How Grazing Sequences-Goats to Horses to Cattle to Sheep-Work
Вставка
- Опубліковано 18 тра 2021
- Students of Geoff’s Online Permaculture Design Course have question-and-answer sessions where Geoff fields a number of questions every week and answers them via videos. This question was pulled from the 2021 collection. For an in-depth dive into all things permaculture, check out the free Masterclass www.discoverpermaculture.com/...
Question
In 3.3 the grazing sequence presented is goats then horses then cattle then sheep with ducks or chickens in between. Why this particular order? Is it always this order or would this be just one example?
Key Takeaways
Goats eat 40% forage, 60% pasture. Horses like a short pick. Cattle eat long pick. Sheep go really low. Chickens spread it all around, and ducks puddle it all around. In reality, it can be any combination of grazing animals, but putting varied collections of grazers really does work. The more types of animals put into the sequence the better it works, each animal performing its own little set of idiosyncratic tasks. The rest depends on the season and the animals, with the farmer simply watching the pasture and adjusting.
To support us in making more videos:
► Sign up for our newsletter and the Permaculture Circle-Geoff's curated collection of 100+ free videos: start.geofflawtononline.com/p...
► Like us on Facebook: / geofflawtononline
► Follow us on Instagram: / geofflawtononline
► Subscribe to our UA-cam channel: / @discoverpermaculture
► And most importantly, enjoy your permaculture journey!
About Geoff:
Geoff is a world-renowned permaculture consultant, designer, and teacher that has established demonstration sites that function as education centers in all the world's major climates. Geoff has dedicated his life to spreading permaculture design across the globe and inspiring people to take care of the earth, each other, and to return the surplus.
About Permaculture:
Permaculture integrates land, resources, people and the environment through mutually beneficial synergies - imitating the no waste, closed loop systems seen in diverse natural systems. Permaculture applies holistic solutions that are applicable in rural and urban contexts and at any scale. It is a multidisciplinary toolbox including agriculture, water harvesting and hydrology, energy, natural building, forestry, waste management, animal systems, aquaculture, appropriate technology, economics and community development.
#permaculture #permaculturedesign #grazing
It would be really neat to see a timelapse of a paddock over a month or two, showing the progression of animals (goats, cows, chickens, etc) as they move through in a week or so, then the regeneration over a while, & the return of the animals when they're due
Yes !
+1 this idea!
This would be a more time consuming production, or it would need more planning and later editing, and who knows how often the interns change, that act as camera person. He uploads the videos ad free and is busy. so doing it on one occasion and they are done with collecting the footage is the easier way to go.
But I agree, I would be interesting.
😊Tiotjogjoitjtpjgp😊😊😊😊😊
I love that the chickens instantly know what’s up and follow him around whereas the goats are totally out of it 😂🥰
It's worth remembering that the birds are there not just as grazers, but as the clean up, sanitation crew behind the grazing mammals. Timing there is important for fly management, three to four days behind, to feed on the fly larvae in the larger animal manure. They reduce flies and disperse the manure.
Seems really good for the chickens also so a very big win-win
This is really helpful to know! I'm researching having land/horses, and manure larvae are a concern of mine...
I used to secretly fish in Moscow Botanical Garden in the 80s. I was 10 at the time. ))))
Hilarious.
Those funny little wild life parks, we have them too here in the States, and call them a Petting Zoo. Parents with their young kids go there to interact, pet and feed the animals.
We run goats right now on our farm. 3/4 of the land is wooded, unfortunately 20 years the former owners clear cut the land. We have 15 goats now but the land could easily support 50. I absolutely adore my goats, doing such a wonderful job healing the land! I was concerned about all the undergrowth until watching your videos
Ahhhhh Geoff....just brilliant.....genius.....the secret is observation and patience.
One important thing to consider with your grazing rotation is parasite control. Goats will deposit their parasite load and when followed by equines, the horses will graze them up. The most harmful goat parasite, barber pole worm (Haemonchus contortus) will inhabit the short pasture grasses and has no effect on horses. Horses, donkeys (equines) grazed on low pasture post goats is a pretty solid grazing regimen.
