Hi Edgar, A very interesting comparison. I am assuming the violin set up is the same and it has been played regularly over the year. Perhaps it is my imagination that the 2023 sounds more rounded (there is maybe a more technical name) than when it was new. You may recognise me as I have a sister Linea Machi bought a few years ago. It is my best of two violins. While I am not a professional player I practice every day but give my two violins equal time because I love them both and love both sounds coming from them. So you might ask have I noticed a change and I have. Firstly I have spent a lot of time learning about the physics of string instruments, specifically violins, and your comment regarding dendrological changes are most likely. However, violins are constructed with a lot of parts which can loosen, move or change their movement when played. Or am I just increasingly demented and/or want to believe my playing is getting better. Having had a chance to trial 4 violins from Cremona at the recent Strings Centre in Sydney Cremona Violin Event there is much variation. The one violin you provided was highly praised by the violinist in the quartet who played it. And it sold as the most expensive, in my opinion a comment on its quality. Thanks for the video.
I've had my Edgar Russ violin for well over a year and I love it. The sound and resonance was great from the start, and even better now. Thank you, Edgar!
I think there are a combination of things that mature an instrument, but more than anything I think the key component is that it needs to be played, and loved with empathy.
the differences ? hard to say... the acoustic of the room, the microphone, its placement, the bow, even the equilization of the sound can have a certain impact. We can feel a tiny difference in volume. The 2023 for me as a warmer sound, more powerful, but also a bit less precision in high harmonics. The soul, the presence seems better. Better Mids and low freq, quite more round sound (?...)
Have heard intermediate to advance level violins made more than 20 years ago, during the 1990s. Now they really sound almost like (if not 100% like) Stradivarius violins!!! They really open up their sound gradually over the years.
The violinist who plays the instruments - she has something that just draws you in. I don't even know her and I just stop everything I'm doing to watch and listen to her playing.
I am still basically a beginner with violin, but in a strange sort of way: I got demotivated due to injury and illness and set down my violin 5 or 6 years ago and resumed practicing a little over a week ago. I have one of the cheapest violins made with the standard combination of maple, spruce, and ebony, and I was pleasantly surprised when I took it out of the case and started playing it again -- it seems to have somehow improved in its sound quality by just sitting there for 5 years, so the topic of instrument aging has been on the mind the last few days. I'm considering getting a new production one of the same model to compare (for science, of course), but I don't know what I'd do with it after making the comparison.
Thx so much! interesting! what a great player! What is her name? And what is the name of this wonderful music (video around 7:40?)? Is it from Joh. Sebatian Bach?
Hi. It's the Presto from Vivaldi's Four Seasons. And it is great! There are many nice recordings of it, but I'll recommend one which can be found right here on YT. Il Giardino Armonico channel name: atyafi03
Fascinating! I didn't expect such a difference after a year. I assume that the setup was similar across the two time points (e.g. soundpost position etc)? I guess the idea is that the biggest change in sound happens early on and then the amount of change diminishes as the years go by and the violin 'stabilises'?
Luthiers pay high prices for wood aged 2-3 decades to make master violins. Even Yamaha artificially age their wood to make their master level YVN500s range violins.
I believe the theory about wood and sap molecules changing for the better as time goes on. This of course, depends on whether it is being played or not. I also thank that some instruments can get worse…… This lady’s violin sounded better this year than last year, to me. More open, less nasally.
I am a scientist and have studied this extensively. The mechanism is not the age or the playing per se. It is the ability of the sound forming surfaces to move more easily in the proper places. This increases dynamic range and the amount of harmonic overtones hence the more rounded sound. Contrast this with a newly made instrument that produces more fundamental frequencies alone. It is also not the case to wait a long time for this to occur. It can bee accelerated by the correct methods. Many failed strategies include vibrating devices or placing an acoustic instrument in front of a loud speaker and play music. Both of these are bad strategies. The speaker will preferentially cause the air cavity to resonate at its Helmholtz frequency and create a large amplitude at that sound frequency. Wolf tones and other bad resonances can occur and even damage to the instrument by this route. The success is in the location of the sound producing surface and getting it to vibrate more freely. A holographic table and oscillator can show where this needs to be done. I am not trying to take over your post but PM me if you want my patent number and more details of my work.
The strings can change the sound. The bow can change the sound. Was it the same bow and same brand of strings? Some one said even a hair change on the bow can improve the sound.
