the 20 faced object, I would stick to the Theory that the dodecahedron was used to connect wooden sticks, you would use a few dodecahedrons to build up a structure. Maybe something to hang pots over the fire? (uneducated guess)
The Roman eight-ball to help with haruspicy
@@rebny7801 I was thinking something like measuring dowel thickness. Can't think why you'd do that tho.
@@rebny7801 You would expect them to be more common then for either option. Also they were combined in some way you would expect some of them to be found together, these seem to all be found in isolation.
It’s one of many, joined by sticks of desired length and tied at the nobbly (“ball”) bits. A structure can be quickly put up and a canvas put over it like a tent
I think it’s a game where you try to run a piece of string along, or touch, each knob without touching any twice, (although it would seemingly be easy, so there may be some extra rules).
I'd never come across this puzzle, Paul. Fascinating.
Having watched the video and read the comments, I'm leaning towards the "proof of skill" explanation.
At least no one (in the comments on your video, anyway) seems to have gone down the "it's alien!" route.
I do like this!
Someone came close to calling it alien...idiot decided these have a connection to the atomic bomb. Talks about "the ancients'" technology. There's always gotta be some clown....
Bloody Von Daniken, he had these in his one of his books, can't remember what he thought they were.
I love the knitting theory for sentimental reasons, but from what I've read it's a purely speculative theory and some examples of dodecahedra have vastly different measurements and wouldn't be practical knitting aids at all. If they were intended to be used as knitting tools, you'd expect all of them to be usable as such. Similarly, if they were a measurement tool or a navigation device, they ought to have similar dimensions, but they don't seem to have been standardised.
The fact that they were found mainly in the Northern parts of the empire does suggest that their use is either uniquely suited to colder weather, or that they come from the culture of the people who were there before the Romans, or they were used for a technology that wasn't useful in the Mediterranean region but was useful elsewhere.
Apart from the "gloves and socks" theory, I've heard speculation about these being a construction aid for military tents, or a cooking aid used in military camps. I think if it were either of these, we'd have found more of them or at least a written reference.
The knitting theory makes sense because if they were all different sizes, they were owned by people with different sized hands. The tiny ones maybe used for infants and toddlers. The holes may have corresponded to finger circumference. The bigger ones used for socks. So many theories have been presented and all have their 'flaws' but maybe someday AI will figure out what these were used for and settle the debate with solid evidence by using the device for it's intended purpose.
@@ichitoburrito1359 holes that are big enough to knit socks with would need more knobs around the edges though, which they don't have. And you don't knit baby gloves with individual fingers - for one, because babies don't learn to use individual fingers until they're several months old, and also individual fingers cool off more quickly (especially with tiny hands) which is why mittens would be the better choice. You simply don't need tiny holes for fingered kid's gloves.