Just spray the area with organic disinfectant every 4 days
thanks for the empowerment Geoff!!
I used to move my cows on to a clean paddock every seven days, so they didn't reingest worm eggs, I would put our goat in a few days before the cattle to eat the weed seed heads and keep the docks and other things that the cows wouldn't eat under control, then we fenced off a narrow section around our boundary fence where we kept the horses in the summer to eat it down low and create a fire break between our place and our neighbours and also our place and the national park. The small area close to our home was for the sheep as they graze low to also keep that as a fire break, it all worked so well
Brilliant, you Sir are indeed a wealth of knowledge.
We'll see Geoff in handcuffs by the end of the year for that little confession
Geoff already had that connection, that you put the land (and ponds) to good use ;) Sepp Holzer from Austria had that motivation too. He grew up on a mountain farm (160 days with freezing temps, and 50 days where the temps never go above freezing point - and that is RECENT, I think it must have been more severe in the 1950s. Mostly dairy).
1 hour walk to school (and 90 minutes or more uphill in the afternoon. Winter, rain or heat). Sepp Holzer is now into his
His mother had a vegetable garden and he was fascinated when he was able to grow something. then his (very strict) father gave him a very meagre steap plot of land. Steep, lots of stones, little water, he did not care to make hay there, and you could not let cattle in there they would have destablized the hill.
And goats were not kept. This was not done - so the Holzer family did not do it. you also can't have chickens out there unsupervised - the birds of prey might get them.
He realized that his father had given him the plot because he did not like to mow it with a skythe (the land nearby was manually mowed by humans and the cows crazed higher up or in the difficult spots and foraged for their fodder). So he extended the area he "leased" from his father by putting stones in the meadow adjacent to it. Then it gets harder to mow.
Sure enough, his father ruined one of the skythes and was done with it and little Joseph (Sepp is the short form of Joseph) got an even larger allotment for his projects. Kids did not get an allowance, but their godfather or godmother gave them a little money in the holiday season and his father made him pay a "symbolic" lease for the land he was given.
He had no water there, so he already and instinctively tried to "manage" water. That lead to a detection (happy accident) how to rehome a larger tree and after some time. The uprooted sapling he had seen had been out for a while and until Sepp got around to planting it it had already lost his leaves. Sepp was told the tree would not make it, but he planted it nontheless and he could not water it, there was no water nearby. But some morning fog, dew (nights are always cooler there even during hot "spells") maybe it rained.
The tree losing the leaves was the saving grace and not watering it was crucial (or very little if the area is semi arid). That forces the tree to invest big time into roots and to establish itself. A tree can survive for a while w/o leaves. Sure it cannot do photosynthesis, but if there is not much water, except moist soil, whatever reserves the tree has, will go into growth of roots, not new leaves.
So 2 - 3 weeks later the little tree showed the first new leaves and indicated that it was alive, and busy dealing with the shock and establishing itself. It also had to deal with the slope and relative lack of water (runoff, soil at that place did not have much water retention) by building deep roots. Which of course secures the slope and improves the water situation for other plants and builds biomass.
He realized that strawberries were more sweet when they grew nearby a larger stone that half peeked out of the earth (heat retention, warmer micro climate). This is a principle he also used for instance making ponds for fish and cray at higher altitude and planting trees, bushes as windscreen. The moved large rocks into it that catch solar energy and increase the temperature in the pond - at least in certain niches of the pond. Which improves survival of young fish.
In a time when the tradidionally working farmers (manual work, no machines, they had horses if they were lucky for ploughing and transport). were pushed to "modern" methods and use of machines. But the new methods were top down, technocratic and often failed - and more so in their region because it is more extreme.
So the young farmer (he took over at age 20) fell back on his childhood experiences after a few years. he must be a stubborn man, and he was not afraid of being considered "weird" by doing things differently.
He had learned as boy that you observe things that create niches in that harsh environment and provide better growing conditions - and then you try to copy that (with a tweak to achieve more yield for humans).