This is going to be so interesting as we see instruments age with amazing mics and video, I also feel that even the player, or that same player in the past has an impact on it. I feel in the last example she was separating more intentionally with the bow, idk
Edgar, I love your videos. I have a serious question. I come from playing guitar to playing violin and my guitars have cutaways to access the higher notes easier. Why don't they do this with acoustic violins? Why not make it easier for the musician to access the highest notes?
I'll give one answer: guitar cutaways drastically effect tonal quality, especially of certain frequencies. You've maybe been told something different, but don't believe it. The violin back is of non-uniform thickness throughout, and often non symmetrical (L vs R) specifically to accentuate various tones in different parts of the wood.
it might be the string not the actual violin. the expensive violine such as stuff Edgar makes doesnt have D'addario $20 string. they usually use senthetic and over time the syntetic string shows different charactristics.
Just my $.02 worth, but I think you have to pay very close attention to your instrument. If it starts to sound muddy, or nasally, or shrill, maybe have it checked out. It may well need a sound post adjustment. Sometimes it just needs new strings.??
hi ssb, a friend of mine bought one for a guitar and killed it stone dead. I was astonished. It went from a scratchy new sound to full on dead as if the body had a duvet inside it. From what I gather, he left it on the instrument for a week or so. According to the instructions, there are variances of use to focus what changes you want to make, so perhaps he may have over used it. I was going to borrow it from him for a factory German violin I have which sounds very shrill, but having seen what happened to his guitar (he sold it!) I declined. I don't know if changes are permanent, but I would personally be VERY wary of using it on an expensive instrument.
скрипку продают после года или больше происходит перенапряжение в корпусе созревания усыхание после года такого процесса и игры инструмент разыгрывается происходит разрушение тканей дерева и инструмент звучит шире и громче -это если хорошый был инструмент .....сразу продовать скрипку нельзя
Perhaps my ears haven't yet been trained to make such a fine distinction, but honestly, it was very hard for me to hear a difference. It all sounded beautifully the same to me, whether it was last year or just a few days ago from when this comment was made.
These are such subtleties that's it's probably hard to hear over YT's highly compressed audio. I bet in person you could hear the differences much better!
Well then, I suppose my one counter-reply is, if it sounds beautifully the same in audio, there should be no disadvantage in creating a recording with either instrument. I'm sure there would only be a slight issue, if we're talking about a live performance.
@@achen5689 hmmm I don't know. Interesting thoughts. I could hear a difference, despite the curtailing of many upper register overtones via codec compression. Perhaps it was your listening device / speakers normalizing the violin's otherwise (subtly) contrasted audio?
Yes true ! Playing the instrument a ' master' made one will increase its power sound and quality , playing the instrument steadily is important also to improve the instrument with time 👍🎵🎶🎵
2023 sound is better but a bit desinc from picture. Maybe both got better, violin and player. 2023 sound like a different violin. More harmonics? A bit lower tone? I am not a sound professional so don`t taking too hard :)
Unless we have several violins tested before and after a few years, we really can’t make a statement in general - only that THIS violin appeared to sound better after a year. For all we really know, she just improved her playing. We’d need to eliminate compounding factors like the player or whether it was the playing, the age, or something else. The other interesting thing to test is if the perceived improvement is due to age or being played. If you had 15 violins made for instance, and set five away to just age for three years, five to be played for three years, and five to be played out of tune for three years, then we might have some useful data.
Hi Edgar,
A very interesting comparison. I am assuming the violin set up is the same and it has been played regularly over the year. Perhaps it is my imagination that the 2023 sounds more rounded (there is maybe a more technical name) than when it was new.
You may recognise me as I have a sister Linea Machi bought a few years ago. It is my best of two violins. While I am not a professional player I practice every day but give my two violins equal time because I love them both and love both sounds coming from them. So you might ask have I noticed a change and I have. Firstly I have spent a lot of time learning about the physics of string instruments, specifically violins, and your comment regarding dendrological changes are most likely. However, violins are constructed with a lot of parts which can loosen, move or change their movement when played. Or am I just increasingly demented and/or want to believe my playing is getting better.
Having had a chance to trial 4 violins from Cremona at the recent Strings Centre in Sydney Cremona Violin Event there is much variation. The one violin you provided was highly praised by the violinist in the quartet who played it. And it sold as the most expensive, in my opinion a comment on its quality.
Thanks for the video.
Thanks Dennis for sharing your experience!
Looking forward to meet you in Australia. Maybe already in 2024!
👋🏼
It would be great to see you.
I've had my Edgar Russ violin for well over a year and I love it. The sound and resonance was great from the start, and even better now. Thank you, Edgar!
You are so lucky
I think there are a combination of things that mature an instrument, but more than anything I think the key component is that it needs to be played, and loved with empathy.
The vibrato is changing by the years 😉
the differences ? hard to say... the acoustic of the room, the microphone, its placement, the bow, even the equilization of the sound can have a certain impact. We can feel a tiny difference in volume. The 2023 for me as a warmer sound, more powerful, but also a bit less precision in high harmonics. The soul, the presence seems better. Better Mids and low freq, quite more round sound (?...)
Have heard intermediate to advance level violins made more than 20 years ago, during the 1990s. Now they really sound almost like (if not 100% like) Stradivarius violins!!! They really open up their sound gradually over the years.
That violin sounds awesome.
I wish I could play as well as Lena Yokoyama
I think the strings of 2023 are just more focussed. It sounded like 2022 were for example Dominats and 2023 Larsen Virtuoso.
The violinist who plays the instruments - she has something that just draws you in. I don't even know her and I just stop everything I'm doing to watch and listen to her playing.
I am still basically a beginner with violin, but in a strange sort of way: I got demotivated due to injury and illness and set down my violin 5 or 6 years ago and resumed practicing a little over a week ago. I have one of the cheapest violins made with the standard combination of maple, spruce, and ebony, and I was pleasantly surprised when I took it out of the case and started playing it again -- it seems to have somehow improved in its sound quality by just sitting there for 5 years, so the topic of instrument aging has been on the mind the last few days. I'm considering getting a new production one of the same model to compare (for science, of course), but I don't know what I'd do with it after making the comparison.
Remarkable change, improved sound
Sounds great both times.
sounds beautiful both times but more full now.
This such an interesting topic , absolutely wonderful to hear the opinion of a master on the this matter to dispel myths.
Thank you!
All the best from Cremona!
all i can really tell you for sure is that young lady can play .
I agree!
Pretty too 😄
Thx so much! interesting! what a great player! What is her name? And what is the name of this wonderful music (video around 7:40?)? Is it from Joh. Sebatian Bach?
Hi. It's the Presto from Vivaldi's Four Seasons. And it is great! There are many nice recordings of it, but I'll recommend one which can be found right here on YT.
Il Giardino Armonico
channel name: atyafi03
Fascinating! I didn't expect such a difference after a year. I assume that the setup was similar across the two time points (e.g. soundpost position etc)?
I guess the idea is that the biggest change in sound happens early on and then the amount of change diminishes as the years go by and the violin 'stabilises'?
The "Subscribed" button did a rainbow thing at 4:24. First time I've seen that. Is that a new feature you can enable when uploading?
Luthiers pay high prices for wood aged 2-3 decades to make master violins. Even Yamaha artificially age their wood to make their master level YVN500s range violins.
I believe the theory about wood and sap molecules changing for the better as time goes on. This of course, depends on whether it is being played or not. I also thank that some instruments can get worse……
This lady’s violin sounded better this year than last year, to me. More open, less nasally.
👌🏼💃🏻
I am a scientist and have studied this extensively. The mechanism is not the age or the playing per se. It is the ability of the sound forming surfaces to move more easily in the proper places. This increases dynamic range and the amount of harmonic overtones hence the more rounded sound. Contrast this with a newly made instrument that produces more fundamental frequencies alone.
It is also not the case to wait a long time for this to occur. It can bee accelerated by the correct methods. Many failed strategies include vibrating devices or placing an acoustic instrument in front of a loud speaker and play music. Both of these are bad strategies. The speaker will preferentially cause the air cavity to resonate at its Helmholtz frequency and create a large amplitude at that sound frequency. Wolf tones and other bad resonances can occur and even damage to the instrument by this route.
The success is in the location of the sound producing surface and getting it to vibrate more freely. A holographic table and oscillator can show where this needs to be done. I am not trying to take over your post but PM me if you want my patent number and more details of my work.
Fascinating stuff. This subject is of great interest to me. I would love to have your patent number. Not sure how to PM you tho!
The strings can change the sound. The bow can change the sound. Was it the same bow and same brand of strings? Some one said even a hair change on the bow can improve the sound.
This is going to be so interesting as we see instruments age with amazing mics and video, I also feel that even the player, or that same player in the past has an impact on it. I feel in the last example she was separating more intentionally with the bow, idk
Tha answer is time vs oxigenation + vibration in this matters refers to use.