I'm on the phone to the authorities right now!
Guinea fowl are very good. They will remove the ticks and other bugs and are fantastic snake detectors.
I believe they are underutilised in the permiculture systems.
They make a hell of a racket though...
Climate too, has an affect on livestock forage as well. When it gets hot and dry, animals (including us) seek moisture. There are also regional relative palatabilities of rangeland with eating necessities met by the best available forage. Thanks for sharing and teaching. Very helpful.
Absolutely fantastic
Awesome channel!!
We tear out grass by hand and put mower clippings in the pathways where we trample them while walking to and fro. So you're saying grazing animals do this and even better. How do we teach cities to not impose negation of these natural things that work better than the machines we build to replace them?
Fantastic!
thank you
Thank you
There is one of those funny little wildlife parks with a café in taralga NSW. A mix of native animals and domestic farm animals plus a range of different birds, overlooked by a windfarm.
Would live to see you and someone thats more focused on grazing management as a profitable business model jave a convo. You have plenty in common and it would be such a good convo. Jim elizondo would be a great talk.
Cute 😍 chiken following everywhere 😂
Fantastic stuff. I have chickens, Sussex and isa browns and leghorns, a dexter cow looking to get a second, 2 miniature horses and a foal and 2 sheep with lambs, on 5 acres with a food forest, main crop and kitchen garden. The chickens can go where they please as we are only on 5 acres. The sheep, cow and horses are rotated through 5 fields allowing 2 to rest for a while at a time. What is interesting is the chooks peck through the manures, eating parasites maybe. They seem to love the cow manure at the moment but they change their minds often. We may get turkeys again soon and they add such grass hopper protection and good eggs and meat to the small farm.
@Claire, That sounds like paradise!! Can I ask, do you copasture species together and which ones do well Grazing In The Same space?
Chickens are so cute!
Beautiful video my friend!🙂👍13
It makes sense. You talk about the food forest mimicking the real forests in nature, I'm sure somehow the birds/livestock mimic what antelope/zebras/bison and birds do on the savannah or whatever other ecosystems you can name.
Keep your livestock managed according to a well thought out plan, 6 month or more into the future.
We have horses, goats, pigs, and chickens so in what order should we rotate them and in?
Will you please clarify: how much water are you giving the cows? Are they getting water from their food source? How many days do you wait before putting chickens in after the cows? At what point would you put pasture pigs in?
And what cover crops combination you have.
The actual method used organically many many years ago when soil was seen as important was Cows first (They eat the long grass), Sheep follow (they eat the residual grass down further and some of the different herbage available that cows don't like) then horses (they eat the forage that the other two do not like and don't have access to great quantities of green fodder that can cause founder). A few poultry in rotation were ok to have wandering around but large groups were not grazed in the same area until after the cows in particular due to the risk from poultry spreading salmonella to the cows and making them sick. Having the poultry last would ensure that the grass had time to regrow after being exposed to sunlight killing some of the salmonella off and therefore reducing the risk of zoonosis diseases that can kill cattle and humans. I hope this helps someone looking to run some stock, the old time farmers new some clever systems as they didn't have access to antibiotics to kill the salmonella bug off in their stock.
How much land is there? I have 6.5 acres with about 4 paddocks. 3sheep,2horses and 30 chooks. I’m currently learning and working out how to have rotating pasture with a small space
Do you ever use high stock density grazing with your cattle herd?
Is there any risk of increasing parasite loads or transmitting diseases when you allow different livestock species to graze & browse the same pasture?
Cheers Leigh and Toon.
From what I understand, it decreases parasite load in many cases. Like he was saying in the video, they stopped having tick problems when the chickens came in with the goats.
Bill Mollison said in his book something about certain animals not following chickens because they can get liver fluke. But I have since learned from Pat Coleby that sulphur and copper in the diet can assist with internal parasite management.
Sheep and cows are end species for parasites that affect the other, from what I understand. Move cows and then bring in the sheep. Cow parasites die in the sheep and vice versa. The rotation provides better forage and healthier critters. Don't let the cows graze too low or there might be problems. Greg Judy discusses a lot of this.