Edgar, I love your videos. I have a serious question. I come from playing guitar to playing violin and my guitars have cutaways to access the higher notes easier. Why don't they do this with acoustic violins? Why not make it easier for the musician to access the highest notes?
I'll give one answer: guitar cutaways drastically effect tonal quality, especially of certain frequencies. You've maybe been told something different, but don't believe it.
The violin back is of non-uniform thickness throughout, and often non symmetrical (L vs R) specifically to accentuate various tones in different parts of the wood.
Strings on the violin of both years seems to be same, Peter Infeld, so that factor is consistent.
The first recording are the violins further away? It could be the latest recording the microphones are much closer?
was the same bow used in both recordings?
it might be the string not the actual violin. the expensive violine such as stuff Edgar makes doesnt have D'addario $20 string. they usually use senthetic and over time the syntetic string shows different charactristics.
What's the price of the violin played on December 2023? Please let me know.
i was wondering how often should you go to the luthier and have the soundpost reposition ?
Just my $.02 worth, but I think you have to pay very close attention to your instrument. If it starts to sound muddy, or nasally, or shrill, maybe have it checked out. It may well need a sound post adjustment. Sometimes it just needs new strings.??
Well that’s of course a good point! The earlier the better when something isn’t the way it should be!
Nicky! Very well said!
the sound is fine !! it's just that i don't have the same crisp sound that i got when i bought my violin
Hi Edgar, very interesting video, thank you. What do you think of using the ToneRite device for reducing the play-in time for a violin?
hi ssb, a friend of mine bought one for a guitar and killed it stone dead. I was astonished. It went from a scratchy new sound to full on dead as if the body had a duvet inside it. From what I gather, he left it on the instrument for a week or so. According to the instructions, there are variances of use to focus what changes you want to make, so perhaps he may have over used it. I was going to borrow it from him for a factory German violin I have which sounds very shrill, but having seen what happened to his guitar (he sold it!) I declined. I don't know if changes are permanent, but I would personally be VERY wary of using it on an expensive instrument.
скрипку продают после года или больше происходит перенапряжение в корпусе созревания усыхание после года такого процесса и игры инструмент разыгрывается происходит разрушение тканей дерева и инструмент звучит шире и громче -это если хорошый был инструмент .....сразу продовать скрипку нельзя
Perhaps my ears haven't yet been trained to make such a fine distinction, but honestly, it was very hard for me to hear a difference. It all sounded beautifully the same to me, whether it was last year or just a few days ago from when this comment was made.
These are such subtleties that's it's probably hard to hear over YT's highly compressed audio.
I bet in person you could hear the differences much better!
Well then, I suppose my one counter-reply is, if it sounds beautifully the same in audio, there should be no disadvantage in creating a recording with either instrument. I'm sure there would only be a slight issue, if we're talking about a live performance.
@@achen5689 hmmm I don't know. Interesting thoughts. I could hear a difference, despite the curtailing of many upper register overtones via codec compression. Perhaps it was your listening device / speakers normalizing the violin's otherwise (subtly) contrasted audio?
There's a certain warmth, better resonance and sustain to aged Violin, all the more better tonal quality.
Yes true !
Playing the instrument a ' master' made one will increase its power sound and quality , playing the instrument steadily is important also to improve the instrument with time 👍🎵🎶🎵
Do you guys play at around 430-435Hz?
I was about to ask the same question it sounded very flat compared to 442 we use in Canada
I use 441-442 as well, and I'm also in Canada 😉
@@judeh101 we sometimes have to plsy 440 or 441 as well but other than that it would 415 if you play in a baroque ensemble.
Rooms are different. Accustics make a difference.
ALso her playing would of improved as well being one more year experienced which would also affect the sound.
How time affects...(with the s)
2023 sound is better but a bit desinc from picture. Maybe both got better, violin and player. 2023 sound like a different violin. More harmonics? A bit lower tone? I am not a sound professional so don`t taking too hard :)
Unless we have several violins tested before and after a few years, we really can’t make a statement in general - only that THIS violin appeared to sound better after a year. For all we really know, she just improved her playing. We’d need to eliminate compounding factors like the player or whether it was the playing, the age, or something else. The other interesting thing to test is if the perceived improvement is due to age or being played. If you had 15 violins made for instance, and set five away to just age for three years, five to be played for three years, and five to be played out of tune for three years, then we might have some useful data.
LOL Humans love to create myths and legends, that's how we are.
My 1983 martin
Sounds better..
The smell is almost gone
I think the violin player should play much slower, so we can appreciate the changes