@@cletushatfield8817 Joel Salatin talks a lot about it too
@@nessav7258 That’s true, she talks about it in her book.
What's the best way to supply water to the cattle when you move them around the paddocks Geoff?
use a water though. just move them around or have many.
Does anyone have any authoritative science to show which grazing order is best to reduce disease and parasites?
How would you modify this if animal products were not processed, sold, or sought after - what if the animals were just there for fertility and nothing else? Is it just building soil for future forest or annual crops?
Question: How old is the bamboo?
What about alpacas though geoff
I'm curious if you can explain why people say not to keep chickens and goats together? And if the reasoning is actually true, please and thank you 🌷🌻🌷
I find it interesting that they have bamboo nearby. The chickens scratch it all up so the ability of bamboo so keep the ground clear does no harm here. - He also said the chickens make some interesting compost from bamboo bio mass).
It’s not just the matted leaves that keep weeds from growing it’s also the thick root structure that prevents other plants growing
Chicken added to the goats - no more ticks.
Great video. So there is no external feed required for the cows, but the chickens require grain/soy (that's just a guess, it wasn't apparent from the video)? How do you account for external inputs into the farm in terms of sustainability/impact? It's something I've always wondered.
The chickens will survive on plants and bugs alone. No need for grains.
@@herodotusofhalicarnasis2394 but they weren't in the video, Geoff fed them from the red container. That's what I was referring to.
@@ricos1497 I think he was trying to enticing the goats up with the fodder from the red bin
@@stevewest9327 that was exactly what he was attempting to do, get the goats to come up to him! So he reached into the red bin and grabbed some fodder
Where would pigs come into the cycle?? Not interested in horses, or sheep. For me it’s chickens, pigs, milk goats and maybe steer. Please advise…. 🙏
Pigs are very good for clearing overgrown ground. They root below the soil and manure the area too. Pigs are actually better than goats for clearing ground
I don’t understand the part about the horses and goats. If you just use cows and chickens don’t you get all the benefits? What do goats or horses bring to the table?
We have a wildlife park in town. With no animals. 🤔
Does anyone have an idea how to get rid of Forssk. - TRAILING INDIGO
It's invading the pasture where our two horses graze. It's toxic to them.
what do you think about holistic management with cows or other animals?
Because there you dont want the animals to eat all the gras. you want them to eat just the top and trample the rest of it down to feed and mulch the soil.
I think it would be very interesting to compare these methods.
I wonder about this too. I think that the size of the field and the herd reflect the difference. In Allan Savory's method, you use massive herds and manage them the way predators would. As I understand, he is talking about thousands of animals on hundreds of acres and they are not used year round. Each case is different, but the goal there is to return a land to productivity after it is has been reduced to desert, not necessarily for permaculture at smaller scale.
❤️
What do horses contribute in permaculture? Never thought of using them.
Manure
Beauty, transport (especially now with the price of fuel) leisure, fun, manure, ploughing paddocks, the list goes on.
i thought the point was to primarely step on the gras to build up soil and thing les about eating all, dont think we can really imagin and se what we always did actually is wrong.. listen more carfully to savory... also trees is good pasture food, maximise ground cover is was i think let recover.. but all animals together in one flok.., strip pature maximise how eficient they step
Funny thing. I grow inside, had a horse farm, with nothing but a few dogs and cat's, just to think If I known about this sooner.
I see bamboo in this video. Could you talk about how to use bamboo in permaculture?
One use he has for it is a wind break. Haven't heard him mention other uses.
The variety in the video is called Oldhamii. It is a clumping non spreading variety that is great for shade, screens, has edible shoots, can be used for building things.
@@rorymagnatheredking yes. I know it well. I had bambusa olhami in my back yard in Long Beach California. It made a great privacy screen between my back yard and the 3-story apartment building next door. In 5years it was 60 ft tall.
Shy chickens.
Don't take any water ???????there will be many folk who take that literally.